H4 my not qualify for Tax Rebate Checks in Economic Stimulus Package

[yabadaba]

Originally Posted by same_old_guy

Yes, it is open forum, but that does not mean you can NOT say pretty anything to anyone. We dont throw crap at other here. Lets not loose our dignity as a group.
However, you still did not mention why you think it's fair. All you did was gloating about how your great was your wife's determination and how hard she work to get an H1 and so forth. Now you are wondering how you got those red dots !

I cant debate with a person that cannot read and understand my post.

READ THIS for complete overview of why I think its fair

"You are right...I should have clarified that in my first post itself. Only people who pay taxes should get a rebate. No rebate for children also (full disclosure...I have a kid).

But if thats not the case, then I want the minimal impact from the "freeloaders" (eb3_nepa's words not mine)...and if that means no ITIN H4 holders get a rebate, so be it.

Plus at the risk of more red dots and really aggravating many H4 holders, American citizen spouses may have worked at some point in their lives and paid taxes to the IRS at some point in their lives, H4s have not paid a single cent. I know I ll also get a lot of examples of american citizen spouses that have never worked a single day in their lives, but as I have consistently said from my the begining, its not a universally fair process, but its fair in my view."

[whattodo]

Originally Posted by yabadaba

keep in mind again the basic point of this debate H4s with ITIN will not get rebate, I have no problems with H4s with SSN getting the rebate

I would love to learn how the above sentence makes any sense. If that does not make sense to anyone, can we stop talking non-sense in the forum?

[whitecollarslave]

Everybody has a right to their opinion, including opinions about other people's opinion, whether we agree or not. I don't agree to all the arguments, but I do appreciate the different viewpoints.

Anyway, thats not the reason why we are all over these forums. We want to bring about reform for EB immigration and bring awareness about problems in legal immigration. We must not allow the lawmakers and the media to be confused between legal and illegal immigration.

That said, did you write a letter to the President?
Did you ask your friends, colleagues to write a letter?
Did you contact your immigration lawyer to see if they support the campaign?
For those who went to school here, did you contact your professors?
Did you contact your lawmakers?
Did you vote for the LEGAL immigration related questions for today's Presidential debate?
If you have done all of the above, can you find other, more creative ways to get more support, ways to get more letters?

And, if you have exhausted all of the above options, think of ways in which lawmakers will start distinguishing between legal and illegal immigration and before passing, or even proposing any regulation, they will pause and think to ensure it does not harm legal immigrants.

... now give me back my green dots

[gc28262]

yabadaba does not have any issue with paying Social Security taxes and Medicare while on H1B. He thinks it is fair. But so annoyed about dependents of non-immigrants getting tax rebate. What a sense of fairness !

What about non-working dependents and children of citizens ? How are they eligible to receive tax rebates going by the same logic ?

[yabadaba]

Originally Posted by whattodo

I would love to learn how the above sentence makes any sense. If that does not make sense to anyone, can we stop talking non-sense in the forum?

Are u sure u r a highly skilled immigrant?

a person on h4 can have a ssn (Social Security Number) under the following conditions

1. EAD holder (that means I-485 was filed)
2. Previous H1 (working) now H4 (not working)
3. Previous F1 (student) undergrad or grad -> used cpt or opt to work -> now H4 holder
4. Previous L2 now H4 (L2s can get EAD, thereby SSN)


That basically leaves people whose spouses came directly on H4 in the last few months and/or people who did not apply for 485 in july.

[GCwaitforever]

We are moving away from looking for a solution to the problem by quarreling among each other. I sent e-mail to Senate Majority Leader Reid. Please write to as many favaroble Senators as you can.

****************************************
Dear Senator Reid,

I am working on H-1B VISA in USA. I have been in this country for about 11 years. My Greencard petition is under processing with USCIS.

I am writing about the Economy stimulus plan under discussion in Senate. According to Fox News, there is talk of excluding rebates for people who file income taxes with ITIN in the pretext that they are illegal immigrants. This is not true. There are many legal immigrants like my spouse who was on H4 VISA and hence could not work according to the law in this country. She had to do with ITIN and she filed taxes jointly with me. Economic hardship is same for people withSSN or ITIN. This rebate exclusion for ITIN holders baffles me. I request you to oppose anti-immigrant stance of some of fellow senators and not allow rebate exclusion solely based on someone having an ITIN number.

