Job Zone changes for IT Jobs and EB-2

[Better_Days]

The following is from the immigration-law.com website. I am having a tough time understanding its implication. Can someone elaborate on what it means? Does it mean that filing a PERM in EB2 (requiring Masters degree) will be tougher/impossible?

.......
* The landscape changed beginning from July 2007 when they started focusing on the integrity of labor certification system. The agency started challenging such EB-2 requirement even for the SVP 8 IT occupations under DOT if it belonged to the Job Zone 4. The challenge took a form of "audit." Such EB-2 requirements have faced a massive challenge and audits. However, the former SVP 8 IT cases have been approved after the audits in a large number of cases. This practice is expected to change once the new form ETA 9089 PERM application program is launched next year since the new form will automatically consider such EB-2 requirement for IT occupations as the business necessity cases for exceeding the Job Zone 4 requirement. Initinally, DOL was scheduled to launch the new ETA 9089 form beginning from January 1, 2009, but luckily they pushed off the starting date to late Spring of 2009. That was a good news.
* Bad news is a further change in O*Net Job Zone for IT manager occupations. They just changed the O*Net data into version 13.0 which down graded IT manager job zone from 5 to 4! The last vestige of Job Zone 5 in IT occupations has been cruelly crushed to death. Since EB-2 occupation must require either a master's degree or Bachelor's degree plus five years of progressive experience, now all the IT occupations exceed the Job Zone 4 allowed preparation time. We will have to wait and see how this change in Job Zone for IT manager occupation will be managed in actual adjudication of PERM applications hereon, but it is certainly not a positive news.
* The recent downgrading of professional occupations from Job Zone 5 to Job 4 does not end with the IT occupations. There are a number of professional occupations that have been downgraded practically to nonprofessional occupations in some cases. Company General Manager is downgraded to Job Zone 3!! Employers who start PERM recruitment should review the attached Job Zone changes and seek legal advice. Believe me, there are a lot of surprises.

[angelfire76]

Understanding it means that getting a IT occupation classified under EB-2 is going to be tougher starting January 2009 due to the "business necessity" clause. Previously jobs requiring experience from 2-4 yrs + BS or MS+0 -2 could be easily classified under EB-2 and labor approved for the jobs.

But from Spring 2009 we will probably see an increase in the challenges by DOL or "audits" when they feel that a certain job should not be classified under EB-2.
The implications are many:
1. EB2 will become as elusive and difficult to obtain as EB1, especially if you file through mega-companies who are conservative about job titles
2. Slower processing of labor certifications as each EB2 will be scrutinized intensely. They are just creating another bottleneck.
3. Availability of "rollover" visas for EB3-ROW (This is ridiculous) due to emptying out of EB2 I &C as the classification itself will be tough to get for the majority.

[addsf345]

Understanding it means that getting a IT occupation classified under EB-2 is going to be tougher starting January 2009 due to the "business necessity" clause. Previously jobs requiring experience from 2-4 yrs + BS or MS+0 -2 could be easily classified under EB-2 and labor approved for the jobs.

But from Spring 2009 we will probably see an increase in the challenges by DOL or "audits" when they feel that a certain job should not be classified under EB-2.
The implications are many:
1. EB2 will become as elusive and difficult to obtain as EB1, especially if you file through mega-companies who are conservative about job titles
2. Slower processing of labor certifications as each EB2 will be scrutinized intensely. They are just creating another bottleneck.
3. Availability of "rollover" visas for EB3-ROW (This is ridiculous) due to emptying out of EB2 I &C as the classification itself will be tough to get for the majority.

How will it effect to many of us who have EB-2 already approved few years back, filed 485, working on EAD and waiting endlessly due to retrogression?

[Better_Days]

Since I-140 is already approved, you should be fine.

How will it effect to many of us who have EB-2 already approved few years back, filed 485, working on EAD and waiting endlessly due to retrogression?

[Better_Days]

Understanding it means that getting a IT occupation classified under EB-2 is going to be tougher starting January 2009 due to the "business necessity" clause. Previously jobs requiring experience from 2-4 yrs + BS or MS+0 -2 could be easily classified under EB-2 and labor approved for the jobs.

But from Spring 2009 we will probably see an increase in the challenges by DOL or "audits" when they feel that a certain job should not be classified under EB-2.
The implications are many:
...

I suspected that :(. Is it just me or there seems to be a concerted effort to say NO at every possible opportunity? Sometimes I think that this country will ruin its economy if it continues down the road of making life difficult for those trying to get in legally. But then I question myself if it is a "Grapes are sour" syndrome? I mean the line of people trying to get in gets longer and longer and I don't see any tipping point reached.

Anyways, thanks for you input .

[letstalklc]

This might create more mess at DOL, already they are taking 5-6 months for cleaned cases and more than 15 months for audited cases....if this rule is implemented applying in EB2 is very very difficult....

As per immigration-law they are not gonna do much for already applied cases...

[rajpatelemail]

EB2 Or EB3 will come into picture only with INS

At DOL stage, there is no meaning for EB1/2/3 or some other EB..

It may only effect getting labor stage cleared. Not at INS stage i guess..as
DOL and INS are 2 different entities.

[gcdreamer05]

The following is from the immigration-law.com website. I am having a tough time understanding its implication. Can someone elaborate on what it means? Does it mean that filing a PERM in EB2 (requiring Masters degree) will be tougher/impossible?

