Reform H1B and L1 Visa Program - Introduced on April 23rd 2009

[rajpatelemail]

Reform H1B and L1 Visa Program - Introduced on April 23rd 2009

Grassley Works to Eliminate Fraud and Abuse from H-1B Visa Program

http://grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=20327

Consulting comapnies will get the major hit due to the below clause:
* Prohibit the blatantly discriminatory practice of "H-1B only" ads and prohibit employers from hiring additional H-1B and L-1 guest-workers if more than 50 percent of their employees are H-1B and L-1 visa holders.

We should support, as it puts end to consulting companies abuse.

[ivjobs]

what's the update on this?

Did it pass?

[h1techSlave]

In Grassley's home page there is an article captioned "Grassley Works to Eliminate Fraud and Abuse from H-1B Visa Program". http://grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=20327

There is a very easy but effective method to stop H1B abuses. Just make EB based immigration an integral part of the H1B visa. Meaning, as soon as the employee starts to work on H1B for any employer the below two things should happen:

1. H1B should like an EAD. As soon as your H1B gets approved thru one employer, then the employee should be able to take that same H1B visa and work for another employee in a similar role.
2. The employee's GC clock should start as soon as the H1B starts. After 5 years into H1B with any employer, the GC should come in the mail, with out any additional processing or application required by anybody.

Implement these above things, then H1B abuse will be a thing of the past.

[gc_on_demand]

I see indian comnies will apply for more B1/ B2 visas overseas.

[go_guy123]

I see indian comnies will apply for more B1/ B2 visas overseas.

B1/B2 is always prone to reject by 221(b). Wont impact that much.

[senthil1]

This is a good bill. The 50% rule will impact Indian bodyshoppers and Top Indian outsourcing companies. But genuine companies like Microsoft,Google, Oracle and other US companies will not be impacted that much as they sincerely search whether US talent is available. But will it pass? In 2007 it did not move as they planned to consider for CIR. This time also same argument may come. But some genuine Indian consulting companies also will be impacted. But system will adjust quickly even if this bill passes.

B1/B2 is always prone to reject by 221(b). Wont impact that much.

[atul555]

The Durbin-Grassley bill would, among other things:
· Prohibit the blatantly discriminatory practice of "H-1B only" ads and prohibit employers from hiring additional H-1B and L-1 guest-workers if more than 50 percent of their employees are H-1B and L-1 visa holders.

I wonder how much research these two amigos did on Monster and dice. Here's the link if these two are reading
http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?op=300&N=0&Hf=0&NUM_PER_PAGE=30&Ntk=JobSearchRanking&Ntx=mode+matchall&AREA_CODES=&AC_COUNTRY=1525&QUICK=1&ZIPCODE=&RADIUS=64.37376&ZC_COUNTRY=0&COUNTRY=1525&STAT_PROV=0&METRO_AREA=33.78715899%2C-84.39164034&TRAVEL=0&TAXTERM=0&SORTSPEC=0&FRMT=0&DAYSBACK=30&LOCATION_OPTION=2&FREE_TEXT=h1b&WHERE=

Please click on the ads and see if the ads come up with H1B only or they say 'No H1Bs', which I guess is an acceptable form of discrimination for these two.
Last I checked I was hard pressed to find a single job which were open enough for H1B's, let alone exclusively for H1B's, but almost all of the openings explicitly barred H1B visa holders.

[coolpal]

I am in the US for 7 years now, and frankly, I am yet to see a H1B ONLY job posting...
Hmm... me thinks, I was hibernating in the h1b golden years :(

pal :)

[chanduv23]

They refer to ads on Sulekha and other similar portals

On another note - consulting companies will workaround by creating multiple companies and applying h1b through various companies

[gc_on_demand]

They refer to ads on Sulekha and other similar portals

On another note - consulting companies will workaround by creating multiple companies and applying h1b through various companies

But are n't they proposing 50 % rule.. how can a small desi company afford 50 % US citizen staff ? That is why may be people think consulting companies will not work.

but what I think is it will make them less profitable. Very small body shoppers will go out of business. Med to large indian owner based consulting companies will be less profitable.

Guys with stock investment in indian IT compnies Heads UP !

[senthil1]

Big companies like TCS cannot split or start another company as everything is associated with Brand name and other stock market regulations. They will be forced to hire citizens/GC holders with H1bs if this bill is passed in same form. USCIS will take care of small Indian bodyshoppers by RFE and asking client letters etc if they start multiple companies. Of course there will be loopholes our Indian companies will find in any law but still it will clean up H1b and L1 atleast for some extent.

They refer to ads on Sulekha and other similar portals

On another note - consulting companies will workaround by creating multiple companies and applying h1b through various companies

[senthil1]

I think if number of employees are less than 50 then 50% rule will not be applicable(according to 2007 proposed bill). It may be similar to that.

But are n't they proposing 50 % rule.. how can a small desi company afford 50 % US citizen staff ? That is why may be people think consulting companies will not work.

but what I think is it will make them less profitable. Very small body shoppers will go out of business. Med to large indian owner based consulting companies will be less profitable.

Guys with stock investment in indian IT compnies Heads UP !

[chanduv23]

Big companies like TCS cannot split or start another company as everything is associated with Brand name and other stock market regulations. They will be forced to hire citizens/GC holders with H1bs if this bill is passed in same form. USCIS will take care of small Indian bodyshoppers by RFE and asking client letters etc if they start multiple companies. Of course there will be loopholes our Indian companies will find in any law but still it will clean up H1b and L1 atleast for some extent.

I agree. Sometime back when I was actively looking for jobs, Infosys was hiring local candidates which means EAD, GC and Citizens trying to augment their workforce with local candidates. As I was on EAD they asked me to come for interview. The salary level they were willing to offier is so low that it will just never work out and I did not even go forward.

If these companies want to hire local candidates -they cannot treat them like they treat h1 or l1 holders - it is going to be interesting.

On one side they need to be in business and on other side they HAVE to hire locals which means lesser profits.

[krupa]

The new bill introduced makes tough for employers to file new H1B petitions and does not prohibit hiring of existing H1B or EAD candidates.
If greater than 50% of thier total strenghth of employess are H1B visa holders , then they can not file for any new/ fresh H1B petition.

[McLuvin]

So Guys...

This is something really cheap of you people to think.....

I read a lot of posts where they mentioned that chuck should proceed with the bill.... so that small desi companies dont perish and that will stop abusing the H1B program...

I really dont understand that no one condemed that remark.. Guys who work in big companies are safe by this rule... So what happens to the one sustaining the so called abuses and remaining intact to get their GC's

No wonder we are not able to make progress as much as those illegal immi's do...

Way to go guys... This kind of spirit will take us to great highs

BR,
Karthik

[gapala]

But are n't they proposing 50 % rule.. how can a small desi company afford 50 % US citizen staff ? That is why may be people think consulting companies will not work.

but what I think is it will make them less profitable. Very small body shoppers will go out of business. Med to large indian owner based consulting companies will be less profitable.

Guys with stock investment in indian IT compnies Heads UP !

50% rule - Does this cover only US Citizens or includes GC as well? not clear... may be senators didn;t think about GC folks in this bill... A lot of the companies, I believe will have 50% with GC holders/citizens/T1/OPT/Add any other visa category who can work.. Since the bill restricts only H1B/L1.

There are some assumptions, I guess on above post, that americans are paid more etc... which is totally wrong... A lot of the folks in this community, I believe, based on my own experience are paid more or at par with american counterparts. (I guess, about the profitability, if you mean it in terms of less productivity, I agree with that.)

I guess the genuine companies will move the H1/L1 staff abroad along with positions to meet this requirements if at all this becomes law. What that means is more job loss in US. (Whether US has 50% of total "high skilled" work force necessary to run the operations of all the companies is another important question... I do not think so, may be the senators are considering highschool dropouts to handle the "high skilled" jobs :), I read somewhere about a recent survey and only 27% of 25-45 age group of population has a college degree in all discipline. I will try to find the link)

Over all, I see this move by senators as short sited and will prove disastrus to America in long run given the fact that no other country in the world is as dependent on technology / research and development as US.

[Cheran]

This guy doesn't have a clue. He is deviating so much from the core US policy, I don't know where it might end. I wonder whether we are better off with the last one????

[longwait4gc]

* Prohibit the blatantly discriminatory practice of "H-1B only" ads and prohibit employers from hiring additional H-1B and L-1 guest-workers if more than 50 percent of their employees are H-1B and L-1 visa holders.

We should support, as it puts end to consulting companies abuse.

I dont beleive this people are supporting this idea. This will put an end to H1B hiring by small tech startups.

There are better ways to avoid fraud, eg. by depending on paystubs etc...

[mbawa2574]

B1/B2 is always prone to reject by 221(b). Wont impact that much.

More jobs will offshore. Indian companies will lower their billing rates drastically as they will move away from onshore/offshore model.



Go Wipro Go infosys Go TCS !!!! Do it the other way.

[mbawa2574]

This guy doesn't have a clue. He is deviating so much from the core US policy, I don't know where it might end. I wonder whether we are better off with the last one????

If Obama signs this bill into a law, this will be the end of Capitalism and some extent Indo-US relations. India may drag US at WTO followed by backlash here. so this will make things for immigrants really tough in this country. So go figure out....Obama & socialism loving maniacs. Durban & Grassley did not have permission to visit Bush's whitehouse. But ofcourse Obama loves these clowns.

[i-serf]

This site is actively monitoring such news. Looks like.

http://blog.aflcio.org/2009/04/24/bipartisan-bill-would-strengthen-guest-worker-rules/

[starscream]

I have not seen the language of the bill. Has anyone seen the exact language of the bill?

Should this bill become law (in its present form without any changes ) will the new provisions apply to ANY H1B application (i.e new applications, Transfer due to change of employer , H1B extension application with current employer) or just to NEW H1B applications and not to H1B extensions filed by the currentemployer.

There are hundreds of H1B applicants who do not have EAD but have approved PERM or approved PERM + approved I-140 and will be filing for extensions.

The H1B resttrictions in the TARP law only apply to new H1B filings.

[gc28262]

Many folks on this forum are so excited that consulting companies are going to be affected by this bill. Many FTEs think they are safe and consulting companies going out of business will help them get their GCs faster. Wait and watch, such bills typically affects direct hiring companies more than consulting companies in the end.

Remember who is proposing these bills. Durbin and gang. Do you think they are trying to liberate the employees from the clutches of "bad" employers. I don't think so.

Many IV members has started seeing this anti-H1B bill as CIR 2009.
We are such a pathetic community !

[Naveen]

I have not seen the language of the bill. Has anyone seen the exact language of the bill?

