Respond to antis @ IV related article on Detroit Free Press

[walking_dude]

It's a reprint of the story featured in a North Carolina newspaper. Kudos to IV members spreading IV message across US, MI included


http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071123/NEWS07/711230422/1009

As usual anti-Immigrants are at their favourite pastime of planting false figures and information to defame EB immigrants. I've responded to them using real facts and figures.

It's very important we do not leave these discussions to be one-sided show run by antis. If we are concerned about rise in bigotry in US society, it's time we countered these sensationalists (so-called 'populists') with real facts and figures.

http://forums.freep.com/viewtopic.php?t=63334

[gc_bulgaria]

It's a reprint of the story featured in a North Carolina newspaper. Kudos to IV members spreading IV message across US, MI included


http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071123/NEWS07/711230422/1009

As usual anti-Immigrants are at their favourite pastime of planting false figures and information to defame EB immigrants. I've responded to them using real facts and figures.

It's very important we do not leave these discussions to be one-sided show run by antis. If we are concerned about rise in bigotry in US society, it's time we countered these sensationalists (so-called 'populists') with real facts and figures.

http://forums.freep.com/viewtopic.php?t=63334

Great rebuttals!
:D

[Kumbakonam]

Excellent answers, WD, and I red them at least 10 times, again and again.:)

Regards,
K

[swamy]

well done

[eb3_nepa]

well done

Excellent responses. Shut those ppl RIGHT up. One suggestion. People here call Mathematics as Math and not MathS.

[singhsa3]

Simple math:
If ignoring extension beyond 6 years and assuming none of the people got their green cards then given that
H-1B is valid for 6 years
Each year quota is 65K
Then there should be 65x6= 390K H-1Bs in the pipeline, No where close to 1 Million or 600 k
It's a reprint of the story featured in a North Carolina newspaper. Kudos to IV members spreading IV message across US, MI included


http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071123/NEWS07/711230422/1009

As usual anti-Immigrants are at their favourite pastime of planting false figures and information to defame EB immigrants. I've responded to them using real facts and figures.

It's very important we do not leave these discussions to be one-sided show run by antis. If we are concerned about rise in bigotry in US society, it's time we countered these sensationalists (so-called 'populists') with real facts and figures.

http://forums.freep.com/viewtopic.php?t=63334

[walking_dude]

Thanks guys. Special thanks to 'AngelOfLight' - if that came from an IV member.

Let's post more comments to represent our side of the story.

[Green.Tech]

Excellent work, walking dude!

[lazycis]

Thanks guys. Special thanks to 'AngelOfLight' - if that came from an IV member.

Let's post more comments to represent our side of the story.

You are welcome, dude :)

[Macaca]

The number of approved petitions exceeds the number of individual H-1B workers because more than one U.S. employer may file a petition on behalf of an individual H-1B worker (multiple petitions).

[Macaca]

(1) One myth dogging the immigration debate is that employers are fibbing (or grossly exaggerating) when they claim that hiring foreign professionals is unavoidable because U.S.-born Ph.D.s are hard to come by. But a new report on doctorates from U.S. universities shows they're telling the truth, and then some.

(2) Immigration opponents still claim that the likes of Intel and Oracle merely want to hire Chinese engineers on the cheap. In fact, U.S. law already prohibits companies from paying these foreign nationals less than natives. And all other things being equal, the American job applicant has an advantage because employers are required to pay an additional $4,000-$6,000 in taxes and fees on every H-1B visa holder they hire.

(3) Economic protectionists oppose lifting the visa cap to meet demand. But it makes little sense for our universities to be educating these talented foreign students, only to send them packing after graduation. Current policies have MIT and Stanford educating the next generation of innovators -- and then deporting them to create wealth elsewhere.

Closing the door to foreign professionals puts U.S. companies at a competitive disadvantage and pushes jobs out of the country. Worse, it does so at a time when other nations are rolling out the welcome mat. Earlier this year Microsoft, which is the third-largest sponsor of H-1B visas, announced plans to open a new software development center near Vancouver. The decision to locate the facility in Canada was based in part on the fact that it doesn't have access to enough foreign workers state-side.

"We currently do 85% of our development work in the U.S., and we'd like to continue doing that," says Jack Krumholtz, the company's director of government affairs. "But if we can't hire the developers we need, . . . we're going to have to look to other options to get the work done." Meanwhile, the European Union recently introduced its own new temporary work visa that's designed to reduce red tape and waiting periods for foreign professionals.

If the U.S. spurns this human capital, it will find a home somewhere else. And that will be America's loss.

-- American Brain Drain, The Wall Street Journal, November 30, 2007
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119638963734709017.html

[walking_dude]

Done. Posted your second one, Macaca. I don't think antis have enough IQ to understand your first one :D

[Macaca]

I don't think antis have enough IQ to understand your first one :D

Post it. There are neutral persons reading it also. They don't know the truth!

