Urgent, personal situation- please advice (non-immigration).

[thunderbolt]

Hello guys,
Sorry for this non-immigration related post. We have this sudden, tragic situation that I wanted all of your advice on. Thank you for your time in reading this long post.

We had hired an Indian nanny in NJ who, we learnt after hiring her, is here on a tourist visa. We were paying her $350 per week cash, which is the standard rate around here for nannies (incl. citizens and people on GC). We had liked her when we met her in response to an ad on Sulekha, and we thought an Indian nanny would be good for our first child. She has been with us for about 3 months, and we were intermittently not getting a good feeling with her for some reason. We finally bought a small security camera and installed it yesterday. On the very first day with the camera, we came home and saw the recorded video to find that she is violently hitting the baby on two separate occasions. Needless to say, it has shocked, angered and extremely saddened us. I showed the video to a couple of friends and even they say it is unbearable to watch. This was just the first day of recording and it pains us tremendously to think what all may have happened previously.
She is of course not going to stay with the baby alone anymore, but I want to know what legal options I have to penalize her to the fullest extent, so that she does not do this to anybody else’s small babies. She it seems had come here last year and taken care of someone else’s baby in Hoboken, and I can imagine that their baby also went through this. (This woman and her husband are a ~ 35 year old couple, who have a multiple entry ten year tourist visa; both come here for 6 months every year and work odd jobs like this. They apparently got a (unsponsored) tourist visa after showing a lot of landed property in India).
I specifically want to know if I will have potential problems if I go to law enforcement about this- regarding have employed her (both of us are on H1B visas). I know we have made mistakes and should have done better due diligence in this, and there cannot be any more punishment for us than seeing our 8 month old – who cannot tell us about it when we come home- being beaten on the tapes. We saw this yesterday and have not told her yet. We want to weigh all options before we proceed, but from today onwards one of us is home all the time till Friday. Any advice or opinion is sincerely appreciated. Thanks for reading this long post. And, to all who are thinking of nannies or have one, please learn from our mistakes and closely monitor your child’s safety every day.

[reddymjm]

You asked for a legal person to respond to your ad and you do not have resources to verify. You can say if she was legal to work and she said yes.
They can not work here on a B1 visa. You should report and give the vedio to Law-enforcement.

[gcdreamer05]

Very sorry to know about the nanny situation. I would not recommend taking any legal action on that nanny because you are not supposed to hire her in the first place. So if you do complain about her, it is going to back fire on you, saying how did you hire her in the first place.

It is really horrible how a person can have heart to beat a small baby. Also she is not supposed to work on a tourist visa, if someone complains she can be deported.

I would suggest the following, just terminate her asap and try to use some local nanny who has proper papers to work. (since any way you are paying the same amount).

If you had hired someone who had proper papers, and if they had committed this , i am very sure you can take them up legally and make sure they do not do this again to someone else. But in this case it is a bit complex as you too may get in to trouble for hiring her.

[niklshah]

just get rid of her, as per my thinking u cant do anything because u have done illegal thing in first place by hiring her...

[newbie2020]

First of all hiring someone on tourist visa was illegal, You had not thought about the safety of your child while doing it and without proper background check or reference checks hiring someone for nanny or anything like that involving children can be risky. There are instances of abuse which certainly will go un noticed.

From a legal perspective, Did u have a written contract for nanny, even if you sue the person you might not be able to recover anything and hiring an illegal may land you in trouble.

[sdrblr]

I am too sure you can get away with it. You are at fault for the below reason.

1) Employing a person without checking their immigration status is an offense.
2) It can come back and haunt you as you helped her in tax evasion. Employer by law MUST report to IRS for any compensation paid.
3) Since the lady is going down, she might take you along with her...What will you do if the lady tells the cops that "she told you that she cannot work here legally and you told her that it is OK and I will pay you in cash"... It becomes a story of she said and he said. They have enough proof of you not legally employing her.


Ignorace of a law is NOT an excuse.


I might be totally wrong on this.. Check with a attorney.

[Appu]

You cannot expect to report the crime/video to the cops without any repercussions for yourself. It is a federal felony to hire a foreigner without employment authorization (even if the person is not an illegal immigrant) - this means, if you are convicted, you can end up in prison, lose your property, pay fines and of course you will be deported. If you have been paying them and did not disclose this to the IRS, both you and they are liable for tax fraud, in addition. This is very serious. You should hire a lawyer if you want to deal with them legally.

[insbaby]

Now, instead of getting her into trouble you have to get yourself out of trouble first.

Find a cool way to send her out.

You will be in trouble anytime in future if she proves that you have employed her illegally in the past.

Going a bit tough here, sorry for that.

1. You both are in H1B (assuming you must know laws behind H1B)
2. Able to find someone inexpensive who can take care of your valuable baby
3. Powerful knowledge in technology to setup a secret camera to capture what she does the whole day
4. Collect all evidences and planning to penalize her

But you are not aware of the simple fact that it is illegal to hire and pay someone without notifying appropriate government agencies.

Anytime in future, if she is caught(chances are more as she is clearly not aware of the laws here and how serious is beating a child, if not in your place some other place), expect query from INS/IRS. This is a different country.

[sounakc]

control your anger. dont go to the cops. just get rid of that person ASAP. you will be equally in trouble for employing illegally. as on B1 visa they are not supposed to work.

sounak

Hello guys,
Sorry for this non-immigration related post. We have this sudden, tragic situation that I wanted all of your advice on. Thank you for your time in reading this long post.

We had hired an Indian nanny in NJ who, we learnt after hiring her, is here on a tourist visa. We were paying her $350 per week cash, which is the standard rate around here for nannies (incl. citizens and people on GC). We had liked her when we met her in response to an ad on Sulekha, and we thought an Indian nanny would be good for our first child. She has been with us for about 3 months, and we were intermittently not getting a good feeling with her for some reason. We finally bought a small security camera and installed it yesterday. On the very first day with the camera, we came home and saw the recorded video to find that she is violently hitting the baby on two separate occasions. Needless to say, it has shocked, angered and extremely saddened us. I showed the video to a couple of friends and even they say it is unbearable to watch. This was just the first day of recording and it pains us tremendously to think what all may have happened previously.
She is of course not going to stay with the baby alone anymore, but I want to know what legal options I have to penalize her to the fullest extent, so that she does not do this to anybody else’s small babies. She it seems had come here last year and taken care of someone else’s baby in Hoboken, and I can imagine that their baby also went through this. (This woman and her husband are a ~ 35 year old couple, who have a multiple entry ten year tourist visa; both come here for 6 months every year and work odd jobs like this. They apparently got a (unsponsored) tourist visa after showing a lot of landed property in India).
I specifically want to know if I will have potential problems if I go to law enforcement about this- regarding have employed her (both of us are on H1B visas). I know we have made mistakes and should have done better due diligence in this, and there cannot be any more punishment for us than seeing our 8 month old – who cannot tell us about it when we come home- being beaten on the tapes. We saw this yesterday and have not told her yet. We want to weigh all options before we proceed, but from today onwards one of us is home all the time till Friday. Any advice or opinion is sincerely appreciated. Thanks for reading this long post. And, to all who are thinking of nannies or have one, please learn from our mistakes and closely monitor your child’s safety every day.

[hpandey]

I know a lot of people have advised you not to go to the cops but I feel ( I have a young son ) that you should not let anyone who beat your 8 month old kid go unpunished.

I am not a lawyer but from what I have seen about this country justice is not denied . Local cops and Immigration are two separate branches of government . ( ICE enforces immigration issues )

If anyone had beaten my son then my H1b or GC or citizenship would be the last thing on my mind. My opinion - take advise from the lawyer right away.

You have made some mistakes by not checking for the nanny's references and other things but would you let her go scot free just so that she can do it to someone else's kid and maybe cause permanent harm the next time ??

[soni7007]

I would suggest two things:

1) Fire her and let her know the reason. If possible show her the video, that will definitely scare and embarrass her. You cannot undo what she did to your child but that will teach her a lesson and hopefully prevent her from doing that to another child.

2) I would highly recommend sending your child to a reputed daycare. Ofcourse your child will not get personal attention like home, but that ensures the safety of the child. There are other benefits of a daycare like - social interactions, personality development, fixed routines, curriculums, and above all they are trained professionals.
Give it a thought.

Good luck.


Hello guys,
Sorry for this non-immigration related post. We have this sudden, tragic situation that I wanted all of your advice on. Thank you for your time in reading this long post.

