ITIN Holders: Apply for a Social Security Number without a work visa

[Totoro]

Below is part of a message I posted in another discussion, but this deserves it own discussion. If you are a legal resident of the US, such as an H4, even if you are a child, and you have an ITIN, you can get a Social Security Number, because that is the only way to get the Economic Stimulus Payment.

Be forewarned that the SSA will put up road blocks. You will likely be denied your first application. However, the law is clear and there is no cost to apply. You also have a right to appeal. A cover letter explaining why you have a RIGHT to a Social Security Number will help support your case. You letter should refer to the laws and statutes cited below.

The only way to get the stimulus payment is to obtain a Social Security Number for "non-work" purposes. The SSA may issue an SSN to an alien under the following provision:

20 C.F.R. § 422.104(a)(3)

(i) You need a social security number to satisfy a Federal statute or regulation that requires you to have a social security number in order to receive a Federally-funded benefit to which you have otherwise established entitlement and you reside either in or outside the U.S.;

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/422/422-0104.htm

The Social Security Administration is required by federal law to issue Social Security Numbers to legal aliens who require them to receive federally funded benefits under Section 205(c)(2)(B)(i)(II) of the Social Security Act, which states that the Social Security Administration is required to assign an SSN to "any individual who is an applicant for or recipient of a benefit funded in whole or in part with Federal funds."

Here are some documents from official Senate and House websites (senate.gov, house.gov), which refer to the stimulus payment as a benefit. Print these out and attach them to your application.


Lawmakers


Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House



"Residents of the U.S. territories will also receive the benefit."



Johnny Isakson, United States Senator from Georgia



The benefit would phase out for single people earning more than $75,000 a year and married couples earning more than $150,000.



Johnson (GA04) | Press Release | Rep. Johnson Votes to Stimulate Economy



Americans who earned at least $3,000 in 2007 will receive the benefit, including Social Security recipients and 250,000 disabled veterans. Higher income taxpayers are not eligible and the relief phases out above incomes of $75,000 for a single earner and $150,000 for married couples.



Senator Robert Menendez | Newsroom



"Today's event is a chance to spread the word so that everyone is aware of the steps they need to take to receive this benefit."



News | Senator Pete V. Domenici



This benefit would help an estimated 20 million seniors and 250,000 disabled veterans.



EconomicStimulus2008



The 2008 tax instructions will include a worksheet to help those who did not qualify for a payment or those who received a reduced amount determine if they can obtain a benefit when they file their 2008 tax returns next year.



Senate Finance Committee



020808 Econ Stim Staff Summary.pdf (application/pdf Object)



The amount of the credit is phased out at a rate of 5% of adjusted gross income beginning at $75,000 ($150,000 in the case of joint returns). Residents of the U.S. possessions will also receive the benefit…





The law also clearly states that qualified recipients of this benefit must have social security numbers to receive these funds. No other identification number is considered permissible. SEC. 6428 (h) (2) "Identification Number Requirement" states, "For purposes of paragraph (1), the term `valid identification number' means a social security number issued to an individual by the Social Security Administration. Such term shall not include a TIN issued by the Internal Revenue Service."

According to SSA document 20 CFR Part 422 [Reg. No. 22] RIN 0960-AF05 Evidence Requirements for Assignment of Social Security Numbers (SSNs); Assignment of SSNs for Nonwork Purposes, a "valid non-work purpose" results when the "law requires an alien who is legally in the U.S. to have an SSN in order to receive general public assistance benefits (i.e., a public benefit that is means-tested) to which the alien has established Entitlement."

The means-testing provision of H.R. 5140, the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 is stated in SEC. 6428 (d) Limitation Based on Adjusted Gross Income.

The federal government has also defined H.R. 5140 as a form of financial relief to persons who fall within certain income categories. According to a Whitehouse publication explaining the means-testing provision of H.R. 5140, "This relief would be available to everyone with adjusted gross income less than $75,000 for singles and $150,000 for married couples filing jointly. It will be phased out for taxpayers above those income thresholds. Taxpayers may qualify by filing a tax return for 2007 and including a valid Social Security number on their tax return." [Fact Sheet: Bipartisan Growth Package Will Help Protect Our Nation's Economic Health, Office of the Press Secretary, February 13, 2008, whitehouse.gov].

Lawmakers included the identification requirements to HR.5140 under the belief that all legal residents of the United States will hold Social Security numbers. Therefore, it is incumbent upon the Commissioner of Social Security to "take affirmative measures to assure that social security account numbers will, to the maximum extent practicable, be assigned to all members of appropriate groups or categories of individuals by assigning such numbers" [Section 205(c)(2)(B)(i)] and that all qualified individuals receive "financial relief" under H.R. 5140 according to the stated will and intention of the United States Congress and Senate (as described in the links above).

[mshelat]

This is really an intersting and very important information for people on H1B wih H4 dependents. Is there any one who has inquired about this with SSA? I am planning to do it next week and shall inform the forum.

[lelica32]

Hi Totoro,

please be so kind and explain me what exactly shall I say to the SSN Office about why I apply for SSN non-work. If they ask me to proof that I need a SSN to get Economic Stimulus Payment, what shell I do??
How is posible to get a SSN non-work to get Economic Stimulus Payment if you didn't work. How can you make tax return without to work. ?? Sorry for all this question but I really don't understand. But i'm shure that you will be very nice and you will explain me how it's work.

Thank you,

lelica

[ghouse1742]

This is just beautiful. THANK YOU !!!. I will defintely look into this. This looks very promising to me. Like me there are lot of my friends who have their spouses on ITIN for their own reasons and would not have received a single penny. Thanks again for posting this information.

[Totoro]

Hi Totoro,

please be so kind and explain me what exactly shall I say to the SSN Office about why I apply for SSN non-work. If they ask me to proof that I need a SSN to get Economic Stimulus Payment, what shell I do??
How is posible to get a SSN non-work to get Economic Stimulus Payment if you didn't work. How can you make tax return without to work. ?? Sorry for all this question but I really don't understand. But i'm shure that you will be very nice and you will explain me how it's work.

Thank you,

lelica

As long as you qualify for the stimulus payment, you can get a non-work SSN. You qualify as long as you are in the income levels specified, were a resident of the US in 2007 (substantial presence), and were in the US legally (have a valid visa). If you did not file a tax return, then you cannot apply for the SSN.

As far as the Social Security Act is concerned, the law states that they MUST give you a SSN if you qualify for any federally funded benefit. The question is: Is the Economic Stimulus Payment a federal funded benefit. The information in my original post makes a very strong case that it is.

Please post your experiences here, even if you are denied. Remember, the folks in the local SSA offices are bureaucrats, not lawyers, or judges, so don't expect much cooperation. However, if they deny you application, simply write them a short letter saying that you disagree and that you are requesting a "reconsideration."

[pkv]

I receive the standard IRS letter regarding stimulus rebate.
I took this letter and went to SSA office to apply for a SSN for my wife.
Point number 3 in ss-5 clearly says .....

"If you check "Legal Alien Not Allowed to Work," you must provide a document from a U.S. Federal, State, or local government agency that explains why you need a Social Security number and that you meet all of the requirements for the U.S. government benefit. NOTE: Not all U.S. State or local benefits are acceptable for non-work SSN purposes. Contact SSA to see if your reason qualifies.
If you check "Other," you must provide a document from the U.S. government agency that explains why you need a Social Security number and that you meet all of the requirements for a Federal benefit except for the number."

I believe that IRS letter should be treated as a sufficient reason for need of SSN. BUT THEY DIDN'T ENTERTAIN ANY OF THE FACTS AND DECLINED TO ACCEPT APPLICATION FOR SSN.





