DREAM Act reintroduced

[indianabacklog]

Originally Posted by Hermione

Indi, I am not antagonistic, and I do not mean it antagonistically. What I say is either true and insightful, or not. And who I am and what my situation is has not bearing on that, right?

If you would like to remove 'inadmissible' as a clause for DREAM act eligibility, I think you should write a passionate letter to legislators that calls to include 'admissible' children into the DREAM act, and publish it on this forum. I promise, I will send it over to my Senators/Congressmen.

I have written many a passionate letter personally to just about every senator in the country. I have received one single reply. They are no better than politicians in any other developed country. Want to hang onto their jobs, which means getting votes. Another post hit the nail on the head, there are simply not enough aged out children to change any politicians destiny so it is not important.

I appreciate the offer of you sending a letter on behalf of aged out children.

[claudia255]

Originally Posted by Hermione

First, it does not hurt legal kids, but if the act does not go through, it will sure make them feel better because someone else gets shafted worse than them, right? No, I am serious.

Second, I was talking about a real doctor. The one who does not take his Hippocrates promise lightly.

Third, you are simply wrong. Look up the word 'inadmissible' in the INA (hint- it defines those eligible in the DREAM act). It means, they cannot be admitted (change) to ANY legal status, ever. And I mean EVER. They will be denied (and deported) for an F1, H1, green card even if they get maried to a citizen. If they exit the country, they will not be able to enter the US for at least 10 years. If that does not give your the meaning of word "shafted", then I don't know what would. Welcome to American immigration system. I hope you feel better about your immigration status now.

And the last, I never said it is a perfect piece of legislation. No piece of legislation is perfect, but DREAM act is what we can get right now. The whole system is frigging injust and unfair (and not only to you and me), so where do you stand about changing it - make sure everyone else is getting treated worse, or make sure at least some will finally start having options? That's the real question.

Isn't the whole point of the DREAM Act to make those ineligible students for LPR status green card holders?
I quote"CONDITIONAL BASIS FOR STATUS.--Notwithstanding any other provision of law, and except as provided in section 3305, an alien whose status has been adjusted under section 3303 to that of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence shall be considered to have obtained such status on a conditional basis subject to the provisions of this section. Such conditional permanent resident status shall be valid for a period of 6 years, subject to termination under subsection (b)."
These students will first get a conditional status then be eligible for LPR status for a period of 6 years if they meet certain requirements.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Hermione]

Originally Posted by claudia255

Isn't the whole point of the DREAM Act to make those ineligible student to LPR status to make them green card holders?
I quote"CONDITIONAL BASIS FOR STATUS.--Notwithstanding any other provision of law, and except as provided in section 3305, an alien whose status has been adjusted under section 3303 to that of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence shall be considered to have obtained such status on a conditional basis subject to the provisions of this section. Such conditional permanent resident status shall be valid for a period of 6 years, subject to termination under subsection (b)."
These students will first get a conditional status then be eligible for LPR status for a period of 6 years if they meet certain requirements.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, you are correct, should DREAM act become law, they will be able to adjust to the conditional status. As the law is NOW, they are inadmissibe - not able to change or adjust to ANY status.

[Hermione]

Originally Posted by indianabacklog

I have written many a passionate letter personally to just about every senator in the country. I have received one single reply. They are no better than politicians in any other developed country. Want to hang onto their jobs, which means getting votes. Another post hit the nail on the head, there are simply not enough aged out children to change any politicians destiny so it is not important.

I appreciate the offer of you sending a letter on behalf of aged out children.

It is OK not to get a response, sending a letter still counts. I sent letters. I mentioned that legally present students should be able to benefit from DREAM act. If enough of us write about it, maybe, things will change.

[claudia255]

I believe the amendment will not change as it already came under fire this week for first having these students eligible for in-state tuition. Senator Durbin backed down on that because US citizens from out of state are not eligible for in-state tuition. I personally doubt that this amendment will be agreed upon. It was supposed to be done under radar but Anti-Immigrant groups are watching EVERY single bill or amendment that is being considered in Congress. And as usual, there are more anti-immigrant people given the opportunity to voice their opinions on major news outlets than there are pro-immigrant groups.