We had hired an Indian nanny in NJ who, we learnt after hiring her, is here on a tourist visa. We were paying her $350 per week cash, which is the standard rate around here for nannies (incl. citizens and people on GC). We had liked her when we met her in response to an ad on Sulekha, and we thought an Indian nanny would be good for our first child. She has been with us for about 3 months, and we were intermittently not getting a good feeling with her for some reason. We finally bought a small security camera and installed it yesterday. On the very first day with the camera, we came home and saw the recorded video to find that she is violently hitting the baby on two separate occasions. Needless to say, it has shocked, angered and extremely saddened us. I showed the video to a couple of friends and even they say it is unbearable to watch. This was just the first day of recording and it pains us tremendously to think what all may have happened previously.
She is of course not going to stay with the baby alone anymore, but I want to know what legal options I have to penalize her to the fullest extent, so that she does not do this to anybody else’s small babies. She it seems had come here last year and taken care of someone else’s baby in Hoboken, and I can imagine that their baby also went through this. (This woman and her husband are a ~ 35 year old couple, who have a multiple entry ten year tourist visa; both come here for 6 months every year and work odd jobs like this. They apparently got a (unsponsored) tourist visa after showing a lot of landed property in India).
I specifically want to know if I will have potential problems if I go to law enforcement about this- regarding have employed her (both of us are on H1B visas). I know we have made mistakes and should have done better due diligence in this, and there cannot be any more punishment for us than seeing our 8 month old – who cannot tell us about it when we come home- being beaten on the tapes. We saw this yesterday and have not told her yet. We want to weigh all options before we proceed, but from today onwards one of us is home all the time till Friday. Any advice or opinion is sincerely appreciated. Thanks for reading this long post. And, to all who are thinking of nannies or have one, please learn from our mistakes and closely monitor your child’s safety every day.

[sac-r-ten]

Since many gurus are of the opinion of not going the legal way, here is what i think is the best.
1. try to create awareness of her wrong-doing on social sites. Put the video, (if you like) on the sites.
2. Put a comment on the sulekha ad itself for this nanny (i dont know if you can do this).
3. Put comments on City search site. citysearch.com
4. Scare that woman away saying that you have found out that she is hitting the baby and you can complain to the cops.

this way we can make sure nobody else is hiring her as nanny.

[redgreen]

The most interesting part of the story is that this person (thunderbolt) is still keeping her as a nanny (if the story is true)!

[ameryki]

Hello guys,
Sorry for this non-immigration related post. We have this sudden, tragic situation that I wanted all of your advice on. Thank you for your time in reading this long post.

We had hired an Indian nanny in NJ who, we learnt after hiring her, is here on a tourist visa. We were paying her $350 per week cash, which is the standard rate around here for nannies (incl. citizens and people on GC). We had liked her when we met her in response to an ad on Sulekha, and we thought an Indian nanny would be good for our first child. She has been with us for about 3 months, and we were intermittently not getting a good feeling with her for some reason. We finally bought a small security camera and installed it yesterday. On the very first day with the camera, we came home and saw the recorded video to find that she is violently hitting the baby on two separate occasions. Needless to say, it has shocked, angered and extremely saddened us. I showed the video to a couple of friends and even they say it is unbearable to watch. This was just the first day of recording and it pains us tremendously to think what all may have happened previously.
She is of course not going to stay with the baby alone anymore, but I want to know what legal options I have to penalize her to the fullest extent, so that she does not do this to anybody else’s small babies. She it seems had come here last year and taken care of someone else’s baby in Hoboken, and I can imagine that their baby also went through this. (This woman and her husband are a ~ 35 year old couple, who have a multiple entry ten year tourist visa; both come here for 6 months every year and work odd jobs like this. They apparently got a (unsponsored) tourist visa after showing a lot of landed property in India).
I specifically want to know if I will have potential problems if I go to law enforcement about this- regarding have employed her (both of us are on H1B visas). I know we have made mistakes and should have done better due diligence in this, and there cannot be any more punishment for us than seeing our 8 month old – who cannot tell us about it when we come home- being beaten on the tapes. We saw this yesterday and have not told her yet. We want to weigh all options before we proceed, but from today onwards one of us is home all the time till Friday. Any advice or opinion is sincerely appreciated. Thanks for reading this long post. And, to all who are thinking of nannies or have one, please learn from our mistakes and closely monitor your child’s safety every day.

As a parent of a 6 month old I can imagine what you are feeling. At the sametime given the circumstances I would not recommend you considering any legal action. Given the fact that you are aware that she is illegally working and that you were paying her cash weekly etc will only create trouble for you. I realize its hard for you to let this go considering its your own little baby but in the long run it will help you and your family. Kick the lady out of the house and tell her if you ever see her around your neighborhood you will have her arrested for assault.

[alias]

I have a one year old; I went through nanny shopping and finally decided to keep our baby in the daycare. I would tell you on top of my voice - go to the cops immediately, this is simply unacceptable. I can't imagine how someone can hit a 8 months old. I can't imagine how someone can hit a 8 months old. I'm sitting here, my hand is shaking with anger. If I were you, i would not worry anything about her status, you saw an advertisement and you hired, you can argue that if it comes to that. Point here is screw her up so bad so she doesn't think of doing it again.....

Hello guys,
Sorry for this non-immigration related post. We have this sudden, tragic situation that I wanted all of your advice on. Thank you for your time in reading this long post.

We had hired an Indian nanny in NJ who, we learnt after hiring her, is here on a tourist visa. We were paying her $350 per week cash, which is the standard rate around here for nannies (incl. citizens and people on GC). We had liked her when we met her in response to an ad on Sulekha, and we thought an Indian nanny would be good for our first child. She has been with us for about 3 months, and we were intermittently not getting a good feeling with her for some reason. We finally bought a small security camera and installed it yesterday. On the very first day with the camera, we came home and saw the recorded video to find that she is violently hitting the baby on two separate occasions. Needless to say, it has shocked, angered and extremely saddened us. I showed the video to a couple of friends and even they say it is unbearable to watch. This was just the first day of recording and it pains us tremendously to think what all may have happened previously.
She is of course not going to stay with the baby alone anymore, but I want to know what legal options I have to penalize her to the fullest extent, so that she does not do this to anybody else’s small babies. She it seems had come here last year and taken care of someone else’s baby in Hoboken, and I can imagine that their baby also went through this. (This woman and her husband are a ~ 35 year old couple, who have a multiple entry ten year tourist visa; both come here for 6 months every year and work odd jobs like this. They apparently got a (unsponsored) tourist visa after showing a lot of landed property in India).
I specifically want to know if I will have potential problems if I go to law enforcement about this- regarding have employed her (both of us are on H1B visas). I know we have made mistakes and should have done better due diligence in this, and there cannot be any more punishment for us than seeing our 8 month old – who cannot tell us about it when we come home- being beaten on the tapes. We saw this yesterday and have not told her yet. We want to weigh all options before we proceed, but from today onwards one of us is home all the time till Friday. Any advice or opinion is sincerely appreciated. Thanks for reading this long post. And, to all who are thinking of nannies or have one, please learn from our mistakes and closely monitor your child’s safety every day.

[ncrtpMay2004]

Please find a good day care....for $1400/month($350/week), you should be able to find a good one.

[chanduv23]

I have a nine month old and I can understand your feelings. I hired a nanny through sulekha but did a lot of reference checking and tried her when my parents were around here in US and they monitored her carefully and then gave us the green signal to keep her before they left.

So not all nannies are like that. There are good nannies too. I pay a lot of money a lot more compared to what thunderbolt quoted ONLY because we found her to be nice and caring. She gets calls from her earlier employers who say their kids want to speak with nanny and say hello.

It is just your bad luck. Nannycams are very useful and plan to get one for myself just for my satisfaction even though we are happy with our nanny.

Like someone suggested - daycare would be a good option and I even thought about it but a 8 month old kid may catch alleriges easily and thats why I backed off too.

Now about legal recourse - the best thing is to get out of any kind of mess. You were aware that you must not hire a nanny illegally and now you pay the price. No problem. Just say good bye to her and be careful next time

[Ennada]

Child beaters need to be taught a good lesson. Because of obvious reasons, you cannot go to the police or immigration.

I am assuming she doesn't know that you can't go to the authorities. So..(this might sound stupid) you can threaten her that you will report her unless she refunds all the money you paid her. This is the best possible punishment I can think of.

[truthinspector]

Hello guys,
Sorry for this non-immigration related post. We have this sudden, tragic situation that I wanted all of your advice on. Thank you for your time in reading this long post.


Fire her immediately.


Put a post on Sulekha warning other potential employers of her wrong doings.Make sure you are explicit about her and her husband's identity.

[dilbert_cal]

I have a nine month old and I can understand your feelings......
Now about legal recourse - the best thing is to get out of any kind of mess. You were aware that you must not hire a nanny illegally and now you pay the price. No problem. Just say good bye to her and be careful next time

Chandu - Can I Ask you something here.

