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View Full Version : FYI: Substituted labors come to haunt immigration seekers


potatoeater
04-10-2009, 09:26 PM
As many are aware, there was a huge rush to buy and sell pre-approved labors during July-August 2007, when all the priority dates were suddenly made current. Tens of thousands of labors were sold by fraudulent consulting companies to many questionable GC seekers, who hadn’t even started the process till then.

It is those substituted labors which are clogging the pipelines now. Just think, last month EB3-I stood at November 2001. Now it is completely unavailable. It can’t possibly be because so many pending labors with such old priority dates suddenly got cleared this month, and beneficiary of these labors filed 140+485 together. I seriously doubt that a candidate whose labor is pending since such a long time is even keeping that GC process alive. In all likelihood he/she must have moved on in life.

There is only one explanation. These labors were already pre-approved. It is the attached I-140 on these labors that are getting approved rapidly. And the subsequent I-485 petitions on these applications are depleting the visa numbers.

The reason of this post is not to start an argument about the ethics of labor substitution. It is just a FYI post to explain the seemingly inexplicable. The chickens are coming home to roost.

gimme_GC2006
04-10-2009, 09:37 PM
As many are aware, there was a huge rush to buy and sell pre-approved labors during July-August 2007, when all the priority dates were suddenly made current. Tens of thousands of labors were sold by fraudulent consulting companies to many questionable GC seekers, who hadnít even started the process till then.

It is those substituted labors which are clogging the pipelines now. Just think, last month EB3-I stood at November 2001. Now it is completely unavailable. It canít be possibly because so many pending labors with such old priority dates suddenly got cleared this month, and beneficiary of these labors filed 140+485 together. I seriously doubt that a candidate whose labor is pending since such a long time is even keeping that GC process alive. In all likelihood he/she must have moved on in life.

There is only one explanation. These labors were already pre-approved. It is the attached I-140 on these labors that are getting approved rapidly. And the subsequent I-485 petitions on these applications are depleting the visa numbers.

The reason of this post is not to start an argument about the ethics of labor substitution. It is just a FYI post to explain the seemingly inexplicable. The chickens are coming home to roost.
here you go..another..best and brightest.:D

Do you care to update your profile first :p

go_guy123
04-10-2009, 10:31 PM
As many are aware, there was a huge rush to buy and sell pre-approved labors during July-August 2007, when all the priority dates were suddenly made current. Tens of thousands of labors were sold by fraudulent consulting companies to many questionable GC seekers, who hadnít even started the process till then.

It is those substituted labors which are clogging the pipelines now. Just think, last month EB3-I stood at November 2001. Now it is completely unavailable. It canít be possibly because so many pending labors with such old priority dates suddenly got cleared this month, and beneficiary of these labors filed 140+485 together. I seriously doubt that a candidate whose labor is pending since such a long time is even keeping that GC process alive. In all likelihood he/she must have moved on in life.

There is only one explanation. These labors were already pre-approved. It is the attached I-140 on these labors that are getting approved rapidly. And the subsequent I-485 petitions on these applications are depleting the visa numbers.

The reason of this post is not to start an argument about the ethics of labor substitution. It is just a FYI post to explain the seemingly inexplicable. The chickens are coming home to roost.


Yes true. A significant chunk of the old PDs now are cases of substituted labor.
Labor substitution was acting like a time machine to go back in time and apply for GC.
People paid as high as 10K to 12K for old labor.

thomachan72
04-11-2009, 09:48 AM
your immagination/calculation might be true.....so what?? Havnt we seen a lot of posting about what mischief is being done by a handful?? why do we spend our time on analysing that? IV shouldn't be a website where I log in in the morning and find what all mischief is happening or happened or will happen. There are mischief makers and let the law deal with them. we are a group of straightforward individuals who wish to concenterate on fighting the injustice of the extreme delays. If there was a mischief the USCIS is supposed to catch them and fix it. it is not allowed to delay yours/ mine just because a few others did something wrong. Please concentrate on today and tomorrow. Plan for a new line of action and we will join.

potatoeater
04-11-2009, 11:21 AM
I reiterate what I said in my earlier post. The purpose of the post was not to start an argument. It was just an explanation of a baffling retrogression of dates.

