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View Full Version : India retrogression - 'wake up' statistics


honestbrahm
06-12-2006, 04:57 PM
Hi,

Considering the compelling power of 'numbers', can we publish a thread of compelling statistics showing the economic 'value add' by immigrants of Indian origin in the US? (IIO - Immigrants of Indian Origin)

It would be helpful to parse the current immigration debate and differentiate between ILLEGAL IMMIGR & LEGAL IMMIGR..

How about trying to get some of the following numbers?
- Average household income of IIO?
- % of hi-tech startups founded by IIO?
- % of Venture Capitalist partners who are IIO?
- Number of jobs created by companies founded by IIO?
- Number of companies funded by IIO Venture Capitalists?
- Average wage range of a H1-B worker? (Safely assume as 75K - 110K p.a.)
- $$$ contribution to Social Security and Medicare, as an aggregate across IIO and those awaiting immigration?
- % contribution to Social Security and Medicare, normalized to the total base wages of persons of Indian origin?
- % of US Masters and PhD students who would become IIO if the process were smoother?
- % of Spelling Bee contestants who are of Indian origin, over the last 5 years? (Seriously!!)
- Number of IIO that contribute to state and city government?

If we could contact the Top 10 immigration law firms, we might be able to get the above statistics. Once we have these hard numbers in hand, it is going to be a little easier to get lawmakers' attention.

Further:
- The opportunity cost of time lost due to retrogression does not create a 'win win' outcome for the economy, the applicant and the petitioner

- The actual cost of time and labor spent in following up on retrogression related concerns is time taken away from 'social value add' - like volunteering, fund raising, etc.

Regards, HB

for_gc
06-12-2006, 05:10 PM
I think if we can get hold of some of these numbers can be used in our pitches to the lawmakers ...

borgho
06-12-2006, 05:17 PM
I will request that we include statistics for all legal, high-skilled immigrants and not just Indians.

Although we will find that most of the anti-immigrant folks' image of "legal immigrants" in Information tech or medicine, etc is Indians (brown skinned) and their confusion between all "brown skinned" people and "bad people"...we must strive to not forget non-indian legal immigrants on this forum...

my 2 cents...

honestbrahm
06-12-2006, 05:27 PM
A. Take a look at:
http://www.princeton.edu/~ina/thematic_presentations/USImmigration.ppt
- Indians do not account as a materially significant population contributing to 'illegal immigration' or staying on as 'undocumented immigrants'
- IIO are the highest as a % of persons engaging in 'professional work'

B. Contributions of Legal Immigrants to the Social Security System
http://www.iacfpa.org/p_news/nit/iacpa-archieve/2005/02/25/immi2-25022005.shtml

C. Professor Annalee Saxenian of UC at Berkeley in 1999-published “Silicon Valley’s New Immigrant Entrepreneurs,” a research paper on the influence of new immigrants – primarily Indian and Chinese computer engineers and professionals – on the fast growth of Silicon Valley’s high-tech industry. Reportedly, the paper had an impact in the U.S. Congress, which at the time was reconsidering the quota system that sets a cap for the maximum number of annual H-1 work visas to be granted to foreign professionals

D. A historical retrospective
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/newamericans/foreducators_lesson_plan_05.html

E. More press...
http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=0a2a2412a725ed3fbe2c8 1db163889d7

F. Finally, Stephen Knapp's compelling statistics
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/indian_contributions_to_american_progress.htm

How do you propose we collate these into an Information Deck that can be sent to lawmakers for their considered review? We can present a fair and balanced view devoid of jingoistic sentiments, or hoary promises.

We got into a legal queue and are requesting lawmakers to take a comprehensive look at our interests in order to arrive at 'win win' outcomes.

Regards, HB
P.S. The handle does not connote religious affiliation, I state this in advance lest someone should 'fly off the handle' on this handle ...LOL. It's a throwback to a decade ago when I met one Kumar Shivasubramanian at Chennai who was interviewing people for 'Y2K' and went by the name 'Siv K Bram'... Yankee accent et al... although he hadn't worked off the Indian beer belly as yet... let humor live on as a mark of hope in these retrogressed days :)

Alabaman
06-12-2006, 05:30 PM
http://odili.net/news/source/2006/jun/10/315.html


He went to America as a student, but now owns the second largest black business in the US. One could say that Lawal is representative of the immigrant success story.