Just today I was reading on the ac21 thread, how you lamented that we as a community dont stand up for injustice and how some folks are worried that writing AC21 letter may mess up their situation somehow ......

And right now , you are suggesting that the best thing is to get out of any kind of mess. So the person knew he was doing something illegal and his 8 month old kid was beaten up and you feel he paid the price and now No Problem and he should move on ???????????

Somehow, this 2 + 2 isnt equating 4 for me. What am I missing here ?

Sorry Chandu but I'm disappointed with you right now.

[arbhaat]

Thunderbolt,
I believe you can safely go to the cops and report this abuse. As someone has said above, immigration and civil matters are handled separately. You can (and probably) should get an advice from a lawyer about any implications to your GC journey here, just so that you are prepared for it. But letting this person go unchecked is not something you can afford.

Many corporations do not have enough resources to find out whether or not they are hiring legal employees. Even the republican candidates for presidency discussed this on stage in their debates that a person cannot check legal employability of everyone they hire. Many of us hire and pay incash for yard work, house maids etc. without checking if they are allowed to work in US. It's mainly the employee's responsibility to make sure they are allowed to legally work in US. That's why EVerify is voluntary and not a compulsion yet.

[americandesi]

Though I am a single, I can understand agony you’re going through. Your nanny had committed a crime which is a felony punishable by jail term followed by deportation for life.

Since your baby is a non-immigrant victim of violence that had violated U.S. laws and had occurred in the United States, check with a qualified immigration attorney on weather you qualify for a "U Visa" which provides temporary immigration benefits to victims who help law enforcement.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/U-visa_05Sept07.pdf

http://www.immigration.com/newsletter1/uvisareminder.pdf

Don’t just walk away from this before even consulting with an attorney.

[hpandey]

And as I said before knowing about child abuse and not notifying the cops is a bigger crime than hiring an illegal alien . In this case the child depends upon you for protection and you know about the abuse but you are considering whether to notify the cops or not !

This can come back on you itself in case someone else notifies the police ( your friend maybe ? ) The Department of Social Services is very strict in this country and I believe your child is a US citizen considering that he is only 8 months old ( most probably ).

How can you think of not getting justice for your child who cannot defend himself and not get justice himself. If he could speak believe me he would want to see the nanny in prison.

[LostInGCProcess]

I have no words for people in this forum, suggesting the person to just be quite and not report about that nanny who has harmed a child who is just 8 months old...it is very sad, sickening, and shocking that a majority of you guys are giving such bad suggestion.

Your first instinct as a parent is to protect your child.

If the child is harmed and you have the proof, man!!!! I would not be discussing that on this forum, but would go straight to the police station and give the complaint and protect my child and scores of other child who might be next if that nanny is not booked by the authorities.

She has advertised in a web site. It not going to be a big crime if you unknowingly hire someone who happens to be not authorized to work. At most its a misdemeanor with a fine.

But keeping quite after seeing what that devil has done to a child, it really bogs my mind, can't imagine why you folks are so afraid.

Report it to the authorities soon...believe me, you would not regret it for the rest of your life.

Immigration and IRS are not linked in any way: Just found this on the internet, does it make any sense?

Families who decide to hire or retain their illegal immigrant employees are able to comply with all of the current payroll tax reporting requirements, even if the worker does not have a valid Social Security number or US Work Authorization. The Internal Revenue Code prohibits the sharing of taxpayer information with other government agents - see THE PRIVACY ACT OF 1974 5 U.S.C. § 552a. HomeWork Solutions' staff can assist employers in this tax compliance, including preparation of back tax returns. Remember, tax compliance by illegal immigrants does not confer work authorization, but non-compliance will make them ineligible for future legal status.

[stuckinretro]

Kick her out and give no reason. Find a day care its lot better.

Hello guys,
Sorry for this non-immigration related post. We have this sudden, tragic situation that I wanted all of your advice on. Thank you for your time in reading this long post.

We had hired an Indian nanny in NJ who, we learnt after hiring her, is here on a tourist visa. We were paying her $350 per week cash, which is the standard rate around here for nannies (incl. citizens and people on GC). We had liked her when we met her in response to an ad on Sulekha, and we thought an Indian nanny would be good for our first child. She has been with us for about 3 months, and we were intermittently not getting a good feeling with her for some reason. We finally bought a small security camera and installed it yesterday. On the very first day with the camera, we came home and saw the recorded video to find that she is violently hitting the baby on two separate occasions. Needless to say, it has shocked, angered and extremely saddened us. I showed the video to a couple of friends and even they say it is unbearable to watch. This was just the first day of recording and it pains us tremendously to think what all may have happened previously.
She is of course not going to stay with the baby alone anymore, but I want to know what legal options I have to penalize her to the fullest extent, so that she does not do this to anybody else’s small babies. She it seems had come here last year and taken care of someone else’s baby in Hoboken, and I can imagine that their baby also went through this. (This woman and her husband are a ~ 35 year old couple, who have a multiple entry ten year tourist visa; both come here for 6 months every year and work odd jobs like this. They apparently got a (unsponsored) tourist visa after showing a lot of landed property in India).
I specifically want to know if I will have potential problems if I go to law enforcement about this- regarding have employed her (both of us are on H1B visas). I know we have made mistakes and should have done better due diligence in this, and there cannot be any more punishment for us than seeing our 8 month old – who cannot tell us about it when we come home- being beaten on the tapes. We saw this yesterday and have not told her yet. We want to weigh all options before we proceed, but from today onwards one of us is home all the time till Friday. Any advice or opinion is sincerely appreciated. Thanks for reading this long post. And, to all who are thinking of nannies or have one, please learn from our mistakes and closely monitor your child’s safety every day.

[WAIT_FOR_EVER_GC]

Mr hpanday..
I understand your feelings and of the person who is going through this. But to all calm down and think. The parents have made a mistake.(My friend has such kind of nanny too who is here on a visitor visa but she is not like this and I do not blame these parents too for hiring one like this)

Some say they should go to the cops, use (U Visa) etc ..but when you go to the cops they will take her in and ask her information (SSN and stuff) and when they find that she is not legally eligible to work then what will the parents have to go through now.
The Social Services is different from immigration (True) but Social Services will take away the baby from the parents because they have committed a federal offence and they are not capable of taking care of the baby.

This is what happened with my cousin. My niece fell down from the stairs and was hurt real bad. When my cousin took her to the hospital the hospital authorities called social services saying that they are not taking care of the baby and are harming the child. The family doctor who was paged saved them by giving his gaurantee.

First it is a federal offence and irresposibility will cause them a price.
(To the parents: Sorry sir I do not mean to say that you are irresponsible but
this is what they might say)

Please take extra precaution when you are dealing with a minor.

I just wanted to share this with you and it is up to you to take the correct action you think




And as I said before knowing about child abuse and not notifying the cops is a bigger crime than hiring an illegal alien . In this case the child depends upon you for protection and you know about the abuse but you are considering whether to notify the cops or not !

This can come back on you itself in case someone else notifies the police ( your friend maybe ? ) The Department of Social Services is very strict in this country and I believe your child is a US citizen considering that he is only 8 months old ( most probably ).

How can you think of not getting justice for your child who cannot defend himself and not get justice himself. If he could speak believe me he would want to see the nanny in prison.

[chanduv23]

Chandu - Can I Ask you something here.

Just today I was reading on the ac21 thread, how you lamented that we as a community dont stand up for injustice and how some folks are worried that writing AC21 letter may mess up their situation somehow ......

And right now , you are suggesting that the best thing is to get out of any kind of mess. So the person knew he was doing something illegal and his 8 month old kid was beaten up and you feel he paid the price and now No Problem and he should move on ???????????

Somehow, this 2 + 2 isnt equating 4 for me. What am I missing here ?

Sorry Chandu but I'm disappointed with you right now.

You misunderstood my point here. Everyone are doing things at their own risk and must be ready to face any consequences.

Our friend did know she was on tourist visa and illegal to work.

Let me explain what is happening on sulekha

You have some people advertising that they provide nannies for elderly care, child care, they provide food on daily basis and also provide cooks for occasions, services ranging from janitor work, to helping with groceries and all sorts of stuff.

This industry is big - very very big. Some agencies did tell us they have nannies on j1 visa.

We on this forum who are very vocal are the most innocent folks in the world when it comes to this kind of stuff and we have a straight tangential approach of punish someone for beating the kid.

Well - lets use our brains instead. Believe me - our community does not have any sympathy, because we are not united.

People can come on this forum and give advises - but the person who implements it must know what he can expect and that's why he posted here. Our friend is on h1b and maybe having his 485 pending and he must have careful thoughts before he leaps into something.

