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sc3
08-29-2008, 02:04 PM
Even if I be banned.

To all the EB2s who are talking about wanting transparency (because USCIS did not approve *your* GC in this round), and talking about letter campaign, media events and what not:

Well Well Well; Why dont you guys use the same advice you have been giving to EB3s all these days??

1) Be happy for people who are getting the GCs, when they are gone, you are next in line. So stop being a cry baby.

2) By starting these letter campaign etc, you are breaking the unity of IV, so stop discussing these things; support the recapture. (repeat that like a 1000 times, for any kind of proposal that someone makes).


I am very interested to know what moral right you have to start these discussions when you shoot down every EB3 discussion that ever starts

neverbefore
08-29-2008, 02:09 PM
Even if I be banned.

To all the EB2s who are talking about wanting transparency (because USCIS did not approve *your* GC in this round), and talking about letter campaign, media events and what not:

Well Well Well; Why dont you guys use the same advice you have been giving to EB3s all these days??

1) Be happy for people who are getting the GCs, when they are gone, you are next in line. So stop being a cry baby.

2) By starting these letter campaign etc, you are breaking the unity of IV, so stop discussing these things; support the recapture. (repeat that like a 1000 times, for any kind of proposal that someone makes).


I am very interested to what moral right you have to start these discussions when you shoot down every EB3 discussion that ever starts

You are right. Everyone should stick together. Let us prove the parable of 'Indian Crabs' wrong forever.
For the record, I am EB2-I. However, I like to think of myself as just one common GC aspirant like most every member here. Let us chuck all talk that disunites us.

pmb76
08-29-2008, 02:11 PM
Even if I be banned.

To all the EB2s who are talking about wanting transparency (because USCIS did not approve *your* GC in this round), and talking about letter campaign, media events and what not:

Well Well Well; Why dont you guys use the same advice you have been giving to EB3s all these days??

1) Be happy for people who are getting the GCs, when they are gone, you are next in line. So stop being a cry baby.

2) By starting these letter campaign etc, you are breaking the unity of IV, so stop discussing these things; support the recapture. (repeat that like a 1000 times, for any kind of proposal that someone makes).


I am very interested to what moral right you have to start these discussions when you shoot down every EB3 discussion that ever starts

There is a huge difference between EB2/EB3 discussion. dude, USCIS made these categories based on educational background and experience. Whoever has the educational background and years of experience is eligble for EB2 and the others are not. Why is it so difficult for you people to understand ? We as EB2 don't complain about EB1. Why ? Coz we know that they are more deserving than EB2 or EB3 and ought to get 1st preference. Similarly EB2s ought to have higher preference than EB3(like they already do) since most of them have a better educational background and years of experience that the position demands.
Grow up and stop whining.

gc_on_demand
08-29-2008, 02:16 PM
Lets work togethar for EB system. We should put visa recapture on top list of agendas.

United we stand , divided we fail.

NKR
08-29-2008, 02:17 PM
Even if I be banned.

To all the EB2s who are talking about wanting transparency (because USCIS did not approve *your* GC in this round), and talking about letter campaign, media events and what not:

Well Well Well; Why dont you guys use the same advice you have been giving to EB3s all these days??

1) Be happy for people who are getting the GCs, when they are gone, you are next in line. So stop being a cry baby.

2) By starting these letter campaign etc, you are breaking the unity of IV, so stop discussing these things; support the recapture. (repeat that like a 1000 times, for any kind of proposal that someone makes).


I am very interested to know what moral right you have to start these discussions when you shoot down every EB3 discussion that ever starts

You will be singing a different tune if yours is 2001 EB3 and a 2004 EB3 application gets approved. Please note that I am giving an example of two cases in the same category.

We never are not against people with newer PDs who got their GCs. We are saying that ours should be approved too.

gcgreen
08-29-2008, 02:19 PM
I beg to disagree. The difference between EB2 and EB3 is NOT in the individual's qualifications, but in the JOB REQUIREMENTS. To emphasize again, it has to do with the JOB REQUIREMENTS.

So going with your analogy, a Ph.D. who applies in EB2 is not any less deserving than a Ph.D. who applies in EB1. It depends on the requirements of the job. The Ph.D. who applied in EB1 category may have done so because he applied under outstanding researcher category because the job is that of researcher. The Ph.D. who applied in EB2 may have applied in that category because the job is not a research oriented job.

Please make sure you get your facts straight. Now, this does not mean that EB3s were right to gripe. I have no opinions on that :-)

Cheers.

There is a huge difference between EB2/EB3 discussion. dude, USCIS made these categories based on educational background and experience. Whoever has the educational background and years of experience is eligble for EB2 and the others are not. Why is it so difficult for you people to understand ? We as EB2 don't complain about EB1. Why ? Coz we know that they are more deserving than EB2 or EB3 and ought to get 1st preference. Similarly EB2s ought to have higher preference than EB3(like they already do) since most of them have a better educational background and years of experience that the position demands.
Grow up and stop whining.

dagabaaj
08-29-2008, 02:23 PM
There is a huge difference between EB2/EB3 discussion. dude, USCIS made these categories based on educational background and experience. Whoever has the educational background and years of experience is eligble for EB2 and the others are not. Why is it so difficult for you people to understand ? We as EB2 don't complain about EB1. Why ? Coz we know that they are more deserving than EB2 or EB3 and ought to get 1st preference. Similarly EB2s ought to have higher preference than EB3(like they already do) since most of them have a better educational background and years of experience that the position demands.
Grow up and stop whining.