Should this bill become law (in its present form without any changes ) will the new provisions apply to ANY H1B application (i.e new applications, Transfer due to change of employer , H1B extension application with current employer) or just to NEW H1B applications and not to H1B extensions filed by the currentemployer.

There are hundreds of H1B applicants who do not have EAD but have approved PERM or approved PERM + approved I-140 and will be filing for extensions.

The H1B resttrictions in the TARP law only apply to new H1B filings.

Link (http://www.immigration-law.com/Temporary%20II.html) for full text of the bill.

[starscream]

Thanks.

But couldn't make out if it would apply to new H1B applications or new and H1B extensions.

If anyone can throw some light on this please do..


Link (http://www.immigration-law.com/Temporary%20II.html) for full text of the bill.

[Alabaman]

"Provide safeguards for visa holders so they know their rights under the law. This would include wage rates and access to benefits."

What benefits are they talking about here?? As far as I am concerned, H1B visa holders have to no benefits... we pay SS taxes, federal taxes, Medicaid, state etc. As soon as we loose our jobs we are told we have a couple of days to leave the country - even when we have been here for years. What an inhumane way to treat a tax payer.

[snathan]

This is a good bill. The 50% rule will impact Indian bodyshoppers and Top Indian outsourcing companies. But genuine companies like Microsoft,Google, Oracle and other US companies will not be impacted that much as they sincerely search whether US talent is available. But will it pass? In 2007 it did not move as they planned to consider for CIR. This time also same argument may come. But some genuine Indian consulting companies also will be impacted. But system will adjust quickly even if this bill passes.

May I ask your immigration status. I believe you already got your GC and roaming around here just beat shit out of others. Each and every of your post is convincing me in that direction only. You would be happy to see the H1 guys thrown out from here. So it will increase your demand and you can make more money. What kind of person you are. is there any difference between you and anti-immigrant. Or are you that coming with Indian name to make fool out of us.

If you dont believe me, you read all your posts again. You are always talking about banning desi consultant. You are more than welcome for that. But you did you even thought about a second for guys who are genuine and unfortunate to work for them.


People are already stressed out. If you got your GC please go-away and enjoy your freedom.

[snathan]

"Provide safeguards for visa holders so they know their rights under the law. This would include wage rates and access to benefits."

What benefits are they talking about here?? As far as I am concerned, H1B visa holders have to no benefits... we pay SS taxes, federal taxes, Medicaid, state etc. As soon as we loose our jobs we are told we have a couple of days to leave the country - even when we have been here for years. What an inhumane way to treat a tax payer.

he hee... you are dreaming too much. If you are not paid properly the DOL will help you get your wage. Nothing else.

[angelfire76]

Forget about it impacting desi companies, do you know how many companies will be impacted if the "no contracting" clause is retained in the H1B/L1 bill. It essentially means that no company can "purchase" the services of another company and use a H1B worker to work on the project at it's site. We are talking about biggies like IBM Consulting (where about 10% of it's workforce is on H1B) , Oracle consulting etc. who's clients depend on the expertise of the techies to help their teams by working with them onsite.
Oracle and IBM are rich by software support and consulting services, not just by their product lines.
Do business working on non-govt or non-defense apps care whether their contractor is on H1B or not? No they care about 2 things 1. Price 2. Can the contractor help get their system working?
It's pretty obvious that neither of these senators have any business experience.

[angelfire76]

May I ask your immigration status. I believe you already got your GC and roaming around here just beat shit out of others. Each and every of your post is convincing me in that direction only. You would be happy to see the H1 guys thrown out from here. So it will increase your demand and you can make more money. What kind of person you are. is there any difference between you and anti-immigrant. Or are you that coming with Indian name to make fool out of us.

If you dont believe me, you read all your posts again. You are always talking about banning desi consultant. You are more than welcome for that. But you did you even thought about a second for guys who are genuine and unfortunate to work for them.


People are already stressed out. If you got your GC please go-away and enjoy your freedom.

Probably a labor sub guy who got his GC by accident and now can't land a job due to a non-existent skillset. Now how do you market yourself when you are the crappiest product: get rid of the competition and be the only show in town. :rolleyes:

[pappu]

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/search.php?searchid=1611042

[chanduv23]

May I ask your immigration status. I believe you already got your GC and roaming around here just beat shit out of others. Each and every of your post is convincing me in that direction only. You would be happy to see the H1 guys thrown out from here. So it will increase your demand and you can make more money. What kind of person you are. is there any difference between you and anti-immigrant. Or are you that coming with Indian name to make fool out of us.

If you dont believe me, you read all your posts again. You are always talking about banning desi consultant. You are more than welcome for that. But you did you even thought about a second for guys who are genuine and unfortunate to work for them.


People are already stressed out. If you got your GC please go-away and enjoy your freedom.

senthil1 is one of those who is "shut the door behind you" kinds folks. He has been consistent on his stand and he wants to side anti immigrants. He is a disgrace and shame to your community. I had a feeling that sometime back he was 'reformed criminal" but does not seem so anymore.

[swamy]

Since no one is against eliminating fraud on H1/L1 - atleast on this forum - is there any chance we can request messrs Durbib/Grassley to tack on issues/amendments to prefile 485 or polish AC21 to its true intent of freeing up workers? maybe they wont accede but atleast it will end up calling them out ontheir bluff of supporting worker rights and expose their fierce hatred of immigrants..

[krupa]

50% rule applicable only to an organization which has more than 50 employees.

Since most of the consulting companies employees strength is less than 50 ( I believe) the rule of 50% rule will not be applicable and they can file application till they reach 50.

[cbadari99]

senthil1 is one of those who is "shut the door behind you" kinds folks. He has been consistent on his stand and he wants to side anti immigrants. He is a disgrace and shame to your community. I had a feeling that sometime back he was 'reformed criminal" but does not seem so anymore.

I have been watching his postings for sometime now and his messages closely matche with the antis. He may be working for the losers guild or a hira in the making. Unfortunate.

[sakthikams]

from http://www.dhs.gov/journal/leadership

below is the extract from above link...

Addressing Employment-Based Visa Wait Times

There have been a lot of comments and questions received from readers about employment-based petitions and related applications for adjustment to lawful permanent residence.

This is a complicated subject, so I want to provide a little background. Becoming a permanent resident based on employment can require a number of steps, including obtaining a labor certification from the Department of Labor, receiving approval on a petition for alien worker from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) (Form I-140) and obtaining an immigrant visa from the Department of State or being granted adjustment of status from USCIS. In addition, by law there are numerical limits on the number of people who can immigrate to the U.S. each year in most categories. You can see a more detailed explanation about the employment-based visa application process online.

Some readers have asked about the volume of employment applications and delays that have occurred in employment-based visa petition and adjustment application processing in late 2007 and early 2008. There were a number of factors that affected USCIS' handling of these cases during that time. Employers filed more than 234,000 petitions to sponsor foreign workers (Form I-140) as the Department of Labor cleared a large backlog of labor certification applications and implemented new regulations. Adjustment-of-status application filings also soared to nearly 300,000. We attribute the increase in adjustment application filings to a couple things. First, customers' anticipation of USCIS' filing fee increase in July 2007. Second, a unique opportunity for workers and their families to file adjustment applications based on the visa availability date announced in the July 2007 Immigrant Visa Bulletin. Many of these availability dates have since reverted, creating a backlog of adjustment applications that cannot be adjudicated until a visa becomes available.

A few months ago, a customer indicated his frustration that while he can monitor the Visa Bulletin to see how it moves month to month, he still has no idea how many people are waiting in line with pending adjustment applications or how long it may be before USCIS can process and approve his application. We know this customer is not alone! In response to that customer's request, we are working to make this information available on our Web site.

I understand the importance of becoming a permanent resident. I also recognize workers may rightly want to take advantage of the limited provisions in current law that allow certain applicants to change employers without affecting their ability to adjust status. As a result, USCIS has taken the following steps:
USCIS has increased the emphasis on processing employment-based petitions. Our goal is to complete adjudication on the older I-140 petitions and to process newer petitions within our targeted processing time of four months. We are making progress toward this goal and anticipate reaching this goal by the end of September 2009.
USCIS is issuing employment authorization documents valid for two years, as needed.
USCIS is working with the State Department to make sure we use every available visa number. In 2007, we had more visas available in the family-based categories than were needed, so as permitted by law, we transferred those available family-based visas for use in the employment-based application process.
I recognize that this is a difficult and complex situation and USCIS is working hard to make improvements and to increase transparency in our processes.


Mike Aytes
Acting Deputy Director, USCIS

below is the extract from immigration-law.com

04/25/2009: On-Going USCIS Efforts to Reduce Backlog in Employment-Based Immigration Applications

Lately, I-140 and EB-485 applicants have been receiving envelopes from the Service Centers with their long-awaited approval notices, particularly those cases which were filed during and after the FY 2007 July Visa Bulletin fiasco period. Along with the development, information has been released by the stake-holder agencies of the Department of State and the USCIS indicating that there has been efforts on the part of the USCIS to eliminate employment-based immigation backlogs. In releasing the May 2009 Visa Bulletin, the State Department confirmed that the USCIS had been taking out EB visa numbers en masse exhausting all the EB-3 visa numbers available for the rest of FY 2009.

This report is consistent with the information released by the USCIS on its projected processing time to four months for the employment-based I-140 petitions and EB-485 applications by the end of FY 2009, which is September 30, 2009. The goal appears to have contributed to the exhaustion of annually allocated employment-based visa numbers so that no EB visa numbers be unused or wasted by the end of FY 2009. The commitment to this goal of the USCIS is reaffirmed by yesterday's release of Mr. Michael Ayte's report on the employment-based visa processing times in the Leadership Journal of the DHS. Considering a huge backlog and processing delays in the employment-based immigration petitions and 485 applications for almost two years as affected primarily by the FY 2007 July Visa Bulletin fiasco, the recent event that evolved in the USCIS processing time change is certainly a welcome news for waiters who have suffered from the past backlogs.

