Dream Act [Archive] - Immigration Voice

go_guy123

07-20-2010, 12:43 PM

First of all, dream act should include children of legal immigrant too. The current act is exclusively for children of undocumented immigrants.

The rule is tailor made for undocumented children. As of now they can study till 12th standard in Public school free but they hit roadblock after school (in college). Suddenly the university system is not free and they cant enter at resident tuition rates or get any grants etc. Moreover they are now hitting the wall (that even F1 students face who follow the rules): after graduation how to work in US.

Funny part is :

F1 people after finishing have to go for OPT find a "willing" employer ...H1B/EB pain
And for undocumeted....after Bachelors...straight to green card...and bonus...they get to pay resident tuition fees as well during their study.

This is nothing but putting illegals ahead of legals.

eastindia

07-20-2010, 12:50 PM

smuggymba

07-20-2010, 12:51 PM

The rule is tailor made for undocumented children. As of now they can study till 12th standard in Public school free but they hit roadblock after school (in college). Suddenly the university system is not free and they cant enter at resident tuition rates or get any grants etc. Moreover they are now hitting the wall (that even F1 students face who follow the rules): after graduation how to work in US.

Funny part is :

F1 people after finishing have to go for OPT find a "willing" employer ...H1B/EB pain
And for undocumeted....after Bachelors...straight to green card...and bonus...they get to pay resident tuition fees as well during their study.

This is nothing but putting illegals ahead of legals.

Politics, Politics....same everywhere.

go_guy123

07-20-2010, 12:55 PM

Did you even read what Dream act is?

Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act (The "DREAM Act")

It is for minors.

Now if you want it changed for Legal EB2 and EB3 people in it, then go and meet Sen. Durbin and ask him to include. Tell him EB 2 and EB3 backlog is more important than children of undocumented.

Give him stories of how EB2 and EB3 children cannot travel , attend colleges and always live in fear and cannot even return to their own country. Unless the story of EB2 and EB3 kids is stronger than the kids of undocumented, you can never convince any lawmaker.

I do not think we will have stronger stories compared to stories of undocumented kid's stories. Go to their websites and you will find many. How many You Tube videos have EB2 and EB3 kids have made. I doubt if there are you tube videos of even 50 EB2 and EB3 backlogged people telling their problems. But you will find so many websites and stories of kids of undocumented.

But...where Dream act hits the roadblock is....

Currently when US citizens from others state join a school they need to pay non-resident tuition for 1 year (like in U of california system) and then pay resident tuition from 2nd year.

Dream act pretty much makes undocumented of a state ahead of the US citizens/GC from
other state and this what is hard to justify and can be challenged. Thats is why they
want to make the illeagals...GC holders.

Rajeev

07-20-2010, 01:01 PM

But...where Dream act hits the roadblock is....

Currently when US citizens from others state join a school they need to pay non-resident tuition for 1 year (like in U of california system) and then pay resident tuition from 2nd year.

Dream act pretty much makes undocumented of a state ahead of the US citizens/GC from
other state and this what is hard to justify and can be challenged. Thats is why they
want to make the illeagals...GC holders.

Moreover children of undocumented immigrant will get green card just by completing three years in college. This should be extended for children of legal immigrants.

go_guy123

07-20-2010, 01:23 PM

Moreover children of undocumented immigrant will get green card just by completing three years in college. This should be extended for children of legal immigrants.

Why just children of legal (they are typically very young)...why not F1 visa holders...their only crime is they joined after 12th ? they should have "gate crashed in" before 12th class itself.

go_guy123

07-20-2010, 01:31 PM

Politics, Politics....same everywhere.

Check out the lobby of the illegals. It is so massive

Even UC Berkeley is touting dream act while allowing its legal F1s to be shafted. Basically they give a damn about the plight of the legals.

University Presidents Call for Stand-Alone Passage of Dream Act - The Ticker - The Chronicle of Higher Education (http://chronicle.com/blogPost/University-Presidents-Call-for/25671/)

India_USA

09-20-2010, 09:04 AM

They are powerful and loaded with money..........yet they have been unable to get CIR for discussion. The economy is so bad that pushing for any agenda that is not related to improving the economy of the 'Americans' is seen as not good.

Rajeev

09-20-2010, 09:46 AM

Contacted staff members of Senator Reid, Senator Menendez, and Senator Lautenberg asking them to include children of legal Immigrants in the act.

smuggymba

09-20-2010, 09:59 AM

Contacted staff members of Senator Reid, Senator Menendez, and Senator Lautenberg asking them to include children of legal Immigrants in the act.

I emailed pres Obama, whitehouse and asked them for:
removing country limit
Visa recap
do not count dependents

this is my third email, I'm sure they won't even read it.

blacktongue

09-20-2010, 09:59 AM

Contacted staff members of Senator Reid, Senator Menendez, and Senator Lautenberg asking them to include children of legal Immigrants in the act.

One way to oppose Dream act is to call everyone opposing it to use 'not including legal kids' as an argument to derail this bill. Then contact all reporters that are writing against this bill and tell them that legal kids are not included. You will need to play anti-immigrant for a change.

Rajeev

09-20-2010, 10:12 AM

smuggymba

09-20-2010, 10:19 AM

We are not against Dream Act. In fact I first sentence to all staff members is 'I support Dream act but would like to include children of legal immigrant in the bill'. When a staff member is counting supportors of Dream Act, they will count us too.

It can work either way, you won't know. sometimes opposing something gets you something....Legals are literally being held hostages by illegals because they won't let a CIR pass without illegals being benefited.......and you support DREAM act so it might work but more chances are that it won't and it will pass with just illegals.

sareesh

09-20-2010, 10:25 AM

Hi Smuggymba, keep contacting. One day they will read it. Don't give up.
SG.
I emailed pres Obama, whitehouse and asked them for:
removing country limit
Visa recap
do not count dependents

this is my third email, I'm sure they won't even read it.

Rajeev

09-20-2010, 10:29 AM

There is no harm is trying. My wife called Senator Menendez office today and was told that the Senator will extend Dream act to children of all immigrants - undocumented and legal.

smuggymba

09-20-2010, 10:36 AM

There is no harm is trying. My wife called Senator Menendez office today and was told that the Senator will extend Dream act to children of all immigrants - undocumented and legal.

WOW. That's great if it happens. do we what other things Sen Menendez has in this CIR bill?

greyhair

09-20-2010, 10:40 AM

Contacted staff members of Senator Reid, Senator Menendez, and Senator Lautenberg asking them to include children of legal Immigrants in the act.

Rajeev,

Thanks for the initiative for helping our children. DREAM Act has been in works for 10 years. It never gave any relief to children of legal immigrants. Do you really believe that at the 11th hour, a day before vote on the Senate floor, they will include relief for legal immigrants? You suggestion is 100% genuine. But in last 10 years at some point the powers to be must have discussed including children of legal immigrants. Apparently, that idea could have been rejected. I am not saying that we should give up, I'm just thinking how things may have happened.

Nothing to worry. The news articles are saying that Dream act will not pass. They need 60 votes. No one in GOP wants to hand over any victory to the Democrats just before the election. Plus some of the democrats like Senator Ben Nelson of NE will oppose Dream Act. It won't pass.

h1-b forever

09-20-2010, 11:31 AM

There is no harm is trying. My wife called Senator Menendez office today and was told that the Senator will extend Dream act to children of all immigrants - undocumented and legal.

I am reading the text and summary of the senate bill - S. 729 - and cannot see any mention of extending the same to the children of legal immigrants. You are making a headway with Sen. Menendez's office - can you please ask them to point out the language which shows the inclusion of the children of legal immigrants in the bill and also have them give it to you in writing that they support the inclusion of children of legal immigrants.

If they are not ready to give it in writing to you, then they are only saying to get you off their backs...

Time is running out on this, better find out the language in the bill and get it in writing from the senator's office.

deepimpact

09-20-2010, 11:32 AM

Rajeev,

Thanks for the initiative for helping our children. DREAM Act has been in works for 10 years. It never gave any relief to children of legal immigrants. Do you really believe that at the 11th hour, a day before vote on the Senate floor, they will include relief for legal immigrants? You suggestion is 100% genuine. But in last 10 years at some point the powers to be must have discussed including children of legal immigrants. Apparently, that idea could have been rejected. I am not saying that we should give up, I'm just thinking how things may have happened.

Nothing to worry. The news articles are saying that Dream act will not pass. They need 60 votes. No one in GOP wants to hand over any victory to the Democrats just before the election. Plus some of the democrats like Senator Ben Nelson of NE will oppose Dream Act. It won't pass.

The addition of DREAM Act to the Defense Bill is a political ploy by Dems to get as many Hispanic Votes as possible. It is kind of like a win win situation for them .
If the Dream Act passes, then well and good. But even if it doesn't pass, Dems will blame the Republicans for that.

Rajeev

09-20-2010, 01:42 PM

I am reading the text and summary of the senate bill - S. 729 - and cannot see any mention of extending the same to the children of legal immigrants. You are making a headway with Sen. Menendez's office - can you please ask them to point out the language which shows the inclusion of the children of legal immigrants in the bill and also have them give it to you in writing that they support the inclusion of children of legal immigrants.

If they are not ready to give it in writing to you, then they are only saying to get you off their backs...

Time is running out on this, better find out the language in the bill and get it in writing from the senator's office.

I am doing my part. Please call Senator Reid and Senators from your state.

new_horizon

09-20-2010, 04:37 PM

I just heard on the news Sen Reid has the 60 votes. since it's attached to the defense bill, it looks like it has made it possible for him to get the required votes. It's very urgent to get the legal kids also included in the dream act provisions right now. Sen Reid will do anything to get re-elected. Sadly the legals gets ignored as always. If it was this easy to get the dream act prov. introduced and passed in haste...the CIR was also possible if the dems really wanted to help the immigrants.

greyhair

09-20-2010, 05:39 PM

Sen Reid will do anything to get re-elected.

Yes. You are sure Sharon Angle will no do anything to get elected? This is part of politics and election. This is not a beauty contest. Why blame just Reid?

Where did you hear about 60 votes? Hannity/Beck/Limbaugh? I could not find any media report suggesting Dream act has 60 votes. It is dead on arrival.

bpratap

09-21-2010, 01:06 AM

Juz wondering if the dream ACT will eat up into the the VISA's of Employment based, especially EB3 ?

