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vejella
12-13-2007, 04:56 PM
All,

With the current rate of outsourcing happening around in US and the rate of influx of temporary workers coming in on mostly L1 and may be few on H1 B Visas every year through the outsourcing companies , i am sceptical about the future of GC aspirants. With the way of GC processing happening which are caused by restrictions /policies of governing bodies and no sight of positive relief in near future i am little apprehensive about the future.

I feel that there might be no areas that are not impacted by Outsourcing boom . Most of the companies that i see and my friends work ,i see many of the operations are outsourced or planning in place to get outsourced.

with the current rate of outsourcing and subprime mess which may cause slow down in economy , i am not sure if there would be any positions to support our AOS , when our PD becomes current. Some times i think , the fight for GC is even worth it.

Every one feel free to post your views/opinions/Analysis on this topic ....

gcformeornot
12-13-2007, 05:10 PM
I work for a very large Auto company. Now a days most of the new guys are coming on L1 visas. They work like H1 would work at client.

The biggest thing is the work (vehicle design work) witch was considered not outsourcable till few years back started going to India. Few of the L1 do work here in day time.........send data out when its night here...... the guys who work there in India come to US for 2-3 months to get a feel of design work and then work from India....

I aggree 100% on what OP is saying.....

H1BLegal95
12-13-2007, 06:19 PM
I tried to recruit 3 guys with 7-8 yrs of experience. We already have a 12 member offshore team...the average asking rate (H1s and citizens) is 90K ..H1B quota restriction is working in our favor very much. Market rate for IT professionals has increased quite handsomely..put ur resume out to dice or monster and see for urselves.

TomPlate
12-13-2007, 06:26 PM
Outsourcing is not a good business at all. If you work for a big american consulting company it is good. My company is a big company in India, but still people in my work location think we people are contractors (cheap sweepers) and we are great workers then those people. It is all due to green card I have to stay with this company. Stop outsourcing and IT consulting companies. They never understand that computer is a scrable game.

insbaby
12-13-2007, 07:07 PM
All,
...and may be few on H1 B Visas every year through the outsourcing companies...

So, you are expecting only few H1B petitions go to USCIS in April 2008?

:)

gc_chahiye
12-13-2007, 07:18 PM
I tried to recruit 3 guys with 7-8 yrs of experience. We already have a 12 member offshore team...the average asking rate (H1s and citizens) is 90K ..H1B quota restriction is working in our favor very much. Market rate for IT professionals has increased quite handsomely..put ur resume out to dice or monster and see for urselves.

this 90k is in which part of the US? A salary number without specifying geography is pretty hard to rate :)

ZeroComplexity
12-13-2007, 07:19 PM
What I am finding is, there are not enough people to do the really complicated stuff. Because of demand and supply the salaries are going up for folks that do specialized tech work( say OS Kernel development).

Then again, nothing in this world is too difficult, so lot of this stuff is getting pushed out to development teams outside of the US, where it's cheaper to get it done. The only downside is the ramp up time.

There is a critical point when it becomes too expensive to hire anyone in the US and the folks elsewhere are sufficiently ramped up, at that point we can thank all those who are against employment based immigration and find an alternate career :)

indyanguy
12-13-2007, 07:27 PM
I tried to recruit 3 guys with 7-8 yrs of experience. We already have a 12 member offshore team...the average asking rate (H1s and citizens) is 90K ..H1B quota restriction is working in our favor very much. Market rate for IT professionals has increased quite handsomely..put ur resume out to dice or monster and see for urselves.

I don't think 90k for someone with 7-8 years of experience is high in most parts of US. Market rate for IT professionals might have increased in people working with niche technologies. But in general, I see a down trend. And with more people in the job market in Jan 08 (with AC21), I can predict the rates heading south.

venky08
12-13-2007, 07:34 PM
Your are thinking under two assumptions:

1. There is nothing left for innovation in the tech field. so no new job creation is expected in the future.

2. There will be more supply of tech workers which will surpass the job creation rate (if in any amount) thereby depressing the wages.

who is to know that your assumptions are correct? :confused:

Whereas the reality is the job creation has been exponentially growing because of emerging technologies and the will to immigrate to US is surely on decrease and add reverse brain drain to it. So for next 5-10 years it will become increasingly difficult to find talented people as they will be evaporated from the market because of 65K H1B cap for last 3 years and a huge outflux of talented professionals.

