What does emmigration from India mean to you?

[psagarn]

Originally Posted by psagarn

Correction:- it is west and not east of Sindhu

And by that I really meant East. Expecting some nasty, and may be funny, comments on this now.

[dhakaldoo]

I should have taken advise from my husband who is by far the most awesome, just, balanced human being and a genius I know ...

Taking it now!!

[vikki_s]

dhakaldoo and gk_2000, let this not drive you crazy. This thread was created solely because one crazy person did not have the money to go to group therapy. So he created a forum where he could talk out his issues, and have the group help him out.
Dont lose your sanity too now.

psagarn almost sounds like an anti's trojan horse, designed to make us all go nuts

Originally Posted by dhakaldoo

Nop its not just you! it DOES drive one crazy...........

[psagarn]

Originally Posted by vikki_s

dhakaldoo and gk_2000, let this not drive you crazy. This thread was created solely because one crazy person did not have the money to go to group therapy. So he created a forum where he could talk out his issues, and have the group help him out.
Dont lose your sanity too now.

psagarn almost sounds like an anti's trojan horse, designed to make us all go nuts

Thought about replying but then saw all the red dots on ur profile.

[pmpforgc]

Originally Posted by amitjoey

In conjunction with the earlier post-

Our ancient sensibilities were based on true science.

So, science with the ancient Indians- was so advanced at the time in India that the civilization flourished. examples- cities were built with drainage systems- rivers were spared from pollution by engaging polluting activities in the southern side (most rivers in india flow- north-south, so the thought was- if you use the northern fresh water for daily human use, use the southern side for other uses- so by the time the river flows another 100 miles downstream, it is able to dilute itself and purify).
Vastu-shastra- based on science- east was where sun rises- so all morning activities- praying, exercise, were to north east- to take advantage of the rising morning sun-when the sun's rays are most beneficial to the human body.
Ayurveda- ex: Tulsi has great stabilising benefits and gives equilibrium to the body, it cures a lot of infections and tulsi plants also purify the air by removing monoxides. Same with neem to an extent. turmeric is an excellent antibiotic. Ancient indians (scientists-sages) knew this- and created a code of conduct-whereby they tied everything they knew was good for humanity into a simple daily practice ritual and combined it with some ritual associated with god. So, people were told- plant tulsi in your front and back yard- to give it importance, they were told to worship it- so proper attention can be given to its upkeep- fables and stories were written around it. Same is the case with hundreds and thousands of other things.
The vedas -rig veda , ayur-veda and shastras are full of thousands of these simple tricks and scientific discoveries, they are the purest forms of scientific, organic methods to purify, uplift the human body and environment. They are berift of any ritual. They are scientific journals- tested and tried by vedic men and women of the time for the benefit of the entire human race. Anybody that knows sanskrit can read these scientific journals and acknowledge that they were written for the welfare of the entire human race. They belong to the world.

What I see in America of tommorrow, is the Vedic India - In some ways, India (Bharatvarsha) and Indians 5000 years back also had an evolved scientifically proven method to lead a more balanced, environmentally friendly and organic lifestyle.
America is headed towards that- although it is a good 100-200 years back to when we can truly shun plastic from our life and lead a good life- But today- Leading universities in europe and USA are acknowledging the thought and the science that belongs to India.
Eastern thought and vedic science is increasingly being discussed and analyzed.

India has lost its pure civilizational essence- rivers are polluted, massive deforestation and end of organic farming, plastic and junk food everywhere. Urban indians have lost their touch with the civilization. Culture has been left to just wearing Indian dress at times. Indian languages are begining to go extinct- forget sanskrit. In the last 2000 years- creptic corrupt practices and nonsense rituals without understanding the correct science has corroded the Indian mindset. Indians in the last 250 years started questioning their rituals- some of these had crept in through dilution of the correct philosophy and correctly we are shunning these out. Dowry, caste, and other such things need to be shunned out. But in order to look modern, we cannot shun out important other things that are beneficial and still hold true.

In that sense- America and the western world are beggining to question the western lifestyle- more organic farming, more of herbs are being used in daily life and yoga and meditation are gaining respect.
Western thought is engaging with eastern philosophies.