What have tirbuted to this change? The long-term strategy for reduction of processing times for immigration benefits applications appears to be launch of "Transformation Program" that intended to achieve reduction of processing times by turning current paper-based application and processing system into complete electronization system and process focusing on the concept of digital "account" databases within approximately a period of five years. However, this program has experienced a snag. However, lately the DHS disclosed its multi-billion dollar contract with the IBM for two programs. One is to convert all the existing files and date into digitazition and the other is to develop and implement electronic application and processing system. Reportedly, for this purpose, the IBM reenforced its operation in India and the work is underway. However, report indicates that the first phase appears to focus on the digitazation of existing database rather than implementation of electronic application and processing system. Overall, the goal of the contract appears to be completed in the next five years. It thus appears that the current efforts of elimination of backlogs within this fiscal year do not rely on the progress of this program. The big momentum was created by the Congress appropriating fund for USCIS human resources.

gtThanks to the Congress action to give fund for hiring additional 2,000 resources, the USCIS recxruited and trained new hires who joined the USCIS field offices including Service Centers and local district and field offices, initially focusing on the job of elimination of huge naturalization applications. USCIS had been reporting that the hurdle for reduction of employment-based immigration cases was the mountain of naturalization applications that poured in around the time of FY 2007 July Visa Bulletin fiasco. Now, the naturalization application backlog is under control, inreased resources are becoming available for the employment-based immigration files. Another important factor that has contributed to the agency's recent move was the implementation name-check reduction agreement between the FBI and the DHS and the USCIS policy to complete adjudicaion of EB-485 applications when the FBI name check failed to complete within 180 days. The third factor that cannot be discounted nor minimized is the new DHS leadership's move and commitment for the elimination of the employment-based immigration case backlogs. As people may recall, the Secretary Napolitano of the DHS issued a directive to report the state of backlogs in the immigration benefit applications and the USCIS leaders plan for reduction or elimination of such backlogs. With all of the above developments combined, the employment-based immgrant community is continuously expected to witness the reduction of processing times, at least for a short term. However, long-term reduction or elimination of EB case processing backlog is likely to depend on success of the IBM contract digitization program of the USCIS. This needs continuing internal and external political support, and we hope that the Congress extends its strong support, particularly considering importance of the successful reengineering program to accomodate the potentially forthcoming avalanche and flood gate opening for case loads for the USCIS when the country passes the Comprehensive Immigration Reform legi

extract from http://www.dhs.gov/journal/leadership

Addressing Employment-Based Visa Wait Times

There have been a lot of comments and questions received from readers about employment-based petitions and related applications for adjustment to lawful permanent residence.

This is a complicated subject, so I want to provide a little background. Becoming a permanent resident based on employment can require a number of steps, including




Mike Aytes
Acting Deputy Director, USCIS

[ganguteli]

Atleast desi body shoppers does our green cards and also pays unlike TCS, Satyam, infy crap.They bring people on L1 visa and they pay so less and these people on L1 killing oppurtunities for US based people and they take the job to India. H1s are not the problem. L1 are.

For H1s, we need reform and regulation of law
For L1s, stop giving them or enforce the law very strictly. Or else everybody will be jobless

I have seen this in my company, a wireless provider in east coast.They have been eliminating silently all US based resources for the past 1 year and replacing with L1s

Why do I get this feeling that you are an anti-immigrant on this website?

Come clean please.

[Roger Binny]

Why do I get this feeling that you are an anti-immigrant on this website?

Come clean please.

I agree, hey TNMan, come clean.

Where all these guys gone when Tech sector is doing real big and this side of the planet is reaping billions of dollars in profit.

Gotcha...ok guys good job we don't care your lives go away huh ?

Clinton is smart he brought people over here and let them pay taxes and boost atleast local economies, corporates are much smarter than these schemes they will boost or find another way to outsource.

[senthil1]

We heard so many stories about violation many Indian bodyshoppers like bench without pay,Low pay ,fake resumes and many more. But when any bill comes to control them we are opposing. Because we fear that we may be one of the persons working in those companies and may be impacted by that.

Certainly the bill is not a pro immigrant and anti immigrant bill. But some kind of restriction is needed to clean out H1b. I accept as a pro immigrant we have to oppose any anti immigrant bill. So I am sure IV will try to block the bill as they did the restriction in TARP.

I am not going to get any benefit if they shut the door behind me. I need just one job that I can get any time and whatever compettion and there is no need to shut thousands of people. So my views are not based on any personal ambition.

I am seeing some positives in the bill. Wages will increase for the H1bs also. Only genuine companies can do the business. Best and bright people will not be impacted by this. Also it can open opportunity to increase H1b Cap and Green card Cap. So there is a good possiblity to reduce or eliminate retrogession.

Basically there are two options for IV and other pro immigrants if the bill is considered serously. One is just oppose the bill and try to block completely. Or other option is to negotiate to include our agenda to recapture/increase GC and also to modify the portions of bill. Instead of failing with option 1 getting success in option 2 is better.

I think this bill will not be passed if it is against WTO trade regulations.


senthil1 is one of those who is "shut the door behind you" kinds folks. He has been consistent on his stand and he wants to side anti immigrants. He is a disgrace and shame to your community. I had a feeling that sometime back he was 'reformed criminal" but does not seem so anymore.

[weasley]

Restrictions on H1B is definitely not going to help retain jobs in America. More technnical jobs will be outsourced. My friend work for a TARP company and they are directed to move more technical jobs to offshore. The raid and other things what they are doing now will certainly prevent fraud.

[polapragada]

Well One thing is for sure ...

Every time When US Senator Chuck Grassley introduces a bill ... He and His Anti-I
Are getting succeded in two ways
1. Bill is getting passed
2. Dividing the immigrent family into narrow tiny pieces...

If you wants to protest against L1 they will do the same with US...

Guess what they can lobby more than us.. they invest more than us... you are talking about the gaints companies.

Stop fussing about L1 and start disscussing about the billl


This is what I did I sent the bill text to my friends (L1 and H1) and explaning them that this Bill is equally bad for us both and let their employer knows and act against to it...

I sent E-mail to my sanator to vote against to the bill

[seahawks]

I agree totally, this is a catch 22 situation for employment based immigration and agree that this will only divide more of us who are in different situations and are all waiting in line. I am not on L1 but to have introduce a bill that is protective in nature will only hurt immigration even more in the long run. Some of us may think this will eliminate lot more people from the line so that we who are working as permanent employees can get our green cards faster. Consulting companies are not just small companies, KPMG, Microsoft, Delliote, Oracle all of they offer some form of consulting to their clients. How will this law be implemented, what will happen to us who plan to change jobs after getting green cards and plan to consult if these companies don't exist. Every time a bill gets introduced, there is an intent but there is also the question of how it gets applied.

I think this will only hurt us as written from reading everything, this has all the language on discrimination against otherwise eligible workers, remember someday all of us who are permanent employees may be working as consultants, if you think today this is applied only to H1/L1, what will stop them from applying against EAD holders too? After all how many of us are on EAD, 300K? do you think that is a big enough group.

Stay together, stand together and read between the lines. Always fight for open legal immigration for employment, if you feel somebody is not qualified, so be it, its for the employer to make that call if he or she is qualified or not. If the client or the employer does not feel they are getting their money;s worth, that is a business decision for them to make, how do we who are standing in line for our green cards make a call on who is or not qualified?

[snathan]

We heard so many stories about violation many Indian bodyshoppers like bench without pay,Low pay ,fake resumes and many more. But when any bill comes to control them we are opposing. Because we fear that we may be one of the persons working in those companies and may be impacted by that.

Certainly the bill is not a pro immigrant and anti immigrant bill. But some kind of restriction is needed to clean out H1b. I accept as a pro immigrant we have to oppose any anti immigrant bill. So I am sure IV will try to block the bill as they did the restriction in TARP.

I am not going to get any benefit if they shut the door behind me. I need just one job that I can get any time and whatever compettion and there is no need to shut thousands of people. So my views are not based on any personal ambition.

I am seeing some positives in the bill. Wages will increase for the H1bs also. Only genuine companies can do the business. Best and bright people will not be impacted by this. Also it can open opportunity to increase H1b Cap and Green card Cap. So there is a good possiblity to reduce or eliminate retrogession.

Basically there are two options for IV and other pro immigrants if the bill is considered serously. One is just oppose the bill and try to block completely. Or other option is to negotiate to include our agenda to recapture/increase GC and also to modify the portions of bill. Instead of failing with option 1 getting success in option 2 is better.

I think this bill will not be passed if it is against WTO trade regulations.

So you never know all these violation when you were in H1. What were you doing then. Why didnt you oppose then. If you know the violation did you call the USCIS and DOL and complain...No. Because you would end up in trouble. Now you got your GC and no matter if other guys are end up in trouble, in fact it would be helpful for you... Are you ready to review your status thorught all your H1, all your PREM processing to prove there is no violation...? Eveyone know how things are working. So if you got your GC just keep quite and move on. When you can not be helpful to others...why you are just creating pain.

If you are worrying about the wages..let them free the employees from employer. Thats the best way to clean up the system. If you are really pro-immigrant your thoughts should align in that direction. But most of us see you as Ron Diamond in the making. Its very unfortunate. One study shows that only immigrants opposing immigration more than natvie people.

[kcforgc]

We heard so many stories about violation many Indian bodyshoppers like bench without pay,Low pay ,fake resumes and many more. But when any bill comes to control them we are opposing. Because we fear that we may be one of the persons working in those companies and may be impacted by that.

Certainly the bill is not a pro immigrant and anti immigrant bill. But some kind of restriction is needed to clean out H1b. I accept as a pro immigrant we have to oppose any anti immigrant bill. So I am sure IV will try to block the bill as they did the restriction in TARP.

I am not going to get any benefit if they shut the door behind me. I need just one job that I can get any time and whatever compettion and there is no need to shut thousands of people. So my views are not based on any personal ambition.

I am seeing some positives in the bill. Wages will increase for the H1bs also. Only genuine companies can do the business. Best and bright people will not be impacted by this. Also it can open opportunity to increase H1b Cap and Green card Cap. So there is a good possiblity to reduce or eliminate retrogession.

Basically there are two options for IV and other pro immigrants if the bill is considered serously. One is just oppose the bill and try to block completely. Or other option is to negotiate to include our agenda to recapture/increase GC and also to modify the portions of bill. Instead of failing with option 1 getting success in option 2 is better.

I think this bill will not be passed if it is against WTO trade regulations.


I totally agree with you. H1b and employment based GC's are so intertwined that they are almost inseparable. For example, you can get H1b extension based on your pending/approved PERM labor or your approved I-140 application. So, any change to H1b will in some way impact the GC process. I'm all for closing the loop holes in H1b provided certain reforms are also made in the EB green card process- like removing per country quotas and may be give EAD upon I-140 approval.

[snathan]

I totally agree with you. H1b and employment based GC's are so intertwined that they are almost inseparable. For example, you can get H1b extension based on your pending/approved PERM labor or your approved I-140 application. So, any change to H1b will in some way impact the GC process. I'm all for closing the loop holes in H1b provided certain reforms are also made in the EB green card process- like removing per country quotas and may be give EAD upon I-140 approval.

But do you believe they will do any good for us or they are really interest to protect us. Their aim is to divide and rule.

[rockstart]

I agree I too have never seen H1B only ad's anywhere even body shoppers never post this kind of ad which is blatant discrimination. I guess the best way to say H1B only is to post ultra low wages (something close to state minimum's) that way only H1B show interest. SO the best way to tackle it is by either raising state minimum wages to make it fair playing field for all or auditing present companies to check for misuse of H1B with folks on bench, non pay, false documentation etc.