Hope they will create a seperate pool of VISA's for the Dream Act

new_horizon

09-21-2010, 06:46 AM

Yes. You are sure Sharon Angle will no do anything to get elected? This is part of politics and election. This is not a beauty contest. Why blame just Reid?

Where did you hear about 60 votes? Hannity/Beck/Limbaugh? I could not find any media report suggesting Dream act has 60 votes. It is dead on arrival.

yes my friend. Why else would he bring this last minute provision if not for the fact he wants to court the hispanics? Desperation my friend 'coz the polls are even for the majority leader. If he really had the intention of helping those illegals he should have done it much earlier during his super majority period. And help the legals too 'coz we have children aging out, and who need help going to colleges.

Edison99

09-21-2010, 07:01 AM

I welcome if anybody says 'I support Dream act but would like to include children of legal immigrant in the bill'.

desigirl

09-21-2010, 08:35 AM

The vote to overcome the filibuster on the Dream Act should be today.

n_2006

09-21-2010, 09:30 AM

More than Dream Act repealing Dont Ask Dont Tell is bigger threat to this bill.

Administrator2

09-21-2010, 09:30 AM

Here is the link to live feed from the Senate floor-

C-SPAN2 Live Stream - C-SPAN (http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN2.aspx)

Administrator2

09-21-2010, 09:37 AM

At this time two Republican co-sponsors Sen. Lugar and Sen. Voinovich have not agreed to support the cloture vote with Dream Act. As expected, some of the democrats are also opposed to Dream Act.

Saralayar

09-21-2010, 10:49 AM

I welcome if anybody says 'I support Dream act but would like to include children of legal immigrant in the bill'.
I sent an email to the senator Durbin with the same words...

Student with no hopes

09-21-2010, 10:59 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/21/us/politics/21immig.html?src=ISMR_HP_LO_MST_FB

Miguel Sanchez, 19, a Miami Dade College student who has been in the United States illegally since he was 10, was one side of an “A” in the human billboard message on Miami Beach, which was filmed by television cameras. Mr. Sanchez, who is from Honduras, said he hung back for years, worried that public protest could lead immigration agents to locate and deport him. But he said that if he continued much longer without legal status, he would not be able to transfer to a larger university to complete college.

“All of a sudden I’ve lost that fear,” Mr. Sanchez said.

This is what is needed from our community...

McLuvin

09-21-2010, 11:04 AM

I dont understand what you guys are arguing about...

How many of you would send your kids into Army just for the same of getting your GC's or for their GC's...

Or is it that my understanding about this arguement is wrong....

If its not related to us... either we support or it thinking that it might help our cause... or just move on...

Why all this cribbing and dribbling....

BimmerFAn

10-11-2010, 09:50 PM

India_USA

11-08-2010, 09:14 AM

Under the new language of the Dream Act is applies to both documented and undocumented resident aliens who were brought to the US before the age of 16, lives in the US for 5 years, are of good moral character, and have completed either a 2 year degree or 2 years military service.

Read the Bill under CIR if you have to and stop posting nonesense before you educate yourself on the issue.

Thanks!

DREAM ACT in the lame duck session will be a stand alone bill and not in the CIR. In the DREAM Act, there is no language that includes legal kids. It is only for the undocumented kids.

gc??

11-29-2010, 12:05 PM

Is the senate taking up this bill? and which version is Reid going to introduce - any idea?

veeratuli

12-07-2010, 02:53 PM

I still dont understand why everything is legal. Just approve the dream act. They are kids for god's sake.

Why dream act and not legal immigration? - Page 2 - Immigration Voice (http://gc.nosle.com/sfn/mth/view/immigration_INDEX_apn0-1291351838799/entry/Why-dream-act-and-not-legal-immigration?---Page-2---Immigration-Voice)

snathan

12-07-2010, 03:16 PM

go_guy123

12-07-2010, 03:49 PM

looivy

12-07-2010, 04:16 PM

If there are no EB provision in DREAM act and if we are still beating the drums for it then it is called - Beghaane ki shaadi main Abdullah Diwaana.

Loosely translated, it means that you are way too much happy when somebody else is getting married.

snathan

12-07-2010, 04:35 PM

I hope and wish the DREAM bill will fail if there is no relief for EB

veeratuli

12-07-2010, 04:56 PM

I'm not any illegal. I just dont like denying anyone immigration who is here.
FYI I got my gc via employment category.

New version of dream act introduced - Immigration Voice (http://gc.nosle.com/sfn/mth/view/immigration_INDEX_apn0-1291350259200/entry/New-version-of-dream-act-introduced---Immigration-Voice)

tonyHK12

12-07-2010, 06:11 PM

I'm not any illegal. I just dont like denying anyone immigration who is here.
FYI I got my gc via employment category.

Well its ok if you're illegal too, as long as you're being honest and compassionate and logical.
How come you didn't mention anything about visa recapture or people waiting for 10-20 years in the employment category?

PS: that red is not from me

veeratuli

12-07-2010, 06:19 PM

snathan

12-07-2010, 09:58 PM

Just because visa recapture did not happen does not mean dream act should not pass.

Just imagine your child who is us born and has known nothing else. This is all the world they know. I believe the congress should work on both visa recatures and also legalizing dream act.

There is plenty of space in america.

If the child is US born why it needs the amnesty. Dont talk rubbish. You illegals holding us hostage. Do you know something called law and respect it.

veeratuli

12-07-2010, 10:42 PM

Just like there are unjust men, there are unjust laws - Gandhi.

There was no boundary before between mexico and souther us. Now this govt is powerful and can deny others in. It also make laws to protect their boundaries. Some of them are just and some of them are unjust.

If your visa expires by one day, you too are illegal. Dont get caught by the word legal or illegal. See if they contribute to this economy and go from there. There is need for everyone here.

snathan

12-07-2010, 11:33 PM

veeratuli

12-08-2010, 10:25 AM

English did not leave India. They occupied all the natural resources of india, leaving thar desert for native indians, and then provide a complex immigration path for indians to come from there to the mainland. How would that feel?

I came here on a valid visa and got my gc legally.
But that does not make me blind, to my sorroundings.

Let us all work together to legalize or simplify immigration. Remember with unity comes strength. Hence no one cares about legal immigration. Join with other hard working people and we can also benefit. If you still dont believe me, I'm also in the legal immigration camp, waiting for my citizenship.

God bless america. It is a great country, with many flaws, but better than anything else out there.

h1techSlave

12-08-2010, 10:32 AM

I totally agree with you that "with unity comes strength". I choose to unite with all the law abiding people in the US.

English did not leave India. They occupied all the natural resources of india, leaving thar desert for native indians, and then provide a complex immigration path for indians to come from there to the mainland. How would that feel?

I came here on a valid visa and got my gc legally.
But that does not make me blind, to my sorroundings.

Let us all work together to legalize or simplify immigration. Remember with unity comes strength. Hence no one cares about legal immigration. Join with other hard working people and we can also benefit. If you still dont believe me, I'm also in the legal immigration camp, waiting for my citizenship.

God bless america. It is a great country, with many flaws, but better than anything else out there.

tonyHK12

12-08-2010, 11:02 AM

mmillo

12-08-2010, 11:12 AM

I totally agree with you that "with unity comes strength". I choose to unite with all the law abiding people in the US.

I agree with you please

veeratuli

12-08-2010, 11:40 AM

smuggymba

12-08-2010, 11:50 AM

Obama administration, Dems urge passage of DREAM Act - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/12/08/dream.act/index.html?hpt=T2)

Obama administration, Dems urge passage of DREAM Act

I hope it fails and it does not have anything for legals. Why should legals suffer, we have been here for 10 years (illegals have been here for 10-15 or so) and still don't have GC. Illegals get GC and then their whole family gets it eventually.

psaxena

12-08-2010, 12:45 PM

and who are you to ask them to go away???
Remember this place is also not yours... united we win seperated we fall.
Immigration is the nature, it happened , happening and will keep happening.Talking trash will not help anyone.
Help them and be united and we all will get the success.

There is Plenty of space in The USA but not for illegals and their childrens sorry. Whatever your justify this case no donuts for you.. go away you illegal.

psaxena

12-08-2010, 01:03 PM

United is united , not with if and but clauses.

You guys are supposed to be the educated and intelligent ones, with degrees from BIG colleges, how come your thought process with the illegals who hardly have seen the school?

"ooncha hua to kya hua jaise ped khajoor ,
panthi ko chaawn nahi fal laage ati door."

Being big is no good if you cannot help others. and in this case you need help and still you have issues. You guys are better with the people who call you names like indiots and slumdog. What are you going to do by united with the handful of legal where a legal doesn't want to talk to another legal because the other legal is EB2 and you are EB3.. Leave aside the other legal who already have GC and citizenship. They don't even want you here. So you are united with those legals?????
Forget Legal and Illegal.. you are an immigrant thats it.. some with knowledge some with something else. But plain simple you are an IMMIGRANT . just think it this way and be united. I am surprised a bunch of donors are also into this trash talking. Guys act responsibly, just donating a few dollars are not going to make a difference , change your way of thinking also.
IMMIGRANT

I totally agree with you that "with unity comes strength". I choose to unite with all the law abiding people in the US.

smuggymba

12-08-2010, 01:10 PM

The new version does not have anything called Visa Recapture or anything for legals and I think DREAM was supposed to be tabled today in the senate. So, I hope it fails. Unity my a**.....do illegals support Visa Recap - hell No. They will get GC's along with their family and become americans and oppose legal EB immigration....and will support only Family Based.

tonyHK12

12-08-2010, 01:27 PM

not staying it was stolen, just to keep in mind what happened in the past, and after all we are all humans too. Terms legal and illegal w.r.to immigration is only created by lawmakers and they can redefine it with fair terms.

Don't worry, our core group is very much in touch with the illegal lobby in their campaign. Yes its good to work together and it needs to happen from both sides.

snathan

12-08-2010, 01:30 PM

and who are you to ask them to go away???
Remember this place is also not yours... united we win seperated we fall.
Immigration is the nature, it happened , happening and will keep happening.Talking trash will not help anyone.
Help them and be united and we all will get the success.

