given the economy, any H1 thinking about going back to school?

[xstal]

with the VB for ROW EB-3 still not moving anywhere close to Nov 06 (my PD)...I am thinking about going back to school?

485 pending from July VB fiasco, like a lot of people, I am still using my H1B...
just got it renewed back in Oct 08'

but given the current economic situation, I am pondering about going back to school, getting myself more prepared for when the economy finally picks up again (wishful thinking, I know)
instead of wasting my H1 time and risk getting laid off while still on H1, having to scrambled to find a replacement job, etc and etc.

I know I can use my AP and EAD and just abandon the H1, but my AP and EAD was applied back in July 07', so they have both expired already. in this economy, I really don't feel like paying my lawyer some more money to file for them again.

I might as well spend the money on educating myself, no?

what do you guys think?

I lot of people in my industry (architecture) are going back to school...hiding out in academia to avoid the disastrous lay-offs.

and besides, when I get out, I will get a Master and be in EB-2!!! :)
which is current for ROW

got any recommendations for me? cheap school in good city to live?

let's hear everyone's thoughts?

[nojoke]

with the VB for ROW EB-3 still not moving anywhere close to Nov 06 (my PD)...I am thinking about going back to school?

485 pending from July VB fiasco, like a lot of people, I am still using my H1B...
just got it renewed back in Oct 08'

but given the current economic situation, I am pondering about going back to school, getting myself more prepared for when the economy finally picks up again (wishful thinking, I know)
instead of wasting my H1 time and risk getting laid off while still on H1, having to scrambled to find a replacement job, etc and etc.

I know I can use my AP and EAD and just abandon the H1, but my AP and EAD was applied back in July 07', so they have both expired already. in this economy, I really don't feel like paying my lawyer some more money to file for them again.

I might as well spend the money on educating myself, no?

what do you guys think?

I lot of people in my industry (architecture) are going back to school...hiding out in academia to avoid the disastrous lay-offs.

and besides, when I get out, I will get a Master and be in EB-2!!! :)
which is current for ROW

got any recommendations for me? cheap school in good city to live?

let's hear everyone's thoughts?

That is a very good plan. For 2 years it is going to be doom and gloom and fear of losing job. You might as well enjoy college days and prepare yourself for better chances

[crazyghoda]

I'm in a similar sort of boat as you. I'm thinking of doing an MBA as well. However, my situation is a bit more complicated. I got laid off last month and am currently looking for a job. Thankfully I do have a valid EAD (from 485 filing) so atleast I don't have to worry too much about the whole H1B transfer crap.

However, good MBAs are almost 100K or more and with a baby on the way, a mortgage to pay, etc. I dont know how long my savings will hold out. I'm probably living more like a student than most actual students :)

But if you can afford your education and don't have things tying you down, go for it. Its the best time to upgrade yourself. Just make sure your current firm keeps your 140 active (promise them that you will return back after Grad school, etc) and who knows, you may even get your GC while still in college.

[gcdreamer05]

the real answer to your question is based on how much moola (money a.k.a benjamin) you can shell out while being as a student....

If you think you can spend your savings or get a loan or do something and manage for 2 yrs then go ahead and do it.

[kumar1]

MBA might not be the solution of your issues. Please consider these points before going back to school.

Education cost ~ 60k to 80k, sometimes 100k
2 years of wage loss - 150k to 200k depending upon your current salary
2 years of living expenses ~ 60k if you live like a student.
total cost ~ 250k - 300k...yes, Three Hundred Thousand Dollars.

How many years would it take for you to earn it back? Also, after your degree you would realize that 90% of the tier one companies would filter you based on your "NON PERMANENT RESIDENT ALIEN" status. So you would end up with tier2/tier3 company.....might end up doing the same old Java/C++ under a different title making 5k/year more.

My 2 cents.

[ca_immigrant]

I'm in a similar sort of boat as you. I'm thinking of doing an MBA as well. However, my situation is a bit more complicated. I got laid off last month and am currently looking for a job. Thankfully I do have a valid EAD (from 485 filing) so atleast I don't have to worry too much about the whole H1B transfer crap.

However, good MBAs are almost 100K or more and with a baby on the way, a mortgage to pay, etc. I dont know how long my savings will hold out. I'm probably living more like a student than most actual students :)

But if you can afford your education and don't have things tying you down, go for it. Its the best time to upgrade yourself. Just make sure your current firm keeps your 140 active (promise them that you will return back after Grad school, etc) and who knows, you may even get your GC while still in college.


Can you be in school studying and not having a job when you get your GC ? Or does that depend on case by case basis, if you are NOT picked for an interview then your current status during GC/I-485 approval does not matter. If one is called for an interview during the final approval then you need to be on a job ?