As long as you qualify for the stimulus payment, you can get a non-work SSN. You qualify as long as you are in the income levels specified, were a resident of the US in 2007 (substantial presence), and were in the US legally (have a valid visa). If you did not file a tax return, then you cannot apply for the SSN.

As far as the Social Security Act is concerned, the law states that they MUST give you a SSN if you qualify for any federally funded benefit. The question is: Is the Economic Stimulus Payment a federal funded benefit. The information in my original post makes a very strong case that it is.

Please post your experiences here, even if you are denied. Remember, the folks in the local SSA offices are bureaucrats, not lawyers, or judges, so don't expect much cooperation. However, if they deny you application, simply write them a short letter saying that you disagree and that you are requesting a "reconsideration."

[Totoro]

I receive the standard IRS letter regarding stimulus rebate.
I took this letter and went to SSA office to apply for a SSN for my wife.
Point number 3 in ss-5 clearly says .....

"If you check "Legal Alien Not Allowed to Work," you must provide a document from a U.S. Federal, State, or local government agency that explains why you need a Social Security number and that you meet all of the requirements for the U.S. government benefit. NOTE: Not all U.S. State or local benefits are acceptable for non-work SSN purposes. Contact SSA to see if your reason qualifies.
If you check "Other," you must provide a document from the U.S. government agency that explains why you need a Social Security number and that you meet all of the requirements for a Federal benefit except for the number."

I believe that IRS letter should be treated as a sufficient reason for need of SSN. BUT THEY DIDN'T ENTERTAIN ANY OF THE FACTS AND DECLINED TO ACCEPT APPLICATION FOR SSN.

They cannot refuse to accept your application. Fill in the forms and send them in. They can deny your application and then you can appeal. If they refuse to accept the application, you have two options. You can contact your congressman and complain. You can file a discrimination complaint with the SSA ombudsman. Here is the discrimination form.

https://ssa.gov/online/ssa-437.pdf

Finally, if you believe you have been denied your rights because you are an immigrant, you can contact your local ACLU and ask them to represent your case. As a last resort, you can file a lawsuit at the federal district court. The filing fee for this is $350. However, I hope we are all doing this to exercise our rights rather than for the money. At least that is my motivation.

In my case, the first time I called, the person hung up on me. But I did not give up. I got them to accept the application and it is currently under reconsideration. I was also able to get a response from the Regional Office. So far they have not addressed any of the points I made in the original case as described in the OP. I expect they will continue to ignore their own laws and regulations, until I appeal this to an administrative judge, who will make a legal ruling.

BTW: All this costs you nothing but your time.

[kalyan]

I think we can work as a Group on this Issue. I am ready to lead or Join this Group.

We can file in Court if required as a Group to get a greater exposure and success.

Least but not last, the contributions can be very very minimum. We can get more people join this site in less time with this issue.

Requesting IV core team to advise on it.

Thanks

[Totoro]

I think we can work as a Group on this Issue. I am ready to lead or Join this Group.

We can file in Court if required as a Group to get a greater exposure and success.

Least but not last, the contributions can be very very minimum. We can get more people join this site in less time with this issue.

Requesting IV core team to advise on it.

Thanks

That is exactly what I am thinking. There are laws to protect immigrants from discrimination. I believe this clause was added to the Social Security Act to protect us in situations exactly like this one.

Also, I am glad to have become involved in this as it has led me to great immigration resources like IV, which I would not have known about otherwise.

[mshelat]

I went to SSA office today and they did not accept the application. I had all the necessary paperwork such as SSA guidenace on Non-Work Purpose SSN, Letter from IRS (one that every taxpayer got informing about Economic Stumulus Package) and FAQ regarding Basic Eligibility and ITIN for Economic Stimulus Pakcage from IRS website.

They simply refused to accept the application. This is unacceptable as I do not think lawmakers envisaged such a situation when they announced plans for Economic Stimulus Package.

[bluekayal]

Lets work as a group.

[Totoro]

I went to SSA office today and they did not accept the application. I had all the necessary paperwork such as SSA guidenace on Non-Work Purpose SSN, Letter from IRS (one that every taxpayer got informing about Economic Stumulus Package) and FAQ regarding Basic Eligibility and ITIN for Economic Stimulus Pakcage from IRS website.

They simply refused to accept the application. This is unacceptable as I do not think lawmakers envisaged such a situation when they announced plans for Economic Stimulus Package.

Of course it is unacceptable. They cannot refuse to accept an application. How can they review your case if they wont accept your application. That is a violation of your rights. The only reason they refused your application is that you are an immigrant. You can therefore file a discrimination complaint against them using the form I attached in my earlier post. Also, contact your congressman and/or senator. They usually have a constituency services department that handles cases like these. If you want to PM me, I can help you with the specifics.

[smmakani]

I am in as well if you guys want to do something in group. Also let us all know if someone got the SSN for this reason.

[pkv]

I was told that people on H4 are not eligible for SSN, and if I want she (the person on counter in ssa office) can issue me a denial letter for that. It sounded useless to me that time, so I didn't bother to get that letter.

This idea sounds good to me, I'll go to SSA office again and try to apply. Offcourse they will say that they can't accept application. So I'll get a denial letter and I can appeal against that.



They cannot refuse to accept your application. Fill in the forms and send them in. They can deny your application and then you can appeal. If they refuse to accept the application, you have two options. You can contact your congressman and complain. You can file a discrimination complaint with the SSA ombudsman. Here is the discrimination form.

https://ssa.gov/online/ssa-437.pdf

Finally, if you believe you have been denied your rights because you are an immigrant, you can contact your local ACLU and ask them to represent your case. As a last resort, you can file a lawsuit at the federal district court. The filing fee for this is $350. However, I hope we are all doing this to exercise our rights rather than for the money. At least that is my motivation.

In my case, the first time I called, the person hung up on me. But I did not give up. I got them to accept the application and it is currently under reconsideration. I was also able to get a response from the Regional Office. So far they have not addressed any of the points I made in the original case as described in the OP. I expect they will continue to ignore their own laws and regulations, until I appeal this to an administrative judge, who will make a legal ruling.

BTW: All this costs you nothing but your time.

[mshelat]

As I was explained SSA do not classify Economic Stimumus Package as a Federal Benefit. For them Federal benefit is a recurring payment of certain amount and the Stimulus package is just one off.

Also, we should try and get our message across to IRS about dependents who can not have SSN due to the nature of visas issued (H4). IRS should update their system so that if first person filing the return has valid SSN, payment should be calculated as it would be if everyone has SSN. This would be lot more easy then issuing SSN and then filing 2008 returns with those SSNs.

Any thoughts/ feedback?

[Ramba]

As I was explained SSA do not classify Economic Stimumus Package as a Federal Benefit. For them Federal benefit is a recurring payment of certain amount and the Stimulus package is just one off.

Also, we should try and get our message across to IRS about dependents who can not have SSN due to the nature of visas issued (H4). IRS should update their system so that if first person filing the return has valid SSN, payment should be calculated as it would be if everyone has SSN. This would be lot more easy then issuing SSN and then filing 2008 returns with those SSNs.

Any thoughts/ feedback?

Understandable that Economic Stimumus Package is not a federal recuring benefit. However, ITIN holders (H4s) are eligible to claim child tax credit, why not this stiumuls benefit?. They should be given this benefit if they meet residency requirement. One should contact IRS to include ITIN holders to clain this benefit.

[nixstor]

Here is a web page that lists IRS media contacts (http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=97242,00.html) and they respond pretty quickly.