Did you mean exactly what you wrote....then I am sorry to say that higher education did not teach you the important lesson of all, Humility. Go look up the meaning in the dictionary. B'coz all that cramming for GRE / GMAT you must have missed this word. I really feel sorry for you.......

sc3
08-29-2008, 02:23 PM
You will be singing a different tune if yours is 2001 EB3 and a 2004 EB3 application gets approved. Please note that I am giving an example of two cases in the same category.

We never asked “why did they approve an application with a newer PD?”. We are saying that ours should be approved too.

You miss the point. People who preach something should also follow it. I am not asking you to stop your, whatever is it that your are doing. I am just asking you about the moral grounds (if you even know what that means) you are choosing to start this campaign after asking EB3s to just support IV initiatives.

Shouldn't you be doing the same. That is just support IV initiatives?

For the record: I will not be singing any different tunes because I know quite a few 2004 applications will be approved before mine, because they have their RDs before mine.

trueguy
08-29-2008, 02:26 PM
There is a huge difference between EB2/EB3 discussion. dude, USCIS made these categories based on educational background and experience. Whoever has the educational background and years of experience is eligble for EB2 and the others are not. Why is it so difficult for you people to understand ? We as EB2 don't complain about EB1. Why ? Coz we know that they are more deserving than EB2 or EB3 and ought to get 1st preference. Similarly EB2s ought to have higher preference than EB3(like they already do) since most of them have a better educational background and years of experience that the position demands.
Grow up and stop whining.

Yes there is a difference in EB2 and EB3 and USCIS defined the difference. If you have 5 years of experience, you are qualified for EB2 otherwise EB3. Now don't USCIS understand that EB3 applicant waiting since 2001 has gained 7 years of experience by now and he is eligible for EB2 category.

If EB2 and EB3 don't unite for recapture campaign or any other efforts then current EB2 people will suffer the most. Why, because all EB3 people are applying in EB2 category and recapturing their PD. I myself EB3 with Nov 2002 PD and my EB2 labor is pending for 6months now.

What they have done to EB3 category is not fair. They are giving GC to people who just came to US couple years back who have produced most of the fake documents to be eligible for EB2 category.

gcgreen
08-29-2008, 02:30 PM
The 7 years experience is NOT required for performing the job that was advertised and on the basis of which the Labor Certification was obtained. Therefore, the USCIS cannot and will not consider the 7 years work experience. In fact, the rules are stricter. The rules (now I don't know who wrote these rules) say the beneficiary's experience in that same job cannot be used as the qualifying criteria.

But having said that, EB3 with 7 years experience and an APPROVED I140 can PORT their dates by applying for a NEW job that requires at least 5 years experience.

Yes there is a difference in EB2 and EB3 and USCIS defined the difference. If you have 5 years of experience, you are qualified for EB2 otherwise EB3. Now don't USCIS understand that EB3 applicant waiting since 2001 has gained 7 years of experience by now and he is eligible for EB2 category.

If EB2 and EB3 don't unite for recapture campaign or any other efforts then current EB2 people will suffer the most. Why, because all EB3 people are applying in EB2 category and recapturing their PD. I myself EB3 with Nov 2002 PD and my EB2 labor is pending for 6months now.

What they have done to EB3 category is not fair. They are giving GC to people who just came to US couple years back who have produced most of the fake documents to be eligible for EB2 category.

NKR
08-29-2008, 02:40 PM
You miss the point. People who preach something should also follow it. I am not asking you to stop your, whatever is it that your are doing. I am just asking you about the moral grounds (if you even know what that means) you are choosing to start this campaign after asking EB3s to just support IV initiatives.

Shouldn't you be doing the same. That is just support IV initiatives?

For the record: I will not be singing any different tunes because I know quite a few 2004 applications will be approved before mine, because they have their RDs before mine.


I do not have to tell you my moral grounds but since you have asked me, let me tell you this, just pull out one post of mine where in I have said anything against EB3.

I was supportive of EB3 efforts, read one of my previous posts below..

“I am an EB2 I applicant and my PD became current this month. If I do not care, I wouldn’t even be checking out this thread. I understand your pain and frustration, I was stuck too for a long time in the old labor process before perm came.

EB2 I people do not think EB3 I people are jealous. I do not think Rolling Flood is from India, let alone being an EB2 I applicant. He just rolled in thinking he can open a flood gate of arguments and counter-arguments, let’s just prove him wrong.”

I am against EB3 people waiting and I am against EB2 people waiting, I just want some order in processing. For your kind info, my first application was in EB3.

little_willy
08-29-2008, 02:44 PM
This is really sad. We call ourselves highly skilled and see how low we stoop. If there is injustice fight against the system, not among ourselves, this isn't going to get us anywhere. Look at Aman, he got his GC and still works hard to make every immigrant's life better. With all this infighting, I won't be surprised nor blame him if he started thinking whether he should really care for the community anymore.