What is the guarantee that a certified nanny wont ill treat the child. I have heard that nannies need not beat the child but do give mild sedation to babies in their milk so that the nanny can be in peace. If a nanny is doing that do you think she will be caught on tape?

There are tons of things nannies do and you may never be aware of it or may not be caught on video tape.

[hopefulgc]

To all those who are advising Mr. thunderbolt to not do anything and keep looking into their son's eyes for the rest of their lives thinking.... "I let someone beat you up when you were an infant and didn't do jack"... here is another one.

Say, instead you had a daughter who is about 9 yrs old. You hired some Indian dude on tourist visa to mow your lawn & you hire this dude coz he charges way less.One day, you witness this dude violating your daughter physically.

What do you do now? Is this situation different. The baby situation is worse.

I have no kids yet, but it pisses me off that people here would let a child abuser get away coz it might interfere with their american dream.

[chanduv23]

To all those who are advising Mr. thunderbolt to not do anything and keep looking into their son's eyes for the rest of their lives thinking.... "I let someone beat you up when you were an infant and didn't do jack"... here is another one.

Say, instead you had a daughter who is about 9 yrs old. You hired some Indian dude on tourist visa to mow your lawn & you hire this dude coz he charges way less.One day, you witness this dude violating your daughter physically.

What do you do now? Is this situation different. The baby situation is worse.

I have no kids yet, but it pisses me off that people here would let a child abuser get away coz it might interfere with their american dream.

Tell me. Why should someone hire a illegal nanny in the first place? Knowing the consequences, why should they come on this forum and ask for support?

I strongly recommend thunderbolt to post the video on youtube and share it with all of us. He can share the link on sulekha also.

Well - it is his choice if he wants to complain to the police.

I am sure mr thunderbolt will never go to the cops because of his immigration status

[chanduv23]

Are you really the father of this child?
I doubt it.
Because if you were a father, you would have protected your son and gone to the cops.

If he goes to cops what happens to his 485? He is worried that's why he is on this forum - I think he was looking for posters with similar experiences and whether complaining to cops worked or not.

[sugaur]

1. Fire the nanny
2. Go to the cops ASAP with the camera. Dont let your greed for a GC stand in the way of doing whats right for your own child. Civil cases are separate from immigration and you should be fine.
If you dont report her, you will loose the respect of your wife (irrespective of what she says) and yourself.

[hpandey]

If he goes to cops what happens to his 485? He is worried that's why he is on this forum - I think he was looking for posters with similar experiences and whether complaining to cops worked or not.


Is 485 the sole purpose of our life now ? Personally I don't give a damn about the GC if I have to see my family suffer and I don't think any crime can be worse than seeing an adult abusing an infant who can't protect himself and not doing something about it.

[hopefulgc]

Did anybody stop to think that maybe Mr. thunderbolt is just pulling a fast one on all of us.

I mean .. it hard to believe that a parent would think twice before reporting a matter like this.





Tell me. Why should someone hire a illegal nanny in the first place? Knowing the consequences, why should they come on this forum and ask for support?

I strongly recommend thunderbolt to post the video on youtube and share it with all of us. He can share the link on sulekha also.

Well - it is his choice if he wants to complain to the police.

I am sure mr thunderbolt will never go to the cops because of his immigration status

[chanduv23]

Is 485 the sole purpose of our life now ? Personally I don't give a damn about the GC if I have to see my family suffer and I don't think any crime can be worse than seeing an adult abusing an infant who can't protect himself and not doing something about it.

Do you want to let a illegal nanny dictate your situation? Your unfortunate situation because you hired a illegal nanny which resulted in your child get beaten up further mess you?

Come on man - this is called knee jerk reaction - I can understand the anger because no one will tolerate beating children.

If something has to be done from now on in this IV community - write blogs about hiring nannies, and also warn people about what is happening on sulekha and ads on grocery stores etc... Ask people to be wary of all this. Such awareness will reduce these kind of incidents.

For our friend, it is his choice

[vxg]

I really feel sorry to read this post and the Nanny must be punished for this however as everyone else said you may get into legal trouble if you do report it. My own son is now 5 years old and we use day care services and one of the reason i hate the Nanny concept legal or illegal is because of this abuse and qualifications of the nanny. I strongly suggest find a day care which is reputed has a structured curriculum. Go visit the place and check for cleanliness, talk to the staff etc. Remember some of the day care also bad in terms of hygiene etc. but almost none of them would risk their license by abusing a child. Agreed the child get sick a lot but as immune system develops they get over it and my son really enjoyed all the activities at day care. Nanny at home cannot provide activities needed to keep a child busy thus abuse can happen.
Again i am really sorry to hear. I still think you can anonymously report to DHS or police that the nanny is working illegally if you can do it that way she will get deported and may never get a visa to US.

Hello guys,
Sorry for this non-immigration related post. We have this sudden, tragic situation that I wanted all of your advice on. Thank you for your time in reading this long post.

We had hired an Indian nanny in NJ who, we learnt after hiring her, is here on a tourist visa. We were paying her $350 per week cash, which is the standard rate around here for nannies (incl. citizens and people on GC). We had liked her when we met her in response to an ad on Sulekha, and we thought an Indian nanny would be good for our first child. She has been with us for about 3 months, and we were intermittently not getting a good feeling with her for some reason. We finally bought a small security camera and installed it yesterday. On the very first day with the camera, we came home and saw the recorded video to find that she is violently hitting the baby on two separate occasions. Needless to say, it has shocked, angered and extremely saddened us. I showed the video to a couple of friends and even they say it is unbearable to watch. This was just the first day of recording and it pains us tremendously to think what all may have happened previously.
She is of course not going to stay with the baby alone anymore, but I want to know what legal options I have to penalize her to the fullest extent, so that she does not do this to anybody else’s small babies. She it seems had come here last year and taken care of someone else’s baby in Hoboken, and I can imagine that their baby also went through this. (This woman and her husband are a ~ 35 year old couple, who have a multiple entry ten year tourist visa; both come here for 6 months every year and work odd jobs like this. They apparently got a (unsponsored) tourist visa after showing a lot of landed property in India).
I specifically want to know if I will have potential problems if I go to law enforcement about this- regarding have employed her (both of us are on H1B visas). I know we have made mistakes and should have done better due diligence in this, and there cannot be any more punishment for us than seeing our 8 month old – who cannot tell us about it when we come home- being beaten on the tapes. We saw this yesterday and have not told her yet. We want to weigh all options before we proceed, but from today onwards one of us is home all the time till Friday. Any advice or opinion is sincerely appreciated. Thanks for reading this long post. And, to all who are thinking of nannies or have one, please learn from our mistakes and closely monitor your child’s safety every day.

[alias]

I say again, go to the cops. I understand you did wrong when you hired an illegal immigrant, paid her in cash, etc. It shows your wrong intentions. But in all honesty, that argument is mute, you are not responsible to verify someone's immigration status, I bet you can argue that with an attorney. You are dealing with a much more serious issue here. I pity the guys who suggest not to complain. Either they don’t know what their son means to them, or they have simply messed up their life prioritizing GC over every thing else.

I don't support hiring an illegal nanny or getting someone from India. But what is done is past. Bigger crime here is someone hit your son. If I were you I would have made her life hell, I would have gone till any extent to make her realize what she did. I give a damn about the GC. My first priority is my child. If someone adult hits my child and I come to know about it...I am his dad for god sake. Protect your son so he can call you dad.

Hello guys,
Sorry for this non-immigration related post. We have this sudden, tragic situation that I wanted all of your advice on. Thank you for your time in reading this long post.

[insbaby]

Do you want to let a illegal nanny dictate your situation? Your unfortunate situation because you hired a illegal nanny which resulted in your child get beaten up further mess you?


Thats what happening here...

[s_r_e_e]

You cannot expect to report the crime/video to the cops without any repercussions for yourself. It is a federal felony to hire a foreigner without employment authorization (even if the person is not an illegal immigrant) - this means, if you are convicted, you can end up in prison, lose your property, pay fines and of course you will be deported. If you have been paying them and did not disclose this to the IRS, both you and they are liable for tax fraud, in addition. This is very serious. You should hire a lawyer if you want to deal with them legally.

I wonder where does people come up with such detailed info from. federal felony, lose your property , wow!!!! Even big corps hiring illegals getting away with just fines. Law Enforcement do not worry about the immigration status of the person. I know 2 incidents where my friends got in to car accidents with illegals . the other parties had no license, No id and No insurance. In both cases the cops weren't even bothered about their immigration status even though it was clear that they are illegals. cops gave ticket in some pseudo name they gave and they got away with no trace left.

