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Retrogression, priority dates and Visa bulletins Issues surrounding the retrogression of the priority dates for the various employment based categories

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 10:11 AM
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Default Solution:12 mill illegals,THINK like the President

All,
The only problem with CIR is with 12-20 million undocumented workers.
If the President says Yes to amnesty, the native and legal people will say NO to the president and his party.
If the President says NO to amnesty, then undoc workers and Latinos will say NO to the President and his party.

Same problem exists for Republicans also.

So what is the solution. They say, may be the guest worker program, or agJobs or things like that.
But all these will make everyone here legalized, and its like rewarding those who could jump the fence and punishing those who follow the rule on the other side of the fence.
And legal residents dont like this.

So, dear Smart brains,

Lets think if we can find some solution to this issue and suggest the policy makers.. THINK.. There is some solution out there, right.. which will be implemented in 2 months, or 6 or 1 year or 10, .. If we too think, its possible, solution comes faster, and so will CIR.
I seriously doubt if they put hurdles to legal applicants, but the problem is, its tied to this BILL, which people consider it as Amnesty bill, UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS bill, ILLEGAL ALIENS BIL etc.. thats how they are seeing it. So we must think this problem also now and see if some plan comes up.
What do you think, if you were the President.
The solution for the undocumented workers must satisfy everyone.

I'm sure IV can reward someone for an excellent idea. We will contribute.
May be I'll win.. let me think...

Last edited by sri1309; 05-03-2010 at 12:12 PM.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 10:22 AM
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Smile

problem solved! make a seperate state , move them in , make it a ecosystem , and let them rule it .

Last edited by sanju_dba; 05-03-2010 at 10:25 AM.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 10:42 AM
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Default New state carved out of Alaska?

I am withdrawing my comment. I dont think we should even joke about such things

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanju_dba View Post
problem solved! make a seperate state , move them in , make it a ecosystem , and let them rule it .

Last edited by h1b_forever; 05-03-2010 at 01:19 PM.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 12:57 PM
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Talking

I dont think anybody can start talking about legal status for undocumented people until and unless the borders are absolutely secure. Once the borders are secured then the policy of legalizing the ilegals might be debated.
Educating the masses regarding the benefits of immigration is a must. The general conept that immigration equates to job losses and wages decrease has to be addressed by those in the policy making bodies through the media.
Wages are obviously very high in the US to unsustainable level and that is why there is hardly any industry left here. Why then is the conern about declining wages? How can you encourage domestic production when the wages are prohibitive? The more you cut of immigration the more difficult it becomes to promote domestic manufactoring.
You have the baby boomers retiring soon and then the contributing population to SSN is going to decline. What happens then?
Now who will do this kind of education is still the question.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 01:22 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomachan72 View Post
I dont think anybody can start talking about legal status for undocumented people until and unless the borders are absolutely secure. Once the borders are secured then the policy of legalizing the ilegals might be debated.
Educating the masses regarding the benefits of immigration is a must. The general conept that immigration equates to job losses and wages decrease has to be addressed by those in the policy making bodies through the media.
Wages are obviously very high in the US to unsustainable level and that is why there is hardly any industry left here. Why then is the conern about declining wages? How can you encourage domestic production when the wages are prohibitive? The more you cut of immigration the more difficult it becomes to promote domestic manufactoring.
You have the baby boomers retiring soon and then the contributing population to SSN is going to decline. What happens then?
Now who will do this kind of education is still the question.
thats mainstream thoughts !
anything out of the way ?
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 01:30 PM
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Default

I think securing borders is just another excuse that the politicians give to delay the immigration reforms.

All know that the majority of the illegal immigrants are not the ones that sneak into the US but rather those who entered the US legally but then they over stay. Some how, however the focus is always on people who sneak across the borders..
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:44 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasbaby View Post
I think securing borders is just another excuse that the politicians give to delay the immigration reforms.

All know that the majority of the illegal immigrants are not the ones that sneak into the US but rather those who entered the US legally but then they over stay. Some how, however the focus is always on people who sneak across the borders..
In nutshell this is a very serious and complicated issue and there is no perfect solution. Even if the senate takes up any bills to be discussed there is an extremely slim chance that it will move ahead any further. A massive all inclusive bill is not simple to debate and pass. They should be considering splitting this up into multiple bills (not amendments to one huge immigration reform bill).
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 01:45 PM
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Default Just do it

If all everyone always talks about is how to stop illegal immigration, why don't they just do that than just sit and watch. Any action is better than inaction

Its almost impossible to stop people from sneaking across the border unless they stop businesses/people from hiring them.

