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View Full Version : Urgent: HR/Immigration department not filing in EB2. Need advice please!


want_a_gc
07-23-2011, 09:27 PM
Getting my company to file my green card - round 2 - EB2 instead of EB3
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Hello everyone! I was here last time because my company would not file my GC. After a lot of fighting I finally am going into the pipeline (Yey!) BUT unfortunately, I received an email from the lawyer stating that my application will be filed in EB3 and NOT EB2.

From my understanding, one is eligible to file in EB2 if one holds a master's degree and the company is willing to say that they need a master's degree candidate to perform the job.

Now as per the JD that they're filing they have stated that they need a Bachelors candidate or someone with two years of industry experience. Is it possible for my manager to change this requirement to Master's degree candidate?

How do I convince the lawyers / HR / department that they need to file my application in EB2 instead of EB3? Please help me.

chanduv23
07-23-2011, 10:08 PM
Getting my company to file my green card - round 2 - EB2 instead of EB3
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello everyone! I was here last time because my company would not file my GC. After a lot of fighting I finally am going into the pipeline (Yey!) BUT unfortunately, I received an email from the lawyer stating that my application will be filed in EB3 and NOT EB2.

From my understanding, one is eligible to file in EB2 if one holds a master's degree and the company is willing to say that they need a master's degree candidate to perform the job.

Now as per the JD that they're filing they have stated that they need a Bachelors candidate or someone with two years of industry experience. Is it possible for my manager to change this requirement to Master's degree candidate?

How do I convince the lawyers / HR / department that they need to file my application in EB2 instead of EB3? Please help me.

Eb2 or eb3 is based on the job requirement and not qualification. U may be a double phd but if the job you do qualifies for eb3 then ur qualification does not matter.

U may want to look for an employer who can give u a job that qualifies for eb2

diptam
07-23-2011, 10:20 PM
If you are qualified for EB2, get a job which requires EB2. I exactly did that and boom -Now my PD got ported from EB3 to Eb2 in 2011. Simple !! but I lost 6 valuable years in between. My old employer was also like your employer and I pampered them as if they are doing a big favor to me... I came here in 2000 and back in 2005. they filed
GC for me in Eb3 ... loser company and they made me aloser as well...

Just thought of saying so that no one else makes the mistake that I made ... If u r EB2 qualified get a Eb2 job and file in EB2 - PERIOD.

Getting my company to file my green card - round 2 -
EB2 instead of EB3
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello everyone! I was here last time because my company would not file my GC. After a lot of fighting I finally am going into the pipeline (Yey!) BUT unfortunately, I received an email from the lawyer stating that my application will be filed in EB3 and NOT EB2.

From my understanding, one is eligible to file in EB2 if one holds a master's degree and the company is willing to say that they need a master's degree candidate to perform the job.

Now as per the JD that they're filing they have stated that they need a Bachelors candidate or someone with two years of industry experience. Is it possible for my manager to change this requirement to Master's degree candidate?

How do I convince the lawyers / HR / department that they need to file my application in EB2 instead of EB3? Please help me.

want_a_gc
07-23-2011, 10:21 PM
chanduv23, please read my post carefully. I know that my position should require a masters. I am sure my position needs a masters. Hence my question - can my manager change the JD to reflect a master's requirement so that I can file in EB2?

slowwin
07-23-2011, 10:51 PM
options for you
1) Try convincing your manager... to set the job qualification as masters + some years experience. Might not work as manager might defer to HR. BUT if you are a valuable resource to your manager, he might pull strings for you. worth a try.

2) if 1) is a no go, let them continue processing in EB3. at this point you as long as you are in this job.. something is happening regarding GC. this is purely a stop gap measure.

last but not the least, in fact this option should be your GOAL,
3) look for an eb2 job, if successful in getting an offer for such a job, make sure you would be filed in eb2, before accepting. you can retain priority date form option 2)if they filed I-140 and it was approved, before your option 3 materialized.


