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SunnySurya
08-06-2008, 09:04 PM
THIS ISSUE IS CLOSED NOW. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. WITH SOME REGRETS
See the final results http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?p=300225#post300225



*****************
Original Message:

There is a difference between laws and regulations. Laws are what in INA (Immigration and Naturalization Act) and Regulations are what in CFR.
It takes congress and senate to change laws where as it takes discretion to change regulations. And the good news is that discretion can be challenged.
There is another thread on the issue and some of us think that we do have a case. Initial response from a certain lawyer has been positive.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20669
The affected parties (i.e. us) need to show damage in certain way and I do have some points that can be used. Our primary point is that the spirit of law has not been upheld.

Following are the steps in making this a reality:
a) Gather around 50 people
b) Develop and finalize draft of the case. Rolling_Flood has a initial draft.
c) Hold initial consultation with a lawyer.
d) Decide as a team if we want to continue.
e) File a class action suit or next course of action
(as of 08-29-08 , we have dropped the idea of lawsuit and are pursuing other avenues)
Not sure what is the total cost but given the years of wait and uncertainty $500 per person should be reasonable. I will also create a yahoo group to start these discussions.

Notes:
If you already have applied in EB2 you won't be affected.
If you have a Masters you won't be affected.

singhsa3
08-06-2008, 09:13 PM
Where will this road take us?

singhsa3
08-06-2008, 09:35 PM
Does not look like many takers but so far 50-50..

whitecollarslave
08-06-2008, 11:15 PM
Who is funding this?

jayleno
08-06-2008, 11:47 PM
Man...looks like you will turn anti-immigrant once you get US citizenship.
Whats your real problem?

irock
08-07-2008, 12:33 AM
Even though I'm EB2 and still waiting for GC, I oppose this. This is not fair.

wandmaker
08-07-2008, 01:21 AM
I could not resist from writing this post-

A fisherman is selling two baskets full of crabs. One basket has a lid on it, the other doesn’t. An inquisitive buyer asks him why this is so. He smiles, pointing to the covered basket and says, “Well I have to cover this one because if I don’t, the crabs will all climb out”. “Why not the other basket then?” persists the buyer.

“You, see, they’re Indian Crabs - if one tries to climb out, the others will pull it back in, hence there’s no need for a lid”

Concentrate on action items and work harder than ever, which can bring a great relief to entire EB community. It does not matter how many times we failed or succeeded, every attempt we are an inch closer to our ultimate (IV) goal.

permfiling
08-07-2008, 03:19 AM
I don't think it is unfair as I think

That if eb2 numbers are not filled then they automatically get allocated to eb3 so why to have portability to eb2.

ek_bechara
08-07-2008, 03:37 AM
North Indian/ South Indian, Marathi/Bihari, ABCD/FOB and now US educated EB2 Indians / others. How far are we going to go to showcase our differences?

My friend: We are one people. We all came to the US with similar dreams. There are many who came before us and are patiently waiting their turn. The issue is not yours or mine, its OURS. It is our duty to fight this injustice and provide equal access to all. Learn a lesson from the jewish community. They pretty much run this country.

I'm EB2/ Masters from US school and in my seventh year H1-B.

leoindiano
08-07-2008, 07:15 AM
SunnySurya, Flood,

I see that you guys didnt join IV until 2008. So, you know very less about this org. The people who only can think for their own wont come to join you at any stage, it was proven many times. They will just keep writing messages here and use valuable information on the forum.

I am EB2/Masters/PD Nov 2004. I do not not support your idea. I loose patience at times, but not to the extent of effecting other peoples chances. I know quite a few of my freinds who had masters, their corporate employers applied in EB3, none of them are trying to do conversion. But, i feel their pain.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 07:17 AM
Notes:
If you already have applied in EB2 you won't be affected.
If you have a Masters you won't be affected.
SunnySurya, Flood,

I see that you guys didnt join IV until 2008. So, you know very less about this org. The people who only can think for their own wont come to join you at any stage, it was proven many times. They will just keep writing messages here and use valuable information on the forum.

I am EB2/Masters/PD Nov 2004. I do not not support your idea. I loose patience at times, but not to the extent of effecting other peoples chances. I know quite a few of my freinds who had masters, their corporate employers applied in EB3, none of them are trying to do conversion. But, i feel their pain.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 07:19 AM
Easy for you to say as u already got your green card.

I could not resist from writing this post-[I]

Concentrate on action items and work harder than ever, which can bring a great relief to entire EB community. It does not matter how many times we failed or succeeded, every attempt we are an inch closer to our ultimate (IV) goal.

ncrtpMay2004
08-07-2008, 08:47 AM
Best of Luck.

Before you file the law suit consider this,

The system is designed to get GC faster to the smarter (EB1, EB2, EB3 etc) or the rich (Investor). Sometimes circumstances decide in which queue you start the journey, Employer, attorney, how many days left in h1b etc, etc, etc

I do not like to jump queues and resent people who jump queues. But these are the people who look for opportunities and exploit them. These are the smart ones.

System favors people who are skilled (higher the better), By finding (new Labor, new I140) and using an opportunity these people have proved that they are worthy of the faster queue (eb3 to eb2, eb2 to eb1 etc).

What is wrong in rewarding the hardworking smart person with the original PD. After all that PD was established for that person(thank god LC sub is gone). That is the day an employer decided to sponsor GC for that person.

I know you are asking
“What about me, I was working hard in the University (MS/PhD)?”
Your reward is you get to start the journey in EB2, 1 year+ in EAD and 6 years in H1. If you are really smart you would have got your employer to apply for GC with at least 5 years left on your H1 clock.

The system is designed to create conflict.

Having to exit the freeway to change lanes does not make sense to me.

mbawa2574
08-07-2008, 09:06 AM
Notes:
If you already have applied in EB2 you won't be affected.
If you have a Masters you won't be affected.

I am EB2 India with Dec 2005 waiting. I think all EB applications should have fair short. So if a EB3 can become a EB2 legally, I think it is a fantastic thing.

I did not know about this rule. I changed employer in Jan 2005. My last employer's lawyer ill advised them to file me under EB3 in spite of the fact that the job paying off close to 200 k in compensation required B +8 and M+4 years of experience. I changed the job in Sep 05. Next company did the right thing and started the labor in EB2. I did not know about porting/interfiling otherwise my PD would have been Jan 2005. So even if I would have done a Port/Interfile, how am I at fault ?

Desichakit
08-07-2008, 09:46 AM
So now its Old Wine that too illogical in new Bottle. I can at best say that it if you do not agree with some one then at least do not use its resource.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 10:22 AM
Only way this can be stopped is if the pie gets bigger. If the pie remain the same , I will defend my piece.
Only way (at least for now) the pie can get bigger if 5882 goes through...[/

sanju
08-07-2008, 10:23 AM
There is another thread on the issue and some of us think that we do have a case. Initial response from a certain lawyer has been positive.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20669
The affected parties (i.e. us) need to show damage in certain way and I do have some points that can be used.


Any lawyer will tell you that you have a case because he wants to make more money. Its like going to Walmart and Walmart telling you that the product does provide value for your family. You take any case to any lawyer, 99.9% lawyers will tell you that you have a case. You go with an idea that you should be the President of the country, they will tell you "Ya I can clearly see why you feel like that and I totally agree, so you may have a case there". My suggestion is, please do not waste your money if some lawyer is saying you that "you have a case". They know that is what you - the potential client, wants to hear.


Our primary point is that the spirit of law has not been upheld.


I bet this is what your lawyer told you. Do you realize how vague this term "spirit of the law" is. But, as long as you are ok to put you money in fire, who cares. Go right ahead, knock yourself, I am right behind you and best of luck, you sure need a lot of it. :p

wandmaker
08-07-2008, 10:36 AM
Easy for you to say as u already got your green card.

If Aman had worried about only himself then there would have been no IV. Start thinking for whole EB community. Change your "I" comes before "WE" attitude, help the whole community and help yourself. Anyway, good luck on your law suit.

wandmaker
08-07-2008, 10:40 AM
Ths poll should be changed to

Do you want to turn into an anti-immigrant when you get your greencard?
Yes I am in
No I am out

Shame on those who votes yes.

We said

aat0995
08-07-2008, 10:42 AM
First of all let me tell you that I am EB2 with MS from a US university. However, I do not agree to your terms! This is just not fair. If a person filed under eb3 at a point then he/she should be able to transfer it to EB2 using the same old dates. What is the problem with that mate? After all they are waiting since a long time just like us!

bkarnik
08-07-2008, 10:43 AM
LC substitution was wrong because it became a business thing for some unscruplous employers who started to sell LCs and get people to work like slaves. That being said I have no ill feelings towards people who used the opportunity to get their GCs faster, albeit by puttting in more of their money and/or working like slaves for a better life in the future (hopefully). EB3 to EB2 portability is someone trying to better his/her life after suffering in the queue forever and I have no issues with such people.

I, therefore, cannot support this case. BTW, I am an EB2-I with Sep. 2006 PD.

My first and only post on this issue.

Bkarnik

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 10:50 AM
The moment I get sufficient number of people I am going all out.
But as a compromise, I have got a very simple and easy way out...I can tell you one thing, I do have a case which does not require any law change but just the interpretation of it.

Make sure that 5882 is successful. If it proceeds, I will back down. It is a shame that among 25K members raising 5K becomes a challenge.

This goes on to show there is no community. If there is not community then I have to look after my interest.

GCapplicant
08-07-2008, 10:56 AM
I am in EB3 and I have no intention to port my PD to EB2.I strongly believe we are in the last fag of the problem.

Why do you want to spoil others chances?- Are you scared or what?

This shows another example why we are not united.

If DOL had only cleared those poor old needed filers without opening a backlog ,EB3 woudn't have become a laughing stock by you fellows.There was not much big difference between EB2 and EB3 earlier years before.

That was the reason most of us agreed when we filed under EB3.

If they hadnt wasted the visas -EB3 and EB2 should have diff of 2 years only.
Thats the reason why EB3 is mad now.

Whatever - People supporting this cause are mere selfish.

If the EB3 guy wants to port to EB2 whats yr problem -

Already EB2 is flooded with applications -Most of them know what is happening and people want only EB2 status.Thankfully there are real IV members who are against this.

There are more exerienced and qualified EB3 people than me too.Dont spoil others future.

Lol! down this act and get rid of the attitude.There is no success in such selfish decisions.

Like how you need GC everyone needs GC to stay in this country.

you have no right to bring distress to another person's life.

Infact your are motivating EB3 to move to EB2 .

Thankyou.

Work with IV !

virtual55
08-07-2008, 10:57 AM
Think about Aman, he is still working for the benefit of EB community even though he got his greencard, I have US Masters degree but I don't support this.

Abhinaym
08-07-2008, 10:59 AM
Notes:
If you already have applied in EB2 you won't be affected.
If you have a Masters you won't be affected.

I have a small doubt here. I'm still trying to understand this porting business. Why is that those who have already applied in EB2/Masters will not be affected?

If people with earlier PD port to EB2, it will make my processing longer, no? (IFF my PD is later than theirs')

I'm not for or against this action of yours, but just curious about your assertion. Please let me know.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 11:01 AM
I am no Gandhi and don't want to be one. I am just a common man trying to make my ends meet. Only thing I know is that if you come before me in the line I am affected. It is not a DMV line where every one will get their License, it is a ration line where the items are limited.
Call it selfish call it any thing else but these are the facts after being in the USA for last 12 years and two different labors.

Think about Aman, he is still working for the benefit of EB community even though he got his greencard, I have US Masters degree but I don't support this.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 11:04 AM
Good question:
The idea here is to prevent people in EB3 line to come in EB2 line. If you are already in EB2 line your are not affected. If you have masters you should be able to port.
I have a small doubt here. I'm still trying to understand this porting business. Why is that those who have already applied in EB2/Masters will not be affected?

If people with earlier PD port to EB2, it will make my processing longer, no? (IFF my PD is later than theirs')

I'm not for or against this action of yours, but just curious about your assertion. Please let me know.

gc28262
08-07-2008, 11:09 AM
LC substitution was wrong because it became a business thing for some unscruplous employers who started to sell LCs and get people to work like slaves.
Bkarnik

LC substitution is not wrong if you look at what it was intended to do. Employment based greencard application is an employer's application and he has the right to give it to whomever he wants to.( especially when an employee leaves him)

The issue was that this provision was misused by many employers.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 11:09 AM
These are the red dots and comments I have got so far:
Calling US educated and... 08-07-2008 10:54 AM anti-immigrant in the making
Calling US educated and... 08-07-2008 10:30 AM
Calling US educated and... 08-07-2008 10:24 AM Selfish!!!
Calling US educated and... 08-07-2008 09:37 AM very disappointing post.
Calling US educated and... 08-07-2008 03:12 AM From your post one thing is clear, you are an embodiment of selfishness. Oh by the way, I am also an EB2 guy who could benefit from your proposal. After GC, what is next stop? NumbersUSA ?

gjoe
08-07-2008, 11:12 AM
I guess everybody should support Rolling and Sunny because this initative will create an opening for all other immigration issues.
Everyone waiting for years to get their GC has a real reason to think why USCIS didn't do their job right.
I would say if Sunny and Rolling stone really file a lawsuit, it is like they turning the spotlight on USCIS and from there the rest us can work to bring more light to the bigger issues with USCIS

reddymjm
08-07-2008, 11:15 AM
These are the red dots and comments I have got so far:
Calling US educated and... 08-07-2008 10:54 AM anti-immigrant in the making
Calling US educated and... 08-07-2008 10:30 AM
Calling US educated and... 08-07-2008 10:24 AM Selfish!!!
Calling US educated and... 08-07-2008 09:37 AM very disappointing post.
Calling US educated and... 08-07-2008 03:12 AM From your post one thing is clear, you are an embodiment of selfishness. Oh by the way, I am also an EB2 guy who could benefit from your proposal. After GC, what is next stop? NumbersUSA ?

To get More greens and Sympathy.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 11:16 AM
Thank you , you are the first one to understand my message.
Thousands of people are paying thousands of dollars to port to EB2 but they can't spare even a shameful 5 bucks to support a truly great initiative.
By the way , I am serious about lawsuit. As it will block an easy way out for most people.
I guess everybody should support Rolling and Sunny because this initative will create an opening for all other immigration issues.
Everyone waiting for years to get their GC has a real reason to think why USCIS didn't do their job right.
I would say if Sunny and Rolling stone really file a lawsuit, it is like they turning the spotlight on USCIS and from there the rest us can work to bring more light to the bigger issues with USCIS

brshankar
08-07-2008, 11:16 AM
I am no Gandhi and don't want to be one. I am just a common man trying to make my ends meet. Only thing I know is that if you come before me in the line I am affected. It is not a DMV line where every one will get their License, it is a ration line where the items are limited.
Call it selfish call it any thing else but these are the facts after being in the USA for last 12 years and two different labors.

You are correct this is a selfish world. I support you. You are most welcome to go ahead with the lawsuit. I am EB3 and been here for 10 years and have no intention of porting to EB2. I will be most happy to see you get your GC.

May be I am being selfish too because I dont want any EB3 to jump up the line before me. :D

"76% of the people oppose this initiate, this is something to feel positive about". This shows that we are still united.

gc28262
08-07-2008, 11:17 AM
Only thing I know is that if you come before me in the line I am affected. It is not a DMV line where every one will get their License, it is a ration line where the items are limited.
Call it selfish call it any thing else but these are the facts after being in the USA for last 12 years and two different labors.

You have every right to look after yourself. But it should not be at the expense of your comrades who are affected by this unjust system more than you are.