Thank you for your time reading this.
********************************************

[nixstor]

There are quite a good few scenarios how a current H-4 visa holder can have a SSN. YB did point out some. How ever, the crux of the issue is

"Why should the H-4 visa holders or any visa category (B-1/B-2) that is not eligible for work authorization and there by who do not have eligibility for SSN either by choice or by law forced out of the rebate process in the name of illegals?"

If congress really wants to fix it, they can easily say that the rebate checks can be processed for dependents who have a ITIN and their spouse happens to have a SSN. It might not be that easy for IRS to implement it though.

IRS do not have access to the legal/illegal part of people's lives and irrespective of the legal/illegal status, resident alien term applies to both legals and illegals. Thats why the axe falls on every one across the board to make the implementation easy. But wait a sec, Didn't we read all along that two thirds of illegals pay taxes every year using the ITIN. Do I need to say more about what I am thinking?

[nb_des]

Originally Posted by yabadaba

That basically leaves people whose spouses came directly on H4 in the last few months and/or people who did not apply for 485 in july.

Why do think those who missed the boat in July are not worthy to recieve tax rebates. May be that you are lucky that your wife managed to get H1 even before you filed 485 but that does not mean other H4 spouses do not try or don't want to work. I know my wife tried but she managed to get job only after EAD and now she has an excellent job.

Also not everyone was lucky to file 485 in july. I personally know a friend who is not new to this country and he could not file because desi employer refused at the last minute. His wife is CPA and just could not get a job due to H4 status.

Your argument that spouses that are still on H4 are either new to this country or do not want to work is far from true.

[eb3_nepa]

Originally Posted by yabadaba

I am really enjoying this discussion..its been a while since I have been in the minority expressing my viewpoint.

coming back to eb3_nepa's post

keep in mind again the basic point of this debate H4s with ITIN will not get rebate, I have no problems with H4s with SSN getting the rebate

1. ur right about circumstances changing. but circumstances change over a period of time. I was again reffering back to your point of spouses traumatized about not being able to work and I was just pointing out a very commonplace example of people not "following their dreams" (thats what many of these spouses claim) when push comes to shove. If you are that traumatized then at least work on a part time basis when you have the opportunity.

2. as I said before this is about taxes, not immigrant rights. I am totally with IVs goal of H4s working like L2s..when u say "is one thing to get unfair treatment from the system n the government and another to hear an opinion like yours from a fellow immigrant," it implied that as a immigrant I am not allowed to have a separate opinion in terms of tax rebates, from the rest of the immigrant community. That is uncalled for and also leads to herd mentality, where you are either with us or against us.

Yabadaba, i have NO issues againt your point about people who dont work get no tax rebates. AS LONG AS IT APPLIES TO CITIZENS AND IMMIGRANTS ALIKE. If it does not, then contrary to what you may believe, it IS an issue of immigrant rights and not about taxes anymore.

About immigrant right, yes it HAS TO BE a herd mentality. Remember United we stand, Divided we fall. So yes, we HAVE to stand together all legal immigrants alike.

Now about your point regarding SSN v/s ITIN Remember one thing:
1) Not all H4s that get an EAD and an SSN will work.
2) Not all H4s have been able to apply in the July 2nd rush inspite of being stuck for several years due to attorney goof-ups, labour certification problems, I-140 issues and various other factors.
3) Not all H4s are eligible for applying for H1Bs as not all jobs are conducive to H1Bs
4) Because of the H1B shortage, not everyone that applies for an H1 gets it.

So in short, just coz someone has an SSN does not mean that they have worked hence paid taxes. The other point here is that you CANNOT fault an immigrant for not paying taxes if they are NOT allowed to work by the LAWS of the nation

If you still think that this issue is not one of immigrant rights, then more power to you.

[fromnaija]

As far as I am concerned my spouse and I are one when it comes to filing taxes as we are joint filers. In fact when it comes to properties we own everything in common. The fact that she does not work or does not have SSN but uses ITIN for tax filing purposes does not detract from the fact that she contributes to the family income (at least by moral support).
So, I don't understand all these arguments except of course you guys think it's your income and not the family income that is taxed!

[NKR]

[ thanks guys for the red dots and your flattering comments. Shows that a person cannot have an alternate point of view with regards to taxes. As I said before to eb3_nepa, with regards to taxes, its my view and mine alone. I never said it was universally fair, I just said its fair for me. ]

[ then u need to get a thicker skin. its an open forum with opinions flying back and forth....its nothing to do with immigrants rights. its to do with taxes...i m sorry if some of the spouses have been left out in this process, but again I feel that its fair. end of story.]