I wish, everyone here thinks a moment before posting whatever comes to their mind.

ski_dude12
08-29-2008, 02:45 PM
Just curious - what is your PD/category?

Even if I be banned.

To all the EB2s who are talking about wanting transparency (because USCIS did not approve *your* GC in this round), and talking about letter campaign, media events and what not:

Well Well Well; Why dont you guys use the same advice you have been giving to EB3s all these days??

1) Be happy for people who are getting the GCs, when they are gone, you are next in line. So stop being a cry baby.

2) By starting these letter campaign etc, you are breaking the unity of IV, so stop discussing these things; support the recapture. (repeat that like a 1000 times, for any kind of proposal that someone makes).


I am very interested to know what moral right you have to start these discussions when you shoot down every EB3 discussion that ever starts

sc3
08-29-2008, 02:50 PM
I do not have to tell you my moral grounds but since you have asked me, let me tell you this, just pull out one post of mine where in I have said anything against EB3 and I will lick your feet.

I was supportive of EB3 efforts, read one of my previous posts below..

“I am an EB2 I applicant and my PD became current this month. If I do not care, I wouldn’t even be checking out this thread. I understand your pain and frustration, I was stuck too for a long time in the old labor process before perm came.

EB2 I people do not think EB3 I people are jealous. I do not think Rolling Flood is from India, let alone being an EB2 I applicant. He just rolled in thinking he can open a flood gate of arguments and counter-arguments, let’s just prove him wrong.”

I am against EB3 people waiting and I am against EB2 people waiting, I just want some order in processing. For your kind info, my first application was in EB3.

Please let us not get into slug fest here, if you haven't personally ever asked EB3s to stop the discussions, then I unreservedly apologize to you.

My comments are more towards the EB2s (sorry to generalize, I know quite a few Eb2s are nice and supportive) who have been saying that we need to get behind IV, but are now shooting off on their own because they feel USCIS should have worked according to *their* understanding of how USCIS should process applications. The premise of the initial post is for them to remember that they preached something in the past. It is now time for them to show their moral courage and implement their words for others which was to "Unite behind IV efforts".


Let me put a disclaimer to that: IV is one organization that believes in general immigration reforms -- It is not necessary that all us should only follow IV and leech off its efforts. If you have other avenues, you should pursue it. But be consistent in your message. Dont ask someone to follow IV only while you plan your own different schemes.

dhesha
08-29-2008, 02:59 PM
Even if I be banned.

To all the EB2s who are talking about wanting transparency (because USCIS did not approve *your* GC in this round), and talking about letter campaign, media events and what not:

Well Well Well; Why dont you guys use the same advice you have been giving to EB3s all these days??

1) Be happy for people who are getting the GCs, when they are gone, you are next in line. So stop being a cry baby.

2) By starting these letter campaign etc, you are breaking the unity of IV, so stop discussing these things; support the recapture. (repeat that like a 1000 times, for any kind of proposal that someone makes).


I am very interested to know what moral right you have to start these discussions when you shoot down every EB3 discussion that ever starts

Let me attempt to answer your concerns. First of all the condition of EB2 and EB3 is different. EB3 is not current so there is no question of expecting any thing from USCIS and hence the advise is to wait and keep working on those bills to recapture visa etc.
However for EB2, the dates are current however the folks with newer PD are getting cards while older one are waiting which is unfair, unethical and illegal and hence so much agitation.

So you should not compare these two different conditions. Once EB3 will be current and they dont follow the rule we all should do the same thing for EB3 as well.

So dont misunderstand the things and try to creation things like Eb2 vs EB3, there is no such thing, we all are together but fighting at different levels.

Hope this helps to cool you down!!

NKR
08-29-2008, 03:00 PM
Please let us not get into slug fest here, if you haven't personally ever asked EB3s to stop the discussions, then I unreservedly apologize to you.

My comments are more towards the EB2s (sorry to generalize, I know quite a few Eb2s are nice and supportive) who have been saying that we need to get behind IV, but are now shooting off on their own because they feel USCIS should have worked according to *their* understanding of how USCIS should process applications. The premise of the initial post is for them to remember that they preached something in the past. It is now time for them to show their moral courage and implement their words for others which was to "Unite behind IV efforts".

No probs, I think there was no EB2/EB3 fighting until the issue of portability came into picture. I can’t talk for others but I had no issue with it.

a1b2c3
08-29-2008, 03:02 PM
Most of the EB2's do understand the painful waiting times for EB3.
Yes, the position demands lower experience and skills when it gets first advertised but many times (not always) in practice the same job applicant grows senior and more experienced and starts handling more responsibilities.
There is no provision to re-advertise for a senior job position for the same applicant, without restarting the process all over again.
Most organizations are even unwilling to start from a clean slate even if the application is ok.

I think some folks miss the point that due to long delays in processing there are these gaps being generated and then end up hurting others inadvertently.
I think we should stop this EB2 vs EB3 discussions for good.

Junky
08-29-2008, 03:21 PM
I disagree with you. I have been here in US since last 9 years. I have a MS from the US University & have 7 years of experience but still my employer (of course M*****F***** DESI) filed in the EB3 justifying & saying that job does not require MS hence can not file under EB2. Do you still think that you are more deserving than me?
So may be you need to "GROW UP & STOP WHINING" coz that's how system (USCIS & DOL) works here.