[Totoro]

Understandable that Economic Stimumus Package is not a federal recuring benefit. However, ITIN holders (H4s) are eligible to claim child tax credit, why not this stiumuls benefit?. They should be given this benefit if they meet residency requirement. One should contact IRS to include ITIN holders to clain this benefit.

The IRS cannot make exceptions, since it is written in the law. However, the Social Security Act does not say that the benefit has to be recurring. I did get a reply today from the SSA. They claim the stimulus payment is a tax rebate, not a benefit. However, it cannot be a tax rebate, since the law was written to allow people with no income to apply for the check. There are even instructions on the IRS website that explain how people with no income can apply for the check. I am in the process of getting the opinion of an attorney. I will update you soon.

One last thing. I recommend that any discussions you have with the SSA be in writing. The SSA manager wanted to discuss this with me over the phone, but I insisted on written correspondence, because that is the only proof you have if this ever goes to litigation. The documents I have gotten so far already contain errors and contradictions that could be helpful in a legal case.

[Totoro]

Here is a web page that lists IRS media contacts (http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=97242,00.html) and they respond pretty quickly.

The media contacts are for press inquiries. I do recommend that everyone contacts his or her local news organizations though. Not many people are aware of this.

[elliptic]

I tried to apply for the SSN for my wife and my child about 6 weeks ago.

As expected, the officer refused even to accept the application ("H4 don't get
SSNs"). I would have submitted the application by mail, but this is not
possible since I have to show my passport to prove that I am legaly in the
country. I insisted that I have a legal reason to apply and even if she thinks
this is not a legal reason, they have to accept the application.

The head of the local office finally accepted the applications. I was told
that the regional office thinks that the Stimulus Payment is not a federal benefit.

One week later the application was declined. The reason given was
that "the SSA doesn't issue SSNs for tax purposes." I had included with
my application a cover letter with the relevant parts of the law and why I
think the SSA should issue the SSNs.

I will now ask for reconsideration. If the SSNs are still declined, I am not sure
about the legal process. Normally, there are two more levels before
a social security case goes to court. One can ask for reconsideration
by an administrative law judge. I think this doesn't cost anything for me,
but I am not sure if this also applies to cases like applying for SSNs.
(Usually it is about the payment of benefits.)

There seems to exist something like a legal definition of federal benefits
(see Wikipedia). I am not sure if the Stimulus Payment would satisfy
this definition and if this definition is the one used in the social security act.

To bring the case to court is quite useless since when the case is decided,
it is to late. One needs the SSN in 2008.

[Totoro]

I am working on this with some lawyers, so be patient. The Stimulus payment is a benefit, regardless of what the SSA says, but you don't need to do anything else now. Just keep any communications you have with them in case you need to refer to them later. You do not need to have an SSN in 2008, since you can apply for the stimulus payment in 2009 if you did not get it in 2008. This rule is posted on the IRS website. I also have significant documentation the PROVES this is a benefit, in addition to the material I posted in the OP.

From the Wikipedia article that you referred to:

Federal Benefits
The transfer of money, property, services, or anything of value, the principal purpose of which is to accomplish a public purpose of support or stimulation authorized by Federal statute,…and includes, but is not limited to, grants, loans, loan guarantees, scholarships, mortgage loans, insurance…, property, technical assistance, counseling, statistical, and other expert information; and service activities of regulatory agencies.

Also, the SSA defines a benefit as follows:

20 CFR Part 422 [Reg. No. 22] RIN 0960-AF05 Evidence Requirements for Assignment of Social Security Numbers (SSNs); Assignment of SSNs for Nonwork Purposes, a "valid non-work purpose" results when the "law requires an alien who is legally in the U.S. to have an SSN in order to receive general public assistance benefits (i.e., a public benefit that is means-tested) to which the alien has established Entitlement."

I have a ton of documentation to support our case, but I don't want to post it here until I have had a chance to discuss our strategy with the lawyers who are working on this.

Please do not refer to the stimulus payment as a rebate in any communications you have. It is not a rebate, which implies the return of money paid. Many people who earn no taxable income can apply for the stimulus payment. This makes it different from any tax scheme. The fact that the IRS administers the program does not prove that it is a tax program. Moreover, official IRS documents refer to the stimulus payment as a benefit similar to food stamps, not a rebate.

[kalyan]

If your planning to go to Court, then gather the names from every body.

I will contribute my buck and names for this.

[Totoro]

If your planning to go to Court, then gather the names from every body.

I will contribute my buck and names for this.

It is a little early for that. I was told the lawyers reviewing this case will get back to me shortly. I will let you know as soon as I hear anything.

[9411b]

A couple of months ago, when I realised that my son who is on H4 with ITIN was not qualified for $300 under the stimulus program, I felt bad, not really for the 300 bucks. Instead, I felt strongly that my son is discriminated for his immigration status for which he has no control at all, he is only 12 years old. As father of 3 (two youngsters born in US), I love them all, equally, regardless of immigraton status. Certainly, this stimulus program does not.

As such, I contacted VA chapter of ALCU, who replied that there are just so many injustice in the world, and they could not help anything, however, they offered paid service if I like to go further. I did not bother to contact them anymore.

I received the payment under the program a couple of days ago. I did not tell my son that he did not get anything, since I do not want to make him upset or plant a seed of badwill in the mind of my son.

Thank you for great job to fight for your right, and the right of those on the same boat. I am with you.

J

[elliptic]

You do not need to have an SSN in 2008, since you can apply for the stithmulus payment in 2009 if you did not get it in 2008. This rule is posted on the IRS website.


The IRS webpage is saying something different. It makes it clear that you need the
SSN in 2008. (Second and last question on
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=181995,00.html)


Please do not refer to the stimulus payment as a rebate in any communications you have. It is not a rebate, which implies the return of money paid. Many people who earn no taxable income can apply for the stimulus payment. This makes it different from any tax scheme. The fact that the IRS administers the program does not prove that it is a tax program.


This is what I did. But the argument is not strong. The same applies to the
additional child tax credit. I got more money back then I paid, i.e., I had to
pay a negative amount of federal tax :-) (So this country is so mad that it
gives me an H1-visa for working and in addition pays me some money
for staying here.)

Anyhow, the IRS seems to offer a solution now:

Q. If I have a spouse with an ITIN and therefore choose "married filing separately"
status to qualify for the economic stimulus payment and later on amend my
original return to "married filing jointly" status, will I need to return the
stimulus payment?

A. No. [New 4/14/08]

Unfortunately, I filed already in January before there was a stimulus law.

Should I amend my 2007 return now, then file my 2008 return, and then amend
my 2007 return again??? As reason I give to circumvent a stupid law.

[Totoro]

The IRS webpage is saying something different. It makes it clear that you need the
SSN in 2008. (Second and last question on
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=181995,00.html)

.

Q. If I currently have an ITIN and file my return but later this year get an SSN, can I amend my return to get the payment or will I need to wait until I file my 2008 return to claim it?

A. You will need to wait until you file your 2008 income tax return to claim the economic stimulus payment. [New 4/14/08]

You file your 2008 return in 2009.

[elliptic]

H1-visa holders with H4-spouses and children are not the only victims
of the SSN requirement:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24567987

(And serveral other newspaper. It is an AP story)

Unfortunately, the article doesn't mention the problem with the SSA.

-------------

It seems this was discussed already in other threads.

[elliptic]

A. You will need to wait until you file your 2008 income tax return to claim the economic stimulus payment. [New 4/14/08]

You file your 2008 return in 2009.

