[krishmunn]

[quote=velagale;3377422]I guess the moderator or someone deletes this post as it is getting unrelated to the thread.

2) Automation scripts : Some stuff in some cases yes. For eg: Load test scripts and some UI testing scripts. but if yours is heavy on UI, you would still need manual testing.

Good test engineers write backend automation scripts too --- in many cases using even non-conventional things like shell scripts.

3) Bad testers are worse but not as worse as bad coders. for eg: Even after 100% QA testing, there will be bugs at customer sites ! and i have seen developers taking the blame, because the way it works is, "Hey you coded it !".

If the developer is blamed than you do not have a Agile process . You are faking Agile. In agile, the team fails NOT individual. Also, if after 100% QA there are bugs (at least critical ones) , the QA engineer is not good.

4) Testing has limited scope. Developers "create" stuff, hence the creativity.

Developer often leaves things out . That is why QA is required. So the "create" stuff is not so "creative"

5) yes, we do scrums and TDD. But i am surprised, do your QA folks write Junit test cases at your company ? Because Identifying use cases from project requirements/User stories/tasks, Architecting/designing of various modules, creating Class models within those modules by identifying object relationships (choosing the appropriate design patterns) , coding the classes and unit testing, static analysis and code coverage of those unit tests is all done by Developers.

So what does your QA folks do ? Nothing ? If Developers have identified ALL use cases correctly, designed correctly, completed testing , why do you even need a QA. Just for UI testing ? And I guess just like smuggymba you will say that even for that Developers provide the test cases and QA just executes those ? Fox guarding hens house .

From your description it appears that even Business Analysts are also just fluff. Developer can do all work.

I now understand why you have no clue on QA.

6) Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, facebook, twitter and even the latest Instagram (for its stupid 1 billion dollar acquisition) were all started by hard-code coders ... Venture capitalists/Angel investors enter the picture later!. Have you heard about YCombinator ? Anyways, looks like you dont have a clue about startups in Silicon valley.

Excellent point. Microsoft --- Bill Gates was a college drop out. So, coders NEED NOT be Bachelors holders and never qualify for EB2 . So than those NOT holding degree (EB3) should have first prefernce for GC.

Google -- Sergei Brin -- a refugee . So your argument should be Refugees should get GC before you .

Are you with me?

The point I am trying to make is --- they are NOT coders. They are entreprenuers .

7) Thats what i am saying. Trying to equate Development and testing just because they happen to be under the umbrella of "software" is incorrect and in some ways insulting !
There is a difference between an artist and a critic.

Can't agree more. Trying to equate an entrepreuner like Bill Gates with 356789th Java developer is insulting ! And trying to portray a run of the mill java developer as an "artist" and "Creative" person is hillarious !

I run a small team of around 25 members and I have found Quality Engineers to be equally , if not more, valuable to developers.


Coming back to the topic -- If you know about any fraud with EB1/2/3/4/5, report it ; if you do not know and you just *think* someone is abusing it, stop whining.

Do you think the clients are fool to pay $$ per hour to get a H1 contractor for Testing ? What is Infosys' incentive to pay a person, move him to US, get him a EB1 Green Card ? Sure you are not saying that like Desi Consulting companies, Infosys is taking H1 filing cost , GC cost etc plus some additional from the Employee !





BTW, one small question --- with such great, creative Java developer like you why have you not been able to develop a bullet proof UI testing tool and put all those "testers" out of job ? What happened to your "creativity " ???