There is a huge difference between EB2/EB3 discussion. dude, USCIS made these categories based on educational background and experience. Whoever has the educational background and years of experience is eligble for EB2 and the others are not. Why is it so difficult for you people to understand ? We as EB2 don't complain about EB1. Why ? Coz we know that they are more deserving than EB2 or EB3 and ought to get 1st preference. Similarly EB2s ought to have higher preference than EB3(like they already do) since most of them have a better educational background and years of experience that the position demands.
Grow up and stop whining.

jonty_11
08-29-2008, 03:24 PM
beating a dead horse is something ppl could learn from som eof themembers at IV...

Lets UNITE folks...why even mention ghosts of the past..and concentrate on teh future...

Better_Days
08-29-2008, 05:16 PM
You are right. Everyone should stick together. Let us prove the parable of 'Indian Crabs' wrong forever.

Care to share the stereotype for the benefit of those who are not Indians?

May be I am dramatizing but the visualization that keeps coming to my mind is that of a medieval lord eating on a table and every once in a while throwing a piece of bone to the hungry masses milling around :( who then start fighting with one another to get to the bone. Do we really have to act like this? :confused:

I am EB3-ROW with a PD of late 2007 or early 2008. When USCIS changed the visa flow horizontally, it impacted me tremendously. But such is life. I think we should focus on activities that are of benefit to everyone rather than trying to get to that 1 extra bone. Considering the length of delays involved and the fluid nature of immigration, it in inevitable that changes to process & procedure will happen through this journey and that while some stand to benefit at the expense of others.

Who said life was fair ?

desi3933
08-29-2008, 05:26 PM
I disagree with you. I have been here in US since last 9 years. I have a MS from the US University & have 7 years of experience but still my employer (of course M*****F***** DESI) filed in the EB3 justifying & saying that job does not require MS hence can not file under EB2. Do you still think that you are more deserving than me?

So may be you need to "GROW UP & STOP WHINING" coz that's how system (USCIS & DOL) works here.


So, why did you join EB-3 job instead of EB-2 job? Since you have USA MS degree, you should have gone for job with EB-2 requirements.

LostInGCProcess
08-29-2008, 05:47 PM
There is a huge difference between EB2/EB3 discussion. dude, USCIS made these categories based on educational background and experience. Whoever has the educational background and years of experience is eligble for EB2 and the others are not. Why is it so difficult for you people to understand ? We as EB2 don't complain about EB1. Why ? Coz we know that they are more deserving than EB2 or EB3 and ought to get 1st preference. Similarly EB2s ought to have higher preference than EB3(like they already do) since most of them have a better educational background and years of experience that the position demands.
Grow up and stop whining.

Well said !!! I totally agree with you...its as simple as that, what you said...
I gave you a Green :D

LostInGCProcess
08-29-2008, 05:49 PM
I beg to disagree. The difference between EB2 and EB3 is NOT in the individual's qualifications, but in the JOB REQUIREMENTS. To emphasize again, it has to do with the JOB REQUIREMENTS.

So going with your analogy, a Ph.D. who applies in EB2 is not any less deserving than a Ph.D. who applies in EB1. It depends on the requirements of the job. The Ph.D. who applied in EB1 category may have done so because he applied under outstanding researcher category because the job is that of researcher. The Ph.D. who applied in EB2 may have applied in that category because the job is not a research oriented job.

Please make sure you get your facts straight. Now, this does not mean that EB3s were right to gripe. I have no opinions on that :-)

Cheers.

In that case, find the right job and get into the right category!!!

royus77
08-29-2008, 05:49 PM
I disagree with you. I have been here in US since last 9 years. I have a MS from the US University & have 7 years of experience but still my employer (of course M*****F***** DESI) filed in the EB3 justifying & saying that job does not require MS hence can not file under EB2. Do you still think that you are more deserving than me?
So may be you need to "GROW UP & STOP WHINING" coz that's how system (USCIS & DOL) works here.

I totally agree with you and pity for you sticking with that employer and job which wont reflect your background. For GC you have to loose some thing

LostInGCProcess
08-29-2008, 05:52 PM
I disagree with you. I have been here in US since last 9 years. I have a MS from the US University & have 7 years of experience but still my employer (of course M*****F***** DESI) filed in the EB3 justifying & saying that job does not require MS hence can not file under EB2. Do you still think that you are more deserving than me?
So may be you need to "GROW UP & STOP WHINING" coz that's how system (USCIS & DOL) works here.

You have an option to get out of that company and find a different one, if you are well qualified. You made the choice...don't blame others.

gcgreen
08-29-2008, 06:38 PM
LostInGCProcess: Who said I have not found the "right job" or that I am not in the "right category?"