I said this before in my previous posts and i will say it again. I you are worth your salt and know what you are doing, you will be worth your weight in gold in coming years. Stick to the fight and get your GC. :cool:

(BTW, for these opinions, i am inspired by a recent book i read on globalization- The world is Flat by Thomas Friedman. I think it shall be a must read for every H1B to GC applicant)


All,

With the current rate of outsourcing happening around in US and the rate of influx of temporary workers coming in on mostly L1 and may be few on H1 B Visas every year through the outsourcing companies , i am sceptical about the future of GC aspirants. With the way of GC processing happening which are caused by restrictions /policies of governing bodies and no sight of positive relief in near future i am little apprehensive about the future.

I feel that there might be no areas that are not impacted by Outsourcing boom . Most of the companies that i see and my friends work ,i see many of the operations are outsourced or planning in place to get outsourced.

with the current rate of outsourcing and subprime mess which may cause slow down in economy , i am not sure if there would be any positions to support our AOS , when our PD becomes current. Some times i think , the fight for GC is even worth it.

Every one feel free to post your views/opinions/Analysis on this topic ....

nlssubbu
12-13-2007, 07:42 PM
What I am finding is, there are not enough people to do the really complicated stuff. Because of demand and supply the salaries are going up for folks that do specialized tech work( say OS Kernel development).

Then again, nothing in this world is too difficult, so lot of this stuff is getting pushed out to development teams outside of the US, where it's cheaper to get it done. The only downside is the ramp up time.

There is a critical point when it becomes too expensive to hire anyone in the US and the folks elsewhere are sufficiently ramped up, at that point we can thank all those who are against employment based immigration and find an alternate career :)

It is also obvious that the current graduates are more reluctant to take up jobs in US or stay here for a long time due to the following:

1. Messy GC process as more students are becoming aware of the situation
2. Ability to work freely in a competitive environment
3. Boom in their home country (India and China) [A survey shows that majority of foreign students are from these countries]
4. Ability to start at higher levels over there compared to start up jobs over here
5. Can stay with family

In our team, we are trying to hire 3 full time employees in west cost with specific skill set and could not succeed for the past 6 months :( One of my friend who is leading a team, recently want to expand his team had a similar issue. He finally setup an office in India and recruited people over there.

These trends clearly indicate that US is loosing clear competitive advantage and more jobs are moving off-shore.

If for some reason I move back to India, I am sure that I will be taking away as many as 10 jobs along with me as well :)

Thanks

santiwar
12-13-2007, 07:58 PM
Being an eternal optimist, I am still hanging in there with a hope that things will change after the next Presidential elections.

Hopefully all the buzz surrounding alterantive energy will result in some sizeable investment by the government in technology if we have a democrat as a President. But if the status quo continues, they will be spending their money in building meuseums in kansas refuting the theroy of evolution and 'Intelligent Design' and other such right-wing manusha!

My point is, it aint over till the fat lady sings, and thank god Lou Dobbs can't sing (I hope) :p

vejella
12-13-2007, 10:59 PM
Venky ,

good to hear your positive approach toward future . But realistically , i wonder how long does it take for a new innovation to get outsourced . AS Narayana murthy said , there would not be anything which does not need human contact in coming future that cannot be out sourced ...(not exact words but with same intent :o



Your are thinking under two assumptions:

1. There is nothing left for innovation in the tech field. so no new job creation is expected in the future.

2. There will be more supply of tech workers which will surpass the job creation rate (if in any amount) thereby depressing the wages.

who is to know that your assumptions are correct? :confused:

Whereas the reality is the job creation has been exponentially growing because of emerging technologies and the will to immigrate to US is surely on decrease and add reverse brain drain to it.
but there is increasing work force on the other side world who is dreaming to come here ...so i feel the rate of reverse brain drain will be less that influx as long as the demand exist.