Solution: direct your ire against the system that is unjust to you. ( USCIS, DOL, Gov etc). That is what IV is trying to do. Let them give enough visa numbers for EB based applicants.

If many of the great leaders of the world were as selfish as we are, we would all be a herd of animals.

NKR
08-07-2008, 11:18 AM
Only thing I know is that if you come before me in the line I am affected.

If you can call it EB2 line, yes he will come before you. On the other hand an EB3 guy calls it ‘GC’ line and says that you come later with a Masters and go before him in the line. It depends on which way you look at it.

I know now you will ask me “will years spent on masters have no value”, EB3 guys will ask you “will years spent working have no value”?. Then you will ask why should they get benefited twice?, 1 in terms of getting into EB2 category and 2 in terms of using old date that was meant for different skill/category. That brings us to the first argument, EB3 guy says if I do not do that then you will get GC first though you got into the GC queue later. The arguments will never end

Call it selfish call it any thing else but these are the facts after being in the USA for last 12 years and two different labors.

Probably you couldn’t but I wish you had ported.

reddymjm
08-07-2008, 11:21 AM
Any way this will fail. Lets see at what point it fails...

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 11:22 AM
But what if it is successful... What will happen then...
Any way this will fail. Lets see at what point it fails...

gjoe
08-07-2008, 11:25 AM
I am saying there are problems with USCIS not just the one you are pointing out.
My point is if more and more people like you file lawsuits against USCIS for the different kinds of injustice they think USCIS, DOL and DOS had brought on them, we ( all EB categories)will be in better shape to fight together for the bigger cause which is more predictable process and processing and closing as many loopholes as possible in the employment GC journey.

Thank you , you are the first one to understand my message.
Thousands of people are paying thousands of dollars to port to EB2 but they can't spare even a shameful 5 bucks to support a truly great initiative.
By the way , I am serious about lawsuit. As it will block an easy way out for most people.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 11:25 AM
Then why do we have different categories then...
If you can call it EB2 line, yes he will come before you. On the other hand an EB3 guy calls it ‘GC’ line and says that you come later with a Masters and go before him in the line. It depends on which way you look at it.

NKR
08-07-2008, 11:26 AM
But what if it is successful... What will happen then...

Then you will get GC faster though you had cut the GC line. What else...

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 11:27 AM
Which ever way it works, as long as it works...
I am saying there are problems with USCIS not just the one you are pointing out.
My point is if more and more people like you file lawsuits against USCIS for the different kinds of injustice they think USCIS, DOL and DOS had brought on them, we ( all EB categories)will be in better shape to fight together for the bigger cause which is more predictable process and processing and closing as many loopholes as possible in the employment GC journey.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 11:28 AM
Not cutting line my friend, just standing and waiting paitently in line for my number to come.
Then you will get GC faster though you had cut the GC line. What else...

willwin
08-07-2008, 11:34 AM
But what if it is successful... What will happen then...

May be you will fall from your bed!

Wake up dude, enough of day dreaming.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 11:40 AM
Zindagi hai to khwab hai
Khwab hai to manzile hain
Manzile hai to hosla hai
Hosla hai to vishwas hai

(If there is life there is a dream
If there is a dream there are milestones
If there are mileston there is enthusasm
If there is enthusasm there is a confidence )

May be you will fall from your bed!

Wake up dude, enough of day dreaming.

EndlessWait
08-07-2008, 11:41 AM
There is a difference between laws and regulations. Laws are what in INA (Immigration and Naturalization Act) and Regulations are what in CFR.
It takes congress and senate to change laws where as it takes discretion to change regulations. And the good news is that discretion can be challenged.
There is another thread on the issue and some of us think that we do have a case. Initial response from a certain lawyer has been positive.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20669
The affected parties (i.e. us) need to show damage in certain way and I do have some points that can be used. Our primary point is that the spirit of law has not been upheld.

Following are the steps in making this a reality:
a) Gather around 50 people
b) Develop and finalize draft of the case. Rolling_Flood has a initial draft.
c) Hold initial consultation with a lawyer.
d) Decide as a team if we want to continue.
e) File a class action suit
Not sure what is the total cost but given the years of wait and uncertainty $500 per person should be reasonable. I will also create a yahoo group to start these discussions.

Notes:
If you already have applied in EB2 you won't be affected.
If you have a Masters you won't be affected.

Its sad to see this policy is working. Divide on EB3/EB2 bases etc. We are fighting a common cause to eliminate employment based country quota system. I'm surprised that IV is allowing such threads to be posted. If it so, its a v sad day for IV.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 11:45 AM
Its sad to see this policy is working. Divide on EB3/EB2 bases etc. We are fighting a common cause to eliminate employment based country quota system. I'm surprised that IV is allowing such threads to be posted. If it so, its a v sad day for IV.

Read your post again, we are already divided. Why would ROW candidate want to eleminate country quota and let you be in front of him...

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 11:49 AM
Here are the list of divisions we have
Row vs Non Row
Eb2 Vs Eb3
EB2NIW Vs Eb2
US Master vs Non US Masters
RIR vs Non RIR
Nurse vs others
etc etce...

NKR
08-07-2008, 11:53 AM
Not cutting line my friend, just standing and waiting paitently in line for my number to come.

An EB3 guy had waited patiently after getting into GC queue and you come later with your masters and go ahead of him, isn;t this cutting the GC line?.

gjoe
08-07-2008, 11:54 AM
Sunny and Rolling came out as selfish to the majority of the members because they just focused on their issues first and identified some of the root causes for their long wait.
I think we should all atleast encourage them in their pursuit for justice. We have nothing to lose. When a specific group works on an issue which is affecting them most they would do the best to get that fixed.
This would motivate other smaller groups with other issues to take up theirs seperately. The more this happens the more heat it will generate on these 3 agencies DOL, USCIS and DOS.
Then we as a bigger organization can work much faster on getting the bigger issues resolved which in turn will fix lots of these smaller things in the system.
These kind of initatives are a win win for everybody. Every small step would help us go move towards our goal instead of trying to take one gaint step and getting bogged down.

PS: Waiting for miracles is onething for people who trust in God
But acting on ones own issue can get them closer to that miracle

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 11:59 AM
If people can move freely between the categories then Why do we have categories?...:confused:
An EB3 guy had waited patiently after getting into GC queue and you come later with your masters and go ahead of him, isn;t this cutting the GC line?.

alias
08-07-2008, 12:00 PM
is mentally sick. I am an EB2 and I think this is the sickest idea I have ever heard. What the f@#k is your problem, are you paranoid that you are going to loose your job real soon, why do you need a GC sooner, how is it going to change your sorry life. Dude just concentrate on your work and family; don't try to be a hero for no f#%k'n cause!

akela_topchi
08-07-2008, 12:01 PM
Height of selfishness....

It is amazing that how these people are ready to spend tons of money and time for such selfish causes.

If this kind of enthusiasm is displayed on IV action items and contributions then there would be better chances of achieving the goals of this community.

People who created this forum, which is helping this community so much, have been working for years.. selflessly.. spending time and money and effort many times spending their own money for the causes of this community.. people like Aman, Pappu, Pascal, logiclife et al... There are lots of people in this community who thought about the community first.

If they were like you.. then things would have been worse.

But, if you are so hell bent on putting your GC first, irrespective of the damage to the cause of the community, if you are so mad about yourself.. why do you care about polling.. Go alone.. just focus on "you and your GC" .. achieve something alone.. You can then keep all the benefits to yourself.. all yours..Go ahead!

Just like your campaign, the fundamentals on which you run it, cannot be trusted.. because if it suits you, you'll sell you supporter's interests for your own GC.

That's why you get support from very few....


This forum was created on better fundamentals.. Here community comes first.
That is why IV and those who created this forum have support of thousands!

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:01 PM
I am the later...
Many of us are prone to extreme selfishness. You could be a numberusa guy or really frustrated EB applicant.

jchan
08-07-2008, 12:03 PM
As a US Educated Master and originally EB2 filer. I think this is one of the most stupid action ever within the EB community. So you think we are not weak enough and want to divide us more?

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:07 PM
May be but when I do the math the benefit of getting GC in time outweighs the pain taken now.
Height of selfishness....

It is amazing that how these people are ready to spend tons of money and time for such selfish causes.



And how do you know , I have not?


If this kind of enthusiasm is displayed on IV action items and contributions then there would be better chances of achieving the goals of this community.


What damage can it cause to others, I am the victim here...

But, if you are so hell bent on putting your GC first, irrespective of the damage to the cause of the community, if you are so mad about yourself.. why do you care about polling.. Go alone.. just focus on "you and your GC" .. achieve something alone.. You can then keep all the benefits to yourself.. all yours..Go ahead!


There are no supportes only plaintiffs.

Just like your campaign, the fundamentals on which you run it, cannot be trusted.. because if it suits you, you'll sell you supporter's interests for your own GC.


I got time...

That's why you get support from very few....


Whereas those who created this forum have support of thousands!

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:09 PM
No, I just don't want people in Eb3 line to come as stand in front of me.
As a US Educated Master and originally EB2 filer. I think this is one of the most stupid action ever within the EB community. So you think we are not weak enough and want to divide us more?

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:10 PM
Yes, that is the part of the problem
are you paranoid that you are going to loose your job real soon, why do you need a GC sooner, how is it going to change your sorry life.

akela_topchi
08-07-2008, 12:11 PM
Knowingly, or unknowingly, you are dividing this community on meager self-interests. That's the worst somebody can do to IV.

We don't need NumbersUSA to divide us when people like you are here...

alias
08-07-2008, 12:13 PM
Yes, that is the part of the problem

Dude, if that is your problem you should be in EB10, you can't even perform your job well and therefore should be under least desired category...

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:16 PM
First NumberUSA don't divide us , it unites us as it is the common enemy.
Second, the reason we all are lurking on this forum is that we want something in return. We are united as long as our goals are the same. Some compromise can be done but if one has to do compromise in terms of several years it is not acceptable
Knowingly, or unknowingly, you are dividing this community on meager self-interests. That's the worst somebody can do to IV.

We don't need NumbersUSA to divide us when people like you are here...

akela_topchi
08-07-2008, 12:19 PM
Then why the heck are you still spending your time here..
Go somewhere else.. where your interests are better aligned..

Don't divide us.. We've enough problems already.

if NumbersUSA unites us.. and you divide us.. then I am sorry to say.. but I hate you more than I hate NumbersUSA.

gc_maine2
08-07-2008, 12:20 PM
Very well said. Thats what they do once they GC, there motto is " I want GC and Nobody else should get it". Sad very sad......

Ths poll should be changed to

Do you want to turn into an anti-immigrant when you get your greencard?
Yes I am in
No I am out

Shame on those who votes yes.

sroyc
08-07-2008, 12:23 PM
As I've mentioned in Rolling_Flood's thread, this issue has some merit and needs to be discussed. My personal take on this is that if you were eligible for an EB2 position at the time of filing the EB3 petition, you should be allowed to interfile.

I'm probably not going to participate in the lawsuit because I don't want to divide an already weakened community. Neither will I try to stop it because I think it raises some valid questions.

I personally think that IV needs to make some changes and the first step would be to stop quoting figures like "we have 25K members" when the reality is that hardly 200 people participate in the call campaigns and it was due to random strangers that we were able to collect 5000 signatures for the administrative fixes. Most people come to IV to get some easy answers or to pass time by playing some games like the visa bulletin predictions game or the identify the TSC approval pattern game, etc. Only the core is working relentlessly for us besides a handful of volunteers. I think that there are enough agony aunts for immigration issues and IV should be exclusively for immigration related lobbying and legislation. It's the only way we can get rid of the 25K - 200 people who do nothing and then focus on the real issues.

malaGCPahije
08-07-2008, 12:24 PM
If people can move freely between the categories then Why do we have categories?...:confused:

How are people moving "freely" between categories? Man, if this was so "free" then would we have anyone at all in EB3 and even EB2...everyone would have moved to EB1 !!

I do not think it is that "free". I personally do not think anyone would move jobs ONLY to move from EB3 to EB2. The move to EB2 could be a side-effect for a job move that was done for a whole different reason.

Everyone has the right to do what they feel is the right thing. I feel supporting IV is right and hence have participated in each campaign from the time I joined. Sunny and Rolling are doing what they feel is right.

I do believe in "As you sow, so you reap". Do good, get good in return (tried to translate 'kar bhala, ho bhala'). You all know whether what you are doing is right or wrong. When you reap the result of it, just remember that you got what you sowed. Be happy.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:24 PM
I don't think that either, but as long as they are willing to fund my operation in part or otherwise, I am good to go...

Do you seriously think any of these people will become plantiff and risk their greencard applcation? Because by becoming plantiff their application will be scrutinzed and further delayed.
.

I am open to reveal anyone my identity and discuss my plans who has voted Yes

If these people rolling flood and sunnysurya were confident, they would have posted their name and phone number till now for everyone. These guys are cowards. I bet their profile will also be annonymous.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:27 PM
Thats fair and one compromise I am willing to make...
As I've mentioned in Rolling_Flood's thread, this issue has some merit and needs to be discussed. My personal take on this is that if you were eligible for an EB2 position at the time of filing the EB3 petition, you should be allowed to interfile..

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:28 PM
Don't know if it is going to be that fast, I need aroung 50 victims. But we are getting there.
I challange you to file this lawsuit in the month of august.

Let us see if you really are a man of word and action.

imbond707
08-07-2008, 12:29 PM
SunnySurya and Rollling_Fraud,

Good news for your guys. I am EB3 but recently my labor got approved in EB2 and very soon I am going to port PD from old labor. :DHa..:Dha..:Dha..You can’t stop me and very soon I am going to stand in front of you in EB line.

Note: Please post your reply ASAP. I am compiling your posts and will send this in ‘Best Joke of the Year’ challenge.


No, I just don't want people in Eb3 line to come as stand in front of me.

NKR
08-07-2008, 12:32 PM
Ok guys, I got a bunch of red dots.. what more can you expect from people whose comments are as below...
********************
bitch, wtf "Rolling_Flood"

stop making dumb arguments. if you don't like this thread stay away from it.

you have no clue who gives you reds and greens, don't presume. plenty of people quietly read and can spot out the rubbish. and no one can give two reds in a row, so i'm another person. Glad to see acceptance finally that PhDs are being disadvantaged

****************************

1. Rolling_Flood, with this temper I am sure you are going to piss off your lawyer with whom you would be working (if at all you do..) on getting portability removed.
2. “if you don't like this thread stay away from it." Lots of people disagree, that does not mean that only people who agree with you can post here. Also, how will I know if I am going to like the thread or not without visiting it?, everybody except a handful are posting something interesting, I like this thread

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:33 PM
Good for you...
People there are thousands of cases like this. Most of them in 2002,2003,2004 and 2005 range..SunnySurya and Rollling_Fraud,

Good news for your guys. I am EB3 but recently my labor got approved in EB2 and very soon I am going to port PD from old labor. :DHa..:Dha..:Dha..You can’t stop me and very soon I am going to stand in front of you in EB line.

Note: Please post your reply ASAP. I am compiling your posts and will send this in ‘Best Joke of the Year’ challenge.

Abhinaym
08-07-2008, 12:35 PM
Good news for your guys. I am EB3 but recently my labor got approved in EB2 and very soon I am going to port PD from old labor. :DHa..:Dha..:Dha..You can’t stop me and very soon I am going to stand in front of you in EB line.



How come you couldn't file in eb2 in the first place? Not a personal statement, but I'm still trying to understand this matter.

alias
08-07-2008, 12:37 PM
It's funny how many types of personalities you see in everyday life. I remember in my early childhood days there always use to be one guy at the least in my class who would do things that would freak everybody out....usually he would be the teacher's cutest student. But once the teacher was out.....maan his ass was all red in the hostel, in the class.....just kept running away from every other fellow student.....

gccovet
08-07-2008, 12:37 PM
I don't think that either, but as long as they are willing to fund my operation in part or otherwise, I am good to go...