Funny! My earlier post was primarily factual information about the process. I was not expressing any disappointments or whining... :-)

In that case, find the right job and get into the right category!!!

superdoc
08-29-2008, 06:47 PM
There is a huge difference between EB2/EB3 discussion. dude, USCIS made these categories based on educational background and experience. Whoever has the educational background and years of experience is eligble for EB2 and the others are not. Why is it so difficult for you people to understand ? We as EB2 don't complain about EB1. Why ? Coz we know that they are more deserving than EB2 or EB3 and ought to get 1st preference. Similarly EB2s ought to have higher preference than EB3(like they already do) since most of them have a better educational background and years of experience that the position demands.
Grow up and stop whining.
i agree with u...to all the guy who states its based on the jobb description..it's not that simple..u need to prove research, outstanding qualifications etc for eb -1

AS I POSTED EARLIER MOST PEOPLE ARE IN THE CORRECT CATEGORY AS THEY SHOULD BE --- THIS IS THE BASIS OF SKILLED BASED GC--I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS RIGHT OR WRONG THIS IS JUST THEY WAY IT !~!

polapragada
08-29-2008, 07:22 PM
There is a huge difference between EB2/EB3 discussion. dude, USCIS made these categories based on educational background and experience. Whoever has the educational background and years of experience is eligble for EB2 and the others are not. Why is it so difficult for you people to understand ? We as EB2 don't complain about EB1. Why ? Coz we know that they are more deserving than EB2 or EB3 and ought to get 1st preference. Similarly EB2s ought to have higher preference than EB3(like they already do) since most of them have a better educational background and years of experience that the position demands.
Grow up and stop whining.

Well said.!

EB2 People will care about EB2. Whats wrong in that? 1st reason we are here(in IV) for GC. Not because we are immigrents or some thing. EB2 has priority over EB3 per USCIS. So ....

polapragada
08-29-2008, 07:26 PM
I disagree with you. I have been here in US since last 9 years. I have a MS from the US University & have 7 years of experience but still my employer (of course M*****F***** DESI) filed in the EB3 justifying & saying that job does not require MS hence can not file under EB2. Do you still think that you are more deserving than me?
So may be you need to "GROW UP & STOP WHINING" coz that's how system (USCIS & DOL) works here.

Now you are scolding your employer... Dude... I belive you are also a desi using such words... Not good.

You said your job (or employer said) doesn't require Masters.. So you are qualified for a better job. Think about it

ab_tak_chappan
08-29-2008, 08:23 PM
Yes yes contribute to the high five :D:D
beating a dead horse is something ppl could learn from som eof themembers at IV...

Lets UNITE folks...why even mention ghosts of the past..and concentrate on teh future...

alapkd
08-29-2008, 09:32 PM
I disagree with you. I have been here in US since last 9 years. I have a MS from the US University & have 7 years of experience but still my employer (of course M*****F***** DESI) filed in the EB3 justifying & saying that job does not require MS hence can not file under EB2. Do you still think that you are more deserving than me?
So may be you need to "GROW UP & STOP WHINING" coz that's how system (USCIS & DOL) works here.

I understand your frustration. you should quit go back to india and try to get another h1. if you accept injustice as this is perceived by you then people will exploit you. there is no point in dragging life in this country if ur life and career is hampered by a desi employer who is exploiting you.

rajeev_74
08-29-2008, 09:42 PM
We all are in agreement that the immigration system is antiquated but somehow strongly believe that the current EB1, EB2 and EB3 classification makes any sense and that they reflect the value of an immigrant...nice going guys...I cannot help but feel sorry for you guys....

cygent
08-29-2008, 09:48 PM
I understand your frustration. you should quit go back to india and try to get another h1. if you accept injustice as this is perceived by you then people will exploit you. there is no point in dragging life in this country if ur life and career is hampered by a desi employer who is exploiting you.

My situation is ditto to junky's. Tough pill to swallow when you've been waiting so long, and to rub it in guys come waltzing in in 2006 and already have GC's. Cest La Vie - Such is Life. It's hard enough with work & family, but to deal with CIS+Employer+Attorney over an extended period of time is too much for any soul.

forever
08-29-2008, 09:59 PM
Well Well Well; Why dont you guys use the same advice you have been giving to EB3s all these days??


I liked your point and initiative to start this thread. I just gave you green.

gimme_GC2006
08-29-2008, 10:49 PM
I beg to disagree. The difference between EB2 and EB3 is NOT in the individual's qualifications, but in the JOB REQUIREMENTS. To emphasize again, it has to do with the JOB REQUIREMENTS.


I second this post.totally agree

rani77
08-29-2008, 11:17 PM
Even if I be banned.

To all the EB2s who are talking about wanting transparency (because USCIS did not approve *your* GC in this round), and talking about letter campaign, media events and what not:

Well Well Well; Why dont you guys use the same advice you have been giving to EB3s all these days??

1) Be happy for people who are getting the GCs, when they are gone, you are next in line. So stop being a cry baby.

2) By starting these letter campaign etc, you are breaking the unity of IV, so stop discussing these things; support the recapture. (repeat that like a 1000 times, for any kind of proposal that someone makes).