This I understand. But one needs the SSN already in 2008 as mentioned in
the sentence which you quoted. This makes sense: The 2008 tax can only
depend on your status in 2008. One has to qualify for the benefit in 2008.

[am100]

My wife moved from H4 to H1 in June 2007 and obtained her SSN at the same time. We used her new SSN to file our returns in March this year. However, no sign of the stimulus package yet. Wonder how is our case being considered. Thoughts?

[dslamba]

Hey everyone,
If there is any progress on this please let everyone know. I also tried and was refused by the SSA for my wife's SSN.

I would be willing to contribute in any way possible in this case... and that's not just for the money. I feel the spouses on H4 visa are heavily discriminated against.

Digvijay

[munnu77]

My wife moved from H4 to H1 in June 2007 and obtained her SSN at the same time. We used her new SSN to file our returns in March this year. However, no sign of the stimulus package yet. Wonder how is our case being considered. Thoughts?

I have same case..i got it..u ll get it for sure

[Totoro]

I just got off the phone with some lawyers on this. It looks like a strong case so far. They will be discussing it with their director and possibly getting some other law firms or organizations involved. That is all I can say for now. I will update you when I know more.

[bobby12]

I just found out that I will not be getting the stimulus as my wife is cannot get a SSN. In addition, we will not be getting stimulus amount for our American born daughter.

We have been here for a year and a half and while there are some benefits to being in America, my wife and I are trying hard to understand why we moved here from Canada (saving taxes is no benefit when compared to having to deal with ignorance all around). My being here is benefiting an American company (which did not have the expertise that I brought to them and this country) and thereby this country.

If I were to leave the company, a number of people would lose their jobs and I would take my expertise somewhere else.....

Is it true that almost everything done in America is poorly planned and lacks foresight and common sense? Our experience here to date is giving us this impression.....

I would be interested in joining with others against the IDIOTS who don't understand who is benefitting this country.

[mshelat]

I just got off the phone with some lawyers on this. It looks like a strong case so far. They will be discussing it with their director and possibly getting some other law firms or organizations involved. That is all I can say for now. I will update you when I know more.


Good work Totoro. Keep it up. My interview got to a large number of newspapers.

[snakesrocks]

I just found out that I will not be getting the stimulus as my wife is cannot get a SSN. In addition, we will not be getting stimulus amount for our American born daughter.

We have been here for a year and a half and while there are some benefits to being in America, my wife and I are trying hard to understand why we moved here from Canada (saving taxes is no benefit when compared to having to deal with ignorance all around). My being here is benefiting an American company (which did not have the expertise that I brought to them and this country) and thereby this country.

If I were to leave the company, a number of people would lose their jobs and I would take my expertise somewhere else.....

Is it true that almost everything done in America is poorly planned and lacks foresight and common sense? Our experience here to date is giving us this impression.....

I would be interested in joining with others against the IDIOTS who don't understand who is benefitting this country.

I totally agree with you. I came from Canada too and my wife went to college here, got her nursing degree and RN. Not able to file for GC because of the mess. She is working in an industry which has high demand and lack of people. Health care will be worst for those American baby boomers. Waiting for my kids to go to college ( 4 more years ) and move back to Canada.

Came to USA only for kids higher education.

Anyone interested in joining the group to get SSN for the ITIN holders?

[Totoro]

Good work Totoro. Keep it up. My interview got to a large number of newspapers.

Thanks for doing this.

I was interviewed by a reporter from the LA Times yesterday, so expect more articles to follow.

[snathan]

Thanks for doing this.

I was interviewed by a reporter from the LA Times yesterday, so expect more articles to follow.

Do you have any contact details for this person. I dont mind for any interview in this regard. I fully support you on this...

[Chiwere]

Just confirmed from IRS website I would not be getting the stimulus payment as wife is on ITIN. Missed out on the July stampede last year to get rid of the abominal H4. Looks like groups like FAIR have to engaged head on if any benefits to immigrants(any variety) are to be realized.

[whiteStallion]

I also missed out the stimulus payment due to my wife's ITIN. Bollocks to FAIR...

[Totoro]

I also missed out the stimulus payment due to my wife's ITIN. Bollocks to FAIR...

Hopefully we can make it backfire on them.

[gcdreamer05]

Great work toro , the article was very good...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24567987/page/2/

So do we have any update on this, will it be possible to get SSN for H4 dependents?

[Totoro]

Great work toro , the article was very good...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24567987/page/2/

So do we have any update on this, will it be possible to get SSN for H4 dependents?

So far things are looking good, but I have been instructed to not discuss any specifics until the lawyers have reviewed all the information. I should know more next week. I also received a call yesterday from a congressional office, but I was unavailable to take the call. We'll see what happens.

[mshelat]

let's keep working on it.

[Totoro]

let's keep working on it.

Actually, it was published in every major paper in the US, as well as in India, China, Canada, and a number of other countries. It was this broad coverage that led to the New York Times editorial. I have also seen mention of it on several news TV channels. And more is to come. The LA Times will be doing a story very soon.

[mshelat]

Actually, it was published in every major paper in the US, as well as in India, China, Canada, and a number of other countries. It was this broad coverage that led to the New York Times editorial. I have also seen mention of it on several news TV channels. And more is to come. The LA Times will be doing a story very soon.

What end result you think would be?

[Totoro]

What end result you think would be?

There are several benefits to media coverage.

You create awareness and build alliances.
You give the other party (in this case congress) an opportunity to correct the problem.
You get reporters to do additional investigate work that may help you build a case (This has already happened).
You have an opportunity to correct public misconceptions, such as that all ITIN filers are illegal aliens, and thereby reduce the chance that the public will support such action in the future.

[mshelat]

There are several benefits to media coverage.

You create awareness and build alliances.
You give the other party (in this case congress) an opportunity to correct the problem.
You get reporters to do additional investigate work that may help you build a case (This has already happened).
You have an opportunity to correct public misconceptions, such as that all ITIN filers are illegal aliens, and thereby reduce the chance that the public will support such action in the future.


Wikipedia also has good interpretation of rebate and ITIN. It clearly mentions

"Taxpayers who filed their returns jointly are not eligible for payment if any of the persons on the tax return filed with an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) instead of a social security number.[4] For example, if a family of five had one parent with an ITIN, no money is payable to any member of the family, including US citizens with valid social security numbers.[7] As a result, many legal resident aliens and overseas military families will not receive any payment. US citizens who will not receive payments include those who have a parent or spouse who is not a citizen and who does not qualify for a social security number (not authorized to work in the United States). [8] US citizens may amend their tax returns to file separately, but in most cases this results in a lower deduction for dependents, thereby canceling any benefit from the stimulus payment. In many cases, it is better to forgo the stimulus payment than to file an amended tax return.[9] At least one million legal residents and tens of thousands of troops were affected by the law, which was designed to keep illegal immigrants from getting stimulus checks. [10]"

Wikipedia understands situation better than some of the lawmakers.

[Totoro]

Wikipedia understands situation better than some of the lawmakers.


That is why we need to educate lawmakers, instead of letting hate groups like FAIR influence them with lies.

http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=295

[canada1]

This is yet another example of how the US is happy to tax us and let us finance Social Security, then place us in a similar category to "illegal aliens" when it suits them. Please give results on any legal redress as soon as you have them, as I will join also. I have already written to Congressman Chris Van Hollen of Maryland about this.

[Chiwere]

The text for HR 5140 Economic Stimulus Act 2008 has the following eligibility criteria:-

ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL- The term `eligible individual' means any individual other than--

(A) any nonresident alien individual,
(B) any individual with respect to whom a deduction under section 151 is allowable to another taxpayer for a taxable year beginning in the calendar year in which the individual's taxable year begins, and
(C) an estate or trust.

