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somegchuh
07-21-2006, 01:18 PM
Guys,
I know there are a lot of ppl on this forum who have been in the US 6+ years and because of BEC/retrogression are thinking of moving to Canada. I am not suggesting that we should leave but I think its good to have a plan B.

Feel free to discuss matters like below (related to moving to Canada/Aus/India)
1. Canadian immigration process.
2. Finding jobs in canada.
3. Continuing current education (MS/MBA) in canada.
4. Operating current business from canada.
5. Move related issues: Taking household goods/cars etc.
6. Getting settled in canada.
7. Letting the GC process continue here.
8. Financial Matters: What happens to bank a/c's, 401K etc.
Anything else you can think of :-)

sina
07-21-2006, 01:23 PM
Could some one please guide me as to how to look for jobs in canada.
I am in IT and my husband is finishing up his Phd in business management.
Is there any website that one can look for jobs like monster or dice.

arsh007
07-21-2006, 01:33 PM
Why don't you start a similar forum for "going back to India" ? I hate to burst your "bubble of hope" but Canadian population and job market is limited and the opportunities for professionals like us are limited. Why not consider going back to India and taking up some of the lucrative opportunities in middle management in the IT industry.

The Indian economy is booming and the salaries are excellent. You just need to make some adjustments with quality of life (pollution, traffic). Atleast its better than going to Canada, living in limbo while looking for suitable jobs for a long-time, sometimes even doing odd jobs just to make ends meet. I hate our Indian mentality that "every place in the world is better than our own country". Give me a break guys.

My plan of action is very clear: Go back to India and live there happily. If there are other opportunities in US then come back.

Cheers.

somegchuh
07-21-2006, 01:49 PM
All I can say is that everyone has their personal reasons for the decisions they make. This thread is information exchange thread for those who are looking to move to Canada. This isn't about why one should go one place vs another.

I welcome you to start another thread where ppl can debate whether they should move to India or consider moving elsewhere. In fact, I will be happy to discuss the options there. But I request ppl to not divert the focus of this thread.

Why don't you start a similar forum for "going back to India" ? I hate to burst your "bubble of hope" but Canadian population and job market is limited and the opportunities for professionals like us are limited. Why not consider going back to India and taking up some of the lucrative opportunities in middle management in the IT industry.

The Indian economy is booming and the salaries are excellent. You just need to make some adjustments with quality of life (pollution, traffic). Atleast its better than going to Canada, living in limbo while looking for suitable jobs for a long-time, sometimes even doing odd jobs just to make ends meet. I hate our Indian mentality that "every place in the world is better than our own country". Give me a break guys.

My plan of action is very clear: Go back to India and live there happily. If there are other opportunities in US then come back.

Cheers.

mihird
07-21-2006, 01:52 PM
I first immigrated to Canada, got my citizenship and then came here to the US and am languishing in this stupid GC queue for the past 7 years..

Inspite of all the freedom to go back to Canada, I would now, rather move back to India than any other place...

Forget the little hardships in India..what matters is that India's IT economy is booming...booming like probably no where else in the world!

Why not, go back there, repay the country that gave me all the skills in the first place, and at the same time participate in that booming economy?

TheOmbudsman
07-21-2006, 02:03 PM
I agree.
I lived in Canada for a year. I also worked in my own country before coming to the US. At least in my experience and from talking to dozens of friends in Canada, my home country offers more potential for revenue than Canada. You will see it when you move there.

I will never forget when I landed in Canada in Toronto back in 1998, I met a girl at the airport and many at the Hostelling International who told me lots of stories on why I should go to the US instead. That particular girl was living in the US illegally.

I am sorry to tell you that leaving the US and going to Canada may not be a solid plan B.
Why don't you start a similar forum for "going back to

India" ? I hate to burst your "bubble of hope" but Canadian population and job market is limited and the opportunities for professionals like us are limited. Why not consider going back to India and taking up some of the lucrative opportunities in middle management in the IT industry.

The Indian economy is booming and the salaries are excellent. You just need to make some adjustments with quality of life (pollution, traffic). Atleast its better than going to Canada, living in limbo while looking for suitable jobs for a long-time, sometimes even doing odd jobs just to make ends meet. I hate our Indian mentality that "every place in the world is better than our own country". Give me a break guys.

My plan of action is very clear: Go back to India and live there happily. If there are other opportunities in US then come back.