I am very interested to know what moral right you have to start these discussions when you shoot down every EB3 discussion that ever starts

You first statement about being banned shows that you are just blowing some steam off. But to blow steam at EB2 folks is not fair , even though i agree that what is happening with EB3 is not fair either. Is it EB2 peoples fault that they applied in EB2 or the way USCIS interpreted the overflow this year compared to last year??? If one looks back at the stats that are released EB3 always have had more approvals as compared to EB2 in last few years even when EB2 as well as EB3 were stuck at PD for some time. There is no doubt that EB3 is going get the shorter end of the bargain. I mean the demand of visa numbers of EB3 far outweigh than that of EB2 . There are various reasons that people could not file in EB2 even though they were eligible to it ,some were told that their cases were filed in EB2 where infact they were filed in EB3. I mean read a case on one of the forums where a person has filed for 485 for almost 10 years and still has not got a decision and to top it all his financial condition is not good . look his life is lost when USICIS was INS , when i look at his case i think we are pretty much in a better situation. I mean first it was people were against labor substitution ( I am not encouraging labor sub at all), then EB3 to EB2 conversion(keeping the oldest PD) now looks like people are venting anger at a particular category. We all know how consulting cos were not filing Eb2 cases in 2002 2003 2004 and after PERM the majority of cases are filed in EB2 rather than EB3 . So whats next???

rani77
08-30-2008, 12:04 PM
I liked your point and initiative to start this thread. I just gave you green.

I am sure he would love the green from USCIS though :D

chmur
08-30-2008, 01:01 PM
There is a huge difference between EB2/EB3 discussion. dude, USCIS made these categories based on educational background and experience. Whoever has the educational background and years of experience is eligble for EB2 and the others are not. Why is it so difficult for you people to understand ? We as EB2 don't complain about EB1. Why ? Coz we know that they are more deserving than EB2 or EB3 and ought to get 1st preference. Similarly EB2s ought to have higher preference than EB3(like they already do) since most of them have a better educational background and years of experience that the position demands.
Grow up and stop whining.

Dude you are so wrong ....nice try anyway.....Difference between EB3 and Eb2 is so minimal that in 2007 USCIs actually alloted more visas to Eb3 than Eb2.

Anyway ---EB2 guys have done some pretty significant damage to unity . The onus is on EB2 guys to repair it. EB3 guys are waiting .

For all those 2004 EB2 whiners ...grow up ...have patience ...and this is not the first time it is happening ......last year many 2003 Eb3s got approved ahead 2002 Eb3s and now those EB# filers are looking at long wait .....things happen ...life is not fair .....have patience ....things will happen.

Hey you are still going to get it ahead of 2002/3 Eb3s...that should satiate your jealousy...right

Till then we can all post /blog /relax/whine/

Have a good day

masterji
08-30-2008, 01:12 PM
I also agree 100%, this is simple rule:
Most qualified? Have a Ph.D.? Get GC in fast track..it is as simple as this.
Well said !!! I totally agree with you...its as simple as that, what you said...
I gave you a Green :D

chmur
08-30-2008, 01:27 PM
In that case, find the right job and get into the right category!!!

Correct and the same applies to 2004 EB2 whiners too. They should have understood how USCIS works understand it's processing algorithm and timed their application accordingly.

If one doesen't exist at USCIS then 2004 Eb2 whiners were fully aware that anything,including what has happened now, might happen going into the application process.
They cannot blame others or seek others help because they failed to do their homework ahead of time.

if they had paid attention to how 2003 EB3 got approved ahead of 2002 EB3 approvers last year then they would have started this campaign last year , when we were all united and would not have reached this stage.


It is such pontification by EB2 to EB3 , though factually right, but pragmatically wrong which has irked EB3s.

Now to come back with tail between their legs and seek help of the larger community is very surprising.


I expect some red dots ......

LostInGCProcess
08-30-2008, 03:42 PM
You first statement about being banned shows that you are just blowing some steam off. But to blow steam at EB2 folks is not fair , even though i agree that what is happening with EB3 is not fair either. Is it EB2 peoples fault that they applied in EB2 or the way USCIS interpreted the overflow this year compared to last year??? If one looks back at the stats that are released EB3 always have had more approvals as compared to EB2 in last few years even when EB2 as well as EB3 were stuck at PD for some time. There is no doubt that EB3 is going get the shorter end of the bargain. I mean the demand of visa numbers of EB3 far outweigh than that of EB2 . There are various reasons that people could not file in EB2 even though they were eligible to it ,some were told that their cases were filed in EB2 where infact they were filed in EB3. I mean read a case on one of the forums where a person has filed for 485 for almost 10 years and still has not got a decision and to top it all his financial condition is not good . look his life is lost when USICIS was INS , when i look at his case i think we are pretty much in a better situation. I mean first it was people were against labor substitution ( I am not encouraging labor sub at all), then EB3 to EB2 conversion(keeping the oldest PD) now looks like people are venting anger at a particular category. We all know how consulting cos were not filing Eb2 cases in 2002 2003 2004 and after PERM the majority of cases are filed in EB2 rather than EB3 . So whats next???

There are various reasons that people could not file in EB2 even though they were eligible to it
give examples and let us know whos fault is that.

some were told that their cases were filed in EB2 where infact they were filed in EB3
So, you think its EB2's mistake, that a person who was lied to, by their employer/attornet about the category...wow!!!

I mean read a case on one of the forums where a person has filed for 485 for almost 10 years and still has not got a decision and to top it all his financial condition is not good
Do you know all the circumstances, to his particular case, that led to this long wait? and is it systemic with USCIS, or just an exception?

abracadabra102
08-30-2008, 07:09 PM
Take it easy folks. In the end we are all screwed by USCIS one way or the other. Go here (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20674)and have a laugh instead of re-opening old wounds :-)

kondur_007
08-30-2008, 11:08 PM
This is a very interesting thread. I am surprised with the arguments...nothing personal, but I don't think this is an appropriate issue to argue about.

