Does anybody know if Oracle files green card

[waitingnwaiting]

Originally Posted by dipdowndust

I understand that Oracle does EB2 if all criteria are met, but for me I was just unlucky that in 2006, I initiated EB2 with different company and by 2007 beginning, Oracle acquired this company so I came in Oracle and then in July 2007 , everything became current under which I filed 485 and got EAD/AP. So, now Oracle says that since you have filed for 485, you have more flexibility in terms of job profile, so NO EB2. Oracle's policy is to act depending upon Lawyer's review and lawyer said that its not needed to do EB2, so HR says NO. Basically, its the immigration system which is messed up and these companies are too big to work on each cases and satisfy everybody's needs. Also, during EB3 filing process back in 2004, there was no discussion of retrogression and all.

How can you initiate EB2?

That is fraud.

Only the employer can initiate greencard process. Employee cannot be part of the hiring process. So you are asking a respected company like Oracle to help you with fraud?

[waitingnwaiting]

Originally Posted by fide_champ

It is an issue with big companies as they go by the book. Some of my friends are suffering the same fate with comcast, unless you are at a director level or above it's impossible to influence the GC processing.

What do you mean by influencing greencard processing. That is fraud and illegal and must be reported. You guys are writing such posts and proving that EB2 and EB3 greencard is filled with fraud. No wonder USCIS should be doing more strict with EB2 and EB3 applications now. There seems to be more fraud in EB2 and EB3 than any other greencard from the posts writton on forum. Honest people like us suffer because of fraud others do.

As per law if the emolloyer thinks the employee is valuable and they cannot get an american citizen to replace him, only then they can file for a greencard. They need to do a sincere effort to find an american citizen. And if they find an american citizen, no greencard can be filed for the employee and the foriegn worker must be replaced by the american citizen. This is why there is a 6- 8 month long labor certification process.

[dipdowndust]

Originally Posted by waitingnwaiting

Isn't EB2 for people doing jobs that need advanced degrees and doing cutting edge work? So if someone is not oding such advanced level work Oracle is right. Is it following the law and it should be appreciated. Other companies violate the intent of the law and give a wrong name to employment based immigration.

EB2 requires advanced degree+2yrs of exp or Bachlors+5 yrs of exp. doing high skilled work. By cutting edge I mean, how much is the work you are doing, crucial to the company and whether company wants to retain you or not. If they want to, then they might go extra mile to mend ways and facilitate you so that you do not leave. This is very common in software development where, if you are working on a mission critical products and if you decide to leave midway, then company may ask you what we can do to retain and that time, they may do whatever it takes to keep you. Back in the days, Intel was offering pre-approved labors to people whom they wanted to retain long term and crucial to their product. In big companies, all kinds of things happen, depending upon what you are doing and how much people above you can do. This has nothing to do about whether you are doing "EB2" kind of work or not as this is the given fact to even begin doing GC process as big companies go by absolute law. In my case, if today my top management really wanted to do EB2, they can do it lawfully, but they got scared by HR stating them policies and its consequences. My position requires MS+5 yrs OR BE+10-12 yrs of exp, so its well above EB2's req. Do not jump on conclusions without knowing what is somebody's point of view.

[dipdowndust]

Originally Posted by waitingnwaiting

How can you initiate EB2?

That is fraud.

Only the employer can initiate greencard process. Employee cannot be part of the hiring process. So you are asking a respected company like Oracle to help you with fraud?

I did not read this post earlier and replied you on post about "cutting edge" and EB2. I am sorry I posted you a reply on that one, as you do not deserve a discussion, if you want to term everything fraud.

By the way, how did you got job in USA ? Did you INITIATE that ? or Somebody actually came to your home and picked you up to their office for interview ? If you initiate that process, you are fraud too Take it easy..!!

[chanduv23]

Pappu and friends - hope you are doing great. I am reading this thread and have these thoughts. IV has a great voice and I have also noticed that the agencies and representatives that IV talks to are very helpful and informative.

The problem is with how the law is working against us - in other words, how big corporations (probably some of them) are not being flexible.

So, what I would recommend is that if a lot of qualified EB2 candidates who are on EB3 line are held back because employer is not being flexible, you all must form a group on IV and then address this concern to USCIS or any representatives like a campaaign. Put in a lot of reasoning etc.....

If there is favorable response from the department, it can probably in form of a statement from the agency that USCIS encourages companies to port for candidates if they qualify for EB2 as they REALLY deserve EB2 and also make it punishable under law to file EB3 for candidates when they were eligible for EB2.