It seems like everyone wants this "circus" to continue
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 01:47 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sri1309 View Post
The only problem with CIR is with 12-20 million undocumented workers.
If the President says Yes to amnesty, the native and legal people will say NO to the president and his party.
If the President says NO to amnesty, then undoc workers and Latinos will say NO to the President and his party.

Same problem exists for Republicans also.

So what is the solution
If you look at your daily life, you may have few problems of the same kind. We may not solve the whole thing, but portion of it by finding a balance.

Being a ruler of the country is very difficult, and too when he wants to do one thing and all his countrymen are against.

CIR can not be done in one shot. Probably piece by piece. Filter the undocumented, give about few hundred thousand first, then add a million in one or two years, then one million, like that.

By the way, why are we talking about "undocumented" here, what about "documented" ?
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 01:53 PM
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Default Here are some thoughts

1. For Legal immigrants,
Follow the current system of checks and balances (Labor/I-140 etc) and grant them the green card upon merit. Providing relief to the backlogged community should be the only act required for these.
2. For Illegal immigrants:
a) Secure the borders before implementing any policy on them
b) Identify everyone of them by announcing some perks.. Like if you come forward to register you will get a SSN/some number etc
c) Put a timeline for all of them like 3 yrs to 5 yrs to work on a restricted wage limits and geographical limits (also to their employers just like H1-B). The intention here is to allow them to spread across the country than concentrating in one location and to allow some breathing time to the locals to march ahead of them in terms of job opportunities. For this period (of 3 or 5 yrs), these illegal immigrants can be given a pseudo green card. It means it is like GC, but with restrictions.
d) after that time period, their restricted GC becomes regular GC on par with legal's GC and have full rights to move anywhere in the country and to do any job that they like at any wage.
With this:
1. The politicians can claim that they are doing something to satisfy all the stake holders and there is a SOLUTION to the problem
2. The legals will get what they want after going thru all the pain in waiting for long periods for GC
3. The illegals will be brought into mainstream which will improve the economy because they will be responsible persons in the society by paying taxes and will have a normal life like legals
4. For locals, it doesnít sound like the government is giving amnesty to the illegals. Because locals are given sufficient time to move ahead of their competitors in the job market. and locals will feel that these illegals are getting some kind of punishment by these restrictions to get the legalization. at the same time if you think from the illegals standpoint, itís not the punishment but an opportunity to improve their life and legal status.

Hope I made some sense. All these are my views with no partiality towards anyone. I did not go deep into the murky politics but try to achieve the balance between different stakeholders, thinking everyone will agree to their own merits/demerits. And finally, all these should be done in good spirit, not leading to any racial profiling/dishonesty. REMEBER, any law is not good until it is interpreted and implemented correctly.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 02:36 PM
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Default Perfect Solution.....Replace them with robots

I.Robot.jpg
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 02:59 PM
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Default Some good feedback, keep going

Lets see if something comes out.
Understand for sure, again for sure... not to keep any hopes on CIR, unless this is handled.
Do NOT raise your hopes looking at what we see on TV, or the rallies etc etc..
They all may force the situation to bring the CIR to the forefront.. We all may clap at that time too..
THINK what happens after that.. The Bill will just FAIL.. Think how broken we'll become.. So let that not happen.. Lets get the solution for illegals which they or the government may not have thought about.. Undertand the bottom line.. All must be satisfied with the solution reasonably, and we cannot make anyone fully satisfied.. a 60% workable solution may be ok too..

Last edited by sri1309; 05-03-2010 at 03:02 PM.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 03:10 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soumeeram View Post
1. For Legal immigrants,
Follow the current system of checks and balances (Labor/I-140 etc) and grant them the green card upon merit. Providing relief to the backlogged community should be the only act required for these.
2. For Illegal immigrants:
a) Secure the borders before implementing any policy on them
b) Identify everyone of them by announcing some perks.. Like if you come forward to register you will get a SSN/some number etc
c) Put a timeline for all of them like 3 yrs to 5 yrs to work on a restricted wage limits and geographical limits (also to their employers just like H1-B). The intention here is to allow them to spread across the country than concentrating in one location and to allow some breathing time to the locals to march ahead of them in terms of job opportunities. For this period (of 3 or 5 yrs), these illegal immigrants can be given a pseudo green card. It means it is like GC, but with restrictions.
d) after that time period, their restricted GC becomes regular GC on par with legal's GC and have full rights to move anywhere in the country and to do any job that they like at any wage.
With this:
1. The politicians can claim that they are doing something to satisfy all the stake holders and there is a SOLUTION to the problem
2. The legals will get what they want after going thru all the pain in waiting for long periods for GC
3. The illegals will be brought into mainstream which will improve the economy because they will be responsible persons in the society by paying taxes and will have a normal life like legals
4. For locals, it doesnít sound like the government is giving amnesty to the illegals. Because locals are given sufficient time to move ahead of their competitors in the job market. and locals will feel that these illegals are getting some kind of punishment by these restrictions to get the legalization. at the same time if you think from the illegals standpoint, itís not the punishment but an opportunity to improve their life and legal status.

