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NeedMiracles
09-13-2006, 01:55 PM
I think SKIL bill is our only hope. Unlike CIR, it looks like this bill has been introduced in both the houses which is a good sign. This bill has more number of sponsers from the House than in the Senate. That's another good sign.

Senate Bill - S.2691
House Bill - HR5744

qplearn
09-13-2006, 01:57 PM
I think SKIL bill is our only hope. Unlike CIR, it looks like this bill has been introduced in both the houses which is a good sign. This bill has more number of sponsers from the House than in the Senate. That's another good sign.

Senate Bill - S.2691
House Bill - HR5744

We all know this, but anyway I agree that this is our only hope.

I am willing to visit DC if I can help out in any way.

Looks like we can't expect only the core members to keep working.

qplearn

Alabaman
09-13-2006, 02:24 PM
We all know this, but anyway I agree that this is our only hope.

I am willing to visit DC if I can help out in any way.

Looks like we can't expect only the core members to keep working.

qplearn

Yeah but the core members need to let us know where they are and what they are doing and then give directions as appropriate. This would prevent individual uncoordinated actions that might impede their on going moves... otherwise this forum would just be a mere venting platform and the message would not get out there.

prince_waiting
09-13-2006, 02:27 PM
The company I work in is a medium sized business organization. My boss is a staunch republican. I hope to make him aware of these 2 bills and request him to write to the locol congressman and the senator. If we can all do the same then we can buil substantial momentum towards getting these 2 bills passed. Since most of the businesses have republican leanings and at some time have contributed towards the GOP in some way, their endorsements can have a major impact.

qplearn
09-13-2006, 02:30 PM
The company I work in is a medium sized business organization. My boss is a staunch republican. I hope to make him aware of these 2 bills and request him to write to the locol congressman and the senator. If we can all do the same then we can buil substantial momentum towards getting these 2 bills passed. Since most of the businesses have republican leanings and at some time have contributed towards the GOP in some way, their endorsements can have a major impact.


I have written to my local HOuse rep; no response from him.

I agree with Alabaman. We need to coordinate and do something. Waiting and watching will get us nowhere.

Canadian_Dream
09-13-2006, 03:08 PM
Anyone thinking that there will be a bill passed in near future that will overhaul skilled immigration process needs a reality check. Now I am not discouraging anyone from trying, I am also suffering through this mess and in no better position. The reasoning behind my assumption is following:

1. Lawmakers serve America and Americans. In theory anything that passes must look like it is serving their interest. Most laws/actions MUST look like it is helping Americans directly or indirectly, more so in an election year. That's why with less than 60 days for election it is not wise for them to spend time in enacting and debating laws that helps immigrants. It simply makes no sense.

2. You can argue that helping skilled immigrants will help America greatly and there is an urgency to enact such laws. Unfortunately no matter what media says, there is no such urgency seen by either law makers or their advisers. The reason, being there is no mass exodus for skilled immigrants, I know a few who have gone back but most of us are still here waiting for visa bulletin evey month hoping that some miracle will happen some day. Even if there is a mass exodus, there are enough people in India/China/Eastern Europe who will be more than happy to be here and do whatever we are doing. Simple law of numbers.

3. It can also be argued that America is not producing enough talents in Science and technology and hence we should throw a red carpet to anyone who can buy his way through the MS program from an American university. Unfortunately for us, a lot of us are doing mundane jobs and do not make a big impact in the economy the way techies used to be in late 90's. The best and the brightest are well taken care of (read: EB1/NIW) even today, for the rest us there isn't a desire nor a need to expidite the process in any manner. It will only help us, and we don't matter.

4. There isn't much shortage of skilled professionals, definitely not of the proportion that 65,000 visas are gone in 2 months. The only shortage I see is of numbers of "Visas". Although it is hard to find good people in technology but that problem cannot be solved by making that number higher. I am not sure what's the reason.


So what can we do ?
In short we are just a John Doe seeking better life which unfortunately isn't there in our home country. We should enhance our Skills (NOT skill bill) and help ourself to do well in anywhere. One thing is use 3 years extensions to chnage jobs and do well.

We can also align ourselves with H1B lobby/Healthcare lobby and request to file I-485 without visa numbers. That will at least stop some of the indentured servitude and our spouses can work.

pcs
09-13-2006, 03:09 PM
Just wait for some time for instructions. They may not like to expose their strato on this public place. But trust me they must be on it .....

genscn
09-13-2006, 03:25 PM
I think one thing we all can help is with clearing myth from American people mind that immigrants are hired on H1-B visa because they work for less $$. When few of my friends were hired to different companies, we all got lot more salary than American hired at same time for 2 reason: MS and education background.

Also, it cost company a lot of money to Sponsor H1-B for its employee. So if immigrant is hired, he/she was the most suitable and required candidate (Atleast at that time).

I think we need to work towards clearing this concept from American people mind for favorable wave for legal immigrants.

rheoretro
09-13-2006, 03:41 PM
Yes, we would all like to help, but unless IV directs us it is difficult to coordinate a unified approach.


Folks,

As a core member I thank you all for your support. IV needs your help with two things. First and foremost, our numbers need to grow. Right now we have about 6,000 members, but we all know there are far more people than that stuck in limbo due to backlogs in the legal immigration process.

Why do we need more numbers? Because when we go to talk to people on The Hill (and I live in DC and work here and I go as well), we have to convince them that we are a sizeable chunk of people in terms of our numerical strength that will vote when we become citizens. This is why we need to get working on this immediately. Talk to your family, friends and colleagues who are stuck in legal immigration backlogs, and get them to join IV. Each existing member should get at least one new member to join up. The more, the better.

Secondly, we need more members to become paying members. This is crucial, as all our work requires $$$. Saying "I'll pay when the work is done" does not help us. The work requires a steady cash flow, and while pledges are deeply appreciated, we can't operate merely on pledges. Many core members work very hard on raising money and on publicity.

So, I earnestly request your help in recruiting new members as well as strengthening our funding. Thank you!

Cheers!

RR

carbon
09-13-2006, 03:42 PM
I think we should gather hundreds of thousands of people on H1B and waiting for greencard and rally together in Washington DC. Numbers does matter.