By doing the above it gives a signal to lawyers and employers to do the "RIGHT" thing.

[chanduv23]

I also see that the infighting among EB2 vs EB3, US masters vs Indian Bachelors degree etc... is still continuing in our community.

Folks GC waiting is not the only problem in life - there are other bigger things in life which is more and more challenging.

When everyone are facing the same issue with varying degree - there must never be infighting. Everyone must work together to fix the problem.

Predictions and analysis helps - but working towards permanent fixes is most important.

[dipdowndust]

Originally Posted by chanduv23

Pappu and friends - hope you are doing great. I am reading this thread and have these thoughts. IV has a great voice and I have also noticed that the agencies and representatives that IV talks to are very helpful and informative.

The problem is with how the law is working against us - in other words, how big corporations (probably some of them) are not being flexible.

So, what I would recommend is that if a lot of qualified EB2 candidates who are on EB3 line are held back because employer is not being flexible, you all must form a group on IV and then address this concern to USCIS or any representatives like a campaaign. Put in a lot of reasoning etc.....

If there is favorable response from the department, it can probably in form of a statement from the agency that USCIS encourages companies to port for candidates if they qualify for EB2 as they REALLY deserve EB2 and also make it punishable under law to file EB3 for candidates when they were eligible for EB2.

By doing the above it gives a signal to lawyers and employers to do the "RIGHT" thing.

According to me, problem lies with the Lawyers and Companies, as particularly in my case, Lawyers said its not "required" to file my labor as there is no significant job change and HR said OK we cannot do. Now, if there was an open communication and willingness to help, then they could have looked at my point of view but instead they scare you with policies which I am not even breaking.

Also at the end of my discussion, lawyer said, But if company says to do we can do it !!! I said then tell this to HR and they said NO, we cannot tell them, YOU have to tell them to tell US. ??? This is where communication problem comes in. Everybody wants to be politically correct without really analyzing problem.

In my case, I was hired by Company A for EB3 level work, even though my credentials were EB2 level, therefore GC filed in EB3.

Now, Company A got acquired by Company B and I got promotion with EB2 req, so lawyer said we can do EB2 and started process.

Company B got acquired by Company C, so lawyers got changed and EB2 filing was halted and in some time (6-7 months) , July 2007 fiasco happened and I filed 485. Meanwhile got 2 promotions, so now my job req is significantly hire with completely changed job profile compared to what I was hired for in Company A.

If I want to file for Eb2, then I have to prove that my job profile is atleast 50% different which can be very easily proved as I have job post from original job and what Oracle demands and have hired for position I am in. I went thru this with my manager bullet by bullet and it was 70-80% different.

Another req for EB2 change is, that when YOU got promoted and got technically "hired" in a new title, what happened to the old lower level title ? Did company hired anybody for that title? In my case, YES, when I got promoted, in my group, they hired US Citizen at same title.

Also, since I have been thru several acquisitions, every time I have got offer letters as company can always choose NOT TO HIRE you. Company acquisitions, doesnt mean that you are AUTO hired as during Compay A to B acquisitions, some were laid off. So, it is not my progressive experience which I cannot use as everytime I was HIRED in new company. YES, technically my seniority is according to my very first hire date but Oracle also keeps track of the date THEY HIRED me.

On all above points, mine is a strong case to be EB2 and all EB2 change related challenges can be satisfied. BUT, then lawyers/company/HR do not want to look into all above scenarios and work with you. Somebody can comment if what I am saying is not right here.

I am providing these specifics so that it can be helpful for somebody else to change to EB2. I am up for any such initiatives where companies can be made aware of such issues and try to do changes.

[bsbawa10]

In case of Oracle, it is not HR creating the problem, not the attorney even but the Immigration Director (Her name indicates that she herself might be an immigrant). She who is adamant without even thinking that anybody whose green card was one filed by any other company in whatever category will never be filed again even it he/she was in the wrong category.

Obviously, she does not want to say that it is her decision (when it is), so she asks attorney to say no. The way she does it is by asking the attorney to determine of filing under EB2 is required by law or not and the answer is , "NO".

[chanduv23]

The issue is not with lawyers or employers. The main issue is that due to non clarity of the issue people face, the issues have never been collectively addressed.
When lawyers or employers behave in a way that does not help you - do you have any negotiating power or bargaining power?

Not just with immigration, but almost everywhere there is this problem.

Are we all born to suffer? Why do we suffer? We fall into unfortunate situations we really don't have a solution. But, if we find a way for a solution - and work towards it, maybe it will help us?