Cheers.

TheOmbudsman
07-21-2006, 02:04 PM
Well,that's fine then. Let's see how posts you will get saying how to find good jobs in Canada. Bye.

All I can say is that everyone has their personal reasons for the decisions they make. This thread is information exchange thread for those who are looking to move to Canada. This isn't about why one should go one place vs another.

I welcome you to start another thread where ppl can debate whether they should move to India or consider moving elsewhere. In fact, I will be happy to discuss the options there. But I request ppl to not divert the focus of this thread.

xu1
07-21-2006, 02:05 PM
I first immigrated to Canada, got my citizenship and then came here to the US and am languishing in this stupid GC queue for the past 7 years..

Inspite of all the freedom to go back to Canada, I would now, rather move back to India than any other place...

Forget the little hardships in India..what matters is that India's IT economy is booming...booming like probably no where else in the world!

Why not, go back there, repay the country that gave me all the skills in the first place, and at the same time participate in that booming economy?
I agree with the sentiment. But the reality is many immigrants who evaluate the canadian option would want the paperwork that you have. Don't indian citizens, like the Chinese, require a visa to visit EU countries, commonwealth countries such as Australia, Fiji, the carribeans, pretty much anywhere in the world? Especially the more entrepreneurial ones amongst us all would want easy access to western markets and eastern talent pools. Sure it's still manageable to foresake what you got here, but I really want easy travel documents and the freedom to choose where I live and work.

There's no need to discourage people who choose to want to stay in the western hemisphere for a little longer.

yabadaba
07-21-2006, 02:13 PM
those who want to go to india...please do so

jobs in canada website:

http://www.workopolis.ca

for immigration:

it looks like they look at every case individually, in fact they recommend writing letters explaining a particular situation of concern (like work history gap, or u are not getting a letter from your current company right now because of blah blah reason)

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/index.html

sina
07-21-2006, 02:15 PM
I agree with somegchuh. This is for discussing the issues that somegchuh listed. People interested in talking about - which is better, immigrating to canda or going back to india can discuss this in a separete thread.

GCard_Dream
07-21-2006, 02:30 PM
It is very unfortunate that people equate job opportunities to the population of the country. If that were the case then India and China would have the most job opportunities in the world because they account for one third of the world population but that's not really the case otherwise we all wouldn't be here in the first place.

Opportunities are defined and provided by the economy. When you compare Canada to US, you might say that it's a smaller economy but remember Canada is a G8 country with such a strong economy that most other countries in the world can only dream of. US is the richest country in the world with the strongest economy so obviously other countries don't offer quite the same opportunities but Canada offers things that has become a dream for many of us... to be a citizen of the country where to permanently reside. Canada offers stability, certainty, hope for the future, and and an opportunity for everyone in your family to realilze their dreams as opposed to sitting at home for years doing nothing hoping that one day that EAD will come. Canada respects immigrants and welcomes them with an open arm quite contrary to policies in US where you are allowed to work but your family is not and even you are kept on the state of limbo for years and years wondering what your future holds in years to come. And better yet, you abide by the laws, pay taxes, do everything by the book yet the guy who just walked across the border has much better chances of becoming a permanent resident than you. Where is the respect and fairness for law abiding folks? That my friend is what is different with Canada. You get treated with respect and dignity and you get to decide what your future holds and not the US government.

Good Luck to you all.



Why don't you start a similar forum for "going back to India" ? I hate to burst your "bubble of hope" but Canadian population and job market is limited and the opportunities for professionals like us are limited. Why not consider going back to India and taking up some of the lucrative opportunities in middle management in the IT industry.

arsh007
07-21-2006, 02:42 PM
I hate to disappoint you but there have been several instances of highly qualified IT professionals living in the US for a number of years who decide to jump the bandwagon and migrate to Canada due to the GC limbo. What happened to them ? Well some of them struggled to get the right jobs for a number of years before giving up, returning to India and finally taking up highly paid and respected IT middle or senior management positions.

Three of my friends went through such "stressful" experiences and now are happily working back in India. They still regret the decision to put their valuable $$$ into migrating to Canada, living in limbo for a few years while trying to get a compatible job in India and finally going back to India.


It is very unfortunate that people equate job opportunities to the population of the country. If that were the case then India and China would have the most job opportunities in the world because they account for one third of the world population but that's not really the case otherwise we all would't be here in the first place.