[crazyghoda]

I believe that the OP is not looking to do an MBA, but pursue a graduate degree in architecture. I dont think those cost as much as MBAs so his investment may actually yield a good benefit for him.
I agree with you in the case of most other folks who are in a techie profession. An MBA (unless done Part-time while working) may not be entirely worth it in terms of ROI.

MBA might not be the solution of your issues. Please consider these points before going back to school.

[crazyghoda]

Yes I believe you need a job (in the same or similar position as on your Labor) when getting your GC and called for an interview. However, given that a GC is for a future position, one can always argue (using a high priced lawyer) that you are taking a break to study and improve your skills as long as you have a future pending job offer valid when you finish your graduation.
That's why I suggested to the OP if s/he could get his current employer's buy-in to keep the I-140 and hence the position open for him. He could be on a sabbatical earning a Masters Degree while the position is still open for him/her when s/he graduates. Its a decent shot and I believe one can pull it off.

Can you be in school studying and not having a job when you get your GC ? Or does that depend on case by case basis, if you are NOT picked for an interview then your current status during GC/I-485 approval does not matter. If one is called for an interview during the final approval then you need to be on a job ?

[praveenuppaluri]

hi Kumar1

from below, if you have a job, part-time is a very good option and if you are afraid of lay-offs, then there is no income to loose anyway. About this 60K to 80K for MBA for full time student fees, I am in a similar boat (preparing to do my MBA, part time) and wondering why not opt for a public school MBA. if you are on H1B and can continue working, then a part-time is good option and who knows, you might qualify for a in-state fee.
I am on H1B in Atlanta for one full year and I can just pay in-state fee for my part time MBA in Ga.Tech and Ga. State univ. Now, I can go for Emory and shell out 60 - 80K. but how much difference does it make for MBA from Ga.Tech and MBA from Emory or any private school (full time or part time ?). Living exp is relative term and changes on many factors (living w/ or w/o roomies, location etc etc).

there are many ways in which one can quantify going to school (MBA). I made my math and its adding up - part time in Ga. Tech (ranked in top 20) is $30 K - with in-state fee, not loosing any income as I am working and living exp are something I have to pay anyway.. so, I guess I am in a best case scenario here. but everyone can look at local public schools for a decent MBA program and get in-state if possible. the burden will be much much less.

my 2 cents



MBA might not be the solution of your issues. Please consider these points before going back to school.

Education cost ~ 60k to 80k, sometimes 100k
2 years of wage loss - 150k to 200k depending upon your current salary
2 years of living expenses ~ 60k if you live like a student.
total cost ~ 250k - 300k...yes, Three Hundred Thousand Dollars.


My 2 cents.

[reddy_h]

with the VB for ROW EB-3 still not moving anywhere close to Nov 06 (my PD)...I am thinking about going back to school?

485 pending from July VB fiasco, like a lot of people, I am still using my H1B...
just got it renewed back in Oct 08'

but given the current economic situation, I am pondering about going back to school, getting myself more prepared for when the economy finally picks up again (wishful thinking, I know)
instead of wasting my H1 time and risk getting laid off while still on H1, having to scrambled to find a replacement job, etc and etc.

I know I can use my AP and EAD and just abandon the H1, but my AP and EAD was applied back in July 07', so they have both expired already. in this economy, I really don't feel like paying my lawyer some more money to file for them again.

I might as well spend the money on educating myself, no?

what do you guys think?

I lot of people in my industry (architecture) are going back to school...hiding out in academia to avoid the disastrous lay-offs.

and besides, when I get out, I will get a Master and be in EB-2!!! :)
which is current for ROW

got any recommendations for me? cheap school in good city to live?

let's hear everyone's thoughts?

Since F-1 is not dual intent status you will abandon your I-485 if you plan to go to school full time in F-1 status. And as a primary applicant you need to keep working as well. Your only option without abandoning your I-485 is to work full time and go to school part time either in H-1 status or EAD.

[needhelp!]

Since F-1 is not dual intent status you will abandon your I-485 if you plan to go to school full time in F-1 status. And as a primary applicant you need to keep working as well. Your only option without abandoning your I-485 is to work full time and go to school part time either in H-1 status or EAD.

Does 485 pending have restriction on studying?

[king37]

my 2 cents is this case:

1> I agree with above assessment doing an MBA even from top schools and spending so much money nearly 300K when wall street bankers have disappeared might not be the best investment strategy even having a very optimistic future outlook from 2-5 years from now. I myself an MBA.