I am in the US for 7 years now, and frankly, I am yet to see a H1B ONLY job posting...
Hmm... me thinks, I was hibernating in the h1b golden years :(

pal :)

[kcforgc]

But do you believe they will do any good for us or they are really interest to protect us. Their aim is to divide and rule.

Right, it will not be good for anyone- nonimmigrants, employers or american economy. They are trying to take advantage of the current state of the economy to promote their anti-immigrant protectionist agenda. This is going to make anti-immigrant groups happy. Btw, I think these anti immigrant groups are a very small minority compared to people who support legal immigration but these are the most noisey ones.

so, yes -it is not going to be helpful for anybody. Only results in large scale outsourcing and/or companies would not be able to place right candidates in the right roles which is going to hurt America in the long run.

[immigrationmatters30]

We should form a union and flout our numbers to lobby aganist any bill. Unless we show our numbers nobody is going give flying f*** about us.

[mbawa2574]

This would be a good move on part of BJP.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/BJP-to-link-N-deal-execution-to-US-outsourcing-move/articleshow/4492192.cms

Let Obama feel the heat. US has to understand that they have no native skills and they are in deep debt. Let more jobs go away in this country if Mr. Obama does not stop his actions.

In nutshell- Election of Obama is bad for Indians / Skilled workers.
Yankee ( Moderate)Republicans are any day better then hard liberals & right-wing conservatives. Now we are seeing that Obama & Tancredo have the same agenda to scr*w us.

[old_hat]

I also saw a quote from one of the Indian offshoring company CEOs that only 25% of Indian engineers are employable. "

The percentage of people here are a very small percentage of that 25%.


If H1/L1 visa is restricted, that will give an incentive for americans to acquire a degree in science/engineering, just like the indian students taking courses in india offering a better ROI, as they get the feeling that they won't be discriminated in a job and investing $$$ in education is not going to be wasted.
H1/L1 restrictions are not going to encourage american kids. It does not impact their thinking. Maths, science are tougher subjects for kids. Kids in India were pushed by their parents to study science in search for a good career. Kids here have a lot other avenues which are more attractive to a kid. Kids do not understand L1/H1. 90% of adult population here does not understand H1/L1. REstricting H1/L1 will not influence a kid to take up science and engineering.

[WeldonSprings]

Maybe we can use the H-1 B reform bill, to recapture unused visas during the last many years. Make H-1 B tough but at the same time, release those green card numbers. Carrot and Stick approach.

The percentage of people here are a very small percentage of that 25%.


H1/L1 restrictions are not going to encourage american kids. It does not impact their thinking. Maths, science are tougher subjects for kids. Kids in India were pushed by their parents to study science in search for a good career. Kids here have a lot other avenues which are more attractive to a kid. Kids do not understand L1/H1. 90% of adult population here does not understand H1/L1. REstricting H1/L1 will not influence a kid to take up science and engineering.

[sganny]

Maybe we can use the H-1 B reform bill, to recapture unused visas during the last many years. Make H-1 B tough but at the same time, release those green card numbers. Carrot and Stick approach.


Guys,
This is one of the key reasons why we are not successful in our mission. All we can do is "lets kill H1/L1 so I can get GC", "lets not worry about EB3 as long as my EB2 is fine!". The only way we can make any progress is to stay united. Lets not try to find carrots that would really be sticks on people who are also part of this cause.

[jthomas]

Guys,
This is one of the key reasons why we are not successful in our mission. All we can do is "lets kill H1/L1 so I can get GC", "lets not worry about EB3 as long as my EB2 is fine!". The only way we can make any progress is to stay united. Lets not try to find carrots that would really be sticks on people who are also part of this cause.

EB3-I and EB2-I are both the same. EB3-I can port to EB2-I when the PD comes near. This is a normal human tendency and anybody would like to do it. The present EB3 guys are just waiting for the EB2 PD's to progress and they would move to EB2. I don't see anything wrong in that.
Lets come up with some action plan. Maybe we can draw the media's attention or send letters to our lawmakers and white house.

[ganguteli]

I have news for you (and the certitude with which you make your claims here are laughable). Computer science graduation rates in US went up this year by 6-8%, because the visa caps since 2003 remained at 65000 instead of 195000 creating some demand here. I personally know kids who wanted to go to Computer science, but went for other areas like health care because of the lack of offshoring/H1 etc. If the crooked Indian offshorers and fly-by-night operators are not driving down the wages, more americans will go to computer science, as they would go for a career as MD or Pharmacist or lawyer (almost all those careers need at least 6-8 years of college). They also know that professional associations like AMA or APhA wouldn't allow importing foreign workers by corporations/hospitals on a scale that H1-bs are imported in IT area

Based on my experience, I wouldn't say that Indian kids have any special skills in maths or science compared to americans. Contrary to what you claim, people are aware of H1s and offshoring(may be so much on the exploitation of L1) as they talk to friends and family and guidance counselors at school. Most of the IT jobs were Indian H1-bs are employed doesn't even need computer science or engineering degree. Some of the best architects I have seen in IT didn't have a computer science major. A green-horn from TCS/INFY with a computer science degree and pretending to be an architect doesn't mean he is the best IT professional available in the market.

American college kids spend most of their time partying and sex. They do not study. Only a very very few really study. Others just get by because professors are under pressure to pass them. If professors fail them, then no student will take their course or give bad rating that will affect their Tenure track. The education system is just pathetic and thus kids prefer to study arts and commerce. It is because they cannot fathom tough calculus or trigonometry. The pre-college years are spent in Prom nights and losing virginity. Thus these people fail to compete at global level. Only very few are good and they go to good universities. On the other hand international students come after lot of hard work and tough competitive education system. They are well trained to learn even in meagre resources and compete with others. This is the reason international students and immigrants do well in this country and innovate.

So stop calling your American people as best and brightest. Most of you who come here on this site and live on anti-immigrant sites are middle aged people who cannot get a job anywhere. You guys are just too lazy to study new technologies that is ever changing. You are more interested in having beers and watching football. Go and study and upgrade yourself rather than whining. You will not be able to convince us however much you try here.

[ganguteli]

As usual typical stereotyping devoid of any reality and isn't even worth a reply. It is clear that knowledge of the above poster about ameriacn teenager comes from watching MTV.

No wonder otherwise tolerant americans are saying "F*** You" to fraudulent indian companies trying to commit fraud under the guise of globalization.

Usual Xenophobic rant.

Which site have you come from? Who do you represent? Tell your masters to open some education classes and help you learn new technologies so that you can find a job. That is better use of your time and money.

They say, idle mind is devils workshop.
It is because of people like you USA is losing is competitive edge.

[ganguteli]

Let us talk about the "skills" introduced by H1/L1/offshore companies

a) One guy takes the phone interview for 15 other guys with "skills" they preted to have
b) Lying on the resume with "skills" that you don't have, so that you can learn the "skill" at the expense of the client
c) "Skill" in Violating B1 visa laws and sending people on B1 to do actual work to client
d) "Skill" in violating L1 law which is used to drive down the wages by 20-30%
e) "Skill" demonstrated by indian offshorers to enter into a contract with a large corporation where they will provide warm bodies in exchange for a very low billing rate. Client wouldn't have any ability to interview the incoming cosultant, which means the offshorer employee is learning at the expense of the foolish client. Then that will be touted as "savings".
f) "Skill" of fly-by-night operators to shave off 70% of the billing rate through a 6-level pyramid of contracting companies

Should I add to this list of "skills" further?
You want to talk about skills .. Huh?
Lets start with Madoff ...... :D:D:D:D

[perm2gc]

When where you laid off Hunter ?

[ganguteli]

You can take him and keep him in a cell with Satyam Raju. I don't care.

How pathetic, you don't even have a response for the "skills" practiced by H1/L1/Indian offshroe companies/fly-by-night operators!!

More than one of every 100 adults is in jail or prison in USA.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/record-number-of-americans-in-prison/20080228163909990001

Record Number of Americans in Prison
By DAVID CRARY, AP

NEW YORK - For the first time in U.S. history, more than one of every 100 adults is in jail or prison, according to a new report documenting America's rank as the world's No. 1 incarcerator. It urges states to curtail corrections spending by placing fewer low-risk offenders behind bars.
The report said the United States incarcerates more people than any other nation, far ahead of more populous China with 1.5 million people behind bars. It said the U.S. also is the leader in inmates per capita (750 per 100,000 people), ahead of Russia (628 per 100,000) and other former Soviet bloc nations which round out the Top 10.

The U.S. also is among the world leaders in capital punishment. According to Amnesty International, its 53 executions in 2006 were exceeded only by China, Iran, Pakistan, Iraq and Sudan.

[ganguteli]

Hunter,
why don't you go back to the country where your immigrant great grandfather came illegally to this country.
And BTW do not forget to say sorry to the Native Indians whom your great grand fathers killed before you leave.

[SanjayP]

you are both quite the racists. :eek: i question the wisdom of such attacks as it makes both sides look desperate. it is best if one side looks content. Let it roll off of the back like water on a duck.

[vbkris77]

When confronted with facts, like a typical "skilled" indian, our man ganguteli resorts to the following

a) Stereotyping
b) Evading the questions, starts dragging in the irrelevant stuff, be it madoff or american prison system

Hey ganguteli, if you are so concerned with the law and order system in US, why don't you go back to your "arsha-bharata"? I am sure that in India incarceration is very low because lot of criminals don't go to prison, instead they rise in politics like your leaders Advani, Modi , Laloo etc. (who would have languished in a prison in any other civilized country) and become prime-minister material. :D :D

Or are you planning to pratice some white-collar crime/fraud here after getting the coveted GC - like starting a "consulting company" to import indentured servants at dirt cheap prices? :D :D


Ganguteli, I must say you have proven that in this thread itself, with irrelevant, off-topic responses. :p

Hey mind your business. You don't know a thing about India and I am sure you wouldn't have even visited once in your lifetime. If you have problem with individuals, companies, sue them find legal ways to stop their wrong doing. It is good for everyone. Dishonesty is not a patent of any country. You show me 10 corrupt people from India, I will show you 100 from UK, 100 from USA and 100 from Japan.. Don't blabber about things you don't know in a public forum. I am taking offense of what you wrote.. You owe an apology to India and people from that country in this forum..

[SanjayP]

Now that is interesting. I have never met any dishonest Japanese. It is like it is not in their culture to be dishonest but that is my experience. The most dishonest thing i have seen Japanese do is that they have hard time saying the word No. That can leave one with the impression of that they still are interested. Su you think they are leading on you and think it is dishonest.