Getting my company to file my green card - round 2 - EB2 instead of EB3
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello everyone! I was here last time because my company would not file my GC. After a lot of fighting I finally am going into the pipeline (Yey!) BUT unfortunately, I received an email from the lawyer stating that my application will be filed in EB3 and NOT EB2.

From my understanding, one is eligible to file in EB2 if one holds a master's degree and the company is willing to say that they need a master's degree candidate to perform the job.

Now as per the JD that they're filing they have stated that they need a Bachelors candidate or someone with two years of industry experience. Is it possible for my manager to change this requirement to Master's degree candidate?

How do I convince the lawyers / HR / department that they need to file my application in EB2 instead of EB3? Please help me.

want_a_gc
07-24-2011, 12:02 AM
slowwin, diptam, i believe my job does require a master's degree. I am not sure why is HR screwing around with my JD and saying they need only bachelors. I will attempt to talk to my manager and get it sorted out. All I wanted to know was what are the dynamics of 'pulling the strings' that would be required on the part of my manager so that the HR folks ensure that my JD requires a Master's degree and not a Bachelors and so that we can put that on the JD.

what_now
07-24-2011, 10:07 AM
slowwin, diptam, i believe my job does require a master's degree. I am not sure why is HR screwing around with my JD and saying they need only bachelors. I will attempt to talk to my manager and get it sorted out. All I wanted to know was what are the dynamics of 'pulling the strings' that would be required on the part of my manager so that the HR folks ensure that my JD requires a Master's degree and not a Bachelors and so that we can put that on the JD.

Obvious reason is MONEY.... :D EB2 qualified job comes back with a lot of prevailing wages from DOL than EB3 job.

slowwin
07-24-2011, 11:05 AM
If your boss is a "take charge" kind of manager and you are a valuable resource to him (i.e., not easily replaceable) he would bat for you. But if the manager is "play it safe" type, he would defer it to HR and in turn HR might defer it to Attorney (the attorney obviously would make more money with a longer duration on the case i.e., for eb3 and he might justify filing in eb3 as being safe whereas eb2 might be a possibility, but is a dicey one). This scenario is not a far fetched one. it happens all the time. I can cite at least 10 examples right away, including myself. In my case, the Vice-President of my previous employer's group had multiple meetings with VP of HR regarding my case to push for eb2 but to no avail. The reason given was that the attorney recommendation cannot be overlooked. The implicit meaning was they are spending money on your sponsorship and would need to show positive result for it. if the attorney says eb3...everybody follows eb3. it is a play it safe approach for everyone involved from HR to manager.

slowwin, diptam, i believe my job does require a master's degree. I am not sure why is HR screwing around with my JD and saying they need only bachelors. I will attempt to talk to my manager and get it sorted out. All I wanted to know was what are the dynamics of 'pulling the strings' that would be required on the part of my manager so that the HR folks ensure that my JD requires a Master's degree and not a Bachelors and so that we can put that on the JD.

forgerator
07-24-2011, 11:29 AM
want_a_gc , I went through the exact same pain back in 2007 . See my signature.

I work for a Fortune 50 company, and around 2007 I reached out to my manager to start my gc process. Keep in mind that I too had a Masters degree. Unfortunately when the time came to do PERM, I was told that my app would be filed in EB3. I was furious and told my manager to do something but he said his hands were tied. The job that I had was one which required only Bachelors + 2 years, and so they had to do EB3.

I then asked manager if something else was possible, perhaps they could promote me or give me a complex project which would necessitate the need for EB2 but he didn't budge. At that time I was like what the hell, let's just go forward with it, at least I can get to the point of an approved I-140 and later on, perhaps I can file in EB2 when the timing and conditions are right.

Fast forward from 2007 to 2010, now I got promoted and working in a role which definitely 100% requires at least Bachelors + 5 yrs. It also came with a very nice salary raise :) . So I reached out to my new manager and told him to start on EB2. Keep in mind, this is the same Fortune 50 company. Finally here I am , July 2011, thanks to God, waiting for lawyer to file my I-140 and I-485 concurrently. Hopefully, greencards for me and my wife, should be no more than 3-4 months away!