Full text at:-
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:21:./temp/~c110hrzxe1:e1660:

Have to track down the ITIN rule pushed by FAIR and who all voted for it. It is amazing that xenophobes such as FAIR can get an amendment in so quickly and under the radar. Perhaps CHC should be focusing on them rather killing any immigration reform short of amnesty.

[Totoro]

The text for HR 5140 Economic Stimulus Act 2008 has the following eligibility criteria:-

ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL- The term `eligible individual' means any individual other than--

(A) any nonresident alien individual,
(B) any individual with respect to whom a deduction under section 151 is allowable to another taxpayer for a taxable year beginning in the calendar year in which the individual's taxable year begins, and
(C) an estate or trust.

Full text at:-
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:21:./temp/~c110hrzxe1:e1660:

Have to track down the ITIN rule pushed by FAIR and who all voted for it. It is amazing that xenophobes such as FAIR can get an amendment in so quickly and under the radar. Perhaps CHC should be focusing on them rather killing any immigration reform short of amnesty.

Votes are here:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2008-10

The amendment was sponsored by Senator Ensign (R-Nevada) who said his staff discovered that the stimulus payments would go to illegal aliens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSXqiyqLVd4

In reality, the change was the result of lobbying by FAIR, an anti-immigrant group:

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...ter_friendly=1

FAIR is accused of having ties to White Supremacists.

http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/29303

I have updated the Wikipedia article to reflect this information.

[mshelat]

Votes are here:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2008-10

The amendment was sponsored by Senator Ensign (R-Nevada) who said his staff discovered that the stimulus payments would go to illegal aliens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSXqiyqLVd4

In reality, the change was the result of lobbying by FAIR, an anti-immigrant group:

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...ter_friendly=1

FAIR is accused of having ties to White Supremacists.



http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/29303

I have updated the Wikipedia article to reflect this information.


GREAT WORK. I AM SURE WE WILL BE HEARD.

[coldcloud]

Please update here if there is any improvements in getting SSN for H4 dependents.

[shyamsk]

Hi Everyone,

After checking in google, I found this information and felt very happy about it.

Until yesterday I was not aware of this condition and expecting the benefit from IRS. After checking the IRS schedule and validating the benefit, I was shocked when it said not eligible because of ITIN reasons. Initially I thought it was a mistake by IRS and called them up but there was no answer.

Now, I have little hope that they'll classify people who filed H1+H4 jointly should atleast consider for $600 benefit. I'm with two children and had initially high hope and a long list for spending the amount. But now that is all past....

I would like to thank you everyone for taking this step of passing on the information and following up with legal, SSA & IRS authorities. Please do let everyone in the list know if as a group anything can be done. I would also like to share towards it. I live Redmond, WA.

This is not right when other people who filed singly received the money not we. We're treated as illegal and I believe this is a discrimination for this group of people.

Shyam.

[Totoro]

Indeed it makes no sense that people who have families to support get nothing, while those who do not have families get it.

Anyway, it is not over yet. I have been able to get congress to approve checks for military families, so anything is possible.

[Kaper]

We are in the same boat, and I came across this forum via google as well. We are Canadians living in Texas - my husband has a SSN (H1B) and my daughters and I have ITIN's (H4). This is blatant discrimination and is infuriating to me.

I am happy to join the group to get something done. I will keep my eyes on the board for further action.

Thanks to everyone who is spearheading this.

[kalyan]

recently they were worked or worked to accomodate people working in US Army to be eligible if one in their family has ITIN.

Then why there are not looking at Legal Immigrants.

[mshelat]

Indeed it makes no sense that people who have families to support get nothing, while those who do not have families get it.

Anyway, it is not over yet. I have been able to get congress to approve checks for military families, so anything is possible.

That is really great NEWS. at least, some are benefiting from the left outs. How did that happen so quickly. What are the hurdles in getting it for legal immigrants (for example, H4 dependents)?

[Totoro]

recently they were worked or worked to accomodate people working in US Army to be eligible if one in their family has ITIN.

Then why there are not looking at Legal Immigrants.

My contact in the government says "it was too expensive".

[Totoro]

That is really great NEWS. at least, some are benefiting from the left outs. How did that happen so quickly. What are the hurdles in getting it for legal immigrants (for example, H4 dependents)?

It happened because of relentless canvasing of the media until the story got out and embarrassed the government. "Supporting the troops" is a no-brainer for a politician wanting to score political points. Most Americans could care less about immigrants or other citizens who are married to them. So there is no political urgency to solve that "problem." Although the media has reported that the exclusion of legal immigrants was "unintended," my sources say that the exclusion was intentional.

I had hoped to embarrass the government further by exposing the connection to a known "hate group," but the media has refused to report that part of the story. If I could get the media to expose the racist origins of this law, we might have some hope, but don't count on it.

The next phase is to focus on legal options.

[mshelat]

It happened because of relentless canvasing of the media until the story got out and embarrassed the government. "Supporting the troops" is a no-brainer for a politician wanting to score political points. Most Americans could care less about immigrants or other citizens who are married to them. So there is no political urgency to solve that "problem." Although the media has reported that the exclusion of legal immigrants was "unintended," my sources say that the exclusion was intentional.

I had hoped to embarrass the government further by exposing the connection to a known "hate group," but the media has refused to report that part of the story. If I could get the media to expose the racist origins of this law, we might have some hope, but don't count on it.

The next phase is to focus on legal options.

This is really interesting. Legal immigrants - their rights and well-being hinges on political points over which legal immigrants have no influence. Very interesting and disappointing at the same time.


You tried your best Totoro. Thanks for all the efforts you have been making and have made so far.

[sc3]

I had hoped to embarrass the government further by exposing the connection to a known "hate group," but the media has refused to report that part of the story. If I could get the media to expose the racist origins of this law, we might have some hope, but don't count on it.

The next phase is to focus on legal options.

Define free media again...

[whiteStallion]

It happened because of relentless canvasing of the media until the story got out and embarrassed the government. "Supporting the troops" is a no-brainer for a politician wanting to score political points. Most Americans could care less about immigrants or other citizens who are married to them. So there is no political urgency to solve that "problem." Although the media has reported that the exclusion of legal immigrants was "unintended," my sources say that the exclusion was intentional.

I had hoped to embarrass the government further by exposing the connection to a known "hate group," but the media has refused to report that part of the story. If I could get the media to expose the racist origins of this law, we might have some hope, but don't count on it.

The next phase is to focus on legal options.

Thanks Totoro for all the great work! Now that they have separated out the army folks, there is very little chance for a separate initiative only for the legal immigrants.Anyway the Govt is running with huge budget deficits and it suits them well to save a few billion greenbacks by excluding the legal immigrants...We are anyway nobody's child!
Most importantly from the politician guys viewpoint in this election year, we cannot vote! So we cannot help or hurt them!

[rklscp]

Really an interesting issue to talk about. I came to this site via google search. I am in the same boat. I am living in country for 14 years (F1 and now H1) with SSN. My wife never worked here; so she has H4. We have a daughter born here with SSN. We could not get this "stimulus rebate" because we filed "married filing jointly". I understand from IRS site that if you filed "married filing separately" you would get the benefit and you can later on amend your filing as "married filing jointly" (04/14/08). This may be beneficial if you "itemize" your deductions. You will still qualify for excemptions. But, if you do not itemize your deductions, your standard deduction will be halved if you file "married filing separately".