I am open to reveal anyone my identity and discuss my plans who has voted Yes


I was not planning to file for EB2, but after all this hoopla you have created, I got highly motivated. I am going ahead with it. I don't know your PD, I hope, really hope it is later then 5/04 as I will interfile to EB2... very soon.....stop me if you can!!!

GCCovet

gccovet
08-07-2008, 12:38 PM
I was not planning to file for EB2, but after all this hoopla you have created, I got highly motivated. I am going ahead with it. I don't know your PD, I hope, really hope it is later then 5/04 as I will interfile to EB2... very soon.....stop me if you can!!!

GCCovet

And Yes!!! I care a damn about RED dots, give me as many as you can! I just can't stop laughing at you and rolling stone.

GCCovet

lord_labaku
08-07-2008, 12:40 PM
Dude. I am US educated & EB2....1st I didnt understand what u were calling people for.

Man this is the story of the Indian crab in real life. If someone becomes eligible to interfile as EB2...why should you be against it?

I am totally against ur proposal...and am giving u red dots ok.

Sarve Jana sukhino bavanthu - Let everyone be content & happy.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:42 PM
Good for you..

People yet another case who is going to crossover to the EB2 line...

I was not planning to file for EB2, but after all this hoopla you have created, I got highly motivated. I am going ahead with it. I don't know your PD, I hope, really hope it is later then 5/04 as I will interfile to EB2... very soon.....stop me if you can!!!

GCCovet

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:46 PM
Thanks for your red dots... May I ask, what do mean by becoming eligible?
If they can file in Eb2 , shouldn't they stand in the end of line.

Reason most people filed in EB3 was that it was thought that their application will be subjected to less scrutny and had higher chances of success. Also, so far EB3 has been moving in tandem with Eb2, so it did not matter.

Dude. I am US educated & EB2....1st I didnt understand what u were calling people for.

Man this is the story of the Indian crab in real life. If someone becomes eligible to interfile as EB2...why should you be against it?

I am totally against ur proposal...and am giving u red dots ok.

Sarve Jana sukhino bavanthu - Let everyone be content & happy.

The7zen
08-07-2008, 12:46 PM
The moment I get sufficient number of people I am going all out.
But as a compromise, I have got a very simple and easy way out...I can tell you one thing, I do have a case which does not require any law change but just the interpretation of it.

Make sure that 5882 is successful. If it proceeds, I will back down. It is a shame that among 25K members raising 5K becomes a challenge.

This goes on to show there is no community. If there is not community then I have to look after my interest.

Stupid is as stupid does

How about going after EAD's, because of the 2007 july fiasco many people were fortunate enough to get an EAD, now they are competing with you in the job market....how about filing a law suit against that ? to cut the competion ....looks like you have plenty of time.

akela_topchi
08-07-2008, 12:46 PM
So what are you waiting for.. run to a good law-firm and file a lawsuit or class-action or whatever.. Stop looking at the screen.. run... Your GC is in peril!


Good for you..

People yet another case who is going to crossover to the EB2 line...

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:47 PM
No, I have the conviction, but don't have money...
If you need 50 people to support you then your own convictions are weak.


You do not need 50 people to file class action. There is no minimum number. You can do it yourself too.

brshankar
08-07-2008, 12:47 PM
Ok guys, I got a bunch of red dots.. what more can you expect from people whose comments are as below...
********************
bitch, wtf "Rolling_Flood"

stop making dumb arguments. if you don't like this thread stay away from it.

you have no clue who gives you reds and greens, don't presume. plenty of people quietly read and can spot out the rubbish. and no one can give two reds in a row, so i'm another person. Glad to see acceptance finally that PhDs are being disadvantaged

****************************

1. Rolling_Flood, with this temper I am sure you are going to piss off your lawyer with whom you would be working (if at all you do..) on getting portability removed.
2. “if you don't like this thread stay away from it. Lots of people disagree, that does not mean that only people who agree with you can post here. Also, how will I know if I am going to like the thread or not without visiting it?.


NKR Dude,

I give you a green.

Some guys dont have the guts to come out openly in the forum to accuse us because they know that they will be banned by moderators. They just give us red dots and call us all sorts of names like moron and ....... in private.

Everybody has the right to disapprove a post but they have no right to use bad language.

Hope these guys understand this is a forum for good cause and they are misusing it.

Thanks

imbond707
08-07-2008, 12:49 PM
This response is not funny enough. Sorry can’t send it for ‘Best Joke of the Year’ challenge. Better luck next time.:D

Good for you...
People there are thousands of cases like this. Most of them in 2002,2003,2004 and 2005 range..

anai
08-07-2008, 12:50 PM
I am EB2-I with a couple of US grad degrees (and same undergrad school as Rolling Flood, not that it matters to anyone except perhaps those who suppor the lawsuit). And I think this lawsuit is a bad idea because it is divisive and petty.

There is an old Malayalam story that most people who went to school in Kerala would have read in their primary school classes. Two guys, Greedy and Jealous, pray to God. God appears and Greedy goes, "I just want double of what you give the other guy. All I want to be is to be ahead of him." Hearing this, Jealous says, "God, please make me blind in one eye."

This lawsuit, like the story above, is a case of knifing others in the back, for no real gain. We should instead try to leverage IV's large membership for a common good, which is what has made IV successful so far.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:51 PM
Yes, my GC is in Peril and thats exactly what I am trying to do...
So what are you waiting for.. run to a good law-firm and file a lawsuit or class-action or whatever.. Stop looking at the screen.. run... Your GC is in peril!

kumarc123
08-07-2008, 12:52 PM
Man...looks like you will turn anti-immigrant once you get US citizenship.
Whats your real problem?

HAHa:)
Good one

akela_topchi
08-07-2008, 12:52 PM
Story is too good :-)

Ha ha ha ..



I am EB2-I with a couple of US grad degrees (and same undergrad school as Rolling Flood, not that it matters to anyone except perhaps those who suppor the lawsuit). And I think this lawsuit is a bad idea because it is divisive and petty.

There is an old Malayalam story that most people who went to school in Kerala would have read in their primary school classes. Two guys, Greedy and Jealous, pray to God. God appears and Greedy goes, "I just want double of what you give the other guy. All I want to be is to be ahead of him." Hearing this, Jealous says, "God, please make me blind in one eye."

This lawsuit, like the story above, is a case of knifing others in the back, for no real gain. We should instead try to leverage IV's large membership for a common good, which is what has made IV successful so far.

alias
08-07-2008, 12:52 PM
No, I have the conviction, but don't have money...


HAHAHAHAHAH......WHAT A JOKER!

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 12:52 PM
I am impressed by your qualifications, what is your PD?
I am EB2-I with a couple of US grad degrees (and same undergrad school as Rolling Flood, not that it matters to anyone except perhaps those who suppor the lawsuit). And I think this lawsuit is a bad idea because it is divisive and petty.

There is an old Malayalam story that most people who went to school in Kerala would have read in their primary school classes. Two guys, Greedy and Jealous, pray to God. God appears and Greedy goes, "I just want double of what you give the other guy. All I want to be is to be ahead of him." Hearing this, Jealous says, "God, please make me blind in one eye."

This lawsuit, like the story above, is a case of knifing others in the back, for no real gain. We should instead try to leverage IV's large membership for a common good, which is what has made IV successful so far.

mpadapa
08-07-2008, 12:54 PM
U are saying - The person's GC category should be same all through out the GC process, irrespective of the technical advancements the person make during the course of the GC process. A person is porting only because he is qualified for the category, U folks are talking as if there is an open slot and everyone is clamoring for it.

U'r logic should be similar to the below scenario..

A person joins a company as a Jr. Engineer, then based on U'r logic he/she cannot become a Manager (which requires an MBA / equivalent) because he entered the workforce as a Jr. Engg. Even though the fellow would've acquired necessary skills and even MBA (going part-time to school), still he/she cannot become a Manager. U are vouching that an MBA who joined few months earlier can become the Manager but not the home groomed fellow. Wow, U'r logic seems to a ground breaking thought process, please extrapolate U'r lawsuit for the case mentioned above. If you win, this might be the most ground breaking decision in US.

Personally I've reported to folks who joined company as high-school grads and worked their way up to Managerial position ofcoz acquiring the necessary college education while working. They have shown up those experience to move ahead of other folks who joined later with higher degrees.

sunnysurya and rollingflood,
Rather than focusing on divisive efforts why can't you focus on real problem - retrogression. Why don't you work towards IV's goals? You folks joined the forum few months back and have already made great impact. Hope you would channel U'r energy into something positive for the entire community.

akela_topchi
08-07-2008, 12:54 PM
I thought you already left for the law firm...

I am impressed by your qualifications, what is your PD?

brshankar
08-07-2008, 12:56 PM
Yes, my GC is in Peril and thats exactly what I am trying to do...

Dude,

Looks like Rolling_Flood has not yet voted on this poll. I thought he will be the first Yes for this poll.

Are you guys planning to file separate lawsuits?

akela_topchi
08-07-2008, 01:02 PM
I think he can just talk the talk.. it takes backbone to walk the walk.

These people are causing fissures in the community for their petty self-interests... just by plain talk.. It took years to build it.. and we see some hope because of what IV has achieved and things that are in pipeline.

At this critical juncture, if people are causing rift in the community and trying to sabotage our campaigns then such people need to be challenged.

if we are united we can achieve a lot!
United we succeed and divided we fail!!


Dude,

Looks like Rolling_Flood has not yet voted on this poll. I thought he will be the first Yes for this poll.

Are you guys planning to file separate lawsuits?

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 01:09 PM
No thats not what I am saying. Let me repeat what I am saying and this comes out of the draft I am working with a lawyer
The interpretation of the intent of the law by USCIS is flawed and should be reconsidered given the enormous backlogs in various categories.

1. If the people are allowed to move between the categories it will just move the backlog from one line to another penalizing the ones already in that line.
2. It does not provides an equal opportunity to the people already in that line to move to other category who are patiently waiting for their turn.
3. The porting is subject to gaming and the people who know how to work the system will be the most benefitted by this.
4. It will also eleminate any potential for the spill of visa numbers from Eb2 to Eb3 category as Eb2 itself will be backlogged

It should be noted that the immigration benefits are associated with a job requirements and not a person's qualifications. Changing a GC category should not be allowed except in certain extraordinary circumstances and through appropriate changes in the law.

Mpadap, your arguments are valid but not pertinent to what I am trying to do. If a person becomes elligible , he/she must be allowed to apply for the positions matching his qualifications. Only thing is that he should not benefit from the portability of PD.

U are saying - The person's GC category should be same all through out the GC process, irrespective of the technical advancements the person make during the course of the GC process. A person is porting only because he is qualified for the category, U folks are talking as if there is an open slot and everyone is clamoring for it.

U'r logic should be similar to the below scenario..

A person joins a company as a Jr. Engineer, then based on U'r logic he/she cannot become a Manager (which requires an MBA / equivalent) because he entered the workforce as a Jr. Engg. Even though the fellow would've acquired necessary skills and even MBA (going part-time to school), still he/she cannot become a Manager. U are vouching that an MBA who joined few months earlier can become the Manager but not the home groomed fellow. Wow, U'r logic seems to a ground breaking thought process, please extrapolate U'r lawsuit for the case mentioned above. If you win, this might be the most ground breaking decision in US.

Personally I've reported to folks who joined company as high-school grads and worked their way up to Managerial position ofcoz acquiring the necessary college education while working. They have shown up those experience to move ahead of other folks who joined later with higher degrees.

sunnysurya and rollingflood,
Rather than focusing on divisive efforts why can't you focus on real problem - retrogression. Why don't you work towards IV's goals? You folks joined the forum few months back and have already made great impact. Hope you would channel U'r energy into something positive for the entire community.

alias
08-07-2008, 01:15 PM
No thats not what I am saying. Let me repeat what I am saying and this comes out of the draft I am working with a lawyer
The interpretation of the intent of the law by USCIS is flawed and should be reconsidered given the enormous backlogs in various categories.

1. If the people are allowed to move between the categories it will just move the backlog from one line to another penalizing the ones already in that line.
2. It does not provides an equal opportunity to the people already in that line to move to other category who are patiently waiting for their turn.
3. The porting is subject to gaming and the people who know how to work the system will be the most benefitted by this.
4. It will also eleminate any potential for the spill of visa numbers from Eb2 to Eb3 category as Eb2 itself will be backlogged

It should be noted that the immigration benefits are associated with a job requirements and not a person's qualifications. Changing a GC category should not be allowed except in certain extraordinary circumstances and through appropriate changes in the law.

Mpadap, your arguments are valid but not pertinent to what I am trying to do. If a person becomes elligible , he/she must be allowed to apply for the positions matching his qualifications. Only thing is that he should not benefit from the portability of PD.

your gramar buddy, This thread is getting funny ...

dba9ioracle
08-07-2008, 01:16 PM
All,

Lets do another flower campaign to wish get well soon to SunnySurya and Rooling_flood.

Get well soon Mamu...

gccovet
08-07-2008, 01:23 PM
Good for you..

People yet another case who is going to crossover to the EB2 line...

Sunny ,
What is your PD???

funny
08-07-2008, 01:25 PM
Good for you..

People yet another case who is going to crossover to the EB2 line...

I am reading both of these stupid threads, I just couldn't stop replying to both of them.

I have also applied for PD Porting myself, I have sent the letetr to TSC requesting the Porting on my approved I140's, My EB3 PD is Oct 2003.

I seriously hope that your PD is older than Oct 2003, Otherwise I am going to Jump in front of you and will cut the line. do you know how many years it have been since oct 2003, Its 5 YEARS and you think that changing lanes is unfair here, all the people who are trying to port the PD's must have been waiting for atleat 4-5 years, You think that experience is not worth anything in their next job and they don't qualify for EB2 or are less smart than any of your "supporting friends".

brshankar
08-07-2008, 01:28 PM
All,

Lets do another flower campaign to wish get well soon to SunnySurya and Rooling_flood.

Get well soon Mamu...


If you look at the profile of the members who voted yes in this poll. They all have EB2 PD from June 2006 to 2007 except one or two. These guys will never understand the wait of a 2001 or 2002 filer. They dont know what it means to wait in limbo for years.

Can you guys who voted yes please share your qualifications and the kind of work you are doing?

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 01:30 PM
Good for you...

People if you don't wake up now it will be too late. There are thousands of cases like this...
I am reading both of these stupid threads, I just couldn't stop replying to both of them.

I have also applied for PD Porting myself, I have sent the letetr to TSC requesting the Porting on my approved I140's, My EB3 PD is Oct 2003.

I seriously hope that your PD is older than Oct 2003, Otherwise I am going to Jump in front of you and will cut the line. do you know how many years it have been since oct 2003, Its 5 YEARS and you think that changing lanes is unfair here, all the people who are trying to port the PD's must have been waiting for atleat 4-5 years, You think that experience is not worth anything in their next job and they don't qualify for EB2 or are less smart than any of your "supporting friends".

desi3933
08-07-2008, 01:30 PM
Let me add my 2cents here.

This came up when I was discussing this topic with my lawyer friend -

Person can still file for GC when he/she is at school in eb3 and after finishing school, he/she can file another one for EB2 and can port the date to earlier PD, just like eb3 person who started work instead of going to school. Remember, GC is for the future job and person can not claim that he/she needs to be employed in order for GC to be filed.

Law does provide equal opportunity to both for PD recapture (aka PD porting).

