Senator questioning Microsoft: How many H1 are you laying Off ?

[happygolucky]

http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...50M6M220090123

[gcdreamer05]

I read this too, what these idiots dont understand is, out of those guest workers many would have filed for green card and it does not mean that firing them means they have to get back to their home country...

So they are not going anywhere and will be here to stay, it just causes more headache for these guys, to find a new sponsorer who will still support their GC, do Ac21 or start LC frm scratch and port PD.

The article also says they are gonna lay off lot of sales, finance, legal and IT. I am sure there are not many ppl frm h1b in to finance, legal and sales. So MS is still gonna fire US citizens and then these senators are going to make a big deal out of it...

Again look at it, the guys who are making big issues are from the republicans.... (a.ka. friends of burger king (steve king of iowa))....

[gapala]

Its really unfortunate to see senators are descriminating against the workers who regardless of their "immigration status" commit their good part of life for the growth and development of these companies. Companies acknowledge that fact. This really shows the 19th century mentality of the senator. Instead of urging the companies to do the right thing for the future growth, looking at the potential of the employees and eliminate those jobs based on below average job performance and revenue earning potential, he wants companies to look at only 1 criteria whether they are Citizens or GC holders or H1B to set the precedence during job cut. This is a formula for guaranteed failure .

I also understand his general feeling about protecting the american citizens in these hard economic times. But this shows that he does not have capability to draw broader picture, First of all we are all human beings and Senator forget to mention that hard economic times impact all, be it a Guest workers or GC holder or a Citizen. All of them live in this country and contribute towards the economy. Infact Guest workers are more vulnerable due to the delays in GC administration and adjudication process. He also fail to understand that due to his unnecessary interference in the internal matter of the companies, he is potnetially driving the companies away from american soil. He forgot the fact that a good number of these companies were co-founded by people who were once Guest workers in this country. This is a typical example of lack of understanding of crisis management strategies. Even more dangerous, these misdirected statements from politicians will feed into the anti-immigrants mindset and eventually create social unrest

[add78]

This is normal expected behavior from the protectionists and fear mongers like Grassley n Dobbs, there is nothing to worry about. Microsoft will respond saying it is reducing headcount in certain departments that are considered non essential or non core to its main business and the reduction will be based on performance, types of positions being eliminated and the departments targeted. If these positions happen to be staffed with GC/Citizens then it is unfortunate that they will be the majority of the laid off employees. They will say that the majority of their H1-Bs are in the Engineering/IT departments which are necessary and vital to their core business of producing software, therefore they cannot lay off H1-Bs just to protect GC/Citizens because most of them are in completely different positions / job types. (or something like that - which basically satisfies the law)....

[sanju]

Its simple. He is a politician, so he is acting like one. He is doing grand standing to gather the support of folks who are nationalist/protectionist. A PMP certified person thinks about 'crisis management strategies', a politician thinks about getting support of the nationalist. So he is doing extactly what he is expected of him.


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[gc28262]

Will companies prefer an H1 guy over GC/Citizen when both are equally qualified ? No
It does't make sense to deal with additional immigration headaches.

This is all a political drama.
Republicans always care more about companies than common people.
They have actually sold out this country to companies.
Who is he trying to impress ? Some ill-informed citizens.

[senthil1]

The purpose H1b is to hire foreigners only when there is no skilled people available in US citizens. Still they should not give any preference while laying off people. But if there is really excess people are available in the market they have to reduce/restrict H1b Cap,L1 and discourage outsourcing if really want to protect american jobs. Again when economy grows H1b Cap need to be increased. But in some areas still there is not enough skills are available. But many people willing to come USA are normal programmers. But there is real demand for scientists , enterprenurs and other highly skilled people not for 40k jobs. This year also Cap is going be reached on first day(I am anticipating 150 to 200K applications). But most H1bs will be from consulting companies as very little permanent jobs are there because of recession. Still the immigration lawyers/Pro H1bs are going to shout that there is huge demand for h1b and increase the cap but actually most companies are laying of people left and right.

Originally Posted by gc28262

Will companies prefer an H1 guy over GC/Citizen when both are equally qualified ? No
It does't make sense to deal with additional immigration headaches.

This is all a political drama.
Republicans always care more about companies than common people.
They have actually sold out this country to companies.
Who is he trying to impress ? Some ill-informed citizens.

[sanju]

Originally Posted by senthil1

The purpose H1b is to hire foreigners only when there is no skilled people available in US citizens. Still they should not give any preference while laying off people. But if there is really excess people are available in the market they have to reduce/restrict H1b Cap,L1 and discourage outsourcing if really want to protect american jobs. Again when economy grows H1b Cap need to be increased. But in some areas still there is not enough skills are available. But many people willing to come USA are normal programmers. But there is real demand for scientists , enterprenurs and other highly skilled people not for 40k jobs. This year also Cap is going be reached on first day(I am anticipating 150 to 200K applications). But most H1bs will be from consulting companies as very little permanent jobs are there because of recession. Still the immigration lawyers/Pro H1bs are going to shout that there is huge demand for h1b and increase the cap but actually most companies are laying of people left and right.