You want to unite with them so they can get their DREAM without any relief for legal immigrants....kudoos to you.:confused:

veeratuli

12-08-2010, 01:32 PM

thanks psaxkena for rising above and seeing what is right .
Glad that I'm not alone here.

hpandey

12-08-2010, 01:48 PM

I hope and wish the DREAM bill will fail if there is no relief for EB

I echo the same thoughts. I don't understand why we should push for the DREAM ACT if it has no bearing on the EB based Legal Immigrant community . If people are thinking that they will add Visa Recapture to the DREAM act that is just wishful thinking. Nothing is going to happen for EB numbers in this lame duck session .

veeratuli

12-08-2010, 01:48 PM

if you do not follow them

dummgelauft

12-08-2010, 01:50 PM

I hope and wish the DREAM bill will fail if there is no relief for EB

May GOD listen to your wish!!

dummgelauft

12-08-2010, 01:52 PM

I echo the same thoughts. I don't understand why we should push for the DREAM ACT if it has no bearing on the EB based Legal Immigrant community . If people are thinking that they will add Visa Recapture to the DREAM act that is just wishful thinking. Nothing is going to happen for EB numbers in this lame duck session .

Like we say in slang Hindi "DREAM act hamare liye KELA hi hoga"

sage2006

12-08-2010, 02:33 PM

And it is for that very reason we should stop illegal bashing on these forums.

It is disturbing to see senior members actively bashing illegal immigrants when the fact is that politically and from every other aspect (whether we like it or not), resolution of EB-IC backlogs is tited to resolution of illegal immigration issues.

Don't worry, our core group is very much in touch with the illegal lobby in their campaign. Yes its good to work together and it needs to happen from both sides.

veeratuli

12-08-2010, 02:34 PM

Am glad to help in any manner, but if you want me to help by saying no to other people who happen to be "illegal" in your eyes, then I do not. You do not step on others to get your way.

desi3933

12-08-2010, 02:57 PM

......

abe chup kar..

No doubt, you are "highly" educated and follow Upanishads. Great going!!!

.

desi3933

12-08-2010, 03:10 PM

Mr.Desi. one who is having knowledge should not be passive.. ok. what do you think a person who is educated?? be a door mat??? and agree to things which are not justified. man you have to learn a lot. so You also support Dream act???

No. I don't support Dream Act. However, one can clearly see which group is actively lobbying to their success.

My comment was limited your comment.

You have no right to say "Shut Up" (thats English translation for your comment in Hindi) to another forum member. They have same right as you to put forward their views. You may chose to agree (or disagree) with his/her view.

May I suggest you go thru my old posts before making any assumptions about myself.

You need to need to do reality check. Question you should ask yourself - why businesses or employers not supporting legal immigration reforms? Why people start looking other way after getting GC?

Good Luck to you.

go_guy123

12-08-2010, 03:21 PM

and who are you to ask them to go away???
Remember this place is also not yours... united we win seperated we fall.
Immigration is the nature, it happened , happening and will keep happening.Talking trash will not help anyone.
Help them and be united and we all will get the success.

help them...so that they turn around and screw back...time and again hispanic caucus has held up SKIL bill under the need for a "comprehensive". But they want the piecemeal "Dream Act" as downpayment.

desi3933

12-08-2010, 03:24 PM

The reason I said abe chup. is he is just sneaking into the affairs and personally attacking others. .....

Would you be kind enough to show me the post when he personally attacked?

You are the one who said this
...who are you to mediate between Legal or Illegal.

abe chup kar..

You have no right to put that question. Everybody has right to put their views. Just because you don't like them is not good enough to use such language.

_______________________
Not a legal advice
US citizen of Indian origin

snathan

12-08-2010, 03:32 PM

Am glad to help in any manner, but if you want me to help by saying no to other people who happen to be "illegal" in your eyes, then I do not. You do not step on others to get your way.

We are not bothering whats happening with the illegals. Why we are held hostage...?

tonyHK12

12-08-2010, 03:44 PM

ok we all thought you were referring to psaxena, but it seems to have been for veeratuli

desi3933

12-08-2010, 03:45 PM

Mr.Desi, the subject line and the You do not follow them is more than enough to prove he is abusing in an indirect way.
......

well, now you have come down to "abusing in an indirect way" from "personally attacking others".

......
And Mr.Desi. what is bothering you now?

That you should be asking yourself and may be you would know who should follow "abe chup kar".

You are truly a big follower of Upanishads.

Speak when you are angry - and you'll make the best speech you'll ever regret. -- Dr. Laurence J. Peter

________________
Not a legal advice.

tonyHK12

12-08-2010, 04:14 PM

Who is that WE you evangalist..

What do you mean evangalist. Do you even know the meaning of the word ?

tonyHK12

12-08-2010, 04:26 PM

do you know the meaning??? otherwise Ignorance is bliss.

Tell me what is INRI???

Yes I know the meaning of everything, its none of your business.
Why do you keep talking unnecessary stuff not related to this thread. This forum is not a place to throw your bullshit there are other places in your house for that.

InTheMoment

12-08-2010, 04:28 PM

desi3933,

My dear - one does not expressly "follow" the Principle of Relativity as expounded recently by Einstein or Heisenberg's Uncertainly Principle or Newton's Principia Mathematica ...right? These principles discover things as they are ...same applies to the Upanishads ! It is not a book thumping exercise :)

You are truly a big follower of Upanishads.

gc_on_demand

12-08-2010, 04:29 PM

Lawmakers are discussing on house floor.. and we are fighting here...

PavanV

12-08-2010, 04:30 PM

do you know the meaning??? otherwise Ignorance is bliss.

Tell me what is INRI???

Thanks for the novel piece of entertainment guys !!

tonyHK12

12-08-2010, 05:01 PM

don't make statements without any proof.
This is what happens when desi consulting companies bring in every tom, dick and harry.

Like they say its better to avoid disease and bullshit. I'll also spare everyone the burden of reading your posts.

tonyHK12

12-08-2010, 05:54 PM

Live voting now:
C-SPAN Live Stream - C-SPAN (http://www.cspan.org/Watch/C-SPAN.aspx)

ronhira

12-08-2010, 06:27 PM

Live voting now:
C-SPAN Live Stream - C-SPAN (http://www.cspan.org/Watch/C-SPAN.aspx)

looks like house is now getting ready to vote on the dream act....

gc_on_demand

12-08-2010, 06:48 PM

so far only one congress man mentioned about wait time legals are facing..

there are plenty congress men , women know about our issue but didn't mention about it.

gc_peshwa

12-08-2010, 06:52 PM

Sakthisagar
We understand your frustration at being kept waiting in the GC queue. But for a minute put yourself in the shoes of an American politician (or a citizen for that matter). For them we all are thrown in the "immigrants" bucket. Pretty much like a pure vegetarian who terms all the items on sale with a vendor as "fish" the moment he sees a fish vendor in a market somewhere in India. As you know there are dozens of types of fishes, each with a different delicious taste!
Most american politicians are very similar to the pure vegetarians in my analogy above.
These undocumented guys will form a large sizable voting block for whoever champions their cause. They are represented by Congressional Hispanic Caucus (CHC) in the US Congress, and a very formidable force when it comes to immigration matters. They will not let any EB legislation pass easily until their needs are taken care of. Maybe like slumlords who will have his pot of water filled at the community tap before anybody else. This is a political reality we need accept.Who has the might to take them on? The EB community who doesnt even bother to participate in lobbying and advocacy? The EB folks (read some armchair "activists" on IV) dont even meet with immigration aides with senators, dont even bother to contribute during any advocacy events. We dont have the expertise of Julian Assange that we can take over the mite of an entire nation sitting comfy in our chairs. Wake Up dude, Wake Up!!
Please dont take offense, this applies to most of us.
Many of us make decent money compared to the average American. Why cant we contribute to IV? Why cant we meet with our senators?
I regularly see almost 100 members viewing any "top" IV thread at a liesurely time of the dayi.e. lunch time or at night.
If at least 10 of them start participating in IV efforts, it will make a tremendous difference!
There are many more reasons and I dont intend to preach but I request we stop this mud-slinging on the forum and not betray our rich cultural heritage!
Thank you.

smuggymba

12-08-2010, 07:39 PM

what's the latest on voting?

tonyHK12

12-08-2010, 07:51 PM

Final tally 216-198 in Favor of DREAM act close passage in the house. 38 dems voted against DREAM

mmanurker

12-08-2010, 08:00 PM

Yes -216
Nays - 198

this bill passed

smuggymba

12-08-2010, 08:38 PM

Final tally 216-198 in Favor of DREAM act close passage in the house. 38 dems voted against DREAM

is it the law or does this go to the senate before Obama's signature? Sorry i don't know the whole process.

tonyHK12

12-08-2010, 08:41 PM

is it the law or does this go to the senate before Obama's signature? Sorry i don't know the whole process.

It has to go to the Senate now, probably tomorrow. But its much tougher to clear the Senate if not impossible

ronhira

12-08-2010, 08:42 PM

is it the law or does this go to the senate before Obama's signature? Sorry i don't know the whole process.

u exactly know the whole process very well.....

y r u faking it..... this is y i don't trust, this is y i think u r anti-immigrant.....

gc_peshwa

12-08-2010, 09:44 PM

DREAM has passed. Lets wait and watch the sundance in Senate tomorrow. The Arizona law and the state of economy really polarized USA AGAINST any immigration legislation. Our bad luck...what else!

looivy

12-08-2010, 11:28 PM

so far only one congress man mentioned about wait time legals are facing..

there are plenty congress men , women know about our issue but didn't mention about it.

We should thank him and ask him to talk to senators on our behalf.

Also, we should call our senators and ask them to support only if EB visa provisions are included especially the Repubs.

smuggymba

12-09-2010, 08:12 AM

u exactly know the whole process very well.....

y r u faking it..... this is y i don't trust, this is y i think u r anti-immigrant.....

Looks like u didn't hear the admins words earlier. Control yourself. Now I read CNN today and know what's going on. Yesterday while watching C-SPAN, it said the bill has been okayed so I didn't know the next steps. Anyway, people who don't know the whole legislative process are anti-immigrants. Great. Talking to you is a total waste of time. Your PD is 2005, just take your GC and get the hell out of here. Don't ever reply to my post ever again.

smuggymba

12-09-2010, 08:17 AM

We should thank him and ask him to talk to senators on our behalf.