Opportunities are defined and provided by the economy. When you compare Canada to US, you might say that it's a smaller economy but remember Canada is a G8 country with such a strong economy that most other countries in the world can only dream of. US is the richest country in the world with the strongest economy so obviously other countries don't offer quite the same opportunities but Canada offers things that has become a dream for many of us... to be a citizen of the country where to permanently reside. Canada offers stability, certainty, hope for the future, and and an opportunity for everyone in your family to realilze their dreams as opposed to sitting at home for years doing nothing hoping that one day that EAD will come. Canada respects immigrants and welcomes them with an open arm quite contrary to policies in US where you are allowed to work but your family is not and even you are kept on the state of limbo for years and years wondering what your future holds in years to come. And better yet, you abide by the laws, pay taxes, do everything by the book yet the guy who just walked across the border has much better chances of becoming a permanent resident than you. Where is the respect and fairness for law abiding folks? That my friend is what is different with Canada. You get treated with respect and dignity and you get to decide what your future holds and not the US government.

Good Luck to you all.

yabadaba
07-21-2006, 03:41 PM
can we at least get the facts please before the naysayers votes us down?

I had a question.

It says u need a police certificate for the application:

do u request it before or after the application has been submitted?

also

do u need one from every place u have lived in since u were 18?

does it apply for ur spouse?

how can i get a certificate from india and dxb

njdude26
07-21-2006, 03:51 PM
Police certificate. All I did was to go to the Consulate in NY and get a police certificate. it was a one day job.can we at least get the facts please before the naysayers votes us down?

I had a question.

It says u need a police certificate for the application:

do u request it before or after the application has been submitted?

also

do u need one from every place u have lived in since u were 18?

does it apply for ur spouse?

how can i get a certificate from india and dxb

njdude26
07-21-2006, 03:56 PM
In my case im here working for a canadian company with offices both in US and Canada. So Im moving to Canada in Oct to maintain my PR card. But you may ask why I need to maintain it and just not continue here filing 1 year h1s !!
costs 3k+ for the company every year !
also you never know when the rules here will change and i will get a gc or the rules may change in such a way that i will never get a gc.. so if i atleast have a canadian PR card and then may be become a canadian citizen i can come back here and work on a TN visa or whatever...

and also for now i will be maintaining my H1 atleats for another 1 1/2 years by getting paid here in the US. I will use my friends address here as my address and i will be telecommuting from Canada. i know i will have to pay US taxes + canadian taxes (additional). Anyone else doing this ?

Big reason im staying in North America is Health reasons...

Alabaman
07-21-2006, 04:10 PM
thanks y'ba for pointing that out. Not everybody is IT. I always read of Oil boom in Calgary and I am thinking of moving there. I am a Process Engr.

can we at least get the facts please before the naysayers votes us down? significant % of us are not IT folks

yabadaba
07-21-2006, 04:30 PM
alabaman dude i would be out on the next plane...thats where i m looking to move also..calgary or edmonton.

thx njdude...by consulate u meant indian consulate?

Lasantha
07-21-2006, 04:49 PM
Hi Yabadaba,

Try this forum http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=33 for all your questions on Canadian immigration. This has lots of usefull information. When you post a question, post it to the attention of Mr Andrew Miller. He is a immigration consultant who provides free advise on that forum and responds pretty fast.
Best of luck !

Lasantha

canadaPR
07-21-2006, 10:18 PM
I am from India and I have worked in the USA for the last 6 years. I have immigrated to Canada with a Job 6 months back to avoid overystaying. My experience in Canada is very bad. I am a MCAD and Sun Certifitied Developer having more than 8 years experience. I am looking for a job for more than 3 months in Canada and still not able to get a job. There is lots of racism here and people are not polite. I have been regularly applying for .NET jobs and the response is very bad. Maybe because I am from India. Try avoiding Canada as much as you can.

Alabaman
07-21-2006, 10:52 PM
What part of Canada did you move to?