But to be honest, if I think back to 2007, I could have argued a little bit more with my manager (or senior manager) and possibly tried for EB2. If that were the case, I would have had GC in my hand in 2009.

want_a_gc
07-24-2011, 03:47 PM
But to be honest, if I think back to 2007, I could have argued a little bit more with my manager (or senior manager) and possibly tried for EB2. If that were the case, I would have had GC in my hand in 2009.

I am planning on doing exactly this. The thing is that I am doing some pretty high visibility projects and have a very good reputation in my department. But I have heard / seen that there has been favoritism / bias in promoting people. I actually should be one or more levels above my existing position and this is not only my opinion but my department's architect's opinion and he has been trying to let the senior management know that. But unfortunately this has not borne any fruit.

Sad part is that this is not some body shop who wants to exploit H1s (unfortunately dealing with the HR folks more often than not makes me feel that way). I dont know if this is my good fortune or bad fortune but my manager is on leave and I have to deal with her boss for the time being.

Obvious reason is MONEY.... :D EB2 qualified job comes back with a lot of prevailing wages from DOL than EB3 job.

I am sorry but I am naive. What do you mean by "EB2 qualified job comes back with a lot of prevailing wages from DOL"?

what_now
07-24-2011, 03:57 PM
I am planning on doing exactly this. The thing is that I am doing some pretty high visibility projects and have a very good reputation in my department. But I have heard / seen that there has been favoritism / bias in promoting people. I actually should be one or more levels above my existing position and this is not only my opinion but my department's architect's opinion and he has been trying to let the senior management know that. But unfortunately this has not borne any fruit.

Sad part is that this is not some body shop who wants to exploit H1s (unfortunately dealing with the HR folks more often than not makes me feel that way). I dont know if this is my good fortune or bad fortune but my manager is on leave and I have to deal with her boss for the time being.



I am sorry but I am naive. What do you mean by "EB2 qualified job comes back with a lot of prevailing wages from DOL"?

processing needs prevailing wage report from DOL. If your JD has Master requirement then prevailing wage comes back much higher than JD with Bachelors requirement. Employers are bound to pay you prevailing wage rate after you get your GC. Hope this is clear.

want_a_gc
07-24-2011, 04:06 PM
processing needs prevailing wage report from DOL. If your JD has Master requirement then prevailing wage comes back much higher than JD with Bachelors requirement. Employers are bound to pay you prevailing wage rate after you get your GC. Hope this is clear.

I have all the documents the lawyers used to process my H1B. Is there a way for me to check what the prevailing wage is for my position? I remember vaguely about some OES number but I am not sure about it.

Edit: Just checked my H1B LCA. Does this have any bearing on my GC LCA? Are they totally different? This one says LCA for Non Immigrant worker. I would assume the LCA for the GC would say 'LCA for Immigrant worker'. Is that correct?

what_now
07-24-2011, 04:37 PM
I have all the documents the lawyers used to process my H1B. Is there a way for me to check what the prevailing wage is for my position? I remember vaguely about some OES number but I am not sure about it.

Edit: Just checked my H1B LCA. Does this have any bearing on my GC LCA? Are they totally different? This one says LCA for Non Immigrant worker. I would assume the LCA for the GC would say 'LCA for Immigrant worker'. Is that correct?

H1LCA. First step for filing a GC is PERM. Before you file PERM employer need to request for Prevailing wage report in that area.

want_a_gc
07-24-2011, 05:01 PM
H1LCA. First step for filing a GC is PERM. Before you file PERM employer need to request for Prevailing wage report in that area.

Is the LCA for PERM completely independent of the LCA filed for my H1B? or do the details of the H1B LCA have some bearing (negative) on the PERM LCA?

I checked my H1B LCA and it says I am in Job Zone - 4, Education and Training Code - 5 (Bachelor's degree) and Wage Level 2. This makes sense because they filed for my H1B before I completed my Master's degree.

what_now
07-24-2011, 05:40 PM
Is the LCA for PERM completely independent of the LCA filed for my H1B? or do the details of the H1B LCA have some bearing (negative) on the PERM LCA?