Also, we should call our senators and ask them to support only if EB visa provisions are included especially the Repubs.

Yesterday while watching cspan, Rep. Lamar mentioned that this bill hasn't gone through any subcommittee hearing (or something close, I might not remember the exact words) and hence no one had a chance to add any amendments.......what does this mean?

Did we never had a chance to add Visa Recapture? Can it be added in the Senate?

pallavan

12-09-2010, 08:20 AM

y r u faking it..... this is y i don't trust, this is y i think u r anti-immigrant.....

Didnt realize that the bodyshops are training their Cattle to spot antis these days :p

Give it up |oser !

Openarms

12-09-2010, 11:35 AM

Is there any benefits in there for Legals?

go_guy123

12-09-2010, 11:42 AM

Is there any benefits in there for Legals?

Nothing zip....not even legally entered children who did schooling and bachelors. Has to be undocumented to be eligible

willigetgc?

12-09-2010, 11:56 AM

I hope and wish the DREAM bill will fail if there is no relief for EB

Don't get me wrong here, I am in the same EB mess as everyone else in this forum. Just a word of caution.

As long as we hold the belief that "if our issues are not included in the bill, I wish for it to fail" - which is the same exact thing the Hispanic caucus will do for any of our stand alone bill.

If Dream fails, it will not be because of us. However, with the above attitude, if our bill comes up and fails (or does not come up at all), it will be because of Hispanic caucus. Their influence is far greater than ours.

Besides, IV team is always pointing us not to get into bashing the illegals.....

stemcell

12-09-2010, 12:04 PM

Administrator2

12-09-2010, 12:52 PM

DREAM act SHOULD FAIL UNLESS there is Visa recapture clause. If it passes stand alone no more immigration reform for many years.....

All the calling and emailing Senators was just a waste of time and more important being led in the wrong direction by IV.....

Wait a minute, if you will not call or speak with your Senator and Congressmen, how will you expect our provisions will become part of any bill. According to you, asking IV members to make phone calls and sending emails to include recapture in the Dream act is "being led in the wrong direction by IV"?

One more thing, passing of dream act or any such bill will clear way for piecemeal bills. For last 5 years nothing has passed. If everyone will continue with this narrow minded approach we will not see any new provision for next 100 years. If we follow your logic, then we will be doing same thing over and over again expecting different results, which is also a definition of insanity.

If you believe that asking members to call or speak with their member of congress to include recapture is "misleading" then why are you wasting your time visiting this website and why do you continue to discuss recapture provision if you don't want to talk to people whose vote will ultimately count on the floor of the Congress?

rnanchal

12-09-2010, 12:53 PM

Jan 2011 Visa Bulletin is out
Time for the infighting, squabling, derogatory remarks and narrow mindedness to reach new heights

smuggymba

12-09-2010, 12:55 PM

DREAM Act in danger after Senate Dems pull it from consideration - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/12/09/dream.act/index.html?hpt=T2)

Senate Democrats conceded Thursday they don't have the votes to pass the DREAM Act, a bill that would have offered a path to citizenship for some illegal immigrants who entered the United States as children.

stemcell

12-09-2010, 01:14 PM

Wait a minute, if you will not call or speak with your Senator and Congressmen, how will you expect our provisions will become part of any bill. According to you, asking IV members to make phone calls and sending emails to include recapture in the Dream act is "being led in the wrong direction by IV"?

One more thing, passing of dream act or any such bill will clear way for piecemeal bills. For last 5 years nothing has passed. If everyone will continue with this narrow minded approach we will not see any new provision for next 100 years. If we follow your logic, then we will be doing same thing over and over again expecting different results, which is also a definition of insanity.

If you believe that asking members to call or speak with their member of congress to include recapture is "misleading" then why are you wasting your time visiting this website and why do you continue to discuss recapture provision if you don't want to talk to people whose vote will ultimately count on the floor of the Congress?

Hello....Politicians are so narrow minded these days that when you call them about DREAM act, all they think is that it is concerned to illegals........
So if you want to have a piece meal legislation to be done (like visa recapture ) IV should pick a better pony....not the DREAM act.

Originally i thought that this was a good thing myself but personally after taking to Chambliss office i got the impression i am for DREAM act....I am not for DREAM act but for RECAPTURE ....but of course RECAPTURE is nothing they have heard off....So you get the point i suppose !

And i am not wasting my time here for nothing...I have vested interests in this and patients to take care off, i am expressing my opinions here......If my thinking is wrong lets debate it healthly....

tonyHK12

12-09-2010, 01:34 PM

So if you want to have a piece meal legislation to be done (like visa recapture ) IV should pick a better pony....not the DREAM act.

Originally i thought that this was a good thing myself but personally after taking to Chambliss office i got the impression i am for DREAM act....I am not for DREAM act but for RECAPTURE ....but of course RECAPTURE is nothing they have heard off....So you get the point i suppose !

And i am not wasting my time here for nothing...I have vested interests in this and patients to take care off, i am expressing my opinions here......If my thinking is wrong lets debate it healthly....

There is no other pony, we can get our provisions added only with other immigration bills - ones that already have some support. No one is going to add our provisions to any other kind of Bill. Why should they?
It is our job to educate law makers about recapture. No one else is going to do this. The reason everyone is talking about DREAM is because illegals are everywhere in rallies, news and in vigils talking about DREAM persistently.

looivy

12-09-2010, 01:35 PM

Wait a minute, if you will not call or speak with your Senator and Congressmen, how will you expect our provisions will become part of any bill. According to you, asking IV members to make phone calls and sending emails to include recapture in the Dream act is "being led in the wrong direction by IV"?

One more thing, passing of dream act or any such bill will clear way for piecemeal bills. For last 5 years nothing has passed. If everyone will continue with this narrow minded approach we will not see any new provision for next 100 years. If we follow your logic, then we will be doing same thing over and over again expecting different results, which is also a definition of insanity.

If you believe that asking members to call or speak with their member of congress to include recapture is "misleading" then why are you wasting your time visiting this website and why do you continue to discuss recapture provision if you don't want to talk to people whose vote will ultimately count on the floor of the Congress?

I believe that LEGALs are frustrated. Waiting for a GC for 7-9 years will do that to you. However, I think that IV should target Republicans in addition to Dems because they are pro-business. Why don't we reach out to Jeff Chaffetz R-UT. Somebody mentioned on the forum that he did talk about backlogs for LEGALS on C-SPAN.

stemcell

12-09-2010, 01:41 PM

There is no other pony, we can get our provisions added only with other immigration bills - ones that already have some support. No one is going to add our provisions to any other kind of Bill. Why should they?
It is our job to educate law makers about recapture. No one else is going to do this. The reason everyone is talking about DREAM is because illegals are everywhere in rallies, news and in vigils talking about DREAM persistently.

I completely agree their is no other pony.
But again just because there is no flight to Chicago today does not mean you take the plane to Miami.

I can see your point of view and IV's....for a second come outside the box and think what i am saying.....

willigetgc?

12-09-2010, 01:46 PM

DREAM act SHOULD FAIL UNLESS there is Visa recapture clause. If it passes stand alone no more immigration reform for many years.....

All the calling and emailing Senators was just a waste of time and more important being led in the wrong direction by IV.....

On your first comment, I have already let my opinions known.

On your second comment, you are misleading others. If you had read the email you sent (to Chambliss), you would have noted that recapture was not part of the Dream Act - and if you read it carefully, you would have realized the nature in which recapture was asked to be added. Second of all, knowing Chambliss, you should have known the about the standard answer you got. You should be upset with his office for not even reading the email you sent - as you were addressing a different aspect. You should have followed up with their staff member and got them to understand the difference. And as you have said in another post, the fault is with us for not voicing our problems with our legislators.

IV never mislead anyone, it gave an action item to be followed up. Doing nothing would have been no better. Assuming you are a doctor (taking care of patients), would you be calling your patients to treat them when they have no symptoms?

See if we have done 1/4 of what the undocumented community are doing http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1781170-why-dream-act-and-not-legal-immigration.html

vbkris77

12-09-2010, 01:55 PM

I completely agree their is no other pony.
But again just because there is no flight to Chicago today does not mean you take the plane to Miami.

I can see your point of view and IV's....for a second come outside the box and think what i am saying.....

Its a bad analogy, First of all, if you don't trust IV direction, why are you around??? If you do, read Admin message again, if there is no piece mail approach to immigration issues, there is way out for us. After healthcare bill, no comprehensive bill will ever pass under Obama presidency.

So make up your mind..

For last 2 years, we have been pushed out of most offices showing CIR in mirror.. If you had talked your congressional leaders or their staffs seriously, you would know this..

stemcell

12-09-2010, 02:01 PM

On your first comment, I have already let my opinions known.

On your second comment, you are misleading others. If you had read the email you sent (to Chambliss), you would have noted that recapture was not part of the Dream Act - and if you read it carefully, you would have realized the nature in which recapture was asked to be added. Second of all, knowing Chambliss, you should have known the about the standard answer you got. You should be upset with his office for not even reading the email you sent - as you were addressing a different aspect. You should have followed up with their staff member and got them to understand the difference. And as you have said in another post, the fault is with us for not voicing our problems with our legislators.

IV never mislead anyone, it gave an action item to be followed up. Doing nothing would have been no better. Assuming you are a doctor (taking care of patients), would you be calling your patients to treat them when they have no symptoms?

See if we have done 1/4 of what the undocumented community are doing http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum85-action-items-for-everyone/1781170-why-dream-act-and-not-legal-immigration.html

I can spend a day discussing with the lawmakers provided they are willing to listen to us and the timing is right. Again in the context of DREAM act i felt i wasted my time talking to lawmakers because at the end of the day all they were concerned was DREAM = Illegals.

Anyway thats it for today.Ohh i didnt get the point you were making about calling patients when they dont have symptoms. I do occasionally do that and explaining why is beyond the scope of this discussion.

tonyHK12

12-09-2010, 02:25 PM

I can see your point of view and IV's....for a second come outside the box and think what i am saying.....

I guess what you're saying is why not have a stand alone bill for recapture. We've already tried all that over the last few years. There was/is no support for stand alone /piece meal for legal immigrants. This might change after DREAM. DREAM was the only stand-alone that had some support from politicians.

stemcell

12-09-2010, 02:33 PM

I guess what you're saying is why not have a stand alone bill for recapture. We've already tried all that over the last few years. There was/is no support for stand alone /piece meal for legal immigrants. This might change after DREAM. DREAM was the only stand-alone that had some support from politicians.