[immiusa]

Hello Mr Thunderbold,

I can imagine your situation. Feel sorry to know that your 8 month old baby was beaten badly. Going to cops will definitely help you. She will be punished. Probably, she will be deported back to india and ban to USA. But, it may lead to put into you troubles for hiring illegal immigrant, for paying cash and not reporting to IRS. They may even review your tax returns for the past 3 years.

[Better_Days]

Hello guys,
Sorry for this non-immigration related post. We have this sudden, tragic
..... one, please learn from our mistakes and closely monitor your child’s safety every day.

For the love of God, there are things that you go and post on the Internet to get people's opinion and there are things that you don't! Unlike some others here, I don't want to too judgmental (something we, as a people, excel at) as everyones situation and experiences in life are different. But here is what you need to do ASAP. I mean right now and today: get out of your office if you have to but go out and do it right now.

1. Go talk to an immigrant attorney immediately. You need to assess your liabilities in this situation. If you are at fault, you need to improvise a defense strategy and IMMIGRATION VOICE IS NOT THE FORUM FOR THIS!!!!

2. Immediately talk to a criminal defense attorney. The fact that you know about child abuse and have not reported it yet is a SERIOUS, SERIOUS, SERIOUS,....., SERIOUS issue. It varies from state to state but not reporting child abuse may or may not be a crime IF you an establish that you took immediate steps to protect the child from the abuser. Again, this depends on how zealous the prosecutor and child protection services are.

Depending on how your attorney advises you, proceed to inform the authorities.

Trust me man, I have done projects with state and county level agencies and this is serious stuff and you need to act now to get in the driving seat. Inaction is NOT an option.

Best of luck and may God protect every child out there.

-Better_Days

[arbhaat]

Do you want to let a illegal nanny dictate your situation? Your unfortunate situation because you hired a illegal nanny which resulted in your child get beaten up further mess you?


Thant's just a substance-less argument guys.
The question is whom do you want to be dictating the terms of your life? - (illegal) Nanny, your (legal) immigrant status in the foreign country or your own set of values/principles/views? take a pick.

[chanduv23]

For the love of God, there are things that you go and post on the Internet to get people's opinion and there are things that you don't! Unlike some others here, I don't want to too judgmental (something we, as a people, excel at) as everyones situation and experiences in life are different. But here is what you need to do ASAP. I mean right now and today: get out of your office if you have to but go out and do it right now.

1. Go talk to an immigrant attorney immediately. You need to assess your liabilities in this situation. If you are at fault, you need to improvise a defense strategy and IMMIGRATION VOICE IS NOT THE FORUM FOR THIS!!!!

2. Immediately talk to a criminal defense attorney. The fact that you know about child abuse and have not reported it yet is a SERIOUS, SERIOUS, SERIOUS,....., SERIOUS issue. It varies from state to state but not reporting child abuse may or may not be a crime IF you an establish that you took immediate steps to protect the child from the abuser. Again, this depends on how zealous the prosecutor and child protection services are.

Depending on how your attorney advises you, proceed to inform the authorities.

Trust me man, I have done projects with state and county level agencies and this is serious stuff and you need to act now to get in the driving seat. Inaction is NOT an option.

Best of luck and may God protect every child out there.

-Better_Days

Well said. the person needs to know his liabilities. He has to go to proper authorities. IV forum is not the place.

This person can help the community by posting warnings on IV and other blogs including sulekha or other places - cn also post the video on internet and share it , if he wishes to

[insbaby]

I wonder where does people come up with such detailed info from. federal felony, lose your property , wow!!!! Even big corps hiring illegals getting away with just fines. Law Enforcement do not worry about the immigration status of the person. I know 2 incidents where my friends got in to car accidents with illegals . the other parties had no license, No id and No insurance. In both cases the cops weren't even bothered about their immigration status even though it was clear that they are illegals. cops gave ticket in some pseudo name they gave and they got away with no trace left.

Yes. Thats a little strong vocabulary. But he is not completely incorrect.

When cops caught illegals, what you have mentioned is correct. The situation is very different when they see a legal, non-immigrant commiting a very small violation. You will see a more strong vocabulary from them which you could not get meaning in any dictionary. Of course, you can get out of this, but not by yourself, but after paying a lot to a lawyer.

[jamesbond007]

Go to the authorities and report her.
H1 is a temporary situation. Your family is permanent. Protect your family.

Do not let the fear of social services coming to check on you from stopping to do the right thing. They have a job to do; they will not take away a child unless they really believe that the child is not being cared for. They do not want to add to the strain of foster care system which is already under stress.

Law enforcement agencies also monitor sites like IV, Rajiv Khanna etc. And they can get a subpoena against IV to get your information if they suspect that a crime has taken place.

Everyone: please please ... You should not only check for the cleanliness and background of the staff (and facility) who take care of your kid. Also make sure that their way of taking care of your kid meets your expectation. Do not make any assumptions. Ask pointed questions and get certain answers.

Also... I feel that there is more to the story than what the OP has said in his one and only posting.
I think he/she already went past the point to think "what will happen to me" when they hired someone knowing that she was not legally eligible to work/provide that service.
If not them reporting that nanny, her next victim will report her. I strongly believe that, if she is used to that way of raising a kid, she will hit other kids in the future. And they will be exposed at that point when the authorities grill her to spill the beans on her previous employers.

I am also afraid that the OP might take matters into his/her own by making an emotional decision; and that would put him in hot water.

chanduv: I read your post about how you hired a nanny based on your parent's monitoring her behaviour around your kid when they were visiting you. I hope that was not the only criteria for you to choose her. Keep in mind that a person's behaviour when they are alone speaks of their true nature. They can behave nice and good when they have company; but do they continue to be the same when there is no adult around them?
Definitely install a nanny cam that you/yourwife can keep checking from work.

Sorry if I sound like I am picking on you Chandu. But when I read your post, I felt that there might be other families who have done the same thing as you did.

[chanduv23]

Go to the authorities and report her.
H1 is a temporary situation. Your family is permanent. Protect your family.

Do not let the fear of social services coming to check on you from stopping to do the right thing. They have a job to do; they will not take away a child unless they really believe that the child is not being cared for. They do not want to add to the strain of foster care system which is already under stress.

Law enforcement agencies also monitor sites like IV, Rajiv Khanna etc. And they can get a subpoena against IV to get your information if they suspect that a crime has taken place.

Everyone: please please ... You should not only check for the cleanliness and background of the staff (and facility) who take care of your kid. Also make sure that their way of taking care of your kid meets your expectation. Do not make any assumptions. Ask pointed questions and get certain answers.

Also... I feel that there is more to the story than what the OP has said in his one and only posting.
I think he/she already went past the point to think "what will happen to me" when they hired someone knowing that she was not legally eligible to work/provide that service.
If not them reporting that nanny, her next victim will report her. I strongly believe that, if she is used to that way of raising a kid, she will hit other kids in the future. And they will be exposed at that point when the authorities grill her to spill the beans on her previous employers.

I am also afraid that the OP might take matters into his/her own by making an emotional decision; and that would put him in hot water.

chanduv: I read your post about how you hired a nanny based on your parent's monitoring her behaviour around your kid when they were visiting you. I hope that was not the only criteria for you to choose her. Keep in mind that a person's behaviour when they are alone speaks of their true nature. They can behave nice and good when they have company; but do they continue to be the same when there is no adult around them?
Definitely install a nanny cam that you/yourwife can keep checking from work.

Sorry if I sound like I am picking on you Chandu. But when I read your post, I felt that there might be other families who have done the same thing as you did.

After going through this thread - I just spoke to my wife about installing a nannycam :) though she strongly feels it may not be necessary because she has developed some kind of friendship with the nanny, but I will definitely install a nannycam.

[ItIsNotFunny]

Guys,

I saw there are 50 replied to this post. Looks like people are more interested in others problems than their own.

Its pity that MOST CRITICAL issue we are facing at present - AC21 Denial issue, is having only 77 mails but everyone is jumping gossipping. Come out of this and show a unity to real problems.

Grow up and don't escape from real problems. Its our problem and we need to fight to resolve it.

[americandesi]

Let’s not assume things here. This person didn't even mention that his I-485 is pending.

Now let’s get rational rather than getting emotional. Here's the "Handbook for Employers" published by USCIS

http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/m-274.pdf

Refer the following from Page (3) on I-9 requirements

These requirements apply to all employers, including:

1. Agricultural associations, agricultural employers or farm labor contractors who employ, recruit or refer people for a fee; and

2. Those who employ anyone for domestic work in their private home on a regular basis (such as every week).


Refer the following from Page (17) and (18) on Criminal Penalties

2. Criminal Penalties

a. Engaging in a pattern or practice of knowingly hiring or continuing to employ unauthorized aliens

Persons or entities who are convicted of having engaged in a pattern or practice of knowingly hiring unauthorized aliens (or continuing to employ aliens knowing that they are or have become unauthorized to work in the United States) after
November 6, 1986, may face fines of up to $3,000 per employee and/or six months imprisonment.