Many people in these forums were asking bewilderingly, how can dates which were already retrogressed by eight years can go further back? Are there people around who are waiting for 8 years just to get their labors cleared? If their labors were already done, then what were they doing for 8 years before filing AOS petitions? I explained that no, nobody was waiting for all these years at the labor stage. These are new candidates utilizing old pre-approved labors. Thats all.

In fact, I predict retrogression to U level in EB2-I also. Many of these same people will now jump the queue again and switch to EB2 category.

Again, this is no judgment passing. Just an explanation of things as they stand. It is what it is.

Peace.


your immagination/calculation might be true.....so what?? Havnt we seen a lot of posting about what mischief is being done by a handful?? why do we spend our time on analysing that? IV shouldn't be a website where I log in in the morning and find what all mischief is happening or happened or will happen. There are mischief makers and let the law deal with them. we are a group of straightforward individuals who wish to concenterate on fighting the injustice of the extreme delays. If there was a mischief the USCIS is supposed to catch them and fix it. it is not allowed to delay yours/ mine just because a few others did something wrong. Please concentrate on today and tomorrow. Plan for a new line of action and we will join.

thomachan72
04-11-2009, 11:29 AM
I reiterate what I said in my earlier post. The purpose of the post was not to start an argument. It was just an explanation of a baffling retrogression of dates.

Many people in these forums were asking bewilderingly, how can dates which were already retrogressed by eight years can go further back? Are there people around who are waiting for 8 years just to get their labors cleared? If their labors were already done, then what were they doing for 8 years before filing AOS petitions? I explained that no, nobody was waiting for all these years at the labor stage. These are new candidates utilizing old pre-approved labors. Thats all.

In fact, I predict retrogression to U level in EB2-I also. Many of these same people will now jump the queue again and switch to EB2 category.

Again, this is no judgment passing. Just an explanation of things as they stand. It is what it is.

Peace.
no problem. by the way before somebody jumps on you..pls update your profile. :D

cinqsit
04-11-2009, 11:30 AM
...
I seriously doubt that a candidate whose labor is pending since such a long time is even keeping that GC process alive. In all likelihood he/she must have moved on in life.
...


I think I know a few with PD < 2002 still waiting....Its hard to give up when you have waited so long....

As far as rest of the post it might be true but with USCIS everything is speculative since
this process is so god damn opaque :-(

chanduv23
04-11-2009, 11:50 AM
This is the sad reality. A lot of people applied using sub labor during the June and July fiasco. A lot of people made it through the July 15th deadline by atleast filing a 140 through sub labor.
Now USCIS is processing all these 140s and as they have old dates, they are becoming approvable.
As long as there are visas with old dates approvable - USICS will exhaust them. As long as USCIS exhausts old visas, DOS need not move the dates forward.

Nil
04-11-2009, 11:50 AM
This thread brings up a good point - of labor reuse & misuse in yester-years.
Incidentally there are many who have never seen a glimpse of what is inside their labor certification as the employer & their lawyer still refuses to share it with the candidate. And i am not talking of the oft-bashed consulting companies.

For the candidate - who continues to pursue the American dream, it is:
1) Not Transparent
2) Subjugation to the whim of Employer / Lawyer
3) Non compliant to a common code implying a non level field of play
Thereby Unfair.

In my humble opinion - should be part of the core argument we have against the system.

axp817
04-11-2009, 11:52 AM
as many are aware, there was a huge rush to buy and sell pre-approved labors during july-august 2007, when all the priority dates were suddenly made current. Tens of thousands of labors were sold by fraudulent consulting companies to many questionable gc seekers, who hadnít even started the process till then.

It is those substituted labors which are clogging the pipelines now. Just think, last month eb3-i stood at november 2001. Now it is completely unavailable. It canít possibly be because so many pending labors with such old priority dates suddenly got cleared this month, and beneficiary of these labors filed 140+485 together. I seriously doubt that a candidate whose labor is pending since such a long time is even keeping that gc process alive. In all likelihood he/she must have moved on in life.

