Effect of 300 Million-Population Level on Immigration reforms

[redcard]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2006/10/post_18.html


I am sure we all have been reading and hearing of this during the last few days… Was wondering how this is going to effect the immigration reforms. Sure people like Lou Dobbs and numberusa will start crying loud and about this and how immigration is effecting faster growth and that immigration is to be curtailed… but sure this thing is another negative thing that’s going to effect the immigration reform if any expected in near future..

[styrum]

All(!) the comments so far are xenophobic

[prince_waiting]

Don't worry the SKIL bill will be passed. Nothing can stop it. Neither Lou Dobbs nor numbersusa can do anything about it.
Lou Dobbs is a hypocrite who himself owns millions in stocks of the same multinationals he accusses of outsourcing jobs and recruiting through the H1-B program.
Issues such as outsourcing or immigration come into the thick of action during election times only.
Always remember what drives the election results is nothing but the fight between the liberals and conservatives in the American political system.
A very high percentage of people vote on the basis of their inclination towards issues like abortion and same sex marriage which affect the core definition of being a liberal or a conservative. High skilled immigration is too minor an election issue to be wasted upon.
As long as corporate America requires highly skilled professionals from other countries, xenophobic forces will not be able to stem such a flow.
Corporate America and not Lou Dobbs funds the political parties.We are in the cradle of capitalism and the green buck matters the most.
The SKIL bill will be passed in the lame duck session because CORPORATE AMERCA wants it badly.

[HarakoMeshi]

Originally Posted by prince_waiting

The SKIL bill will be passed in the lame duck session because CORPORATE AMERCA wants it badly.

We live in hope. I sure hope they will pass the bill. I also hope if such a bill passes it does more than simply expose another bottlekneck in the process. Recall how PERM was going to cut the waiting time by years, and it did it's job, but then we hit retrogression.

[perm2gc]

Originally Posted by HarakoMeshi

We live in hope. I sure hope they will pass the bill. I also hope if such a bill passes it does more than simply expose another bottlekneck in the process. Recall how PERM was going to cut the waiting time by years, and it did it's job, but then we hit retrogression.

Well Said!!!

[gsc999]

Population growth has been the major driver of US economy. Consumer spending is already a crucial player as was witnessed during last few years when capital/industrial spending was on the wane it was consumer spending that pulled out the US economy from doldrums. More people mean more consumers, that is how capitalism works. Now the population may be rising but the population is aging because of health care and the baby boomers are going to start retiring soon. All this will create a shortage of workers in key areas. Also, by 2020 China+India will start to a major part of world GDP in Purchasing power terms they are already around 20% according to a recent study. Don't worry this piece of news shouldn't impact immigration. GC is all about Skilled immigration not the family centric immigration that we currently have. Infact, this news gives us ammo to counter the current immigration system

[TheOmbudsman]

Prince_Waiting,

Your optmism is welcome in this time of depression and uncertainty. However, they look more like flawed and naive sentiment to many of us. Are you a core IV member ?

It doesn't matter whether Lou Dobbs owns stocks or not from companies which have business abroad. What you have to analyze is whether the trend of foreign offshoring affects or not the people WHO DO NOT HAVE stocks and vested interest on this:the middle class. Is it true that excessive offshoring, illegal immigration and even unskilled amnesty can hurt the American middle class. Is that true or not ? I will let you watch and figure out. If it is true, then you might not be so certain the SKULL bill will pass.

It seems your position on what Americans consider important is a bit off as well. If you have several American friends, talk to them you will see that no one is buying into the gay marriage thing at this time. Immigration is a true topic concerning lots of Americans. Just watch.

Good luck to us all.

Regards,

Your friendly Ombudsman.

