Come here, work, go home: UK tells migrants

[gcandgc]

Come here, work, go home: UK tells migrants (http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/come-here-work-go-home-uk-tells-migrants-111232)

London: As part of continuing efforts to reduce migration from India and other countries outside the European Union, the David Cameron government today announced proposals that seek to prevent foreign professionals from settling here permanently.

The proposals, announced in a consultation exercise, will affect Indian skilled workers as well as domestic workers such as cooks and 'ayahs', who travel to Britain with their employers.

Immigration minister Damian Green said: "We want the brightest and best workers to come to the UK, make a strong contribution to our economy while they are here, and then return home."

Campaign groups said that if foreign professionals were not allowed to settle here permanently, they would rather migrate to countries such as Canada and Australia.

Amit Kapadia of the Highly Skilled Migrants Forum told PTI that it will launch a protest against the plans.

India is among three countries mentioned in the consultation document from where the most number of overseas domestic workers come to Britain; the other two are the Philippines and Indonesia.

The tighter rules will also affect diplomats from India and other non-EU countries posted here who bring along their domestic help.

Under current rules, migrants who work in Britain for five years are allowed to settle here permanently.

The proposals seek to break this link between working and automatic permanent settlement, except for a limited number of high worth individuals.

The plans include re-classifying UK visas as either 'temporary' or 'permanent' and introduce stricter criteria for those who want to stay.

Green said that the proposals were aimed at "breaking the link between temporary and permanent migration."

He said: "Settlement has become almost automatic for those who choose to stay. This needs to change. The immigration system has got to be made to work properly."

The consultation proposes that people earning over 150,000 pounds or doing jobs that have a specific economic or social value to the UK be allowed to stay in the country permanently.

Plans include a new category to allow most exceptionally talented skilled workers to apply to stay after a three-year period in the UK.

Home secretary Theresa May said: "I shall break that link and return to a position where Britain will continue to attract the brightest and best workers, who will make a strong contribution to our economy and society during their stay, then return home.

A small number of exceptional migrants will be able to stay permanently but for the majority, coming here to work will not lead automatically to settlement in the UK.

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GCANDGC

[shx]

Good luck UK. You are not the most popular destination to begin with. I hope your economy fails miserably and your population ages so much that eventually they all die and someone else takes over your country.

[Uncertain]

This makes sense, and is similar to Australia.


"The plans include re-classifying UK visas as either 'temporary' or 'permanent' and introduce stricter criteria for those who want to stay."

Australia has a temporary visa where the employer sponsors the employee for the visa (just like H1B)
After a few years (2 years iirc) the employee can change status to permanent residence based on their education, experience and skills based points system (just like I485)

Dont know why the HSMP forum is so worried about this.

[gk_2000]

Foolish of Palin: she should have asked to meet David Camaroon

[nvmurali]

Good luck UK. You are not the most popular destination to begin with. I hope your economy fails miserably and your population ages so much that eventually they all die and someone else takes over your country.

You're going to the UK to earn money, not to do a favor to the country. The country has every right to tell you not to stay. How many 100's of thousands of Indian families are in the Middle East knowing full well, they're going to go back when they're told to.

Dont have a chip on your shoulder. You came out of India because of either a fad, or for a job or whatever. If you're unwilling to back to the country you're born at - be it India, China or wherever, then you're pretty much stuck at the mercy of a different country who may or may not accept you as their resident.

Atleast the Chinese take pride in their country and what they do. India has such a long way to go. May be you could contribute there?

[blue_fairy]

Good luck UK. You are not the most popular destination to begin with. I hope your economy fails miserably and your population ages so much that eventually they all die and someone else takes over your country.

your post is in a very bad taste.. grow up!

[shreekhand]

What a gem of a response to the trash that was blurted out ! :)


You're going to the UK to earn money, not to do a favor to the country. The country has every right to tell you not to stay. How many 100's of thousands of Indian families are in the Middle East knowing full well, they're going to go back when they're told to.