There is only one explanation. These labors were already pre-approved. It is the attached i-140 on these labors that are getting approved rapidly. And the subsequent i-485 petitions on these applications are depleting the visa numbers.

The reason of this post is not to start an argument about the ethics of labor substitution. It is just a fyi post to explain the seemingly inexplicable. The chickens are coming home to roost.

+1

potatoeater
04-11-2009, 11:59 AM
I think I know a few with PD < 2002 still waiting....Its hard to give up when you have waited so long....


Of course there are many, may be thousands who are waiting since 2002 or earlier. But the logic I gave was that these guys must have already filed their their AOS petitions in the interim years.

My point was that, there is no way so many ancient labors (pre 2001) can get cleared last month and cause depletion of visa numbers. There is only one explanation. These labors were pre-approved.

suriajay12
04-11-2009, 12:19 PM
Hi PotatoEater !!

What you said may be true for case like some who really applied in Nov 01 is waiting and someone who applied in Jul 07 with a substituted labor of Sep 01 got it. It ends there.
Those are a few lucky fellows, but did it legally.
That doesnt solve much of the backlogs problem even if that didnt happen. Analyze the situation in May 07. It was horrible, right.
It was luck AILA and other groups including IV could contribute to keep the dates current for that month, for our benefit

husamymd
04-11-2009, 12:46 PM
I heard from a friend who has a brother working in one of the lawyers affiliated with the AILA that USCIS has issued an internal memo to "go slow" on all EB 3 petitions including EB 3 I. That is very confusing to me given that EB3 I is U on the May VB. Has anyone else heard about this? if so can the IV core take measures against this discriminitory move.

chanduv23
04-11-2009, 01:14 PM
I heard from a friend who has a brother working in one of the lawyers affiliated with the AILA that USCIS has issued an internal memo to "go slow" on all EB 3 petitions including EB 3 I. That is very confusing to me given that EB3 I is U on the May VB. Has anyone else heard about this? if so can the IV core take measures against this discriminitory move.

Well - at the end of the fiscal year - their goal is to exhaust the quota. They have to exhaust the quota and they figured out that they have old EB2 approvable cases. As long as they exhaust quota it literally means there is demand - there is nothing much we can do - we are just stuck.

I request the entire community to unite and do something for ourselves. Admin fixes in form of preadjudication and recapture in form of legislation. Unless we do something for ourselves, as time passes - things will get more tough for us.

Pallavi79
04-11-2009, 02:22 PM
1. they have country limit for diversification. >> us(culprit) immigration is broken.
2. substitution labor >> desi employers(culprit) sold it.
3. my employer did not file for GC because layoffs couple of years back. >> general public are culprit. they caused our employer to get loss.
4.other employers filed GC for other people. >> other employers are culprit. they filed GC to retain their employers.
5.EB2 category : if they do not exist, I would have got spillover visas.
6.EB1 employers : employers are filing in EB1 category for the same skill set as mine
7.EB2 employers: employers are filing in EB2 for the same skill set as mine.
8.Dollar : Seriously. Dollar is a culprit. Last year Dollar value is less. So many foreigners are able to afford dollar and they filed for investor visa. Without that I would have got spillover visas
9.140 portability : many people are porting 140, PD from previous employer to new employer. They are able to retain old priority dates than me.
Any others??
How can I get GC with all these things.

Folks, this is for your information. not for the argument.

just kidding. :)
How about stopping the disscussions which divides the community.

I can understand the frustration of long wait for GC. The fight is for immigrant and non immigrant visas. Everyone(individuals like you and me), desi employers, desi MNCs, american companies wants to play by rules. The system is not fair. thats the reality.

rajuseattle
04-11-2009, 08:02 PM
USCIS do have some checks and balances for the subst labor cases, so its not a staright approvals for the lab subst cases. their might be a possibility few lucky ones get off the hook, but overall USCIS can weed out the dubious/fraudulent employer petitions.