My worst fear was DREAM passing without recapture added.
If this current administration had passed DREAM...they have a lot to harp on....on the immigration front and LEGAL immigration ....just forget about it.

The longer they dont act on immigration........the pressure continues on the administration to act on it, albeit the pressure is more from illegals. So we continue our agenda....LEGAL immigration agenda/CIR.

tonyHK12

12-09-2010, 02:38 PM

My worst fear was DREAM passing without recapture added.
If this current administration had passed DREAM...they have a lot to harp on....on the immigration front and LEGAL immigration ....just forget about it.

Unfortunately the govt never really distinuguishes legal and illegal clearly if you consider the group as a whole. Morover our supporters in govt and the ones supporting DREAM are kind of very similar - mostly same guys are working on both. so we need their support to advance our goals too.
Unfortunately there is no large group of Senators or house reps that will work only for legal immigrants. we have to learn to work around this.

sage2006

12-09-2010, 02:43 PM

What "fear" are you talking about?? You are talking as if Congress was waiting with open arms to add visa recapture to any bill we want. DREAM Act proponents have been working at this bill for months and from EB perspective, I think and interpret that our overall goal was to try our best to push our amendments in the short time frame available - there were no high hopes at any point.

My worst fear was DREAM passing without recapture added.
If this current administration had passed DREAM...they have a lot to harp on....on the immigration front and LEGAL immigration ....just forget about it.

The longer they dont act on immigration........the pressure continues on the administration to act on it, albeit the pressure is more from illegals. So we continue our agenda....LEGAL immigration agenda/CIR.

Administrator2

12-09-2010, 04:01 PM

Dream Act has been around for more than 10 years now. People have lobbied heavily investing a lot of resources (many thousand times than the high skilled immigration groups) to push for their agenda. To add to the resources, beneficiaries of Dream act have consistently come out to speak with the lawmakers. Our sense is that folks in EB backlogs think that three mouse clicks to send an email is sufficient to get our provisions, and anything more is just pure waste of their time. We have not come out in sufficient large numbers to speak for the issue. And the proof is that no one is talking of SKIL bill or recapture and the Dream act passed in the House and it has the possibility of getting substantial votes in the Senate.

There is nothing to fear from the Dream act. A few here may think that it’s a zero sum game. And sometimes the general mind-set is that "If dream act is passing, it must be talking away something from me". Not true. The fact is that this is not a zero sum game. Although IV desperately wants recapture and other provisions in Dream Act or any other bill that can see our provisions through, IV would not oppose Dream Act even when it does not include the recapture provision. Some of the folks here may hate us for saying this, but that’s ok because it’s important for everyone to understand what we now understand. And even if you disagree, we are ok, because we understand that you have not had the opportunity to see the legislative process and how laws are made. The fact is, we have been waiting for something for last 5 years, and we have not seen any high-skilled provision pass because of the stalemate. If we oppose Dream Act, we could lose the support on our issues from the Senators seeking to pass the Dream Act. So, unlike anonymous individuals who can formulate any opinion or change opinion at anytime, as an organization IV do not have the luxury to oppose Dream Act, which has the support of over 50 Senators, because we know that opposing Dream Act will come back to haunt us later.

You, as an anonymous individual, can formulate and express any opinion, but remember, your expression of opposition will also not go unnoticed. Each Senate office keeps a tally of who opposed and who supported their pet issue. Why would you want to oppose something that will end up losing votes on your issue? That’s not very smart.

As Senator Bennett said today on the Senate floor, “the most important vote is the next one” which we can not afford to lose.

If we were to do this for rest of our lives then we can say things like:

If you wish you can hand in glove with them and no one is stopping. Why do I need to pay for the illegal's doc to be processed and untie with them. So they can go ahead of us cutting the line.

But we do not want to continue to do this. We want things to get done so that we can go home, meaning, do other things. "Why should I pay for him" or "why should I pay for her" is just too much baloney from talk radio junk? Anyone can come up with justification to support or oppose anything under the sun. Our goal is to get things done. And if passing Dream act gets us closer to that goal, then so be it.

tonyHK12

12-09-2010, 05:52 PM

But we do not want to continue to do this. We want things to get done so that we can go home, meaning, do other things. "Why should I pay for him" or "why should I pay for her" is just too much baloney from talk radio junk? Anyone can come up with justification to support or oppose anything under the sun. Our goal is to get things done. And if passing Dream act gets us closer to that goal, then so be it.

Great post. most immigrants aren't aware of the intricacies of politics. What we should remember is we are an organization representing immigrants. A single person cribbing and arguing with others cannot achieve anything. Saying you are part of IV makes a huge difference.
Its childish to say if you don't do what I say, then I won't join your organization.
Look at our home page to see who our advisers are - they are national experts in the field and have thought of everything.

Before newbies bash others its wise to get educated, and if you have doubts ask questions and make a coordinated effort as an organization not a single individual.

gk_2000

12-09-2010, 06:11 PM

Great post. most immigrants aren't aware of the intricacies of politics. What we should remember is we are an organization representing immigrants. A single person cribbing and arguing with others cannot achieve anything. Saying you are part of IV makes a huge difference.
Its childish to say if you don't do what I say, then I won't join your organization.

It's OK to say "If you don't make monthly contributions then you are NOT a donor, and we will not admit you in our organization". Not at all childish.

I will get a red or two for opposing/criticizing. Not at all childish

World runs on criticisms, and constructive criticisms. If you just do as you like and not listen to anyone, then don't blame the ones who won't join with you. If someone feels differently than you you MUST approach respectfully if you want to expand your point of view

Look at our home page to see who our advisers are - they are national experts in the field and have thought of everything.

Before newbies bash others its wise to get educated, and if you have doubts ask questions and make a coordinated effort as an organization not a single individual.
Experts are experts, but ask the ant that is holding the burden how it feels like, and not an ant scientist

Administrator2

12-09-2010, 07:39 PM

It's OK to say "If you don't make monthly contributions then you are NOT a donor, and we will not admit you in our organization". Not at all childish.

I will get a red or two for opposing/criticizing. Not at all childish

We don't know what is childish but we do know what you are saying is not helping you, so its not very smart, I guess.

Lobbying, advocacy organizing events etc and getting information requires resources. What's wrong with donor access for those who are willing to contribute for your cause? Every day when you switch on your TV to watch those channels for which you paid for, and then you are not able to view TV channels for which you did not pay. Is that wrong that the cable company is not providing you access to the channels you did not pay/subscribe? Have you ever called your cable company telling them that they are childish? I guess not, maybe because your cable companies know who you are, but here, on the anonymous forum you can just type anything anonymously and you get a sense that no one is watching. Maybe that's why someone defined character as "how we behave when no one is watching".

We do provide information to all members, after first sharing the information with donor members. Why is that wrong? Why is that childish?

World runs on criticisms, and constructive criticisms. If you just do as you like and not listen to anyone, then don't blame the ones who won't join with you. If someone feels differently than you you MUST approach respectfully if you want to expand your point of view

Experts are experts, but ask the ant that is holding the burden how it feels like, and not an ant scientist

And you are not "joining" me when you speak up for yourself. So not for a minute think that you are doing anyone else a favor if you speak to the member of Congress. This "scientist" attitude is the very reason why we see consideration for Dream act and not Skil bill.

We welcome constructive criticisms but criticisms is not necessary just for heck of it.

gk_2000

12-10-2010, 02:06 AM

We don't know what is childish but we do know what you are saying is not helping you, so its not very smart, I guess.

Lobbying, advocacy organizing events etc and getting information requires resources. What's wrong with donor access for those who are willing to contribute for your cause? Every day when you switch on your TV to watch those channels for which you paid for, and then you are not able to view TV channels for which you did not pay. Is that wrong that the cable company is not providing you access to the channels you did not pay/subscribe? Have you ever called your cable company telling them that they are childish? I guess not, maybe because your cable companies know who you are, but here, on the anonymous forum you can just type anything anonymously and you get a sense that no one is watching. Maybe that's why someone defined character as "how we behave when no one is watching".

We do provide information to all members, after first sharing the information with donor members. Why is that wrong? Why is that childish?

And you are not "joining" me when you speak up for yourself. So not for a minute think that you are doing anyone else a favor if you speak to the member of Congress. This "scientist" attitude is the very reason why we see consideration for Dream act and not Skil bill.

We welcome constructive criticisms but criticisms is not necessary just for heck of it.

Dear Administrator

Here is the definition of "Donor" according to online dictionary(donor - definition of donor by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/donor)) and elsewhere:
do·nor (dnr)
n.
1. One that contributes something, such as money, to a cause or fund.
2. Medicine An individual from whom blood, tissue, or an organ is taken for transfusion, implantation, or transplant.
3. Chemistry An atom, molecule, or ion that provides a part to combine with an acceptor, especially an atom that provides two electrons to form a bond with another atom.
4. Electronics An element introduced into a semiconductor with a negative valence greater than that of the pure semiconductor.
adj. Medicine
Used for transfusion, implantation, or transplant: a donor organ.

I fulfill this definition from pt (1). But not according to IV dictionary. That means whatever lecture you gave about being a donor is moot

As for speaking for "myself", I assure you, I am not the only person who feels that IV process is undemocratic, and any dissenting views are quickly met with red-cards. There are several instances that I can point out in these very forums

Now, you yourself may be above-board, but there are some here who do need to correct their attitude

When I and other members pointed out that the letter format sent to senators didn't succeed in putting the point across we only got bullied with reds. If this is how you run these forums then why would people be interested in contributing.
No, I am not doing anyone a favor by speaking to senators myself. But my point here is that our effectiveness as an organization is reduced when we have undemocratic process.
All I ask is to discuss ways to improve our approach and share with us, at least thru private messages, about the things necessary for us to know so we are on the same page
Once again, get no kick out of wasting my time criticizing unknown persons in forums. I have a full-time job. If I said something, it because I felt it needed to be said

waitingnwaiting

12-10-2010, 08:01 AM

Here is the definition of "Donor" according to online dictionary(donor - definition of donor by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/donor)) and elsewhere:
do·nor (dnr)
n.
1. One that contributes something, such as money, to a cause or fund.
2. Medicine An individual from whom blood, tissue, or an organ is taken for transfusion, implantation, or transplant.
3. Chemistry An atom, molecule, or ion that provides a part to combine with an acceptor, especially an atom that provides two electrons to form a bond with another atom.
4. Electronics An element introduced into a semiconductor with a negative valence greater than that of the pure semiconductor.
adj. Medicine
Used for transfusion, implantation, or transplant: a donor organ.