So the worst that could happen is that our friend ends up paying $3,000. Also note that I-485 will be in trouble if and only if the prison term in more than 1 year (or) if the beneficiary had failed to include his arrest record on his I-485 application. Besides that, there are many waivers available for first time convictions.

When USCIS is protecting illegal aliens through "U Visas", wouldn't they be considerate on a case involving the baby of a legal alien?

Going by the above, it makes sense for "thunderbolt" to take help from a qualified attorney and report this case to cops. Posting the video in youtube or bashing the Nanny is Sulekha/citysearch is all fine. But when you child grows up and asks what you did when he was abused as by the nanny, you don't wanna answer "Dear child! I took the video footage of the abuse, showed it to my friends and posted it on you tube and then I bashed her with my comments on sulekha/citysearch."

Hence if there's any justice to be done for the poor soul who couldn't even express himself, then take the evil nanny to cops. Or else you're just letting everyone to walk all over you like a doormat.

[Deepika]

To thunderbolt,

Being a mother of a 9 month old baby i can understand what is going on in u now. First thing i feel is u have to some how get rid of her. I feel u have done a wrong thing first of hiring her. And how can u justify you paying her in cash. So i feel let her go. But then after she left what you should do is in your local websites and ads put up your review and video on her. And that would help another child being treated the way your baby was.
Why i feel that will help is, because i was looking for some kind of care for my baby and i did a 3 months complete survey on what is the right to do. So i am sure any mother will do the same thing in your local area and would come across your video and review.

[copsmart]

Thunderbolt,

First of all, child abusers must not go unpunished.

You are at fault for knowingly hiring an undocumented worker, and you must face the consequences.
If you fail to report this abuse to the authorities, then you must be prepared to face more problems at a later time.

If not you, somebody else will take this matter to the cops, and that person could even be me. Sorry!!!
My advice to you is to talk to an Attorney ASAP, and take this matter to the law enforcement.

I feel sorry for your situation, but you have no choice.

[GCmuddu_H1BVaddu]

I would suggest not to go to COPS, if those folks are working any where else just call immigration authorities and report anonymously that they are working in USA illegally.

[copsmart]

I would suggest not to go to COPS, if those folks are working any where else just call immigration authorities and report anonymously that they are working in USA illegally.


What have you been smoking lately?

If they are caught, then Mr. thunderbolt is the one who is going to be in big trouble.
He is better off now rather than getting into trouble later.

[insbaby]

Thunderbolt,
If not you, somebody else will take this matter to the cops, and that person could even be me. Sorry!!!
I feel sorry for your situation, but you have no choice.

He might be thinking that the biggest mistake he has done so far is, came to IV for suggestions!!!

[reddog]

Okay, so many posts, which means we are a community and feel strongly about a community members pain, which means we can be called united.

On the issue:
Two different points.
1) the nanny abusing the child.
2) the nanny is on visitors visa.

First and foremost, check your camera frame capture rate. Is it possible that what appears hitting to you, might be patting?
And why i ask that question is expained below.

But first,
This is the IRS sites take on nannies.
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p926/ar02.html
Nannies are independent workers and on illegal aliens it says you 'It is unlawful for you knowingly to hire or continue to employ an alien who cannot legally work in the United States. '
I have a nanny, and I never asked her about her status.

Do not forgive her, but then, remember, the punishment for her could be very severe, imprisonment of 15 years.

here is a case of a home nanny abuse, where the nanny was illegal:
http://www.nbc6.net/video/2551996/index.html

The nanny pleaded innocent, still got 6 years, state abruptly dropped charges after the nanny spent 3 years in jail. She has now sued the camera mfg. as the nanny cam captured only 5.5 frames per second, as opposed to the 30 frames of video cameras, with the result that the nanny’s movements with her infant charge might have appeared abnormally jerky and violent.

On the above case, I am sure the parents would have claimed that they never knew about the legal status of the nanny. Cos they are not in trouble.

So in your case, as you are the victime, you will not be in trouble, law is blind.

Personally, I would ask myself, How hard was the abuse? I know abuse is abuse, but then, where we come from, hitting is not that uncommon. After getting rid of her, post her video on youtube, and post it on Digg.com/reddit.com. ask her to surrender everything you ve paid her in the past and ask the couple to leave the country and never come back.

[desi485]

Guys,

I saw there are 50 replied to this post. Looks like people are more interested in others problems than their own.

Its pity that MOST CRITICAL issue we are facing at present - AC21 Denial issue, is having only 77 mails but everyone is jumping gossipping. Come out of this and show a unity to real problems.

Grow up and don't escape from real problems. Its our problem and we need to fight to resolve it.

Well said ItIsNotFunny. Nothing wrong ppl spend time on this thread, but they should send IV AC21 letters first. Its not even 2$ expense as some one else specified on other thread.

[copsmart]

He might be thinking that the biggest mistake he has done so far is, came to IV for suggestions!!!

I am glad he came to IV for suggestion, if not we couldn’t have learned about this dreadful situation.

People who say not to go to the cops, need some lessons on Criminal Negligence and Obstruction of Justice charges.

[Junky]

Well said "ItIsNotFunny",
I have seen lot of ppl wine about the Dec bulletin, inefficiency of USCIS, cursing IV, EB2 Vs EB3, exploitation by Desi Employers, leaving negative comments ETC. ETC.... but when it comes to just sending letters, they won't do it but some how they will manage to find the time to reply non-immigration related issues in very detail.
Therefore I request all the members to please send the letter (regarding AC21 Denial issue) ASAP.
BTW: As a father, I fully sympathize with this guy & understand his situation. Whatever happened to his kid is tragic but again as mentioned by few other members, he should have posted this issue on sulekha or some other websites.

Guys,

I saw there are 50 replied to this post. Looks like people are more interested in others problems than their own.

Its pity that MOST CRITICAL issue we are facing at present - AC21 Denial issue, is having only 77 mails but everyone is jumping gossipping. Come out of this and show a unity to real problems.

Grow up and don't escape from real problems. Its our problem and we need to fight to resolve it.

[vnsriv]

It's very sad to hear this story.Please read this article before making any decision. This is also helpful for rest of us.

http://www.divinecaroline.com/article/22129/35503-household-employment-101--employ-nanny

[drak70]

Hello guys,
On the very first day with the camera, we came home and saw the recorded video to find that she is violently hitting the baby on two separate occasions.

She is of course not going to stay with the baby alone anymore
Hi I think you need to go to the cops for this reason

1) You have evidence of child abuse(video of the nanny severally beating a child in state of new Jersey)

"Approximately 18 States and Puerto Rico require all citizens to report suspected abuse or neglect, regardless of profession."

Ref: Mandatory Reporters of Child Abuse and Neglect
Child Welfare Information Gateway www.childwelfare.gov
http://www.thefreedomresource.org/documents/mandatorychildabusereporting.pdf

2) IMHO even immigrationvoice.org bears responsibility of duty to warn.You have evidence that child is still being kep under care of namny who may abuse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_warn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarasoff_v._Regents_of_the_University_of_Californi a



Immigration and CHild abuse are different matter but they are both prosecuted by the same US attorneys. going after you for hiring an illegal alien" ie. prosecuting parents of child abuse may not be in their best interest either

[BECsufferer]

First of all hiring someone on tourist visa was illegal, You had not thought about the safety of your child while doing it and without proper background check or reference checks hiring someone for nanny or anything like that involving children can be risky. There are instances of abuse which certainly will go un noticed.

From a legal perspective, Did u have a written contract for nanny, even if you sue the person you might not be able to recover anything and hiring an illegal may land you in trouble.

You can file for prosecution under child abuse and I am sure this case would be prosecuted legally, even though the care provider was un-licensed and illegal alien. Your proof however (video recording someone without consent) may be disputed.

But the bigger question is your admission of entering into contract with individual not permitted by law to engage into such contracts. This might be mis-denemor or something greater. Check your legal options first.

[insbaby]

People have given me reds for asking the dad to go to the cops and reminding this dad his duties.
I think these people who have given me reds only know how to produce many babies but do not know that it comes with a responsibility. Shame on you and to all those who live a life of fear and teach the same on this forum.