We filed married filing joingly and received our tax returns and no stimulus rebate. Can we re-file our tax return by filing separately this year (i.e. extension/amendment within 3 months?) Has anyone done this? Please let me know.

I would love to a part of any legal battle to raise our concern. Please keep us posted. I plan to check this site regularly. Also, please keep us updated with getting SSN for H4 visa holders.

[Totoro]

The lawyers are still working on the background research they need before they can make a case. This can take some time, but I will update you if anything new comes up.

[rklscp]

Thanks Totoro.

Can Totoro (or anybody) answer this question?

We filed married filing joingly and received our tax returns and no stimulus rebate. Can we re-file our tax return by filing separately this year (i.e. extension/amendment within 3 months?) Has anyone done this? Please let me know.

I noticed that if you itemize your deductions, you dont loose much even if you file "married filing separately".

Thanks!

[Totoro]

Thanks Totoro.

Can Totoro (or anybody) answer this question?

We filed married filing joingly and received our tax returns and no stimulus rebate. Can we re-file our tax return by filing separately this year (i.e. extension/amendment within 3 months?) Has anyone done this? Please let me know.

I noticed that if you itemize your deductions, you dont loose much even if you file "married filing separately".

Thanks!

No you can't. You must have filed separately. You could have amended your return to file jointly, but not the other way around.

[rklscp]

No you can't. You must have filed separately. You could have amended your return to file jointly, but not the other way around.

Thanks Totoro.

So, I can do it that way (file separately first and get stimulus and then amend the return to file jointly after I get stimulus) only for tax year 2008?

(IRS website also says if u do so, you dont have to return the stimulus benefit - unfortunately this clause was added only on 04/14/2008!! according to IRS website).

I cannot do anything this year I guess??

how could IRS expect us to file separately and get the stimulus and then amend our return as filing jointly without loosing the stimulus by announcing it on 04/14/2008??? I dont understand this stupidity at all!!

[coldcloud]

After all of that if your pay is greater than 75K and if you file separately you will not be getting stimulus package. This was the news i got confirmed from IRS over phone.

[snathan]

After all of that if your pay is greater than 75K and if you file separately you will not be getting stimulus package. This was the news i got confirmed from IRS over phone.

This is very old news dude....:D:D

[mshelat]

I think the issue of Economic Stimulus Package and H-4 dependents is losing the momentum. Where is everyone????

[rklscp]

I think the issue of Economic Stimulus Package and H-4 dependents is losing the momentum. Where is everyone????

I agree ---- I think the momentum is slowing down...

at least can we not take any legal action for issuing out a rule (you can file MFS and get the stimuls and then amend MFJ) on 04/14/2008??? what about people who filed a long time ago as MFJ?? Because once you filed MFJ, the action is irrevocable!?! In my honest opinion, this stupidity of issuing out a clause the day before filing deadline deserves some "stir"!!

[mshelat]

I agree ---- I think the momentum is slowing down...

at least can we not take any legal action for issuing out a rule (you can file MFS and get the stimuls and then amend MFJ) on 04/14/2008??? what about people who filed a long time ago as MFJ?? Because once you filed MFJ, the action is irrevocable!?! In my honest opinion, this stupidity of issuing out a clause the day before filing deadline deserves some "stir"!!

Any news?

[Totoro]

I agree ---- I think the momentum is slowing down...

at least can we not take any legal action for issuing out a rule (you can file MFS and get the stimuls and then amend MFJ) on 04/14/2008??? what about people who filed a long time ago as MFJ?? Because once you filed MFJ, the action is irrevocable!?! In my honest opinion, this stupidity of issuing out a clause the day before filing deadline deserves some "stir"!!

Not really, because they corrected it by allowing you to file next year instead. However, the legal challenge discussed early is still being worked on.

[rishikesh75]

All,
I visited the local office at Waukegan (Chicago suburb) last week to apply for SSN for my wife (H1 & EAD) and my minor son (H4) and was surprised to see SSN card in my mail box today for both of them!! :) (frankly I was expecting to see a denial letter for my son). Sequence of events

Me: submitted SSN form, passport for my minor Son
SSN officer: Upon seeing the visa. We do not accept application for h4 w/o work authorization
Me: I produced the printout of SSN provision 20 C.F.R. § 422.104(a)(3) and informed here that I need to apply for Federal benefit (stimulus package) and for that I would need one
SSN Officer: Oh yea..Oh yea.. there is a provision and she accepted the application

My sons SSN card displays "Not authorized to work".Thanks to Totoro posting the information on 05/03/2008.
link http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18907

[coldcloud]

I will try again tommorow in our SSN office....

[Totoro]

All,
I visited the local office at Waukegan (Chicago suburb) last week to apply for SSN for my wife (H1 & EAD) and my minor son (H4) and was surprised to see SSN card in my mail box today for both of them!! :) (frankly I was expecting to see a denial letter for my son). Sequence of events

Me: submitted SSN form, passport for my minor Son
SSN officer: Upon seeing the visa. We do not accept application for h4 w/o work authorization
Me: I produced the printout of SSN provision 20 C.F.R. § 422.104(a)(3) and informed here that I need to apply for Federal benefit (stimulus package) and for that I would need one
SSN Officer: Oh yea..Oh yea.. there is a provision and she accepted the application

My sons SSN card displays "Not authorized to work".Thanks to Totoro posting the information on 05/03/2008.
link http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18907

That's great news. You can apply for the stimulus payment next year.

[mshelat]

That's great news. You can apply for the stimulus payment next year.

Do you think this applies universally or just one off?

[Totoro]

Do you think this applies universally or just one off?

Others have been denied. I sent this info to the lawyers to see if it makes any difference to our case.

[patha007]

My wife is on H4. She has applied for SSN for stimulus package and got denial letter. How will be useful this letter to get SSN for her. Please advice.
Thanks for your great help.

[Totoro]

My wife is on H4. She has applied for SSN for stimulus package and got denial letter. How will be useful this letter to get SSN for her. Please advice.
Thanks for your great help.

Keep the letter and any other documentation you have. You may need them if this goes to court. I am still working with the lawyers on this.

[snakesrocks]

All,
I visited the local office at Waukegan (Chicago suburb) last week to apply for SSN for my wife (H1 & EAD) and my minor son (H4) and was surprised to see SSN card in my mail box today for both of them!! :) (frankly I was expecting to see a denial letter for my son). Sequence of events

Me: submitted SSN form, passport for my minor Son
SSN officer: Upon seeing the visa. We do not accept application for h4 w/o work authorization
Me: I produced the printout of SSN provision 20 C.F.R. § 422.104(a)(3) and informed here that I need to apply for Federal benefit (stimulus package) and for that I would need one
SSN Officer: Oh yea..Oh yea.. there is a provision and she accepted the application

My sons SSN card displays "Not authorized to work".Thanks to Totoro posting the information on 05/03/2008.
link http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18907


I would appreicate if you can provide the link for the document or a copy of the SSN provision 20 C.F.R. § 422.104(a)(3).

Thanks

[braindrain]

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/422/422-0104.htm

[johny5278]

I guess there is very little follow-up on this issue.

Even I tried to get an SSN for my spouse (H4) and was turned down... I asked the lady on the counter to give me a denial letter and have it with me. Maybe it will be of some use later in this process.

[Totoro]

I guess there is very little follow-up on this issue.



That doesn't mean nothing is being done. I am continuing to do a lot of work on this, but there is nothing new to post right now.

To date I have been able to get every newspaper in the country to do stories on this, as well as three scathing editorials in the NY Times, LA Times, and Mercury News, all of which slammed the government for its action.

I have worked with the staff of a member of Congress to ensure that house representatives were aware of the issue.