I fulfill this definition from pt (1). But not according to IV dictionary. That means whatever lecture you gave about being a donor is moot

I should also get a donor status because I am contributing posts on the forum? :D

stemcell

12-10-2010, 08:10 AM

"Our goal is to get things done. And if passing Dream act gets us closer to that goal, then so be it."

This is what i assumed it was and i am glad you said it.

Lets say DREAM passed and there was no recapture---we are back to one.

If DREAM passed with recapture, then that would be great, EB community would get a breather and for the next 5 yrs things would be ok. But backlog will eventually happen again.
So we start lobbying again for removing country limits.

America is going through a 'instant gratification' phase. Everybody wants something done 'right' now. Politicians, corporations , and public. Prime example the extension of tax cuts couple of days ago......

What we need is CIR, fix the damn issue once and for all. Border security, take care of the illegals already here, LEGAL immigration and we are all better off as a country.

Again i am not vetting out my frustration at IV or anyone. I am just watching this country go down the gutters so rapidly that i am now wondering is this the america i wanted. Do i want to raise my kids here. It was definitely worth it for me, but is it worth it for the next generation?

And for the smarty pants out there...yes i dont understand politics but what i do understand is when a job has to be done it has to be done right, something the current breed of politicians dont understand.

Anyway this topic is usually for fridays evening over couple of shots of Gold label.
Cheers IV.
Happy weekend.

rnanchal

12-10-2010, 08:24 AM

No you shoud get donor status for researching the meaning of donor in the online dictionary :D

bobyal

12-10-2010, 08:58 AM

It looks like the IV leadership is lobbied by the ILLEGALS to the extent the forum now supports more illegal than legal.

tonyHK12

12-10-2010, 09:01 AM

I will get a red or two for opposing/criticizing. Not at all childish
...
When I and other members pointed out that the letter format sent to senators didn't succeed in putting the point across we only got bullied with reds. If this is how you run these forums then why would people be interested in contributing.

Guess you got answers to most of your questions. why are you worried about reds. The admins or IV don't need to give you reds,
any new person or member can create an account in 1 minute and give anyone reds.

Well I don't want to speak for the core, but its also impractical to answer questions from 46000 members.
And if you are not a Donor, there's no way of verifying you're not from some place like 'IT grunt'

well you talked about Democracy - why don't you join a State chapter and take part in conference calls. we have a democratic process of listening to every ones opinions in our campaigns. Of course we can't listen to an anonymous anti-immigrant on the forum.

bobyal

12-10-2010, 09:06 AM

Ideally the IV leadership would have negotiated a Win-Win deal to include AT LEAST one provision for legals before campaigning for the DREAM ACT, which if approved literally chocks the USCIS and no more legal applications processed for next few years.

IV leadership says the ILLEGAL forum doesn't need any of our support, which is not true. See how much majority they got in congress and still struggling in Senate. We sure would have got the AT the WORST "able to file I-485 and get EAD without being current" into the bill.

We are only talking about less than 150,000 legals in queue for years Vs 12 million ILLEGALS.

Yet, we DON'T want to say the IV leadership got SOLD OUT by the lobbying efforts.

tonyHK12

12-10-2010, 09:14 AM

Ideally the IV leadership would have negotiated a Win-Win deal to include AT LEAST one provision for legals before campaigning for the DREAM ACT, which if approved literally chocks the USCIS and no more legal applications processed for next few years..

Well we had repeated this about 10 times in the last few days, but we are in no position to negotiate for a Win-Win. No one cares about the legal community because we cannot compare to them in terms of activity levels of our group or funding.
All legal immigrants are doing is having new "Eureka" ideas on forums.
Like they say Beggars cannot be choosers, and the reason for this is legal immigrants themselves.

bobyal

12-10-2010, 09:19 AM

eastindia

12-10-2010, 09:37 AM

Remember the flower campaign, we didn't spend a lot to get attention. We would have sent flowers to congress to give some attention to the LEGAL QUEUE.

Even if that may not get any benefit right now, it would have got the attention of the nation

What have you done in since Feb 2009 after joining IV to help yourself?
You talk about being able to file I485. What have you done for that effort? Basically some smarty pant comes every other day here and blames and goes away to earn their dollars. If you were so worried about your Greencard you would be doing something than just ranting.

eastindia

12-10-2010, 09:38 AM

Remember the flower campaign, we didn't spend a lot to get attention. We would have sent flowers to congress to give some attention to the LEGAL QUEUE.

Even if that may not get any benefit right now, it would have got the attention of the nation

Is copying an old idea and recycling the best you can come up with Mr. Best and the Brightest?
Come up with something better.

eastindia

12-10-2010, 09:41 AM

Remember the flower campaign, we didn't spend a lot to get attention. We would have sent flowers to congress to give some attention to the LEGAL QUEUE.

Even if that may not get any benefit right now, it would have got the attention of the nation

If you really want, you can send flowers to your own Senator every day until you get their attention. And then go and get a bill introduced for all of us. How about that?
We all on the forum will be forever grateful for such noble deed to you.

bobyal

12-10-2010, 09:50 AM

I understand the frustration by the leadership, when someone points the facts. It is easy to divert the attention by saying what you did? Why don't you do it? Old idea?

The new idea is just support DREAM ACT.

The backdoor deals and lobbying are common. It is not only for IV. We just need to live with them.

sanz

12-10-2010, 09:58 AM

Dream act or not.......: if they r thinking abt immigration then that in itself is a big thing

tonyHK12

12-10-2010, 10:05 AM

I understand the frustration by the leadership, when someone points the facts. It is easy to divert the attention by saying what you did? Why don't you do it? Old idea?
...
The backdoor deals and lobbying are common. It is not only for IV. We just need to live with them.
Dude, we are not the leadership, we are immigrants who are contributing to the effort unlike you. And since you don't have a profile I'll assume you are an anti-immigrant, who is also just plain ignorant or stupid. Nothing you said makes sense. And like an anti-immigrant you keep repeating the same illogical arguments just to spread discontent.
In spite of 10-15 posts explaining the process you just keep trying to trash the organization.
Otherwise, let me guess you also probably broke laws paid money to a desi consulting company for H1 , GC and so are hiding behind the shadows.

StarSun

12-10-2010, 10:26 AM

Dear Administrator

Here is the definition of "Donor" according to online dictionary(donor - definition of donor by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/donor)) and elsewhere:
do·nor (dnr)
n.
1. One that contributes something, such as money, to a cause or fund.
2. Medicine An individual from whom blood, tissue, or an organ is taken for transfusion, implantation, or transplant.
3. Chemistry An atom, molecule, or ion that provides a part to combine with an acceptor, especially an atom that provides two electrons to form a bond with another atom.
4. Electronics An element introduced into a semiconductor with a negative valence greater than that of the pure semiconductor.
adj. Medicine
Used for transfusion, implantation, or transplant: a donor organ.

I fulfill this definition from pt (1). But not according to IV dictionary. That means whatever lecture you gave about being a donor is moot

As for speaking for "myself", I assure you, I am not the only person who feels that IV process is undemocratic, and any dissenting views are quickly met with red-cards. There are several instances that I can point out in these very forums

Now, you yourself may be above-board, but there are some here who do need to correct their attitude

When I and other members pointed out that the letter format sent to senators didn't succeed in putting the point across we only got bullied with reds. If this is how you run these forums then why would people be interested in contributing.
No, I am not doing anyone a favor by speaking to senators myself. But my point here is that our effectiveness as an organization is reduced when we have undemocratic process.
All I ask is to discuss ways to improve our approach and share with us, at least thru private messages, about the things necessary for us to know so we are on the same page
Once again, get no kick out of wasting my time criticizing unknown persons in forums. I have a full-time job. If I said something, it because I felt it needed to be said

Hi gk_2000,
How are you? I spoke with you in Oct explaining about our donor forums - and also about the importance of meeting with lawmakers. Please let me know if you need help or have questions.

StarSun

12-10-2010, 10:34 AM

Any IV member who has any frustration with IV leadership, please call me at 202-386-5260.

If you would like for me to call you (and I have been trying to reach as many as possible), please update your profile to reflect the correct ph number and email. You can also reach me at ivcoordinator@gmail.com

Administrator2

12-10-2010, 10:36 AM

Dear Administrator

Here is the definition of "Donor" according to online dictionary(donor - definition of donor by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/donor)) and elsewhere:
do·nor (dnr)
n.
1. One that contributes something, such as money, to a cause or fund.
2. Medicine An individual from whom blood, tissue, or an organ is taken for transfusion, implantation, or transplant.
3. Chemistry An atom, molecule, or ion that provides a part to combine with an acceptor, especially an atom that provides two electrons to form a bond with another atom.
4. Electronics An element introduced into a semiconductor with a negative valence greater than that of the pure semiconductor.
adj. Medicine
Used for transfusion, implantation, or transplant: a donor organ.

I fulfill this definition from pt (1). But not according to IV dictionary. That means whatever lecture you gave about being a donor is moot

As for speaking for "myself", I assure you, I am not the only person who feels that IV process is undemocratic, and any dissenting views are quickly met with red-cards. There are several instances that I can point out in these very forums

Now, you yourself may be above-board, but there are some here who do need to correct their attitude

When I and other members pointed out that the letter format sent to senators didn't succeed in putting the point across we only got bullied with reds. If this is how you run these forums then why would people be interested in contributing.
No, I am not doing anyone a favor by speaking to senators myself. But my point here is that our effectiveness as an organization is reduced when we have undemocratic process.
All I ask is to discuss ways to improve our approach and share with us, at least thru private messages, about the things necessary for us to know so we are on the same page
Once again, get no kick out of wasting my time criticizing unknown persons in forums. I have a full-time job. If I said something, it because I felt it needed to be said

I think you are a reasonable and educated person with clear understanding of the meaning of the word "donor". So I am not sure about the need to look it up in the dictionary.