Don't get scared. I have to go right now!

[grupak]

going WD. That news article is making positive impact here in NC.

[Macaca]

From Spotlight on Legal Immigration to the United States (http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?id=651) By Gretchen Reinemeyer and Jeanne Batalova | Migration Policy Institute, November 2007

During 2006, nearly 1.3 million people were granted lawful permanent resident status.

There were 1,266,264 immigrants who were granted legal residence in 2006. Of those, 447,016 (35.3 percent) were new arrivals who entered the country in 2006, and 819,248 (64.7 percent) were status adjusters. The status adjusters arrived in the United States in any year before 2006, but their applications were approved during 2006.


Employment-preference immigrants accounted for nearly 13 percent of all lawful permanent immigration in 2006.
The 159,081 immigrants who received green cards through sponsorship from their US employers accounted for 12.6 percent of all LPRs.

The share of employment-preference immigrants is significantly smaller than that of family-based immigrants and has varied between 3.3 percent (59,525) in 1991 and 22 percent (246,878) in 2005 (see Figure 2).

However, 87,702 (or 55.1 percent) of the employment-sponsored immigrants in 2006 were spouses and children of principal applicants.

Most (> 95%) H-1Bs have BS degree!

[walking_dude]

Special thanks to NC leaders for leading this great effort :)

going WD. That news article is making positive impact here in NC.

[Macaca]

(1) A farmer who grows a prized crop of vegetables would be annoyed by neighbors stopping by his field to pick off the finest specimens.

Yet that's what happens every year for the US and other nations that lack specific immigration policies, designed to attract the most talented or needed workers. US universities, renowned for producing top researchers, scientists and economists, welcome talented students from around the globe. However, thanks to an inefficient and antiquated visa policy, foreign students contribute fewer long-term benefits for the US economy. Missing out on tapping a major gain from globalization, the US loses many talented individuals who leave the US enlightened but embittered by their experience.

(2) More than 560,000 students came from around the world to study at US colleges in 2006, reports the Institute of International Education.

With the US setting an annual cap at 65,000 H-1B visas, only a fraction of the students get to stay for work.

(3) US immigration policy can't ignore the increasing international enrollment in US universities, especially in the sciences and math. Otherwise there could be unintended consequences. For example, education programs could follow the students. The Council of Graduate Schools reports that 29 percent of US American graduate schools overall now participate in collaborative-degree arrangements with non-US universities and 25 percent plan to establish similar programs. Top science, math and research centers of US universities could eventually relocate and flourish offshore.

-- From "US Immigration Policy Fritters Away Higher-Education Benefits" By Hassan Siddiq and Susan Froetschel | YaleGlobal, 31 October 2007
-> http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=9907

[Macaca]

(1) Since 2000, however, the contributions of Chinese scientists have leveled off, while Indian contributions showed a slight decline. This may be raising a red flag about America's capability to innovate in the future.

Says Kerr: "The magnitude of these ethnic contributions raises many research and policy questions on issues such as the appropriate quota for H1-B temporary visas, the possible crowding out of native students from the science and engineering fields, the brain-drain or brain-circulation effect on sending countries, and the future prospects for U.S. technology leadership."

(2) Your data shows the ethnic composition of U.S. scientists and engineers undergoing a significant transformation, with contributions of Chinese and Indian scientists to U.S. technology formation leveling off after 2000 and, in the case of India, declining. What accounts for this trend, and what are the potential ramifications for U.S. technology formation in the future?

A: Explaining these trends and their long-term implications will be a central theme of my future research. A couple of factors are likely to play important roles in the post-2000 leveling off.

The first is recent U.S. immigration restrictions following 9/11 and the reduction in the number of H1-B visas available for temporary, high-skilled workers. Second, both India and China have become more attractive places for technology development and entrepreneurship, leading to less initial migration to the United States and greater return migration.

-- From "The Changing Face of American Innovation: Q&A with: William R. Kerr" By Sarah Jane Gilbert | Harvard Business School Working Knowledge, November 5, 2007
-> http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/5799.html

[logiclife]

Here is how the Antis do the math.

Each H1 is a new person for them.

When a person first comes here on H1, that counts as 1 H1. Then, when he applies for renewal after 3 years, that's another H1. (H1 is never granted for more than 3 years at a time).

Then, when a person changes job and transfers to another employer within the 3 year person, that counts as 1 H1.

So if someone has been here in USA, who came here in 1999, doesnt have greencard yet, and has never changed employer, then that person would have renewed H1 atleast 3 times. That counts as 3 H1s in Lou Dobbs mathematics. Even though its one person.

The number is individuals is a lot less than number of H1s issued, because in 6 year period, each person would need 2 H1 petitions (one for original, one for extension) at a minimum.

There is an entire cottage industry in Washington DC that is dedicated to fudging the numbers, creating neat PDF reports and influencing congress with fudged numbers. CIS, NumbersUSA etc are some of them.