Originally Posted by prince_waiting

Don't worry the SIL bill will be passed. Nothing can stop it. Neither Lou Dobbs nor numbersusa can do anything about it.
Lou Dobbs is a hypocrite who himself owns millions in stocks of the same multinationals he accusses of outsourcing jobs and recruiting through the H1-B program.
Issues such as outsourcing or immigration come into the thick of action during election times only.
Always remember what drives the election results is nothing but the fight between the liberals and conservatives in the American political system.
A very high percentage of people vote on the basis of their inclination towards issues like abortion and same sex marriage which affect the core definition of being a liberal or a conservative. High skilled immigration is too minor an election issue to be wasted upon.
As long as corporate America requires highly skilled professionals from other countries, xenophobic forces will not be able to stem such a flow.
Corporate America and not Lou Dobbs funds the political parties.We are in the cradle of capitalism and the green buck matters the most.
The SKIL bill will be passed in the lame duck session because CORPORATE AMERCA wants it badly.

[gsc999]

Originally Posted by prince_waiting

Don't worry the SKIL bill will be passed. Nothing can stop it. Neither Lou Dobbs nor numbersusa can do anything about it.
Lou Dobbs is a hypocrite who himself owns millions in stocks of the same multinationals he accusses of outsourcing jobs and recruiting through the H1-B program.
Issues such as outsourcing or immigration come into the thick of action during election times only.
Always remember what drives the election results is nothing but the fight between the liberals and conservatives in the American political system.
A very high percentage of people vote on the basis of their inclination towards issues like abortion and same sex marriage which affect the core definition of being a liberal or a conservative. High skilled immigration is too minor an election issue to be wasted upon.
As long as corporate America requires highly skilled professionals from other countries, xenophobic forces will not be able to stem such a flow.
Corporate America and not Lou Dobbs funds the political parties.We are in the cradle of capitalism and the green buck matters the most.
The SKIL bill will be passed in the lame duck session because CORPORATE AMERCA wants it badly.

---
Prince, yes, now that the so called, do nothing congress is pretty much a thing of past. We will have a Democrat Congress this November. Hopefully, they will address this injustice.

It is also interesting to see many new adherants of communism , who seem to "fight" for the so called middle class of America. Protectionism is the first step towards an ecomonic "hara-kiri." But again politics is about rethoric not logic.

[TheOmbudsman]

Hello folks,

You say "hara-kiri", but I answer with Masakatsu Agatsu.

There is no such protectionism when you have a steady 1 million+ bodies immigrating *every year* to this country. I support immigration, I am a proud immigrant and I think good people should continue to come to this country. Passing a bill which would open up the gates and import unlimited supply of cheap labor doesn't seem rational to me.

There are many talented people who could help and join this organization, but when we see simply adopt a blind effort without sensible and rational attitude, that scare a substantial number of positive individuals.

Wake up. Democrats are in pretty bad shape too. Virtually, Democrats do not have a solid plan and agenda out there to impress people and take over. If the bad mood from the Foley scandal - a gay senator talking to a boy - goes away in the next few weeks, then Republicans not necessarily will lose main seats. Even if the Dems win, remember that the Senate may be controlled by Republicans and the fight conservative vs liberals goes on. Sorry to tell you the situation doesn't look as simple as you and I would like.

We do not need to get angry and argue about this. Let's just wait for the November elections and talk about that soon.

Regards,

Ombudsman

Originally Posted by gsc999

---Prince, yes, now that the so called, do nothing congress is pretty much a thing of past. We will have a Democrat Congress this November. Hopefully, they will address this injustice.

It is also interesting to see many new adherants of communism , who seem to "fight" for the so called middle class of America. Protectionism is the first step towards an ecomonic "hara-kiri." But again politics is about rethoric not logic.

[makino_a55]

One on One with Gary Becker, Professor of Economics & Sociology University of Chicago
Monday, October 16, 2006
SUSIE GHARIB: The nation will hit a milestone tomorrow. Tomorrow morning at 7:46 am, Eastern daylight time, to be precise. That`s when the Census Bureau estimates our population will reach 300 million people. That number is a key figure for demographers, who predict future social trends as well as the use of resources like food and energy. This afternoon, Diane Eastabrook sat down with Gary Becker, professor of economics and sociology at the University of Chicago. She began by asking him whether 300 million people is enough or too much.

GARY BECKER, PROF., ECONOMICS & SOCIOLOGY, U OF CHICAGO: I don`t think it`s too many. I think the United States will do well as it gets more population. We`re basically an empty country relative to a lot of countries of the world. If we had 400 million people, we still have less people per acre than, say, Great Britain has now, Germany has now, Japan has now. Many other countries are doing very well and don`t seem to be overcrowded.