I don't believe American politicians ONLY care about Americans and nothing else, If that is true how can you explain amnesties given in the past !!

rheoretro
09-13-2006, 03:45 PM
Folks,

I am speaking in my personal capacity here. While I am all for freedom of expression and assembly, I don't think that rallies will in any way help our cause. We have to talk to people and participate in various forums to make them aware of our cause. Standing and protesting is not going to help us, because our voice will still be lost in the din...we need to speak where it matters and be heard where it matters...

RR

masti_Gai
09-13-2006, 03:48 PM
well skill bill will help ppl with MS???
what about the ppl with BS and having umptin years of experience???
should we still be in soup:eek:

qualified_trash
09-13-2006, 03:53 PM
Folks,

As a core member I thank you all for your support. IV needs your help with two things. First and foremost, our numbers need to grow. Right now we have about 6,000 members, but we all know there are far more people than that stuck in limbo due to backlogs in the legal immigration process.

Why do we need more numbers? Because when we go to talk to people on The Hill (and I live in DC and work here and I go as well), we have to convince them that we are a sizeable chunk of people in terms of our numerical strength that will vote when we become citizens. This is why we need to get working on this immediately. Talk to your family, friends and colleagues who are stuck in legal immigration backlogs, and get them to join IV. Each existing member should get at least one new member to join up. The more, the better.

Secondly, we need more members to become paying members. This is crucial, as all our work requires $$$. Saying "I'll pay when the work is done" does not help us. The work requires a steady cash flow, and while pledges are deeply appreciated, we can't operate merely on pledges. Many core members work very hard on raising money and on publicity.

So, I earnestly request your help in recruiting new members as well as strengthening our funding. Thank you!

Cheers!

RR

I second what rheoretro has written............

As someone who has started working with the core group, I now fully understand the amount of work that goes into IV activities. At this time, IMHO, the best that all the other members can do is to contribute money to IV and spread the word about IV. Just getting your closest friends to sign up and CONTRIBUTE (if they are immigrants awaiting their Greencards), is the best thing all IV members can do for IV.

ashshef
09-13-2006, 03:56 PM
Hi core members,

I am willing to play a more active part in this if you can utilise me in anyway. I live in Redmond WA and my wife works in a major software company. I will be completing my 6 years on H1 early next month so I should have plenty of time on my hands. I was working full time in a processor company as a Hardware Design Engineer, most of these 6 years..but unfortunately my GC with them wasn't going anywhere so we decided to move from Austin to Seattle a year and a half back. We didn't envision the retro problem in the Eb2 category and just missed the bus as our PERM filing(from my wife's employer) was a tad too late. My H1 was initially expiring in June so I thought it was too late to apply last year when I saw the retro in EB2. I wish I had applied for my GC somewhere at that stage as I was able to recapture some time on my H and also the I140 filings seem to be a lot quicker this year.
But whats gone is gone....truth of the matter is that I will have to wait for the backlog to clear up...which could take years without legislation.
I would like to play a more active role with trying to garner support for the Skill bill, so please let me know if I can help with anything.

Regards

rheoretro
09-13-2006, 04:03 PM
Hi core members,

I am willing to play a more active part in this if you can utilise me in anyway

Hi,

The best thing that you can help us do for now is to recruit more members, and get them to pay IV. Trust me, membership and funding are two of the biggest challenges in front of us. Beyond that, if you would like to help further, send me a message, and I'll see who I can put you in touch with.

Thank you again!

Best,

RR

qplearn
09-13-2006, 04:07 PM
Folks,

I am speaking in my personal capacity here. While I am all for freedom of expression and assembly, I don't think that rallies will in any way help our cause. We have to talk to people and participate in various forums to make them aware of our cause. Standing and protesting is not going to help us, because our voice will still be lost in the din...we need to speak where it matters and be heard where it matters...

RR

I am not saying rallying is the only way, but do remember that participating in rallies will get us some recognition.

CNN will always ignore us thanks to our friend there, but has New York Times ever reported our plight? Has Jim Leherer ever talked about us? The main stream media does not even know us!

We need to do something that catches the attention of the media; just getting more members and more funds may not be enough. We need to write letters to editors of major newspapers like NYTIMES and WASH POST.

I am so glad about the strong reponse to this thread.

rheoretro
09-13-2006, 04:17 PM
We need to do something that catches the attention of the media; just getting more members and more funds may not be enough. We need to write letters to editors of major newspapers like NYTIMES and WASH POST.

I am so glad about the strong reponse to this thread.


I think you missed my point...we need more members because you can't get any one's time if you just want them to do something for you. You have to be prepared to do something for them. For us, when we become citizens, we need to vote. Now do you see why political parties look for numbers?

Also, as far as our outreach in the news media is concerned, you should look at this page:

http://www.immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_weblinks&catid=19&Itemid=27

We may not have made the news on CNN or on PBS, but we have gotten the word out across a wide spectrum of the news media...

RR

qplearn
09-13-2006, 04:26 PM
I think you missed my point...we need more members because you can't get any one's time if you just want them to do something for you. You have to be prepared to do something for them. For us, when we become citizens, we need to vote. Now do you see why political parties look for numbers?

Also, as far as our outreach in the news media is concerned, you should look at this page:

http://www.immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_weblinks&catid=19&Itemid=27

We may not have made the news on CNN or on PBS, but we have gotten the word out across a wide spectrum of the news media...

RR

Yes, I obviously cannot diasgree with that logic; it is all about votes.

But, I looked at the articles that you point to above: The one in WASH POST is about illegal immigration. There is no article in NY TIMES. We need the big newspapers and PBS to discuss our issue repeatedly. Also, many of the newspapers mentioned there cater to Indian population, e.g., Times of India. Plus shusterman.com will always report about us. He is not a part of the wide spectrum of media.

This is a problem with what we are doing. The media does not know about our plight; all they know is that many of us came here on H1B.

Also, all these articles should be on a sticky thread for all to see where we have been heard.

carbon
09-13-2006, 04:34 PM
This might sound weired..but I think we can get some support from Housing Market !
Facts:
------
The housing market is slowing down significantly and there are millions of unsold homes out there.

More than 1/2 million people are stuck in the green card process. I am sure
most are waiting for green card before they buy their house and make longtime commitment.

I think we are a "Frozen" pool of customers for the Housing Market.

500000 H1B X 300000 (average house price) = 150 billion dollar market is just
inaccessible just because of retrogression.