Tell me something, if you have an illegal gardener/cleaning guy/moving helper/carpenter/plumber/handyman/male babysitter etc in your house and you have employed him for his servicesand he rapes your wife. Will you not go to the cops? Or will you sit tight at home and just post on the forum saying that you are an H1B and you fear that your H1 and greencard application will be revoked. If you still feel that not going to the cops is a better option, then I do not think your wife deserves a Man like you and certainly not a impotent person like you.

I find posts on this thread very repulsive and cannot hold back these strong words.

Great Internet.

Without knowing whether such an insident happened or not, you can talk this much.

1. There have been no evidences so far.
2. Don't know whether the thread creator is the parent or nanny.
3. Don't know whether it could be someone just want us to engagge in some sensitive arguments.

I support you on going to cops, but prepare in advance to handle the backfire.

[caforum2]

First of all, It is funny that the guy who knowingly broke the law want help of law when he is victim. Now all of us know why laws are made in first place and why everyone should follow it.

Secondly, Beating the dead horse again, Thunderbolt should go to cops and give evidence of child abuse asap.

In terms of risking the case of hiring illegal for a job by going to the cops in my mind is a non issue. Because, he is exposed to that risk with or without going to cops himself. What if Nanny gets caught working illegal in some other home and she gives all names she worked for including thunderbolt. He has done a mistake and he should hire best attorney to plead that case if it ever comes up either by him reporting child abuse or some other way.

[whiteStallion]

Very good link..

It's very sad to hear this story.Please read this article before making any decision. This is also helpful for rest of us.

http://www.divinecaroline.com/article/22129/35503-household-employment-101--employ-nanny

[Norristown]

Thunderbolt,
Be prepared !!
Cops will knock your door very soon, because you have opened personal and sensitive issue to public.
IV members are already hungry...!!

[Refugee_New]

Hello guys,
Sorry for this non-immigration related post. We have this sudden, tragic situation that I wanted all of your advice on. Thank you for your time in reading this long post.

We had hired an Indian nanny in NJ who, we learnt after hiring her, is here on a tourist visa. We were paying her $350 per week cash, which is the standard rate around here for nannies (incl. citizens and people on GC). We had liked her when we met her in response to an ad on Sulekha, and we thought an Indian nanny would be good for our first child. She has been with us for about 3 months, and we were intermittently not getting a good feeling with her for some reason. We finally bought a small security camera and installed it yesterday. On the very first day with the camera, we came home and saw the recorded video to find that she is violently hitting the baby on two separate occasions. Needless to say, it has shocked, angered and extremely saddened us. I showed the video to a couple of friends and even they say it is unbearable to watch. This was just the first day of recording and it pains us tremendously to think what all may have happened previously.
She is of course not going to stay with the baby alone anymore, but I want to know what legal options I have to penalize her to the fullest extent, so that she does not do this to anybody else’s small babies. She it seems had come here last year and taken care of someone else’s baby in Hoboken, and I can imagine that their baby also went through this. (This woman and her husband are a ~ 35 year old couple, who have a multiple entry ten year tourist visa; both come here for 6 months every year and work odd jobs like this. They apparently got a (unsponsored) tourist visa after showing a lot of landed property in India).
I specifically want to know if I will have potential problems if I go to law enforcement about this- regarding have employed her (both of us are on H1B visas). I know we have made mistakes and should have done better due diligence in this, and there cannot be any more punishment for us than seeing our 8 month old – who cannot tell us about it when we come home- being beaten on the tapes. We saw this yesterday and have not told her yet. We want to weigh all options before we proceed, but from today onwards one of us is home all the time till Friday. Any advice or opinion is sincerely appreciated. Thanks for reading this long post. And, to all who are thinking of nannies or have one, please learn from our mistakes and closely monitor your child’s safety every day.

Thunderbold, Sorry for your situation. Here is my observation/suggestion.

Being an immigrant you have broken the law by hiring someone to work illegally. Didn't you and your wife break the law?

You have already witnessed a child abuse and now pondering whether to report this to a law enforcement or not. Again you are breaking the law by not reporting a child abuse. Remember, abetting a crime is also a crime.

This country has given us so much including good wealth and health(except GC) and we enjoy every thing, but in return what we do is to do these kind of illegal activities.

This country let us and our spouse to work, make hell lot of money. I am not saying we are making easy money, but after having two incomes, we run around with coupons and look for cheap things or do things that are cheap. WHY?

What are we going to do with that money man? This is nothing but a greediness.

Anyway, your child has gone thru a nightmare and as a parent/father you MUST report this to a law enforcement office. You can not let this child abuser go scot-free.

Note: When you can hire a nanny that is legal/citizen for $350/week, then why did you hire someone illegal?

[insbaby]

Thunderbold, Sorry for your situation. Here is my observation/suggestion.

Being an immigrant you have broken the law by hiring someone to work illegally. Didn't you and your wife break the law?

You have already witnessed a child abuse and now pondering whether to report this to a law enforcement or not. Again you are breaking the law by not reporting a child abuse. Remember, abetting a crime is also a crime.

This country has given us so much including good wealth and health(except GC) and we enjoy every thing, but in return what we do is to do these kind of illegal activities.

This country let us and our spouse to work, make hell lot of money. I am not saying we are making easy money, but after having two incomes, we run around with coupons and look for cheap things or do things that are cheap. WHY?

What are we going to do with that money man? This is nothing but a greediness.

Anyway, your child has gone thru a nightmare and as a parent/father you MUST report this to a law enforcement office. You can not let this child abuser go scot-free.

Note: When you can hire a nanny that is legal/citizen for $350/week, then why did you hire someone illegal?

Thats absolutely correct.

And we are sending letters to USCIS saying they don't follow AC-21 rules (not law) properly !!!

[thunderbolt]

Hi all:

Thanks for all your advice and understanding. I could not post earlier as we were busy following up the case with the authorities. I have two lawyers on board and a wonderful, unexpected, child abuse NGO person helping us deal with the situation. Most importantly, the baby is in perfect condition after having everything scanned and reviewed with two pediatricians….it is possible, as one person helping us mentioned that the rough handling may appear exaggerated on the video bcos low resolution cameras sometimes exaggerate slower movements into sudden and forceful movements (I don’t fully understand)- which is also ok w/ me as my child having been safe is more imp to me....at the minimum she will be deported and barred from entry, or likely fully convicted and behind bars...from what I have heard till now, we will likely not be penalized as there are some protection and immunities in these cases for those who testify (and most certainly INS will never be involved)…and at most there may be some fines…
....and to some others who have misread a few things I mentioned: a/ the baby did not remain with the nanny for even a second after we suspected something fishy b/ we were not saving money with this nanny: 350$ (plus food, commute, and phone cards is above average here even for a legal worker. Also we selected her after observing her (and earlier another nanny) at home for 2 weeks with the baby while my mom-in-law was there and all of us had felt for some reason that she was the better one……..and to everybody with kids: no matter how much you trust your nanny, however well referenced they are- use a nannycam….you may amazed at what you see….there is something about having the whole house to yourself with an infant that makes some people crazy- so that their suppressed anger/envy and whatever else is hidden comes out on a poor speechless baby.

[punjabi]

I guess I wrote my reply a little late. Anyway, I am happy it is getting resolved for you.
:)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

Reading your forum is scary and disturbing. I myself have 7 month old baby and I can imagine how a parent would feel in this situation.

My advice:

1. Keep your cool.
2. Get rid of that lady.
3. Whatever beating/scolding she has done to your child, it is past. Children are much resilient and recover easily and faster than we adults in case of physical and mental suppression.
4. See, if your parents can come for few months to support you.
5. Send your child to a good day care or hire a recommended nanny from a referral.

Not all nannies are bad. And next time, hire a nanny in a legal manner.

Good luck.


Hello guys,
Sorry for this non-immigration related post. We have this sudden, tragic situation that I wanted all of your advice on. Thank you for your time in reading this long post.

We had hired an Indian nanny in NJ who.....
......
.....

[ItIsNotFunny]

People have given me reds for asking the dad to go to the cops and reminding this dad his duties.
I think these people who have given me reds only know how to produce many babies but do not know that it comes with a responsibility. Shame on you and to all those who live a life of fear and teach the same on this forum.

Tell me something, if you have an illegal gardener/cleaning guy/moving helper/carpenter/plumber/handyman/male babysitter etc in your house and you have employed him for his servicesand he rapes your wife. Will you not go to the cops? Or will you sit tight at home and just post on the forum saying that you are an H1B and you fear that your H1 and greencard application will be revoked. If you still feel that not going to the cops is a better option, then I do not think your wife deserves a Man like you and certainly not a impotent person like you.

I find posts on this thread very repulsive and cannot hold back these strong words.


Your language is too rude.