Look, your argument may appear to be good on paper, but I think in real world, it doesn't hold much water. Here is why?

Microsoft is no longer an "American" company, its a global company. Frankly, MS sells more operating system to other countries which is 6billion [world population] minus 300million [US population]. Also, they do much of the development and R&D work in Canada, China, India and elsewhere. So grassley's letter reflects false sense of ownership of MS.

If MS or for that matter any other company is developing a new product and they have some H1B guys develop a project to rollout in 2010 or whatever. Is it feasible to replace those H1b guys with someone with the same skill set (but have no knowledge of the history and institutional knowledge of the new product) who just become available, keeping in mind that the success of the project depends on the same guy (on H1B) to continue to complete the development and rollout of the new product?

So it is true that "The purpose H1b is to hire foreigners only when there is no skilled people available in US citizens.". But isn't institutional knowledge or new ideas not part of the skill set? Who decides that? Shouldn't the business interest and competitiveness drive that? So should MS be allowed to do it themselves? Or should grassley decide who is to be retained or who is to be laid off? grassley is lalu of America. Sorry lalu ji if I lowered your standard by comparing grassley to you.

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[ZeroComplexity]

This really bothers me. No question Lay-offs are hard, if it comes to it, H1-B or not H1-B, it has to be done based on competence of the employee. It is true that when hiring US citizens have to given preference but when doing a lay-off, treating non-citizens as dispensable scape goats is obsoletely wrong. Just because someone is not a citizen it doesn't mean they have don't have roots in this country or they are not looking forward to be citizens.

[bugmenot]

singling out H-1B's and Laying them out will be the dumbest move ever by any company as it can bring about a major class action suit citing Anti-Discrimination Laws

companys are smart enough to know this , Senator Grassley is not

[gc_check]

CNN's Lou picked this one already
http://loudobbs.tv.cnn.com/2009/01/2...ing-americans/

Anyway, Hopefully Microsoft gives a good explanation to the Senator/American people and also does not layoff anyone, only for them being in H1B status. Obviously some will be affected and these folks will definitely find some other job else where.... l believe MS is an Equal Opportunity Employer and a very profession organization and handles this very very sensitive issue well. Already many folks, US Citizen and non citizens all are very frustrated and some people try to take advantage of this and are playing with people sentiments. This is very sad, to see happen in this nation built by immigrants.

[Tito_ortiz]

Sanju, the point is that Mr Grassley referred to layoffs in the US soil. I think people do not care and have an argument if layoffs happen in Canada or in China.

It makes no sense to dismiss employees based on visa status.

At the same time, for future hiring of H1B, as the unemployment grows I am afraid lawmakers will have ammo to reduce quotas for H1Bs.

Can Microsoft still hire H1B after such major recent layoff? I recall that back in 2001, Cisco greatly minimized or stopped hiring H1B's. Even if the law allows the hiring of H1B after a major layoff, I am not sure whether the company could support the public scrutiny and tremendous pressure to follow in the weeks to come.

Originally Posted by sanju

Look, your argument may appear to be good on paper, but I think in real world, it doesn't hold much water. Here is why?

Microsoft is no longer an "American" company, its a global company. Frankly, MS sells more operating system to other countries which is 6billion [world population] minus 300million [US population]. Also, they do much of the development and R&D work in Canada, China, India and elsewhere. So grassley's letter reflects false sense of ownership of MS.


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[leoindiano]

Oh Boy, Funny Grassley.....what a joke....He is going against constitution now?

Telling MS to fire people based on their ethnicity, nationality?

Obama, Mr. Hope God, pls. tell this guy to shut up? Thank You

[ajay]

There is no doubt about the fact that citizens should be given the first advantage since s/he is the one who decides about the people who should rule this country. Now, there is no denying the fact that lot of people from outside on H1 have contributed to the growth of this big software.
And moreover these citizens should bring the idea of keeping the people who are well informed about the product. All of us wish to become citizens eventually but it takes what it takes and we have to get over it.

[senthil1]

Microsoft has every right(Both legally and Morally) to keep whom and layoff whom based on company needs. But Bill Gates this year will not have Moral rights to lobby for More H1b if all of the layoffs are from US Citizens. I think this year he will not give any speech in Congress about H1b(Every year he used give speech to make H1b unlimited). But if Government makes globalization as open policy to have open compettion then unlimited H1b is possible. Is any Senator can support globalization without bothering loss of job in US citizens? They will certainly will have fear of losing in elections if they support openly. But right now policy is hire foreigners only when no skilled persons are available. More layoffs in US citizens more problems for future H1b program. EB is also related to H1b programs so layoffs will be a hurdle to pass any EB reform also.

Originally Posted by leoindiano

Oh Boy, Funny Grassley.....what a joke....He is going against constitution now?

Telling MS to fire people based on their ethnicity, nationality?

Obama, Mr. Hope God, pls. tell this guy to shut up? Thank You