I am from India and I have worked in the USA for the last 6 years. I have immigrated to Canada with a Job 6 months back to avoid overystaying. My experience in Canada is very bad. I am a MCAD and Sun Certifitied Developer having more than 8 years experience. I am looking for a job for more than 3 months in Canada and still not able to get a job. There is lots of racism here and people are not polite. I have been regularly applying for .NET jobs and the response is very bad. Maybe because I am from India. Try avoiding Canada as much as you can.

dixie
07-22-2006, 11:41 AM
I am from India and I have worked in the USA for the last 6 years. I have immigrated to Canada with a Job 6 months back to avoid overystaying. My experience in Canada is very bad. I am a MCAD and Sun Certifitied Developer having more than 8 years experience. I am looking for a job for more than 3 months in Canada and still not able to get a job. There is lots of racism here and people are not polite. I have been regularly applying for .NET jobs and the response is very bad. Maybe because I am from India. Try avoiding Canada as much as you can.

Which part of Canada are you talking about ? you may be right about the difficulty in finding jobs, but the "politeness" and "racism" part I just dont understand. From my experience of canada (BC and ontario) I can say on the whole people there were much more polite and helpful than anywhere in the US. As for racism, it exists in every country - even in the US, especially in rural areas of the south.

softwareguy
07-22-2006, 11:51 AM
You will never be as good!!!
Life is different, if you are not a tourist. Try working with them day in day out. And I m talking about Toronto.

Experiences of friends says - blue collar, jobs that Canadian do not want to do you, you are more than welcome.
But dont ever try to get a White collar job... And if you want to - work as Software engineer - and forget of any career development....

Again -
http://www.notcanada.com
http://www.canadaimmigrants.com

nozerd
07-22-2006, 01:39 PM
Here is what people forget in this debate. They point out disadvantages of Canada over US. Fewer jobs, High taxes, extreme cold etc.

No doubt US is better than Canada for most people. That is why US is our first choice and Canada is backup - not the other way around.

We arent talking about people who have a choice here. If you had choice between US GC and Canadian PR we would always choose US blind folded.

But we are people without much choice. Yes we have choice to go back to India, and it may be a good choice for thoise who have come recently and have work exp in India. But some of us have spent 10 plus yrs in the US, have US degrees, never worked in India etc. For us it is extremely difficult to move back to India when we dont have a days work exp there. Ofcourse if you are SC/ST or OBC o reserved category your kids have great future there but not for other "normal" people.

So what other choice do we have. Well English speaking countries you can migrate to and who are taking people as PR's are:

1) CANADA
2) AUSTRALIA
3) NEW ZEALAND
4) SINGAPORE
5) UK.

UK is very difficult to go to as PR. The points required are extremely high. Unless you have MBA from top 10 school or make over 100 K it is difficult.

Singapore is a good option also, but cost of living is high and you can only apply for PR after working in Singapore for 3 plus yrs. Also Singapore is not a democracy.

New Zealand economy is 10 times worse than Canada

That leaves Australia and Canada. Well Canada is closer to US, but Australia has better weather. Canada is less racist but Australia has cricket :).

So bottom line is conduct this discussion as if US is not the option. If we could stay here with PR for sure we wouldnt even be having this discussion.

dixie
07-22-2006, 02:22 PM
You will never be as good!!!
Life is different, if you are not a tourist. Try working with them day in day out. And I m talking about Toronto.

Experiences of friends says - blue collar, jobs that Canadian do not want to do you, you are more than welcome.
But dont ever try to get a White collar job... And if you want to - work as Software engineer - and forget of any career development....

Again -
http://www.notcanada.com
http://www.canadaimmigrants.com

My company has offices in both canada(toronto and vancouver) and US .. i have worked for extended periods of time in canada. I agree that career development opps are limited due to economic reasons, but there is no way toronto or vancouver is any more racist than atlanta or miami. Who said there is no discrimination against white collar workers in the US as well .. if not how do you explain so many people supporting illegal aliens, but nobody breathing a word about us ? Lets face it , the corporates here need us but many native born white collar workers actively hate us. Thats how you have so much opposition to H1-B and EB visas from the likes of programmer's guild and other labor unions.

njdude26
07-22-2006, 02:34 PM
I would agree with this. My company is run by canadians. If there was any growth restrictions today i would not be the head of s/w development...

just because there is one bad fruit you dont throw the entire basket out...


My company has offices in both canada(toronto and vancouver) and US .. i have worked for extended periods of time in canada. I agree that career development opps are limited due to economic reasons, but there is no way toronto or vancouver is any more racist than atlanta or miami. Who said there is no discrimination against white collar workers in the US as well .. if not how do you explain so many people supporting illegal aliens, but nobody breathing a word about us ? Lets face it , the corporates here need us but many native born white collar workers actively hate us. Thats how you have so much opposition to H1-B and EB visas from the likes of programmer's guild and other labor unions.

somegchuh
07-22-2006, 02:40 PM
That's exactly my point. I am not saying one should not go to India. Canada is really an option for those who have spent a significant part of life in US and for personal reasons would like to live in Canada.