I checked my H1B LCA and it says I am in Job Zone - 4, Education and Training Code - 5 (Bachelor's degree) and Wage Level 2. This makes sense because they filed for my H1B before I completed my Master's degree.
this employer before you received masters?. If this is true then I don't think you can not use masters degree anyway....

forgerator
07-24-2011, 05:59 PM
What "what now" is saying is that , if you're in a role which is paying you say hypothetically 60k salary and you try to do your case in EB2 , it could be rejected in the Prevailing Wage stage because who knows in your area and labour market 60k is not sufficient. But there are ways around that by having lawyers provide alternative surveys.

Prevailing wage should not be the deciding factor. I know because I had at least a couple of friends who filed under EB2 and their prevailing wage requirement came up way more than they actually made. But they went the alternate survey route, and have green cards in hand today.

The main trick is to get manager to change job description to show that it requires MS. If he will not do that then my advice is to look first in the same company for a job that will. Check your internal job listings. Also make your manager aware that you're absolutely not happy with the status quo, and that you are looking for a different position only because of the EB2 category. Perhaps when he understands the stakes, he might take a different approach to your situation. It really depends on your manager - sometimes they get scared enough that they circle back with director/vp and then things start moving. You mentioned you were on some high visibility projects and others think well of you. This should work in your favor.

In my situation, after I got promoted in 2010, my new manager would not start my green card process in EB2, saying that there were some new HR policies which prevent them from filing. Guess what I did, I went to manager, and told him, you need to start on my process asap, because god forbid if you don't, another company might swoop in to pull me and I would have no reason to stick around especially if they did my greencard in EB2. That was enough for my manager and our HR person to scramble and start the process. :)

I don't mean to boast, and perhaps what I did was risky, but you have to take drastic steps like these to sometimes get the wheels rolling...

want_a_gc
07-24-2011, 07:47 PM
forgerator, is it just about getting the manager to change the JD? I believe the HR is responsible for the JD as it is common for employees at the same level (internal only). So the way it works is that the title for a Junior Engineer and a Senior Engineer is the same but internally they are of different levels. If we have to go through HR to change the JD by changing my internal level then I may need to wait until I get promoted to file for EB2.

I feel I have been unfairly kept at a lower level because if they promote me they would have to pay me more etc.

forgerator
07-24-2011, 08:14 PM
forgerator, is it just about getting the manager to change the JD? I believe the HR is responsible for the JD as it is common for employees at the same level (internal only). So the way it works is that the title for a Junior Engineer and a Senior Engineer is the same but internally they are of different levels. If we have to go through HR to change the JD by changing my internal level then I may need to wait until I get promoted to file for EB2.

I feel I have been unfairly kept at a lower level because if they promote me they would have to pay me more etc.

Yes I think this is the main issue. You have to take a big stand on that. Show that you're not happy at all. If they truly value you, they will find a way to help you out. Tell manager that for you, it's more important to have the senior title and job description rather than the pay, because it helps you get into EB2.

If nothing works at all, then proceed with EB3, but right after I-140 approval, switch jobs to a different internal position but negotiate with new manager to start asap on EB2 gc process. Worst case you lose maybe a couple of years.

Also what is your country of chargeability? If it's ROW (rest of the world) , you can have GC in hand in slightly less than a year.

want_a_gc
07-24-2011, 08:48 PM
My country of chargeability is India. So, yeah I'll have to wait a long long time :( Thanks for all the advice!

want_a_gc
07-27-2011, 08:31 PM
Ok guys, I need a little help concerning the work experience. I spoke to the attorney as well as my manager. They are being positive about changing the requirements to a minimum of masters (yey!).

Now I am concerned about what can & cannot be used as work-ex. Say the JD requires Masters + 1 yrs of experience. Does that experience need to be post masters or can it be post bachelors.

I forgot to clarify this point. Thanks!

PHANI_TAVVALA
07-27-2011, 08:43 PM
Ok guys, I need a little help concerning the work experience. I spoke to the attorney as well as my manager. They are being positive about changing the requirements to a minimum of masters (yey!).