Dont have a chip on your shoulder. You came out of India because of either a fad, or for a job or whatever. If you're unwilling to back to the country you're born at - be it India, China or wherever, then you're pretty much stuck at the mercy of a different country who may or may not accept you as their resident.

Atleast the Chinese take pride in their country and what they do. India has such a long way to go. May be you could contribute there?

[shx]

Immigration minister Damian Green said: "We want the brightest and best workers to come to the UK, make a strong contribution to our economy while they are here, and then return home."

While I realize that what I posted was in bad taste, I don't think their new position on immigration is fair. I don't understand what their goal is. Attrart the brightest and the best or somehow reduce immigrants from outside the EU? Obviously, this plan is not going to attract the brightest and the best, if there is no path to permanent residency.

So you want the Arab countries as the standard for good immigration practices? Should we now consider those as the model that the rest of the world should follow?

Your point about chinese self respect is ridiculous. Again, I dont get why the chinese are referred to here. They are everywhere, perhaps more so than Indians in almost all the major countries. Again, the chinese reference is totally irrelevant to what this thread is about. Please enlighten me if I'm missing something.

IMO, the populations are aging rapidly in the European countries and they need immigrants. They just don't want to extend any rights to them and they want to control the racial make-up. I'm sure it seems fair to people with slave mentality. Sure there might be enough people willing to still go there and work. People who think like slaves and are willing to be exploited.

[GCHope2011]

Immigration minister Damian Green said: "We want the brightest and best workers to come to the UK, make a strong contribution to our economy while they are here, and then return home."

While I realize that what I posted was in bad taste, I don't think their new position on immigration is fair. I don't understand what their goal is. Attrart the brightest and the best or somehow reduce immigrants from outside the EU? Obviously, this plan is not going to attract the brightest and the best, if there is no path to permanent residency.

So you want the Arab countries as the standard for good immigration practices? Should we now consider those as the model that the rest of the world should follow?

Your point about chinese self respect is ridiculous. Again, I dont get why the chinese are referred to here. They are everywhere, perhaps more so than Indians in almost all the major countries. Again, the chinese reference is totally irrelevant to what this thread is about. Please enlighten me if I'm missing something.

IMO, the populations are aging rapidly in the European countries and they need immigrants. They just don't want to extend any rights to them and they want to control the racial make-up. I'm sure it seems fair to people with slave mentality. Sure there might be enough people willing to still go there and work. People who think like slaves and are willing to be exploited.
Agree with you on this.

Countries, are like companies, when it comes to attracting talent. If they do not value talent, the real talent will go where they are valued better.

Of course, there will always be those who will consider themselves as doing no favor to the company and living at the mercy of the companies.

Same applies with immigrants - it is not about carrying a chip on one's shoulders, but about recognizing one's own value and that there is an equal imperative from the countries to attract talent as well.

If the objective of the policy was to encourage "Highly Skilled" immigrants, then why the distinction between EU and Non-EU sources of "highly skilled" people?

[pillagandhi]

Having worked in the UK. The perception of the british is one of rulers (afterall they did rule us)

They have every right to make the laws they want.

They want to keep their country white and it is their choice.

what we can't stand is the sheer hypocrisy.

[airbusfan]

OOH, middle east as a model for immigration, love it!! Just my ignorance or perception, whatever you call it, middle east is more of an attraction for low-skilled workers, so they aren't really attracting high-skilled talent!!

Mr. Murali, you're still vying for a greencard here aren't you??? Did you leave India as a fad or job ?? Aren't you at a mercy of US to accept you as a resident??

Man Please!! People are complaining about UK's double standards. I was asked to move to UK for a secondment and if I liked it there, I had the option to stay there. Now I don't think I want to go there permanently, maybe for a few months! They definitely lost one "high-skilled" worker and they haven't even implemented the new law yet. go figure!!

You're going to the UK to earn money, not to do a favor to the country. The country has every right to tell you not to stay. How many 100's of thousands of Indian families are in the Middle East knowing full well, they're going to go back when they're told to.