Disclaimer: I am green card holder for 6 years and personally this issue does not affect me.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 01:33 PM
My simple question to you is are you in or are you out. If I rember correctly, you have masters and in Eb2 line...
If you are in, I want to give you call to discuss the logistics..
Ha ha

alias
08-07-2008, 01:38 PM
If you loose your job anytime during the GC process and cannot find another job within 15 days you must leave the country. Since you are fired from the job you are least desired, you are an unproductive hole. This should be tied along with EB2/EB3 category determination so you realy value the right people.

I guess Mr. Sunshine will be out then, he said he is shit scared that he is going to loose his job...Dude, I say go home, NOW, aren't you ashamed about your sorry job....

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 01:40 PM
No I am not!
NOW, aren't you ashamed about your sorry job....

desi3933
08-07-2008, 01:44 PM
...
...


I guess Mr. Sunshine will be out then, he said he is shit scared that he is going to loose his job...Dude, I say go home, NOW, aren't you ashamed about your sorry job....

I strongly disagree with you. No one has right to say to anyone else to go home.

We may not agree with SunnySurya for this lawsuit, but we should keep debate civilized. No personal attacks please.

___________________________
Permanent Resident since 2002

diptam
08-07-2008, 01:44 PM
These 2 folks SunnySurya and Rolling_flood attacked me with RED points because i said the truth on the other thread of "Lawsuit for Porting/Interfiling". Though i least care if someone anonymous gives me Red points but i'm worried about them.....

This is what i wrote in that post which was attacked , what's wrong in it ... Try to digest the truth SunnySurya and Rolling_flood - you can't scare folks like by words of Lawsuit....

............
Lot of our case was exactly like that - i was eligible for EB2 when my Eb3 labor was filed. Employer took advantage of my compromising situation ( H was having 390 days juice left)

If Porting/Interfiling is taken off folks like me will be terribly victimized. I'm here for 9 years - my 1st labor was substituted , 2nd labor ( which should be Eb2 but filed in Eb3) took a round trip from Phily backlog elimination center and now i'm stuck in the Eb3-140 mess at NSC
..........

All,

Lets do another flower campaign to wish get well soon to SunnySurya and Rooling_flood. Get well soon Mamu...

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 01:48 PM
No, I did not give you red dots...Also I don't know who rolling_flood is but he cannot give you red dots either as he has three red dots herself.
These 2 folks SunnySurya and Rolling_flood attacked me with RED points because i said the truth on the other thread of "Lawsuit for Porting/Interfiling". Though i least care if someone anonymous gives me Red points but i'm worried about them.....

This is what i wrote in that post which was attacked , what's wrong in it ... Try to digest the truth SunnySurya and Rolling_flood - you can't scare folks like by words of Lawsuit....

............
Lot of our case was exactly like that - i was eligible for EB2 when my Eb3 labor was filed. Employer took advantage of my compromising situation ( H was having 390 days juice left)

If Porting/Interfiling is taken off folks like me will be terribly victimized. I'm here for 9 years - my 1st labor was substituted , 2nd labor ( which should be Eb2 but filed in Eb3) took a round trip from Phily backlog elimination center and now i'm stuck in the Eb3-140 mess at NSC
..........

desi3933
08-07-2008, 01:48 PM
Let me add my 2cents here.

This came up when I was discussing this topic with my lawyer friend -

Person can still file for GC when he/she is at school in eb3 and after finishing school, he/she can file another one for EB2 and can port the date to earlier PD, just like eb3 person who started work instead of going to school. Remember, GC is for the future job and person can not claim that he/she needs to be employed in order for GC to be filed.

Law does provide equal opportunity to both for PD recapture (aka PD porting).



SunnySurya -

I suggest, you should seriously consider discussing above legal point with your lawyer. I hope you agree with me that in legal court, rationality wins whereas emotions lose.

Good Luck!


Disclaimer: I am green card holder for 6 years and personally this issue does not affect me.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 01:51 PM
Point noted thank you!
SunnySurya -

I suggest, you should seriously consider discussing above legal point with your lawyer. I hope you agree with me that in legal court, rationality wins whereas emotions lose.

Good Luck!


Disclaimer: I am green card holder for 6 years and personally this issue does not affect me.

485Mbe4001
08-07-2008, 01:51 PM
The letter campaign resulted in 5000 odd letters from the entire EB community. This included efforts from some very hardworking IV people who did not spend time on the forums but went out and collected 100s of letters, one collected more than a thousand letters. So i am guessing that not more than 2000 EB folks got their collective butts to participate in the letter campaign.

if you expect EB2 I and the so call US educated (i am too, hence i can use 'so called') folks to stop chatting on the forums and send money and letters in the tens of thousands, then please tell me want you smoke --- i would like to inhale some of that magic too.

good luck towards your efforts. if you make it happen then, in all honesty, i would also like to nominate you to the core team, if you dont then i have a bridge in brooklyn that i want to sell.


Good for you...

People if you don't wake up now it will be too late. There are thousands of cases like this...

soni7007
08-07-2008, 01:54 PM
U are saying - The person's GC category should be same all through out the GC process, irrespective of the technical advancements the person make during the course of the GC process. A person is porting only because he is qualified for the category, U folks are talking as if there is an open slot and everyone is clamoring for it.

U'r logic should be similar to the below scenario..

A person joins a company as a Jr. Engineer, then based on U'r logic he/she cannot become a Manager (which requires an MBA / equivalent) because he entered the workforce as a Jr. Engg. Even though the fellow would've acquired necessary skills and even MBA (going part-time to school), still he/she cannot become a Manager. U are vouching that an MBA who joined few months earlier can become the Manager but not the home groomed fellow. Wow, U'r logic seems to a ground breaking thought process, please extrapolate U'r lawsuit for the case mentioned above. If you win, this might be the most ground breaking decision in US.

Personally I've reported to folks who joined company as high-school grads and worked their way up to Managerial position ofcoz acquiring the necessary college education while working. They have shown up those experience to move ahead of other folks who joined later with higher degrees.

sunnysurya and rollingflood,
Rather than focusing on divisive efforts why can't you focus on real problem - retrogression. Why don't you work towards IV's goals? You folks joined the forum few months back and have already made great impact. Hope you would channel U'r energy into something positive for the entire community.

Ok, i will try to make it as simple as possible:

2 guys (names - JE and MBA respectively) graduate with BS in Engineering in 2001.
Both go to USA in 2002.
JE goes on H1B (as Junior Engineer) while MBA goes for an MBA on F1.

In 2003, JEs company files for his GC, PD 2003, EB3
In 2004, MBA graduates and joins a company as a manager.
In 2005, MBA's company applies for his GC in EB2, PD 2005.

So far so good.

Now, it is 2008. Both are still waiting for their GC.

Ideally, both are in same position (they should be, as both have same amount of exposure to professional world after undergrad - one replaced the work experience by higher degree and vice-versa).

Now, JE wants to port his PD and get into EB2 category with PD 2003. This will make him exactly 2 years ahead of MBA. If he doesn't port, they are approximately in the same situation, so the chances of them getting a GC in 2009 will be same.

What do you think is fair?

P.S. - I do not support this lawsuit.

desi3933
08-07-2008, 01:54 PM
Point noted thank you!


I appreciate that.

May I ask to share your legal defense for this point, when you have one?

Thanks!

Ramba
08-07-2008, 01:56 PM
US court already clearly given vertict to BS+5 years alone itsef qualify for EB2. It was a major ruling against INS.

US educated (or holding master degree) is no way superior than holding BS+5 years experience if job requires more experience . Similarly BS+5 years is no way superior than MS, if job requires absolutly Masters degree (like research).. So dont compare each other, as each has its own merits. Education and experience cannot replace each other.

However, One can send a petition to DOL/USCIS to deny the second LC/140 application if an employer files two LC/I-140 for a single person (same employer -same beneficiary) for a similar kind of job, just to help the employee to line jump from EB3 to EB2. This may work to stop abusing the system.

Read this before you go further ..

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2000_register&docid=fr03jy00-111

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 01:56 PM
You should be working with me to make this happen. I cannot do without you. Think clearly the depth of the issue.
The letter campaign resulted in 5000 odd letters from the entire EB community. This included efforts from some very hardworking IV people who did not spend time on the forums but went out and collected 100s of letters, one collected more than a thousand letters. So i am guessing that not more than 2000 EB folks got their collective butts to participate in the letter campaign.

if you expect EB2 I and the so call US educated (i am too, hence i can use 'so called') folks to stop chatting on the forums and send money and letters in the tens of thousands, then please tell me want you smoke --- i would like to inhale some of that magic too.

good luck towards your efforts. if you make it happen then, in all honesty, i would also like to nominate you to the core team, if you dont then i have a bridge in brooklyn that i want to sell.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 01:57 PM
I definitely will. But first I have to mobilize enough people to support this.
I appreciate that.

May I ask to share your legal defense for this point, when you have one?

Thanks!

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 01:59 PM
I will forward this to my lawyer..
US court already clearly given vertict to BS+5 years alone itsef qualify for EB2. It was a major ruling against INS.

US educated (or holding master degree) is no way superior than holding BS+5 years experience if job requires more experience . Similarly BS+5 years is no way superior than MS, if job requires absolutly Masters degree (like research).. So dont compare each other, as each has its own merits. Education and experience cannot replace each other.

However, One can send a petition to DOL/USCIS to deny the second LC/140 application if an employer files two LC/I-140 for a single person (same employer -same beneficiary) for a similar kind of job, just to help the employee to line jump from EB3 to EB2. This may work to stop abusing the system.

Read this before you go further ..

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2000_register&docid=fr03jy00-111

desi3933
08-07-2008, 02:01 PM
Ok, i will try to make it as simple as possible:

2 guys (names - JE and MBA respectively) graduate with BS in Engineering in 2001.
Both go to USA in 2002.
JE goes on H1B (as Junior Engineer) while MBA goes for an MBA on F1.

In 2003, JEs company files for his GC, PD 2003, EB3
In 2004, MBA graduates and joins a company as a manager.
In 2005, MBA's company applies for his GC in EB2, PD 2005.

So far so good.

Now, it is 2008. Both are still waiting for their GC.

Ideally, both are in same position (they should be, as both have same amount of exposure to professional world after undergrad - one replaced the work experience by higher degree and vice-versa).

Now, JE wants to port his PD and get into EB2 category with PD 2003. This will make him exactly 2 years ahead of MBA. If he doesn't port, they are approximately in the same situation, so the chances of them getting a GC in 2009 will be same.

What do you think is fair?

P.S. - I do not support this lawsuit.


What stopped (from legal stand point) MBA guy to file for eb3 based GC in 2003? Remember both have BS in Engineering at that time. No employer was ready to file GC for the MBA guy (in 2003) is not a valid legal argument.

Remember, one does not need to be employed to file for GC and GC is for the future job.

What do you think is fair?
It is not what you or I think is fair. From legal point of view, both had equal opportunity to file for GC in 2003 for eb3 job. Just because, the MBA person didn't go for it is not a valid argument. Don't you agree?

akela_topchi
08-07-2008, 02:10 PM
To add a few more conditions to the aforesaid situation...

This is 2008.. Both JE and MBA are thinking that they will get their GC in 2009...

Meanwhile they start arguing.. and many like them join their verbal-struggle..
Because of this, IV community is divided.. Earlier only 200 people used to respond to action items .. now because of the rift only 100 do... this weakens the momentum that the campaign had..

Meanwhile, NumbersUSA et all increased their efforts..
Anti-immigration forces are united and under their pressure all the EB relief bills fail...

Election is close USCIS shifts the focus to FB visas..
EB backlog, retrogression goes up..

JE and MBA still fighting their verbal fight... in same line.. still fighting with words... with few more years added to their wait-time.



Ok, i will try to make it as simple as possible:
......
......

P.S. - I do not support this lawsuit.

soni7007
08-07-2008, 02:14 PM
Yes, I agree that not filing GC earlier is not an excuse for MBA. The point is he still would have been in the same situation (EB3, 2003 is not too different from EB2, 2005) in terms of how fast he will get his GC.


What stopped (from legal stand point) MBA guy to file for eb3 based GC in 2003? Remember both have BS in Engineering at that time. No employer was ready to file GC for the MBA guy (in 2003) is not a valid legal argument.

Remember, one does not need to be employed to file for GC and GC is for the future job.


It is not what you or I think is fair. From legal point of view, both had equal opportunity to file for GC in 2003 for eb3 job. Just because, the MBA person didn't go for it is not a valid argument. Don't you agree?

NKR
08-07-2008, 02:15 PM
What stopped (from legal stand point) MBA guy to file for eb3 based GC in 2003? Remember both have BS in Engineering at that time. No employer was ready to file GC for the MBA guy (in 2003) is not a valid legal argument.


Exactly :).

If the MBA guy had told the employer that he is willing to take up an EB3 job, he would have gladly filed a GC.

I am expecting another red now

NKR
08-07-2008, 02:18 PM
Yes, I agree that not filing GC earlier is not an excuse for MBA. The point is he still would have been in the same situation (EB3, 2003 is not too different from EB2, 2005) in terms of how fast he will get his GC.


The law would allow him to port his EB3 PD just like how it is doing now. he will not be in the same situation, isn't this better now?

bondgoli007
08-07-2008, 02:20 PM
Hi SunnySurya an Rolling_flood,

I am EB2 and have a Masters but I don't support your case or even the basis of it. Mostly it is because I don't think MOST of the folks who use PD porting are doing it illegally or even cutting through the line undeservedly. If I am not wrong, these folks will have put in the time (work exp wise and/or added higher education) and should rightfully get the position certified as EB2.

Now granted that there are always a small minority people who genuinely are not deserving. First, can you define in your view what kind of PD porting is unethical?

Additionally, can you back up your claims by providing any kind of stats of such cases per year and how much impact it really causes to the GC wait time of those already waiting in queue for EB2? Are they that significant for you and Rolling Stone to feel so wronged?

In conclusion, unlike the unjust labor substitution process, your case is not convincing because I don't think most people availing PD porting are doing anything wrong legally and ethically. I would love to see stats and examples though.

Regards.

soni7007
08-07-2008, 02:24 PM
LOL...

This reminds me:

Car = $30,000
iPhone = $200
House = $450,000
Icecream = $2.50
TV = $500

There are some things money CAN buy, For everything else, there's GREEN CARD
(i don't know what everything else is though...LOL)


To add a few more conditions to the aforesaid situation...

This is 2008.. Both JE and MBA are thinking that they will get their GC in 2009...

Meanwhile they start arguing.. and many like them join their verbal-struggle..
Because of this, IV community is divided.. Earlier only 200 people used to respond to action items .. now because of the rift only 100 do... this weakens the momentum that the campaign had..

Meanwhile, NumbersUSA et all increased their efforts..
Anti-immigration forces are united and under their pressure all the EB relief bills fail...

Election is close USCIS shifts the focus to FB visas..
EB backlog, retrogression goes up..

JE and MBA still fighting their verbal fight... in same line.. still fighting with words... with few more years added to their wait-time.

485Mbe4001
08-07-2008, 02:25 PM
We have no idea how many are legally porting from EB3 to EB2. I am sure many are trying but the data is not available. I dont know how you will move forward without such information.

(Disclaimer: i am EB3 with US masters and no desire of porting to EB2)

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 02:26 PM
You stand is understandable, but I still will urge you to join me. It is of course not illegal but unfair towards the people already in EB2 line. If there were no limits on visas, it will not have been an issue to begin with. Think about the depth of the issue.
Hi SunnySurya an Rolling_flood,

I am EB2 and have a Masters but I don't support your case or even the basis of it. Mostly it is because I don't think MOST of the folks who use PD porting are doing it illegally or even cutting through the line undeservedly. If I am not wrong, these folks will have put in the time (work exp wise and/or added higher education) and should rightfully get the position certified as EB2.

