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missedthecut
06-30-2009, 10:03 PM
Hi Friends,

Filed my labor on 12-12-2007 and it was selected for random audit in February 2008 and my attorney sent the response in March 2008. I am still waiting for a decision from DOL. Would someone that has gone through similar situation, please advice me on how to go further in my GC process. I'm really depressed as my first stage itself is having lot of hurdles and still there is a long way to got to I485 stage. I am in my 5th year of my H1b visa. I asked for a copy of my documents that my employer submitted but he is not willing to share with me. How can I obtain these documents. I even filed FOIA request and DOL has not given the documents yet. I really appreciate your help. What are the chances of approval and how can I find out if it will be approved.

windycloud
07-01-2009, 11:28 AM
My PD is Oct. 07 and my audited perm was approved this May. That said I certainly understand how you feel. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to speed it up so stop trying. I'm not saying this out of negativity. It's just how it is so do yourself a favor and stop ruining your summer over this. I fought and struggled long and hard and later calmed down. And one day the approval email showed up in my boss' outlook. And that's how it's going to be for you as well.

The real bottle neck is the lack of visas. I had my 140 approved in less than a month and now I'll sit for years before I can file 485. So what difference does it make other than the 3-year vs. 1-year H1B extension? And I am most certain that you will have both your perm and 140 approved long before your H-1B runs out.

I know it's all easier said than done. And I'm the first to admit that the whole immigration thing really has changed my personality for the worse. :) I'm more short-tempered, worry all the time and very impatient with pretty much everything in life all thanks to this crap. But then it makes it all more necessary to remind myself to relax and chill. I have to be my own shrink so I won't be my own murderer one day. :)

Best of luck to you and all who are waiting in the DOL jail.

ganguteli
07-01-2009, 11:33 AM
Hi Friends,

Filed my labor on 12-12-2007 and it was selected for random audit in February 2008 and my attorney sent the response in March 2008. I am still waiting for a decision from DOL. Would someone that has gone through similar situation, please advice me on how to go further in my GC process. I'm really depressed as my first stage itself is having lot of hurdles and still there is a long way to got to I485 stage. I am in my 5th year of my H1b visa. I asked for a copy of my documents that my employer submitted but he is not willing to share with me. How can I obtain these documents. I even filed FOIA request and DOL has not given the documents yet. I really appreciate your help. What are the chances of approval and how can I find out if it will be approved.

I don't understand why your attorney cannot share the documents?
If they cannot give originals, how about photocopies?
Can you complain about it in state bar?
Read http://immigrationvoice.org/wiki/index.php/HOW_TO_REPORT_A_BAD_IMMIGRATION_LAWYER

windycloud
07-01-2009, 11:54 AM
They don't share because PERM is an employer's petition. What do you need the documents for? What's done is done. Just wait for the result.

geevikram
07-01-2009, 11:54 AM
So, it made you impatient,huh!! It actually made me a lot more patient, because I now know there are certain things that I cannot change or control. Made me appreciate how little control we have over bigger scheme of things :)

ganguteli
07-01-2009, 12:02 PM
They don't share because PERM is an employer's petition. What do you need the documents for? What's done is done. Just wait for the result.

BS.

What will your employer lose if they share a photocopy. Tell them you will pay for the cost of photocopying. 75 cents or whatever.

Why don't you accept the fact that your employer is exploiting you and the lawyer is supporting him in this exploitation. Where is legal ethics?

Your employer wants to have control over your life and career... and you are not willing to do anything about it? You are also equally responsible for your own exploitation as much as your employer. There is a quote from Gandhi to this effect.

People quote Mahatma Gandhi and want to do rally, but they do not have the courage to follow Mahatma Gandhi in their own backyard first.

windycloud
07-01-2009, 12:21 PM
BS.

What will your employer lose if they share a photocopy. Tell them you will pay for the cost of photocopying. 75 cents or whatever.

Why don't you accept the fact that your employer is exploiting you and the lawyer is supporting him in this exploitation. Where is legal ethics?

Your employer wants to have control over your life and career... and you are not willing to do anything about it? You are also equally responsible for your own exploitation as much as your employer. There is a quote from Gandhi to this effect.

People quote Mahatma Gandhi and want to do rally, but they do not have the courage to follow Mahatma Gandhi in their own backyard first.

lol ok go ahead and make every detail of this immigration process into a raging crusade. I've started to have my EB anger under control but you sound like you have a long way to go.

windycloud
07-01-2009, 12:22 PM
So, it made you impatient,huh!! It actually made me a lot more patient, because I now know there are certain things that I cannot change or control. Made me appreciate how little control we have over bigger scheme of things :)

That's a better perspective isn't it? You are a wiser man than I am.

ganguteli
07-01-2009, 12:32 PM
lol ok go ahead and make every detail of this immigration process into a raging crusade. I've started to have my EB anger under control but you sound like you have a long way to go.