2> You won't be able to convert h1b when you have filled a 485 which shows one's intention for immigrant status, where as F1 must show a non immigrant status intention. Even if you somehow manage to get change of status here in usa, visa stamp in home country for F1 will nearly be impossible because of immigrant status intent as shown by filling 485.

Alternative will be doing certifications on the side either in same filed or different field altogether (like health, education, or combination of business and technology) and update yourself so you can switch jobs. Just have patience in this troubled times when all of us are in similar boat.

[pointlesswait]

EAD does not qualify you for a fed student loan..or any student loan..Sallie mae, chase, BOA or Citi... hence you will have to go for a private student loan..and as far as i know.. there are no pvt. student loans..market is in a freeze.. i am midway in my PT program and had to take this sem off..as i could not get any student loans.

so ppl.. who are planning of doing MBA..
a.) unless and until u do full time and you have some kind of funding.. u wll be burning ur cash reserves ...an MBA is good.. but be careful before u quit H1...

b.) Also..if you are doing FT.. then u will have to change ur status..to F1? hai na??
and if you have applied for 140... u have shown the intent to immigrate..so switching to F1 (non-immigrant visa) can be iffy..

c.) what i dont know is..can you quit ur job and go back to school on EAD?



MBA might not be the solution of your issues. Please consider these points before going back to school.

Education cost ~ 60k to 80k, sometimes 100k
2 years of wage loss - 150k to 200k depending upon your current salary
2 years of living expenses ~ 60k if you live like a student.
total cost ~ 250k - 300k...yes, Three Hundred Thousand Dollars.

How many years would it take for you to earn it back? Also, after your degree you would realize that 90% of the tier one companies would filter you based on your "NON PERMANENT RESIDENT ALIEN" status. So you would end up with tier2/tier3 company.....might end up doing the same old Java/C++ under a different title making 5k/year more.

My 2 cents.

[gcisadawg]

did you guys consider Online MS/MBA? Lots of state universities are offering them now. Some of them are Univ. of Arizona ( WP Carey), PSU ( Smeal), UMUC, Thunderbird etc..

Does doing online remove some of the 'sheen' from your resume?

[reddy_h]

Does 485 pending have restriction on studying?

No restriction on studying but if you convert to F-1 status, it is considered that you have abandoned your I-485 application since F-1 is not dual intent status.

[pointlesswait]

YES..big time.. Online is a waste of time ,money and effort.
PT is still ok... FT is better..



did you guys consider Online MS/MBA? Lots of state universities are offering them now. Some of them are Univ. of Arizona ( WP Carey), PSU ( Smeal), UMUC, Thunderbird etc..

Does doing online remove some of the 'sheen' from your resume?

[praveenuppaluri]

hi King37, since you are a MBA, can you give this forum an insight on putting a $$ value (ROI calculation)

if you are continuing in your current job (H1, EAD whatever) and go to a B.school partime and finish in 2 years (or 3 if you want breaks) - what is a good $$ value that you can spend and come out victorious (ROI in 2 - 3 years)

ofcourse, this $ amount varies from person to person but I am using my case as an example. if I spend 30K over the next 2.5 yrs on my MBA by borrowing money (from personal loans, credit cards, friends etc) and get a degree from a decent state university, what is a good scenario with minumum risk ?? I should get a pay raise of atleast $15K after my MBA - how feasible is that for any engg in next 2 - 3 years ??

just food for thought....

my 2 cents is this case:
I myself an MBA.
Just have patience in this troubled times when all of us are in similar boat.

[a_yaja]

did you guys consider Online MS/MBA? Lots of state universities are offering them now. Some of them are Univ. of Arizona ( WP Carey), PSU ( Smeal), UMUC, Thunderbird etc..

Does doing online remove some of the 'sheen' from your resume?

My 2 cents:

Most of the online degree programs are not accredited at either the national or regional level. USCIS will not consider such degrees as valid degrees for EB2 purpose. It is better to do it at a proper school.

[crazyghoda]

If you are in mid career and want to do your MBA, you have to do from a top 10 university else its really no point. An MBA is more about the alumni network that it gives access to than what you are going to learn there. If you are already making 80-120K, doing an MBA from an average university is just a waste of time and money. The options come down to doing either a Part time or Exec MBA and those will cost you well over 100K.

My 2 paisas

[gcisadawg]

My 2 cents:

Most of the online degree programs are not accredited at either the national or regional level. USCIS will not consider such degrees as valid degrees for EB2 purpose. It is better to do it at a proper school.

That is not the case. Most of the universities that offer online are regionally accredited.
Regional accreditation is much better than national. I'm talking about schools like PSU, UofAZ, UMUC, Harvard Extension, Stanford PDC etc....I'm not talking about capella, rushmore and all those diploma mills.

