Filing a case against DOL - All affected, please join and support this

[pns27]

Originally Posted by Libra

This is the most stupid thing i ever heard. sorry if i offended you by saying this, but i myself wish you should be first in the line than me. We(most of us whose pd is later than yours and most of you guys) wish sincerely that you people should get GC before we get. No one opposing your cause, but we are asking to think one more time whether you'll get any benifit from this. IF YOU THINK "YES" PLEASE GO AHEAD, but dont curse or use any kind of bad words, not appreciated.

Very few members of IV are stucked at backlog, so what i suggest is talk to core personally about your cases, ask them to help you guys in finding out what happened to your cases, if a person with pd 2005 got approved and 2004 is stuck means there might be some problem with the case filing, if not yours, your attorney might have done some mistake or so. so i personally think you should talk to core and find a way to solve this problem.

Hi Libra,
Your post is good overall, However I dont think you know how stuff works. I dont think you have any clue how people got stuck in BEC.

You said ".. if a person with pd 2005 got approved and 2004 is stuck means there might be some problem with the case filing, if not yours.." for you information, in almost all cases, BEC cases are not even worked. In your example 2004 cases are not even worked on and 2005 cases are approved.

So the cases in BEC are not even worked on, hope you understand that there is nothing wring with the applications of people got stuck in BEC and that not the reason why they are in BEC.

[Libra]

I myself stucked for 1&1/2 yrs, even though RIR.

Originally Posted by pns27

Hi Libra,
Your post is good overall, However I dont think you know how stuff works. I dont think you have any clue how people got stuck in BEC.

You said ".. if a person with pd 2005 got approved and 2004 is stuck means there might be some problem with the case filing, if not yours.." for you information, in almost all cases, BEC cases are not even worked. In your example 2004 cases are not even worked on and 2005 cases are approved.

So the cases in BEC are not even worked on, hope you understand that there is nothing wring with the applications of people got stuck in BEC and that not the reason why they are in BEC.

[GCBy3000]

I agree with what you say. Yes, backlogged victims need some justice at this moment, otherwise there it is morally not good for everyone.

1. Why don't we petition first before thinking of Lawsuit. We from IV should write a letter to USCIS stating the injustice brought to the backlogged victims and how it is mentally affecting them etc. We should ask USCIS to consider these things and come up with a solution for backlogged victims instead of threatening DOS and others with Lawsuit. Since we are at their mercy, there is nothing wrong in keeping them higher up and at the same time getting what we want.

2. If the petition did not work out, then we can think about some suit. Still I don't agree with any suit as it is not going to bring justice. By the time the suit clears, you will have your GC in hand.

[risker]

Hi All,

Thank you for the overwhelming response. I did skim through the responses and agree with most of the suggestions/comments if not all.

Someone had brought the issue of FIFO and if there is anything in the law that states that FIFO has to be followed. I am not a law expert myself and cannot comment on if there is any such law. But what I am basing is more on the everyday commensense behaviour that all we humans follow for any queue. FIFO is the predominant thing being done for any queue and that will be the most resonable way to process be it a bunch of applicantions waiting on a queue or to service a number of people waiting on a queue in a bank or post office or whereever it might be. That is the fair, unbiased and non-preferential way of doing things. Isn't it?

I want to make sure to convey the point that I first of all wanted to bring this issue to everyone's attention. May be my message was worded strongly, but doesn't mean that I am not flexible.

I thought suing DOL is one of the options. Of course if there are other viable alternatives that will be less demanding, less expensive and will take a more non-confronting approach but still could have an equal impact in terms of resolving the issue amicably then I am all for it. But then the obvious question is what are the other equally good options? Someone mentioned about a petition. So what is a petition and how do we do it? Also mentioned was writing letters to congressmen etc. So who do we contact and how? Please, please anyone having the information please share.

One more thing is that I am all for a dialog with IV core members and their guidance for this. Since I started this thread doesn't mean that I wanted to sideline IVs, but this is the only way I thought I could communicate to the IV platform about the agony of this issue and how people have been affected by this. So I am all for talking with IV core members on this. But please let me know how I could do that?

So please let us start acting now: The list of next possible steps (in no particular order) are:

- Decide if there are viable alternatives to a lawsuit that is more non-confronting and first try them if possible
- Get the support of IV core team for this
- If no other alternatives are available then consider filing a case. Consult an attorney for this
- Raise more awareness about this and get allt he support we can
- Raise some money towards this cause


So please please provide more inputs so that we could start making some real progress. Thanks!!

[risker]

Originally Posted by GCBy3000

I agree with what you say. Yes, backlogged victims need some justice at this moment, otherwise there it is morally not good for everyone.

1. Why don't we petition first before thinking of Lawsuit. We from IV should write a letter to USCIS stating the injustice brought to the backlogged victims and how it is mentally affecting them etc. We should ask USCIS to consider these things and come up with a solution for backlogged victims instead of threatening DOS and others with Lawsuit. Since we are at their mercy, there is nothing wrong in keeping them higher up and at the same time getting what we want.