If we want to fight injustice and change the system, then you should not keep quiet. You are not illegal in this country to live in fear. Then why are you scared?

desi3933
07-01-2009, 12:43 PM
BS.

What will your employer lose if they share a photocopy. Tell them you will pay for the cost of photocopying. 75 cents or whatever.

Will you give someone photocopy of your tax return, if he pays for photocopy cost 75 cents or whatever. What will you lose if you share a photocopy?

The tax return belongs to you. It is upto you to decide whether to share it or not.

Same way, it is upto employer whether to share labor related documents with anyone else (including employee) or not.

I hope, you see the reasoning now.


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windycloud
07-01-2009, 12:48 PM
If we want to fight injustice and change the system, then you should not keep quiet. You are not illegal in this country to live in fear. Then why are you scared?

Scared I ain't and I agree with the rest of your comment. But to be loudly outraged with anything and everything without a keen understanding of how things work is hardly putting up a fight, not an effective one anyway.

PERM is an employer filed petition so it's within reason for many companies and their attorneys to set a policy of not sharing details with the beneficiaries, which is us. This policy is in alignment with that of the DOL's. It's not just about how much the copies cost. Call the employers exploiters over this reason? That seems overly dramatic to me. In this long tactic game of immigration you need to understand most of the rules to be able to decide who's your alliance and your enemy, and when and where to "attack". If you consider all to be against you every step of the way then it's a battle you'll lose.

ganguteli
07-01-2009, 12:56 PM
Scared I ain't and I agree with the rest of your comment. But to be loudly outraged with anything and everything without a keen understanding of how things work is hardly putting up a fight, not an effective one anyway.

PERM is an employer filed petition so it's within reason for many companies and their attorneys to set a policy of not sharing details with the beneficiaries, which is us. This policy is in alignment with that of the DOL's. It's not just about how much the copies cost. Call the employers exploiters over this reason? That seems overly dramatic to me. In this long tactic game of immigration you need to understand most of the rules to be able to decide who's your alliance and your enemy, and when and where to "attack". If you consider all to be against you every step of the way then it's a battle you'll lose.

What do you mean by aligning with DOL policy?
Show me a rule that says these documents cannot be shared by the applicant.

ganguteli
07-01-2009, 12:58 PM
Will you give someone photocopy of your tax return, if he pays for photocopy cost 75 cents or whatever. What will you lose if you share a photocopy?

The tax return belongs to you. It is upto you to decide whether to share it or not.

Same way, it is upto employer whether to share labor related documents with anyone else (including employee) or not.

I hope, you see the reasoning now.


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First, this is not a tax document. It is a document about me. If they want to hire me permanently in future and value me so much, I have all the right to see it on paper to make my life and career decisions.

People are so used to exploitation in every stage of the process that they think it is a rule to be exploited.

desi3933
07-01-2009, 01:19 PM
First, this is not a tax document. It is a document about me. If they want to hire me permanently in future and value me so much, I have all the right to see it on paper to make my life and career decisions.

Employer has the right not to share the PERM document with the beneficiary. This document is not about you. This document is about job position that employer is trying to fillup. You just happen to be beneficiary.

This document can not be modified or edited by beneficiary.

>> I have all the right to see it on paper to make my life and career decisions
Please explain, how a copy of PERM document going to achieve that?


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desi3933
07-01-2009, 01:23 PM
Mr. G. Teli -

Is there any rule that PERM has to be shared with the beneficiary? If so, please share with us.


Code of Federal Regulations (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/ecfr/)

PART 656--LABOR CERTIFICATION PROCESS FOR PERMANENT EMPLOYMENT OF ALIENS IN THE UNITED STATES (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=c761e17e200f95c1af436970ebec200e&rgn=div5&view=text&node=20:3.0.2.1.35&idno=20)


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ganguteli
07-01-2009, 01:35 PM
Mr. G. Teli -

Is there any rule that PERM has to be shared with the beneficiary? If so, please share with us.


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Stop throwing PART 656--LABOR CERTIFICATION PROCESS FOR PERMANENT EMPLOYMENT OF ALIENS IN THE UNITED STATES
I can also google and show off.