Sub labor is not the only reason guys, its just the country cap which is limiting india EB-3 and EB-2. Most of the H1Bs like us coming to us ends up applying for GC, now look at the number of H1Bs coming each year from india and the total number of GCs available for india. Their is a huge gap in these numbers, so unless they remove the country cap or recaptured unused VISA numbers from the past years, we dont see any relief.

Please donate to IV and help lobbying for the admin fixes or the laws which going to help us in the long run.

mps
04-12-2009, 12:17 AM
I read on Rajiv Khanna's blog that PD for LC substitution cases should be the date when I-140 is filed for substitute however, there is evidence that USCIS has wrongly assigned orginal priority date of LC filing, to substitute (I have seen this happening in one case at least, where susbstitue got priotity date of LC).

antihero
04-12-2009, 12:36 AM
I believe as per the current rules CIS routinely assigns the PD of the substitute labor as the PD of the replacement worker.

What Rajiv Khanna says is very fair, but unfortunately CIS is not run by Khanna. In any case, can you please post the link to the aforementioned blog.

I read on Rajiv Khanna's blog that PD for LC substitution cases should be the date when I-140 is filed for substitute however, there is evidence that USCIS has wrongly assigned orginal priority date of LC filing, to substitute (I have seen this happening in one case at least, where susbstitue got priotity date of LC).

gcisadawg
04-12-2009, 01:09 AM
1. they have country limit for diversification. >> us(culprit) immigration is broken.
2. substitution labor >> desi employers(culprit) sold it.
3. my employer did not file for GC because layoffs couple of years back. >> general public are culprit. they caused our employer to get loss.
4.other employers filed GC for other people. >> other employers are culprit. they filed GC to retain their employers.
5.EB2 category : if they do not exist, I would have got spillover visas.
6.EB1 employers : employers are filing in EB1 category for the same skill set as mine
7.EB2 employers: employers are filing in EB2 for the same skill set as mine.
8.Dollar : Seriously. Dollar is a culprit. Last year Dollar value is less. So many foreigners are able to afford dollar and they filed for investor visa. Without that I would have got spillover visas
9.140 portability : many people are porting 140, PD from previous employer to new employer. They are able to retain old priority dates than me.
Any others??
How can I get GC with all these things.

Folks, this is for your information. not for the argument.

just kidding. :)
How about stopping the disscussions which divides the community.

I can understand the frustration of long wait for GC. The fight is for immigrant and non immigrant visas. Everyone(individuals like you and me), desi employers, desi MNCs, american companies wants to play by rules. The system is not fair. thats the reality.

Well, I thought OP had a good point. Do you support substitute LC?

Disclaimer: I'm not a beneficiary of a substituted labor certification.

GCisaDawg

rajuseattle
04-12-2009, 01:11 AM
I do agree with you, USCIS honors the old PD on the Labor, not the I-140 filing date.

Dont know the exact rule on the labor substitution cases, but i know for sure people who applied in 2007 with old sub labor PDs from 2000 and 2001 received their GCs. I would simply call them lucky as they found the Employers who took advantagfe of the sub labor rule and filed their petitions before the sunset date of July 16th 2007.

Lets hope USCIS do their job and approves only the genuine lab sub cases.

For rest of us who were the victims of backlog elimination centre and then the stupid July 2007 fiasco of making very EB category current, its just our bad luck, in backlog centre too DoL processed our apps out of order and now USCIS doing the same thing.

antihero
04-12-2009, 10:19 AM
Come to think of it, this idea has potential to fly. We can ask CIS to make the date of I-140 filing as the PD for substituted labor case. This will ensure that PD will move forward smoothly till July 07 at least. That will cover most of the long standing ( and long suffering) GC applicants and bring them relief. This will not have any other impact on the number of outstanding apps or available visa numbers etc. I guess this change in PD assignment logic can be done by CIS without the need of any new legislation.

The idea inherently appeals to those who believe in fair play. How do we take this forward.

I do agree with you, USCIS honors the old PD on the Labor, not the I-140 filing date.

