Education Evaluation I-140 RFE - HELP

[dgs]

Got the RFE. It’s on Education.

Am B.Sc. (Non comp-science) and have applied under EB-3.l

Here's the verbiage from RFE.

[Begin RFE Verbiage]
The submitted labor certification, From ETA 9089, requires that the beneficiary have a Bachelor’s Degree [or foreign degree equivalent] in the field of Computer Science, any Science, or engineering and 4 years of experience as either and Architect/Modeler, Business Intelligence, or Data Warehouse Methodologies as of the date of filing for labor certification (March 22, 2007)

The petitioner has submitted as evidence of the beneficiary’s qualifications: an educational evaluation from <evaluations company>, a copy of the beneficiary’s three year bachelor’s degree in the field of <non comp-science field>, a diploma from Aptech Computer Education, training certificates and several letters of experience. While the beneficiary appears to have the required experience, it is unclear whether the beneficiary has a bachelor’s degree or foreign degree equivalent. The submitted educational evaluation is different from those received by USCIS for similar credentials.

Please submit evidence that the benficiary obtained the required bachelor’s degree [or foreign degree equivalent] in the field of Computer Science, any Science, or engineering before March 22, 2007. Evidence of education must be in the form of an official record showing the dates of attendance, area of concentration of study, and date of degree award, if any.

[End RFE Verbiage]


Verbiage in approved PERM labor:

[Begin Approved Labor verbiage]

Section H Job opportunity information (where work will be performed)
Line 4. Education Minimum level required : Bachelors
Line 4-B Major field of study: Computer Science
Line 7 – Is there alternate field of study that’s acceptable : Yes
Line 7-A – If Yes on Lien 7, specify the major field of study : Any Sceince or Engineering
Line 9 – Is a foreign educational equivalent acceptable : Yes
Line 10 – Is Experience in alternate occupation acceptable : Yes (48 Months)

[End Approved Labor verbiage]


My academics/experience:
• 3 Years Bachelor of Science (Not comp-science)
• 2 years diploma from Aptech Education (Aptech is a computer training institute from India)
• 8+ years experience prior to filing labor and with other employers

EDIT NOTE: All, please note that the rest of this original post has been edited to better phrase the options/questions after receiving some of the response. So thread readers, please read the thread accrodingly.
How do I proceed?

Option A. Submit transcripts and certificates only including that from Aptech.

Option B.
Option A + Revised Evaluation considering Aptech in the evaluation and equating to B.Sc. Comp Science?

Option C.
Option A + revised eduication evaluation supporting Bachelor in Botany US Equivalent?

Sorry for the long post. But wanted to share as much detail with you all as possible before asking the questions.

Questions:
1. What do you guys think? How should we structure the response? Which option should we go for?

2. Would there be a problem in submitting another evaluation showing B.Sc. Botany equivalent (while the original with I-140 showing B.Sc. Comp. science. Note that my labor does allow "Any Science" and we could submit the response calling out certain interpretations of RFE as requiring a revised eval)

Thanks.

[desi3933]

Diploma from NIIT/Aptech is not recognised by USCIS as it is NOT recognised by UGC in India.

Can you provide more details about your BSc? When was the degree awarded?

________________________
Not a legal advice.
US citizen of Indian origin

[dgs]

Originally Posted by desi3933

Diploma from NIIT/Aptech is not recognised by USCIS as it is NOT recognised by UGC in India.

Can you provide more details about your BSc? When was the degree awarded?

________________________
Not a legal advice.
US citizen of Indian origin

B.Sc. Botany. Mumbai University. Awarded in 1996

Note that a third party education evaluation was done to prove B.Sc. Comp. Science equivalent and was submitted along with I-140.

But that evaluation considered only B.Sc. Botany and Aptech Diploma to establish the equivalent comp. science in US.

Lawyer is suggesting we just submit the transcripts for B.Sc. Botany and Aptech documenting the length of education and along with the awarded certificates (addressing the verbiage "showing dates of attendance, area of concentration of study and date of degree award" in RFE)

I am thinking that the inclusion of Aptech in the evaluation was the problem. Maybe if we restructure the evaluation to use B.Sc. Botany and use some experience towards the academics, then that might help.