That having been said, I would lile to hear experiences from those who have moved to canada or who have "real" friends who have moved from US. I am not interested in hearsay.

If you have moved from US to canada and had a bad experience please post it because we should know what to be prepared for.

I have heard the following -ve things about canada.
1. Smaller economy
2. Fewer IT jobs
3. Require licensure in other fields
I think the above are true but I want to hear real stories.
1. What kind of software co.s are there.
2. What kind of IT support organizations(bank/healthcare/manufacturing) are there.
3. What skill sets are in demand.
4. How hard is it to land interviews.
5. What kind of interviews can one expect

What are the +ve things about canada?
1. Freedom to choose profession
2. Freedom for wife to worl
3. Cheaper housing.
4. Anything else?

Let's keep the ideas flowing ....


Here is what people forget in this debate. They point out disadvantages of Canada over US. Fewer jobs, High taxes, extreme cold etc.

No doubt US is better than Canada for most people. That is why US is our first choice and Canada is backup - not the other way around.

We arent talking about people who have a choice here. If you had choice between US GC and Canadian PR we would always choose US blind folded.

But we are people without much choice. Yes we have choice to go back to India, and it may be a good choice for thoise who have come recently and have work exp in India. But some of us have spent 10 plus yrs in the US, have US degrees, never worked in India etc. For us it is extremely difficult to move back to India when we dont have a days work exp there. Ofcourse if you are SC/ST or OBC o reserved category your kids have great future there but not for other "normal" people.

So what other choice do we have. Well English speaking countries you can migrate to and who are taking people as PR's are:

1) CANADA
2) AUSTRALIA
3) NEW ZEALAND
4) SINGAPORE
5) UK.

UK is very difficult to go to as PR. The points required are extremely high. Unless you have MBA from top 10 school or make over 100 K it is difficult.

Singapore is a good option also, but cost of living is high and you can only apply for PR after working in Singapore for 3 plus yrs. Also Singapore is not a democracy.

New Zealand economy is 10 times worse than Canada

That leaves Australia and Canada. Well Canada is closer to US, but Australia has better weather. Canada is less racist but Australia has cricket :).

So bottom line is conduct this discussion as if US is not the option. If we could stay here with PR for sure we wouldnt even be having this discussion.

dixie
07-22-2006, 02:41 PM
You will never be as good!!!
Life is different, if you are not a tourist. Try working with them day in day out. And I m talking about Toronto.

Experiences of friends says - blue collar, jobs that Canadian do not want to do you, you are more than welcome.
But dont ever try to get a White collar job... And if you want to - work as Software engineer - and forget of any career development....

Again -
http://www.notcanada.com
http://www.canadaimmigrants.com

My company has offices in both canada(toronto and vancouver) and US .. i have worked for extended periods of time in canada. I agree that career development oppourtunities are limited due to economic reasons, but I there is no way toronto or vancouver can be considered "racist". And talking of high skilled workers, who said there is absolutely no discrimination in the US ? Isnt that what programmers guild and other labor unions are all about ? how come so many people support the blue collar illegal aliens (mostly meat-packers and lettuce pickers), but nobody cares about us, tax-paying, law-abiding highly skilled people ?

The difference is at least the canadian immigration policy doesnt institutionalize the discrimination by making us wait in limbo forever, unlike the US laws. At the end of the day, I would rather live with "limited career development" opportunity in canada and change employers at will than be surrounded by plenty of such opportunity but have my hands tied behind my back by the US laws.

As for "discrimination", we as immigrants always will have to bear with some discrimination,subtle or overt, from the native-born white collar workers whether in the US or anywhere else in the developed world. Our home country is the only one where you can expect to go and join the workforce without discrimination.

ujjvalkoul
07-24-2006, 11:43 AM
Guys,

I applied in Feb 2006..My H1 Expired in Dec 2006. Canada ppl came back saying H1 should be valid for at least 1 year.

Now when I get my H extension and reapply - can I use the same Police clearance from Indian Embassy and FBI that was sent in Feb 2006?

ANy clues?