I think we should convince them to help us FINANCIALY

rheoretro
09-13-2006, 04:36 PM
Yes, I obviously cannot diasgree with that logic; it is all about votes. But, I looked at the articles: the one in WASH POST is about illegal immigration. Also, there is no article in NY TIMES. We need the big newspapers and PBS to discuss our issue repeatedly.

Also, all these articles should be on a sitcky thread for all to see.

Why don't you write and sumbit an op-ed piece to The NY Times? While I personally like watching Jim Lehrer's newshour on PBS, we shouldn't get obsessed with a particular program. We have been featured all over the mainstream media.

Here's the Washington Post Article that inspired me to join IV in April. I challenge you to write an article that will get us our next 6,000 members. And alll news articles about IV exist on a thread. Please look carefully before you trash our efforts. Thank you.

RR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skilled Immigrants Turn to K Street
High-Tech Workers Awaiting Green Cards Hire Lobbyists, Hit the Hill
By S. Mitra Kalita
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, April 26, 2006; D01
On the December day when Congress killed a budget amendment that might have allowed him to become an American a little sooner, Aman Kapoor started a movement.
He did not march through streets, carry signs, wave a flag from here or there. He did not walk off the job or file out of school. The computer programmer simply went online to a message board tracked by thousands of people in his predicament: highly skilled foreigners waiting years for their green cards.
"I think we can do better and really create the impact with organized effort," he wrote. "To achieve this we need a group of individuals who have shown commitment and motivation in this forum."
The next night, a dozen people living across the United States shed their Internet handles -- Kapoor's was "WaldenPond," a nod to his hero, Henry David Thoreau -- and addressed one another by name on a conference call that lasted an hour. Today, just four months later, the organization they dubbed Immigration Voice boasts 3,000 members; a fundraising goal of $200,000; and, most notably, a partnership with a high-powered lobbying firm, Quinn Gillespie & Associates LLC.
The group's transformation from an insular circle to a politically active movement offers a window into an alternative immigrant campaign being waged as the Senate this week resumes its work on immigration laws.
Most members and all the core organizers of Immigration Voice hail from India, though Chinese membership numbers in the hundreds and is on the rise. Most arrived on an international student visa or a visa known as the H-1B, reserved for highly skilled workers who can stay for up to six years -- unless an employer sponsors their green cards, which grant immigrants permanent residence in the United States and the right to live and work here freely. Over the past decade, the largest numbers of H-1Bs have been awarded to high-technology workers from India and China.
Thus, while the passage of a strict border-security bill introduced by Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis.) mobilized many other immigrants in December, members of this high-tech group had their eye on another: a budget reconciliation bill that, in the Senate version, would have allowed those waiting in line for a green card to proceed even if the quota had been exhausted. The provision was cut in conference committee, stirring many to action and leading to the founding of Immigration Voice.
While hundreds of thousands of protesters took to the streets to get Congress's attention, Immigration Voice took a decidedly different approach. Shortly after the group was established, Kapoor and other volunteers began interviewing lobbyists, relying mostly on Google searches and data from the Center for Public Integrity's Web site.
"If it was not going to be big, it would not be worth the effort," said Kapoor, who works for Florida State University and has traveled to Washington nine times in the past three months. "Most of us have reached that point, having waited for eight or nine years, where individual lives are on hold."
Neither Quinn Gillespie nor Immigration Voice would disclose the amount being paid for the firm's services. Kapoor said it is "less than five figures."
"This is a sympathetic story," said Nick Maduros, a lobbyist for Quinn Gillespie. "For this group, their issues are very technical and are frankly not that controversial, but they have been overshadowed ."
Immigration Voices also enlisted the help of Rick Swartz, who has his own firm and has long been a leading lobbyist for immigration groups. Swartz gathered members of the group at his home one January weekend for a crash course in American politics, teaching them to position themselves as the "new Cubans for the Republicans."
Although their numbers are far smaller -- fewer than 2 million Indians live in the United States, according to the 2000 Census -- the group is among the more affluent immigrant communities. And because their numbers are smaller than those of Hispanics, they are trying to focus on other ways they can exert power -- through their wealth, their positions of influence in the high-tech and business communities, and their alliances with more established advocacy groups such as one for Indian physicians and an Indian political action committee.
While the immigrant marchers' demands have covered a range of issues, including allowing immigrants to gain legal status and eventually citizenship, the members of this association are more narrowly focused: They want Congress to pass measures that would end the years-long wait for a green card. In fact, they warn that efforts to enable millions of illegal immigrants to remain here permanently would result in the same bureaucratic nightmare legal immigrants are now facing.
"If you're going to reform, reform across the board," said Bharati Mandapati, who oversees content for the group, which means she has learned how to word and pitch legislative amendments.
The group has refrained from taking a stand on the fate of the undocumented workers, though it monitors chatter on its Web site to ensure that frustrated high-tech workers don't disparage lower-skilled laborers such as landscapers and restaurant workers. It also has stayed mum on raising the cap on H-1Bs, the visas that made most of their passages possible.
Under a proposal introduced by Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), the number of employment-based green cards being issued would increase from 140,000 to 290,000. Currently, no one country is supposed to take up more than 7 percent of the allotment, though unused green cards can be redistributed to countries that have already met their quota. That has made possible migrations in excess of 7 percent from nations such as India, China, Mexico and the Philippines. Under the proposal, the per-country cap would be increased to a hard and fast 10 percent. Proponents say this would prevent one country from dominating the category and would retain jobs for native-born Americans.
But Mandapati, a California-based economist, argues that the restriction would hurt the United States because the demand for skills changes. "It just so happens that computer technology and certain technical skills are in great demand here and all over the world. It just so happens that there are two countries that have invested a lot of resources in educating people in these fields . . . India and China."
About a half-million immigrants are caught in the green-card backlog, some as they wait for Labor Department approval or because quotas have been exceeded. In that time, they cannot be promoted or given substantial pay increases because that would mean a change in job description and salary. They turn to Web sites to compare their wait times with others, and their Internet handles, such as "stucklabor" and "waiting_labor," exude their frustration.
During meetings on Capitol Hill, Maduros and at least one Immigration Voice representative lay out the group's platform, weaving in the personal stories of members. Shilpa Ghodgaonkar, a Germantown housewife, has become a staple anecdote -- and a frequent visitor on the Hill.
For four years, she and her husband have been waiting for their green cards. Ghodgaonkar's husband arrived on an H-1B visa, and she followed as his dependent, unauthorized to work here. To pass the time, she learned to cook. Then she volunteered as a career counselor in Montgomery County. Last year, she earned her MBA from George Washington University. In December, around the time Kapoor sent out his e-mail plea for mass mobilization, Ghodgaonkar had run out of options.
"I just couldn't keep quiet anymore," Ghodgaonkar said. "I cannot be depressed anymore."
She keeps a spreadsheet that lays out appointment times and the senators' offices she has visited or still plans to: Specter, Frist, Schumer, Brownback, Bingaman, Feinstein, Feingold. Wednesdays bring a weekly call with Quinn Gillespie. And every few nights, there are conference calls among Immigration Voice's core team.
Now the group plans to closely watch the debate resuming in the Senate Judiciary Committee. Earlier this month, Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) proposed amendments with all of the group's provisions. Other lawmakers confirm that they are still meeting with the group to hear their concerns.
Immigration Voice leaders say the past few months have focused and politicized Indian immigrants in a way that was not apparent in the past. "There is a very 'Mr. Smith Goes to Washington' quality" about the current effort, Mandapati said. "It's been a journey, a loss of naiveté and getting to know about American politics."
© 2006 The Washington Post Company

