Suggestion:Advocacy Day

[Leo07]

Folks,

I'm sure you must have debated this already. But, I'd post this anyways:

Is it possible to take out(or substitute) the need to have a IV handle or register with IV, inorder to participate and meet the law-makers on the Advocacy Day?

I'm thinking that could bring in more people. People who wants to register will register anyways and who don't want to can also participate. There are other ways to check the validity of the person registering

Thanks!

[chanduv23]

Folks,

I'm sure you must have debated this already. But, I'd post this anyways:

Is it possible to take out(or substitute) the need to have a IV handle or register with IV, inorder to participate and meet the law-makers on the Advocacy Day?

I'm thinking that could bring in more people. People who wants to register will register anyways and who don't want to can also participate. There are other ways to check the validity of the person registering

Thanks!

I never thought registering on IV is a an issue. I see close to 50K registered users on IV, I have not come across anyone who had any issues for registering with IV.

[Leo07]

Basically, there are lot of people on the other site, who don't want to join IV but participate:) They think that they might be accidentally causing a benefit to IV by joining IV:)
I never thought registering on IV is a an issue. I see close to 50K registered users on IV, I have not come across anyone who had any issues for registering with IV.

[tonyHK12]

Basically, there are lot of people on the other site, who don't want to join IV but participate:) They think that they might be accidentally causing a benefit to IV by joining IV:)

I have seen a similar thing with our other campaign - "File 485 before PD is current". There are some forums spreading negative information about IV and this might be the reason.
Of course theoretically it is possible to have them participate in these without creating an ID (which is free). We have to verify in some way to avoid antis, maybe ID or bill or some other way.
We don't want to go to USCIS with 100s of members from numbersUSA or fishing site users.

[Leo07]

I agree that we must have a way to weed out anti-immigrants.

But, that's doable...is it so hard to figure out anti-immigrants when they sign-up & turn-up? :)



I have seen a similar thing with our other campaign - "File 485 before PD is current". There are some forums spreading negative information about IV and this might be the reason.
Of course theoretically it is possible to have them participate in these without creating an ID (which is free). We have to verify in some way to avoid antis, maybe ID or bill or some other way.
We don't want to go to USCIS with 100s of members from numbersUSA or fishing site users.

[willigetgc?]

basically, there are lot of people on the other site, who don't want to join iv but participate:) they think that they might be accidentally causing a benefit to iv by joining iv:)

Priceless!
Speechless!
Such attitude is Worthless! How confident should we be that they will stick to the message and not go of on tangent in the meeting? It may be better off not to have them.

If people believe a cause is worthwhile and will benefit them, they will come - and registering will not be an issue for them.
If people don't want to do the heavy lifting, they will give any excuse - including registering as the detractor to join the cause. The change has to come from within and cannot be forced. You can talk to a person who has a question on what needs to be done during the advocacy days, you can talk to a person who has doubts - if he/she can be reasoned with, but you are wasting time with people who have no intention of participating to begin with!

[Leo07]

Although I agree with you on principle...that cannot bring people in numbers. There will always be people who don't agree with each other. leadership involves channeling both parties energies, those who agree with me and those who don't agree. Sounding arrogant, feeling proud of what I did better than others and looking down upon people who don't agree with me, doesn't help me, right? Who am I to judge somebody's attitude and achievements?

Priceless!
Speechless!
Such attitude is Worthless! How confident should we be that they will stick to the message and not go of on tangent in the meeting? It may be better off not to have them.

If people believe a cause is worthwhile and will benefit them, they will come - and registering will not be an issue for them.
If people don't want to do the heavy lifting, they will give any excuse - including registering as the detractor to join the cause. The change has to come from within and cannot be forced. You can talk to a person who has a question on what needs to be done during the advocacy days, you can talk to a person who has doubts - if he/she can be reasoned with, but you are wasting time with people who have no intention of participating to begin with!

[PlainSpeak]

Although I agree with you on principle...that cannot bring people in numbers. There will always be people who don't agree with each other. leadership involves channeling both parties energies, those who agree with me and those who don't agree. Sounding arrogant, feeling proud of what I did better than others and looking down upon people who don't agree with me, doesn't help me, right? Who am I to judge somebody's attitude and achievements?

While i whole heartedly agree with what you stated above i don't think this idea is going to work. IV certainly will not want to take the risk of anti-immigrants being part of the advocacy effort and skewing things on the day. Messing up before the representatives will not do IV's credibility and good.