[shouldIwait]

Most of what Hunter has said is not wrong. Exploitation and malpractices by small/big consulting companies is a reality. All of the Indian immigrants know it. Indian workers submit to it because it still is a very good bargain.
But then there are other things that he is simply stereotyping because of personal impact and resulting hatred. Generally implying that foreign workers are crap and cause wage depression isn't true. Wages in IT industry are destined to go down with time because of demand/supply equation. It's nobody's fault that India/China are on the supply side (be it here or there respective countries). Moreover an individual with the will to uproot himself from the other side of the world and come here generally has much stronger zest to make it big than live an average life.
With regard to quality of professionals overall I don't see a marked difference between American and non-American workers. Moreover, I don't think that employers will employ substandard labor just because they are marginally cheap, because it turns out to be more expensive. In all the cases that H1-B and L1 pocket less money than their counterparts the booty goes to middlemen(both Indian and American bodyshps) and not the companies that ultimately use their skills.
What we all need here is a common-sense and honest approach to immigratiion. Also, we must understand that much is driven by forces of capitalism and they are strong enough to find a way, protectionism or no protectionism.

[waitforevergc]

Hunter:

This is not an India bashing site.

Please do everyone here a favor and post your rants in some lunatic site mainly for India bashers. You will find many. Just google.

[jthomas]

If you are offended, I don't give a DAMN!! I know about India very well and has been to India many a times. I know very well about the indian corruption which has no comparison with any country in the developed world. All you have to look at is the suveys from various NGOs that track corruptiy on at various countries in the world and you can see where India ranks relative to US or UK

Hunter, Mind your own business. What is your point.
1. We all agree there are loopholes in each and every system. Are you trying to fill 1% by punishing 99% of the people. If you want to fix loopholes this is not the right place to be. Go to the court and fight with the adminstration. Why the hell you are wasting your time.
2. Considering you are a anti-immigrant, and you want to fix the system. Are you targeting Employment based immigrants or family based immigrants. Employement based immigrants are just 17% of the total immigrants whereas family based immigrants are more than 50+ %. better target them. Don't waste your time since you won't get anything as everybody over here are working and US employers want them.
3. If you are unemployed, please spend your time in findiing a job. The minimum salary in US is around 8 dollars a hour so you have wasted your entire day. close to 100 dollars. You have not earned a thing by writing your thoughts in this forum.
4. Senator Grassley and Durbin are working on your side and they also like you don't want a google, yahoo, ebay and other firms to suceed iin US. Be prepare to immigrate to some other country in future.

I hope you get back to your work and THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS. ENOUGH.

J Thomas

[go_guy123]

Let us talk about the "skills" introduced by H1/L1/offshore companies

a) One guy takes the phone interview for 15 other guys with "skills" they preted to have
b) Lying on the resume with "skills" that you don't have, so that you can learn the "skill" at the expense of the client
c) "Skill" in Violating B1 visa laws and sending people on B1 to do actual work to client
d) "Skill" in violating L1 law which is used to drive down the wages by 20-30%
e) "Skill" demonstrated by indian offshorers to enter into a contract with a large corporation where they will provide warm bodies in exchange for a very low billing rate. Client wouldn't have any ability to interview the incoming cosultant, which means the offshorer employee is learning at the expense of the foolish client. Then that will be touted as "savings".
f) "Skill" of fly-by-night operators to shave off 70% of the billing rate through a 6-level pyramid of contracting companies

Should I add to this list of "skills" further?

Yes they are very true. Except in f) Generally 6 level pyramid of contracting is financially unviable. Max I have seen is around 4. Beyond that there is nothing left.


Regarding a) , b) and e) from the client standpoint say a financial company all that they care for is the job being done at lower cost. IT departments are cost centers and management dont care much about cost centers.

To some extent Obama administration is cracking down on H1B employers abuse.
Well thats natural when democratic party has control over whitehouse.

[waitforevergc]

Thomas:

There is no point preaching things to lunatics like Hunter. Let us just ignore him.
There are a lot of people like him on internet. We cant educate everyone.

Moderators, please block such people in their initial comments in the future.

[Dice]

Then why do you bother to desparately stay in US? Vote with your feet.

Hey Hunter you loon , you and your ilk got kicked out of Dice because of your racist BS ;), was'nt that enough? now you come crying here, nobody gives damn about you, we kicked you racists out of Dice and cleaned it up and we'll do it wherever required, now STFU and leave you unemployed fool, you'll get IP banned anyways as soon as the MODs come in here.

[shouldIwait]

Calling IV admins to please block Mr. Hunter because he's trying to pick a fight which defeats the purpose of this forum. Moreover this forum isn't for anti-immigrants in any case.

To set the record straight.....Mr. Hunter should first learn English Grammar. It's "I have been" not "I has been". And yeah, don't get lost in statistics, just because laws in US are designed to encourage corporate fraud in variety of forms doesn't mean corruption is any less. The only difference is low grass-roots level corruption which is direct result of differences in population density.

[old_hat]

I have news for you (and the certitude with which you make your claims here are laughable). Computer science graduation rates in US went up this year by 6-8%, because the visa caps since 2003 remained at 65000 instead of 195000 creating some demand here. I personally know kids who wanted to go to Computer science, but went for other areas like health care because of the lack of offshoring/H1 etc. If the crooked Indian offshorers and fly-by-night operators are not driving down the wages, more americans will go to computer science, as they would go for a career as MD or Pharmacist or lawyer (almost all those careers need at least 6-8 years of college). They also know that professional associations like AMA or APhA wouldn't allow importing foreign workers by corporations/hospitals on a scale that H1-bs are imported in IT area

Very sorry to disagree with you. Kids here have a lot more well paying choices for career and computer science is not really the glamour area for them. Where do you get 6-8% number from? is it Bachelors, Masters or PHD graduates? What percentage of this number is foreign students? in my experience there was a surge of foreign applicants even at Bachelors level during the same period.

Kids choices here are guided by their interest and career opportunities. And interest is the foremost criteria. Your thoughts about physicians or pharmacists are not apple to apple comparison. People have been sick through out the history of mankind and there has been increase in physicians and care providers propotional to population growth rate. There has been no explosive growth in those areas. IT/semiconductors/computers have gone through a period of explosive growth. That growth rate slowed with the burst of 2000-2001 and the H1 numbers reflect that. Why are H1 numbers not taken this year? It is simply because the market has slowed down.

Based on my experience, I wouldn't say that Indian kids have any special skills in maths or science compared to americans. Contrary to what you claim, people are aware of H1s and offshoring(may be so much on the exploitation of L1) as they talk to friends and family and guidance counselors at school. Most of the IT jobs were Indian H1-bs are employed doesn't even need computer science or engineering degree. Some of the best architects I have seen in IT didn't have a computer science major. A green-horn from TCS/INFY with a computer science degree and pretending to be an architect doesn't mean he is the best IT professional available in the market.
A computer science degree is not a mujst but it should be in related fields of science, math or engineering. can you show me a pharmacist or physician who is an architect ? The guy who is hiring a professional will determine who is the best suited for his needs? If the guy from TCS/Infy does not suit his needs he can find the best guy available to him. You can not judge who is best suited for all jobs available. And in this economy if a person's skill does not suit the job he is out of the door pretty quickly.

[waitforevergc]

Guys..cool down..

Let us not give people like 'Hunter' too much weightage.
Ignore trolls.

Posters like Hunter get some sort of sadistic pleasure bashing India and Indians.
Let us ignore them.


And mods, please block such posters like Hunter in future. Such a waste of space.

[old_hat]

Let us talk about the "skills" introduced by H1/L1/offshore companies

a) One guy takes the phone interview for 15 other guys with "skills" they preted to have
b) Lying on the resume with "skills" that you don't have, so that you can learn the "skill" at the expense of the client
c) "Skill" in Violating B1 visa laws and sending people on B1 to do actual work to client
d) "Skill" in violating L1 law which is used to drive down the wages by 20-30%
e) "Skill" demonstrated by indian offshorers to enter into a contract with a large corporation where they will provide warm bodies in exchange for a very low billing rate. Client wouldn't have any ability to interview the incoming cosultant, which means the offshorer employee is learning at the expense of the foolish client. Then that will be touted as "savings".
f) "Skill" of fly-by-night operators to shave off 70% of the billing rate through a 6-level pyramid of contracting companies

Should I add to this list of "skills" further?

oh dude you are talking of 20% of the folks that USCIS mentioned as fraud. Go after fraudsters. Talking of math skills you should be aware that 20% is minority. kapish?


I personally know a lot of Indian professors in Universities like Berkeley, Stanford, CMU, Michigan etc etc. What about their skill levels? My classmates are CS professors at some top Univs. Soem of them are chairpersons at top conferences. Are you going to point to them and say Indians math skills are not good?

[kcforgc]

If you are offended, I don't give a DAMN!! I know about India very well and has been to India many a times. I know very well about the indian corruption which has no comparison with any country in the developed world. All you have to look at is the suveys from various NGOs that track corruption at various countries in the world and you can see where India ranks relative to US or UK

Hunter dude..this is not the right platform for you to promote your racist agenda. And looking at your attitude I don't give a DAMN SH*** what you think or feel. Go find a job and update your skills. Are you afraid of competition? There is competition in any field you choose not just IT.

This is not a forum for you ANTIs...you low life.

[kshitijnt]

Let us talk about the "skills" introduced by H1/L1/offshore companies

a) One guy takes the phone interview for 15 other guys with "skills" they preted to have
b) Lying on the resume with "skills" that you don't have, so that you can learn the "skill" at the expense of the client
c) "Skill" in Violating B1 visa laws and sending people on B1 to do actual work to client
d) "Skill" in violating L1 law which is used to drive down the wages by 20-30%
e) "Skill" demonstrated by indian offshorers to enter into a contract with a large corporation where they will provide warm bodies in exchange for a very low billing rate. Client wouldn't have any ability to interview the incoming cosultant, which means the offshorer employee is learning at the expense of the foolish client. Then that will be touted as "savings".
f) "Skill" of fly-by-night operators to shave off 70% of the billing rate through a 6-level pyramid of contracting companies

Should I add to this list of "skills" further?

Hey Hunter, were you born in this world with C++ knowledge baby? I have said to some of my managers and also clients that I was interested in the job because I wanted to ramp up skills in that area and they were more than willing to give me that job.

And let me guess, you are someone who hates Indians, isnt it, so why dont you spend some time upgrading your skills , will help you in your own personal skills and career? Rather than waste time on this board.

[kshitijnt]

Hey J(erk) Thomas,
Shove your condescending advise to where the sun never shines. It is NONE of your BUSINESS to tell me or anyone what they should be doing. No wonder average americans have started hating people like you and want to drive you out of the country.