As a result, the house of representatives unanimously passed the HEART Act giving stimulus payments to affected soldiers overseas.

I have been able to get an important legal organization to review and research the topic for possible litigation.

I would love to go over the legal details with you, but it is not prudent to give too much detail here right now.

And finally, I have been corresponding with immigrants like you providing advice and updates on the situation.

I am not sure what more you expect.

[mshelat]

That doesn't mean nothing is being done. I am continuing to do a lot of work on this, but there is nothing new to post right now.

To date I have been able to get every newspaper in the country to do stories on this, as well as three scathing editorials in the NY Times, LA Times, and Mercury News, all of which slammed the government for its action.

I have worked with the staff of a member of Congress to ensure that house representatives were aware of the issue.

As a result, the house of representatives unanimously passed the HEART Act giving stimulus payments to affected soldiers overseas.

I have been able to get an important legal organization to review and research the topic for possible litigation.

I would love to go over the legal details with you, but it is not prudent to give too much detail here right now.

And finally, I have been corresponding with immigrants like you providing advice and updates on the situation.

I am not sure what more you expect.


You have been doing a great job. Please keep it up. Have a nice weekend and relax.

[johny5278]

hey

I didnt mean to offend you... i really appreciate the awareness (and hope) that you have brought to this issue.

I apologize if my selection of words have hurt you or anybody else in this forum.

[Totoro]

hey

I didnt mean to offend you... i really appreciate the awareness (and hope) that you have brought to this issue.

I apologize if my selection of words have hurt you or anybody else in this forum.

No offense taken. It just gets a bit frustrating when it feels like I am taking on all of this by myself. In fact, there have been a lot of frustrations in this process, but I won't go into them here, because most are personal and not relevant to the discussion. I haven't heard from the lawyers in two weeks, so I should probably touch base with them to see what is going on.

[whiteStallion]

Thanks again Totoro, for all the good work!

[sc3]

Thanks Toroto. Keep up the good work.

[general17]

I am on L1 Visa & I went to SSN office to apply SSN for my child (L-2 Visa). They refused to accept my application and they wanted Documentation from the appropriate government entity explaining the need for the SSN as per
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203510

Please let me know what should I do next to apply for SSN.

[sanjay]

Hi,

Sorry for late jumping on this old topic. But, applied for SSN for my wife and got it in mail. Now what? My taxes for last year were applied in feb this year. How can I tell IRS that my wife got SSN now and she is eligible for Stimulus package?

Can I claim this amount next year when I file my taxes?

Thanks.

[sanjay]

Hi,

Sorry for late jumping on this old topic. But, applied for SSN for my wife and got it in mail. Now what? My taxes for last year were applied in feb this year. How can I tell IRS that my wife got SSN now and she is eligible for Stimulus package?

Can I claim this amount next year when I file my taxes?

Thanks.

Boss, any suggestions here?

Thanks.

[mhathi]

Boss, any suggestions here?

Thanks.

Just apply for taxes normally next year with your wife's SSN and you will get the rebate next year

[waitin_toolong]

same would go for a child born this year

[general17]

I am on L1 Visa & I went to SSN office to apply SSN for my child (L-2 Visa). They refused to accept my application and they wanted Documentation from the appropriate government entity explaining the need for the SSN as per
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203510

Please let me know what should I do next to apply for SSN.

Hi Senior Members,

Can any one answer to my previous question.

Thanks

[gopinathan]

Gurus,
I applied for tax return with my cousin as dependent. I am H1B on a project working for MNC, spouse in H4 and my cousin is doing his MS on F1. Since my wife has only ITIN, my understanding is that there is NO stimulus payment for me and my cousin will loose his $300 as he is claimed as dependent. last week, my cousin got a letter from dept of treasury that his stimulus payment is on the way and sure enough, couple of days later, a check for $300 is waiting for him.

Is this normal that a person with a SSN who filed his return as dependent get stimulus benefit? just checking if anyone else got one like this.. does this mean I can expect $300 for myself being on H1B with SSN also?

thanks for any suggestions..

[trueguy]

Hi,

Can I apply for ITIN for my wife when she is not physically in USA and she never been here?

Thanks for your replies.

Rgds.

[trueguy]

Any expert advice on it?

Hi,

Can I apply for ITIN for my wife when she is not physically in USA and she never been here?

Thanks for your replies.

Rgds.

[GCEB2]

Thanks for the Info..

My Wife got her EAD Last year. But she didn’t file for her SSN and we filed tax on her ITIN. Now she has her SSN how can we claim for Stimulus Rebate .

Thanks

[illinois_alum]

Hi,

Can I apply for ITIN for my wife when she is not physically in USA and she never been here?

Thanks for your replies.

Rgds.

No. You need a Valid Visa and/or I-94 to apply for ITIN

[trueguy]

Thanks for the reply. I talked to IRS and was on the phone with them for 1.5hrs and she said I can apply for her ITIN even though she is not here.

Anybody here got ITIN for spouse even though spouse is not in US?

Thanks.

No. You need a Valid Visa and/or I-94 to apply for ITIN

[Totoro]

Just an update. I am still working on this, but I have nothing new to report.

[p_kumar]

Hi,

Sorry for late jumping on this old topic. But, applied for SSN for my wife and got it in mail. Now what? My taxes for last year were applied in feb this year. How can I tell IRS that my wife got SSN now and she is eligible for Stimulus package?

Can I claim this amount next year when I file my taxes?

Thanks.

You can file an amendment with the ssn information. If you are not sure how, just talk to any cpa.

[chennai]

Thanks for the reply. I talked to IRS and was on the phone with them for 1.5hrs and she said I can apply for her ITIN even though she is not here.

Anybody here got ITIN for spouse even though spouse is not in US?

Thanks.



You can apply for ITIN even if your spouse is not in US. I have done it ealrier but the only condition is she shouldhave visited US on dependent visa last year for your to claim?
-Udaya.

[Totoro]

You can file an amendment with the ssn information. If you are not sure how, just talk to any cpa.

That is wrong. You must wait until you file your taxes next year with the new ID number.

[mshelat]

That is wrong. You must wait until you file your taxes next year with the new ID number.


Any updates for H1B and their H4 dependents (with ITIN) for obtaining Economic Stimulus Package?

[gopinathan]

did any one receive a rebate check like this?

Gurus,
I applied for tax return with my cousin as dependent. I am H1B on a project working for MNC, spouse in H4 and my cousin is doing his MS on F1. Since my wife has only ITIN, my understanding is that there is NO stimulus payment for me and my cousin will loose his $300 as he is claimed as dependent. last week, my cousin got a letter from dept of treasury that his stimulus payment is on the way and sure enough, couple of days later, a check for $300 is waiting for him.

Is this normal that a person with a SSN who filed his return as dependent get stimulus benefit? just checking if anyone else got one like this.. does this mean I can expect $300 for myself being on H1B with SSN also?

thanks for any suggestions..

[trueguy]

You can apply for ITIN even if your spouse is not in US. I have done it ealrier but the only condition is she shouldhave visited US on dependent visa last year for your to claim?
-Udaya.

My wife never been to US and I am married for 2 years now. I have been filing my return as Single.

Last week I talked to IRS and they said I can apply for her ITIN without her being present in US. The condition of visiting US applied to other dependents and not for the spouse. She has to sign my tax return though that I have to mail it to her and she will mail it back to me with her signature.

Not sure how true is that and I don't know if I should give it a try or not.
Thanks.

[jsb]

My wife never been to US and I am married for 2 years now. I have been filing my return as Single.