Now coming to your next question:
That is precisely the point. If there are no DOL rules, why should rules be created by your lawyer and employer? This is one of their means to control you and you know it. So if you are so important for them why can't you also take a stand and negotiate.

The thing is people are so used to being pushed around that they cannot speak. And we have so called experts on the forum who try to teach them rules but do not encourage them to stand up for themselves. If there are bad rules, then let us all change them. It is because of all this Indians techies do not get respect they deserve. This is a bitter truth that people cannot hear it but will give reds to anyone saying it. Think about it.

desi3933
07-01-2009, 01:37 PM
That is precisely the point. If there are no DOL rules, why should rules be created by your lawyer and employer? This is one of their means to control you and you know it. So if you are so important for them why can't you also take a stand and negotiate.
.....

Great Logic!

Well, there is no rule that Employer has to share Corporate Tax Return with employee either. With your great logic, employee should be able to ask for copy of employer tax return also.

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desi3933
07-01-2009, 01:41 PM
Stop throwing PART 656--LABOR CERTIFICATION PROCESS FOR PERMANENT EMPLOYMENT OF ALIENS IN THE UNITED STATES
I can also Google and show off.


I didn't throw at you. I shared the info with forum readers (including you).

Who has stopped you for googling and putting relevant information here? And I don't consider that show off.

Have you heard the term "share the knowledge"?


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ganguteli
07-01-2009, 01:45 PM
Great Logic!

Well, there is no rule that Employer has to share Corporate Tax Return with employee either. With your great logic, employee should be able to ask for copy of employer tax return also.

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Of Course YES.

My friend had Ability to Pay RFE and he negotiated and got all tax documents from the employer for the lawyer so that RFE can be replied. Big employers have their financial information public. But this was a small private ownership employer. I know this because I have seen the documents and have been advising him all along the process.

It all depends how important you are to the company. If the employer wants to retain you and keep you permanently, he will go an extra mile to keep your talent. Is'nt this what EB greencard process all about.

desi3933
07-01-2009, 01:51 PM
.....
If there are bad rules, then let us all change them. It is because of all this Indians techies do not get respect they deserve.
.....


Speak for yourself and don't paint the whole community with your color of your clouded judgement.

I am a US citizen of India origin and I am proud to be of Indian origin. I have been here in this country for 11+ years and I see lot of respect for me.

Event Senate passed resolution mentioning significant contributions to society in every profession and discipline by people of Asian Indian origin. Here is the senate resolution honoring contribution of Indian Americans and my college IIT.

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress) (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?r109:H26AP5-0025:)

desi3933
07-01-2009, 01:55 PM
It all depends how important you are to the company. If the employer wants to retain you and keep you permanently, he will go an extra mile to keep your talent.Is'nt this what EB greencard process all about.

I agree with you. Many employer go extra mile to retain valued employee. But this is employer's choice. He may go that extra mile or not. This is not employee's right. This is the point I am trying to make.

Ultimately, it is employer's choice and voluntary decision, not a legal requirement.


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ganguteli
07-01-2009, 02:10 PM
I agree with you. Many employer go extra mile to retain valued employee. But this is employer's choice. He may go that extra mile or not. This is not employee's right. This is the point I am trying to make.

Ultimately, it is employer's choice and voluntary decision, not a legal requirement.


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That is my point too. It is not a legal requirement. But people think it is a legal requirement when their employer or lawyer does not share the document. This thinking exposes them to all kinds to exploitation and employers control them as modern day slaves. And when that happens all these people come to the forums crying and say that their employer is sucking blood. But they themselves allow this happen.

You need to earn your respect if you claim to be best and the brightest and high skilled. If you have talent and skills, you cannot be replaced/No US citizen can be found.... your employer will also desperately want you and be willing to accept your terms. So negotiate.

ganguteli
07-01-2009, 02:15 PM
Speak for yourself and don't paint the whole community with your color of your clouded judgement.

I am a US citizen of India origin and I am proud to be of Indian origin. I have been here in this country for 11+ years and I see lot of respect for me.

Event Senate passed resolution mentioning significant contributions to society in every profession and discipline by people of Asian Indian origin. Here is the senate resolution honoring contribution of Indian Americans and my college IIT.

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress) (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?r109:H26AP5-0025:)

Truth hurts when provoked. Isn't it?

I do not care if you are a US citizen or a citizen of Madagaskar.
I will also become a US citizen in a few years and others on this forum will too.

Senate passes many resolutions. They also discuss resolution for horses ahead of immigrant people.