pappu
09-13-2006, 04:37 PM
Hi,

The best thing that you can help us do for now is to recruit more members, and get them to pay IV. Trust me, membership and funding are two of the biggest challenges in front of us. Beyond that, if you would like to help further, send me a message, and I'll see who I can put you in touch with.

Thank you again!

Best,

RR

We need more members to join IV. In order to help us, pls--

- post IV poster in your local grocery stores, temples and restaaurants. (the poster is in resources section)
- try to get friends from other nationalities to join IV.
- If you are a graduate of A US university pls contact your alumni association and inform all their members.
- Send an email to all your friends. (template in resources section) informing about IV

qplearn
09-13-2006, 04:38 PM
Why don't you write and sumbit an op-ed piece to The NY Times? While I personally like watching Jim Lehrer's newshour on PBS, we shouldn't get obsessed with a particular program. We have been featured all over the mainstream media.

Here's the Washington Post Article that inspired me to join IV in April. I challenge you to write an article that will get us our next 6,000 members. And alll news articles about IV exist on a thread. Please look carefully before you trash our efforts. Thank you.

RR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skilled Immigrants Turn to K Street
High-Tech Workers Awaiting Green Cards Hire Lobbyists, Hit the Hill
By S. Mitra Kalita
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, April 26, 2006; D01
On the December day when Congress killed a budget amendment that might have allowed him to become an American a little sooner, Aman Kapoor started a movement.
He did not march through streets, carry signs, wave a flag from here or there. He did not walk off the job or file out of school. The computer programmer simply went online to a message board tracked by thousands of people in his predicament: highly skilled foreigners waiting years for their green cards.
"I think we can do better and really create the impact with organized effort," he wrote. "To achieve this we need a group of individuals who have shown commitment and motivation in this forum."
The next night, a dozen people living across the United States shed their Internet handles -- Kapoor's was "WaldenPond," a nod to his hero, Henry David Thoreau -- and addressed one another by name on a conference call that lasted an hour. Today, just four months later, the organization they dubbed Immigration Voice boasts 3,000 members; a fundraising goal of $200,000; and, most notably, a partnership with a high-powered lobbying firm, Quinn Gillespie & Associates LLC.
The group's transformation from an insular circle to a politically active movement offers a window into an alternative immigrant campaign being waged as the Senate this week resumes its work on immigration laws.
Most members and all the core organizers of Immigration Voice hail from India, though Chinese membership numbers in the hundreds and is on the rise. Most arrived on an international student visa or a visa known as the H-1B, reserved for highly skilled workers who can stay for up to six years -- unless an employer sponsors their green cards, which grant immigrants permanent residence in the United States and the right to live and work here freely. Over the past decade, the largest numbers of H-1Bs have been awarded to high-technology workers from India and China.
Thus, while the passage of a strict border-security bill introduced by Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis.) mobilized many other immigrants in December, members of this high-tech group had their eye on another: a budget reconciliation bill that, in the Senate version, would have allowed those waiting in line for a green card to proceed even if the quota had been exhausted. The provision was cut in conference committee, stirring many to action and leading to the founding of Immigration Voice.
While hundreds of thousands of protesters took to the streets to get Congress's attention, Immigration Voice took a decidedly different approach. Shortly after the group was established, Kapoor and other volunteers began interviewing lobbyists, relying mostly on Google searches and data from the Center for Public Integrity's Web site.
"If it was not going to be big, it would not be worth the effort," said Kapoor, who works for Florida State University and has traveled to Washington nine times in the past three months. "Most of us have reached that point, having waited for eight or nine years, where individual lives are on hold."
Neither Quinn Gillespie nor Immigration Voice would disclose the amount being paid for the firm's services. Kapoor said it is "less than five figures."
"This is a sympathetic story," said Nick Maduros, a lobbyist for Quinn Gillespie. "For this group, their issues are very technical and are frankly not that controversial, but they have been overshadowed ."
Immigration Voices also enlisted the help of Rick Swartz, who has his own firm and has long been a leading lobbyist for immigration groups. Swartz gathered members of the group at his home one January weekend for a crash course in American politics, teaching them to position themselves as the "new Cubans for the Republicans."
Although their numbers are far smaller -- fewer than 2 million Indians live in the United States, according to the 2000 Census -- the group is among the more affluent immigrant communities. And because their numbers are smaller than those of Hispanics, they are trying to focus on other ways they can exert power -- through their wealth, their positions of influence in the high-tech and business communities, and their alliances with more established advocacy groups such as one for Indian physicians and an Indian political action committee.
While the immigrant marchers' demands have covered a range of issues, including allowing immigrants to gain legal status and eventually citizenship, the members of this association are more narrowly focused: They want Congress to pass measures that would end the years-long wait for a green card. In fact, they warn that efforts to enable millions of illegal immigrants to remain here permanently would result in the same bureaucratic nightmare legal immigrants are now facing.
"If you're going to reform, reform across the board," said Bharati Mandapati, who oversees content for the group, which means she has learned how to word and pitch legislative amendments.
The group has refrained from taking a stand on the fate of the undocumented workers, though it monitors chatter on its Web site to ensure that frustrated high-tech workers don't disparage lower-skilled laborers such as landscapers and restaurant workers. It also has stayed mum on raising the cap on H-1Bs, the visas that made most of their passages possible.
Under a proposal introduced by Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), the number of employment-based green cards being issued would increase from 140,000 to 290,000. Currently, no one country is supposed to take up more than 7 percent of the allotment, though unused green cards can be redistributed to countries that have already met their quota. That has made possible migrations in excess of 7 percent from nations such as India, China, Mexico and the Philippines. Under the proposal, the per-country cap would be increased to a hard and fast 10 percent. Proponents say this would prevent one country from dominating the category and would retain jobs for native-born Americans.
But Mandapati, a California-based economist, argues that the restriction would hurt the United States because the demand for skills changes. "It just so happens that computer technology and certain technical skills are in great demand here and all over the world. It just so happens that there are two countries that have invested a lot of resources in educating people in these fields . . . India and China."
About a half-million immigrants are caught in the green-card backlog, some as they wait for Labor Department approval or because quotas have been exceeded. In that time, they cannot be promoted or given substantial pay increases because that would mean a change in job description and salary. They turn to Web sites to compare their wait times with others, and their Internet handles, such as "stucklabor" and "waiting_labor," exude their frustration.
During meetings on Capitol Hill, Maduros and at least one Immigration Voice representative lay out the group's platform, weaving in the personal stories of members. Shilpa Ghodgaonkar, a Germantown housewife, has become a staple anecdote -- and a frequent visitor on the Hill.
For four years, she and her husband have been waiting for their green cards. Ghodgaonkar's husband arrived on an H-1B visa, and she followed as his dependent, unauthorized to work here. To pass the time, she learned to cook. Then she volunteered as a career counselor in Montgomery County. Last year, she earned her MBA from George Washington University. In December, around the time Kapoor sent out his e-mail plea for mass mobilization, Ghodgaonkar had run out of options.
"I just couldn't keep quiet anymore," Ghodgaonkar said. "I cannot be depressed anymore."
She keeps a spreadsheet that lays out appointment times and the senators' offices she has visited or still plans to: Specter, Frist, Schumer, Brownback, Bingaman, Feinstein, Feingold. Wednesdays bring a weekly call with Quinn Gillespie. And every few nights, there are conference calls among Immigration Voice's core team.
Now the group plans to closely watch the debate resuming in the Senate Judiciary Committee. Earlier this month, Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) proposed amendments with all of the group's provisions. Other lawmakers confirm that they are still meeting with the group to hear their concerns.
Immigration Voice leaders say the past few months have focused and politicized Indian immigrants in a way that was not apparent in the past. "There is a very 'Mr. Smith Goes to Washington' quality" about the current effort, Mandapati said. "It's been a journey, a loss of naiveté and getting to know about American politics."
© 2006 The Washington Post Company