So for next 5-10 years it will become increasingly difficult to find talented people as they will be evaporated from the market because of 65K H1B cap for last 3 years and a huge outflux of talented professionals.

I said this before in my previous posts and i will say it again. I you are worth your salt and know what you are doing, you will be worth your weight in gold in coming years. Stick to the fight and get your GC. :cool:

--- i should stop going to GYM so can i weigh more :o


(BTW, for these opinions, i am inspired by a recent book i read on globalization- The world is Flat by Thomas Friedman. I think it shall be a must read for every H1B to GC applicant)

gcgamble
12-13-2007, 11:14 PM
I always wonder and think what we do more that cannot be done offshore in India. As a business owner you are always concerned about bottomline. I work for IBM and I am on short assignments at different client locations, during early 2000s some offices used to have exclusive american staff (or should say white) then it was Indians on H1 Bs and now there are more Indians in offices than americans and if I check who they are, 90% of the time they are on site from a outsourcing companies. So I see that as a trend. As a CIO you got to wonder if I employ 90 out 100 of my staff who are high skilled Indians here why cant I just go to India and get them for cheap and tell my fellow CIO buddies how I saved money and how they should also do it. So it is a combination of cost benefits and chain reaction.

Even I feel what I can I do which my fellow Indian in India cant do, since considering we went to same school etc. It is not like we are inventing rockets here we are all intelligent people to some degree and hard work is part of our blood so if I can do it I bet my neighbor can also do it.I think it not far when everything repeatable will be moved to India same as why you do not find very many americans laying a optic wire cable or digging a road, but almost 100% of the time the optic fibre company boss is American and usually white.

I understand CIO line of thinking ...he may see all indians around and think of offshoring ..but he dont realize the desi consultants are here through a preferred vendor who might be american who is getting business through this placement and he might be employing one american and so the chain goes on ....But when he says to CIOs and every one start doing the same ..then after some time the Job growth decreases, so is consumer spending ...And as a result ,this CIO may be layed off ,as a part of cost cutting measures and Outsource his job too ...:D

At the same time i dont know enough to take any side between free trade and protectionism....

Redeye
12-14-2007, 12:19 AM
Understand that, but do you really think (s)he is worried about that at this moment any more than his next board meeting with the board members and CEO. Not increasing H1B quota itself and allowing lottery for highly skilled program, go figure sends some signal that they do not care if you graduate from MIT or from an unknown university in tahiti. How do you really test highly skilled??? by lottery?? dah!!!

From a senator or CIO level of view if you can get it cheap why not. It comes down to Toyota carolla or Mercedes CLS550 when you are only concerned about getting from point A to point B, enjoying the ride is not in question here.

chmur
12-14-2007, 12:27 AM
To highlight other point of view and keep the debate balanced... It ain't rosy on the other side(India) either.

There is a severe shortage of highly skilled personnel in India too.
For those talents , salaries have gone through the roof. Add to that rupee has appreciated a whopping 11% this year...significantly compromising cost advantage.

attrition is a problem to get anything significant done . There are many stories of companies moving out of india due to attrition.

and for those outsourcing companies like wipro , infy etc where name of the game is pure staff augumentation/outsourcing ..... immigration issues will hit their business too.


Add to that all the peripheral issues with doing business in India ....poor infrastructure, cultural issues and overhead/risk of managing distributed teams etc ...

Pure outsourcing/staff augumentation business model employed by Indian bell weather IT companies is finally being challenged.

Simply put: There ain,t free lunch, anywhere.


IMO: Purely from career standpoint , getting a greencard and staying put in US, is still the best option by a distance.

vejella
12-14-2007, 12:47 AM
Because of sudden influx of projects coming to India last year, there was a temporary upsurge in the demand for skilled personnel in india ....So there are many options for these people which caused the higher attrition as they have many options open....So temporarily these IT Companies used to retain highly skilled employees at any cost and kept them in front line and recruited some freshers (i have seen one company recruited freshers and charged them 50,000 ...you heard it right :0 initally with the commitment of 2 years).