Lasantha
07-24-2006, 12:19 PM
ujjvalkoul

Try this forum. It's a better source of information on Canadian immigartion.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=33

Good Luck!

Madhuri
07-24-2006, 12:46 PM
People with grown up kids, I guess would prefer Canada over India. There are many problems starting with the education system, reservations etc. For kids who had been studying here from KG through grade 8-9 it's difficult to get dragged in the rat race in India, especially for normal kids who don't belong to any reservation category.

Yes in Canada we know that finding a job is going to be difficult and we should brain-storm about how to tackle this problem?
What skillsets are in demand? Anybody has idea?

I also have a wild idea like US companies may look at Canada as a outsourcing destination if given very competitive package. One of the biggest advantage will be proximity to the US, so better control over quality etc. That may not turn into a big boom but is a possibility.

My company has offices in both canada(toronto and vancouver) and US .. i have worked for extended periods of time in canada. I agree that career development oppourtunities are limited due to economic reasons, but I there is no way toronto or vancouver can be considered "racist". And talking of high skilled workers, who said there is absolutely no discrimination in the US ? Isnt that what programmers guild and other labor unions are all about ? how come so many people support the blue collar illegal aliens (mostly meat-packers and lettuce pickers), but nobody cares about us, tax-paying, law-abiding highly skilled people ?

The difference is at least the canadian immigration policy doesnt institutionalize the discrimination by making us wait in limbo forever, unlike the US laws. At the end of the day, I would rather live with "limited career development" opportunity in canada and change employers at will than be surrounded by plenty of such opportunity but have my hands tied behind my back by the US laws.

As for "discrimination", we as immigrants always will have to bear with some discrimination,subtle or overt, from the native-born white collar workers whether in the US or anywhere else in the developed world. Our home country is the only one where you can expect to go and join the workforce without discrimination.

zigma
08-01-2006, 08:29 AM
Looking at this scenario, it makes all the more sense to move to Canada.
Unless US starts skilled immigration, it is destined to become a 3rd world country. China would overtake it as the largest economy.
It is estimated that in about 20-30 years the worker:retiree ratio would be 2:1, thereby having a large tax on the employed.

There are lots of interesting articles on this subject.
Example of an interesting article (http://www.parapundit.com/archives/002004.html)

dixie
08-01-2006, 12:06 PM
People with grown up kids, I guess would prefer Canada over India. There are many problems starting with the education system, reservations etc. For kids who had been studying here from KG through grade 8-9 it's difficult to get dragged in the rat race in India, especially for normal kids who don't belong to any reservation category.

Yes in Canada we know that finding a job is going to be difficult and we should brain-storm about how to tackle this problem?
What skillsets are in demand? Anybody has idea?

I also have a wild idea like US companies may look at Canada as a outsourcing destination if given very competitive package. One of the biggest advantage will be proximity to the US, so better control over quality etc. That may not turn into a big boom but is a possibility.

I think the said "outsourcing" is already happening to a limited degree .. in fact many IT jobs in Canada are nothing but canadian offices of US firms. But it is never going to reach the extent of India or China, mainly because the savings in terms of cost are not as big.

The biggest problem I find with the canadian job market is limited demand for highly specialized IT skills .. so finding any job will not be a problem; but finding one commensurate with your qualifications and experience will be hard.Secondly, there are fewer tech centers than the US .. so one cannot afford to be too fussy about location etc. As far as I know, only Toronto and surrounding areas in Ontario would qualify as a "tech hub" in the US sense.

gsc999
08-01-2006, 01:25 PM
People with grown up kids, I guess would prefer Canada over India. There are many problems starting with the education system, reservations etc. For kids who had been studying here from KG through grade 8-9 it's difficult to get dragged in the rat race in India, especially for normal kids who don't belong to any reservation category.

I also have a wild idea like US companies may look at Canada as a outsourcing destination if given very competitive package. One of the biggest advantage will be proximity to the US, so better control over quality etc. That may not turn into a big boom but is a possibility.
-----
I am not sure if you are aware of NAFTA, it was a trade aggrement that was suppose to be the equivalent of EU in terms of trade. It failed because low-cost manufacturing took flight from Mexico to China and similar scenario for software from US/Canada to India. This trend is not going to reverse in next few years. Exceptions will always be there.

Service sector already accounts for 40 to 50% of Indian GDP and will keep growing. Based on these facts it is obvious that long term economic prospects are better in India/ China, since you are looking from your children's perspective.