Yabadaba..

Your first post above contradicts your second post below it. Now you can go back to your yada yada...

[whattodo]

yabadaba, I guess instead of showing your knowledge of immigration laws, you can show some common sense. I am not asking for ways a H4 can get SSN. For statement did not make any sense to me because that tried to discriminate between H4 with SSN and H4 without SSN. If H4 with SSN gets tax rebate but not H4 without SSN, how is that fair using any logic?

Originally Posted by yabadaba

Are u sure u r a highly skilled immigrant?

a person on h4 can have a ssn (Social Security Number) under the following conditions

1. EAD holder (that means I-485 was filed)
2. Previous H1 (working) now H4 (not working)
3. Previous F1 (student) undergrad or grad -> used cpt or opt to work -> now H4 holder
4. Previous L2 now H4 (L2s can get EAD, thereby SSN)


That basically leaves people whose spouses came directly on H4 in the last few months and/or people who did not apply for 485 in july.

[NKR]

[ thanks guys for the red dots and your flattering comments. Shows that a person cannot have an alternate point of view with regards to taxes. As I said before to eb3_nepa, with regards to taxes, its my view and mine alone. I never said it was universally fair, I just said its fair for me. ]

[ then u need to get a thicker skin. its an open forum with opinions flying back and forth....its nothing to do with immigrants rights. its to do with taxes...i m sorry if some of the spouses have been left out in this process, but again I feel that its fair. end of story.]


Yabadaba..

Your first post above contradicts your second post below it. Now you can go back to your yada yada...

[vrkgali]

Originally Posted by yabadaba

Are u sure u r a highly skilled immigrant?

a person on h4 can have a ssn (Social Security Number) under the following conditions

1. EAD holder (that means I-485 was filed)
2. Previous H1 (working) now H4 (not working)
3. Previous F1 (student) undergrad or grad -> used cpt or opt to work -> now H4 holder
4. Previous L2 now H4 (L2s can get EAD, thereby SSN)


That basically leaves people whose spouses came directly on H4 in the last few months and/or people who did not apply for 485 in july.

So what about children who are here for the past ten years and on h4 , paying lots of money for their education through their dads pocket?

they cannot get ssn.their dad is paying taxes for them also?

one thing you better undersatnd is , either it is double income or single income , a person pays tax for his whole family.not as an individual.when he pays tax for his family , why cant he get refund for the family.

how you want to justify only spouse who got SSN get refund and children who are not able to get ssn?

[waitnwatch]

You missed another group - J2's who have worked and have SSN and have converted to H4 and so cannot work but still retain the SSN.

Any way I have been in this country for 12 years - still on H1 and my spouse is on H4 (no EAD etc.). Luckily my spouse has an SSN as I was a J1 student. I was wondering whether my spouse would deserve a share of the refund if I were originally on an F1 and my spouse would only have got an ITIN instead of an SSN.

What's your thought on a case such as the above?

Just one point regarding this whole debate - The philosophy of most taxation system (including that of the US) is to provide some measure of equalization between the rich and poor. So if income tax is filed jointly the income is treated as a "family income" and there is no distinction between both spouses working and one spouse working. Also a person have 10 children (an extreme example) will get a big exemption. Also income tax laws in any country are designed to tax income irrespective of whether the source of income or the person is illegal under other law (criminal law or immigration law as opposed to tax law). Therefore if everything comes down to a tax rebate everyone should be eligible both as a matter of law as well as a matter of policy.

Therefore the ITIN vs SSN is a red-herring. This ITIN/SSN divide for LEGAL immigrants was created circa 1996. Earlier every H4, F2 etc. was provided with an SSN. Of course illegal immigrants still had to get an ITIN. Therefore as you can see that H4's with ITIN is but collateral damage.

It's good to have an opinion ---it's even better if you can explain your stand with general arguments without too many qualifiers and exceptions.

GOOD luck yabadaba -

Originally Posted by yabadaba

Are u sure u r a highly skilled immigrant?

a person on h4 can have a ssn (Social Security Number) under the following conditions

1. EAD holder (that means I-485 was filed)
2. Previous H1 (working) now H4 (not working)
3. Previous F1 (student) undergrad or grad -> used cpt or opt to work -> now H4 holder
4. Previous L2 now H4 (L2s can get EAD, thereby SSN)


That basically leaves people whose spouses came directly on H4 in the last few months and/or people who did not apply for 485 in july.