Infact all the donars in this site who keep asking me for donations would not want even me to be at the advocacy even if i donate, seeing how i disagree with them on principle. They would not want to risk me being part of the advocacy group

If i who believe in IV but does not believe in the approach as the approach does not provide relief to badly retrogressed categories is a risk for advocacy then the risk of anti immigrants being part of advocacy is even bigger

On a side note it is good to see some one from EB2 having a rational argument and calling a spade a spade

[dummgelauft]

I have seen a similar thing with our other campaign - "File 485 before PD is current". There are some forums spreading negative information about IV and this might be the reason.
Of course theoretically it is possible to have them participate in these without creating an ID (which is free). We have to verify in some way to avoid antis, maybe ID or bill or some other way.
We don't want to go to USCIS with 100s of members from numbersUSA or fishing site users.

That is the ONLY bloody way you can assure yourself of a CLEAN organisation..i do not know what it will take for IV 'CORE" to understand this.
Paying, vetted members ONLY!!

[willigetgc?]

You are right leo.

My question is - is quantity all that matters? We need lots of people to participate, but at the same time, I believe that people need to agree with IV provisions too, to be a passionate representative in lawmaker meetings. If the person is thinking twice to register (for free, and believes that registration will help IV), how dedicated and passionate will he be in articulating the IV provisions?

I would prefer to have quality of members over quantity of members. (I am only talking about dedication of members). Am I being judgmental? Maybe I am. But I believe my logic is right. You see, the person who does not want to register is also being judgmental, unapologetic, and he probably believes in his logic. He is entitled to his opinion (as I am), however, IV should not sacrifice its integrity to get members who do not believe in it.

Accommodating people who cannot extend the same courtesy to an organization working for their own benefit?

If people who are affected by 485 prefiling , or want to participate in the advocacy efforts, they can think in:

There is an org that is working on this issue, it will benefit me, I don't know much about it, let me find out more and see if I can help.
There is an org that is working on this issue, it will benefit me, I don't know much about it, I don't think it is possible to get the job done, I don't want to spend my time on it, I will stay away from it.
There is an org that is working on this issue, it will benefit me, I don't know much about it, I don't think it is possible to get the job done, I will spend the time to sabotage it.


You can only work with group #1.

[tonyHK12]

I would prefer to have quality of members over quantity of members. (I am only talking about dedication of members). Am I being judgmental? Maybe I am. But I believe my logic is right. You see, the person who does not want to register is also being judgmental, unapologetic, and he probably believes in his logic. He is entitled to his opinion (as I am), however, IV should not sacrifice its integrity to get members who do not believe in it.

I agree, we are an organization and at this point we haven't even asked people to compulsorily donate for Advocacy. I would say, not registering on IV is being extremely narrow-minded and being a crab (benefiting IV?).
Thousands of IV members have created an account on that site, so what is the problem?

[Leo07]

I appreciate both you guys for keeping this discussion so clean and issue based. I was little worried on my first post that someone might spin it personal. Kudos to your mature responses.

Yes, I honestly think that quantity matters in meeting politicians. What is so clear to us may not be clear to them. Not because they are lesser mortals than us, they have a different perspective. Why and How is entirely not up to me to worry about. Someone has a different view and I can only respect that view. I cannot, and do not, think that I must invest my time in brainwashing anyone. I wouldn't call it a crab mentality either without knowing them personally.

With that said, let me be a devils-advocate, if you will, and ask these questions:

Given ours is a issue-based, goal-based struggle, with Goal & Issue being same for ALL EB immigrants:
--- Why should I expect all immigrants to wear any organization's badge, be dedicated to any particular/one organization, whether that Org is IV/Democrats/Republicans/Congress/BJP
--- Shouldn't I be just worried about who can SHOUT louder about my issue and less worried about the Organization that's making them SHOUT?
-----

Thanks for the discussion again.

I agree, we are an organization and at this point we haven't even asked people to compulsorily donate for Advocacy. I would say, not registering on IV is being extremely narrow-minded and being a crab (benefiting IV?).
Thousands of IV members have created an account on that site, so what is the problem?

[willigetgc?]

With that said, let me be a devils-advocate, if you will, and ask these questions:

Given ours is a issue-based, goal-based struggle, with Goal & Issue being same for ALL EB immigrants:
--- Why should I expect all immigrants to wear any organization's badge, be dedicated to any particular/one organization, whether that Org is IV/Democrats/Republicans/Congress/BJP
--- Shouldn't I be just worried about who can SHOUT louder about my issue and less worried about the Organization that's making them SHOUT?
-----

Thanks for the discussion again.