As the freshers are catching up with the experienced ..i see a sharp decline in demand my area of expertise from past 6 months to an Year .... But from CEO point of view , still work is done ..with 40 % or more saving ..may be for little compromise on quality ....

I have a feeling that attrition rate may slow down in coming years .....

Any one please share your views /experiences ..

vejella
12-26-2007, 05:08 PM
please share comments on this topic...

Pineapple
12-26-2007, 05:35 PM
First of all, not everyone here is from India. Second, not everyone here is from programming/IT background. It is easy to make that assumption, but believe me, there are plenty of non-indians, or non-IT people, and even non-Indian, non-IT people here. :D

For these, what is or is not happening in Bangalore is completely irrelevant.
Second, people who are still here have already decided where they want to be. (Which is why they are on the forum in the first place). People change countries for more reasons than just following the next IT boom.

Anyway, regarding impact on opportunities here, there is a common misconception that companies have unlimited access to talent in other countries, and the only limiting factor is the quota of H1B visas.
Not true, by a long shot.
To give a simple example, our company is looking for people in Australia, Denmark, Finland, Canada and UK since the pool of qualified people in India has dried up in our field. Can anyone guess where is the biggest talent pool? Nope, not in Bangalore, its right here in USA!! Not all companies are looking for the cheapest person. They are looking for the best person. And in many cases, the best person is already here, and has gathered more experience over the years working for US companies. But they cannot hire her, simply because she is on a visa and thereby beholden to another company. If she had a GC, that would free up the talent pool and thereby make many companies less reliant on H1Bs. Increasing GCs for EB candidates has the same effect as increasing H1 quota, with the added benefit of making the cream of the crop available and reducing the uncertainty and hassle of hiring an H1.

When you outsource, you lose this talent pool which is already sitting in your backyard. You may still outsource, of course, but the most cost effective solution would be to hire the top talent already here. This is especially true in professions which do not work very well in outsourced situations, like business consulting, marketing, management etc.

This is why it is in the best interest of companies to support EB GCs.

gcformeornot
12-26-2007, 10:10 PM
First of all, not everyone here is from India. Second, not everyone here is from programming/IT background. It is easy to make that assumption, but believe me, there are plenty of non-indians, or non-IT people, and even non-Indian, non-IT people here. :D

For these, what is or is not happening in Bangalore is completely irrelevant.
Second, people who are still here have already decided where they want to be. (Which is why they are on the forum in the first place). People change countries for more reasons than just following the next IT boom.

Anyway, regarding impact on opportunities here, there is a common misconception that companies have unlimited access to talent in other countries, and the only limiting factor is the quota of H1B visas.
Not true, by a long shot.
To give a simple example, our company is looking for people in Australia, Denmark, Finland, Canada and UK since the pool of qualified people in India has dried up in our field. Can anyone guess where is the biggest talent pool? Nope, not in Bangalore, its right here in USA!! Not all companies are looking for the cheapest person. They are looking for the best person. And in many cases, the best person is already here, and has gathered more experience over the years working for US companies. But they cannot hire her, simply because she is on a visa and thereby beholden to another company. If she had a GC, that would free up the talent pool and thereby make many companies less reliant on H1Bs. Increasing GCs for EB candidates has the same effect as increasing H1 quota, with the added benefit of making the cream of the crop available and reducing the uncertainty and hassle of hiring an H1.

When you outsource, you lose this talent pool which is already sitting in your backyard. You may still outsource, of course, but the most cost effective solution would be to hire the top talent already here. This is especially true in professions which do not work very well in outsourced situations, like business consulting, marketing, management etc.

This is why it is in the best interest of companies to support EB GCs.

most of the US companies don't look for cheapest person availiable. They are willing to pay whatever they pay to other employees. They just want right person with stability in mind. Most cheaply paid persons are not stable and happy.... they leave employer as soon as they get a $100/month+ offer.....
So I agree 100%. Even the company I work for is doing same. They are willing to pay me equal benefits..... and they are waiting for GC to come thr'......