Dont know the exact rule on the labor substitution cases, but i know for sure people who applied in 2007 with old sub labor PDs from 2000 and 2001 received their GCs. I would simply call them lucky as they found the Employers who took advantagfe of the sub labor rule and filed their petitions before the sunset date of July 16th 2007.

Lets hope USCIS do their job and approves only the genuine lab sub cases.

For rest of us who were the victims of backlog elimination centre and then the stupid July 2007 fiasco of making very EB category current, its just our bad luck, in backlog centre too DoL processed our apps out of order and now USCIS doing the same thing.

bigboy007
04-12-2009, 12:25 PM
Great discussions!! we are all going in different directions... How many Labor petitions few handful? There might be ppl who are stuck legitimately and ppl who did it , it was legal. Rather we should concentrate on Retrogression of VISA numbers. Then what after July 07 , think also about 140's there were pending there are a handful with earlier priority dates. Also many times USCIS issued GC's for ppl with earlier PD's should they return their GC back ? And potato eater has mentioned its not point to argument. I dont think there are those who are blocking the system. It is sheer number of VISA's that are driving nuts. There were also proposals that VISA numbers be applied only to principal applicants. Actions like these will have impact on final numbers.

And above all this idea is not new , It was even discussed by many members (in ~2006) when Substitution was abolished. But we are already here. We will campaign like Rajiv Khanna had said and then what discuss new proposal ? I feel its not that easy to do a change for existing ones in pipeline and USCIS has completely abolished this idea altogether.

Main action agenda: Legislation to get back unused numbers. I dont want IV to waste energy or resources anything beyond this and we shouldnt keep on discussions of new proposals. Our only point of discussion should be How to get legislative fix done.

Come to think of it, this idea has potential to fly. We can ask CIS to make the date of I-140 filing as the PD for substituted labor case. This will ensure that PD will move forward smoothly till July 07 at least. That will cover most of the long standing ( and long suffering) GC applicants and bring them relief. This will not have any other impact on the number of outstanding apps or available visa numbers etc. I guess this change in PD assignment logic can be done by CIS without the need of any new legislation.

The idea inherently appeals to those who believe in fair play. How do we take this forward.

supernova
04-12-2009, 12:48 PM
I've seen dozens of people exploiting sub-labor and got their gc's. There are thousand's of them jumped the queue for last time in July '07. I do agree with the person who started this thread.

There isn't anything we can do about it now. Let's concentrate on what we can do.

gonecrazyonh4
04-12-2009, 01:18 PM
I read that he is here since 2007 and card production has been ordered, we are here since 2000 on H1B with no end in sight. Really painful

hebbar77
04-12-2009, 01:31 PM
I read that he is here since 2007 and card production has been ordered, we are here since 2000 on H1B with no end in sight. Really painful

If anyone gets year 1800's labour legally through their employer I would not find it problamatic. If someone gets it illegally by paying money or something I would call it wrong.
Most people who escaped the common class were smart to identify the undefined territories of the law. So legal fine, ILLEGAL wrong.
If I did not get the benefits I would be jealous, obviously.

bigboy007
04-12-2009, 01:50 PM
Thats true, In every system there would be some kind of exploitation and looking at that USCIS banned this. But there are many more ppl have done..

Many came on L1 and got GC Quickly... Many Port EB3 to EB2 and got Quickly... Many got Quickly due to error on USCIS part... Many find them-self in EB2 due to Work exp etc some say only Masters should qualify for EB2... and obviously get GC Quickly... Some Got 140 Premium and got GC Quickly... Now ppl cant file 485 and get benefits until date becomes current and 140 approved... List continues...

Some are legitimate and some are not , It all matters in how you see it and how USCIS sees it.

If anyone gets year 1800's labour legally through their employer I would not find it problamatic. If someone gets it illegally by paying money or something I would call it wrong.
Most people who escaped the common class were smart to identify the undefined territories of the law. So legal fine, ILLEGAL wrong.
If I did not get the benefits I would be jealous, obviously.

a2006
04-12-2009, 01:59 PM
USCIS do have some checks and balances for the subst labor cases, so its not a staright approvals for the lab subst cases. their might be a possibility few lucky ones get off the hook, but overall USCIS can weed out the dubious/fraudulent employer petitions.