For ex: check
http://www.worldcampus.psu.edu/MasterinSupplyChainManagement_FAQs.shtml

I agree it takes some of the sheen but what are the options for someone who can not do part-time? My family commitment means online is the only option.

At the same time, it makes someone scary as to the reputation of the course/school.
Cornell is a great school. But check this website http://www.ecornell.com/catalog/fm/
and see how you can add 'courses' to your shopping cart!
Ultimate commoditisation of education!

Thanks,
GCisaDawg

[gcisadawg]

One of my friend did PT MBA from Carnegie Mellon. Shelled out top dollars. Worked in Deloitte. And got laid off. He is on unemployment and trying to find a job when we last spoke. But he is glad that he got his MBA from CMU.

My another friend did FT MBA from Duke University. Worked in Rosetta Net in product marketing, resigned, went to Europe for back pack trip, got back and now working in a startup firm in social networking area in DC.

My third friend did PT MBA from Temple Univ in Philadelphia. He was a s/w engineer but switched to finance. Got his CFA also (all levels) and worked in Wall St for a year before he got laid off. Now on unemployment and is looking for a job as well as doing world tours.

All of them are GC holders.

[praveenuppaluri]

gcisadawg...
that post will be the final nail to the coffin if someone is "tinkering" with the idea of MBA at top univ ($100K)... :p

anyway, thanks for sharing...



PT MBA from Carnegie Mellon. - got laid off..

FT MBA from Duke University. now working in a startup firm in social networking area in DC.

PT MBA from Temple Univ in Philadelphia. he got laid off.

[gcisadawg]

Praveen,

Yes, it gets scary. When the economy was good, MBA's looked sophisticated and 'driven'.
In the bad economy the first thing to depend on is tried and tested hard-work and the last thing is 'business-speak'.

No one can take the education away from a person once acquired. If one gets the value for the buck and employer sponsorship, then I don't see any reasons that stop anyone from engaging in value addition during this 'downtime'. But spending top $$$ is an altogether different ball game.

[aachoo]

There are two outcomes of the biz school experience- in this order:

- The alumni network as pointed out by someone. Typically better for the higher ranked schools. But not bad for the lower ranked ones- but more local (e.g. Anyone outside the Bay Area heard of Santa Clara University? Intel and AMAT hire a lot there). Typically better for the full time programs compared to the part time programs

- Learning something: There is typically very little knowledge you gain in biz school that you could not gain by reading things yourself/community college classes etc. Some minor exceptions (Financial analysis, options theory etc.). What you primarily learn is how to approach a problem from a business standpoint (rather than an engineering standpoint in my case): Not a whole lot different from a higher ranked school versus a lower ranked school versus a part time program.

My recommendations. Go for:
- Well ranked school
- State school if possible
- Look for assistantship (very possible in State schools)

My learnings:
- Do not expect you will be a hotshot right after your MBA
- There is stigma associated with engineers who got an MBA. Unless you are looking to join a tech company in a biz role.
- I have seen people with IT background go right back into the same area. People without an IT background (other engineering) have fared better
- Even if you manage to change into finance/marketing etc., you will have to build your career in that area
- Take your internship very seriously- change the area you work in. Work for free if needed to work in the area you really want. Makes the full time job search much easier

-a

PS- I switched from H1 to F1 for my MBA. You need to have F1 stamped (not just status change) if you want to work on campus. At least that was what I was told 10 years back when I did this.

[desi3933]

No restriction on studying but if you convert to F-1 status, it is considered that you have abandoned your I-485 application since F-1 is not dual intent status.


Incorrect!

Once I-485 is filed, one can not change to F-1 Status. Even if you withdraw I-485 application.

Now coming back to studying on AOS status, it depends whether you are a primary or derivative of I-140 petition. For primary I-485 applicant, job offer and intent to join full-time must be maintained at all times while I-485 is pending. It is very difficult to prove intent when one is studying full time.

____________________
Not a legal advice.
US Citizen of Indian Origin

[rb_248]

No restriction on studying but if you convert to F-1 status, it is considered that you have abandoned your I-485 application since F-1 is not dual intent status.

Can you go back to non-immigrant visa (F1) after applying for immigrant visa (I-485) ? Is it not a conflict ? Can you get approved in the first place ?

[rockstart]

Question I have for guys planning to go to school. What if CIS issues you a RFE asking for Paystubs and W2 how will you explain that employer needs me for a certain labor case example DBA or programmer and now I am studying MBA and will join back later? CIS will interpret that the labor is no longer needed since employer can do without you. Or once you are finished with degree why will u work on something u did before schooling