Dont have a chip on your shoulder. You came out of India because of either a fad, or for a job or whatever. If you're unwilling to back to the country you're born at - be it India, China or wherever, then you're pretty much stuck at the mercy of a different country who may or may not accept you as their resident.

Atleast the Chinese take pride in their country and what they do. India has such a long way to go. May be you could contribute there?

[Mr. Brown]

I have never been to the UK nor do I aspire to work/settle there but I do wonder ... would they tax the "temporary migration visa holders" differently (as in less tax) compared to "permanent migration visa holders"? If yes, then there is a good chance of attracting the brightest and the best (whatever that actually means) else what is the motivation?

[nvmurali]

OOH, middle east as a model for immigration, love it!! Just my ignorance or perception, whatever you call it, middle east is more of an attraction for low-skilled workers, so they aren't really attracting high-skilled talent!!

Mr. Murali, you're still vying for a greencard here aren't you??? Did you leave India as a fad or job ?? Aren't you at a mercy of US to accept you as a resident??

Man Please!! People are complaining about UK's double standards. I was asked to move to UK for a secondment and if I liked it there, I had the option to stay there. Now I don't think I want to go there permanently, maybe for a few months! They definitely lost one "high-skilled" worker and they haven't even implemented the new law yet. go figure!!

I left the India for my masters and stayed because I was asked to stay. If you're going to call yourself a "highly skilled worker" and then going to be at the mercy of a "host" country where you're not a permanent resident, you're really not highly skilled nor are you smart at all. It's one thing to say "I have been here so long, and I have a life here, and would like to migrate here", and theres another side to say " I demand you give me residency, because I claim to be highly skilled and I want to be here regardless of what you think".

For the record -- either way -- I dont care. It helps with life and planning to have a GC, but at the end of the day, I've forgotten about it other than having a date. If I was told to go back in 4 weeks, I have mentally been prepared to, and I'm confident of MY SKILLSET to get a job wherever. If you're not confident of yourself, then you're not highly skilled!

The middle east has a number of highly talented people. Yes, there are a lot of low skilled workers, but there are PLENTY of highly skilled workers -- and if you dont know, nay be you should visit there. Infact, they're probably smarter than the rest of us here (those like you who you consider highly skilled here), as they're having a good life with far better benefits (like free ticket to India for family, 30 - 40 days of vacation, no taxes etc) (other than Saudi Arabia where there is money but no life).

So, you need to either get educated or not call people out.

[airbusfan]

Before educating others, please educate yourself too. Like I said in my previous post, this is about UK's double standards. They started the EU for free trade etc. but now they can't stop the influx of immigrants from EU and hence want the rest of the world to stop staying there.

How are you not at Mercy of US?? You stayed because they asked you to stay, you're willing to go back if they ask you to leave??? So I guess you will fall into the second category that you created. Also, you JUST asked in the other thread about "predictions", not really just a number for you, or is it??

May be I'm kind of living in space, but can someone show me the calculations where EB2 I is expected to be current this yr / next?



So, if they're so smart than all of us combined here(including yourself) since they have a better life then why not join the smart one's and leave us poor fellas with one more EB-2 number
Anyways, I'm not going to UK and you definitely aren't going to UK or India(you said , there India has a long way to go why not improve India etc., why don't you stop preaching and start doing)!

I left the India for my masters and stayed because I was asked to stay. If you're going to call yourself a "highly skilled worker" and then going to be at the mercy of a "host" country where you're not a permanent resident, you're really not highly skilled nor are you smart at all. It's one thing to say "I have been here so long, and I have a life here, and would like to migrate here", and theres another side to say " I demand you give me residency, because I claim to be highly skilled and I want to be here regardless of what you think".

For the record -- either way -- I dont care. It helps with life and planning to have a GC, but at the end of the day, I've forgotten about it other than having a date. If I was told to go back in 4 weeks, I have mentally been prepared to, and I'm confident of MY SKILLSET to get a job wherever. If you're not confident of yourself, then you're not highly skilled!