Last week I talked to IRS and they said I can apply for her ITIN without her being present in US. The condition of visiting US applied to other dependents and not for the spouse. She has to sign my tax return though that I have to mail it to her and she will mail it back to me with her signature.

Not sure how true is that and I don't know if I should give it a try or not.
Thanks.
Yes, that is correct. In fact spouse, child or anyone else, who you are claiming as dependent needs an ITIN, it does not matter where they live, or if they ever visited US, or have any visa to visit US.

[jsb]

That is wrong. You must wait until you file your taxes next year with the new ID number.

If your spouse got an SSN in 2007, but you didn't care, and filed your 2007 tax with his/her ITIN, can't you amend your 2007 tax by correcting ITIN with SSN?

Why wait till next year? I don't think stimulus check is an annual phenomenon. Isn't it a one time deal?

[Picasa]

I have not received my stimulus check yet. Here are the details:
Paper filed the tax returns early February.
Opted for direct deposit in the checking account.
Last 2 of social security are between 39-50
According to the following link http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=180250,00.html, I should have received it by now.
I am wondering if some one else is in the same boat & has called the Rebate Hotline at 1-866-234-2942.
Thanks,

[Picasa]

:confused:

[senk1s]

Yes I've called the rebate hot-line (i think it was the main IRS number and reached there by choosing the rebate option)

The agent was very helpful. It was a while back - i had e-filed, but did not check the box for electronic refund (i had to pay) - so it was treated as a paper filing for this case - and got the check on the paper 'schedule'

[gc_dedo]

Any updates on this topic?

I didnt get rebate check this year because i havent filed my wife and kid EAD.
I can apply for their EAD and get SSN so i can get the rebate next year but that costs money too.

[gc_dedo]

Bump

[whiteStallion]

Any updates ?

[Totoro]

Any updates ?

I contacted the lawyers a few times to see what they were doing and they said they were working on it. But to be honest, I got tired of doing this on my own, and the lack of updates from the lawyers makes me doubt that anything will be done.

In fact, the current economic situation casts doubt on my employment, so I am not sure how long I will be in the US. Hopefully I can ride this out, but obviously I have other things on my mind. I need at least one more year working in the US to be eligible for social security. So I am keeping my fingers crossed.

[aupadh]

Well it seems the idea to get a Stimulus for 2008 for people having spouses with ITIN is nearing dead end (no action). Now the government is planning another stimulus. I think we should work on taking the necessary steps to prevent the same happening this year (being dropped out). I think we should raise awareness and write to all people including President Obama.

Ideas / comments?

[Totoro]

Well it seems the idea to get a Stimulus for 2008 for people having spouses with ITIN is nearing dead end (no action). Now the government is planning another stimulus. I think we should work on taking the necessary steps to prevent the same happening this year (being dropped out). I think we should raise awareness and write to all people including President Obama.

Ideas / comments?

The problem is, that for all my efforts, people just don't seem to care. The only reason I had any success was the embarrassment I caused the government because of all the soldiers who were excluded. Immigrants in the US are viewed by most people as an unwanted scourge.

My employer has also been no help at all. I have been looking for work outside of the US, but unfortunately, the economic situation makes that a bit more challenging. Sorry if I sound pessimistic. That is just my personal experience.

[Murthy]

I tried last year for my daughter.They will not issue SSN for child Alliens.I have argued showing 20 C.F.R. § 422.104(a)(3).There is no use.I got for my wife only with EAD.
In the SSN application, it says
If you check "Legal Alien Not Allowed to Work," you must provide a document from a U.S.
Federal, State, or local government agency that explains why you need a Social Security number and that you meet all of the requirements for the U.S. government benefit. [B][B]NOTE: Not all U.S.State or local benefits are acceptable for non-work SSN purposes. Contact SSA to see if your reason qualifies.
If you check "Other," you must provide a document from the U.S. government agency that explains why you need a Social Security number and that you meet all of the requirements for a Federal benefit except for the number.
I have shown stimulus payment document that says you must have SSN for getting stimulus payment.They didnot accept. Gov want to avoid H4s.purposefully they added SSN requirement.
One of friend told they give SSN provided child has some state ID card.But state ID cannot be issued untill 16 years age for PA state.If some one got SSN without EAD for H4 kindly post here it is very useful for H4s.
thanks
murthy

[aupadh]

The problem is, that for all my efforts, people just don't seem to care. The only reason I had any success was the embarrassment I caused the government because of all the soldiers who were excluded. Immigrants in the US are viewed by most people as an unwanted scourge.

My employer has also been no help at all. I have been looking for work outside of the US, but unfortunately, the economic situation makes that a bit more challenging. Sorry if I sound pessimistic. That is just my personal experience.


I agree but that should not keep us away from trying. If it were not for HOPE then a lot of things would not have worked for people including the newly elected president.

I understand the frustration but at least we can use the same info and make it available to the relevant authorities. I think we will not loose anything as like last time we will be dropped again.

I am willing to contribute sometime to it. Any one else interested?

[a_tyagi26]

The problem is, that for all my efforts, people just don't seem to care. The only reason I had any success was the embarrassment I caused the government because of all the soldiers who were excluded. Immigrants in the US are viewed by most people as an unwanted scourge.

My employer has also been no help at all. I have been looking for work outside of the US, but unfortunately, the economic situation makes that a bit more challenging. Sorry if I sound pessimistic. That is just my personal experience.

I agree with you, immigrants (legal or illegal) will always be viewed inferior in this country and we will always be immigrants. I am not sure if I want this tag with me, my kids, their kids all their lives. Sometimes I wonder if this GC path is even worth it. Going through so much trouble every time there is renewal, there is stamping, stamping delays, so much scrutiny, no certainity of coming back once you visit home country, so much even after living here for 6 years and now this back log.

If you read any news on immigrants and read comment section after it, you will realize the hate from people here in this country. Is it really worth it to live in this country, when people here do not want to accept us? No acceptance in community, such high crime. Yes sure there will be some exceptions along the way who will rise to top.

Just to point out the difference the amount of celebration among blacks after Obama won. Was there such kind of celebration after Sonia won or Manmohan became PM from their communities? This shows the kind of differences people have. I am not saying things in India are great, or else I would not be here. Just wondering on my random thoughts if its even worth it.

[CndnTN]

We are Canadian and on a visa, our son is an American citizen and we also cannot get the stimulus, not even our son's $300 which is wrong!

People do not care about the immigration problems because most do not know about them or understand them. It is a very unjust system that encourages illegal immigration and discourages allowing educated, upstanding people from coming here.

[jsb]

We are Canadians too. IRS ruling is that if even a single person on your tax does not have a SSN, no one gets any stimulus money. Seems too weird, but that's what they say. For paying taxes, we are considered "US Persons", and should pay taxes not only on US income, but on World income (even on RRSP income within the plan unless you make a special filing to get exemption).


We are Canadian and on a visa, our son is an American citizen and we also cannot get the stimulus, not even our son's $300 which is wrong!

People do not care about the immigration problems because most do not know about them or understand them. It is a very unjust system that encourages illegal immigration and discourages allowing educated, upstanding people from coming here.

[praveenuppaluri]

so far, Senate Majority Harry Reid alsked the republicans to "stop" these things.. but we know they managed last year - so, if we don't do something, we may end up not receiving rebates this year also.. especially given the fact that Obama is trying to get support for this to pass in senate and not one republican voted for it in house...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/01/29/senate-republicans-warn-stimulus-rebates-pay-illegal-immigrants/

[Totoro]

I just made a new post about how the new stimulus is going to be denied to immigrants again. Please view the new thread here:

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=23399