GCwaitforever
12-27-2007, 12:30 AM
My take on it is that more jobs will be outsourced and only few core people important for a business will retain the jobs and also the salary hikes. This is assuming that offshoring companies mature over the period of time and move up in the service chain in terms of value of services they provide. The current trend is towards translating business requirements here and getting the programming done through some offshoring entity. The preferred vendors are benefiting enormously and so are the companies outsourcing. From a business point of view, technology is an enabler for competitve advantage. So critical and complex projects will still be done here through few core people.

I believe we can survive quite well in the global economy. I am more worried about future of American kids and the education system here. Unless they prepare well for the global economy, America will be in rude shock. Bush is not helping either, dumping the money on wars and creating boats load of debt burden for future generations.

sam_hoosier
12-27-2007, 11:45 AM
All,

With the current rate of outsourcing happening around in US and the rate of influx of temporary workers coming in on mostly L1 and may be few on H1 B Visas every year through the outsourcing companies , i am sceptical about the future of GC aspirants. With the way of GC processing happening which are caused by restrictions /policies of governing bodies and no sight of positive relief in near future i am little apprehensive about the future.

I feel that there might be no areas that are not impacted by Outsourcing boom . Most of the companies that i see and my friends work ,i see many of the operations are outsourced or planning in place to get outsourced.

with the current rate of outsourcing and subprime mess which may cause slow down in economy , i am not sure if there would be any positions to support our AOS , when our PD becomes current. Some times i think , the fight for GC is even worth it.

Every one feel free to post your views/opinions/Analysis on this topic ....

The impact of outsourcing (if any) would only be on lower level software/IT jobs which are getting sent to cheaper destinations. However the GC applicant pool is much wider than just IT/software programmers, so overall the impact would be smaller.

suratvoice
12-27-2007, 12:34 PM
We might be looking at it the wrong way. The question is whether outsourcing is bad. Maybe thats not what the question should be. My view is that just like competition, outsourcing and globalization are facts of life. You can fight it, but it will not get you anywhere.

If you think of globalization and realize that the whole world is a marketplace then wont the whole world be a competition for your job?

When I think of outsourcing, I think of just another competition for your job. In some cases though when the entire department is being outsourced you are part of the herd. The same can be said for entire departments laid off.

hpandey
12-27-2007, 12:42 PM
First of all, not everyone here is from India. Second, not everyone here is from programming/IT background. It is easy to make that assumption, but believe me, there are plenty of non-indians, or non-IT people, and even non-Indian, non-IT people here. :D

For these, what is or is not happening in Bangalore is completely irrelevant.
Second, people who are still here have already decided where they want to be. (Which is why they are on the forum in the first place). People change countries for more reasons than just following the next IT boom.

Anyway, regarding impact on opportunities here, there is a common misconception that companies have unlimited access to talent in other countries, and the only limiting factor is the quota of H1B visas.
Not true, by a long shot.
To give a simple example, our company is looking for people in Australia, Denmark, Finland, Canada and UK since the pool of qualified people in India has dried up in our field. Can anyone guess where is the biggest talent pool? Nope, not in Bangalore, its right here in USA!! Not all companies are looking for the cheapest person. They are looking for the best person. And in many cases, the best person is already here, and has gathered more experience over the years working for US companies. But they cannot hire her, simply because she is on a visa and thereby beholden to another company. If she had a GC, that would free up the talent pool and thereby make many companies less reliant on H1Bs. Increasing GCs for EB candidates has the same effect as increasing H1 quota, with the added benefit of making the cream of the crop available and reducing the uncertainty and hassle of hiring an H1.

When you outsource, you lose this talent pool which is already sitting in your backyard. You may still outsource, of course, but the most cost effective solution would be to hire the top talent already here. This is especially true in professions which do not work very well in outsourced situations, like business consulting, marketing, management etc.

This is why it is in the best interest of companies to support EB GCs.