This is really what was great at a time when our ancient ceivilization was really at its peak. In last 30 yrs we had lost most of the good values/ ethics/ family values ( I want to make strong argument about loss of family values as we have gunda raj not only in politics but in family culture too. Any one who can abuse others with out giving regards to others or their opinions is regarded as great in extended families/relations with each other)

We are loosing in education with spread of private institutions as profit center instead of old quality of education. In education we are just looking how many engieers/doctors etc. we are producing. But we dont know that our current engineers are worst then old ITI technicians. Results are given very high to fill seats at private profit centers.

If you can earn money , no matter how, you are regarded great and successfull in the society. There is no shame in society for loosing its values/ morals and ethics. Compring that to western culture, baring at top level, still moral and ethics in day to day life are evident.

We are loosing in agriculture and environment front. Recent years ( In last decade or so) because of peoples movement towards urban life and govt policies ignoring importancce of agriculture and food supply we are most likely to become dependent again to feed our billions populations. With incresing capture of our politicians by the multinationals like monsanto/cargil etc. we will loose ground in agric soon.

No need to talk about environment part as we can feel that when we go there.

We are making lot progress in the Inflated property values (thanks to builders/black money/ nri/ population growth/ industrialization/ politicians hold on permits etc.) Gold prices ( thanks to drowery/ loss of confidence in rupee/ our love for gold etc.) Babas and sadhus, corruption level (no one talks below 1000 crores now ). Luckily our crime crate is not that high looking to population level. We are probably getting good hold in population control lately (because now it has become too costly to raise kids) .

Looks like our sadhus are trying to maintain aryuveda. But still I dont understand how we are growing so many traditional medicine, inspite of loss of forest and agriculture lands. May be some one needs to look what is inside all these costly bottles of judibutties.

Our kids are making excellent progress towards western culture ( which we despise for long) . Valentine dayis celebrated more in India , rave and hukka parties etc have become day to day affair, Cricket has lost its orginal ethics and has become commercial enterprise (harming lot other sports in the country)

Medical treatment for common man is really commercialized. If you can not produce money, you can not enter any hospital , even if you are dying because of accidental cause. You might get even before reaching there, because of our traffic situation and manners, as well as our excellent infrastucture growth in par with population.

I am sure there can be many points added in favour of excellent life of the common man in currently emerging India. I am sure those who are planning for RTI are making a great long term decision.

[vikki_s]

Oh yeah, those red dots are making me lose sleep I see red all the time.
Could you please give me the number of your therapist?

Oh wait, crap, thats right - you dont have one!

dude..get a life - move on, or stay on this thread, and keep entertaining.

Originally Posted by psagarn

Thought about replying but then saw all the red dots on ur profile.

[psagarn]

Originally Posted by vikki_s

Could you please give me the number of your therapist?

What's with the obsession of demeaning people that you hardly know. What does it get you, a fake ego boost? Feel bad for the people who have to be around you.

Originally Posted by vikki_s

Oh wait, crap, thats right - you dont have one!

Yes, I do not have a therapist...coz I don't need one, why are you looking for a therapist? Oh wait, dont bother answering, I get it.

Originally Posted by vikki_s

dude..get a life - move on, or stay on this thread, and keep entertaining.

Glad to be useful to people here even if that means people getting entertained at my expense. Keeps people like you off the street which is a big help to the society. What are you doing other than calling names?

[permfiling]

Originally Posted by pmpforgc

This is really what was great at a time when our ancient ceivilization was really at its peak. In last 30 yrs we had lost most of the good values/ ethics/ family values ( I want to make strong argument about loss of family values as we have gunda raj not only in politics but in family culture too. Any one who can abuse others with out giving regards to others or their opinions is regarded as great in extended families/relations with each other)

We are loosing in education with spread of private institutions as profit center instead of old quality of education. In education we are just looking how many engieers/doctors etc. we are producing. But we dont know that our current engineers are worst then old ITI technicians. Results are given very high to fill seats at private profit centers.

If you can earn money , no matter how, you are regarded great and successfull in the society. There is no shame in society for loosing its values/ morals and ethics. Compring that to western culture, baring at top level, still moral and ethics in day to day life are evident.

We are loosing in agriculture and environment front. Recent years ( In last decade or so) because of peoples movement towards urban life and govt policies ignoring importancce of agriculture and food supply we are most likely to become dependent again to feed our billions populations. With incresing capture of our politicians by the multinationals like monsanto/cargil etc. we will loose ground in agric soon.