If you think that you can fool everyone all the time, you are sadly mistaken. Even by DOL estimates, there is 20% fraud with H1. The real figure could be a lot higher than that

I am not the only one expressing these opinions in this forum, as I can see, "TN Man" has suggested pretty much the same here. There is no point in trying to close your eyes to reality.

Senator Grassley and Durbin wants Google and Yahoo to succeed in US. But they don't want Indian cyber-koolies like the body shops and TCS/INFY/Wipro to steal american jobs under the guise of globalization.

For all the geniuses out here, how many companies like Google or Microsoft or yahoo came out of India in the last 20 years? Yeah, that is what I thought too.. BIG ZERO. But if you read J(erk) Thomas' response, one would have thought that India is full of competitors for Microsoft and Google today :D :D :D

Hey Hunter, so do you think India should buy from Boeing, Pepsi, Coke and even Ford? Should Indians be driving coolie cars made by ford? No wonder India would want to place a larger order with Airbus in return. And Dont you remember that during bankruptcy of airlines, Indian routes were their lifeblood and european routes were bleeding. So should we force to cancel a few more flights to India by these airlines?

[kshitijnt]

Hunter, this is the first sensible post from you. Now you agree that abusers of this H1 visa system are corporations not the immigrants on their own. So far you were busy bashing immigrants.

Also if US is a free market and capitalist society, why should corporates employ "whoever" is locally available. Its a private money afterall. Shouldent it be upto them to decide how to spend? Also most US corps, have local presence and as for taking a tax break, I hope companies did not promise to create "ALL" jobs in US. Majority of local jobs go to US citizens. They still create thousands of local jobs and pay H1 visa fees part of which goes to train american workforce. If the wages were equal, its more expensive for a company to hire H1 worker.

[senthil1]

It is not true that all the H1bs are creating jobs. For one example I worked in a big garment company and they laid off hundreds of people(around 800) 4 years back and did offshoring 90% with 10% H1b and L1 to Infosys. This would have created less than 10 new admin jobs for setting up office here but it displaced 800 jobs plus all the new projects(jobs) go to Infosys and US government lost millions in taxes for a private company to save a few million dollars. But if a H1b is a real innovator or investor then he could create scores of new jobs but those guys are very less. They should be identified and rewarded by faster GC process.

But real intention of H1b when it was created was to fill shortage of skills but not for competing with citizens in rate. If the real intention is to compete globally then that needs to be revealed while lobbying with Senators. There is nothing wrong with immigrants or H1b persons. Most abuses are done and enouraged by employers. Corporations prefers a person always to be in H1b so they want more H1b quota and less gc so that they can exploit people.

Basically H1b numbers and offshoring needs to be increased when demand is high(Really it was needed on 1999 and 2000) and it needs to be decreased when demand is low. Also today also there is shortage of skills in a few areas. System should handle those also.


Hunter, this is the first sensible post from you. Now you agree that abusers of this H1 visa system are corporations not the immigrants on their own. So far you were busy bashing immigrants.

Also if US is a free market and capitalist society, why should corporates employ "whoever" is locally available. Its a private money afterall. Shouldent it be upto them to decide how to spend? Also most US corps, have local presence and as for taking a tax break, I hope companies did not promise to create "ALL" jobs in US. Majority of local jobs go to US citizens. They still create thousands of local jobs and pay H1 visa fees part of which goes to train american workforce. If the wages were equal, its more expensive for a company to hire H1 worker.

[shouldIwait]

Few responses to Mr. Hunter.

I'm not blind to stereotyping in this forum or elsewhere. It's not you vs. them kinda thing. You ARE stereotyping based upon some TRUE things but it is still stereotyping, isn't it.

Also, you understood some of my comments wrong. All I was saying is that due to big ISV's like TCS/INFY/WIPRO and mushrooms of bodyshops the actual worker gets pennies on a dollar and they keep the booty. So it's not the worker who causes wage depression it's the circumvention of the spirit of law that these companies do which causes it. I say "spirit of law" because they still stay within the legal framework. As far as offshoring is concerned it's a big discussion in itself and forces of capitalism and globalization are at work. None of us can prevent that but we can counter it by moving up in the value chain.

The scenario you described about modus operandi of big Indian ISV's is 100% correct but to generally imply that Indians are 1/5th as good as Americans when it comes to IT (50 member team vs. 10-12 member team) is a supremacist attitude and completely untrue.
It is true that the Indian counterparts are usually of much younger age but rarely substandard for the job. Companies realize that IT is no-longer considered rocket-science and they can save a few bucks. Try to think objectively keeping personal impact aside.

Now regarding overall economic input of immigrants there are issues broader and larger than you mentioned. Some of the smaller points you mentioned are true but you are completely missing the big picture. We can discuss that in a different thread :)

When Bill Gates says best-and-brightest it applies to individuals and not a VISA category, he's not lying. Among the 65K every year you'll find people from all skill levels, cream-of-the-cream to just-about-ok, and a few rotten-apples too. The immigration system is not designed to test skill level. Overall it's old, irrelevant and doesn't help anyone. It needs to be re-designed but unfortunately people are divided on fake lines and ignore the real issues or rather real solutions.

Although you have said it differently but you are right that solution to mine and your problems lie at the same spot, a modern, common-sense, immigration system that promotes best-and-the-brightest (Indian and American) and discourages exploitation.

[kshitijnt]

It is not true that all the H1bs are creating jobs. For one example I worked in a big garment company and they laid off hundreds of people(around 800) 4 years back and did offshoring 90% with 10% H1b and L1 to Infosys. This would have created less than 10 new admin jobs for setting up office here but it displaced 800 jobs plus all the new projects(jobs) go to Infosys and US government lost millions in taxes for a private company to save a few million dollars. But if a H1b is a real innovator or investor then he could create scores of new jobs but those guys are very less. They should be identified and rewarded by faster GC process.

But real intention of H1b when it was created was to fill shortage of skills but not for competing with citizens in rate. If the real intention is to compete globally then that needs to be revealed while lobbying with Senators. There is nothing wrong with immigrants or H1b persons. Most abuses are done and enouraged by employers. Corporations prefers a person always to be in H1b so they want more H1b quota and less gc so that they can exploit people.

Basically H1b numbers and offshoring needs to be increased when demand is high(Really it was needed on 1999 and 2000) and it needs to be decreased when demand is low. Also today also there is shortage of skills in a few areas. System should handle those also.

Well there are different examples you can cite all the time to turn the argument in your favor. By themselves H1Bs in that status can not create jobs, because they are bound to the employer. However there is no denying that a lot of them such as those who graduated from US universities with masters degrees, those from IIT or IIMs are smart and bright individuals. I know at least 2 Indians , family friends that after getting their green cards, started companies on their own and now employ hundreds locally if not thousands.And let me tell you these are not desi consulting cos. The very premise of tying an H1 to employer is wrong, not the individual by himself. Instead if there is point/skill based immigration system then it will ensure only the brightest will come inside the country. Currently the decision to hire the immigrant rests with an employer and hence we see systematic corruption to some degree.

Also what I said was companies are profit oriented business entities. Of course they will want to hire people who best benefit their business. Nobody is stopping a local from proving that.

[shouldIwait]

After so many countries who receive major immigrant influx like UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand have implemented a points based system why on earth lawmakers here don't wake-up. In a post-crisis world if US does not regain the old economic supremacy we'll see expatriate population redirecting itself.

It's already happening with Canada's AINP program. If some of the anti-immigrant comments are to be believed Canadians must be darn fools :D

[old_hat]

Hey J(erk) Thomas,


For all the geniuses out here, how many companies like Google or Microsoft or yahoo came out of India in the last 20 years? Yeah, that is what I thought too.. BIG ZERO. But if you read J(erk) Thomas' response, one would have thought that India is full of competitors for Microsoft and Google today :D :D :D

dude, how many immigrants/H1/L1/GC/Gc->US citizens work for google/Msoft/Yahoo. And if you are naming these corporations as the benchmark of success/technical excellence why do you not listen to what they say about visa programs?

[shouldIwait]

dude, how many immigrants/H1/L1/GC/Gc->US citizens work for google/Msoft/Yahoo. And if you are naming these corporations as the benchmark of success/technical excellence why do you not listen to what they say about visa programs?

In addition why have these companies set up big shops in India. Although the innovations didn't happen there and there are several valid reasons for that, but just the fact that they have big footprints there means that they are able to find talent there.

[newtoearth]

Look at this looser.. Don't have a job and typing such a long long prose stories get over his career failures and projecting his impotency as some else’s fault... This bloody racist is out of job because of his such a rude behavior... But we have a job... so it is waste of our time talk to this bloody...

Hey fool Hunter.... you are a bloody illegal in this country get out of here if you don’t know history ask your grand father. First do some thing about your illegal status and then talk about India. You are cultured less brut, I repeat cultured less brut. Its damn real that your youngsters are doing only three things drinking, sex, crime...



Thank you for admitting most of what I stated here true. Actually all of what I stated here as “skills” are based on my experience in IT management over the last decade. If you suddenly found my post to be stereo typing, you were blind to the stereotypes propagated in this forum for a long time.


You are wrong here. Do you know that companies like TCS/INFY/Wipro offer “blended rates” in the range of $20+/hr for keeping over 70% of staff offshore? Client directly benefits here. I have seen hypocritical companies that took tax benefits from local governments like cities and counties (which came at the expense of property taxes paid by residents of those localities) for job creation and then turned around and outsourced the very same jobs that they were supposed to create to TCS/Wipro/INFY etc., often dismissing the existing contractor pool/employees which involved people of all nationalities including H1-b workers like “TN Man” who couldn’t compete with the $30+ rates for the on-shore workers even if something was available from these vendors. Now to dump people at $30/hr rate, even though talent is locally available - like "TN Man", these vendors will abuse H1 and L1 by securing as many of these visas as they can( which were intended to bring the best and the brightest for american companies), causing Bill Gates to advocate for unlimited H1-bs when in reality, what he needs is a few thousand H1-bs which should be available in normal circumstances, had these companies not been poaching those visas.

So these offshore companies circumvented the prevailing wages through an industrial practice that should be considered “dumping”, where they dumped green-horns for the greedy clients, because the green-horns don’t have to go through any interviews in exchange of the very low rates. In this case, the people dismissed from the company/contractors were a lot more skilled, yet managers like me would be forced to start from scratch with the new pool, often resulting in delays for strategic initiatives at these companies, but the bean counters at the top never care, since their horizon is the next quarterly earning release, not what the company would do 2 years down the line (and some of these companies are the culprits behind financial crisis today with their very myopic thinking, just a sample was illustrated above)

The only jobs that were created in those localities due to such corporations in exchange for tax credits often were Indian Grocery shops opening in that locality to cater to those folks from offshore vendors. :D BTW, I don't have anything against them, I like Indian food.