....he established a $1 million endowment at Texas Southern University’s Jesse H. Jones School of Business for the Kase and Eileen Lawal Centre for International Business Development

...plans to develop a financial service firm that can provide loans to black entrepreneurs as well as offer a bevy of financial products such as insurance, asset management, investment advisory services, and securities brokerage.

.

honestbrahm
06-12-2006, 05:32 PM
I don't disagree -- wont limit to Indians alone. Each country can come up with its list of 'wins'. But, lets face one reality: India and China have the worst position in terms of retrogression. Last I checked, the Govt of India is not as proactive as the other govt in asserting national and immigrant interests. For instance, Chinese students have special tax provisions. Heard of any such thing for Indian students? Now, Australia has an E3 visa category.

Reality is that immigrations rights are fought for and gained on nationalistic lines. Sad reality. But, it seems to be true.

That said, it would be great to get other countries' citizens join this thread with compelling numbers. And with their $$$'s too.

Regards, HB

satyasaich
06-12-2006, 05:34 PM
Let's say we got all the real numbers and present in an excellent format so that any body who can READ english can understand. Since we are already contributing to economy atleast some billions per year, what exactly is the point we have to prove or that can make law makers to say "aha, i don't know this until now " ?

sorry, not to discourage but just wondering what kind of value we can provide? infact during S1932 same approach was taken and remember that's budget deficit reduction bill, which means numbers have more value and importance than legal or illegal. but did not survived



I will request that we include statistics for all legal, high-skilled immigrants and not just Indians.

Although we will find that most of the anti-immigrant folks' image of "legal immigrants" in Information tech or medicine, etc is Indians (brown skinned) and their confusion between all "brown skinned" people and "bad people"...we must strive to not forget non-indian legal immigrants on this forum...

my 2 cents...

franklin
06-12-2006, 05:47 PM
Please don't limit this to one ethnic group. Immigration Voice is for any nationality that is affected, and the moderators have re-iterated this at length.

Just because one is affected "worse" doesn't mean you should ignore or exclude other nationalities, or dismiss them as "not affected as much as me". You do run the very real risk of alienating perfectly valid members (and their perfectly valid contributions) with this attitude. Trust me, I've been trying to persuade many people to join up and contribute who are affected, but they are more reluctant to do so when there are these types of splits.

Please remember, the system is broken for everyone. This organization is an excellent way for everyone to pitch in to help. Embrace everyone's offer to help and be sensitive to everyone's plight.

go_gc_way
06-12-2006, 05:51 PM
I do not see why such a stats can not be provided as evidence to stress the fact of value addition to Economy. IIO is worst affected branch due to Retrogression.

Following are I think valid points ..

- The opportunity cost of time lost due to retrogression does not create a 'win win' outcome for the economy, the applicant and the petitioner

- The actual cost of time and labor spent in following up on retrogression related concerns is time taken away from 'social value add' - like volunteering, fund raising, etc.

for_gc
06-12-2006, 06:14 PM
I do not see why such a stats can not be provided as evidence to stress the fact of value addition to Economy. IIO is worst affected branch due to Retrogression.

Following are I think valid points ..

- The opportunity cost of time lost due to retrogression does not create a 'win win' outcome for the economy, the applicant and the petitioner

- The actual cost of time and labor spent in following up on retrogression related concerns is time taken away from 'social value add' - like volunteering, fund raising, etc.


We agree, Senators agree as shown by the passage of CIR and S1916 in Dec but the House doesn't. Especially people like Tancredo and all ...

What to do ...

These are mainly macro economics theories which are supposed to help the economy in general but politics especially the short term ones (which seems to be the main concern and focus of House) seems to care more about their vote bank and people's sentiments about issues as opposed to Macro-Economic principals. Besides you may argue only so much about how much growth is good for this country. In fact they are trying to slow down the economy by increasing interest rates in the guise of inflation control. A country can take only so much growth ...

