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Retrogression, priority dates and Visa bulletins Issues surrounding the retrogression of the priority dates for the various employment based categories

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2006, 02:31 PM
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Priority Date
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Oct-03
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cr52401 is on a distinguished road
Default Can I have two perms from the same company?

I have one perm approval and also 140 in approved. EB3 PD of DEC 2003. I had my master even before join this company in 2002 and now they are willing to apply EB2 with totally different position and promotion. Can I apply for two perm in the same company? And if I can, what happens to current 140 what are the risks?
Thank you for your help.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:58 PM
Senior Member
Priority Date
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Sep-06
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EB3
I140 Mailed Date
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10/30/2006
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Nigeria
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I-485
I485 Mailed Date
:
06/30/2007
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cr52401
I have one perm approval and also 140 in approved. EB3 PD of DEC 2003. I had my master even before join this company in 2002 and now they are willing to apply EB2 with totally different position and promotion. Can I apply for two perm in the same company? And if I can, what happens to current 140 what are the risks?
Thank you for your help.
I believe you can apply for EB2 in a totally different position with the same employer. Also, you may be able to port your priority date to the new application at the I140 stage.
__________________
----------------------
"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."
- Pat Paulsen
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2006, 10:24 PM
Junior Member
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Aug-05
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Default

Most likely the second perm will be denied automatically. However this will not affect your already approved perm & I140.
I tried to do the same thing, but it was denied the same day. According to the regulation - this would be allowed - but the perm software is not working this way. The lawyers should know about this - I guess - mine did not know.
However - it looks like the perm software will be changed - so it will not deny automatically, at least this was on Matthew Oh's web site:

from http://www.immigration-law.com/

09/23/2006: DOL Policy on Multiple PERM Applications by Same Employer for Same Employee
The current policy is that when the same employer files a second PERM application for the same employee when there is a prior PERM application filed by the same employer for the same employee which is still pending or approved, National Processing Centers automatically deny the second PERM application. DOl intends to change this practice, but until such change is materialized, the DOL will continue its current policy not allowing more than one PERM application certifications for the same employer and same employee in the following manner:
If the employer has already obtained certification of one PERM application and filed a second PERM application, the National Processing Center will continuously deny the second application. Once the second PERM application is denied such, the employer can file a motion to reconsider the denial, but such motion will not be considered unless the employer first files the requiest to withdraw the first certified PERM application and surrender the "original" certified PERM application form, ETA 9089. If the employer has already filed I-140 petition based on the first certified PERM application, since the employer no longer possesses the "original" certified ETA 9089, the withdrawal of the first certified application may be undertaken in order to save the second PERM application vis a motion to reconsider by submitting proof of the employer's withdrawal of pending or approved I-140 petition. Otherwise, the second PERM application will be denied.
If the employer has already obtained certification of one PERM application,but wants to file a second PERM application, the employer is required to withdraw the certified first application and surrender the original certified ETA 9089 before the employer can file the second PERM application. Otherwise, the second PERM application will be denied.
If the employer has filed a PERM application which is still pending, and if the employer wants to file a second PERM application, the employer must file a request for withdrawal before filing a second PERM application. Otherwise, the second application will be denied.
The foregoing policy has no effect on the certified PERM applications whatsoever as the certified labor certification application can not be invalidated unless there was a fraud. The foregoing policy is related to the second PERM application which has yet to be filed or certified. Accordingly, the first application which is either pending or certified will not be affected even if a second application is filed and denied.
The DOL is currently working on changes in the software logic to launch as early as October 2006 which will change the current practice and policy. Under the new system, the machine will not automatically deny the second application. Once the machine detects the multiple filings by the same employer for the same employer, the analysts will review the two applications comparing the two cases, and if necessary, will launch an audit to learn the reasons for second filing. Consequently, the employer will no longer see automatic denial of second application by the decision matrix once the new system is in place.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2006, 11:54 PM
Senior Member
Priority Date
:
Mar-07
Category
:
EB3
I140 Mailed Date
:
04/17/2007
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:
India
Processing Stage
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I-485
I485 Mailed Date
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07/13/2007
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 117
bitu72 is a name known to all bitu72 is a name known to all bitu72 is a name known to all bitu72 is a name known to all bitu72 is a name known to all bitu72 is a name known to all
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xerces
Most likely the second perm will be denied automatically. However this will not affect your already approved perm & I140.
I tried to do the same thing, but it was denied the same day. According to the regulation - this would be allowed - but the perm software is not working this way. The lawyers should know about this - I guess - mine did not know.
However - it looks like the perm software will be changed - so it will not deny automatically, at least this was on Matthew Oh's web site:

from http://www.immigration-law.com/

09/23/2006: DOL Policy on Multiple PERM Applications by Same Employer for Same Employee
The current policy is that when the same employer files a second PERM application for the same employee when there is a prior PERM application filed by the same employer for the same employee which is still pending or approved, National Processing Centers automatically deny the second PERM application. DOl intends to change this practice, but until such change is materialized, the DOL will continue its current policy not allowing more than one PERM application certifications for the same employer and same employee in the following manner:
If the employer has already obtained certification of one PERM application and filed a second PERM application, the National Processing Center will continuously deny the second application. Once the second PERM application is denied such, the employer can file a motion to reconsider the denial, but such motion will not be considered unless the employer first files the requiest to withdraw the first certified PERM application and surrender the "original" certified PERM application form, ETA 9089. If the employer has already filed I-140 petition based on the first certified PERM application, since the employer no longer possesses the "original" certified ETA 9089, the withdrawal of the first certified application may be undertaken in order to save the second PERM application vis a motion to reconsider by submitting proof of the employer's withdrawal of pending or approved I-140 petition. Otherwise, the second PERM application will be denied.
If the employer has already obtained certification of one PERM application,but wants to file a second PERM application, the employer is required to withdraw the certified first application and surrender the original certified ETA 9089 before the employer can file the second PERM application. Otherwise, the second PERM application will be denied.
If the employer has filed a PERM application which is still pending, and if the employer wants to file a second PERM application, the employer must file a request for withdrawal before filing a second PERM application. Otherwise, the second application will be denied.
The foregoing policy has no effect on the certified PERM applications whatsoever as the certified labor certification application can not be invalidated unless there was a fraud. The foregoing policy is related to the second PERM application which has yet to be filed or certified. Accordingly, the first application which is either pending or certified will not be affected even if a second application is filed and denied.
The DOL is currently working on changes in the software logic to launch as early as October 2006 which will change the current practice and policy. Under the new system, the machine will not automatically deny the second application. Once the machine detects the multiple filings by the same employer for the same employer, the analysts will review the two applications comparing the two cases, and if necessary, will launch an audit to learn the reasons for second filing. Consequently, the employer will no longer see automatic denial of second application by the decision matrix once the new system is in place.
but what happens if you have a labor cleared from backlog and then it got stuck in I 140. Now you need a perm labor. will it get cancelled. Can it get tracked back to approved labor from BEC.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2006, 12:31 PM
Senior Member
Priority Date
:
Sep-06
Category
:
EB3
I140 Mailed Date
:
10/30/2006
Chargeability
:
Nigeria
Processing Stage
:
I-485
I485 Mailed Date
:
06/30/2007
Compare
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 703
fromnaija has a reputation beyond repute fromnaija has a reputation beyond repute fromnaija has a reputation beyond repute fromnaija has a reputation beyond repute fromnaija has a reputation beyond repute fromnaija has a reputation beyond repute fromnaija has a reputation beyond repute fromnaija has a reputation beyond repute fromnaija has a reputation beyond repute fromnaija has a reputation beyond repute fromnaija has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitu72
but what happens if you have a labor cleared from backlog and then it got stuck in I 140. Now you need a perm labor. will it get cancelled. Can it get tracked back to approved labor from BEC.

The cancellation of second application applies to PERM only.
__________________
----------------------
"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."
- Pat Paulsen
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2006, 07:41 PM
Member
Priority Date
:
Oct-03
Category
:
EB3
I140 Mailed Date
:
Chargeability
:
Benin
Processing Stage
:
I-485
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 78
cr52401 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xerces
Most likely the second perm will be denied automatically. However this will not affect your already approved perm & I140.
I tried to do the same thing, but it was denied the same day. According to the regulation - this would be allowed - but the perm software is not working this way. The lawyers should know about this - I guess - mine did not know.
However - it looks like the perm software will be changed - so it will not deny automatically, at least this was on Matthew Oh's web site:

from http://www.immigration-law.com/

09/23/2006: DOL Policy on Multiple PERM Applications by Same Employer for Same Employee
The current policy is that when the same employer files a second PERM application for the same employee when there is a prior PERM application filed by the same employer for the same employee which is still pending or approved, National Processing Centers automatically deny the second PERM application. DOl intends to change this practice, but until such change is materialized, the DOL will continue its current policy not allowing more than one PERM application certifications for the same employer and same employee in the following manner:
If the employer has already obtained certification of one PERM application and filed a second PERM application, the National Processing Center will continuously deny the second application. Once the second PERM application is denied such, the employer can file a motion to reconsider the denial, but such motion will not be considered unless the employer first files the requiest to withdraw the first certified PERM application and surrender the "original" certified PERM application form, ETA 9089. If the employer has already filed I-140 petition based on the first certified PERM application, since the employer no longer possesses the "original" certified ETA 9089, the withdrawal of the first certified application may be undertaken in order to save the second PERM application vis a motion to reconsider by submitting proof of the employer's withdrawal of pending or approved I-140 petition. Otherwise, the second PERM application will be denied.
If the employer has already obtained certification of one PERM application,but wants to file a second PERM application, the employer is required to withdraw the certified first application and surrender the original certified ETA 9089 before the employer can file the second PERM application. Otherwise, the second PERM application will be denied.
If the employer has filed a PERM application which is still pending, and if the employer wants to file a second PERM application, the employer must file a request for withdrawal before filing a second PERM application. Otherwise, the second application will be denied.
The foregoing policy has no effect on the certified PERM applications whatsoever as the certified labor certification application can not be invalidated unless there was a fraud. The foregoing policy is related to the second PERM application which has yet to be filed or certified. Accordingly, the first application which is either pending or certified will not be affected even if a second application is filed and denied.
The DOL is currently working on changes in the software logic to launch as early as October 2006 which will change the current practice and policy. Under the new system, the machine will not automatically deny the second application. Once the machine detects the multiple filings by the same employer for the same employer, the analysts will review the two applications comparing the two cases, and if necessary, will launch an audit to learn the reasons for second filing. Consequently, the employer will no longer see automatic denial of second application by the decision matrix once the new system is in place.
Thank you for your help. I know it said October 2006. Do you think it is wise to go ahead and do advertisement and then wait to file?
The ad could take to 60 days.
Thanks.
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