Now granted that there are always a small minority people who genuinely are not deserving. First, can you define in your view what kind of PD porting is unethical?

Additionally, can you back up your claims by providing any kind of stats of such cases per year and how much impact it really causes to the GC wait time of those already waiting in queue for EB2? Are they that significant for you and Rolling Stone to feel so wronged?

In conclusion, unlike the unjust labor substitution process, your case is not convincing because I don't think most people availing PD porting are doing anything wrong legally and ethically. I would love to see stats and examples though.

Regards.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 02:29 PM
Thats exactly what we need to figure out... I am working on it.

We have no idea how many are legally porting from EB3 to EB2. I am sure many are trying but the data is not available. I dont know how you will move forward without such information.

(Disclaimer: i am EB3 with US masters and no desire of porting to EB2)

desi3933
08-07-2008, 02:31 PM
Yes, I agree that not filing GC earlier is not an excuse for MBA. The point is he still would have been in the same situation (EB3, 2003 is not too different from EB2, 2005) in terms of how fast he will get his GC..

It is really better. He can recapture his old eb3 PD after getting approval for eb2 based I-140 for the manager job.

Law provides equal opportunity to everyone for PD recapture. This is my point.

And, for those who are going to argue that no one is going to file GC for him in 2003, this is not a valid legal arguement. Granted, it may be a emotional one.

On a related note, how many people REALLY agree that GC is for the future job? But they never dispute that in court of law because it does not hurt their case. Anything that hurts their GC cause makes them victim and root cause for gaming the system.

Have a good day!

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 02:33 PM
Agree with you 100% on this point.
.
Anything that hurts their GC cause makes them victim and root cause for gaming the system.

desi3933
08-07-2008, 02:38 PM
What stopped (from legal stand point) MBA guy to file for eb3 based GC in 2003? Remember both have BS in Engineering at that time. No employer was ready to file GC for the MBA guy (in 2003) is not a valid legal argument.

Remember, one does not need to be employed to file for GC and GC is for the future job.


It is not what you or I think is fair. From legal point of view, both had equal opportunity to file for GC in 2003 for eb3 job. Just because, the MBA person didn't go for it is not a valid argument. Don't you agree?


Someone gave me a red dot with this comment
no jumping the line

Sorry to disappoint you, but this does not apply to me. I am already green card holder since 2002 and here in IV forum to help others. (Please refer to my old posts).

Please allow me to share a good news with you. I just got letter for my citizenship oath on Aug 19th. And yes, probably you have guessed it, I work from home. Just 2 days a week.

gccovet
08-07-2008, 02:41 PM
Sunny ,
What is your PD???

Sunny_surya,
What is you PD?

I asked this earlier, may be you missed it, so, let me ask you again...
What is your PD.

Regards,
GCCovet

gcgreen
08-07-2008, 02:42 PM
Actually, many of the ROW folks here do want this. They are being selfless, because it is the RIGHT thing to do.

Read your post again, we are already divided. Why would ROW candidate want to eleminate country quota and let you be in front of him...

bondgoli007
08-07-2008, 02:45 PM
You stand is understandable, but I still will urge you to join me. It is of course not illegal but unfair towards the people already in EB2 line. If there were no limits on visas, it will not have been an issue to begin with. Think about the depth of the issue.
Sunnysurya,

I am not arguing or obstinately stating my view. I am genuinely confused.

I am not sure how it is unfair on EB2. Didn't these folks apply for GC before us legally and stand in line sincerely (no labor subs) AND gather pertinent work exp and education?

I understand you are working on getting the numbers. I would wait to hear from you with those numbers.

It is one thing to feel wronged seeing a few examples of people abusing the porting but quite another to have a lawsuit alleging that this is a widespread activity and it is causing grievous delays for the ones waiting in EB2. I really don't believe it and feel it is insulting to a large majority of highly skilled and hard working immigrants who have/will legally port their EB3 PDs to EB2.

Regards.

akela_topchi
08-07-2008, 02:47 PM
Excellent points!!

Sunnysurya,

I am not arguing or obstinately stating my view. I am genuinely confused.

I am not sure how it is unfair on EB2. Didn't these folks apply for GC before us legally and stand in line sincerely (no labor subs) AND gather pertinent work exp and education?

I understand you are working on getting the numbers. I would wait to hear from you with those numbers.

It is one thing to feel wronged seeing a few examples of people abusing the porting but quite another to have a lawsuit alleging that this is a widespread activity and it is causing grievous delays for the ones waiting in EB2. I really don't believe it and feel it is insulting to a large majority of highly skilled and hard working immigrants who have/will legally port their EB3 PDs to EB2.

Regards.

NKR
08-07-2008, 02:48 PM
Someone gave me a red dot with this comment
no jumping the line

Sorry to disappoint you, but this does not apply to me. I am already green card holder since 2002 and here in IV forum to help others. (Please refer to my old posts).

Please allow me to share a good news with you. I just got letter for my citizenship oath on Aug 19th. And yes, probably you have guessed it, I work from home. Just 2 days a week.

I thought I will give you a green but this handful of people couldn’t stomach what I said and spoilt my reputation so much that I cannot give you a green until my reputation goes up…

bondgoli007
08-07-2008, 02:52 PM
I thought I will give you a green but this handful of people couldn’t stomach what I said and spoilt my reputation so much that I cannot give you a green until my reputation goes up…
NKR,

I will be glad to give u a gree to up your reputation :-)

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 02:53 PM
First let me state that I need people like you to proceed and hence I will be happy to answer the points you rasied to the best of my ability:

We all agree that there is severe backlog. Only way the backlog will alleviate is by increasing visa numbers, which not going to happen any time sooner.
So some people (and I know around 10 of them) what they are doing is the following:
They got the chance to file their 485 last July , which is pending. They are now contacting several small desi consulting firms to file for their fresh labor in EB2 category. Once their labor is filled and new I-140 is approved, they plan to attach new I-140 to the original 485 and hence effectively convering to Eb2 category but with priority dates in 2002 and 2003 (because original I-140 had that priority). Worst, they would never join that desi consulting firm...

This how the system is being gamed. If I know 10 such cases, I am sure there must be thousand like that.Now you tell me , isn't that unfair to the people already in Eb2 line as well as the ones who do not know how to game the system

By the way: If any one is interested, I know of three such consulting firms that can do for you for a fee.
Sunnysurya,

I am not arguing or obstinately stating my view. I am genuinely confused.

I am not sure how it is unfair on EB2. Didn't these folks apply for GC before us legally and stand in line sincerely (no labor subs) AND gather pertinent work exp and education?

I understand you are working on getting the numbers. I would wait to hear from you with those numbers.

It is one thing to feel wronged seeing a few examples of people abusing the porting but quite another to have a lawsuit alleging that this is a widespread activity and it is causing grievous delays for the ones waiting in EB2. I really don't believe it and feel it is insulting to a large majority of highly skilled and hard working immigrants who have/will legally port their EB3 PDs to EB2.

Regards.

akela_topchi
08-07-2008, 02:55 PM
All this verbal fight from SunnySurya and Rolling_Flood reminded me of a similar situation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSzQv59vPZQ&NR=1


All talking .. no action...

gcgreen
08-07-2008, 02:55 PM
I think this red dot green dot thing is the silliest thing to be carping about. It appears that a SIGNIFICANT number of posts in all threads are about this red dot green dot stuff.

Why do we care about this red/green dot nonsense? Does it really affect anything in the real world?

NKR,

I will be glad to give u a gree to up your reputation :-)

desi3933
08-07-2008, 02:57 PM
I thought I will give you a green but this handful of people couldn’t stomach what I said and spoilt my reputation so much that I cannot give you a green until my reputation goes up…

Check your PM.

Thanks for your support.

NKR
08-07-2008, 02:59 PM
NKR,

I will be glad to give u a gree to up your reputation :-)


Thanks Guys, I am from India and I applied in EB2, I do not have to port since my dates are current but I still do not support this idea because I know how difficult it is for one to better his situation just because he is not having a GC. My LC was stuck in backlog centers when perm labor applications was being approved left, right and centre…

gcgreen
08-07-2008, 03:01 PM
but why do you think this is an example of the system being gamed?

The IT consulting firm or whatever is willing to hire an experienced employee with more than X years experience for a job requiring more than 5 years experience. As long as this employer does everything by the book, and the prospective employee does everything by the book, what is wrong with this? Note that the prospective employee has still waited for about 5-6 years to get his GC, its not as if they are getting it within a year of applying.

[Note that if the IT firm is taking any money from the prospective employee whatsoever for the labor application, then that is against the labor regulations (at least I think this was part of the new regulations that got rid of labor sub)]

So where is the gaming? Also, assuming that you are saying the employer is taking money and creating artificial jobs then is this thing not a DoL and labor app problem as opposed to a lawsuit problem? I am confused. Please explain.

First let me state that I need people like you to proceed and hence I will be happy to answer the points you rasied to the best of my ability:

We all agree that there is severe backlog. Only way the backlog will alleviate is by increasing visa numbers, which not going to happen any time sooner.
So some people (and I know around 10 of them) what they are doing is the following:
They got the chance to file their 485 last July , which is pending. They are contacting several small desi consulting firms to file for their fresh labor in EB2 category. Once their labor is filled and new I-140 is approved, they plan to attach new I-140 to the original 485 and hence effectively convering to Eb2 category but with priority dates in 2002 and 2003 (because original I-140 had that priority). Worst, they would never join that desi consulting firm...

This how the system is being gamed. If I know 10 such cases, I am sure there must be thousand like that.Now you tell me , isn't that unfair

slowwin
08-07-2008, 03:01 PM
Let us assume that EB2 is going to be current in a year or even sooner than that. Given that situation, and arguing that about 500 people jumped ahead into line over you in to EB2 from EB3, still I do not foresee that their GC's will be approved before the people who are already in line, because

1) as FIFO is not being followed by USCIS, probably they are processing cases based on RD,
2) PD porting is effectively done at the time the second I-140 IS APPROVED. At I-485 stage you can only hope to PD recapture and cross your fingers after sending a no fee letter. This will surely would need additional scrutiny, hence is not a so called 'Low hanging fruit'. Even if an EB3 person wants to start his process right now, it will not be probably before a year and half to two years before he/she is ready to port, and by that time you are past the gate or significantly nearer.

so my point of view is if you look at this thing negatively, you would have a Heartburn and related health issues, but if you are positive and an optimist you would deserve what you get.

stay healthy! that is more important than stressing yourself on issues which in the long term do not matter really. (You will get GC on or two rears later in the worst case scenario). cheer up folks:D:D:D


The law would allow him to port his EB3 PD just like how it is doing now. he will not be in the same situation, isn't this better now?

soni7007
08-07-2008, 03:03 PM
Let's file a lawsuit against whoever started this system..LOL

On a more serious note, Can I port my red dots to green ones after i have been in reds for like a month? I won't be surprised if someone actually starts a thread with this kinda issue here.

I think this red dot green dot thing is the silliest thing to be carping about. It appears that a SIGNIFICANT number of posts in all threads are about this red dot green dot stuff.

Why do we care about this red/green dot nonsense? Does it really affect anything in the real world?

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 03:05 PM
Yes, it matters, all those guys whom I speak about has RD of July 2nd 07
Let us assume that EB2 is going to be current in a year or even sooner than that. Given that situation, and arguing that about 500 people jumped ahead into line over you in to EB2 from EB3, still I do not foresee that their GC's will be approved before the people who are already in line, because

1) as FIFO is not being followed by USCIS, probably they are processing cases based on RD,
2) PD porting is effectively done at the time the second I-140 IS APPROVED. At I-485 stage you can only hope to PD recapture and cross your fingers after sending a no fee letter. This will surely would need additional scrutiny, hence is not a so called 'Low hanging fruit'. Even if an EB3 person wants to start his process right now, it will not be probably before a year and half to two years before he/she is ready to port, and by that time you are past the gate or significantly nearer.

so my point of view is if you look at this thing negatively, you would have a Heartburn and related health issues, but if you are positive and an optimist you would deserve what you get.

stay healthy! that is more important than stressing yourself on issues which in the long term do not matter really. (You will get GC on or two rears later in the worst case scenario). cheer up folks:D:D:D

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 03:07 PM
The argument is same for why labor substitution was done away with. The bottom line is it was abused.
but why do you think this is an example of the system being gamed?

The IT consulting firm or whatever is willing to hire an experienced employee with more than X years experience for a job requiring more than 5 years experience. As long as this employer does everything by the book, and the prospective employee does everything by the book, what is wrong with this? Note that the prospective employee has still waited for about 5-6 years to get his GC, its not as if they are getting it within a year of applying.

[Note that if the IT firm is taking any money from the prospective employee whatsoever for the labor application, then that is against the labor regulations (at least I think this was part of the new regulations that got rid of labor sub)]

So where is the gaming? Also, assuming that you are saying the employer is taking money and creating artificial jobs then is this thing not a DoL and labor app problem as opposed to a lawsuit problem? I am confused. Please explain.

malaGCPahije
08-07-2008, 03:07 PM
Check your PM.

Thanks for your support.

desi3933 and NKR... , Enjoy.

gcgreen
08-07-2008, 03:09 PM
actually it does matter, right. what happens if the dates retrogress significantly for EB2 again, because of the influx of EB3 to EB2 ports? Then EB2 folks with later priority dates will miss the boat.

But the question is whether the EB2 folks who are missing out are getting an "unfair" deal. That is debatable.

Let us assume that EB2 is going to be current in a year or even sooner than that. Given that situation, and arguing that about 500 people jumped ahead into line over you in to EB2 from EB3, still I do not foresee that their GC's will be approved before the people who are already in line, because

1) as FIFO is not being followed by USCIS, probably they are processing cases based on RD,
2) PD porting is effectively done at the time the second I-140 IS APPROVED. At I-485 stage you can only hope to PD recapture and cross your fingers after sending a no fee letter. This will surely would need additional scrutiny, hence is not a so called 'Low hanging fruit'. Even if an EB3 person wants to start his process right now, it will not be probably before a year and half to two years before he/she is ready to port, and by that time you are past the gate or significantly nearer.

so my point of view is if you look at this thing negatively, you would have a Heartburn and related health issues, but if you are positive and an optimist you would deserve what you get.

stay healthy! that is more important than stressing yourself on issues which in the long term do not matter really. (You will get GC on or two rears later in the worst case scenario). cheer up folks:D:D:D

Ramba
08-07-2008, 03:09 PM
First let me state that I need people like you to proceed and hence I will be happy to answer the points you rasied to the best of my ability:

We all agree that there is severe backlog. Only way the backlog will alleviate is by increasing visa numbers, which not going to happen any time sooner.
So some people (and I know around 10 of them) what they are doing is the following:
They got the chance to file their 485 last July , which is pending. They are now contacting several small desi consulting firms to file for their fresh labor in EB2 category. Once their labor is filled and new I-140 is approved, they plan to attach new I-140 to the original 485 and hence effectively convering to Eb2 category but with priority dates in 2002 and 2003 (because original I-140 had that priority). Worst, they would never join that desi consulting firm...



This how the system is being gamed. If I know 10 such cases, I am sure there must be thousand like that.Now you tell me , isn't that unfair to the people already in Eb2 line as well as the ones who do not know how to game the system

By the way: If any one is interested, I know of three such consulting firm that can do for you for a fee.