Again the big tumbling block is House. I hope something like Mike Pence's middle ground takes hold quickly and we see some progress on CIR and legal issues at the same time ...

for_gc

eb3_nepa
06-12-2006, 06:15 PM
Just out of curiosity. How many non-Indian members do we have on IV?

This is simply out of curiosity coz often whenever i read about the anti immigrants opposing legal immigration reform for software related jobs, Indians get the BULK of the cussing.

Please do not get me wrong anyone, I am all for IV being much more than an Indian group. I am just trying to figure out what the country-wise membership stats are on IV.

GCwaitforever
06-12-2006, 06:30 PM
It should not matter what proportion Indians make up. We are trying to build a diverse group of EB immigrants here. Contributions are coming from everybody. Please see from a generalized point of view, when you put forth any solution/proposals on the forum.

franklin
06-12-2006, 09:06 PM
It should not matter what proportion Indians make up. We are trying to build a diverse group of EB immigrants here. Contributions are coming from everybody. Please see from a generalized point of view, when you put forth any solution/proposals on the forum.

hear hear!

The point I'm trying to make that we must remain united to reach a goal, and comments that exclude some are not exactly tempting them to join the fight.

bkam
06-13-2006, 05:14 AM
hear hear!

The point I'm trying to make that we must remain united to reach a goal, and comments that exclude some are not exactly tempting them to join the fight.
We either keep the image of the IV as a multi cultural immigrant organization and fight to achieve our goals or rename it to IIV (Indian Immigration Voice) and deal with the Indian immigration issues only. Although all Indians, the IV core group maintained a multi-cultural approach until now and we should keep it this way. United we can achieve more and it would benefit everyone.

admin
06-13-2006, 10:50 AM
Immigration Voice represents high skilled immigrants from all countries. Much of our success can be attributable to how we have been able to convince that it is in the national interest of US to make the Green Card process easier. Here is a document that we have used for this purpose - http://immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71&Itemid=36

By highlighting only one particular country's immigrants, it will be very tough to use this national interest line of reasoning and our cause will become fodder fuel for the anti-immigrants. A large number of our members and our contributors are from various countries(we don't have exact statistics). By being united, our voice becomes stronger.

priderock
06-13-2006, 12:55 PM
As if it is going to work !!!

Good luck trying..... (I worte a lot of stuff but deleted all of it, because this does'nt work either)


Hi,

Considering the compelling power of 'numbers', can we publish a thread of compelling statistics showing the economic 'value add' by immigrants of Indian origin in the US? (IIO - Immigrants of Indian Origin)

It would be helpful to parse the current immigration debate and differentiate between ILLEGAL IMMIGR & LEGAL IMMIGR..

How about trying to get some of the following numbers?
- Average household income of IIO?
- % of hi-tech startups founded by IIO?
- % of Venture Capitalist partners who are IIO?
- Number of jobs created by companies founded by IIO?
- Number of companies funded by IIO Venture Capitalists?
- Average wage range of a H1-B worker? (Safely assume as 75K - 110K p.a.)
- $$$ contribution to Social Security and Medicare, as an aggregate across IIO and those awaiting immigration?
- % contribution to Social Security and Medicare, normalized to the total base wages of persons of Indian origin?
- % of US Masters and PhD students who would become IIO if the process were smoother?
- % of Spelling Bee contestants who are of Indian origin, over the last 5 years? (Seriously!!)
- Number of IIO that contribute to state and city government?

If we could contact the Top 10 immigration law firms, we might be able to get the above statistics. Once we have these hard numbers in hand, it is going to be a little easier to get lawmakers' attention.

Further:
- The opportunity cost of time lost due to retrogression does not create a 'win win' outcome for the economy, the applicant and the petitioner

- The actual cost of time and labor spent in following up on retrogression related concerns is time taken away from 'social value add' - like volunteering, fund raising, etc.

Regards, HB