This is not the article placed on the thread. And nobody is trashing your efforts!!!!

carbon
09-13-2006, 04:42 PM
This might sound weired..but I think we can get some support from Housing Market !
Facts:
------
The housing market is slowing down significantly and there are millions of unsold homes out there.

More than 1/2 million people are stuck in the green card process. I am sure
most are waiting for green card before they buy their house and make longtime commitment.

I think we are a "Frozen" pool of customers for the Housing Market.

500000 H1B X 300000 (average house price) = 150 billion dollar market is just
inaccessible just because of retrogression.

I think we should convince them to help us FINANCIALY
Edit/Delete Message

rheoretro
09-13-2006, 04:44 PM
This is not the article placed on the thread. And nobody is trashing your efforts!!!!

A simple Google search on Immigration Voice has in its fourth hit that Washington Post Article...I don't maintain the page that you were looking in.

Please stop complaining, and stop yelling. Please do something constructive - write that op-ed piece and publish it in The NY Times.

Thank you.

rheoretro
09-13-2006, 04:47 PM
Administrator - Please delete this posting immediately. It smacks of shameless racism, and we don't want our entire entire community to be tainted by this shameless guy.

Canadian_Dream
09-13-2006, 05:02 PM
I hope my previous post is not taken in any negative sense. I was only expressing my opinion. I believe in what IV is trying to accomplish and I have contributed to the cause. I was only implying my reservations to the fact that SKIL bill will be on some sort of fast track just because we are all waiting for 5 years. I was only saying requesting a small measure will go a long way to help us all, instead of looking for a big pay day from Skill Bill.
There is a talk of border security bill that could be vehicle for our cause, provided we ask for reasonable measures.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1153AP_Congress_Border_Security.html
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060912-111217-9472r.htm

qplearn
09-13-2006, 05:10 PM
A simple Google search on Immigration Voice has in its fourth hit that Washington Post Article...I don't maintain the page that you were looking in.

Please stop complaining, and stop yelling. Please do something constructive - write that op-ed piece and publish it in The NY Times.

Thank you.
This forum is for discussions; nobody is yelling at you. YOU pointed out to thread that linked to the WASH Post article; it turned out to be about illegal immigrants.

Also, I will definitely write to NY TIMES, but cannot do it on behalf of IV.

Also, I do not know of your efforts; so how could I trash them? :)

qplearn
09-13-2006, 05:14 PM
Administrator - Please delete this posting immediately. It smacks of shameless racism, and we don't want our entire entire community to be tainted by this shameless guy.
I did not understand this posting. Where is the racism?

qplearn
09-13-2006, 05:16 PM
We need more members to join IV. In order to help us, pls--

- post IV poster in your local grocery stores, temples and restaaurants. (the poster is in resources section)
- try to get friends from other nationalities to join IV.
- If you are a graduate of A US university pls contact your alumni association and inform all their members.
- Send an email to all your friends. (template in resources section) informing about IV
Will do.

satyasaich
09-13-2006, 05:21 PM
But, can i do a small change that "approximately 500,000 potential buyers stranded to invest around $100 Billions in Housing market(assuming that average price of home @$200,000)"

In the housing market terms, $100 Billions is a kicker and no doubt a Winning argument.

This might sound weired..but I think we can get some support from Housing Market !
Facts:
------
The housing market is slowing down significantly and there are millions of unsold homes out there.