[Hermione]

Claudia, yes, there are more antis than.. anything, out there. But the truth is that Americans are materialistic, and don't value anything more than their own economic security. And their economic security depends on illegal and legal immigrants. So, they will have to address the issue, there is just no way around it. And those poor illegal children, after they graduate... I guess they can go to Europe and beef up European economy. If I were working for McKinsey or an international company like P&G, I would certainly try to hire one of them fo European operations - I just can't imagine anyone more driven then them.

I think EB immigrants should offer a solution that does not have the traits of an amnesty or legalization, but still helps to bring skilled and unskilled workers under the umbrella of EB immigration (they DO come to the US for work, dont' they?), and maybe, just maybe it becomes the solution.

[akgind]

Hermione: Your arguments go to the core of the issue of immigration for legals vs. illegals. For legals, it is a question of fairness. While, no one would grudge the betterment of others' life, those in the line with legal status feel unfair treatment if they see the door opening selectively for those without legal status. It is as true with DREAM Act, as with point system in the now defunct CIR, or Z visa holders getting GC faster than EB applicants.

Hermione, your line of reasoning holds only if you believe that entering this country with a valid visa does not entitle you to any preference over someone crossing the border in the dead of night without any papers. After all, both came here for work? Right? Moreover, since the latter had to live in shadows since coming here and has a "gun shot wound", he is morally entitled to preferential treatment over the legal guy who has a "mere fever" - as dictated by the Hippocrates oath.

Sounds a little funny? Does to me, at least. Not only funny, but very discriminatory.

[brb2]

The dream act will allow college aged illegals to get green cards, and then they can sponsor their parents when they naturalize.
Most legal immigrants are empathetic to the situation of illegals and feel for them, particularly for the post high school kids. However, having played by the rules they do expect to retain their spot in the green card que. So it is but natural, that, when they see they are unfairly being passed over by the Dream Act, they will join the anti-immigrants in torpedoing the bill. Unfortunately the democrats led by Diane Fienstein and Durbin exhibit a compulsive dislike for the "privledged legal immigrants", and have not learnt from past failures of their bills. Well, now I am off to numbersusa to shoot off a fax to my senators...

Originally Posted by Hermione

Claudia, yes, there are more antis than.. anything, out there. But the truth is that Americans are materialistic, and don't value anything more than their own economic security. And their economic security depends on illegal and legal immigrants. So, they will have to address the issue, there is just no way around it. And those poor illegal children, after they graduate... I guess they can go to Europe and beef up European economy. If I were working for McKinsey or an international company like P&G, I would certainly try to hire one of them fo European operations - I just can't imagine anyone more driven then them.

I think EB immigrants should offer a solution that does not have the traits of an amnesty or legalization, but still helps to bring skilled and unskilled workers under the umbrella of EB immigration (they DO come to the US for work, dont' they?), and maybe, just maybe it becomes the solution.

[Hermione]

Originally Posted by brb2

Well, now I am off to numbersusa to shoot off a fax to my senators...

If more legal immigrants do that, there will surely be more fair legislation heloing legal immigrants.

[brb2]

Well, if there is not new legislation, all legal immigrants need to do is sit out while their visa number becomes "current". It is better than seeing illegals jumping in the que ahead of them. But unfortunately liberal lobbies do not understand that legal immigrants waiting for green cards will rather kill any legislation that puts them at the back of the que than sit on the side lines and have illegals jump the que.

Originally Posted by Hermione

If more legal immigrants do that, there will surely be more fair legislation heloing legal immigrants.

[Hermione]

Originally Posted by brb2

Well, if there is not new legislation, all legal immigrants need to do is sit out while their visa number becomes "current". It is better than seeing illegals jumping in the que ahead of them. But unfortunately liberal lobbies do not understand that legal immigrants waiting for green cards will rather kill any legislation that puts them at the back of the que than sit on the side lines and have illegals jump the que.