2. If the petition did not work out, then we can think about some suit. Still I don't agree with any suit as it is not going to bring justice. By the time the suit clears, you will have your GC in hand.

Thanks for your inputs. Please also read my previous message. If there is a less non-confronting approach that is equally good in bringing this to the attention any authorigy and resolving it amicably we should be all for it.

- So can IV help us by filing a petition/letter to DOL/UCIS or the other relevant authority towards this cause...basically explaining the plight of the affected people and how they have been affected by DOL not doing FIFO processing of the labor applications in the traditional process.
IV core team, please provide us some guidance and please help us here.

- I do agree if the petition doesn't work out then we can think on the law suit. OR we can explore that option and start getting the details of the process parallely so that we have all the information in hand. But if a petition isn't possible (which I doubt) then we should be able to swiftly act on the lawsuit.

[justice4all]

Here I want to make clear, FIFO for taking labor applications and sending ad instructions not for approving. I know depending on compilcation of cases(I think), some cases with PD 2005 get approved fast and cases with PD 2003 are taking longer. I dont know why all these mess in DOL, for taking the labor applications and sending ad instructions.

[risker]

Originally Posted by justice4all

Here I want to make clear, FIFO for taking labor applications and sending ad instructions not for approving. I know depending on compilcation of cases(I think), some cases with PD 2005 get approved fast and cases with PD 2003 are taking longer. I dont know why all these mess in DOL, for taking the labor applications and sending ad instructions.

No, I don't think it has anything to do with complication of cases. I know of the two different employees with the same employer with similar jobs/descriptions, one with PD 2005 approved and another with PD 2003 whose application hasn't even been taken for processing. So the behavior of the BEC just seems to be random and there seems to be no particular logic. Complication of the cases is definitely not one of the reasons as far as I know.

[ssa]

Please don't start shouting at me for being "anti-BEC-victims", because I'm not. But just consider this. Even if you are able to turn mountains around and get a suit filed against DOL before Sept 2007 they will be be able to get it thrown out or at least get a stay simply by stating they already have a public commitment to clearing all the cases by Sept 2007 so it will be non issue in just couple of months. You will not have strong case till Sept 2007 is actually passed and they have not delivered on the commitment. Sept 2007 is just two months away. Use these months to do your ground work like finding and mobilizing BEC victims etc. and go for the actual action only after Sept 2007 dead line has passed. This way if they really deliver on their promise you would save yourself lot of money and trouble.
Just my 2 cents. Your grievances are 100% genuine and I do feel for you. Hopefully they will clear this mess soon.

[satyasaich]

What ever you have pointed out is very valid and no doubt, shows the injustice. However, considering the present situation following are my thoughts.

1. Let's call for an action item for all those IV members whose LCs are still in BECs
2. Try to present the case to USCIS in a truly meaningful way about the those individuals still waiting for LC approvals
3. Try to get an exception so that they can file 140+485 even after Aug17th.
(atleast this is not an impossible thing to USCIS to accept just few thousand when compared to hundreds of thousands)

I strongly believe in IV from day 1 and quickly take an action item first of all to come up with list of the individuals (as many as possible).
Then, let's approach USCIS (i don't know how to do it at this time, but open this for some good ideas) to get an exception for those cases still to come out of BECs

I know so many of us have already filed for 485 or busy to file before Aug17th, but PLEASE LET'S DO SOMETHING.
Personally even though i applied for 485, i'm all for it and justice MUST BE DONE

Originally Posted by risker

Subject: Injustice for people with priority dates in '02, '03, '04 etc. who are still waiting for their labor certs to be processed using the traditional process - we want to file a case against DOL's lethargy - Let us join together and file a case against DOL and bring justice to this unjustified system.

The manner in which the backlog reduction center have been processing the
labor certs seems to be very unfair for people like me and others who have been affected. I know of cases with priority dates as late as 2005 that have gone through the traditional process and have been approved already. And there are cases like mine and others with much earlier priority dates that haven't been done. This is very unfair and unjustified. It is like we have been standing in the queue for several hours and a person who came much later than me just sneaked into the queue and got his service done while I am still waiting for my turn. Also the fact that now the UCIS has made the filing of I-485 current adds more insult to the injury that I and others in my position have endured.

The fact that the I-485 was made current and then withdrawn was made a big deal and people wanted to file cases, whereas the plight of people like me who are still waiting for the labor cert to be cleared has been totally
ignored, inspite of the fact that people who applied for labor much later
have been approved through the traditional process.

We want to file a case ASAP with the DOL or other relevant
authority regarding this issue and the unfair way of the process that we
have been subjected to. So can all those folks who have been affected by this join and voice your support? We shoud put up this fight because this is in no way justified. Why would it be?

The next steps should be:

- Get all of the support we need from all affected folks ASAP
- Get in touch with a lawyer who can help us to prepare the case
- File the case in a court against DOL
- Make sure we get justice

Please join and show your support. Please help!!!

[baboo1976]

Risker,
I agree with you 100%
If we have filed our cases earlier - We have every right according to me to get our cases approved before others.. If they leave status current till everyone labors are approved (According to backlog center Sep 30 07) - That would resolve the issue/confusion.
If a clause exisits for us mentioning our 140/485 would be accepted next month would resolve the issue - any thoughts!!!
Regards
Baboo..