1. I don't think anybody can disagree with the fact that current system is not the optimum way of handling employment based immigration. Neither EB2s nor EB3s like it!!

2. Validity of EB categories is always challenged and in some cases it holds its essense; but in others, it does not. People have put forth example of an EB1 PhD candidate who is running a grocery store after getting his GC and the other extreme is an EB3 tech wizard who is stuck despite of all kinds of qualification and abilities that are really "in high demand". Again, nothing personal. I just believe that this discussion will not lead us anywhere.

3. All kinds of EBs will agree that what we need is more visa numbers. Of course, everyone has the greatest interest in his/her own GC (this is natural); but nobody is against "other people" getting their GCs as well.

4. At the end, I will mention one more time (and yes, I know most people are tired of listening this from me): We need to discuss OUR agenda for CIR for the upcoming year. CIR is inevitable next year, and we need to decide our strategy for that. We need a thread to brain-storm ideas for increasing EB visa numbers and better EB immigration "system" for everyone. (like alternatives of current EB1, EB2, EB3 system; something that is better--otherwise we might be stuck with "point system" that they suggested in old CIR).

Hope everyone gets his/her GC soon!

niklshah
08-30-2008, 11:48 PM
there we go.............all great people ( highly educated) are in WWF ring again.......

dontcareanymore
08-31-2008, 04:03 AM
Kondur , How did you manage to get PERM approved in a month ? :) :)
Must be one of those luckey ones who got approved before they started sending cases to ATL :) , Any ways , congrats and good luck with I140.


Every one knows the system is unfair , but they are okay with the system if the system gives their GC faster. Bottom line : most of us are selfish and most of us get screwed by the process, Once in a while with some KY jelly (July bulletin and recent EB2 dates move) and we get all excited and think we are Miss Universe and therefore we got a well deserved better treatment (EB2s thumping chest). With Oct bulletin in 15 days the parity will come down and we all will get our feet on the ground then.

Yes, your examples are all correct. I myself know so many examples. Too many even to list, and there is no use even in going through.

I dont think most EB3s are mad because EB2 people are getting GCs faster , but pissed off by the attitude of some EB2s.
EB2 getting a faster GC is not even a debatable point. EB2s get GCs faster than EB3.Period. Otherwise why will there be any categorization.

But how do you feel if you are EB3 and an EB2 suggest you the following :

"All you EB3s waiting from 2001 , let us all EB2s with 2008 PD get our GCs and when there is no EB2 pending , you can star getting yours , and oh by the way , you are just useless POS EB3 any way.".

Coming to unity , IV and achieving some success with the process , Do you seriously think that is even possible ? We cant even put them in the same sentence. we successfully devided between :
1) ROW and IN-CHN
2) EB2 and EB3
3) in a few days EB2I _ PD 2004 VS EB2I-PD2006
and all possible combinations.

I wonder, whether you would say the same things if your PD were to be 2006 instead of 2008 :rolleyes:



This is a very interesting thread. I am surprised with the arguments...nothing personal, but I don't think this is an appropriate issue to argue about.

1. I don't think anybody can disagree with the fact that current system is not the optimum way of handling employment based immigration. Neither EB2s nor EB3s like it!!

2. Validity of EB categories is always challenged and in some cases it holds its essense; but in others, it does not. People have put forth example of an EB1 PhD candidate who is running a grocery store after getting his GC and the other extreme is an EB3 tech wizard who is stuck despite of all kinds of qualification and abilities that are really "in high demand". Again, nothing personal. I just believe that this discussion will not lead us anywhere.

3. All kinds of EBs will agree that what we need is more visa numbers. Of course, everyone has the greatest interest in his/her own GC (this is natural); but nobody is against "other people" getting their GCs as well.

4. At the end, I will mention one more time (and yes, I know most people are tired of listening this from me): We need to discuss OUR agenda for CIR for the upcoming year. CIR is inevitable next year, and we need to decide our strategy for that. We need a thread to brain-storm ideas for increasing EB visa numbers and better EB immigration "system" for everyone. (like alternatives of current EB1, EB2, EB3 system; something that is better--otherwise we might be stuck with "point system" that they suggested in old CIR).

Hope everyone gets his/her GC soon!

meridiani.planum
08-31-2008, 06:47 AM
I also agree 100%, this is simple rule:
Most qualified? Have a Ph.D.? Get GC in fast track..it is as simple as this.

having a PhD is not co-related to employability or having skills that are in demand in the US or will add value to the US. That is the mistake Canada made in its immigration system, and the US should avoid... (& is hte reason PhD permanent residents in Canada have to drive taxis to get by).
What is really high-valued (in my humble opinion) for EB2/EB3 is:
- how long you have lived here.
- how much more than median income you have been making all that while.

anyone who has lived here long has 'settled in', has displayed a skillset htat is useful to the US (because it has kept him employed till now), and how much more than median income you make is a direct co-relation to how valued your contribution to the company is.

Note that even for EB-1 its not a PhD alone that counts, you need to have published papers, won awards and be otherwise recognized as a leader in your field. Simply having a PhD in any field should not mean an automatic fast-track on GC...

rani77
08-31-2008, 10:50 AM
give examples and let us know whos fault is that.