Pineapple .. you hit the nail right on the head. It is a misconception that everything is cool in India. There are a lot more problems than just your salary. Money is not everything . I think standard of living and less corruption , cleanliness and less crowd do count towards life.

sayantan76
12-27-2007, 01:09 PM
Pineapple .. you hit the nail right on the head. It is a misconception that everything is cool in India. There are a lot more problems than just your salary. Money is not everything . I think standard of living and less corruption , cleanliness and less crowd do count towards life.
i know i end up getting red dots for speaking up my mind - but i dont seem to learn!

outsourcing is a phenomenon that will slowly expand in scope beyond low-end IT jobs - but the larger issue is that overall economic activity, which was concentrated in a few cities around the world - like NYC, London, Singapore, Tokyo etc., is getting geographically distributed - today more cities/ countries have world class higher education schools, stock exchanges, hospitals, manufacturing companies, banks than ever before...as a result - starting with tier II and tier III cities and eventually NYC, Chicago etc -the pride of place held by many US cities is now going over to places like Mumbai, Jo'berg, East European cities, Brazil, Chinese cities etc......companies are choosing to list their stocks at hitherto unknown exchanges, people are travelling to India and Thailand to get medical treatment done and so on

obviously jobs of all kinds - not just IT jobs - move alongwith the shift in economic activity - and this is not just about saving labor costs - but about overall balancing of demand and supply for land, labor, capital and entrepreneurship.

So, those who have high skill adaptability, geographical mobility and a strong network of professional peers are likely to continue to succeed in this game...having a GC or not would become irrelevant sooner than we probably think..

A personal comment for hpandey - not sure where you live in US- but i cant imagine how living in 300sqft lofts in NYC or shabby NJ suburbs (for many of us) and doing all grocery/ laundry/ housekeeping/ NYC type commute on your own can be any worse than living in delhi or mumbai or bangalore with driver, domestic helps etc. :-)

bombay
12-27-2007, 02:04 PM
We should be happy that we would be much better than the local guys after gettting our green card. We can offshore jobs to our native countries and earn good money and retire soon.
Every coin has two sides, offshoring is good as well as bad. I am from non IT field and would offshore my jobs to india as soon as i get my green card. I hope not much americians can compete me but some chinese can.

bobzibub
12-27-2007, 02:13 PM
I don't think 90k for someone with 7-8 years of experience is high in most parts of US. Market rate for IT professionals might have increased in people working with niche technologies. But in general, I see a down trend. And with more people in the job market in Jan 08 (with AC21), I can predict the rates heading south.

Everyone of those people using AC21 will come from an existing job. They will typically go to a higher paying job. Every one of those jobs vacated will have to be sought on the open market, where they'll have market rates of today vs three years ago.
So my glass is half full. :D

mheggade
12-27-2007, 04:53 PM
Everyone of those people using AC21 will come from an existing job. They will typically go to a higher paying job. Every one of those jobs vacated will have to be sought on the open market, where they'll have market rates of today vs three years ago.
So my glass is half full. :D

yes..agreed. But you are forgeting all the new EAD's (H4's) who will be part of the mix.

sapota
12-27-2007, 06:06 PM
We think about outsourcing because it affects engineers the most. especially IT/software. Remember software is still a tool. What you do with the software is more important. The process of creating software is just like making any other tool (every problem is hard to solve only for the first time).

Western countries started the industrial revolution (manufacturing/factories). Now China is leading in manufacturing. IT revolution, again was started in the west. In 20 years, it is possible that very few lines of original software is written in the US. Its not that US does not have smart people who cannot be trained as engineers but more like the smart people in US prefer other occupations as compared to engineering/software.

I imagine the computer/internet revolution to be similar to the air travel revolution. Both made the world a smaller place. A few decades ago, being a pilot was a glamorous, high paying job. While pilots may still be reasonably paid, they are now perceived just like taxi drivers (with all due respect to both professions). What is to say how IT engineers are perceived as in a few decades from now. 13 years ago, a maths professor who taught us a class said "Before the computer was invented, we had a profession called typists; now they are called computer scientists".

US education system : A few months ago, there was an article that debunked the myth that 'US education is falling behind other countries'. The US education system may be a little pressured (especially in places with more population - but certainly not falling behind other countries. Just count the number of colleges in the US.

I am not just being brouhaha about the US. But just putting things in a different perspective.

H1B, GC, legal immigration are just sub audible noise in the overall scheme of things. Yes. it affects us a great deal because we cannot live unfettered lives.