Also, you mention issues about Indian education system. I disagree. There are problems with American education system also. You can't generalize. If your kids are smart they can get into better colleges like IITs etc. I think you are confusing the issue about adaptability with good future prospects.

One last thing about issues. It would be good to let your kids decide what skils they are interested in learning, most Indian parents live their own dreams through their kids. Just a suggestion :)

nozerd
08-01-2006, 01:49 PM
If you have kids then its easy to move to India before the Kid goes to 2nd or 3rd grade ie before they are 8 or 9 yrs old. After that there is no way you can take a kid out of school in US and expect them to be competitive in India.
This is based on US public school system standards (if you are homeschooling its different). I had friends when I was in India who had lived all their lives in Middle Eastern countries and even though they had studied in Indian system they felt it difficult to compete there.

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I am not sure if you are aware of NAFTA, it was a trade aggrement that was suppose to be the equivalent of EU in terms of trade. It failed because low-cost manufacturing took flight from Mexico to China and similar scenario for software from US/Canada to India. This trend is not going to reverse in next few years. Exceptions will always be there.

Service sector already accounts for 40 to 50% of Indian GDP and will keep growing. Based on these facts it is obvious that long term economic prospects are better in India/ China, since you are looking from your children's perspective.

Also, you mention issues about Indian education system. I disagree. There are problems with American education system also. You can't generalize. If your kids are smart they can get into better colleges like IITs etc. I think you are confusing the issue about adaptability with good future prospects.

One last thing about issues. It would be good to let your kids decide what skils they are interested in learning, most Indian parents live their own dreams through their kids. Just a suggestion :)

nixstor
08-01-2006, 02:06 PM
You can't generalize. If your kids are smart they can get into better colleges like IITs etc. I think you are confusing the issue about adaptability with good future prospects.

Wait a second. If you are not adaptable to the new environment, it becomes a rat race.If the situation is not conducive, your smartness aint gonna help. I think thats what the OP clearly meant. Its not easy for a kid who is in 8th grade in US to snugly fit into Indian System. Coming to the IIT's, Have you ever compared the total number of seats available in IIT's to the accepted numbers from IVY leagues and other big schools. In India, you have to be the best among the best to get into IIT's. You have to be best here and oh yeah.. You dont have to lose some of the smartness to reservations. But I agree with you that parents should let children pursue their own interests rather than thinking about him/her being a doc/eng.

yabadaba
08-01-2006, 02:14 PM
You can't generalize. If your kids are smart they can get into better colleges like IITs etc. I think you are confusing the issue about adaptability with good future prospects.

Wait a second. If you are not adaptable to the new environment, it becomes a rat race.If the situation is not conducive, your smartness aint gonna help. I think thats what the OP clearly meant. Its not easy for a kid who is in 8th grade in US to snugly fit into Indian System. Coming to the IIT's, Have you ever compared the total number of seats available in IIT's to the accepted numbers from IVY leagues and other big schools. In India, you have to be the best among the best to get into IIT's. You have to be best here and oh yeah.. You dont have to lose some of the smartness to reservations. But I agree with you that parents should let children pursue their own interests rather than thinking about him/her being a doc/eng.

What is your point? Madhuri just said that when kids are 8-9 years old it is easier for them to adapt to the canadian system rather than the indian system. No one said that the indian system is not up to the standard.

Having studied in every single indian board system, state, cbse and icse along with primary education the london board (o/a level), I have some experience with regards to adaptability-> It sucks. I have a abcd friend who moved from US to india while in the 6th grade and she regrets those two years of her life. If you have kids in school over here please think 3 times before u shuttle them back and forth.

qualified_trash
08-01-2006, 02:22 PM
You can't generalize. If your kids are smart they can get into better colleges like IITs etc. I think you are confusing the issue about adaptability with good future prospects.