Now I am concerned about what can & cannot be used as work-ex. Say the JD requires Masters + 1 yrs of experience. Does that experience need to be post masters or can it be post bachelors.

I forgot to clarify this point. Thanks!

It doesn't matter your experience is post-bachelor's or post-master's but it cannot be experience you gained in your current position (even if it is prior to filing PERM).

sk.aggarwal
07-27-2011, 11:28 PM
just be careful what you get into ..what ever JD you use for perm, ensure that you meet or exceed that before joining the employer. So if you got MS after joining the company, you can not use it. If you had 5 years of exp before joining, you can say Bachelors + 5 yes exp for EB2

want_a_gc
07-28-2011, 12:56 AM
PHANI_TAVVALA, thanks.

sk.aggarwal, I got the offer BEFORE I graduated BUT it was subject to my graduation. I joined the company AFTER my graduation date.

vnarang23
07-28-2011, 07:20 AM
Hi:

I know of a case of a friend whose green card was filed under the EB2 category. He had a Master's from here in the US as well.

The company did not require a MS for that position, but there is a work around for that as well..

The JD can state the following...just an example (the years of experience below vary with what is stated in your job description)

Bachelor's + 5 years experience

Master's + 3 years experience

The JD should also state somewhere "Master's preferred". Putting down MS preferred will also qualify your application for EB2.

Hope that helps and you are able to talk to your HR and attorney about it. Make sure you talk to the attorney as well, as they are the ones who usually have a trick up their sleeve, not the HR.

Thanks

ivgclive
07-28-2011, 10:39 AM
chanduv23, please read my post carefully. I know that my position should require a masters. I am sure my position needs a masters. Hence my question - can my manager change the JD to reflect a master's requirement so that I can file in EB2?

If they change the JD as it requires (4Y-UG + 5 Years progressive experience) OR Masters Degeree, runs ad., get resumes, interview them and not finding anyone other than you, Yes. Your case can be filed in EB2.

Ask them if they can do from scratch again...

Remember if you are in a big company with a HR Department, the above is quite an expensive process.

vnarang23
07-28-2011, 10:52 AM
I would advice to puruse your current company to include the words like BS+x yrs of exp or MS+y yrs of exp. Also, add in MS preferred...

Make sure you do this first before they post the ad. Hold off on posting the ad if there is a discussion between you, your manager, HR, and the attorney.

Additionally, dont just look to switch at this point with the hope that the other company will file the green card, even if they yes during the interview. It means nothing unless something is file with immigration.

All da best. Remember, you have to negotiate hard to get anything done. It is the same everywhere in the world, but an extra step for us with regards to immigration in the US.

Thanks

srinibg
07-28-2011, 11:45 AM
chanduv23, please read my post carefully. I know that my position should require a masters. I am sure my position needs a masters. Hence my question - can my manager change the JD to reflect a master's requirement so that I can file in EB2?


Sometimes there is a tendency for people to overestimate their skills.
I am not 100% sure your position REQUIRES a Masters. If it did, they would not have hired you before you got masters and they would not have advertized the job as bachelors required.

Also, you say u should be 2 positions higher than current. If that is true, they will promote you. If they are not doing it, then they dont care if you work for them or not.

Bottomline: If you really think you should be in EB2. you should find a job that needs an EB2. Period.

permfiling
07-28-2011, 11:32 PM
Getting my company to file my green card - round 2 - EB2 instead of EB3
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello everyone! I was here last time because my company would not file my GC. After a lot of fighting I finally am going into the pipeline (Yey!) BUT unfortunately, I received an email from the lawyer stating that my application will be filed in EB3 and NOT EB2.

From my understanding, one is eligible to file in EB2 if one holds a master's degree and the company is willing to say that they need a master's degree candidate to perform the job.

Now as per the JD that they're filing they have stated that they need a Bachelors candidate or someone with two years of industry experience. Is it possible for my manager to change this requirement to Master's degree candidate?

How do I convince the lawyers / HR / department that they need to file my application in EB2 instead of EB3? Please help me.