So, you think its EB2's mistake, that a person who was lied to, by their employer/attornet about the category...wow!!!


Do you know all the circumstances, to his particular case, that led to this long wait? and is it systemic with USCIS, or just an exception?

LostInGcProcess,
your response show that you are frustated and in no capacity to debate or understand things. You are abusive and taking your frustation out on other people. Shows that you are right now LostInMind

LostInGCProcess
08-31-2008, 02:03 PM
LostInGcProcess,
your response show that you are frustated and in no capacity to debate or understand things. You are abusive and taking your frustation out on other people. Shows that you are right now LostInMind

Ha ha ha...this is hilarious !!!

Why don't you respond to the question I have posted instead of sidetracking? I asked simple questions, cause you have brought those points, and you must be in a position to corroborate your claim.

In a debate, questions and answers flow both ways.....not your wining :D

masterji
08-31-2008, 03:21 PM
You said just the opposite. In Canada there are points for your occupation to be in high demand. In US anyone in ANY fields with a Ph.D. and publication, awards etc. can apply for GC from ANYWHERE in the world. They do not wait for years for their GC. No sponsorship is required. And there are no bonus 'points' for his/her occupation to be in high demand. The bottom line is highly qualified and brilliant people, scientists, patent owners etc. in US can still get GC in fast track. And this is 100% fair.

having a PhD is not co-related to employability or having skills that are in demand in the US or will add value to the US. That is the mistake Canada made in its immigration system, and the US should avoid... (& is hte reason PhD permanent residents in Canada have to drive taxis to get by).
What is really high-valued (in my humble opinion) for EB2/EB3 is:
- how long you have lived here.
- how much more than median income you have been making all that while.

anyone who has lived here long has 'settled in', has displayed a skillset htat is useful to the US (because it has kept him employed till now), and how much more than median income you make is a direct co-relation to how valued your contribution to the company is.

Note that even for EB-1 its not a PhD alone that counts, you need to have published papers, won awards and be otherwise recognized as a leader in your field. Simply having a PhD in any field should not mean an automatic fast-track on GC...

gsc999
08-31-2008, 06:31 PM
Looks here guys, there is enough reason to be frustrated with the USCIS's process. The best way to channel our frustration would be to do something constructive for our own cause.

Let me hear from you if you are interested in some volunteering activities for IV

Cheers!

g

pappu
09-01-2008, 12:46 AM
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/9910/gay16km3.jpg

:D

meridiani.planum
09-01-2008, 02:38 AM
You said just the opposite. In Canada there are points for your occupation to be in high demand. In US anyone in ANY fields with a Ph.D. and publication, awards etc. can apply for GC from ANYWHERE in the world. They do not wait for years for their GC. No sponsorship is required. And there are no bonus 'points' for his/her occupation to be in high demand. The bottom line is highly qualified and brilliant people, scientists, patent owners etc. in US can still get GC in fast track. And this is 100% fair.

I was referring to your comment about 'have a PhD, get GC in fast-track'. And I again say, its not as simple as that. This same argument was being used in the points-based system for GC that was being proposed in the Comprehensive_Immigration-Reform bill. Basically anyone with a PhD anywhere irrespective of employability in the US would jump in line of someone who has a masters from the US, but a job offer already at hand. Such blind faith in degree without looking at other factors is a bad idea.
Agree with the bottom line you said: highly qualified and brilliant people who are deemed to be adding value to teh US, should be fast-tracked to GC. Its just that to identify it, we need to go beyond just the degree the person has.

sc3
09-04-2008, 03:07 AM
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/9910/gay16km3.jpg

So how was the experience? Having sex with this thread. You were the only one who realized this thread to be gay. And BTW: I salute your courage to come out of the closet -- being gay, and having sex with like choiced threads. When you get your citizenship, do vote Dem, they support gay marriages more then Republicans.

hopefulgc
09-04-2008, 10:50 AM
one angry brother!

chill out man

So how was the experience? Having sex with this thread. You were the only one who realized this thread to be gay. And BTW: I salute your courage to come out of the closet -- being gay, and having sex with like choiced threads. When you get your citizenship, do vote Dem, they support gay marriages more then Republicans.

miapplicant
09-04-2008, 11:02 AM
There is a huge difference between EB2/EB3 discussion. dude, USCIS made these categories based on educational background and experience. Whoever has the educational background and years of experience is eligble for EB2 and the others are not. Why is it so difficult for you people to understand ? We as EB2 don't complain about EB1. Why ? Coz we know that they are more deserving than EB2 or EB3 and ought to get 1st preference. Similarly EB2s ought to have higher preference than EB3(like they already do) since most of them have a better educational background and years of experience that the position demands.
Grow up and stop whining.

You are wrong because there are several of us who qualified for EB-2 but were placed in EB-3 per lawyers or God knows whose doing. My PD is Feb 2003 EB3-I so stop blowing that horn that EB2 is better qualified and thats why they get a priority. Some of us are not only suffering the injustice related to the current situation but also to the fact that our application was filed in EB3 despite having qualifications (And before you jump back at me, for some reason during that time they didn;t file for EB2s).