Wait a second. If you are not adaptable to the new environment, it becomes a rat race.If the situation is not conducive, your smartness aint gonna help. I think thats what the OP clearly meant. Its not easy for a kid who is in 8th grade in US to snugly fit into Indian System. Coming to the IIT's, Have you ever compared the total number of seats available in IIT's to the accepted numbers from IVY leagues and other big schools. In India, you have to be the best among the best to get into IIT's. You have to be best here and oh yeah.. You dont have to lose some of the smartness to reservations. But I agree with you that parents should let children pursue their own interests rather than thinking about him/her being a doc/eng.
DISCLAIMER: SPECIFIC TO THE INDIAN EDUCATION SYSTEM

I am sorry but I disagree with the "best among the best" comment. To equate success in the IIT entrance exam to being the best is a mistake. Success in the entrance exams to those Insititutions comes from focus and hard work. This does not necessarily mean that the people who go there are the best. They ARE definitely the best at preparing for the exam.

dixie
08-01-2006, 02:48 PM
DISCLAIMER: SPECIFIC TO THE INDIAN EDUCATION SYSTEM

I am sorry but I disagree with the "best among the best" comment. To equate success in the IIT entrance exam to being the best is a mistake. Success in the entrance exams to those Insititutions comes from focus and hard work. This does not necessarily mean that the people who go there are the best. They ARE definitely the best at preparing for the exam.

Keeping debates on "education standards" aside, from a middle-school student's perspective its definitely not easy to get into a decent higher educational institute in India; what with reservations and the enormous competition . We cannot deny that higher education opportunities are definitely better(though more expensive) in the developed countries.

Madhuri
08-01-2006, 02:49 PM
Exactly! You can not expect them to do equally well in Indian school system as what they are performing in US. The school system focus is completely different and there is no easy way out for kids/parents to adapt to it. I am not criticizing either school systems. Both of them have pros and cons. And all this discussion holds true when you have option to move to Canada. If you don't, then it's better to pack before the kids grow older.If you have kids then its easy to move to India before the Kid goes to 2nd or 3rd grade ie before they are 8 or 9 yrs old. After that there is no way you can take a kid out of school in US and expect them to be competitive in India.
This is based on US public school system standards (if you are homeschooling its different). I had friends when I was in India who had lived all their lives in Middle Eastern countries and even though they had studied in Indian system they felt it difficult to compete there.

somegchuh
08-01-2006, 02:57 PM
Guys,

I think we are getting sidetracked here. I think the question for most people who have spend over 6 years in US is that:

1. Education is very different in US/canada compared to India/Asia. Its geared towards creativity as opposed to rote learning. It will take a lot of time to adpat to that system.
2. The competition is definitely way tougher in India/Asia.
3. An average kid has better chances at a financially successful life in canada than in India/Asia.

Coming to the question of ourselves as adults finding jobs in canada ...
I think its definitely going to be easier to find jobs in Bangalore than in Toronto. Offcourse, comparing canadian market to US is pointless. We know US market is way better. Then again we are just talking software jobs. If you keep your mind open to any type of management position or business opportunity I think you will have better opportunity in Canada than elsewhere in India.

Does anyone know of any discussion forums of software guys who have moved from US to canada?


DISCLAIMER: SPECIFIC TO THE INDIAN EDUCATION SYSTEM

I am sorry but I disagree with the "best among the best" comment. To equate success in the IIT entrance exam to being the best is a mistake. Success in the entrance exams to those Insititutions comes from focus and hard work. This does not necessarily mean that the people who go there are the best. They ARE definitely the best at preparing for the exam.

nozerd
08-01-2006, 02:59 PM
I would say even Canadian system of education is different from US. However difference in Canada is 10% v/s difference with India is 80%.
Remember Canada is Commonwealth country and ex British Colony and their education system is amalagmation of British and US systems. So even in Canaz they will prounces Z as Zed and not as Zee as in US. They will also write cheque and not check.
Canada educational system standards are high. In Canada public school is free like US but it goes beyond US in that even school supplies are free. You pay nothing for pen, book, paper or anything used in the classroom.
Also in Canad there are public Catholic schools where school is run by Catholics but with government aid so you pay nothing. Something like private school with no fees. or your Indian convent schools which many of us may have been to.

nixstor
08-01-2006, 03:18 PM
I am trying to underscore the point that "Smart kids doesnt necessarily need to get into IIT's, if they are US implants in India during their early teens or around 8th grade. There is a better chance that they will end up in Ivy leagues or what ever you consider equivalent of IIT's here"

I concur with the opinion of getting into IIT's is not a bench mark for success. It depends on what a person considers success. As far as "Best among best" is concerned, I used it only to compare the number of seats available for equally intelligent students in India and US. A student in India with similar aptitude, IQ and what ever comparable metrics has lesser chances of accomplishing what a student accomplishes in the US. let it be getting into IIT's or Ivy leagues.

HTH