Just because you disagree with me doesn't make IV "undemocratic". IV is democratic organization, just that you don't have a vote in the process and core team because you don't spend time and energy to participate in IV activities.

Like yourself, I also have a job and family to take care, besides working on IV as a volunteer. None of us in the core has time to give reds cards or green cards to anyone. Other members on the forum use it to express their support and opinion, maybe that is part of the democratic process which you seem to support, but at the same time don't like the system when you get red cards.

Administrator2

12-10-2010, 10:55 AM

It looks like the IV leadership is lobbied by the ILLEGALS to the extent the forum now supports more illegal than legal.

Constructive criticism is always welcome but this is just too much baloney.

Administrator2

12-10-2010, 11:13 AM

I believe that LEGALs are frustrated. Waiting for a GC for 7-9 years will do that to you. However, I think that IV should target Republicans in addition to Dems because they are pro-business. Why don't we reach out to Jeff Chaffetz R-UT. Somebody mentioned on the forum that he did talk about backlogs for LEGALS on C-SPAN.

We have reached out to every potential supporter. Just because someone put a name on the forum doesn't mean that IV has already not reached out to that office.

Folks who oppose undocumented use the "legals" argument to oppose undocumented. They are usually not sincere in pushing for provisions for us. This is the oldest trick in the book. Sen. Sessions and Steve King have been using this trick for a long time. Its time we mature and get smart with the way we look at things instead of taking everything at its face value.

goel_ar

12-10-2010, 12:26 PM

If yes, then we can all get 10 year EAD. isn't ? :)

THE 10-YEAR WORK PERMITS FOR PEOPLE WHO DO NOT QUALIFY

1. Application: The DREAM amnesty begins with illegal aliens filling out applications. They merely have to claim -- not provide evidence -- that they meet criteria of having been brought to the U.S. before age 16 and being under the age of 30 at time of enactment and being present in the U.S. at least 5 years before enactment of the amnesty, among other criteria.

2. Work Permits Given: Once they allege these minimal criteria, the illegal aliens are given "conditional lawful permanent resident status" and are given a 10-year work permit to compete directly with the 22 million Americans who want a full-time job but can't find one.

Estimates suggest that up to 2 million illegal aliens could legitimately qualify for the opening application, and perhaps a couple million more might be or look young enough to fraudulently apply.

Those millions would immediately be able to legally compete for any U.S. job.

3. Ten Years of Work Before Education Required: Despite all the talk about how this amnesty is just for people who go to college or serve in the military, the illegal aliens don't have to do much of anything in that regard to have the legal right to work for 10 years.

Everybody who applies and gets the work permits has 10 years to complete two years of college or two years of military. Ten Years!

By the way, despite the fact that some media outlets have taken to referring to the potential recipients of the amnesty as "the best and the brightest" and "stars," illegal aliens can get the 10-year work permit merely by completing a GED and enrolling in a single course in a community college or trade school.

Administrator2

12-10-2010, 12:40 PM

GC_peshawa,

There are many like me who will answer questions of panicked people about how to navigate the complex immigration system but until IV can provide some concrete proof of what specifically it is doing, how exactly it is spending the money and what roadmap of progress it hopes to achieve and whether it is on its way to achieving it....Very difficult to think about making donations,

And this differentiating folks in the name of Donor forum which basically says No access and info to everyone who has spent time, effort on IV and completely goes against the "Change for fairness and Justice" is a step in the right direction, IV needs to give way to an actual movement that actually does something and this DONOR forum concept will certainly go a long way in the marginalization of this site and community. iV should focus on LEGAL immigration only. because most of us here are the Employment Based LEGAL immigrants is it not? This is only my view point.

IV is focused on EB legal immigration. Its just that if you overlook or if you are not privy to the behind the scenes politics, you will tend to not see though things in the real world perspective. There is more to this issue than what you know, and there is more to the politics you want to understand. The simply mind tends to then "blame" IV. Let me be clear, if you are sending messages or calling your lawmaker, you are not spending time on IV and you are not doing me or anyone else a favor, so please don't expect to be compensated.If you don't like donor forum concept, please start your own organization, travel to Washington, put in your money, time away from family and work and do things the way you think will work for you.

And, if you cant spare $25 for an issue that is holding back your life, if you can't put your money where your mouth is, if you do not want to spend time to understand the issue and politics, its not IV's fault.

Administrator2

12-10-2010, 12:41 PM

tonyHK12

12-10-2010, 01:08 PM

IV needs to give way to an actual movement that actually does something and this DONOR forum concept will certainly go a long way in the marginalization of this site and community. iV should focus on LEGAL immigration only. because most of us here are the Employment Based LEGAL immigrants is it not? This is only my view point.

Well its surprising that inspite of having waited almost 7 years for your green card, you couldn't even think of donating $25 to IV. But the freeloader decides to make the most ridiculous accusations and drag all other immigrants down just like a crab.
Well your statement about legal immigration also says, inspite of being on these forums for more than a year, you haven't understood the basics of politics and Bills. Not to mention you cannot even read or understand the earlier posts.
Well if you can't help other immigrants, stay away from these forums and create your own chatting website, and no one wants your opinion either.

snathan

12-10-2010, 01:17 PM

Dream Act has been around for more than 10 years now. People have lobbied heavily investing a lot of resources (many thousand times than the high skilled immigration groups) to push for their agenda. To add to the resources, beneficiaries of Dream act have consistently come out to speak with the lawmakers. Our sense is that folks in EB backlogs think that three mouse clicks to send an email is sufficient to get our provisions, and anything more is just pure waste of their time. We have not come out in sufficient large numbers to speak for the issue. And the proof is that no one is talking of SKIL bill or recapture and the Dream act passed in the House and it has the possibility of getting substantial votes in the Senate.

There is nothing to fear from the Dream act. A few here may think that it’s a zero sum game. And sometimes the general mind-set is that "If dream act is passing, it must be talking away something from me". Not true. The fact is that this is not a zero sum game. Although IV desperately wants recapture and other provisions in Dream Act or any other bill that can see our provisions through, IV would not oppose Dream Act even when it does not include the recapture provision. Some of the folks here may hate us for saying this, but that’s ok because it’s important for everyone to understand what we now understand. And even if you disagree, we are ok, because we understand that you have not had the opportunity to see the legislative process and how laws are made. The fact is, we have been waiting for something for last 5 years, and we have not seen any high-skilled provision pass because of the stalemate. If we oppose Dream Act, we could lose the support on our issues from the Senators seeking to pass the Dream Act. So, unlike anonymous individuals who can formulate any opinion or change opinion at anytime, as an organization IV do not have the luxury to oppose Dream Act, which has the support of over 50 Senators, because we know that opposing Dream Act will come back to haunt us later.

You, as an anonymous individual, can formulate and express any opinion, but remember, your expression of opposition will also not go unnoticed. Each Senate office keeps a tally of who opposed and who supported their pet issue. Why would you want to oppose something that will end up losing votes on your issue? That’s not very smart.

As Senator Bennett said today on the Senate floor, “the most important vote is the next one” which we can not afford to lose.

If we were to do this for rest of our lives then we can say things like:

But we do not want to continue to do this. We want things to get done so that we can go home, meaning, do other things. "Why should I pay for him" or "why should I pay for her" is just too much baloney from talk radio junk? Anyone can come up with justification to support or oppose anything under the sun. Our goal is to get things done. And if passing Dream act gets us closer to that goal, then so be it.

I dont have anything aginst undocumented or passing for the DREAM act. If I am correct, part of the bill is 'They can not increase the fee for processing'. My fear is if the USCIS can not increase the fee them they will come after us. Didnt they ask us to pay for border protection. Who is going to stop the USCIS increase the fee legal immigrants.

I am not supporting or opposing the DREAM act. But only

1. Cannot increase the fee.
2. Need to be processed in expedited manner.

This may not be there in the revised bill and I am not sure. Why they need to be given priority ahead of others in the line already.

sage2006

12-10-2010, 01:27 PM

Sakthisagar,
i think there are hundreds or thousands of folks here who are equally frustrated with the whole EB backlog issue.
However, I just cannot understand your outbursts here?!
I am no expert analyst but just based on the commentary and political debates going on out there - and that we hear in the news and print media - it is very clear to me that the reason why the DREAM Act is relevant to our case is that it is going to be a test of how much stomach the Congress has for any piecemeal Immgration-related legislation. If the DREAM Act passes, we can count on both the undocumented/Hispanic caucus as well as some "on-the-fence" legislators to support our cause going forward. This will give us at least some hope for EB legislation to be considered in the next Congress, if not now. If it fails, then we can completely forget about ANY piecemeal or CIR type of legislation Passing in the Congress for the next two years.

Regading your frustration about the Donor Forum, well thats a purely personal choice. if someone would rather spend their $25 on a plate of bhel puri, than so be it.

For me, IV is not a bank that is expected to provide a monthly "return" on my investment. I have known senior members here who have spent money out their pockets and flown to DC for a meeting with an administrator or a lawmaker. Just because they dont advertise it doesnt mean they are open to all out attacks.
I understand your frustration but, my friend, you are going about venting it out in a completely cuckoo way.

GC_peshawa,

There are many like me who will answer questions of panicked people about how to navigate the complex immigration system but until IV can provide some concrete proof of what specifically it is doing, how exactly it is spending the money and what roadmap of progress it hopes to achieve and whether it is on its way to achieving it....Very difficult to think about making donations,

And this differentiating folks in the name of Donor forum which basically says No access and info to everyone who has spent time, effort on IV and completely goes against the "Change for fairness and Justice" is a step in the right direction, IV needs to give way to an actual movement that actually does something and this DONOR forum concept will certainly go a long way in the marginalization of this site and community. iV should focus on LEGAL immigration only. because most of us here are the Employment Based LEGAL immigrants is it not? This is only my view point.

bobyal

12-10-2010, 01:44 PM

Now that we campaigned for the DREAM ACT, the congress has listened to us and passed the bill. Now is the time we should send another dose of campaigns to pass the bill in senate.

We can not go back and ask for more, as politicians have responded to our requests and passed the DREAM. They see that we want the DREAM act and they delivered it.