Sub labor is not the only reason guys, its just the country cap which is limiting india EB-3 and EB-2. Most of the H1Bs like us coming to us ends up applying for GC, now look at the number of H1Bs coming each year from india and the total number of GCs available for india. Their is a huge gap in these numbers, so unless they remove the country cap or recaptured unused VISA numbers from the past years, we dont see any relief.

Please donate to IV and help lobbying for the admin fixes or the laws which going to help us in the long run.
True, and from 2000 to 2003, the h1b quota was increased to 195,000 to accommodate the IT boom. All the petitions that got stuck in BEC's and name checks have to come out at some point. These number gets multiplied by at least 2 because of the dependent visas. So with limited visa numbers and country quota we are stuck unless some relief happens!!!
There is no point in trying to blame somebody for these issues.

seahawks
04-12-2009, 02:05 PM
We all understand the EB immigration system currently as is needs to be fixed. We need to recognize this problem first. What I don't understand is most of the people I talk to about issues do not recognize the problem or are willing to accept it as is. They don't seem to be motivated in supporting IV from volunteering or providing financial support. If you look at this forum, take the amount of people who are registered and the amount of people who actually bring tangible value to this organization. What is in those few that we don't have? Let us all recognize that there is a problem first and lets think about ways to mobilize and spend energy in one direction set by IV.

Yes, we may not agree with every solution, but let us focus and believe that something will happen, if we all try together!

hebbar77
04-12-2009, 05:35 PM
what do you mean by supporting IV?

If you are talking about financial donations below model works best for me.

lets say IV core comes up with COST of doing X,Y, Z fixes within XX weeks.
COST is shared among wishing to donate. This becomes like a product purchase.

Current model is not time bound nor result oriented.

Again I am not anti-IV or anything. I am just expressing my idea!

number30
04-12-2009, 07:27 PM
I believe as per the current rules CIS routinely assigns the PD of the substitute labor as the PD of the replacement worker.

What Rajiv Khanna says is very fair, but unfortunately CIS is not run by Khanna. In any case, can you please post the link to the aforementioned blog.

This can be best issue to sue USCIS. Good People will get benefit from this

Pineapple
04-12-2009, 07:37 PM
Well, hebbar, I hope for your own sake you don't run a business! :)

In your "business model", the costs are shared by a few, but the benefits are free for everyone. (Ever think about that? D'oh!! What do you think is going to happen if any fixes are implemented? USCIS is going to say "only those who donate to IV can get 2 year AP, recaptured visa numbers etc??)
The donors know this, but still shell out the money. Perhaps you should appreciate that before coming up with such brilliant business ideas. :D

what do you mean by supporting IV?

If you are talking about financial donations below model works best for me.

lets say IV core comes up with COST of doing X,Y, Z fixes within XX weeks.
COST is shared among wishing to donate. This becomes like a product purchase.

Current model is not time bound nor result oriented.

Again I am not anti-IV or anything. I am just expressing my idea!

bigboy007
04-12-2009, 08:11 PM
Dude, This is not a project with expected Go-live date... We are investing for ourself. Do you think any law firm or org in this country can do that... If so we will be in different shape.

I support what seahawk mentioned, in last 1 year i requested all my friends, relatives to join or support IV. I see only limited number doing that... but when issues come up they need a solution. But i will keep on trying... Its a sad reality.



what do you mean by supporting IV?

If you are talking about financial donations below model works best for me.

lets say IV core comes up with COST of doing X,Y, Z fixes within XX weeks.
COST is shared among wishing to donate. This becomes like a product purchase.

Current model is not time bound nor result oriented.

Again I am not anti-IV or anything. I am just expressing my idea!

bigboy007
04-12-2009, 08:15 PM
Per my knowledge, There is no RULE that USCIS has to assign priority date of 140 to subs case , instead its original LC date... I found on Fragomen website too...