I have worked with companies where I managed a 50+ member team to execute a project which at another company employing local workforce may have been done with a 12-15 person team (I have managed it both ways and hence I know that as a fact). Now the company employing the 50+ member team will often massage the numbers to show that they saved $x differential per person* 50 for the bean counters and would have secured bonuses for the higher ups because of those paper savings.

Now I think as a result of people like me interacting with US law-makers, they are getting the true picture of the abuse going on with the current processes. I understand many of you here are concerned about your own career and eventually settling in US, but once you become a permanent resident or US Citizen, you are going to face the same realities. I have seen Indian-americans who went through the GC/Citizenship process becoming some of the the fiercest critics of the current system, because (like "TN Man"), their livelihoods also are threatened by the current process. They suddenly understand that it has nothing to do with the so-called "skill" or "talent" shortage, it has everything to do with what your hourly billing rate is.

[newtoearth]

....

[shouldIwait]

Please refrain from this cheap low level talk. By talking like this you are demonstrating you lowly state-of-mind, nothing else. :mad:

[poorslumdog]

Then why do you bother to desparately stay in US? Vote with your feet.

How do you care. If you are trying to convince us to leave the country...its not going to happen. Why do you waste your time. Get beer and chill out. Dont waste your as well as our time.

[kshitijnt]

Are you sure you are not confusing with Indian epics that discuss how Lord Brahma had sex with his own daughter? :D :D

Unfortunately, you are showing your culture here with responses like this by clearly proving that you are incapable of provding a proper response. You are not making any case here, actually you are undermining it. This clearly shows the contempt that you have for the people of the country where you are desparately trying to immigrate to.

If things were so rosy in India compared to US, you wouldn't be posting in this forum, will you?

As a matter of fact, people like you, irrespective of the qualifications, should never be allowed to immigrate to anywhere. You should remain in India or should I say "arsha-bharatha"?


What are you showing hunter here? American hipocracy & bigotry in full light? How is your culture any good with what you have posted?

[jthomas]

hunter,

I am not one of the IT guys. and you have no rights to talk about any countries culture you are unaware of. Secondly, if you want H1B guys to go away,
Heres a deal for you,
1. Get a letter from Senators and Lawmakers, that those H1B guys who have contributed to the economy by filling patents and doing reseach should get out of the country. I will be the one to get out first.
2. Lean this, business are been done to make profits. Employers in this country think about themselves not about you. Check John Hanity show and they will teach you the fundamentals. If employers don't earn any profits they won't do a business.

you are not going to gain anything by expressing your thoughts here. Go and get drunk.

I am not at all interested in being in US. US is not the best in technology anymore. Europe is doing much better.

You have great thoughts, Talk to the senators and tell them to give our Social secutity, and other benifits we paid for and see how we move out of this country.

Please, don't reply to any of the Hunters thread. ITs not worth it. Let this mad guy keep on posting.

Are you sure you are not confusing with Indian epics that discuss how Lord Brahma had sex with his own daughter? :D :D

Unfortunately, you are showing your culture here with responses like this by clearly proving that you are incapable of provding a proper response. You are not making any case here, actually you are undermining it. This clearly shows the contempt that you have for the people of the country where you are desparately trying to immigrate to.

If things were so rosy in India compared to US, you wouldn't be posting in this forum, will you?

As a matter of fact, people like you, irrespective of the qualifications, should never be allowed to immigrate to anywhere. You should remain in India or should I say "arsha-bharatha"?

[old_hat]

Are you sure you are not confusing with Indian epics that discuss how Lord Brahma had sex with his own daughter? :D :D

Unfortunately, you are showing your culture here with responses like this by clearly proving that you are incapable of provding a proper response. You are not making any case here, actually you are undermining it. This clearly shows the contempt that you have for the people of the country where you are desparately trying to immigrate to.

If things were so rosy in India compared to US, you wouldn't be posting in this forum, will you?

As a matter of fact, people like you, irrespective of the qualifications, should never be allowed to immigrate to anywhere. You should remain in India or should I say "arsha-bharatha"?

dude you are yet to show data to correlate students graduating correlating with H1 visa numbers. You say that Ms/Yahoo/Goog have no peers in India yet refuse to acknowledge these guys stand on visa status. You claim you have not found any indian with good maths skills but you can not explain the professors in top universities nor can you explain the number of phds there.

No I would not attribute you as representative of us culture as i meet much better people in life everyday. you obviously think that your three trips to india gave you deep understanding of indian culture which is like saying you understood quantum theory in 1 min. you obviously are talking out of your ass. and if u think "arsha-bharata" makes any sense to vast majority here you are talking out of your ass.

btw can you describe which indian epic discusses brahma? keep in mind the word "epic". For your help here is the meaning

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dict.asp?Word=epic

No dount you tie yourself in knots every where.

[bigboy007]

Hunter's Internet knowledge is awesome and hilarious .. May be this is how he does his coding if hez an IT guy... :D I dont think we all should get to his level to argue... Argument should be made with equally knowledgeable ppl.

His "Distortion" of facts will not change the current scenario.. nor his Internet Knowledge will land him an OSCAR award.. Let him live in his fantasy life.. No doubt Hunter is from a "Great" culture... Unfortunately he doesnt know the meaning of that...


Are you sure you are not confusing with Indian epics that discuss how Lord Brahma had sex with his own daughter? :D :D

Unfortunately, you are showing your culture here with responses like this by clearly proving that you are incapable of provding a proper response. You are not making any case here, actually you are undermining it. This clearly shows the contempt that you have for the people of the country where you are desparately trying to immigrate to.

If things were so rosy in India compared to US, you wouldn't be posting in this forum, will you?

As a matter of fact, people like you, irrespective of the qualifications, should never be allowed to immigrate to anywhere. You should remain in India or should I say "arsha-bharatha"?

[kshitijnt]

See the url below.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/training/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=215900774&subSection=H1B

I don't give a damn what your epics say or what you practice in India. All I pointed out was teh corruption in India pointed out by international agencies compared to western democracies.

Oh there is no corruption in western democracies. :) LOL

Iraq war had no corruption
Halliburton deal had no corruption,
AIG had no corruption, BOA , Citi had no corruption.
Lobbying had no corruption
The texas cops who took money were not corrupt.
Abu Ghraib was very morally correct.
Blackwater was a very level headed company.

Did all this happen in some communist eastern state?

[old_hat]

See the url below.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/training/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=215900774&subSection=H1B

"The Computing Research Association's annual Taulbee Survey of 192 U.S. universities with doctoral programs found that total enrollment by majors and pre-majors in computer science increased 6.2% last year. If only declared majors are considered, the figure jumps to an 8.1% increase, the first boost in computer science majors in six years. "

Are you happy now? Since H1-B quota is reduced, more students are considering computer science as a viable option. If H1-B is limited only for genuine requirements by american companies for the best and brightest and not used as displacing american companies by indian crooks from TCS/INFY etc., even more americans will go for those degrees.

Are you satisfied? Now get lost!!



Go f*** urself. It was your fellow country-men (a jerk desparately trying to immigrate to US) who was making nonsense incest allegations first in this forum about americans. Do you get it,IDIOT, before lecturing me?

I don't give a damn what your epics say or what you practice in India. All I pointed out was teh corruption in India pointed out by international agencies compared to western democracies.


dude, not a meaningful response. I asked you to give me the break up of foreign students. the report just talks about total number of students increasing. And again it nowhere gives data to suggest that responder thinks that reduction of h1 visa numbers is the reason. I will give you a very simple reason. It took tech sector a good 3-4 years to get out of the dot com mess!

Dude it seems you are not doing too well in IT but you should thank your stars that you did not consider the alternative career of law. you would have been massacred. your points are vague. you make utterances that tie yourself in knots and you throw words you know very little about. Start with naimg two indian epics.. next step find brahma there.


btw "f** u" does not qualify as an argument. you can thrust it where you are speaking from.

[old_hat]

Oh, did that comment on Brahma and Saraswati incest hurt you? tsk, tsk, tsk.. too bad.

Well, you should have read and responded to the comment before that before pretending to be hurt about my response. I didn't start it.

If you are ready to make such bigoted comment, NEVER expect that you can get away that. Believe me, internet is limitless and I can shovel dirt about India in this forum, if I want to with a google search(which is not my intent here)

that is your problem dude. you can shovel dirt but can not argue with reason. Logic gets lost in passion and words whose meaning you do not know get thrown around and tie you in knots. btw logic is another major component of software engineering and on current evidence its not your strong point.

[kshitijnt]

Oh, did that comment on Brahma and Saraswati incest hurt you? tsk, tsk, tsk.. too bad.

Well, you should have read and responded to the comment before that before pretending to be hurt about my response. I didn't start it.

If you are ready to make such bigoted comment, NEVER expect that you can get away that. Believe me, internet is limitless and I can shovel dirt about India in this forum, if I want to with a google search(which is not my intent here)

Yes of course, I didnt go to any american forum to shovel dirt but you did come here just like Bush doctrine of pre empting anyone who you are remotely jealous about. So it shows who is bigoted & uncivil. It does talk a lot about your "mentality" or rather american mentality.

[old_hat]

Hey Moro1n, the difference is, most americans agree that things are going wrong. We don't whitewash what happened unlike what your compatriots are trying to do here, when someone brings up corruption in India. I cited surveys by international agencies that make comparisons that consider a number of factors, not by anecdotal evidence based on a few high profile news stories.

Wasn't most of these corruption stories broken and pursued by american media itself? Didn't republicans lose power in 2006/2008 elections?


man you have lost your focus. you came here to argue on h1 visas and now are rolling in the muck. ability of focus is an important thing to consider while hiring.

[old_hat]

Go f*** yourself with nonsense about logic. Wasn't it your compatriot from India who started writing nonsense about americans here.

This is precisely the problem with Indian mentality that average americans interacted with americans complain about. Unfortunately IDIOTIC indians such as yourself think for some reason you have a monopoly on logic, when you are the one who involve in emotional arguing as can be evidenced in this thread. Read the last 1 page


dude you trying to prove a point. if you get distracted your argument is lost. name calling "fuck you", "idiot", "morons" do not even tingle me. may as well write an auto slang generator.

[kshitijnt]

Hey Moro1n, the difference is, most americans agree that things are going wrong. We don't whitewash what happened unlike what your compatriots are trying to do here, when someone brings up corruption in India. I cited surveys by international agencies that make comparisons that consider a number of factors, not by anecdotal evidence based on a few high profile news stories.

Wasn't most of these corruption stories broken and pursued by american media itself? Didn't republicans lose power in 2006/2008 elections?