Though, it is unfair one can not do legally, as long as USCIS recoconoze the the job offered at desi consulting companies are genuine and real "fulltime permanant job". They may be gaming the system..it is their model of bussiness to make money..and it is well supported by lawyers, lobbyists and ofcourse benefit seeking employees. You cant break this strong wall before the uscis. You should have witnessed how much resistance they created when DOL/USCIS abolished labor subsitution. In nut shell, if you close one loophole, they will find another. You are in wrong forum..

brshankar
08-07-2008, 03:11 PM
Sunny_surya,
What is you PD?

I asked this earlier, may be you missed it, so, let me ask you again...
What is your PD.

Regards,
GCCovet

Dude,

Sunnysurya is busy trying to get people for the lawsuit. He will not reply to you.

According to IV Tracker, his EB2 PD is Nov 2005. He has filed in Nebraska.

Thanks

malaGCPahije
08-07-2008, 03:16 PM
First let me state that I need people like you to proceed and hence I will be happy to answer the points you rasied to the best of my ability:

We all agree that there is severe backlog. Only way the backlog will alleviate is by increasing visa numbers, which not going to happen any time sooner.
So some people (and I know around 10 of them) what they are doing is the following:
They got the chance to file their 485 last July , which is pending. They are now contacting several small desi consulting firms to file for their fresh labor in EB2 category. Once their labor is filled and new I-140 is approved, they plan to attach new I-140 to the original 485 and hence effectively convering to Eb2 category but with priority dates in 2002 and 2003 (because original I-140 had that priority). Worst, they would never join that desi consulting firm...

This how the system is being gamed. If I know 10 such cases, I am sure there must be thousand like that.Now you tell me , isn't that unfair to the people already in Eb2 line as well as the ones who do not know how to game the system

By the way: If any one is interested, I know of three such consulting firms that can do for you for a fee.

you want to file a lawsuit because of 10 people you know game the system, thereby negatively impacting many more people who are moving to new jobs to climb the ladder and may benefit by the rule as a side-effect. Should you then not file a lawsuit against the people who play the game indicating that they are not even joining the company that sponsored their GC? I am now really confused whom you are against.

Either way, I would not support any lawsuit. If someone is smarter to get his way ahead of me, it is good for him/her. I cannot blame my status on someone else's intelligence/ smartness. If I do not know how to play the game, it is my problem (it actually is, hence I am stuck). But that is OK. I am happy the way I am.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 03:17 PM
Of course you can do leagally, the GC is for the fututre job. We were able to do away with labor sub and we can do the same here.
Though, it is unfair one can not do legally, as long as USCIS recoconoze the the job offered at desi consulting companies are genuine and real "fulltime permanant job". They may be gaming the system..it is their model of bussiness to make money..and it is well supported by lawyers, lobbyists and ofcourse benefit seeking employees. You cant break this strong wall before the uscis. You should have witnessed how much resistance they created when DOL/USCIS abolished labor subsitution. In nut shell, if you close one loophole, they will find another. You are in wrong forum..

slowwin
08-07-2008, 03:20 PM
I think IF we stress for FIFO principle then jumping lines , ships will be taken care of by themselves. let RD be used and PD recaPture request date on the letter be RD.

ebizash
08-07-2008, 03:24 PM
DISCLAIMER - I am EB3-I with PD of 01/2007 AND I am not porting to EB2....

I DO NOT support this law suit idea but I really admire SunnySurya... not because he/she is planning to file lawsuit but because he/she has been really polite and patient to so many insulting, taunting and name-calling posts "personally" against him/her.

Again, I am NOT supporting actions of SunnySurya..... but admiring the patience and politeness....

My first and last post on this thread... hopefully... :)

gcgreen
08-07-2008, 03:25 PM
Ok. I am finally beginning to see your point. If the objective of your exercise is to eliminate alleged non-genuine EB2 jobs, that really don't exist, but are simply advertised just for the sake of porting by unscrupulous companies who stand to gain money by this, then you certainly are making a valid point.

But I still do not understand how a lawsuit will help? Was the labor-sub elimination the result of a lawsuit? Also, I would be concerned about lots of other valid/genuine companies who really have jobs for BS + 5 years experience ...?

The argument is same for why labor substitution was done away with. The bottom line is it was abused.

willwin
08-07-2008, 03:28 PM
Dude,

Sunnysurya is busy trying to get people for the lawsuit. He will not reply to you.

According to IV Tracker, his EB2 PD is Nov 2005. He has filed in Nebraska.

Thanks

EB2 folks with PD 2006 and later and also those in TX center, beware!

He might file a lawsuit against you guys as well for 'skipping' the line.

LOL.

alias
08-07-2008, 03:29 PM
If someone is smarter to get his way ahead of me, it is good for him/her. I cannot blame my status on someone else's intelligence/ smartness. If I do not know how to play the game, it is my problem (it actually is, hence I am stuck). But that is OK. I am happy the way I am.

I like what you say. That attitude helps long-term for leadership! Selfishness and mean attitude is only shortsightedness.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 03:35 PM
The question is how would you identify which jobs are genuine and which are not. In addition, the question the porting comes at I-485 stage.
So in other words there could very well be job out there and you won't know till its I-140 is approved if it is for porting reasons.
Also, a good/established company may most likely will not file a new labor and I-140 for a person because it an unncessary expenditure for them.
So guess who are the people who are most benefitted by this...

Ok. I am finally beginning to see your point. If the objective of your exercise is to eliminate alleged non-genuine EB2 jobs, that really don't exist, but are simply advertised just for the sake of porting by unscrupulous companies who stand to gain money by this, then you certainly are making a valid point.

But I still do not understand how a lawsuit will help? Was the labor-sub elimination the result of a lawsuit? Also, I would be concerned about lots of other valid/genuine companies who really have jobs for BS + 5 years experience ...?

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 03:38 PM
I think, you meant earlier. No I won't because it won't yield anything. Its water under the bridge.
EB2 folks with PD 2006 and later and also those in TX center, beware!

He might file a lawsuit against you guys as well for 'skipping' the line.

LOL.

hpandey
08-07-2008, 03:39 PM
I think we should concentrate on things which are beneficial for everyone - not only EB1-2 or 3 . We should get USCIS to improve efficiency, use all visas, get applications processed according to their PD and not randomly and above all do away with the country limits which is the biggest cause of this retrogression.

When there are so many big issues pending I wonder why not concentrate on them instead.

There are so many people from all EB categories whose I-140 has been pending for more than a year. Shouldn't that be a priority also because without an approved I-140 their GC will also not be approved even if they have a PD from 2001-2002.

There are more important issues at hand here as I see it.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 03:41 PM
Yes the people who were able to get their companies open offices in the states where the approval times were faster were smarter than me! Because I believed in the system and they did not.
Originally Posted by malaGCPahije
If someone is smarter to get his way ahead of me, it is good for him/her. I cannot blame my status on someone else's intelligence/ smartness. If I do not know how to play the game, it is my problem (it actually is, hence I am stuck). But that is OK. I am happy the way I am..

gccovet
08-07-2008, 03:43 PM
Dude,

Sunnysurya is busy trying to get people for the lawsuit. He will not reply to you.

According to IV Tracker, his EB2 PD is Nov 2005. He has filed in Nebraska.

Thanks

Calling all EB3-I with PD before Nov 2005. Please get 3 desi firm names from Sunny_Surya and start EB2 filing. Then port your PD's.
GCCovet

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 03:46 PM
What is being done is simply replacing (or attaching) new I-140 to the exisitng 485. Thus RD of 485 remains intact.
I think IF we stress for FIFO principle then jumping lines , ships will be taken care of by themselves. let RD be used and PD recaPture request date on the letter be RD.

willwin
08-07-2008, 03:46 PM
I think, you meant earlier. No I won't because it won't yield anything. Its water under the bridge.

I did mean later not earlier! It would yield you your GC! Most GC approved this month so far has gone to people with PD 2006. One of those is possibly yours!

So go ahead and file a lawsuit.

willwin
08-07-2008, 03:48 PM
Calling all EB3-I with PD before Nov 2005. Please get 3 desi firm names from Sunny_Surya and start EB2 filing. Then port your PD's.
GCCovet

I am 03/2005. I am game for this. LOL.

dontcareanymore
08-07-2008, 03:48 PM
I could not resist from writing this post-

A fisherman is selling two baskets full of crabs. One basket has a lid on it, the other doesn’t. An inquisitive buyer asks him why this is so. He smiles, pointing to the covered basket and says, “Well I have to cover this one because if I don’t, the crabs will all climb out”. “Why not the other basket then?” persists the buyer.

“You, see, they’re Indian Crabs - if one tries to climb out, the others will pull it back in, hence there’s no need for a lid”

Concentrate on action items and work harder than ever, which can bring a great relief to entire EB community. It does not matter how many times we failed or succeeded, every attempt we are an inch closer to our ultimate (IV) goal.

I completely agree. If this goes through , the next step is to fight for review of all EB1 and EB2 applications thoroughly for misrepresentations in the job descriptions to make sure the job they do indeed requires masters degree and to make sure same job is not being done by a person with bachelor degree in the industry (Not just same company).



To make sure when they file for the GC they have the real INTENT to work for the company. working for SIX months is not intent. If all the issued green cards are canceled if they don't work for the company, we will have enough numbers for genuine candidates in all groups.

How about even extend this to citizenship ? I have some ideas in that area as well !!

I know a person (used to live in same street) who could not get in to med or engg college. Finishes BSc in life sciences.Stays in university hostel for 7-8 years preparing for job and finishes PHD in life sciences in the process(You know how they go ). Now filed for EB1 and worked for just six months in a university. Now runs an Indian Grocery. How a person running an Indian Grocery is more useful to this country to qualify for EB1 ? He does qualify , if he continues his research, as intended.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 03:49 PM
Thanks for the suggestion, I will keep your advise in mind.
I did mean later not earlier! It would yield you your GC! Most GC approved this month so far has gone to people with PD 2006. One of those is possibly yours!

So go ahead and file a lawsuit.

sam_hoosier
08-07-2008, 03:49 PM
Most GC approved this month so far has gone to people with PD 2006.

Where did you get that from ? :confused:

gcgreen
08-07-2008, 03:50 PM
See, that's the reason I think the lawsuit idea has issues. I suspect the lawsuit may end up making life difficult for a lot of genuine cases without actually achieving what you set out to achieve.

But I have no data one way or the other.

The question is how would you identify which jobs are genuine and which are not. In addition, the question the porting comes at I-485 stage.
So in other words there could very well be job out there and you won't know till its I-140 is approved if it is for porting reasons.
Also, a good/established company may most likely will not file a new labor and I-140 for a person because it an unncessary expenditure for them.
So guess who are the people who are most benefitted by this...

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 03:56 PM
PD porting is another labor sub in making. I hope I have presented my case logically to show who all are the people who are in position to be benefitted by this rule. Of course there will be some genuine cases too but on other hand think about the people in Eb2 line that will be severely affected.




See, that's the reason I think the lawsuit idea has issues. I suspect the lawsuit may end up making life difficult for a lot of genuine cases without actually achieving what you set out to achieve.

But I have no data one way or the other.

reddymjm
08-07-2008, 04:35 PM
Calling all EB3-I with PD before Nov 2005. Please get 3 desi firm names from Sunny_Surya and start EB2 filing. Then port your PD's.
GCCovet

May be Sunny Surya has his own company. He is looking for people who want to port and this is negative advertizment....

reddymjm
08-07-2008, 04:42 PM
I was double minded to do porting or not. Now I am considering it very seriously. Got a green signal from my current EMPLOYER to go ahead for EB2.

reddymjm
08-07-2008, 04:51 PM
Lets say some miracle happens and EB3 becomes current and EB2 backlogged,
all these calling Us and Lawsuit guys will be the first one to port their PD.

pappu
08-07-2008, 04:52 PM
First let me state that I need people like you to proceed and hence I will be happy to answer the points you rasied to the best of my ability:

We all agree that there is severe backlog. Only way the backlog will alleviate is by increasing visa numbers, which not going to happen any time sooner.
So some people (and I know around 10 of them) what they are doing is the following:
They got the chance to file their 485 last July , which is pending. They are now contacting several small desi consulting firms to file for their fresh labor in EB2 category. Once their labor is filled and new I-140 is approved, they plan to attach new I-140 to the original 485 and hence effectively convering to Eb2 category but with priority dates in 2002 and 2003 (because original I-140 had that priority). Worst, they would never join that desi consulting firm...

This how the system is being gamed. If I know 10 such cases, I am sure there must be thousand like that.Now you tell me , isn't that unfair to the people already in Eb2 line as well as the ones who do not know how to game the system

By the way: If any one is interested, I know of three such consulting firms that can do for you for a fee.

First: I appreciate that you have not lost your cool yet despite all the opposition and rude posts against you. Rollingflood on the other hand does not share those qualities with you well. We will not close the thread as long as the discussion remains civil.

While I personally do not support the lawsuit idea because it divides the community in two parts and there are better ways to help the community. You can try to help positively for the greater good for everyone or run a negative campaign that will help some but hurt others who are also like you and are genuinely following the law. I also think it will be expensive and may not have a lifeline. As IV members we need to all work together to fix the system. This was the basis of founding IV. The aim was never to look after our own selfish interests and hurt others who are like us. We never discriminated between different EB categories or country of chargeability. The intent of our fight is not to deny others their greencards and get ours first, but to allow everyone get their greencards. The intent is to have the system be efficient and work the way it was intended. IV core team has never made action items or ask lists in campaigns to suit their own selfish needs.

Now in this post you have raised a serious issue. If a fraud is going on, do collect evidence and file a complaint against it. If consulting companies are making money by gaming the system, drag those companies in your complaint. Help punish such people who are gaming the system. IV community will appreciate that.

There is some wisdom needed here to draw a line between selfishness and working with honest intentions to clean up the system.

brshankar
08-07-2008, 04:54 PM
I was double minded to do porting or not. Now I am considering it very seriously. Got a green signal from my current EMPLOYER to go ahead for EB2.

Good Luck dude. You should definitely go for it.

willwin
08-07-2008, 04:58 PM
I was double minded to do porting or not. Now I am considering it very seriously. Got a green signal from my current EMPLOYER to go ahead for EB2.

Is it possible to change category to EB2 with same employer/same job?

mirage
08-07-2008, 05:00 PM
Your Logic is Illogical in the first place...
In Labor substitution, a person who lands in US last friday, could substitute a labor and get ahead in line of a 2002 guy.
In Porting case he/she is the original beneficiary. So you comparing Porting to Labor Substitution is totally illogical...

PD porting is another labor sub in making. I hope I have presented my case logically to show who all are the people who are in position to be benefitted by this rule. Of course there will be some genuine cases too but on other hand think about the people in Eb2 line that will be severely affected.

malaGCPahije
08-07-2008, 05:01 PM
Is it possible to change category to EB2 with same employer/same job?

I have the same question as I think, it is not possible. How can you re-apply for the same job you are in currently, in EB2?

pappu
08-07-2008, 05:02 PM
Let's file a lawsuit against whoever started this system..LOL

On a more serious note, Can I port my red dots to green ones after i have been in reds for like a month? I won't be surprised if someone actually starts a thread with this kinda issue here.

:D:D:D

Yes you can port it using AC21. IV will need to issue a new memo for it though. But your designation should be same. If you are a junior member, you need to post only as a junior member on IV forums.

Its your choice.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 05:05 PM
The point was about abusing the system to get ahead in the line. In that way labor sub shares similarity with PD porting. If a person who landed yesterday fits the job profile and the law allowed it , then what's wrong.