Good for you that you are from IIT. But do not wear it around. I am also but never said it on the forums till now. Being from IIT does not make someone superior than others.

desi3933
07-01-2009, 02:19 PM
That is my point too. It is not a legal requirement. .....

I am glad that you understand that this is not a legal requirement.

However, I was wondering why did you put this in your post. If this is not a legal requirement, how can you complain against attorney?

I don't understand why your attorney cannot share the documents?
If they cannot give originals, how about photocopies?
Can you complain about it in state bar?
Read http://immigrationvoice.org/wiki/index.php/HOW_TO_REPORT_A_BAD_IMMIGRATION_LAWYER (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/../wiki/index.php/HOW_TO_REPORT_A_BAD_IMMIGRATION_LAWYER)

desi3933
07-01-2009, 02:25 PM
Truth hurts when provoked. Isn't it?

I know how you feel.

I do not care if you are a US citizen or a citizen of Madagaskar. I will also become a US citizen in a few years and others on this forum will too.

So, what is your point?

Senate passes many resolutions. They also discuss resolution for horses ahead of immigrant people.

Good for you that you are from IIT. But do not wear it around. I am also but never said it on the forums till now. Being from IIT does not make someone superior than others.

I never said that I am superior than anyone else for any reason, whether it is being US citizen or being IITian or working in dot net or Living in Texas or being of Asian Indian origin etc. But I am proud of all these things, whats wrong with that?

There is a difference between being proud of something and being arrogant about it.


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ganguteli
07-01-2009, 02:28 PM
I am glad that you understand that this is not a legal requirement.

However, I was wondering why did you put this in your post. If this is not a legal requirement, how can you complain against attorney?

It is not a legal requirement for the attorney to keep the document with him and not share with the applicant. So why should one keep quiet.

The point is to raise your voice. Go after people who are using this and other means to exploit you. Complain, report to media or authorities and make noise so that there is no exploitation.

Do not advice people to suffer and tell them they cannot do anything. Because they can do something. If you can change immigration laws via collective effort, this kind of small effort by someone is no big deal if people take it up and learn to stand up for themselves.

desi3933
07-01-2009, 02:35 PM
It is not a legal requirement for the attorney to keep the document with him and not share with the applicant. So why should one keep quiet.

Attorney's client for PERM app is Employer and without client's (Employer's) consent, attorney can not share document with anyone.

Only recourse is that employee ask for Employer's consent and it is upto Employer to go that extra mile or not.

How difficult is that for you to understand that?


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desi3933
07-01-2009, 02:42 PM
.....
Do not advice people to suffer and tell them they cannot do anything. Because they can do something. If you can change immigration laws via collective effort, this kind of small effort by someone is no big deal if people take it up and learn to stand up for themselves.

I don't suggest anybody to suffer. If employer (or job) is not of your choice, then move to another job of your choice and negotiate before joining the job.

Just like Employer has a choice to hire anyone, we (high skilled workers) also have a choice to work for employer of our choice. It is mutual.

I got everything related to green card from my employer, in writing, as part of employment offer. And My employer paid for all GC expenses including EAD for my spouse.


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Raghunadh Polavarapu
07-01-2009, 02:53 PM
Dear Desi3933

No one on this forum cares if you are from IIT or ITI. So, stop telling people that you are from IIT.

It is good that you are appreciated for your work by your employer. Your work is appreciated because of your hardwork, intelligence and attitude, and not because of IIT.

By the way, I have worked with one of your college mate, I can say that he is the one of the worst (technically and attitude wise) programmer that I worked with. Within 15 mins of meeting any Indian, he will tell that when I was at IIT.... i did this.

Otherwise what ever you said about the Perm stuff, is 100% correct.

Even my employer did not share Perm docs with me, but my employer shared I-140 and I-485.

desi3933
07-01-2009, 02:58 PM
Dear Desi3933

No one on this forum cares if you are from IIT or ITI. So, stop telling people that you are from IIT.

If you don't care then why does it bother you.


It is good that you are appreciated for your work by your employer. Your work is appreciated because of your hardwork, intelligence and attitude, and not because of IIT.

Where did I say that my work is appreciated because of my college name?

By the way, I have worked with one of your college mate, I can say that he is the one of the worst (technically and attitude) programmer that I worked with. Within 15 mins of meeting any Indian, he will tell that when I was at IIT.... i did this.

Well, not everyone from any college (even MIT) is good. IIT is no exception. I am sorry that you had bad experience.


Otherwise what ever you said about the Perm stuff, is 100% correct.

Even my employer did not share Perm docs with me, but my employer shared I-140 and I-485.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

and last, but not the least, welcome to IV


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