DIANE EASTABROOK, NIGHTLY BUSINESS REPORT CORRESPONDENT: There are countries that are actually seeing their populations decrease. What impact is that having on the United States?

BECKER: Well, it would mean that our population is going to rise relative to the populations of these countries. It already is rising relative to the developed world populations. It may affect somewhat our trade with these countries because the population is a factor that determines trade and so on. The market for some of our goods, our new technologies, for example, lowers the markets for these goods.

EASTABROOK: Some of the population growth that we`ve seen over the last 30 or 40 years has been attributed to immigrants. Are there any down sides to that?

BECKER: On the whole, I`m a pro immigrant person. I think this country has been based on immigration. We still benefit from immigrants who are the more ambitious sorts. I would like to see more of our immigrants coming legally rather than illegally and more of an emphasis now on policies, on getting skilled immigrants who want to come here from engineers, scientists, many other types. We make it difficult for immigrants to come here legally.

EASTABROOK: Much of the U.S. population is concentrated in specific urban areas. Are there burdens placed on those areas?

BECKER: Certainly cities, you know, metropolitan areas have a good fraction of the total population because people want to live in cities and economic productivity is greater in cities. On the other hand, a lot of the very poor -- not all -- but a lot of the very poor are in the inner cities. The city of Chicago, New York, LA and so on. And they`re clearly a burden in the sense that a lot of the Medicaid and other transfer payments to the low-income people are to people who are living in cities.

EASTABROOK: Should businesses in some way be encouraging people to move to less populated areas like, say, North Dakota?

BECKER: Businesses make a calculation. What`s the cost of getting -- of setting up a business including space in say the suburbs? What`s the cost of labor in these places? What kind of quality of labor can you get? Some, you know, isolated areas you can`t get very good labor because there aren`t enough good quality laborers. So businessmen and women are already making those choices. I think they`re making the right choices for the most part. I don`t think we need a policy to say, well, let`s subsidize businesses who locate let`s say out in some rural area. I think that would be an unwise policy for the United States.

EASTABROOK: The Baby boomers are going to be retiring in mass over the next 20 years. Is that going to create any sort of a population gap for the U.S.?

BECKER: The more retired people you have, of course, the more you have to try to finance your retirement income, the medical expenditures which are mainly on older people. That`s what younger people help do. That`s why population growth, that`s one of the advantages of population growth in an economy. It provides you with more younger people who can be taxed on their earnings to finance the retirement income, the medical care given to old people. That`s one of the things that European countries and Japan are so much concerned about now with their low birth rates. They`re not going to have, they do not have enough of these younger people who they can tax at a reasonable rate to finance what they have a more generous system of retirement benefits and health benefits.

EASTABROOK: The U.S. Census Bureau says there are now more single households in the U.S. than married households. What are the economic implications of that?

BECKER: Particularly at the low end you get inadequate education of the children. That means when they get on to the labor market, they`re not well trained enough. We do have a problem in the United States. We have very good, quality labor at the upper and middle end. At the lower end there are some real concerns. I think it`s not only due to single households, of course. It`s due to the nature of schools and so on. But single households and divorced parents, single mother raising children, I think that`s part of the problem and the cause of this.

EASTABROOK: Professor Becker, thank you very much for joining us.

http://www.pbs.org/nbr/site/onair/transcripts/061016c/
http://www.pbs.org/nbr/info/video.html

[prince_waiting]

Originally Posted by HarakoMeshi

We live in hope. I sure hope they will pass the bill. I also hope if such a bill passes it does more than simply expose another bottlekneck in the process. Recall how PERM was going to cut the waiting time by years, and it did it's job, but then we hit retrogression.

For those who are stuck in the green card process for years the SKIL bill provides much needed relief in the form of increased visa numbers, discounting family members towards the visa numbers and exempting foreign students with advanced degrees earned in the US from the visa allocation.

I don't see how this is bad for us. I might be missing something and I would be obliged if you would please explain how this doesn't reduce the effect of retrogression, if it necessarily doesn't eliminate it ?