[desi3933]

Originally Posted by dgs

B.Sc. Botany. Mumbai University. Awarded in 1996

Note that a third party education evaluation was done to prove B.Sc. Comp. Science equivalent and was submitted along with I-140.

But that evaluation considered only B.Sc. Botany and Aptech Diploma to establish the equivalent comp. science in US.

Lawyer is suggesting we just submit the transcripts for B.Sc. Botany and Aptech documenting the length of education and along with the awarded certificates (addressing the verbiage "showing dates of attendance, area of concentration of study and date of degree award" in RFE)

I am thinking that the inclusion of Aptech in the evaluation was the problem. Maybe if we restructure the evaluation to use B.Sc. Botany and use some experience towards the academics, then that might help.

>> Note that a third party education evaluation was done to prove B.Sc. Comp. Science equivalent and was submitted along with I-140.
Who did that kind of evaluation? This was, obviously, not done properly. In RFE, it mentions that The submitted educational evaluation is different from those received by USCIS for similar credentials.

As I said before, Aptech diploma can not be used for evaluation. I will need more details about your courses attended during BSc and credit hours for each course. Does LCA say anything about 3 year BS degree?

______________________
Not a legal advise

[dgs]

Originally Posted by desi3933

>> Note that a third party education evaluation was done to prove B.Sc. Comp. Science equivalent and was submitted along with I-140.
Who did that kind of evaluation? This was, obviously, not done properly. In RFE, it mentions that The submitted educational evaluation is different from those received by USCIS for similar credentials.

As I said before, Aptech diploma can not be used for evaluation. I will need more details about your courses attended during BSc and credit hours for each course. Does LCA say anything about 3 year BS degree?

______________________
Not a legal advise

The LCA verbiage is in the first post. Let me know if there's any other specific line in the LCA that you are looking for. The verbiage "any science" was included in the labor and also on the RFE from USCIS. So any science is acceptable.

Degree was 1993 through 1996. Was a 3 year degree.

[gapala]

Originally Posted by dgs

B.Sc. Botany. Mumbai University. Awarded in 1996

Note that a third party education evaluation was done to prove B.Sc. Comp. Science equivalent and was submitted along with I-140.

Who did the evaluation? When did they do it? What is the basis used for evaluation. I remember way back one of my co-worker has gone through your situation. he was talking about evaluation being done through a well known firm in 2003. I believe he got the GC in 2004. He was Bachelors in Business + Aptech or NIIT 2 year diploma or something.

[desi3933]

Originally Posted by gapala

Who did the evaluation? When did they do it? What is the basis used for evaluation. I remember way back one of my friend has gone through your situation. he was talking about evaluation being done through a well known firm in 2003. I believe he got the GC in 2004. He was Bachelors in Business + Aptech or NIIT 2 year diploma or something.

In past many people got away with NIIT/Aptech. Talk to your attorney about it and you will be surprised that many RFEs issued for this.

[dgs]

Originally Posted by desi3933

In past many people got away with NIIT/Aptech. Talk to your attorney about it and you will be surprised that many RFEs issued for this.

Agreed. But what next? See my questions in original post? What's the best next step given my situation?

Any education evaluators you would recommend in my case?

Thanks.

[a_yaja]

Originally Posted by dgs

Agreed. But what next? See my questions in original post? What's the best next step given my situation?

Any education evaluators you would recommend in my case?

Thanks.

Per USCIS rules, an education evaluation agency cannot evaluate your work experience as equivalent to course work. That can only be done by a University professor. I would suggest that you contact Sheila @ the degree people - she provides free consultation for I-140 and H1B RFEs. A friend of mine had a similar RFE (which specifically stated that education evaluation agency cannot evaluate work exp. as study credits), but for H1 - and she got her in touch with the right people. Ultimately a professor evaluated her degree (3 year B.Sc. degree + 2 year M.A. degree) + work exp. to be equivalent to a US 4 yr degree.

[desi3933]

Originally Posted by dgs

Agreed. But what next? See my questions in original post? What's the best next step given my situation?

Any education evaluators you would recommend in my case?

Thanks.

Your labor does NOT mention acceptance of 3 year bachelor degree and that may ba an issue. You need to demonstrate that your degree is equivalent to 4 year BS degree.