NumbersUSA support a lot of new legaslation, particularly, to limit legal immigration. You obviously want to have EB visa numbers cut down to 50K a year. That is the kind of new legislation you are actively supporting right now. My take, it is because you want to be stuck in retrograssion for another 10 years (and maybe that's what you deserve).

Illegal kids 'jusp the queue'? They lived in this country for 10+ years just like some of us, and they will not get their green cards for another 6 if the law is enacted. On top of that, their queue has nothing to do with EB queue.

You waited long, you understand the system is unfair. And the thing that makes it worse for you, is if someone else gets a break from all of that unfairness? Gimme a break...

[Jaime]

Originally Posted by Hermione

NumbersUSA support a lot of new legaslation, particularly, to limit legal immigration. You obviously want to have EB visa numbers cut down to 50K a year. That is the kind of new legislation you are supporting right now.

Illegal kids 'jusp the queue'? They lived in this country for 10+ years just like some of us, and they will not get their green cards for another 6 if the law is enacted. On top of that, their queue has nothing to do with EB queue.

You waited long, you understand the system is unfair. And the thing that makes it worse for you, is if someone else gets a break from all of that unfairness? Gimme a break...

The unfairness is not that illegal students get a break, but that legal students (children of H-1B visa holders) don't get the same break, and they are destined to "aging out" and thus not being eligible for a Green Card. That's the unfairness

[Hermione]

Jaime, again, I never said this was a perfect piece of legislation. It porvides a break to just one goup of immigrants. Would it be better if it provided a break for more immigrants - yes. Is that a reason to kill the hopes of one groups of immigrants because the law does not include another group? Well, for some people it is not only that, but a reason to join NumbersUSA, and I honestly, just plain don't get it.

Where do you see people posting letters to lawmakers that call to inlude aging out children into the DREAM act? There are none here. Nonetheless, there are no shortage of people who would go and screw other immigrants, just because the bill does not give anything to them. Is that the higher way?...

[akgind]

Hermione: How do you reconcile your support for the Dream Act in its current form with your statement:

"I think EB immigrants should offer a solution that does not have the traits of an amnesty or legalization, but still helps to bring skilled and unskilled workers under the umbrella of EB immigration"

Do you imply that the burden of bringing common solutions for both legals and illegals lies solely with the legal group, while the illegals continue to promote legislation that excludes legal students through efforts like the current Dream Act?

I am fully aware of the tough conditions under which unskilled workers come and live here. I also recognize that it is the same economic force that pulls both skilled and unskilled immigrants here. Both are suffering due to the immigration laws that run counter to the demands of the economy. So, it makes sense for them to work together. But, do measures like the Dream Act, that deliberately exclude one group, help in the process?

[Hermione]

Jaime,

I have an idea - why don't we look at the circumstances closely, and see what's really fair and what is not.

Both groups of children were brought by their parents. They had no way to choose, whether they come/stay legally or illegally. They could not have refused to come. So, with all fairness, it is not an achievement of the legal children that they are legal - they had nothing to do with it. Similarly, it is not the fault of the illegal children that they are illegal, because they had nothing to do with it. Both groudps did the right thing - they greaduated from high school and went to college. I would even argue that the illegal children made some striking achievements - if you think it is easy to fund your college education when your parents can't afford it, and you can only get private help because of your status, you are wrong. They are some amazing kids, those illegal students.

Next, let's look at what these children got. Legal children can go to college on F1, then can change to H1 for work. They will also eventully receive green cards after being sponsored by their parents through family-based category.

Illegal children got... none of that. They are inadmissible - that's a kiss of death in the immigration system. No F1 for them, no H1, no green card, nothing. If they exit the country, they will be barred from entry for 10 years. They can't even go to other countries to interview for a job!

If you are so keen of FAIR, how do you explain that one group got a 10-year sentence, and the other got nothing? Do you think it is fair? Now, tell me, what would your solution be.