On the other hand, India & China ( & Brazil/latin america & Russia) are starting to rise back (yes, each country had its own golden past - remember Columbus was trying to find a route to India when he discovered America. Marco Polo is still remembered for discovering the silk route to China....) These countries got left out of the renaissance, industrial revolution developments that gave western europe and north america an edge over the 3rd world countries.

Growth in the above mentioned countries will result in increased demand for goods and services that will benefit the overall global economy.

IMO

angelfire76
01-03-2008, 03:31 PM
yes..agreed. But you are forgeting all the new EAD's (H4's) who will be part of the mix.

You have to compete with H4s on EAD (I might be generalizing here so apologies to anyone offended) you've got more serious issues than you have foreseen.

EAD is not a ticket to a high-paying job requiring a certain level of skill.
I feel this thread is going the way of a Programmer's guild forum in that "Now that I'm in the door, stop the offshoring" :D

Wendyzhu77
01-03-2008, 04:36 PM
I am not so sure where you get the impression that being a pilot is not a glamarous job any more. If you equate airline pilot to taxi drivers, you would probabily see planes dropping from sky like raining, and I bet few would dare to take commercial airline, unless one with suicidal tendency.
However, that relates another interesting part about outsourcing: lots of people are saying outsourcing are good and you can get anyone to do the IT job, but it really turned out that lots of oursourced jobs are done so poorly that eventually it costs more for the company.
We think about outsourcing because it affects engineers the most. especially IT/software. Remember software is still a tool. What you do with the software is more important. The process of creating software is just like making any other tool (every problem is hard to solve only for the first time).

Western countries started the industrial revolution (manufacturing/factories). Now China is leading in manufacturing. IT revolution, again was started in the west. In 20 years, it is possible that very few lines of original software is written in the US. Its not that US does not have smart people who cannot be trained as engineers but more like the smart people in US prefer other occupations as compared to engineering/software.

I imagine the computer/internet revolution to be similar to the air travel revolution. Both made the world a smaller place. A few decades ago, being a pilot was a glamorous, high paying job. While pilots may still be reasonably paid, they are now perceived just like taxi drivers (with all due respect to both professions). What is to say how IT engineers are perceived as in a few decades from now. 13 years ago, a maths professor who taught us a class said "Before the computer was invented, we had a profession called typists; now they are called computer scientists".

US education system : A few months ago, there was an article that debunked the myth that 'US education is falling behind other countries'. The US education system may be a little pressured (especially in places with more population - but certainly not falling behind other countries. Just count the number of colleges in the US.

I am not just being brouhaha about the US. But just putting things in a different perspective.

H1B, GC, legal immigration are just sub audible noise in the overall scheme of things. Yes. it affects us a great deal because we cannot live unfettered lives.

On the other hand, India & China ( & Brazil/latin america & Russia) are starting to rise back (yes, each country had its own golden past - remember Columbus was trying to find a route to India when he discovered America. Marco Polo is still remembered for discovering the silk route to China....) These countries got left out of the renaissance, industrial revolution developments that gave western europe and north america an edge over the 3rd world countries.

Growth in the above mentioned countries will result in increased demand for goods and services that will benefit the overall global economy.

IMO

angelfire76
01-03-2008, 05:16 PM
I am not so sure where you get the impression that being a pilot is not a glamarous job any more. If you equate airline pilot to taxi drivers, you would probabily see planes dropping from sky like raining, and I bet few would dare to take commercial airline, unless one with suicidal tendency.
However, that relates another interesting part about outsourcing: lots of people are saying outsourcing are good and you can get anyone to do the IT job, but it really turned out that lots of oursourced jobs are done so poorly that eventually it costs more for the company.

I don't know how he/she equated handling a machine as complex as an airplane to a taxi cab. Bad analogy. Pilots are highly paid for a very good reason. Agreed that most of the maintenance is done by the ground crew but to make sense of the ever evolving flight instrumentation panel requires constant training and a significant amount of intelligence.

Software in certain areas has become a commodity especially coding application software which makes up about 80-85% of all systems developed. But a lot of work such as technical specification, software architecture etc. are still being seen as primarily onsite functions.