No need to talk about environment part as we can feel that when we go there.

We are making lot progress in the Inflated property values (thanks to builders/black money/ nri/ population growth/ industrialization/ politicians hold on permits etc.) Gold prices ( thanks to drowery/ loss of confidence in rupee/ our love for gold etc.) Babas and sadhus, corruption level (no one talks below 1000 crores now ). Luckily our crime crate is not that high looking to population level. We are probably getting good hold in population control lately (because now it has become too costly to raise kids) .

Looks like our sadhus are trying to maintain aryuveda. But still I dont understand how we are growing so many traditional medicine, inspite of loss of forest and agriculture lands. May be some one needs to look what is inside all these costly bottles of judibutties.

Our kids are making excellent progress towards western culture ( which we despise for long) . Valentine dayis celebrated more in India , rave and hukka parties etc have become day to day affair, Cricket has lost its orginal ethics and has become commercial enterprise (harming lot other sports in the country)

Medical treatment for common man is really commercialized. If you can not produce money, you can not enter any hospital , even if you are dying because of accidental cause. You might get even before reaching there, because of our traffic situation and manners, as well as our excellent infrastucture growth in par with population.

I am sure there can be many points added in favour of excellent life of the common man in currently emerging India. I am sure those who are planning for RTI are making a great long term decision.

All the above points about india are great but we never united to fight off all the invaders except for few kings. The basic right and necessity of all human beings is to defend themselves but ppl at that time never did as the kings never agreed to a common thing. This is what india should learn from western civilizations is to work as a team which would have preserved all the great things came out of indus civilization...who knows india might have invented many things.

[gk_2000]

Originally Posted by permfiling

All the above points about india are great but we never united to fight off all the invaders except for few kings. The basic right and necessity of all human beings is to defend themselves but ppl at that time never did as the kings never agreed to a common thing. This is what india should learn from western civilizations is to work as a team which would have preserved all the great things came out of indus civilization...who knows india might have invented many things.

This is what happens when kings put each other on ignore ..

[mikoo]

All right ,
Point #1 - I request - dhakaldoo and gk_2000-- to not write in this thread if they do not have anything constructive to add to the FIRST ORIGINAL POST- Read the first post of this thread again ,if you don't know what discussion is going on.

Point # 2- I have extensive research/medical background- (I know a thing or two about how modern science works- formation of a hypothesis and experiments to test that hypothesis etc etc............

Old cultures had passed on many important observational discoveries by word of mouth to their younger generations - Indian culture is/was one of them.

That is the reason modern scientists are always 'confirming' the age old folklore or observational facts which our/their ancesters have collected over thousands of years.

Not all of them are correct but most are being confirmed correct as they have stood the test of time(in other words - people would not have followed them over thousands of years if they would have been harmful/incorrect.)

I humbly welcome more thoughts ,without anyone getting too arrogant and pushing their views as the 'holy truth'.

Remember -Truth is always grey -never black or white - or as our statisticians like to say - follows the the bell curve - lies in the middle.

signed -Global citizen -but proud to be indian.

[gk_2000]

Originally Posted by mikoo

All right ,
Point #1 - I request - dhakaldoo and gk_2000-- to not write in this thread if they do not have anything constructive to add to the FIRST ORIGINAL POST- Read the first post of this thread again ,if you don't know what discussion is going on.

Point # 2- I have extensive research/medical background- (I know a thing or two about how modern science works- formation of a hypothesis and experiments to test that hypothesis etc etc............

Old cultures had passed on many important observational discoveries by word of mouth to their younger generations - Indian culture is/was one of them.

That is the reason modern scientists are always 'confirming' the age old folklore or observational facts which our/their ancesters have collected over thousands of years.

Not all of them are correct but most are being confirmed correct as they have stood the test of time(in other words - people would not have followed them over thousands of years if they would have been harmful/incorrect.)

I humbly welcome more thoughts ,without anyone getting too arrogant and pushing their views as the 'holy truth'.

Remember -Truth is always grey -never black or white - or as our statisticians like to say - follows the the bell curve - lies in the middle.

signed -Global citizen -but proud to be indian.

Mr. Garfield: I object to your below statement:

"... most are being confirmed correct as they have stood the test of time..."

Is this part of the scientific process you mention?