There is no point in blaming lawyer or employer for not helping you with immigration issues.

[cleopatra]

Originally Posted by bsbawa10

In case of Oracle, it is not HR creating the problem, not the attorney even but the Immigration Director (Her name indicates that she herself might be an immigrant). She who is adamant without even thinking that anybody whose green card was one filed by any other company in whatever category will never be filed again even it he/she was in the wrong category.

Obviously, she does not want to say that it is her decision (when it is), so she asks attorney to say no. The way she does it is by asking the attorney to determine of filing under EB2 is required by law or not and the answer is , "NO".

The way I see it, if your job duties are at least 50% different from your original EB3 job duties and if the new job requires a masters or BS + 5 and if the salary is significantly higher from your old position (not the usual annual raises), then it constitutes a material change in the job and hence requires a H1B amendment and starting a new EB2 GC process.

If the above conditions are true, then you cannot use your old EB3 to get GC as the job has changed materially. I am surprised that the lawyers are not pinting this out. They should be bringing this to the notice of the company.

The way I see it, if the above is true, then the company is not following the law if they continue to use the old EB3 and not file an amendment for the new job. Correct me if I am wrong, but you cannot use ac21 to work on jobs that is not same or similar and if the job duties have changed significantly along with minimum requirements, then it is not a same or similar job and AC21 does not apply and requires restarting of the process.

If not, the employee is at risk of getting their GC denied. If your job is genuine and you genuinely satisfy the above criteria, you can document the above points and bring it to the notice of the lawyers and your director. Maybe take the help of another attorney to show that the company is not following the law and is actually breaking it by not following the process.

But everything depends on the job being genuine and the actual minimum requirements needing an eb2 process and the applicant satisfying the requirements.

Just my 2 cents.

[tuhin]

...you have a solid case. The job responsibilities should be more than 50% different, for porting and other conditions should be met. I have been through this. It is a long process though, because it just goes by the book.Not sure about new GC applications.

[bsbawa10]

Originally Posted by tuhin

...you have a solid case. The job responsibilities should be more than 50% different, for porting and other conditions should be met. I have been through this. It is a long process though, because it just goes by the book.Not sure about new GC applications.

It does not. I had all of these. But I was told NO beacause your GC was once filed by another company, we will not file it again.

[dipdowndust]

Originally Posted by cleopatra

The way I see it, if your job duties are at least 50% different from your original EB3 job duties and if the new job requires a masters or BS + 5 and if the salary is significantly higher from your old position (not the usual annual raises), then it constitutes a material change in the job and hence requires a H1B amendment and starting a new EB2 GC process.

If the above conditions are true, then you cannot use your old EB3 to get GC as the job has changed materially. I am surprised that the lawyers are not pinting this out. They should be bringing this to the notice of the company.

The way I see it, if the above is true, then the company is not following the law if they continue to use the old EB3 and not file an amendment for the new job. Correct me if I am wrong, but you cannot use ac21 to work on jobs that is not same or similar and if the job duties have changed significantly along with minimum requirements, then it is not a same or similar job and AC21 does not apply and requires restarting of the process.

If not, the employee is at risk of getting their GC denied. If your job is genuine and you genuinely satisfy the above criteria, you can document the above points and bring it to the notice of the lawyers and your director. Maybe take the help of another attorney to show that the company is not following the law and is actually breaking it by not following the process.

But everything depends on the job being genuine and the actual minimum requirements needing an eb2 process and the applicant satisfying the requirements.

Just my 2 cents.

According to lawyer, "substantial" change in job role is if I completely change the field e.g. from being in software industry change to civil or chemical engineering field or become fitness trainer would require refiling of labor cert, else not required. I asked them if I become manager, director or VP within Oracle, isnt that a substantial change? Lawyer said NO, since I have filed for I-485 there is more flexibility in terms of job change within same company !! My manager was willing to get me a different role entirely in a different org within Oracle if that would help me file GC under EB2. But, due to this response, I couldnt even pursue that and only way out is to change company.

[njverifier]

Believe me Oracle is a blood sucker. I've been working with them for over 6 years now. No salary hikes, no promotions, no recognition... I am just stuck with them because of my GC. They just hire and fire employees... Don't even recognize your past performance. I've seen lot of my colleagues getting fired... Don't join this sucker unless you want get your career stagnated just like me.

[njverifier]

Oh I forgot to tell you that I have a masters and they still filed me in EB3, I didn't care as I was new to US 6 years ago but I have lot issues due to this... My career is doomed because of this guys...