Hope I made some sense. All these are my views with no partiality towards anyone. I did not go deep into the murky politics but try to achieve the balance between different stakeholders, thinking everyone will agree to their own merits/demerits. And finally, all these should be done in good spirit, not leading to any racial profiling/dishonesty. REMEBER, any law is not good until it is interpreted and implemented correctly.
If you read the "proposed draft" from Reid, Schumer, Gutierrez et al, you will realize that they have suggested exactly what you mentioned above.

The problem is, it has the first measure what you mentioned first: secure the borders and create a system whereby illegals can be caught quickly and removed. Now that is very difficult to achieve in the current system; let alone the cost of doing it.

This is exactly where last CIR got stuck and no agreement was achieved; it broke down saying that "secure the borders first and then we will talk about the rest". Nothing happened on that front due to political reasons.

Now we are back to one and saying the same things again.

I had a discussion with an "anti-amnesty" white person (just someone I know and think is fairly smart); and he stated following:

1. If you have neighbouring coutries from where people have lots of reasons to immigrate you have two options:
- secure your borders, have a mechanism so that no illegal can survive even a day and then there will be no issue with amnesty
- If you borders are not possible to secure and removal of illegals are very difficult; then you have no option but to "live with a balance of some illegals"; granted that they are not paying taxes, have troubles with their families etc; but you can not provide amnesty as you can make these 12 million legal, you will have another 12 million to deal with in just a few years. It does not solve the problem and burden of illegals will never go down.

2. Legal immigration based on person's merit is, on the other hand, very healthy and will lead to the progress of the country. Now someone may not like immigrants as their "doctors, laywers and engineers", but if your education systems is not capable lf producing them at a required rate, they are better to be here as "immigrants" than not. Same is true with any person who can do a job that would otherwise be "outsourced". On a long run, the healthiest solution for any country would be to have an education system to produce them locally; but until they we have to "let them in".

Now, I believe that this person's thoughts are shared by many (and possibly majority) of the citizens.

Unfortunate reality is that we do not have representation enough to "separate" our fate from that of illegals. It is very sad that we have to piggy back issue #2 with issue #1 above.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 04:37 PM
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Default

Kondur,
I completely agree with what your "anti-amnesty" source stated. However, the main reason this issue has to be considered to some resolution is because kids are involved. Children who are either born here or migrate along with their parents ilegally are caught in between and have no place to go and no country of their own. This becomse even more painful when raids lead to seperation of the parents from the kids who are pretty much orphaned at this stage. This is the tragic situation which requires some sort of resolution. Otherwise the best way is as you suggested to tolerate the ilegals without making a big fuss of legalizing them. Anyway there is no simple solution. The policy makers can avoid this now but some day soon they will be forced to look at this issue right in the eye and face it. The Arizona law is just one of the signs that it is an issue that needs careful and immediate attention.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2010, 05:07 PM
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Default Good job

Quote:
Originally Posted by h1b_forever View Post
I am withdrawing my comment. I dont think we should even joke about such things
Good that you realized its a serious topic. You get a green from me for that..

It will get much more serious as things will soon go in the direction when it will hit headlines. We all will get much more excited.
BUT the anti-climax comes when it surely fails. I dont see one reason why this bill will pass. 12 mill legalization.. is absolutely NOT acceptable to any right minded American, or legal visa holder here. That too in current economy.
I am waiting for the CIR to happen and all of us be happy, but realistically speaking, it WILL fail in the current format. Let us not wait till then.
Either loose hope now, or think if something can be found. Talk to American colleagues to understand what they think is a good solution,. they are also watching AZ and rally news..

And as somebody was asking, why are we bothering about illegals.. it is because our issues are addressed in this bill, which is mostly considered Amnesty Bill. Thats what most Americans think, and do NOT want it to pass.

I really appreciate everybody for taking it serious. THANK YOU.
Like one other guy said " Think out of the box" .. See we are all getting serious now.

Last edited by sri1309; 05-03-2010 at 05:22 PM.
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