And FYI, you will find many posts from me that is relevant -- but after the OP chose to put me on ignore he ended the possibility of "meaningful" discussion.
If you want meaningful discussion you need to think with mind, not with sheer emotion. And by reacting in the way he did he is showing he is not mature enough to be discussing!

[dhakaldoo]

Originally Posted by mikoo

All right ,
Point #1 - I request - dhakaldoo and gk_2000-- to not write in this thread if they do not have anything constructive to add to the FIRST ORIGINAL POST- Read the first post of this thread again ,if you don't know what discussion is going on.

signed -Global citizen -but proud to be indian.

Check out my first post and second. I was sincere untill mr. you know who started how every body else is a fool and what he says is only correct.
If somebody is not open to listening to other side he should not simply open a thread under the name of "Discussion"

And by constructive if you mean agreeing to what ever he says, that is ridiculous.


Any way..
I left the conversation not because I dont have more to add to it or am dumb struck by his brilliant reply to my post, but because I have seen his statements to each line of mine which shows how he jumps to conclusions about my lack of knowledge or inability to understand sarcasm giving me a lesson on science and history.

It is amusing that you guys do not find his replies full of arrogance and drawn baseless conclusions about how dumb and idiot other's are.

[psagarn]

Originally Posted by gk_2000

And FYI, you will find many posts from me that is relevant -- but after the OP chose to put me on ignore he ended the possibility of "meaningful" discussion.
If you want meaningful discussion you need to think with mind, not with sheer emotion. And by reacting in the way he did he is showing he is not mature enough to be discussing!

After posting the following as the very first reply to this thread, how can one not form an opinion that nothing good is going to come from this guy.

Originally Posted by gk_2000

Most of you guys seem to be still inside their egg-shells.....Have some self-respect.
What I am saying is, you have a lens stitched to your eyebrow by being in India too long.

[psagarn]

Originally Posted by dhakaldoo

Check out my first post and second. I was sincere untill mr. you know who started how every body else is a fool and what he says is only correct.
If somebody is not open to listening to other side he should not simply open a thread under the name of "Discussion"

Where did I say that everyone or even you are a fool? "Failing to understand" does not mean that you are a fool. Here is what I replied to your first post and frankly it puts more blame on myself than anyone else for people being not able to understand the true intent of this post.

Originally Posted by psagarn

Thanks for the sincere post but like many others you fail to understand the true meaning of culture. Sadly, I am tired of my attempts at explaining it and frankly I suck at it.....that is why there are still people here who don't understand the true intent of this post. Appreciate you taking time to post though.

And once you formed an opinion about me, it was going to be end up the way it did.

Originally Posted by dhakaldoo

And by constructive if you mean agreeing to what ever he says, that is ridiculous.

Check my replies to other posts that were not abusive, like those from Amitjoey and RKG. I really asked for more input even though they too criticized the current situation in India. Ever thought that you could be wrong?

Originally Posted by dhakaldoo

Any way..
I left the conversation not because I dont have more to add to it or am dumb struck by his brilliant reply to my post, but because I have seen his statements to each line of mine which shows how he jumps to conclusions about my lack of knowledge or inability to understand sarcasm giving me a lesson on science and history.

You come in with a totally biased perception and even after providing you solid scientific evidence, your position that "Indian culture and its ancient wisdom is crap" could not be changed. You say, wikipedia and my link to it for X-RAY machine is crap, did you even bother googling about the use of X-RAY machines in shoe stores in 30s and 40s? IT IS A FACT THAT THESE MACHINES WERE IN USE IN THOSE STORES, you believing it or not does not matter. And how does my replying to each line of your post leads you to the conclusion that I "jump to conclusions ......"? Pardon my lack of ability to put 2 and 2 together.

Originally Posted by dhakaldoo

It is amusing that you guys do not find his replies full of arrogance and drawn baseless conclusions about how dumb and idiot other's are.

Again, please provide examples where I was arrogant before you guys started it.

[rkg000]

If we believe in theory of relativity, then the excercise of proving one right or wrong becomes futile. But we do noetheless because the idea of proving others wrong and oneself right is too tempting to pass by. And there is no denying that this has happened on both sides of the argument on this thread. And do we really want to get into "You started first. No! you started first" .

The first few pages were very informative, and both sides made decent arguments, and since then it has been downhill, why? Becuase everybody ran out of valid arguments?