Hypothetically speaking, let's assume all the 55,000 members in IV are active but are not organized under one umbrella (IV). Each of them have the same problem (stuck in the backlogs) and each of them approach lawmakers. Each discusses their own personal case and each of them discuss about a solution that fits them - (human nature). Some of them may be the very same provisions as IV. But will these 55,000 people mention all the provisions? chances are - No.
So, there will be no coherent messaging, even though there are 55,000 people participating simultaneously.

Second, without being an organized unit, we loose the collective strength. Say a lawmaker is interested in fixing our problems - his task will be tremendous - he probably has only 10 people who have approached his office to fix the problem - so not only does he have to find out if there is a wide range of people affected by this problem, he also has to contact each of the 10 people individually. Guess what? he too will suggest for the 10 people to join forces and be under one umbrella.

What I am trying to say is that IV has already brought us together. It has built good relations with key people in DC. It has done the ground work. Why not build on the sound foundation?

In life we are ready to be grouped as Indians, Indian-Americans, Asians, Male, Female, Married, Unmarried, Hindu, Christian, Muslim, political organizations (we believe in one or the other - independents, democrats, republicans, congress, bjp), Unions, Employees of Cisco, IBM, Desi Consulting - what is wrong in identifying oneself in a group if you believe in it? By nature we are a collective group, but we think that it is wrong/unnecessary to belong to a group! We think we are smarter for being independent. But the truth is that even the most independent of the guys lives in a society. He may not accept it, but that does not change the facts.

Bottom line is, what each one of us believe in. If we believe in a cause, we will find a way to work on it. Quantity matters only when there is quality. If we have to depend on only one, my preference would be on quality. I want the loudest person, but at the same time, I want that loud person to be shouting the message that I want - or else it defeats the purpose.

Leo, this is just my opinion, not IV's - though I would think IV will agree with me. I believe in collective strength and individual's logic to think matters through (no brainwashing!).

I have nothing more to say.

[Leo07]

There is not a word that I disagree. Your are preaching to the choir:)

I wasn't even talking about the 55K, just the X-55k. X being the all EB immigrants-in-waiting. They will join after the advocacy day if they change their opinion, if not there's no change whatsoever.

Hypothetically speaking, let's assume all the 55,000 members in IV are active but are not organized under one umbrella (IV). Each of them have the same problem (stuck in the backlogs) and each of them approach lawmakers. Each discusses their own personal case and each of them discuss about a solution that fits them - (human nature). Some of them may be the very same provisions as IV. But will these 55,000 people mention all the provisions? chances are - No.
So, there will be no coherent messaging, even though there are 55,000 people participating simultaneously.

Second, without being an organized unit, we loose the collective strength. Say a lawmaker is interested in fixing our problems - his task will be tremendous - he probably has only 10 people who have approached his office to fix the problem - so not only does he have to find out if there is a wide range of people affected by this problem, he also has to contact each of the 10 people individually. Guess what? he too will suggest for the 10 people to join forces and be under one umbrella.

What I am trying to say is that IV has already brought us together. It has built good relations with key people in DC. It has done the ground work. Why not build on the sound foundation?

In life we are ready to be grouped as Indians, Indian-Americans, Asians, Male, Female, Married, Unmarried, Hindu, Christian, Muslim, political organizations (we believe in one or the other - independents, democrats, republicans, congress, bjp), Unions, Employees of Cisco, IBM, Desi Consulting - what is wrong in identifying oneself in a group if you believe in it? By nature we are a collective group, but we think that it is wrong/unnecessary to belong to a group! We think we are smarter for being independent. But the truth is that even the most independent of the guys lives in a society. He may not accept it, but that does not change the facts.

Bottom line is, what each one of us believe in. If we believe in a cause, we will find a way to work on it. Quantity matters only when there is quality. If we have to depend on only one, my preference would be on quality. I want the loudest person, but at the same time, I want that loud person to be shouting the message that I want - or else it defeats the purpose.

Leo, this is just my opinion, not IV's - though I would think IV will agree with me. I believe in collective strength and individual's logic to think matters through.

I have nothing more to say.

[willigetgc?]

Maybe one more thing to say...

Ask the skeptics to contact StarSun. Let IV handle the convincing, if you and I can bring the people..........

[bugsbunny]

Basically, there are lot of people on the other site, who don't want to join IV but participate:) They think that they might be accidentally causing a benefit to IV by joining IV:)
This seems strange...no reason you cant be a part of more than one organization
and what kind of benefit as we talking about here?
are they also EB immigrants with the same Goal....do they have other different goals?

They want to come help with advocating...but do not want to benefit us...so they want to benefit us by helping out but they don't want to officially be seen as benefiting us?? lol seems like a weird funny paradox :D
Maybe they can help with logistical support n let IV deal with the actual talking to senators part