The middle east has a number of highly talented people. Yes, there are a lot of low skilled workers, but there are PLENTY of highly skilled workers -- and if you dont know, nay be you should visit there. Infact, they're probably smarter than the rest of us here (those like you who you consider highly skilled here), as they're having a good life with far better benefits (like free ticket to India for family, 30 - 40 days of vacation, no taxes etc) (other than Saudi Arabia where there is money but no life).

So, you need to either get educated or not call people out.

[GC_Info]

Well 5 years and then asking some one to leave is not fare. Cause it is difficult to adjust in one own country. Things have changed so fast, I am afraid I might not adjust easily. More over all these countries for namesake non-racial countries. Orelse why this preference to euro nations.

[nvmurali]

Before educating others, please educate yourself too. Like I said in my previous post, this is about UK's double standards. They started the EU for free trade etc. but now they can't stop the influx of immigrants from EU and hence want the rest of the world to stop staying there.

How are you not at Mercy of US?? You stayed because they asked you to stay, you're willing to go back if they ask you to leave??? So I guess you will fall into the second category that you created. Also, you JUST asked in the other thread about "predictions", not really just a number for you, or is it??


You're really dumber than I thought you were. There is double standards everywhere. It's all down to politics. You as an immigrant have pretty much NO rights until you become a full citizen. If I'm going to be here, then I'm going to definitely be interested on how things keep moving forward. I didnt follow the dates which is why I didnt even realize that EB2 could become current this yr -- if you look at my post, "I was kind of shocked". If you dont, you're going to be an ignorant shmuck like you're coming off as.





So, if they're so smart than all of us combined here(including yourself) since they have a better life then why not join the smart one's and leave us poor fellas with one more EB-2 number
Anyways, I'm not going to UK and you definitely aren't going to UK or India(you said , there India has a long way to go why not improve India etc., why don't you stop preaching and start doing)!

I dont care going anywhere as long as it's where I want to go. Its my choice. You're at the mercy of the country only if you think so. If you think that you want to keep moving forward, you'd find ways to move forward, dont be bogged down by dates. All you need is opportunity and your long term goals should mesh with where you are. Otherwise, everything else is hogwash.

[nvmurali]

Well 5 years and then asking some one to leave is not fare. Cause it is difficult to adjust in one own country. Things have changed so fast, I am afraid I might not adjust easily. More over all these countries for namesake non-racial countries. Orelse why this preference to euro nations.

Thats really not a excuse though. So if you are given a great opportunity to go to Australia or some other country, you wont pick it up? Come on man!

[GC_Info]

Thats really not a excuse though. So if you are given a great opportunity to go to Australia or some other country, you wont pick it up? Come on man!

Your may not fare well in reading comprehension. I mean it is difficult adjust in terms of finding a satisfactory job and adjusting to the work conditions etc. Tomorrow if I find better career opportunity in India, u bet, I would leave immideately. But it should happen.

[airbusfan]

You're really dumber than I thought you were. There is double standards everywhere. It's all down to politics. You as an immigrant have pretty much NO rights until you become a full citizen. If I'm going to be here, then I'm going to definitely be interested on how things keep moving forward. I didnt follow the dates which is why I didnt even realize that EB2 could become current this yr -- if you look at my post, "I was kind of shocked". If you dont, you're going to be an ignorant shmuck like you're coming off as.






I dont care going anywhere as long as it's where I want to go. Its my choice. You're at the mercy of the country only if you think so. If you think that you want to keep moving forward, you'd find ways to move forward, dont be bogged down by dates. All you need is opportunity and your long term goals should mesh with where you are. Otherwise, everything else is hogwash.


You are a bigger dumb than I HAD thought, In this entire post, it is you who comes off as arrogant and a preacher who doesn't practice. So ofcourse its the politics and the merits of the same that we're discussing here.

SO you were ignorant until one fine morning you woke up and realized oh, I might actually become current. Compress your airhead and come down man!!

AND if you have no rights, then you are at a mercy of that entity, be it a nation, company or state or whatever else. This language of yours really doesn't make you sound smarter, you just come of as an ass....