More than 1/2 million people are stuck in the green card process. I am sure
most are waiting for green card before they buy their house and make longtime commitment.

I think we are a "Frozen" pool of customers for the Housing Market.

500000 H1B X 300000 (average house price) = 150 billion dollar market is just
inaccessible just because of retrogression.

I think we should convince them to help us FINANCIALY
Edit/Delete Message

Alabaman
09-13-2006, 07:08 PM
well skill bill will help ppl with MS???
what about the ppl with BS and having umptin years of experience???
should we still be in soup:eek:

Invest in an MS (even if its part time) and help urself:)

amitjoey
09-13-2006, 07:32 PM
Regarding the 1st point, we, or at least I, am already trying to recruit as many people as I can, also posted IV posters in a few places.
Does anyone know how the illegals got word out about their rally across the country, or specifically press coverage about it? If so, we can try to use the same source, not for a rally, but to get IV's name out and talk about our major issues reduced to 2-3 points, so it is not confusing for the public.

Regarding, 2nd point, I think we can all contribute small amounts, say $50-100, but unfortunately most of us are stuck in low paying jobs. If we can get employers involved, that could be a better source of funds. Seriously, I dont expect many employers to contribute, but maybe academic employers who are losing funding because their H1-b employees are not authorized to get it, might be more willing to contribute.

Also, is anyone aware of any Indian American politicans, perhaps local Congressmen, that we can contact? I think I read recently of one in Texas.

Here is a story on a senator from Delaware who seems to be suportive of Indian Americans, although the story is on how he made a blunder talking about them:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/07/politics/main1785303.shtml

Also, though you are probably aware of these organizations, maybe we can apporach them to help publicize our cause where it matters:
1) Indian American Republican Council:
http://www.iarcnational.org/
2) Indian American Center for Political Awareness
http://www.iacfpa.org/
I agree with rheoretro, the first thing that any member feeling helpless here should do is to get more publicity for IV. Talk to people in the same situation
who are suffering because of backlog or cannot file because of retrogression.
Please urge all your friends, influence them to contribute to IV.
Lets continue doing that on a daily basis and then if you feel you can do more, start writing to your local representatives, senators, house members.
I have written atleast 2-3 times to my senator on numerous occasions.
I feel, your words, combined with your thoughts about how this affects you helps a lot in conveying and putting the message across.

I just got sending a email message to my senator here, I am going to follow it up with a letter.
Email message reads like this:


Dear Senator Boxer
I have been a legal resident in state of " " for close to 5+/X years and I have been a legal resident in the USA for a total of X years.
I am a legal immigrant, whose application for permanent residency has been pending for the last 3 years.

The U.S. government makes only a certain number of immigrant visas (green cards) available each year and these are allocated among the various immigrant visa categories and countries from which applicants seek to emigrate.

Retrogression: For the past few years, the number of immigrants approved for employment-based immigrant visas has been lower than the number of visas available, resulting in no backlog in visa numbers. Recently, the DOS has seen far more immigrants approved for employment-based immigrant visas and has run out of visa numbers in certain categories, causing a temporary backlog or "retrogression" of visa numbers.

EB-3: This visa category includes employment-based immigrant visas for:

1) professionals with a bachelor's degree
2) skilled workers in positions requiring two or more years of experience or training
3) unskilled workers

Chargeability: Immigrant visa numbers are further apportioned among the various countries from which applicants seek to emigrate. Each country has a limit and each approved applicant is "charged" against his or her country's limit.

Also to complicate the matters, there are those folks that came here illegally that were allowed to change status based on 245(i). Every year in Oct (start of new fiscal year for the govt) 140,000 visas are made avaible for EB3s. These 140,000 visas are divided amongst the different nationalities. Some visas are now going to be eaten up by the surge of 245(i)s from 2001. Irrespective of the the nationality of the 245(i) applicants, they are impacting every category witihn EB3. That is the main reason that almost all EB3 categories have retrogressed and will remain so for a while. Its a grim picture but thats the reality.

We need some intervention from Congress, otherwise people like me will have to wait for years - possibly half a decade or more

I support your opinion that there cannot be any amnesty for illegal immigrants, but there should be emergency relief for legal immigrants stuck in the logjam for years. We ought to make it a little fair for legal, honest and law-abiding legal immigrants.

Please support any bill that gives a temporary relief to legal immigrants (especially Employment based applicants). A temporary increase in the number of Visas allocated to the Employment based categories can substantially alievate some hardship.

Thanks for your understanding
Future Citizen, proud resident of state of California

Thanks

days_go_by
09-13-2006, 08:40 PM
But, can i do a small change that "approximately 500,000 potential buyers stranded to invest around $100 Billions in Housing market(assuming that average price of home @$200,000)"

In the housing market terms, $100 Billions is a kicker and no doubt a Winning argument.
-------------
sure, we are struggling to raise 200K for IV's cause and u are talking about raising $100, billion. Housing industry cannot save us, IT has pretty strong lobbying clout, lets concentrate our efforts on IT industry.

NeedMiracles
09-13-2006, 08:50 PM
Masti_guy - Don't worry about not having an MS. If people with MS move out of the queue the queue will autmatically move forward. There are a number of MS engineers working in EB3 positions especially the one who have never changed employers after they got out of school..

cardamon
09-13-2006, 09:25 PM
We can also align ourselves with H1B lobby/Healthcare lobby and request to file I-485 without visa numbers. That will at least stop some of the indentured servitude and our spouses can work.

Why don't we think thorough about this great idea?
I have an amendment to it. Basically all I currently care about is work permit for my spouse, even temporary authorization would please us enormously, say for the period of retrogression delay.
If I recall correctly, spouses of people on L visas can work, why do we have to suffer?

go_gc_way
09-13-2006, 10:17 PM
We need more members to join IV. In order to help us, pls--

- post IV poster in your local grocery stores, temples and restaaurants. (the poster is in resources section)
- try to get friends from other nationalities to join IV.
- If you are a graduate of A US university pls contact your alumni association and inform all their members.
- Send an email to all your friends. (template in resources section) informing about IV

I will be doing these soon.

go_gc_way
09-13-2006, 10:22 PM
We need more members to join IV. In order to help us, pls--

- post IV poster in your local grocery stores, temples and restaaurants. (the poster is in resources section)
- try to get friends from other nationalities to join IV.
- If you are a graduate of A US university pls contact your alumni association and inform all their members.
- Send an email to all your friends. (template in resources section) informing about IV

I will be doing these soon.