However, since you have submitted evaluation equivalent to BS Computer Science at the time of I-140, your new evaluation can not be much different now.

You may take course and credit wise approach to prove that your 3 year degree is equivalent to 4 year BS Botany degree in US. But this evaluation is very different from what you have submitted before.

This is another example that one should be more prudent for details mentioned in labor.

Good Luck.

_____________________
Not a legal advice.
US citizen of Indian origin

[h1techSlave]

I suggest you use some good evaluators which are used by reputed Universities.

For example UMUC uses AACRAO. http://www.umuc.edu/studserv/aacr.html

Get your degree evaluated by the same guys. The format that AACRAO sends will be meeting the 'standard' that USCIS is expecting.

Originally Posted by dgs

Agreed. But what next? See my questions in original post? What's the best next step given my situation?

Any education evaluators you would recommend in my case?

Thanks.

[gapala]

Originally Posted by dgs

Agreed. But what next? See my questions in original post? What's the best next step given my situation?

Any education evaluators you would recommend in my case?

Thanks.

Could you also provide information on who did your evaluation? This will help us assess their credentials and standards. I will try to get in touch with the guy and see if he can provide some details. PM me if you do not want to put it on the forum.

As someone suggested, Sheila is a good starting point for evaluations.

[dgs]

Originally Posted by desi3933

However, since you have submitted evaluation equivalent to BS Computer Science at the time of I-140, your new evaluation can not be much different now.

You may take course and credit wise approach to prove that your 3 year degree is equivalent to 4 year BS Botany degree in US. But this evaluation is very different from what you have submitted before.

Sections 7 is Yes and 7-A is "Any Science or engineering"

So maybe I have a chance. What do you think?

Originally Posted by desi3933

This is another example that one should be more prudent for details mentioned in labor.

I know. I wish every applicant had complete control and insights into the application process and then also had the knowledge to execute it right.

Originally Posted by desi3933

Good Luck.

Thanks! But I sincerely hope that documentation works better for me before I have to start relying on luck!

[gapala]

Here's what he did. Instead of Ed. Eval, which he did first and got RFE on, he did a Course by Course Eval and that did it for him. He did the Course by Course with TrustForte Corporation which according to him has impecable credentials in this area. If this info help you in any way, please consider a contribution to IV.

Good luck.

I googled them and got this info. You can visit their website for more information using below link. (I also saw that they have an application form on top right side)

http://www.trustfortecorp.com/cou_evaluations.html

A Course-by-Course Evaluation is an in-depth analysis of all academic coursework completed by the candidate. The course-by-course evaluation analyzes each course completed by the candidate in the context of the educational system of the foreign country, the reputation of the university, the subject matter of the course, the credit hours completed, and the grade obtained in the course. We then convert the coursework, credits, grades, and overall grade point average attained by the candidate in the foreign institution into the equivalent measures according to US standards. The course-by-course evaluation concludes with a determination of the equivalency of the foreign credentials in terms of US academic standards.


Documents Required for a course-by-course evaluation: copies of all diplomas, transcripts, and postgraduate degrees. Transcripts should specify, at a minimum, the credit hours completed by the candidate and the grades obtained in the courses.

[dgs]

Thanks everyone for your inputs so far. Keep them coming.

Question: And for this I would like to draw your attention to the RFE text again. Especially the para:

Please submit evidence that the benficiary obtained the required bachelor’s degree [or foreign degree equivalent] in the field of Computer Science, any Science, or engineering before March 22, 2007. Evidence of education must be in the form of an official record showing the dates of attendance, area of concentration of study, and date of degree award, if any.

How do you guys read this?
A. Submit a revised education evaluation, OR
B. Just submit transcripts showing dates, area of study and degree certificate showing award date. (Note the words "Evidence of Education" and not "Evaluation of education"...let me know if I am reading too much into it and complicating things)

If you guys think it's "B", then a follow up questions:
* Would it hurt if we still go ahead a submit, along with the transcripts and certificates, a revised education evaluation?
* If a revised education evaluation is submitted, does it have to be from the some person/organization that submitted the intiial one OR can it be from a different person/organization?

Thanks again guys. This is definitely helping in analyzing the RFE and charting out the next steps.