On the other hand if those labor are sold for a price then it is serious problem. And thats why Lab Sub was eleminated. Now thats what is going to happen (and happening) in PD porting case.
Your Logic is Illogical in the first place...
In Labor substitution, a person who lands in US last friday, could substitute a labor and get ahead in line of a 2002 guy.
In Porting case he/she is the original beneficiary. So you comparing Porting to Labor Substitution is totally illogical...

hpandey
08-07-2008, 05:09 PM
Why don't you just ask those 10 guys you know are comitting fraud ( by not joining the desi consulting companies and trying to workaround etc ) which company\companies they are working with and then file a complaint with DOL about them. I am sure DOL would surely look into their workings and will very very surely find out that they are doing something illegal in other things ( even if this is not one of them ). Those companies will get blacklisted and will set an example for other companies.

But I don't think you should stop anyone who is doing it legitimately. If one qualifies for EB2 and has been in the queue for a long time he has the right to do it.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 05:09 PM
Thank you. I am not worried about the three companies I know of , I am worried about other 3000 companies that I don't know of.
I also beleive, it is not the companies that are evil. It is the system that provides the incentive. And I am trying to take away that incentive.

First: I appreciate that you have not lost your cool yet despite all the opposition and rude posts against you. We will not close the thread as long as the discussion remains civil.

While I personally do not support the lawsuit idea because it divides the community in two parts and there are better ways to help the community. You can try to help positively for the greater good for everyone or run a negative campaign that will help some but hurt others who are also like you and are genuinely following the law. I also think it will be expensive and may not have a lifeline. As IV members we need to all work together to fix the system. This was the basis of founding IV. The aim was never to look after our own selfish interests and hurt others who are like us. We never discriminated between different EB categories or country of changeability. The intent of our fight is not to deny others their greencards and get ours first, but to allow everyone get their greencards. The intent is to have the system be efficient and work the way it was intended. IV core team has never made action items or ask lists in campaigns to suit their own selfish needs.

Now in this post you have raised a serious issue. If a fraud is going on, do collect evidence and file a complaint against it. If consulting companies are making money by gaming the system, drag those companies in your complaint. Help punish such people who are gaming the system. IV community will appreciate that.

There is some wisdom needed here to draw a line between selfishness and working with honest intentions to clean up the system.

aau
08-07-2008, 05:11 PM
I have the same question as I think, it is not possible. How can you re-apply for the same job you are in currently, in EB2?

Yes you can -when you were eligible for the EB2 filing at the time of filing for EB3!

Why would someone do that u ask? Please call my employer and ask him this question. The answer is - so that you are stuck with him for few more years.

malaGCPahije
08-07-2008, 05:12 PM
The point was about abusing the system to get ahead in the line. In that way labor sub shares similarity with PD porting. If a person who landed yesterday fits the job profile and the law allowed it , then what's wrong.

On the other hand if those labor are sold for a price then it is serious problem. And thats why Lab Sub was eleminated. Now thats what is going to happen (and happening) in PD porting case.

any action should be against the so called "paid PD porting" cases. But why harm a honest EB3 person switching companies to go up the ladder? If he is getting the benefit of the rule, what is wrong? As long he it is done by the law, I do not see any problem.

Tomorrow, if you get a position that justifies EB1 category for you, would you not move to that category? Nothing wrong in that either.

I endorse Pappu's comments. Wrong doers can be punished. But people benefiting by a certain rule should not be.

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 05:12 PM
Who said that those 10 guys are committing fraud. They are going by the books, which allow them to file GC for future employment. Even from the employer standpoint, you cannot prove that any fraud has been committed.


Why don't you just ask those 10 guys you know are comitting fraud ( by not joining the desi consulting companies and trying to workaround etc ) which company\companies they are working with and then file a complaint with DOL about them. I am sure DOL would surely look into their workings and will very very surely find out that they are doing something illegal in other things ( even if this is not one of them ). Those companies will get blacklisted and will set an example for other companies.

But I don't think you should stop anyone who is doing it legitimately. If one qualifies for EB2 and has been in the queue for a long time he has the right to do it.

mirage
08-07-2008, 05:13 PM
What's wrong happening in PD porting case ?? Original beneficiary is able to get a visa allocated to him by claiming he was or is eligible for EB-2 ? Where is fraud in this and as you said if law allows it and what's wrong... The point was about abusing the system to get ahead in the line. In that way labor sub shares similarity with PD porting. If a person who landed yesterday fits the job profile and the law allowed it , then what's wrong.

On the other hand if those labor are sold for a price then it is serious problem. And thats why Lab Sub was eleminated. Now thats what is going to happen (and happening) in PD porting case.

malaGCPahije
08-07-2008, 05:14 PM
Yes you can -when you were eligible for the EB2 filing at the time of filing for EB3!

Why would someone do that u ask? Please call my employer and ask him this question. The answer is - so that you are stuck with him for few more years.

I am in the same boat. My employer decided to file my case under EB3. For that, even the job position was in such a way that required only EB3. I had 7 years experience at that time. So it could have been EB2. That is fine, I am not sad about it.

My question is, since the original position had requirements that met EB3 and not EB2, how can you now justify moving to EB2 within the same company and for the same position?

dontcareanymore
08-07-2008, 05:17 PM
Let's file a lawsuit against whoever started this system..LOL

On a more serious note, Can I port my red dots to green ones after i have been in reds for like a month? I won't be surprised if someone actually starts a thread with this kinda issue here.


:D:D:D

Yes you can port it using AC21. IV will need to issue a new memo for it though. But your designation should be same. If you are a junior member, you need to post only as a junior member on IV forums.

Its your choice.

No, no ... Not a chance. We don't allow you you to port from red dots to green dots. If you want green dots, you can always start a new application (new Handle) with green dot (s). :) :)

SunnySurya
08-07-2008, 05:22 PM
Well said, the principle applies here too!:)
No, no ... Not a chance. We don't allow you you to port from red dots to green dots. If you want green dots, you can always start a new application (new Handle) with green dot (s). :) :)

gc_maine2
08-07-2008, 05:22 PM
LOL :D:D:D:D





[QUOTE=pappu;273861]:D:D:D

Yes you can port it using AC21. IV will need to issue a new memo for it though. But your designation should be same. If you are a junior member, you need to post only as a junior member on IV forums.

Its your choice.

aau
08-07-2008, 05:28 PM
I am in the same boat. My employer decided to file my case under EB3. For that, even the job position was in such a way that required only EB3. I had 7 years experience at that time. So it could have been EB2. That is fine, I am not sad about it.

My question is, since the original position had requirements that met EB3 and not EB2, how can you now justify moving to EB2 within the same company and for the same position?

You can't move to EB2 if both employer and position remain the same. I was promoted after working with them for 3 years!:rolleyes: Plus I have a Masters in Computer Science. My new position required more experience and a Master's Degree, hence qualified for an EB2.

Similarly, you can change employers and look for a better job. Then you can use the experience gained at the previous employer. But, ALWAYS, the job requirement has to state the need for years of experience or Advanced degree.

funny
08-07-2008, 06:11 PM
since a lot of people are debating on this issue and a lot are researching on it ( i know atleast 2 people are actively researching on this topic :D). Does any one know how can i find the status of my PD porting. My lawyer sent the request in June after 3-4 days a say LUD on my 485/140/EAD/AP. I filed my 485 on July 2nd 2007 with a ND of August 17 2007. My EB3 PD is oct 2003 and my EB2 PD is July 2006. Do you guys think the LUD was because USCIS has Ported/interfiled my PD, Is there a chance for the Green in next 2 months?

I think the people who are trying to file the Lawsuit must be the most knowledegable people about this issue, Can you guys provide some +ve response for a change.:D

sherlock01
08-07-2008, 07:39 PM
Why would you want to do that? I am EB-2, waiting for GC but don't consider myself to have some sort of monopoly over EB-2.

EB-2 or EB-3 is not our birthright. It's just a matter of circumstance that many of us found ourselves in one category or other. It does not even necessarily mean any difference in skill or experience. There are many people in EB3 with Masters degrees and many people with over 10 yrs experience.

Dude everybody wants their GC. If you want to fight injustice fight for something positive. You will only get bad Karma by undercutting other people :mad:

willwin
08-08-2008, 10:27 AM
I have the same question as I think, it is not possible. How can you re-apply for the same job you are in currently, in EB2?

If the job required a EB2 or EB3 but EB3 was filed earlier. Is that possible?

malaGCPahije
08-08-2008, 10:38 AM
You can't move to EB2 if both employer and position remain the same. I was promoted after working with them for 3 years!:rolleyes: Plus I have a Masters in Computer Science. My new position required more experience and a Master's Degree, hence qualified for an EB2.

Similarly, you can change employers and look for a better job. Then you can use the experience gained at the previous employer. But, ALWAYS, the job requirement has to state the need for years of experience or Advanced degree.

This helps answer my question. I am a little unclear about promotions and whether that will qualify one for a new labor, etc. I personally am not planning to change anything at the moment. My promotion, etc is not being stalled because of my status. So I am OK. Thanks again for your answer.

malaGCPahije
08-08-2008, 10:41 AM
If the job required a EB2 or EB3 but EB3 was filed earlier. Is that possible?

for the same job position it should not be possible. When the employer filed in EB3, the employer must have provided all documentation necessary to justify the EB3 status. If now, the employer has to go back and indicate that the job requirement matched EB2 status, then that indicates something was not done right during the earlier application. That could right away trigger a RFE.

willwin
08-08-2008, 10:55 AM
Thank you. I am not worried about the three companies I know of , I am worried about other 3000 companies that I don't know of.
I also beleive, it is not the companies that are evil. It is the system that provides the incentive. And I am trying to take away that incentive.

Please wait for few months; let me complete porting my PD to EB2. LOL ....

If you don't realize, this is what is happening in the GC queue system and I will try to explain using an analogy.

There are 3 queues to a single counter that issues work permit.


First queue, for age group 20-30 (EB3) and slowest to get a work permit
Second, age group 31-40 (EB2) faster than EB3
Third, age group 41-50 (EB1), fast lane.

Now, on Jan 1 2000, X who is 21 years old joins the EB3 queue. There are 10 people on EB2 queue on this day. EB3 queue is hardly moving and X remains in the queue for 10 solid years. He is now 31. It is 2010.

The EB2 queue now has 100 people and our 100th person in the queue is SS and 35 years old.

The system allows X to join EB2 as he has turned 31 and also allows him to join behind the 10th person who was there on the EB2 queue as on Jan 1 2000 (if he was still there or be the 1st guy in the queue if the 10th person has already left the EB2 queue) as that was how many people were in the EB2 queue when X came in to this system.

Now SS cannot tolerate this for 2 reasons. One X came from EB3 (an inferior group per him) and next, X is 4 years younger and hence cannot get work permit ahead of him. He does not realize that he did not come in to the system when X came though he was senior and superior.

The system does not see that way. X was in the system for 10 years and he should be given priority in the system valuing the 10 years wait - irrespective of the queue he is in.

In other words, his queue might change but not his association with the system which is 10 years.

Now there could be people who show bogus age certificate and change queues. They have to be punished but not the system.

You don't set your house on fire just to kill few mosquitoes in there.

If you still don't agree, SunnySurya, good luck with your law suit! After all every human being commit mistakes in their life and is your turn now.

walking_dude
08-08-2008, 11:12 AM
Here's a very good recent example

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyId=13&articleId=9111963&intsrc=hm_topic

Point to be noted is that this case was not dismissed on merit, but that plaintiff's have not been able to prove significant damages resulting from the rule. A general 'dissatisfaction' with the rule ( for e.g. my wait times will increase if porting continues) doesnot translate into significant damages ( such as I'm losing the job). The merit of the case was never discussed!.

It would be interesting to see how many of the 'Yes' are going to remain 'Yes' when it comes to having their names on a lawsuit filed against USCIS (the whole list will be going to USCIS). It will be interesting to see how many of you stridently remaining anonymous on a (relatively) harmless public forum such as IV are going to come out in public to fight the USCIS. Good luck guys.

And happy nightmares whenver your cases get (not so) Soft LUDs. Is it because you joined the case? you never know.

Good luck once more

willwin
08-08-2008, 11:20 AM
Here's a very good recent example

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyId=13&articleId=9111963&intsrc=hm_topic

It would be interesting to see how many of the 'Yes' are going to remain 'Yes' when it comes to having their names on a lawsuit filed against USCIS (the whole list will be going to USCIS). Good luck guys.

And happy nightmares whenver your cases get (not so) Soft LUDs. Is it because you joined the case? you never know.

Good luck once more


Any way they don't really care about their own GC. All that they want is stop EB3 from moving over to EB2. Well, what's that, justice!

Probably, once you let them go, they won't go. lol.

aau
08-08-2008, 11:26 AM
This helps answer my question. I am a little unclear about promotions and whether that will qualify one for a new labor, etc. I personally am not planning to change anything at the moment. My promotion, etc is not being stalled because of my status. So I am OK. Thanks again for your answer.


Yes, promotions will qualify you and by promotion I mean a more Senior position, that needs more experience or an Advanced degree. Basically its just like you are applying for a NEW job altogether. You will need to file a new Labor and then I-140, but this time in EB2.

desi3933
08-08-2008, 11:36 AM
Here's a very good recent example

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyId=13&articleId=9111963&intsrc=hm_topic

Point to be noted is that this case was not dismissed on merit, but that plaintiff's have not been able to prove significant damages resulting from the rule. A general 'dissatisfaction' with the rule ( for e.g. my wait times will increase if porting continues) doesnot translate into significant damages ( such as I'm losing the job). The merit of the case was never discussed!.

It would be interesting to see how many of the 'Yes' are going to remain 'Yes' when it comes to having their names on a lawsuit filed against USCIS (the whole list will be going to USCIS). It will be interesting to see how many of you stridently remaining anonymous on a (relatively) harmless public forum such as IV are going to come out in public to fight the USCIS. Good luck guys.

And happy nightmares whenver your cases get (not so) Soft LUDs. Is it because you joined the case? you never know.

Good luck once more

Good post!

Since GC is for the future job, any damage such as "I am losing current job" is legally immaterial and irrelevant.


____________________________
N-400 Oath Date on Aug 19th

desi3933
08-08-2008, 11:42 AM
Check your PM.

Thanks for your support.


I can't believe this! Some people have give me red dots for this post.

Great going! Another example of your "high thinking". :D Such people are cowards. They can't put anything in post reply and they put "brave comments" along with red dots.


____________________________
N-400 Oath Date on Aug 19th

desi3933
08-11-2008, 10:57 AM
....
I am not worried about the three companies I know of , I am worried about other 3000 companies that I don't know of.
I also believe, it is not the companies that are evil. It is the system that provides the incentive. And I am trying to take away that incentive.


Any update on lawsuit, SunnySurya?

Also, would you mind sharing your PD with us? This has been asked by couple other folks as well.

Thanks and Good Luck.

acecupid
08-11-2008, 07:31 PM
Great analogy willwin, I agree with you completely! I hope people start being mature and quit their selfish motives.

Please wait for few months; let me complete porting my PD to EB2. LOL ....

If you don't realize, this is what is happening in the GC queue system and I will try to explain using an analogy.

There are 3 queues to a single counter that issues work permit.


First queue, for age group 20-30 (EB3) and slowest to get a work permit
Second, age group 31-40 (EB2) faster than EB3
Third, age group 41-50 (EB1), fast lane.

Now, on Jan 1 2000, X who is 21 years old joins the EB3 queue. There are 10 people on EB2 queue on this day. EB3 queue is hardly moving and X remains in the queue for 10 solid years. He is now 31. It is 2010.

The EB2 queue now has 100 people and our 100th person in the queue is SS and 35 years old.