[gopalkrishan]

You Sir, are a dumbass..

Like fighting between 2 of you will sort out whether UK policy is right or wrong .. Are they coming to you for your stamp of approval.. NO!!!!

The policy may be biased, but they as a nation and their government, as elected officials, have a right to design policy which they deem fit to suit their needs.. If you don't like it and don't go there then no big deal.. They probably are losing nothing.. For each one of us probably there are 2 more waiting to take our place..

This policy probably is going to suit a lot of people who want to work outside for a few years and then go back to India (coz of parent's, family ties, nostalgia or simply raising kids or any other reason not listed) with the money they earned and saved.. People who now want to skip UK coz of policy would probably make it easier for them(less competition) .. So Cheers to them

If you are really pissed off at UK at this point, then the only reason I cna think of is
You wanted to go there, settle down and now you can't as you probably don't qualify..

Anyways .. had nothing better to do .. so put in my 2 cents ..

Cheers

[airbusfan]

Thank you for your 2 cents.

The point is, according to some people, countries should make their own laws and immigrants shouldn't say a thing. In theory, it sounds good, but then all the IV initiatives like advocacy and lobbying also shouldn't exist.Your second paragraph re-iterates that part, so according to this logic, people who are complaining and lobbying the lawmakers about changing the existing laws, shouldn't do so and go back and hence maybe even shutdown IV.

I do like UK, I did want to go and live there, after having visited there a few times. I did have an opportunity like I said in the earlier post. I will probably go for a few months. I can't say I am bitter, but I did treat Tier-1 as a back up :D and glad I didn't take the step back then, as the rules are being enforced retrospectively instead of prospectively.

I respect you and your views. Very logical and reasonable post, no name calling! I see this is only your 6th post. Welcome to IV!!

You Sir, are a dumbass..

Like fighting between 2 of you will sort out whether UK policy is right or wrong .. Are they coming to you for your stamp of approval.. NO!!!!

The policy may be biased, but they as a nation and their government, as elected officials, have a right to design policy which they deem fit to suit their needs.. If you don't like it and don't go there then no big deal.. They probably are losing nothing.. For each one of us probably there are 2 more waiting to take our place..

This policy probably is going to suit a lot of people who want to work outside for a few years and then go back to India (coz of parent's, family ties, nostalgia or simply raising kids or any other reason not listed) with the money they earned and saved.. People who now want to skip UK coz of policy would probably make it easier for them(less competition) .. So Cheers to them

If you are really pissed off at UK at this point, then the only reason I cna think of is
You wanted to go there, settle down and now you can't as you probably don't qualify..

Anyways .. had nothing better to do .. so put in my 2 cents ..

Cheers

[gopalkrishan]

Kudos to immigrant0809 for putting forward as to why he thinks the policy is wrong, unlike someother folks here ..

@Airbusfan: There is a difference between shouting "It is wrong" and explaining why is something wrong .. I never said that we should not make an effort in trying to correct what is wrong or what is not working, but at the same time I am also a realist. I know sitting here, shouting/degrading/demeaning and abusing someone else on IV board is not going to repeal the UK policy..

The comment about lobbying/shutting down IV etc were not even hinted by me .. My simple message is if you don't like something then work for it, but putting down someone else will never make you right ... what makes you right are the facts/logic and atleast a semblance of intelligent discussion to make someone else understand what and why you are saying something, what are your points and why they are right!!!

Anyways Peace .. and thanks for your appreciation of my post and welcoming me :)

Cheers

[airbusfan]

It was started with the purpose of trying to explain it by some people!!
My friend, you're trying to change your stance now, your second para in the first reponse was:
"The policy may be biased, but they as a nation and their government, as elected officials, have a right to design policy which they deem fit to suit their needs.. If you don't like it and don't go there then no big deal.. They probably are losing nothing.. For each one of us probably there are 2 more waiting to take our place.. "

this is the same logic, we don't like the EB-3 backlogs etc. and we're lobbying for it. So when you say,"If you don't like it and don't go there then no big deal.. " implies that, you shouldn't try and lobby just don't go there. Hence I said, that's contradictory to the very existence of this forum as we are trying to change what we don't like. The start of the controversy was UK can implement its laws howsoever it wants and who are you to complain?? same goes with US! Just because it isn't affecting many in this forum, doesn't mean that its right.