This has been triggered because of this effort...........

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=300225&postcount=214

[angelfire76]

EB2 Or EB3 will come into picture only with INS

At DOL stage, there is no meaning for EB1/2/3 or some other EB..

It may only effect getting labor stage cleared. Not at INS stage i guess..as
DOL and INS are 2 different entities.

I believe that the Skill Level (Level I or II) has an implication on the category under which the I-140 will be filed. In addition I believe that as the labor certificate is a pre-ccondition to the I-140 the matching is done more carefully now.

Somebody pointed out the letter by one of IV member to the DOL. I've been hearing rumors that it along with several other letters submitted as a petition to the DOL has been the reason for a change. Of course DOL will oblige if it makes life tougher for applicants and "streamline" its work. :rolleyes:

[Better_Days]

I am sure that most people understand that DOL & USCIS are different entities.

But this ruling is very relevant because DOL has to certify your case before you can file your I-140. If DOL adopts a too strict criteria for asking for MS or BS w/ 5 years experience, it has a direct bearing on your ability to file for a PERM asking for MS and hence filing your I140 in EB2.

EB2 Or EB3 will come into picture only with INS

At DOL stage, there is no meaning for EB1/2/3 or some other EB..

It may only effect getting labor stage cleared. Not at INS stage i guess..as
DOL and INS are 2 different entities.

[Better_Days]

This has been triggered because of this effort...........

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=300225&postcount=214

I went away for a month and the whole neighborhood went to the dumps :)

Interesting as I was not aware of the campaign.

I do have one question for those who supported your efforts: it seems that you folks were upset that EB3 may port to EB2.

Now I have a US masters and am in EB3 ROW. I gather that the cost of a lawsuit is 30K from one your postings. 30K is not that much money if I want to fight the horizontal spillover to EB2 on my own. I mean 30K is less than the cost of an entry level BMW. A part of me is tempted to go down the route and see if you will feel that smug. Why don't I do it? You may have a hard time believing me but for me there is such a thing as too high a price for my GC. I have a lot of Indian friends who benefit from it and I can let it slide at that.

To each its own I guess.

[akela_topchi]

SunnySurya and gang, your selfishness has created roadblocks for many future EB2 filers. Hope you are happy now!

You created so much friction between EB3 and EB2 members and ultimately made it harder for EB2 filers...

If EB2 filers get audits/rejections then don't forget to send a "Thank you" note and flowers to SunnySurya and other members who supported his campaign.

Who need NumbersUSA when we have members like SunnySurya et al.



This has been triggered because of this effort...........

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=300225&postcount=214

[LostInGCProcess]

Looking at all these new rule, backlogs, endless line for GC, there appears to be a systemic discouragement, at the top-level, for approving GC's. They want to give us hope that one day you are going to get the GC and at the same time the amount of uncertainty is not too intense that would make an individual reconsider the path to getting GC. He/she may opt to go elsewhere(different country). But we have not reached to that tipping point (of frustration) yet.

So, they (USICS) are really playing a very balanced act. And when people start going elsewhere to settle, the trend would reverse and all the microscopic scrutiny would disappear.

Right now the "supply" seems to be more then the "demand". And I truly believe its cyclical in nature and the revers would come pretty soon...and we all are going to get the GC...But again is it worth after all that period??? :)

[newbie2020]

Is the change in Jobzone has any impact et all.. for EB2 filings...

[chi_shark]

Since I-140 is already approved, you should be fine.

so does this mean that at the time of 485 adjudication it really doesnt matter whether you were eb2 or 3? i.e. if 140 is approved, 485 is just a matter of visa number and "Same or similar" right? that is way cool

[angelfire76]

Is the change in Jobzone has any impact et all.. for EB2 filings...

Previously there was an open-ended term called "normal" in your PERM application which allowed employers to tailor the job requirements to the sponsored candidate's qualifications. Now the employer has to validate as to why they need a candidate who's qualifications are beyond the regular requirements for the job or vice-versa i.e. why the job requirements exceed the classification. This is usually easier if the candidate has considerable qualifications and a lot easier if you are in a senior technical role in a company.
From a brief discussion with my attorney, his view is that DOL thinks that Computer and Information Systems managers classification is too generic to be considered specialized, which EB2 requires.
Anyway his conclusion was that if you are in a technology job with fair amount of experience (above 5 yrs) with an advanced degree preferably in the field, then generally a bonafide company should have little to no issue in providing a business necessity letter.

[indyanguy]

From Spring 2009, how difficult would it be to get the "Senior Software Engineer" classified as EB2? This position requires a M.S.

Any thoughts?

[angelfire76]

From Spring 2009, how difficult would it be to get the "Senior Software Engineer" classified as EB2? This position requires a M.S.

Any thoughts?

Tech jobs requiring an advanced degree and x amount of years experience can be classified as EB2. However there could be an audit for business necessity as the requirements are not "normal" for the job that comes in Job Zone 4. Normal job requirements for job zone 4 are BS + 2-4 yrs experience. It is strange indeed as most IT jobs have now been considered by DOL as requiring only undergrad and 2 yrs of work experience. Even the description given in the O*net classification is ludicrous, given that most people being classified in that job zone do a lot more than what is stated in the requirements.