Why you call me moron? Did I call you so when you posted all filthy things. We know there are problems in India so there are in US. Since you always show my country in poor light, I show yours.

[old_hat]

Hey moro1n, I stated in this forum that reduction in H1-b has prompted more american students to pursue degrees in computer science. You asked me for proof and I provided that by providing proof from a reputed industry publication. Simple.

Now you are trying to shift the goal post by blabbering nonsense here, since you have NOTHING to talk about here. So you drag in something about foreign students when the fact is that I didn't say anything about that here


where does it say that number of american students have increased. it just says number of students in american universities increased!!! and u say i am shifting the goal posts! btw the guy quoted in the article has "Harsha" as his second name. sounds indian to me. u may want to search indian history. a great king by that name.

in your earlier post you said i think we have monopoly on logic. i never said that and i just said that your statements are lacking in logic. that does not mean that you can never learn logic. again "monopoly" has a specific meaning and i did not say anything related to that you are getting ahead of yourself. most of your statements are.

[old_hat]

Following is a message from a poster "DICE" in my private message that I saw today



Typical desparate indian bullying behavior in the anonymity/ stabing from behind /duplicity and then they expect everyone to be civil towards them. Not going to happen....

I was making a civil argument here yesterday. But if this is the response I get, I don't see teh point in going for a civil discourse

i have not called you a single name and os far you have been trying to slag me off using childish insults and then you are complaining of uncivil behavior!

[kshitijnt]

Following is a message from a poster "DICE" in my private message that I saw today



Typical desparate indian bullying behavior in the anonymity/ stabing from behind /duplicity and then they expect everyone to be civil towards them. Not going to happen....

I was making a civil argument here yesterday. But if this is the response I get, I don't see teh point in going for a civil discourse

So the best thing is not to argue and focus on something constructive for yourself. Anyways, we allowed you to hijack our agenda now why dont you focus on highlighting your skills to employers rather than us. It will help you further your career. Else we are wasting each others time. Where does it say we have to be civil to you? Although we are. Americans always decide rules of engagement is it?

Everyone else lets just ignore Hunter. He is some anti immigrant , jealous, anti India guy who will always say something bad about India and Indians. He is brainwashed by numberusa, programmer guild, just like a madarassa from pakistan brainwashes terrorists. So lets just ignore him now on. I am sorry to have tried to convince this guy.

[old_hat]

If you read the ENTIRE article and the Q&A below that, you would have noticed teh following response from the author of that article



For all the talk about "logical reasoning", you seem to lack the basic ability to read and comprehend!!:D:D You seem to spend more time thinking about superficial stuff like last name of the the person conducting the survey instead of the findings from the survey by the author of that article. How pathetic!!

dude i read the article, i do not read the comments. It is not q&A. and for someone commenting on people's comprehension skills it clearly says

Hi: In answer to your questions, Peter Harsha from the Computing Research Assoc., which conducted the study, says while they did not ask for the students' demographics, he can tell us this:

talk of making up data!

[old_hat]

dude i read the article, i do not read the comments. It is not q&A. and for someone commenting on people's comprehension skills it clearly says

Hi: In answer to your questions, Peter Harsha from the Computing Research Assoc., which conducted the study, says while they did not ask for the students' demographics, he can tell us this:

talk of making up data!

btw, my personal experience is that the UG program is seeing more foreign students for computer science than before. again i would not vouch without a scientific survey. so u can take it or leave it.

[kshitijnt]

dude i read the article, i do not read the comments. It is not q&A. and for someone commenting on people's comprehension skills it clearly says

Hi: In answer to your questions, Peter Harsha from the Computing Research Assoc., which conducted the study, says while they did not ask for the students' demographics, he can tell us this:

talk of making up data!

Lets ignore him Old hat. This guy has an agenda to somehow show us in poor light. Roy beck has brainwashed him. He is not much different from Raj Thackrey of USA. So lets just ignore him. He has an extremist agenda and will go any length to prove his point.

[snathan]

So the best thing is not to argue and focus on something constructive for yourself. Anyways, we allowed you to hijack our agenda now why dont you focus on highlighting your skills to employers rather than us. It will help you further your career. Else we are wasting each others time. Where does it say we have to be civil to you? Although we are. Americans always decide rules of engagement is it?

Everyone else lets just ignore Hunter. He is some anti immigrant , jealous, anti India guy who will always say something bad about India and Indians. He is brainwashed by numberusa, programmer guild, just like a madarassa from pakistan brainwashes terrorists. So lets just ignore him now on. I am sorry to have tried to convince this guy.

Oh...man. It took so long to understand this simple fact. You will never be able to educate any antis. Their head is deeply buried into their ass. So do not respond anything to them . Just report their post to the moderator and they will simply ban those bigots. You can not teach anything to antis because you can not straighten the dog's tail.

just chill out and do not post anything in this thread.

[old_hat]

If you read the ENTIRE article and the Q&A below that, you would have noticed teh following response from the author of that article



For all the talk about "logical reasoning", you seem to lack the basic ability to read and comprehend!!:D:D You seem to spend more time thinking about superficial stuff like last name of the the person conducting the survey instead of the findings from the survey by the author of that article. How pathetic!!

And following is the facebook/linkedin for Peter Harsha. Sorry, he is not Indian, despite whatever logical reasoning you may have used to jump to that conclusion

http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Harsha/558830466
http://www.linkedin.com/in/peterharsha

BTW, is this how you write code also? Make some wild assumptions about requirements and produce something that is completely unusable? :p :p

dude you do not get tired of embarassing yourself! What you did is a perfect example of getting the specs wrong. I said the name sounded indian. i did not say he was indian. it was a test of your "deep" understanding of indian culture/heritage! "harsha" was very prominent indian king.

[kshitijnt]

Oh...man. It took so long to understand this simple fact. You will never be able to educate any antis. Their head is deeply buried into their ass. So do not respond anything to them . Just report their post to the moderator and they will simply ban those bigots. You can not teach anything to antis because you can not straighten the dog's tail.

just chill out and do not post anything in this thread.

Yeah man, took so long for me to understand but he gave me perfect opportunity to vent my frustration of visa bulletin :-d . Anyways, I should be more restrained now on.

[Dice]

Following is a message from a poster "DICE" in my private message that I saw today



Typical desparate indian bullying behavior in the anonymity/ stabing from behind /duplicity and then they expect everyone to be civil towards them. Not going to happen....

I was making a civil argument here yesterday. But if this is the response I get, I don't see teh point in going for a civil discourse


You had shown your true colours in Dice and you know what happened didn'nt you ;)

Now leave this forum, before you get kicked out, like your kind did off Dice.

Nobody gives a damn about what you think or what your opinions are, goto TunnelRats Blog aka itgrunt.com and shit as much as you want to. You're NOT welcome here, get the hint and get lost.

You're going to get banned anyways by tomorrow morning.

[nromkar]

I also saw a quote from one of the Indian offshoring company CEOs that only 25% of Indian engineers are employable. May be highschool dropouts in US may not be that bad when contrasted against that statistics, after all Bill Gates was also a dropout. Also the dime-a-dozen so-called "engineering colleges" in India that feed Indian offshoring companies are known for QUANTITY and not QUALITY. Indian students go for (or their parents pay for) those courses offered in those colleges precisely because they offer a better future - i.e. they feel they get a good ROI on their investment, even if they don't have the interest or aptitude for Computer Science or engineering. These days, these facts are known to a lot of americans working in IT.

If H1/L1 visa is restricted, that will give an incentive for americans to acquire a degree in science/engineering, just like the indian students taking courses in india offering a better ROI, as they get the feeling that they won't be discriminated in a job and investing $$$ in education is not going to be wasted. This is what President Obama also emphasized today about the need for fundamental change in unemployment allowances helping to retrain the laid-off workers.

It will no doubt cut into the obscene profit margins of TCS/INFY etc., as they will be forced to play by the rules.


My Dear Hunter,

Please answer below question without searching Internet:

What is DISCO file? and Where do you use this file?

lol..

All, Please ask Hunter any of your technical questions. He is a "GURU" in every subject...

[newtoearth]

Are you sure you are not confusing with Indian epics that discuss how Lord Brahma had sex with his own daughter? :D :D

Unfortunately, you are showing your culture here with responses like this by clearly proving that you are incapable of provding a proper response. You are not making any case here, actually you are undermining it. This clearly shows the contempt that you have for the people of the country where you are desparately trying to immigrate to.

If things were so rosy in India compared to US, you wouldn't be posting in this forum, will you?

As a matter of fact, people like you, irrespective of the qualifications, should never be allowed to immigrate to anywhere. You should remain in India or should I say "arsha-bharatha"?

I am not desperate you fool, I am here to take back the wealth stolen from my country (:mad:).
To under stand the depth and greatness of India you need to take 10 births you fools are still in stone age and still eating raw meat :D:D
You know what is your future your decedents will be licking my decedents shoes just like you are licking Obama's now.

[newtoearth]

...

[newtoearth]

....

[rockstart]

I agree with kshitijnt, It is major corporations & Boddy shoppers that have abused the H1B & L1 program. But Mr Hunter it is not just limited to Wipro Infy & TCS. I have seen Cognizant, IBM & CapGemini do the same. If you look closer these so called American owned and operated firms have pretty much used the same tactics that other offshore firms have used, plus they also claimed tax benefits (which have now been take off). What is needed is more close scrutiny of the entire program and as I has said earlier they need to close H1 & L1 visa which are too generic and start a new work visa program which caters to different classes. Example seperate work visa for graduates from US universities especially STEM with GC process independent of the quota. Outsourcing companies bringing in replacement workers to offshore jobs need a different visa. Contracting firms bringing people to work and then filing for GC should have a different visa since these jobs will not go out of US. Nurses * Teachers should get a seperate visa (not clubbed with IT programmes, Scientiests .....)


Hunter, this is the first sensible post from you. Now you agree that abusers of this H1 visa system are corporations not the immigrants on their own. So far you were busy bashing immigrants.

Also if US is a free market and capitalist society, why should corporates employ "whoever" is locally available. Its a private money afterall. Shouldent it be upto them to decide how to spend? Also most US corps, have local presence and as for taking a tax break, I hope companies did not promise to create "ALL" jobs in US. Majority of local jobs go to US citizens. They still create thousands of local jobs and pay H1 visa fees part of which goes to train american workforce. If the wages were equal, its more expensive for a company to hire H1 worker.

[ganguteli]

I just saw Hunter's status as banned.

Good that scumbag was kicked out. He may have been banned from Dice forums too. Dude, go learn some new skills rather than wasting time on the forums. Posting on the forums will not get you a job. You will only be kicked in your behind everywhere you go with your potty mouth. People like you are a disgrace to the good opinion people have of Americans.