[prince_waiting]

Originally Posted by TheOmbudsman

Prince_Waiting,

Your optmism is welcome in this time of depression and uncertainty. However, they look more like flawed and naive sentiment to many of us. Are you a core IV member ?

It doesn't matter whether Lou Dobbs owns stocks or not from companies which have business abroad. What you have to analyze is whether the trend of foreign offshoring affects or not the people WHO DO NOT HAVE stocks and vested interest on this:the middle class. Is it true that excessive offshoring, illegal immigration and even unskilled amnesty can hurt the American middle class. Is that true or not ? I will let you watch and figure out. If it is true, then you might not be so certain the SKULL bill will pass.

It seems your position on what Americans consider important is a bit off as well. If you have several American friends, talk to them you will see that no one is buying into the gay marriage thing at this time. Immigration is a true topic concerning lots of Americans. Just watch.

Good luck to us all.

Regards,

Your friendly Ombudsman.

Ombudsman,
I am not discussing about the CIR but only about the SKIL bill. All of the Americans whom I have discussed the SKIL bill with are in FAVOR of letting in skilled immigrants, specially retain those who have advanced degrees from the US.
The politicians concern or the lack of it is clearly manifested in another bill; the minimum wage bill. While the politicians have voted to increase their own salary a number of times over the years, they have not shown any concern towards the middle class when it comes to the minimum wage bill.

[prince_waiting]

Originally Posted by TheOmbudsman

Hello folks,

You say "hara-kiri", but I answer with Masakatsu Agatsu.

There is no such protectionism when you have a steady 1 million+ bodies immigrating *every year* to this country. I support immigration, I am a proud immigrant and I think good people should continue to come to this country. Passing a bill which would open up the gates and import unlimited supply of cheap labor doesn't seem rational to me.

There are many talented people who could help and join this organization, but when we see simply adopt a blind effort without sensible and rational attitude, that scare a substantial number of positive individuals.

Wake up. Democrats are in pretty bad shape too. Virtually, Democrats do not have a solid plan and agenda out there to impress people and take over. If the bad mood from the Foley scandal - a gay senator talking to a boy - goes away in the next few weeks, then Republicans not necessarily will lose main seats. Even if the Dems win, remember that the Senate may be controlled by Republicans and the fight conservative vs liberals goes on. Sorry to tell you the situation doesn't look as simple as you and I would like.

We do not need to get angry and argue about this. Let's just wait for the November elections and talk about that soon.

Regards,

Ombudsman

Thats exactly what I am trying to impress so far in my discussions, the SKIL bill is outside the purview of the liberal v/s conservative fight. Irrespective of the composition of the senate or the house, the bill in its entirety or some provisions are going to pass

[qplearn]

What is sad is that we have opportunists like Professor Borgas, who is himself an immigrant, arguing vocally against immigration. ( I say opportunists because they get handsomely funded for doing such research from various agencies; I don't need to name these agencies.) This particular guy is on the faculty of Harvard; he uses ridiculous arguments and questionable methods to conclude that somehow skilled foreigners who come to the US harm the US economy. His other researched topics (articles) include how the foreign accents of TAs in his university are affecting the quality of education; it clearly shows where all of this is coming from. I had the good fortune of hearing this gentleman speak recently, and guess what... his own accent is so bad that I could not follow some of what he himself was saying

These are clowns in reality (they come here to this forum as well). They claim to be "proud immigrants," and boast about their own skills, and at the same time purposely confuse cheap labor with skilled workers.

[qplearn]

Originally Posted by prince_waiting

Ombudsman,
I am not discussing about the CIR but only about the SKIL bill. All of the Americans whom I have discussed the SKIL bill with are in FAVOR of letting in skilled immigrants, specially retain those who have advanced degrees from the US.
The politicians concern or the lack of it is clearly manifested in another bill; the minimum wage bill. While the politicians have voted to increase their own salary a number of times over the years, they have not shown any concern towards the middle class when it comes to the minimum wage bill.

My friendly advice to you price waiting is to ignore this clown. He will not listen to reason. He is intent on confusing the two issues; in fact, confusing the two issues cleverly is the chief strategy of people like Lou Dobbs etc.