Pappu, your inbox is full and cant take any more messages .. I have a suggestion, there may be members willing to spend time to help at the same time they may not able to spend hours / Daily but hours / Weekly. They probably can be assigned meaningful tasks to help you.

rheoretro
09-13-2006, 10:52 PM
I deeply appreciate the follow up messages from nycgal369 and amitjoey, as well as the efforts of other members who are posting and reading messages...

Leave the PR and outreach efforts on Capitol Hill efforts to the core members. We need help from other members who are willing to dedicate their efforts to getting members. Talk to family, friends and colleagues. Talk to people in your classes, if you are taking part-time classes. Talk to your boss. Talk to your neighbors who are US citizens and get them to talk to Congressmen and Senators...send emails and letters to your Congressmen and Senators!

Once again, following up on what nycgal369 said, exactly what amount people contribute is in some ways not what we care first and foremost for. Please contribute what you can comfortably handle within your budget. Whether it is $20, or $ 50 or $500 is your call...the important thing is that people start contributing something...we need funds to support our lobbying activities. And please be assured...all expenses will be audited by a CPA. We are legally obligated to do this.

Another point that nycgal369 raised is about community outreach efforts...we are already in touch with organizations, both on the left and the right. Please leave that to us. Please help us out with recruiting members and with raising money...

GCforme
09-14-2006, 12:25 AM
This is what I found in the TOI -Pune..

[URL="http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=VE9JUFUvMjAwNi8wOS8xNCNBcjAxNDAw&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom"]

Well not sure if its a known fact, but this is what the future is going to be if they dont take any serious measures to attract qualified medical professional to the US

honge_kamyaab
09-14-2006, 09:56 AM
Hi rheoretro,

First of all I commend your and everyone in putting their effort. I totally agree with you that we need more people and money. I think people are first to come and money will automatically follow.

While word-of-mouth is effective we can augment this to get attention using other means:

1. We can persuade news portals to advertise for our cause in a corner that might help us to get more people. Most Indians I know read Indian news everyday. If we can convince e.g., eenadu.net a telugu newspaper, to run ads we can get attention of lot people.

2. Please start selling the current acheivements that are not confidential. Like you might have been successful in persuading a high profile senator about this problem. Put his quotes on our site and also possible grab attention from bloggers.

3. If we can also tap academia who support skilled immigration that would help us. Let us put there studies in our reference section (I am assuming we didn't do this yet). This
makes senator to reference our site and make their lives easy.

4. Please do not discount freewill members who do not have a GC problem but savor
helping others with immigration problem. It could be Americans or Immigrants we'll get them all in.

I think these actions will help us grow our strength. I know it is easy said than done. I will send a mail to rediff and eenadu to put our banner on their frontpage. If anyone has contacts working for these website. That will make it whole lot easier.

-Kishore.

gg_ny
09-14-2006, 10:00 AM
I will be doing these soon.

Pappu, your inbox is full and cant take any more messages .. I have a suggestion, there may be members willing to spend time to help at the same time they may not able to spend hours / Daily but hours / Weekly. They probably can be assigned meaningful tasks to help you.


Pappu, pl clean up your mailbox! I sent a Nature article with potetial contacts but the mail bounced back. On a lighter side, at least tell me you are very busy at DC right now and won't be able to do this ;-)

-gg

rheoretro
09-14-2006, 10:24 AM
Point 1: We need to target news media here in the US primarily, not abroad. All good publicity is welcome, though. Please see a new thread started today by one of the moderators called "Ideas to increase Publicity of IV." There are key action items outlined there that every member can help out with.

Point 2: What will be shared (and with whom) will be decided soon by the core group. We used to send out regular updates, but that has suffered lately because we are all volunteers and some volunteers who were in charge of it are tied down with other things at work and home.

Point 3: We are already talking to people in academia and the academies.


Point 4: No member is "discounted." All are welcome, but we really need non-paying members to start chipping in money. What people decide to contribute is their business, and entirely theirs. Whether it is $20 or $50 or $100 or $500...that is entirely the call of the individual. This activity is not cheap, rather it requires a steady cash flow. We are obligated under the laws to hire a CPA and everything will be handled and accounted for.

Hi rheoretro,

First of all I commend your and everyone in putting their effort. I totally agree with you that we need more people and money. I think people are first to come and money will automatically follow.

While word-of-mouth is effective we can augment this to get attention using other means:

1. We can persuade news portals to advertise for our cause in a corner that might help us to get more people. Most Indians I know read Indian news everyday. If we can convince e.g., eenadu.net a telugu newspaper, to run ads we can get attention of lot people.

2. Please start selling the current acheivements that are not confidential. Like you might have been successful in persuading a high profile senator about this problem. Put his quotes on our site and also possible grab attention from bloggers.

3. If we can also tap academia who support skilled immigration that would help us. Let us put there studies in our reference section (I am assuming we didn't do this yet). This
makes senator to reference our site and make their lives easy.

4. Please do not discount freewill members who do not have a GC problem but savor
helping others with immigration problem. It could be Americans or Immigrants we'll get them all in.

I think these actions will help us grow our strength. I know it is easy said than done. I will send a mail to rediff and eenadu to put our banner on their frontpage. If anyone has contacts working for these website. That will make it whole lot easier.

-Kishore.

pappu
09-14-2006, 11:02 AM
I will be doing these soon.

Pappu, your inbox is full and cant take any more messages .. I have a suggestion, there may be members willing to spend time to help at the same time they may not able to spend hours / Daily but hours / Weekly. They probably can be assigned meaningful tasks to help you.
thanks. Any help that would increase membership and funding of IV will be helpful. There are already lobbying efforts being undertaken by core members. However in order to create significant impact of numbers and increased funding to support our lobbying efforts, our membership base will need to increase.
pls email at himanshu at immigrationvoice.org
the mailbox also has some space now.

btw there are several other immigration forums and yahoo, msn and google groups. (you can search on search engines and you will find plenty). If you would like to help us increase our visibilitry and get more members, pls. post messages on these forums informing everyone about IV and ask them to join IV.

honge_kamyaab
09-14-2006, 11:04 AM
The objective here is to add members; to acheive that we need get to the places where they go.