Based on what you believe, you can find hundreds of such orgs that are non-profit, for-profit, etc within 5 mile radius of Congressional offices. Their job is to raise funds and generate reports that fit the ideology of the one who finances their policy paper.

I can go and write a check of $10,000 to one org and $10,000 to another org and ask each of them to do entirely opposite things. Each of them will come up with irrefutable evidence - One saying H1B and EB greencards are great, the other saying the opposite. The conclusion of such policy studies depends on the direction from which the checks are coming.

And then, people like Lou Dobbs will pick and choose the one that fits their thinking and the thinking of its audience. Its not just immigration, all policies are fudged in math like that. Social security is in crisis. Social security is not in crisis. Medicare is in crisis. Medicare is not in crisis. Immigrants add to US economy. Immigrants are destroying/invading/killing/annihilating America.

The 5 mile radius around congress is like a Walmart of policy papers and studies. You can find things for everyone. Pro-immigration, anti-immigration, pro free trade, anti free trade, pro taxes, anti taxes, pro abortion, anti abortion, pro univeral health care, anti universal health care. And if a readymade report is not available, you can always get one tailor made with few thousand dollars. Its pathetic really.

However, my question to all native born American job seekers and their employers and their elected representatives is :

If we immigrants are so bad for you, when why do you still have 65,000 new skilled immigrants coming in each year, and why do you still have programs that plan to give our 140,000 green cards to those who choose to stay here beyond the 6-year temporary term? Why dont you just end the programs so that we can go back to our countries and be on the receiving end of outsourcing?

And what were all you guys doing when most industrialized nations were pushing for globalization, free-trade, WTO etc ? If you wanted protectionism and mercantilism, when why didnt you oppose WTO like the people of Seattle did? Why didnt you listen to Ross Perot in the 1990s? Heck, as late as 2000, you had a choice of electing a protectionist, anti-free-trade President, Patrick Buchanan. What were you guys doing voting for Bush and Gore. Should have voted for Buchanan back then, none of this nonsense would have bothered you. No free trade, hence no outsourcing. Plus the added benefit of getting a bonafide anti-immigrant like Pat Buchanan.

And if you are having a buyer's remorse after having bought into free-trade - that is now promoting outsourcing of jobs and competition for jobs from foreign nationals - then how is it the fault of immigrants?

[walking_dude]

Thanks Macaca for those links.

Someone please come forward and continue the task of posting articles + links given by Macaca. I don't want to be the only one posting inordinate number of comments ! Careful with links - IV has a way of garbling them if they happen to be long !

[walking_dude]

LogicLife,

I intend to post an extract of your post, with edits of course :)

[priderock]

Good job WD. The three steps are a kicker :)......learn math :):)

[wa_Saiprasad]

WD and MECCA you guys are kicking their ______ well. Keep up the great work.

[needhelp!]

Thanks for the work in responding to each and every one of their baseless comments.

[iptel]

I admire your eloquence.

[gc67890]

Well analyzed replies

[cagedcactus]

Bravo guys.... Bravo......

What an excellent job. I printed all the posts and gave my american co workers some read time..... :D
I think we educated a lot of people today.....

Many many thanks to our leaders here and specially to WD.
I am proud to say that I belong to same group as WD.....

[abhijitp]

You rock, WalkingDude and Macaca!

(I just did my bit there...)

[santb1975]

I am proud of being part of this group

[kumar_77]

Hello,

If no H1B's and Green Cards , why give Student visas in hundreds of thousands ......Is it " BECAUSE THEY PAY 200% TUITION " :mad:

YES NORMALLY INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS PAY 200% TUITION ...

[chanduv23]

Hello,

If no H1B's and Green Cards , why give Student visas in hundreds of thousands ......Is it " BECAUSE THEY PAY 200% TUITION " :mad:

YES NORMALLY INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS PAY 200% TUITION ...

Thats how it is everywhere. Immigration is a business. Countries like Canada, UK, Australia make you pay 300% fee for foreign students. These countries attract immigrants but have no opportunities and highly skilled immigrants end up bringing in revenue to the country and doing low skilled jobs.

US is the only country that promises opportunities. But now with this broken system even US is becoming like those countries.

[Macaca]

This article has the following anti H-1B remark

Groups such as the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies, which pushes for stricter limits on immigration, say it is a myth that the United States does not produce enough engineers and high-tech workers. They say companies recruit foreign workers to drive down wages.

Mark Krikorian, the group's director, said companies dangle the hope of permanent residency as a recruitment tool, even though they know there aren't enough green cards available.

"We need to stop stringing them along and say, 'Your time's up. You've got to leave,' " Krikorian said

The attached blog is the place to rebut this G A R B A G E. Like this (http://forums.freep.com/viewtopic.php?t=63334&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15)!