Anyways, I made my decision to not go there.

Cheers!!



Kudos to immigrant0809 for putting forward as to why he thinks the policy is wrong, unlike someother folks here ..

@Airbusfan: There is a difference between shouting "It is wrong" and explaining why is something wrong .. I never said that we should not make an effort in trying to correct what is wrong or what is not working, but at the same time I am also a realist. I know sitting here, shouting/degrading/demeaning and abusing someone else on IV board is not going to repeal the UK policy..

The comment about lobbying/shutting down IV etc were not even hinted by me .. My simple message is if you don't like something then work for it, but putting down someone else will never make you right ... what makes you right are the facts/logic and atleast a semblance of intelligent discussion to make someone else understand what and why you are saying something, what are your points and why they are right!!!

Anyways Peace .. and thanks for your appreciation of my post and welcoming me :)

Cheers

[gopalkrishan]

It was started with the purpose of trying to explain it by some people!!
My friend, you're trying to change your stance now, your second para in the first reponse was:
"The policy may be biased, but they as a nation and their government, as elected officials, have a right to design policy which they deem fit to suit their needs.. If you don't like it and don't go there then no big deal.. They probably are losing nothing.. For each one of us probably there are 2 more waiting to take our place.. "

this is the same logic, we don't like the EB-3 backlogs etc. and we're lobbying for it. So when you say,"If you don't like it and don't go there then no big deal.. " implies that, you shouldn't try and lobby just don't go there. Hence I said, that's contradictory to the very existence of this forum as we are trying to change what we don't like. The start of the controversy was UK can implement its laws howsoever it wants and who are you to complain?? same goes with US! Just because it isn't affecting many in this forum, doesn't mean that its right.

Anyways, I made my decision to not go there.

Cheers!!

Please read the line again "If you don't like it and don't go there...." .. the keyword id "AND" not "THEN" .. I never said that if you don't like "THEN" don't go there .. This is called selective perception .. To each their own, If you want to believe something about me then I can't stop you; All I can do is try and correct you and if that doesn't work then so be it ..

I still stand that government of a country can make policies seeing the state of their nation and citizens of that nation and people in the nation who are directly affected by that policy, are the first people to have the right to decide if it right or wrong .. Rest of us can comment and if we believe it is not right then "TRY" to get it corrected. The decision to correct or not, still ultimately lies with the government.

Cheers and Peace out .. Am not interested in making this thread a debate about our personal beliefs OR accusation and defense of my moral/ethical/social norms/obligations/thoughts...

Njoy..

[airbusfan]

Agreed if that's what you originally intended to say , then it's my bad.

Fair enough. End of this conversation. See you some other thread

Please read the line again "If you don't like it and don't go there...." .. the keyword id "AND" not "THEN" .. I never said that if you don't like "THEN" don't go there .. This is called selective perception .. To each their own, If you want to believe something about me then I can't stop you; All I can do is try and correct you and if that doesn't work then so be it ..

I still stand that government of a country can make policies seeing the state of their nation and citizens of that nation and people in the nation who are directly affected by that policy, are the first people to have the right to decide if it right or wrong .. Rest of us can comment and if we believe it is not right then "TRY" to get it corrected. The decision to correct or not, still ultimately lies with the government.

Cheers and Peace out .. Am not interested in making this thread a debate about our personal beliefs OR accusation and defense of my moral/ethical/social norms/obligations/thoughts...

Njoy..

[Green_Always]

1) Need to Blame Yash Chopra to promote EU in his Filims :-)

2) Brits Ruled India - we should remind them about this, Let them also fight how we fought for our independence.


These are on lighter side , not for debating... :-)