P.S: Others whose cases are current - I ' am happy for you too..

[delhirocks]

I agree with you, not fair for someone to wait for so long.

But practically speaking, since most of the BEC cases are now aprooved, and since those folks have a much earlier PD, most of them have a short wait ahead of them for GC. I doubt at this late stage in the game anybody would want to go through an ordeal of a long lasting lawsuit. You might not get a lot of support.

Originally Posted by risker

I understand that it might be late and filing a case might be expensive etc. But how come people like murthy.com etc. were willing to fight the sudden revoking of I-485 by UCIS along with AILF? It will only be hypocritical to consider that as injustice and this as not. I don't think filing a case is going to bring the whole process to a halt. The BEC will still continue to process the cases while this case goes on.

We have to do away with all those naysayers and all those IFs and BUTs. I don't belive in it.

We know we have a justified case here and it is a simple matter of whether we are willing to fight.

Why can't we get the support of AILF for this or other law firms? I know there are enough people who have been affected to justify that.

[ksircar]

risker,

Once again I urge you to contact IV core ASAP. To start with send PM, ask for their contact number and then discuss the problem. Don't spend too much time on this forum, time is limited. Once you explain the problem to them they may advise you what should be the best course of action. The core may not be directly involved, but at least they may guide you in the right direction.

Regards.

[mallikonnet]

Originally Posted by risker

Thanks for your inputs. Please also read my previous message. If there is a less non-confronting approach that is equally good in bringing this to the attention any authorigy and resolving it amicably we should be all for it.

- So can IV help us by filing a petition/letter to DOL/UCIS or the other relevant authority towards this cause...basically explaining the plight of the affected people and how they have been affected by DOL not doing FIFO processing of the labor applications in the traditional process.
IV core team, please provide us some guidance and please help us here.

- I do agree if the petition doesn't work out then we can think on the law suit. OR we can explore that option and start getting the details of the process parallely so that we have all the information in hand. But if a petition isn't possible (which I doubt) then we should be able to swiftly act on the lawsuit.

HI RISKER I GOT FEW QUESTIONS. THESE QUESTIONS MAY WELL BE ASKED BY DEFENDATS(DOL) WHEN YOU FILE LAWSUIT.

1. WHY DIDNT YOU UPDATE TO PERM LABOR WHILE RETAINING PRIORITY DT
2. DID YOU CONSIDER RIR AND REGUALR CASES DIFFERENCES WHEN ARE SUEING FOR FIFO
3. DID YOU FIND PEOPLE FROM THE SAME COMPANY WITH DIFFERENT FILING DATES APPOVED NEW AHEAD OF OLD FILING DATE( THIS WOULD GIVE YOU A STRONG REASONING WHEN YOU WANT TO SUE). COMPANYS PROFILE CAN INFLUENCE A LOT ON DECISION MAKING EX.. MICROSOFT VS DESI COMPANY.
4. HOW MANY CASES YOU HAVE STUDIED FOR VIOLATION FIFO. COLLECT DATA FROM BEC APPROVED PEOPLE AND THE PEOPLE STILL STUCK THERE.



I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE THE INJUSTICE DONE BY DOL. HEY BUT BEFORE JUMPING THE GUN GET YOUR AMMUNITION READY THEN CONTACT CORE AND THEN SEE FROM THERE.....


GOOD LUCK

[imv116]

If you want to file law suite, you should have done that long back.

You should have done it when PERM was brought into process. Also, there is nothing said in PERM process that people should not re-file.

But blaming the process just because every one is made current is wrong. If some one knew the know-how, and was in hands of a good employer, even people who came in 2007 are ready for 485.

The whole immigration system is messed up. It is sad to see people stuck in BEC suffer, but you all had every chance to re-apply and you have every right to be in front of perm people, so is it goes when USCIS is assigning numbers.

Also as posted by members, if all cases would be cleared by 2007 Sep, than you all have high possibility to be in the next VB, which could only be few months away. Also they might bring speed 140 back.

-imv116

[jasmin45]

Originally Posted by risker

I understand that it might be late and filing a case might be expensive etc. But how come people like murthy.com etc. were willing to fight the sudden revoking of I-485 by UCIS along with AILF? It will only be hypocritical to consider that as injustice and this as not. I don't think filing a case is going to bring the whole process to a halt. The BEC will still continue to process the cases while this case goes on.

We have to do away with all those naysayers and all those IFs and BUTs. I don't belive in it.

We know we have a justified case here and it is a simple matter of whether we are willing to fight.

Why can't we get the support of AILF for this or other law firms? I know there are enough people who have been affected to justify that.

Nothing against you guys.. we totally understand your pain.. Labor is an application by your employer.. and they will have to be the paintiff not one of us as an individual. Where as 485 is an application by Individual for AOS. So Individual can be a paintiff and thats the reason why I believe ALIF was planning to move forward with class action..had uscis not reversed their decision.

I myself had a PD of 02 but my employer decided to drop classic labor to file again using PERM in 05.