My cousin was in the same situation...he politely told his manager and HR that if not filed in EB2 then don't bother to file as he will start looking out ...u can take that risk of politely take a more demanding position (again depends on how valuable ur role in the team is ...if ur a super star then companies do take the extra mile)

want_a_gc
07-29-2011, 02:21 AM
Thank you everyone for your help and excellent perspective! I greatly appreciate it. :)

devamanohar
07-29-2011, 09:15 AM
My employer has 20K employees. Around 2K are foreign employees. This employer is debarred in filing any more labor cert for two years. My EB-3 was approved on Aug 2006 and gave my application for EB-2 last year. The HR accepted my application a year ago for EB-2 and promised me. Now two weeks ago, the labor dept banned any more filing for two years and fined for misappropriation in bringing foreign employees.

Please send your suggestions and how to procced.

I-140 approved

I-485 filed on 7/2/2007

EAD

want_a_gc
07-29-2011, 11:06 AM
devamanohar, I think you can either keep waiting until your GC is approved in EB3 or move to a new company and refile in EB2 and I believe you will be able to keep your PD. But you'll have to refile everything beginning from PERM and before your process completes your previous company needs to keep the I140 alive.

forgerator
07-29-2011, 02:14 PM
Sometimes there is a tendency for people to overestimate their skills.
I am not 100% sure your position REQUIRES a Masters. If it did, they would not have hired you before you got masters and they would not have advertized the job as bachelors required.

Also, you say u should be 2 positions higher than current. If that is true, they will promote you. If they are not doing it, then they dont care if you work for them or not.

Bottomline: If you really think you should be in EB2. you should find a job that needs an EB2. Period.

You will be surprised sometimes at the level of politics and "you scratch my back , I scratch yours" kind of thinking in corporations.

Lots of managers overlook or choose not to promote their hard working employees simply because they want to further their own agenda. Sometimes even if the manager is on your side, his hands might be tied because the senior manager has his own agenda and so forth.

It's not always the case that promotion is merit based, although in an ideal and fair world it should.

It's only when the sh** hits the fan, do they act.. and same exact thing happened with me. I was not promoted until 2010 and that was when I told my existing team that I am leaving for another internal team. The existing team manager had previously turned down promotion several times for me, but this time she was begging to promote me but I said no, and moved to the new team where I got the promotion and also the work was more interesting.

permfiling
07-29-2011, 09:49 PM
You will be surprised sometimes at the level of politics and "you scratch my back , I scratch yours" kind of thinking in corporations.

Lots of managers overlook or choose not to promote their hard working employees simply because they want to further their own agenda. Sometimes even if the manager is on your side, his hands might be tied because the senior manager has his own agenda and so forth.

It's not always the case that promotion is merit based, although in an ideal and fair world it should.

It's only when the sh** hits the fan, do they act.. and same exact thing happened with me. I was not promoted until 2010 and that was when I told my existing team that I am leaving for another internal team. The existing team manager had previously turned down promotion several times for me, but this time she was begging to promote me but I said no, and moved to the new team where I got the promotion and also the work was more interesting.

You are 100% right. Managers do know that you are on visa and they play this game. One of my friend initially asked a VP as to how to grow in a big organization she was and she was asked first if she had GC or USC. She later switched to another team internally but she was given layoff notice after 6 months of switching (her PERM was approved ) as it was motivated politically to make her go back to the old team and everyone thought she would due to her PERM approved but she showed them the middle finger and left the company.

want_a_gc
07-31-2011, 11:16 PM
Guys one more question. The JD that the lawyers are finalizing have a 'special skills' section on it. From what I have heard on the internet, it seems having too many special skills in that section may make it too specific to my profile. Then again, all the special skills listed in the section are what my position requires and I am currently using ALL those skills.

Is there any issue in having like 10-12 special skills listed in the JD? Would that be considered as tailoring the skills to my position? Also how am I supposed to prove those skills? Is it ok if I have gained those skills as a part of my Bachelor's degree? Is it good enough that they're listed as a part of the syllabus? or do I need to get some letter from the university to prove that I actually did that course (it's already listed on my official transcript).

Thanks!