[GCKaMaara]

Hi all:

Thanks for all your advice and understanding. I could not post earlier as we were busy following up the case with the authorities. I have two lawyers on board and a wonderful, unexpected, child abuse NGO person helping us deal with the situation. Most importantly, the baby is in perfect condition after having everything scanned and reviewed with two pediatricians….it is possible, as one person helping us mentioned that the rough handling may appear exaggerated on the video bcos low resolution cameras sometimes exaggerate slower movements into sudden and forceful movements (I don’t fully understand)- which is also ok w/ me as my child having been safe is more imp to me....at the minimum she will be deported and barred from entry, or likely fully convicted and behind bars...from what I have heard till now, we will likely not be penalized as there are some protection and immunities in these cases for those who testify (and most certainly INS will never be involved)…and at most there may be some fines…
....and to some others who have misread a few things I mentioned: a/ the baby did not remain with the nanny for even a second after we suspected something fishy b/ we were not saving money with this nanny: 350$ (plus food, commute, and phone cards is above average here even for a legal worker. Also we selected her after observing her (and earlier another nanny) at home for 2 weeks with the baby while my mom-in-law was there and all of us had felt for some reason that she was the better one……..and to everybody with kids: no matter how much you trust your nanny, however well referenced they are- use a nannycam….you may amazed at what you see….there is something about having the whole house to yourself with an infant that makes some people crazy- so that their suppressed anger/envy and whatever else is hidden comes out on a poor speechless baby.

Happy ending. The End.

[ItIsNotFunny]

Happy ending. The End.

Perfect. I like this.

[insbaby]

Mr.Thunderbolt,

Congratulations!! You did a very good job and becoming an example.

Please educate every one you meet in your community, friends circle and help others who do not know the laws and risking their kids life.

The thread has been filled up with mixed responses of some threatening, supporting, uncontrollable anger and attacking, don't bother much, as it is a way for ourselves get educated, because most of us here have kids same age as yours.

Great work!!!

[copsmart]

Thunderbolt,

I am glad you finally did the right thing for you and your beloved baby.
I hope you get out of the case with less or no damage to your immigrant status.

Sorry, I was so harsh on my other message, in insbaby’s own words: “threatening”.

Take care and good luck.

[dilbert_cal]

Please DO NOT post the video on Youtube. I fail to understand what good is the video going to do - its another matter to post the nanny's pics and probably on Sulekha or other sites - I'm still not able to convince myself if that will be required now that law authorities are involved - but the idea to post the actual video - what the hell is this - dont know what folks were thinking when they asked you to do so.

Will pray for you and your family - May everything work out better for you folks going forward.

[hpandey]

We are proud of you for doing the right thing. Best of luck and God Bless.

[Humhongekamyab]

I know a lot of people have advised you not to go to the cops but I feel ( I have a young son ) that you should not let anyone who beat your 8 month old kid go unpunished.

I am not a lawyer but from what I have seen about this country justice is not denied . Local cops and Immigration are two separate branches of government . ( ICE enforces immigration issues )

If anyone had beaten my son then my H1b or GC or citizenship would be the last thing on my mind. My opinion - take advise from the lawyer right away.

You have made some mistakes by not checking for the nanny's references and other things but would you let her go scot free just so that she can do it to someone else's kid and maybe cause permanent harm the next time ??

I agree. You should take the advice of a lawyer first. Local cops and immigration are seperate branches. When you report a crime, in my opinion, the cops don't ask you for your immigration status before starting their investigations. Even if they do, they are not going to tell the immigration that a person on H-1B has hired someone who is not authorized to work. It is best to see an good attorney who might change you couple of hundred dollars only.

As hpandey said, the reason she continues to work is because she continues to find jobs with people who are looking for Indian nanny and most of such people are willing to look the other way when it comes to nannys immigration status because the nanny charges less or maybe because the nanny speaks your local language and apart from taking care of your kids also cooks for you while you are out working. If you report her to the cops it will make sure that she and others like her never do such a thing again. It will send a message to all such unauthorized workers to stop misusing their immigration status. Also, you might be able to save other children from similar trauma.

[Humhongekamyab]

I agree. You should take the advice of a lawyer first. Local cops and immigration are seperate branches. When you report a crime, in my opinion, the cops don't ask you for your immigration status before starting their investigations. Even if they do, they are not going to tell the immigration that a person on H-1B has hired someone who is not authorized to work. It is best to see an good attorney who might change you couple of hundred dollars only.

As hpandey said, the reason she continues to work is because she continues to find jobs with people who are looking for Indian nanny and most of such people are willing to look the other way when it comes to nannys immigration status because the nanny charges less or maybe because the nanny speaks your local language and apart from taking care of your kids also cooks for you while you are out working. If you report her to the cops it will make sure that she and others like her never do such a thing again. It will send a message to all such unauthorized workers to stop misusing their immigration status. Also, you might be able to save other children from similar trauma.


Edit: Sorry I did not read all the postings before posting my reply. Thunderbolt you did the right thing. We all are proud of you.

[golgappas]

Hi all:

Thanks for all your advice and understanding. I could not post earlier as we were busy following up the case with the authorities. I have two lawyers on board and a wonderful, unexpected, child abuse NGO person helping us deal with the situation. Most importantly, the baby is in perfect condition after having everything scanned and reviewed with two pediatricians….it is possible, as one person helping us mentioned that the rough handling may appear exaggerated on the video bcos low resolution cameras sometimes exaggerate slower movements into sudden and forceful movements (I don’t fully understand)- which is also ok w/ me as my child having been safe is more imp to me....at the minimum she will be deported and barred from entry, or likely fully convicted and behind bars...from what I have heard till now, we will likely not be penalized as there are some protection and immunities in these cases for those who testify (and most certainly INS will never be involved)…and at most there may be some fines…
....and to some others who have misread a few things I mentioned: a/ the baby did not remain with the nanny for even a second after we suspected something fishy b/ we were not saving money with this nanny: 350$ (plus food, commute, and phone cards is above average here even for a legal worker. Also we selected her after observing her (and earlier another nanny) at home for 2 weeks with the baby while my mom-in-law was there and all of us had felt for some reason that she was the better one……..and to everybody with kids: no matter how much you trust your nanny, however well referenced they are- use a nannycam….you may amazed at what you see….there is something about having the whole house to yourself with an infant that makes some people crazy- so that their suppressed anger/envy and whatever else is hidden comes out on a poor speechless baby.

I rarely post but I have a 9 month old baby and was really upset to hear this. I am so glad you decided to report this and commend you for it. I hpe everything works out and this awful woman can never work near children again. And if I ever consider hiring a nanny I will be sure to get a nannycam

[reddymjm]

http://www.miindia.com/classifieds/details.aspx?rid=43597

[wandmaker]

http://www.miindia.com/classifieds/details.aspx?rid=43597

scary

[whiteStallion]

Good link...
Hope these will help the immigrant community to think twice before hiring a live in nanny!

http://www.miindia.com/classifieds/details.aspx?rid=43597

[ujjwal_p]

Hi all:

Thanks for all your advice and understanding. I could not post earlier as we were busy following up the case with the authorities. I have two lawyers on board and a wonderful, unexpected, child abuse NGO person helping us deal with the situation. Most importantly, the baby is in perfect condition after having everything scanned and reviewed with two pediatricians….it is possible, as one person helping us mentioned that the rough handling may appear exaggerated on the video bcos low resolution cameras sometimes exaggerate slower movements into sudden and forceful movements (I don’t fully understand)- which is also ok w/ me as my child having been safe is more imp to me....at the minimum she will be deported and barred from entry, or likely fully convicted and behind bars...from what I have heard till now, we will likely not be penalized as there are some protection and immunities in these cases for those who testify (and most certainly INS will never be involved)…and at most there may be some fines…
....and to some others who have misread a few things I mentioned: a/ the baby did not remain with the nanny for even a second after we suspected something fishy b/ we were not saving money with this nanny: 350$ (plus food, commute, and phone cards is above average here even for a legal worker. Also we selected her after observing her (and earlier another nanny) at home for 2 weeks with the baby while my mom-in-law was there and all of us had felt for some reason that she was the better one……..and to everybody with kids: no matter how much you trust your nanny, however well referenced they are- use a nannycam….you may amazed at what you see….there is something about having the whole house to yourself with an infant that makes some people crazy- so that their suppressed anger/envy and whatever else is hidden comes out on a poor speechless baby.

Nice job man. I can understand this can be tricky given the immigration hoops that we have to jump through. But as the father of a toddler myself, I must tell you that you did absolutely the right thing. Its not fair, not to you and your wife, your kid nor to other little kids, for that person to have been freely roaming around. The people who inflict that kind of physical abuse on a little baby need to be taken care of without regard to other factors.