The system allows X to join EB2 as he has turned 31 and also allows him to join behind the 10th person who was there on the EB2 queue as on Jan 1 2000 (if he was still there or be the 1st guy in the queue if the 10th person has already left the EB2 queue) as that was how many people were in the EB2 queue when X came in to this system.

Now SS cannot tolerate this for 2 reasons. One X came from EB3 (an inferior group per him) and next, X is 4 years younger and hence cannot get work permit ahead of him. He does not realize that he did not come in to the system when X came though he was senior and superior.

The system does not see that way. X was in the system for 10 years and he should be given priority in the system valuing the 10 years wait - irrespective of the queue he is in.

In other words, his queue might change but not his association with the system which is 10 years.

Now there could be people who show bogus age certificate and change queues. They have to be punished but not the system.

You don't set your house on fire just to kill few mosquitoes in there.

If you still don't agree, SunnySurya, good luck with your law suit! After all every human being commit mistakes in their life and is your turn now.

Rocky4884
08-11-2008, 07:52 PM
My simple question to you is are you in or are you out. If I rember correctly, you have masters and in Eb2 line...
If you are in, I want to give you call to discuss the logistics..

Hey funnySurya, I'm in (wherever you like) & want to discuss logistics, send me ur contact details...

PS I'm EB3 India educated and definitely make more $$ than you, I own a company :D but don't employ people like you, not too worried about GC, life is good.

SunnySurya
08-29-2008, 02:47 PM
Note:
This Lawsuit Idea is on hold for the following reasons:
a) Not enough interest in the affected parties
b) Cost of the litigation would be upwards of around 30K
c) The counsel has recommended to hold discussions with USCIS official first and give them sufficient time to respond to our concerns.
But we are following up on other avenues.

SunnySurya
11-03-2008, 04:03 PM
All,

This is a non issue now for all practical purpose because of recent Job Zone change for Computer Information Manager.
The porting to begin with was unethical in our mind and we took a stand. We were challanged by several people on this forum but they did not realize the extent of our convictions.
Unlike others with their lawsuits Ideas, in this case we did follow up on this issue by contacting DOL in early September with our greivance along with a famous lawyer on our side. Enclosed is our letter to Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao and other senior officials. We would like to think that our effort has contributed to the recent change in the Job Zones for Computer Information Manager, as that was specifically mentioned in our letter.. This was not exactly our intention as we just wanted DOL to put some more control around the labor certification process especially for the ones who already have a labor approved. Hence our apologies for the unintended consequences of this effort on the future applicants.
Thanks to these members who actively/morally supported us.
GCtest, abhijitrajan, Abhinaym, computer_gig, django.stone, jindhal, jonty_11, kalinga_sena, Karthikthiru, kevinkris, Leo07, newbie2020, nilendu, pmb76, prioritydate, rahulp, Still Waiting, vkannan and several others

Note:
We have further indication that any research position may be upgraded to Zone 5.
US educated may be viewed favorably espeicially in non IT engineering positions




There is a difference between laws and regulations. Laws are what in INA (Immigration and Naturalization Act) and Regulations are what in CFR.
It takes congress and senate to change laws where as it takes discretion to change regulations. And the good news is that discretion can be challenged.
There is another thread on the issue and some of us think that we do have a case. Initial response from a certain lawyer has been positive.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20669
The affected parties (i.e. us) need to show damage in certain way and I do have some points that can be used. Our primary point is that the spirit of law has not been upheld.

Following are the steps in making this a reality:
a) Gather around 50 people
b) Develop and finalize draft of the case. Rolling_Flood has a initial draft.
c) Hold initial consultation with a lawyer.
d) Decide as a team if we want to continue.
e) File a class action suit
Not sure what is the total cost but given the years of wait and uncertainty $500 per person should be reasonable. I will also create a yahoo group to start these discussions.

Notes:
If you already have applied in EB2 you won't be affected.
If you have a Masters you won't be affected.

ItIsNotFunny
11-03-2008, 04:16 PM
Please clarify where exactly you are going and whats your proposal. Please be more objective and cut bureaucratic statements.



All,

This is a non issue now for all practical purpose because of recent Job Zone change for Computer Information Manager.
The porting to begin with was unethical in our mind and we took a stand. We were challanged by several people on this forum but they did not realize the extent of our convictions.
Unlike others with their lawsuits Ideas, in this case we did follow up on this issue by contacting DOL in early September with our greivance along with a famous lawyer on our side. Enclosed is our letter to Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao and other senior officials. We would like to think that our effort has contributed to the recent change in the Job Zones for Computer Information Manager, as that was specifically mentioned in our letter.. This was not exactly our intention as we just wanted DOL to put some more control around the process. Hence our apologies for the unintended consequences of this effort on the future applicants.
Thanks to these members who actively/morally supported us.
GCtest, abhijitrajan, Abhinaym, computer_gig, django.stone, jindhal, jonty_11, kalinga_sena, Karthikthiru, kevinkris, Leo07, newbie2020, nilendu, pmb76, prioritydate, rahulp, Still Waiting, vkannan and several others

Note:
We have further indication that any research position may be upgraded to Zone 5.
US educated may be viewed favorably espeicially in non IT engineering positions

SunnySurya
11-03-2008, 04:22 PM
Not going anywhere, just providing the updates. We got what we wanted but at the same time did not like the way we got it.
Please clarify where exactly you are going and whats your proposal. Please be more objective and cut bureaucratic statements.

gcdreamer05
11-03-2008, 04:34 PM
Not going anywhere, just providing the updates. We got what we wanted but a the same time did not like the way we got it.

How much did you spend for getting this done ? And are you really happy with what this has resulted in to, now all those in computer information manager - lc will get in to trouble, more audits.

Was this really needed?

gc_on_demand
11-03-2008, 04:48 PM
How much did you spend for getting this done ? And are you really happy with what this has resulted in to, now all those in computer information manager - lc will get in to trouble, more audits.

Was this really needed?

Which labor will DOL going to audit ? Pending , future or approved ?

If approved and waiting to get approval for I 485 or filling I 485 then it will be big trouble.

ItIsNotFunny
11-03-2008, 04:58 PM
Guys,

I sincerely want this thread to be closed. This is killing our unity to fight common cause.

SunnySurya
11-03-2008, 05:00 PM
I agree with you this thread should be closed. Please see my original message. I accomplished, which I set to accomplish. In the face of everyone who doubted or questioned my committment.

No point in lingering on this issue. We have some bigger fish to fry now.

Guys,

I sincerely want this thread to be closed. This is killing our unity to fight common cause.

sweet_jungle
11-03-2008, 05:02 PM
I agree with you this thread should be closed. Please see my original message. I accomplished, which I set to accomlish. No point in lingering on this issue.


sorry, I never saw this thread.
Could you describe in a few lines what you accomplished and what were your intentions?

rajpatelemail
11-03-2008, 05:05 PM
Good Job SUnnySurya, Congrats on this achievement, it helps people with more merits.

Consulting companies with fake skills/resumes will be busted now to get GC..

priority_date2
11-03-2008, 05:24 PM
SunnySurya; GCtest; abhijitrajan; Abhinaym; computer_gig;
django.stone; jindhal; jonty_11; kalinga_sena; Karthikthiru;
kevinkris; Leo07; newbie2020; nilendu; pmb76;
prioritydate; rahulp; Still Waiting; vkannan

Pls check your private messages inbox

angelfire76
11-03-2008, 09:23 PM
Good Job SUnnySurya, Congrats on this achievement, it helps people with more merits.

Consulting companies with fake skills/resumes will be busted now to get GC..

Not only consulting companies but genuine companies in the software arena will also face trouble. If I interpret it correctly, most new hires at places like Google, MSFT, Amazon etc. even if having MS from top-notch universities in the US can apply only under EB-3 as their job description will fall in Job Zone 4.
On the other hand somebody having a non-IT or CS degree from a mom&pop University can find a job, state its "research" and upgrade to Job Zone 5 and apply under EB-2.
I wonder how this will fly with the affected companies?

SunnySurya
11-03-2008, 10:23 PM
Not an issue. It can be done using business necessity letter. Companies like Google should not have a issue as they regulary higher such qualified people. On the other hand , the non genuine case will have difficulty as from now onwards these positions will be scrutnized more closely. Moreover, any indication of fraud may result in the the audit of original labor also.

Not only consulting companies but genuine companies in the software arena will also face trouble. If I interpret it correctly, most new hires at places like Google, MSFT, Amazon etc. even if having MS from top-notch universities in the US can apply only under EB-3 as their job description will fall in Job Zone 4.
On the other hand somebody having a non-IT or CS degree from a mom&pop University can find a job, state its "research" and upgrade to Job Zone 5 and apply under EB-2.
I wonder how this will fly with the affected companies?

SunnySurya
11-04-2008, 10:49 AM
Admin: If you like you may please close this thread.
Final update on this issue.

Here is what I have been told. Please feel free to check with AILA or your lawyer. They may have more info.

In general, if an employer applies for a permanent labor certification for an individual with the Department of Labor (DOL), while DOL has already certified one or more positions with same or different employer for the same individual , it will be subjected to more scrutiny to prevent any fraud.

Thank You and Good Bye!
Happy Porting !

gc_on_demand
11-04-2008, 10:58 AM
Admin: If you like you may please close this thread.
Final update on this issue.

Here is what I have been told. Please feel free to check with AILA or your lawyer. They may have more info.

In general, if an employer applies for a permanent labor certification for an individual with the Department of Labor (DOL), while DOL has already certified one or more positions with same or different employer for the same individual , it will be subjected to more scrutiny to prevent any fraud.


Thank You and Good Bye!

Lawer will not give such info becasue people will stop filling new labor and they will loose business. More RFE and Audited case more work for them..

LOL !!

jamesbond007
11-04-2008, 11:14 AM
Admin: If you like you may please close this thread.
Final update on this issue.

Here is what I have been told. Please feel free to check with AILA or your lawyer. They may have more info.

In general, if an employer applies for a permanent labor certification for an individual with the Department of Labor (DOL), while DOL has already certified one or more positions with same or different employer for the same individual , it will be subjected to more scrutiny to prevent any fraud.

Thank You and Good Bye!
Happy Porting !

I think multiple labors has multiple faces:
1. Good talent is sought after. So if one is really good, multiple companies would want to get them to work for them. That would result in multiple labor petitions.
2. Individuals who are scared (company not reputed; they had issues in the past; or any other reason) tend to approach multiple companies and have them file a labor for them as a "backup".
3. Someone gets laid off from their initial sponsoring company finds another sponsor and files a subsequent labor.

If DOL scrutinizes such petitioners more than others, then its good. That will weed out pretenders; but also on the other hand, that will put genuine candidates petiotions into a pre-adjudicated state.

But I do not think a government agency can risk getting caught doing that. Their motive has to be to build standards that can be applied equally to all applicants across the board. They should be able to catch issues with any application, not just of those who are doing multiple LCAs.

singhsa3
11-04-2008, 11:20 AM
If they are indeed genuine then there should nothing be worried about. They would come out clean. Remember, the whole labor certification is to protect the interest of American people and not foreign workers like you and me.

If DOL scrutinizes such petitioners more than others, then its good. That will weed out pretenders; but also on the other hand, that will put genuine candidates petiotions into a pre-adjudicated state.

angelfire76
11-04-2008, 11:34 AM
Good talent is sought after. So if one is really good, multiple companies would want to get them to work for them. That would result in multiple labor petitions.
Good talent also needs to make up its mind as to which company to stick to. The "future job" labor petition is so full of holes that its misused lot more than its used.

Individuals who are scared (company not reputed; they had issues in the past; or any other reason) tend to approach multiple companies and have them file a labor for them as a "backup".

These "backups" are the ones clogging the system right now blocking genuine petitions from getting approved / denied quicker. Otherwise even at the rate at which the DOL works, I would think a decent time for petition approval/denial under PERM would be 8 weeks instead of 16+ weeks right now

Someone gets laid off from their initial sponsoring company finds another sponsor and files a subsequent labor.


This should be a pretty genuine case, which should survive any audit. No worries here.

jamesbond007
11-04-2008, 11:54 AM
Good talent also needs to make up its mind as to which company to stick to. The "future job" labor petition is so full of holes that its misused lot more than its used.


Its not so simple though. Even after finding a good company to stick to, you should not make up your mind to remain stagnant. When you work for about 5 years, you will be faced with a situation where you are asked to take on more responsibility.
The way things are with the current process, if you want to progress in your career and take on a new challenge (eg: database programmer to a DBA/architect), that would require a new LCA since there is a significant change in the responsibilities.
Also at big companies, there are several lines of businesses which are structured as if they are companies by themselves. If you want to shift between LOBs within the same big company, that would also require a new LCA.

singhsa3
11-04-2008, 12:04 PM
Well, all the jobs you mentioned in your message now falls in Zone 4 i.e. Eb3.
Only option that person may have now is to change career altogether in the fields where desi consulting companies do not operate.

Its not so simple though. Even after finding a good company to stick to, you should not make up your mind to remain stagnant. When you work for about 5 years, you will be faced with a situation where you are asked to take on more responsibility.
The way things are with the current process, if you want to progress in your career and take on a new challenge (eg: database programmer to a DBA/architect), that would require a new LCA since there is a significant change in the responsibilities.
Also at big companies, there are several lines of businesses which are structured as if they are companies by themselves. If you want to shift between LOBs within the same big company, that would also require a new LCA.

jamesbond007
11-04-2008, 12:10 PM
Well, all the jobs you mentioned in your message now falls in Zone 4 i.e. Eb3.
Only option that person may have now is to change career altogether in the fields where desi consulting companies do not operate.

I need to read up on the new zones implementation.

But if you may, please answer this question: If one wants to change jobs within the same company to a new job that falls in the same zone as his current one, can he do that without a new LCA?
The new job is in the same building/region; just some additional responsibility and would be in a different group than the present one.

singhsa3
11-04-2008, 12:15 PM
I think the question though genuine and points to the fundamental flaw in the system but is irrelevant to the point of discussion here.
The whole point is that the incentive for porting has been taken away by making computer information manger a Job Zone 4. In addition, additional scrutny will weed out any fraud.

I need to read up on the new zones implementation.

But if you may, please answer this question: If one wants to change jobs within the same company to a new job that falls in the same zone as his current one, can he do that without a new LCA?
The new job is in the same building/region; just some additional responsibility and would be in a different group than the present one.

angelfire76
11-04-2008, 02:15 PM
Well, all the jobs you mentioned in your message now falls in Zone 4 i.e. Eb3.
Only option that person may have now is to change career altogether in the fields where desi consulting companies do not operate.

Job Zone 4 does not automatically translate to EB3. Even though the title maybe EB-3, if the requirements exceed normal requirements for jobs in Job Zone 4 then after a (successful) business necessity audit the candidate maybe able to file in EB2. After all I don't think DOL is that brain-dead (yet?) to say that somebody with 15 yrs exp is the same as somebody with 1 yr exp although they have the same job title (E.g. Software Engineer title at Google generally has more experience and education than a software engineer title at a desi consulting company even though both fall in job zone 4

Solar power here has inadvertently opened Pandora's box in the process of trying to solve a genuine cause for concern. For most IT people it is going to be very tough to get EB2 classification (especially if you are just out of school and have decided to apply for a green card). It is better for them to look out for research positions and apply under Computer Scientists as this will atleast enable them to apply under EB2. Is this a good thing: If you are non-IT yes, if you are IT no as it just convoluted the process even more.

singhsa3
11-04-2008, 02:22 PM
Agreed...
Job Zone 4 does not automatically translate to EB3. Even though the title maybe EB-3, if the requirements exceed normal requirements for jobs in Job Zone 4 then after a (successful) business necessity audit the candidate maybe able to file in EB2.