Please be generous and feel free to donate to the congress and senate member campaigns in 2012.

gk_2000

12-10-2010, 01:55 PM

I think you are a reasonable and educated person with clear understanding of the meaning of the word "donor". So I am not sure about the need to look it up in the dictionary.

What I am trying to say is, I made a contribution, but I am not being treated like a donor.

Just because you disagree with me doesn't make IV "undemocratic".

When did I say so? I said that dissenting/disagreeing posts are given red points by trolls. And you can see in this forum itself how people are treated.

When I say "undemocratic", I also mean that we should involve everyone in all aspects of the activities, making letters, proofing them, debating the points, the length, subject line, the words to use -- everything. We want to use all our resources to make effective letters

IV is democratic organization, just that you don't have a vote in the process and core team because you don't spend time and energy to participate in IV activities.

Fair enough. But I MIGHT participate more if I am given a chance to involve myself more. Making a contribution was my first step, and you should meet people like me halfway, and garner our continued participation

Like yourself, I also have a job and family to take care, besides working on IV as a volunteer. None of us in the core has time to give reds cards or green cards to anyone. Other members on the forum use it to express their support and opinion, maybe that is part of the democratic process which you seem to support, but at the same time don't like the system when you get red cards.

I never complained about the system of red/green. What I say is that trolls misuse this feature to clamp down differing opinions. You can observe this here and almost everywhere else if you are objective enough

StarSun

12-10-2010, 02:23 PM

My Question again I am asking. Hope you dont get the point yet.

There are many like me who will answer questions of panicked people about how to navigate the complex immigration system but until IV can provide some concrete proof of what specifically it is doing, how exactly it is spending the money and what roadmap of progress it hopes to achieve and whether it is on its way to achieving it....Very difficult to think about making donations,

Shaktisagar,
IV is not asking or demanding you to pay any money. If they are, you can complain. "If you wish to donate" please do. Most action items are out in the public forums - please work on them.

On another note, you were on a conference call with your lawmaker. Did you get a chance to talk about our issues? if not - did you follow up with him? And I am not diverting the topic - I am actually talking about a way for you to constructively impact this community.

Something to think about: are the current donors complaining about IV's intentions? or are they defending IV? What can be deduced from this thought?

Donor forum is a privilege and not a right. If you (or anyone) have questions, call me.

desi3933

12-10-2010, 02:27 PM

I do not have any frustration....

Yeah, right? Just read your posts again.

Success isn't built on success; it's built on failure, frustration and sometimes catastrophe. -- Sumner Redstone

.

tonyHK12

12-10-2010, 03:19 PM

Starsun,
by partitioning EB immigrants. as donors and non-donors, there should be no Privilege, People who really think do not buy the donor private thing since this is a non-profit organisation. IV should be more transperant to all.

Apparently you seem to have confused non-profit and a free organization. There is no privilege, everything costs money. You have at least 5-6 more years for a GC at least, and you think "you" are doing a favor to IV by donating!
You would rather eat bhel puri for 7 years instead.

Administrator2

12-10-2010, 03:44 PM

My Question again I am asking. Hope you dont get the point yet.

There are many like me who will answer questions of panicked people about how to navigate the complex immigration system but until IV can provide some concrete proof of what specifically it is doing, how exactly it is spending the money and what roadmap of progress it hopes to achieve and whether it is on its way to achieving it....Very difficult to think about making donations,

Maybe you are right. Maybe you have a roadmap which IV doesn't have. I would have said that you can see concrete proof if you travel to DC. But I will rather not go there because you are not serious about doing anything. You want me to come to your drawing room and show you concrete proof to convince you how effective I'm in spending my time for free for issues that affects you. Very Nice.

Why don't you start an organization and create a roadmap which everybody can follow?

Administrator2

12-10-2010, 03:54 PM

Starsun,

Nobody demanded money. GC_peshawa asked to consider donation, so I just answered him.

I spoke to the senators office and Congressmen office, followed up 7 times! for including our Visa re-capture along with Dream act. they all have the standard reply. The I specifically talked about S1085, then the reply I posted in the fourm. as you know already. Could not meet the senator yet. The conference call was an election campaign of the DNC, and it was only a one way communication. could not raise the issue because of that.

I know lot of donors are complaining too. they may not ask you directly.

by partitioning EB immigrants. as donors and non-donors, there should be no Privilege, People who really think do not buy the donor private thing since this is a non-profit organisation. IV should be more transperant to all.

Non-profit organization has nothing to do with donor/private/open forum area.

Again, if you are so dissatisfied with IV, why don't you start a new organization where you can keep things "more transparent". Lets see how you will do it?

tonyHK12

12-10-2010, 04:24 PM

This is not a clear answer, making or creating another more transparent organisation.. no free advise required. Again I repeat the question Mr.Adminstrator2..
OK nice, now a free member starts demanding things from IV. Do you want us to give you free money too?

IV can provide some concrete proof of what specifically it is doing, how exactly it is spending the money and what roadmap of progress it hopes to achieve and whether it is on its way to achieving it....Very difficult to think about making donations,

why are you asking this question? Its the Donors money not your money, and the Donors know what is being done.
I'm surprised the core and admin even bother replying to you.
An outsider has no business knowing how IV handles its money.

The results for each campaign is hidden from the EB public. Until that is cleared no further talks.

The donors know about it. don't talk you are free to leave

forever_waiting

12-10-2010, 05:08 PM

So many people here have brought this up but you dont seem to realize that you are acting like a kid?? Grow up buddy!
If you think that you are some sort of revolutionary trying to bring about accountability...well you are just looking silly in the end.
We have a handful of people actually spending their own time and efforts to understand the politics of immigration and then we have armchair critics like you who demand accountability for nothing.
Stop distracting people from the main subject and do something worthwhile instead of making yourself look more and more stupid.

This is not a clear answer, making or creating another more transparent organisation.. no free advise required. Again I repeat the question Mr.Adminstrator2..

IV can provide some concrete proof of what specifically it is doing, how exactly it is spending the money and what roadmap of progress it hopes to achieve and whether it is on its way to achieving it....Very difficult to think about making donations,

The results for each campaign is hidden from the EB public. Until that is cleared no further talks. The DREAM ACT Visa-recapture campaign did not reach the senators as it was supposed to be. All the senators we sent email, Including The President thought this was a part of DREAM ACT campaign.

tonyHK12

12-10-2010, 05:46 PM

IV can provide some concrete proof of what specifically it is doing, how exactly it is spending the money and what roadmap of progress it hopes to achieve and whether it is on its way to achieving it....Very difficult to think about making donations,
.

And Mr. Sakthisagar, since you have met lawmakers, I can even donate a one time of $25 to IV on your behalf, if you can convince admins and core that you are not an anti-immigrant or rogue user who spends all his time bashing IV. Also send all your details to them.
Who knows with what benefit it may bring to you.
That's how minuscule the Donor access funding is. Yes, I'm just an average middle class immigrant

gk_2000

12-10-2010, 06:08 PM

I should also get a donor status because I am contributing posts on the forum? :D
I won't wallow in mud with pig. I WONT

No you shoud get donor status for researching the meaning of donor in the online dictionary :D
make that "pigs"

Guess you got answers to most of your questions. why are you worried about reds. The admins or IV don't need to give you reds,
any new person or member can create an account in 1 minute and give anyone reds.

That probably explains the 46000 members. Now no one should complain that the 46000 people should each contribute i$ etc

Well I don't want to speak for the core, but its also impractical to answer questions from 46000 members.
And if you are not a Donor, there's no way of verifying you're not from some place like 'IT grunt'

FYI: I am a person known to people that matter

well you talked about Democracy - why don't you join a State chapter and take part in conference calls. we have a democratic process of listening to every ones opinions in our campaigns. Of course we can't listen to an anonymous anti-immigrant on the forum.
You called me anti-immigrant? Maybe I am anti, against the would-be immigrants who troll here

Any IV member who has any frustration with IV leadership, please call me at 202-386-5260.

If you would like for me to call you (and I have been trying to reach as many as possible), please update your profile to reflect the correct ph number and email. You can also reach me at ivcoordinator@gmail.com

Sure, I appreciate it.

tonyHK12

12-10-2010, 06:15 PM

You called me anti-immigrant? Maybe I am anti, against the would-be immigrants who troll here
No I just made a general statement about rogue users, Since StarSun has spoken to you, I'm sure they're listening to your comments.
Don't worry about the reds, some online forum users just tend to pick fights with everybody instead of contributing to advocacy.

bobyal

12-11-2010, 10:03 AM

Administrator2

12-11-2010, 10:35 AM

Let us work on the unfinished job to get the DREAM ACT passed. Any ideas on drafting an email for senators? This time let us mention that Senate pass the same version of the bill as in Congress. This will ensure smooth/quick signing of the DREAM ACT.

Hope the DREAM ACT passage will make the IV members (??) happy and excited, as we achieved something in immigration area.

Start your organization and draft your letter to Senators if you disagree with IV. We will also get a chance to learn from you.

Did it ever occur to you that just sending email is probably less than 1% of the advocacy. Just being keyboard tigers and saying absurd things about a group of people working to fix your issues is pretty dumb thing, don't you think? Did you spend your money and spend your time away from family and work to speak to lawmakers and policy makers in DC for your issues? If you have not, we don't think you have have a moral standing to tell us that we are not doing a good job.

You seem to think that everything you know is all that is there to know. You seem to believe that you know everything that is there to know about EB provisions. So you can just throw out bull crap on others. I personally think that this is a sign of feeble mind because not only you don't want to work on issues affecting you, you also do not want to listen to those who most likely seem to know more than you on this subject, maybe just because they have spent more time on solutions to your issues.

sage2006

12-11-2010, 12:33 PM

Thanks for the advice.
And now I am sure you will vanish away for a few months hoping several miracles will happen and everyting will get done since you have done your job of stating our objectives and goals.
Typical of the several armchair critics on this forum. We have lots of advisors and critics but few to work on implement the initiatives.
Contact the coordinator to learn how to actually get involved in teh various IV groups/initiatives.

Let us work on the unfinished job to get the DREAM ACT passed. Any ideas on drafting an email for senators? This time let us mention that Senate pass the same version of the bill as in Congress. This will ensure smooth/quick signing of the DREAM ACT.

Hope the DREAM ACT passage will make the IV members (??) happy and excited, as we achieved something in immigration area.