1. regularly visited websites

I am not saying we should advertise in Indian sites only. I am saying advertise in the sites where immigration applicants visit regularly.

Grocery stores & company HR sites are obviously other means to get attention of the immigration applicants.

rheoretro
09-14-2006, 11:36 AM
The objective here is to add members; to acheive that we need get to the places where they go.

1. regularly visited websites

I am not saying we should advertise in Indian sites only. I am saying advertise in the sites where immigration applicants visit regularly.

Grocery stores & company HR sites are obviously other means to get attention of the immigration applicants.

Absolutely, I agree with you. Please help us out! Thank you!

sbabunle
09-14-2006, 01:46 PM
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-2691

above link give more info about the bill and legislative activities
in a condensed form.

nb_des
09-14-2006, 02:09 PM
It is very difficult to get a bill passed in House for increasing visa numbers. Be it legal or illegal there is no way House will pass anything that increases visa numbers this election year. I am doubtful even for next year.

For this year or for now we should just get something like "ability to file 485 even when visa numbers are unavailable". This is something which will provide some relief to all of us and has good chance of going through. Subsequently we can keep trying to get the SKIL bill passed next year.

gc_rip
09-14-2006, 04:21 PM
It is very difficult to get a bill passed in House for increasing visa numbers. Be it legal or illegal there is no way House will pass anything that increases visa numbers this election year. I am doubtful even for next year.

For this year or for now we should just get something like "ability to file 485 even when visa numbers are unavailable". This is something which will provide some relief to all of us and has good chance of going through. Subsequently we can keep trying to get the SKIL bill passed next year.

Absolutely. Now with PERM and premium 140, if we can file 485, and then hit the snooze button for 10 years -- no problem for me. I know, not everyone will be lucky to board onto the PERM, but atleast it will be relief for most of us.

manderson
09-14-2006, 04:29 PM
I think the best way to approach this thing is to increase visibility of the "American competitiveness challenged" idea. Which is basically - globalization has made it easier for foreign students and high skilled professionals to go to other places, besides the US. This is a long term problem for American competitiveness and immigration laws must be adjusted to solve this… (you see where I am going with this).

Recently a group of influential CEOs pressed lawmakers and the Bush administration on the idea and subsequently several studies/ reports were released (I have attached one such report). Let’s build our case and momentum on this for next year (let’s face it: immigration reforms are dead for the year). I think the IV leadership has a huge opportunity in guiding/ co-ordinating such an effort.

nb_des
09-14-2006, 04:50 PM
Absolutely. Now with PERM and premium 140, if we can file 485, and then hit the snooze button for 10 years -- no problem for me. I know, not everyone will be lucky to board onto the PERM, but atleast it will be relief for most of us.

Indirectly illegal worker issue has hurt us. Now more than ever House has a resolve not to allow increase in Visa numbers.

We should really wake up to the reality and for this year or as a first step just get us to file 485. Believe me even getting this through will be difficult this year.

manderson
09-14-2006, 05:02 PM
Are you talking about doing this (ability to file 485 w/o current PD) as an ammendment to the Fence act (which just passed House) when it goes to the Senate?

jaihind
09-14-2006, 05:21 PM
I agree with you guys...especially even if they permit 485 filing pending the priority date...it will help a whole lot of people get out of their employer's tyrannical grip and lead a free life.....:) ...I only hope the SKIL bill gets passed in some way sooner.....

485Mbe4001
09-14-2006, 05:47 PM
its a short sighted approach, you will just move from one level of pain to another one...once you realize that you are stuck with no change in job 'status' for 10 odd years you will realize that AC21 is not all that great...ihmo..i agree with you on the SKILL bill

I agree with you guys...especially even if they permit 485 filing pending the priority date...it will help a whole lot of people get out of their employer's tyrannical grip and lead a free life.....:) ...I only hope the SKIL bill gets passed in some way sooner.....

dan19
09-14-2006, 06:10 PM
Rather than pushing for Bills which will pass only after we get a GC, why don't we ask for something more practical. I mean ask for minor policy changes rather than asking for major law changes.

Like,

1- granting EADs to all who have completed I-140,
2- reducing the timeframe to apply for AC21 from 6 months to 3 months,

This will solve a lot of people's immediate problems.
There are many people who couldn't get their status readjusted due to retrogression after filing I485, but could get EAD atleast.

What does that mean? It means by law only a certain amount of GCs can be issued in any year, but USCIS may issue more EADs based on one of their policies.

vgayalu
09-14-2006, 07:09 PM
Rather than pushing for Bills which will pass only after we get a GC, why don't we ask for something more practical. I mean ask for minor policy changes rather than asking for major law changes.

Like,

1- granting EADs to all who have completed I-140,
2- reducing the timeframe to apply for AC21 from 6 months to 3 months,

This will solve a lot of people's immediate problems.
There are many people who couldn't get their status readjusted due to retrogression after filing I485, but could get EAD atleast.

What does that mean? It means by law only a certain amount of GCs can be issued in any year, but USCIS may issue more EADs based on one of their policies.


Well said Dan19.
I am barking for the same thing for n number of times.

vgayalu
09-14-2006, 07:26 PM
Rather than pushing for Bills which will pass only after we get a GC, why don't we ask for something more practical. I mean ask for minor policy changes rather than asking for major law changes.

Like,

1- granting EADs to all who have completed I-140,
2- reducing the timeframe to apply for AC21 from 6 months to 3 months,

This will solve a lot of people's immediate problems.
There are many people who couldn't get their status readjusted due to retrogression after filing I485, but could get EAD atleast.

What does that mean? It means by law only a certain amount of GCs can be issued in any year, but USCIS may issue more EADs based on one of their policies.


Well said Dan19.
I am barking for the same thing for n number of times.

cardamon
09-14-2006, 11:23 PM
I am with you guys!
Let's add a lline for spouses - I mean granting EAD for them as well, on I-140 approval.

purgan
09-14-2006, 11:40 PM
yeah, and throw in free college tuition for your brothers and sisters:D

it ain't gonna happen

I'd be surprised if they agree to even ability to file 1-485....the anti-immigrationists/protectionists will fight tooth and nail on everything. They don't want you in the country...they want you to go back...they're against anything that will help immigrants stay here.

its pretty clear what they want