Here is the link ..
http://pubweb.fdbl.com/news1.nsf/9abe5d703b986cff86256e310080943a/9eb0c12efa4303ae852571110078439e?OpenDocument

This can be best issue to sue USCIS. Good People will get benefit from this

seahawks
04-12-2009, 08:58 PM
what do you mean by supporting IV?

If you are talking about financial donations below model works best for me.

lets say IV core comes up with COST of doing X,Y, Z fixes within XX weeks.
COST is shared among wishing to donate. This becomes like a product purchase.

Current model is not time bound nor result oriented.

Again I am not anti-IV or anything. I am just expressing my idea!

Unfortunately the system does not work that way. Let me ask you this. If you believed in being result oriented and time bound and made an investment to file your green card, when do you think the investment will pay off? Some things money can't buy, it takes tonnes and tonnes of energy to make a change. Believe in this organization and invest your time in helping this organization.

Actively participate in all action items, mobilize your community, your state chapters. Spread awareness and build a sense of cohesiveness. Consider everyone here part of a family and remember everyone who works tirelessly work for all of us, not just them. Find out if there is anyway you can help, there are so many opportunities where IV needs all of us. Stand up, get up and move..

Yes, after all the hard work there are things that may not work, but if we don't try, the system will not fix itself.

chanduv23
04-13-2009, 12:40 AM
Unfortunately the system does not work that way. Let me ask you this. If you believed in being result oriented and time bound and made an investment to file your green card, when do you think the investment will pay off? Some things money can't buy, it takes tonnes and tonnes of energy to make a change. Believe in this organization and invest your time in helping this organization.

Actively participate in all action items, mobilize your community, your state chapters. Spread awareness and build a sense of cohesiveness. Consider everyone here part of a family and remember everyone who works tirelessly work for all of us, not just them. Find out if there is anyway you can help, there are so many opportunities where IV needs all of us. Stand up, get up and move..

Yes, after all the hard work there are things that may not work, but if we don't try, the system will not fix itself.


I tried saying the same thing in all my posts. But people are just not willing to organize themselves to help themselves. Everyone wants the issue to be fixxed, but no one wants to come forward.

Everyone asks about IVs agenda. IVs agenda is clear - "IV has given you a platform, so help yourself". If people are willing to take up a cause - IV will support. But our people do not want it. People want to discuss, crib and cry and blame IV and fight.

enthu999
04-13-2009, 03:33 AM
Hi

We don't want to create more divisions based on how they got in to queue for GC. As a matter of fact, my company filed I-140 based on a old labor, where the skills were matching exactly and the previous person left the company. The company that I work in has 8500 employees, I was not even aware that they filed premium for I-140. I did not have to pay dime for all the process.

Pls remember filing substitution labor was legal back then.

However, USCIS removed this provision in 2007 and the discussion ends there.

When you compare all other issues that are the root causes for the retrogression, we are spending the time and energy on some thing that would not help any one.

Thanks,

number30
04-13-2009, 07:32 AM
Hi

We don't want to create more divisions based on how they got in to queue for GC. As a matter of fact, my company filed I-140 based on a old labor, where the skills were matching exactly and the previous person left the company. The company that I work in has 8500 employees, I was not even aware that they filed premium for I-140. I did not have to pay dime for all the process.

Pls remember filing substitution labor was legal back then.

However, USCIS removed this provision in 2007 and the discussion ends there.

When you compare all other issues that are the root causes for the retrogression, we are spending the time and energy on some thing that would not help any one.

Thanks,

Yes It is legal. People are having issue only with hijacking the Priority dates. That can be questioned in the court. Original policy was to assign the date of I-140 filing was the Priority date . There are memos with that policy. But when and how it got changed no one knows.
So that is best candidate for suing USCIS and get the green card faster.

gc_check
04-13-2009, 09:46 AM
Sad, but true, the substitution labor are utilizing the visa numbers a lot.. Not sure if any thing can be done @ this time.... There were lots of new people filed I-140/I-485 utilizing substitution labor in July / Aug 07 as the LC substitution was sunset after wards... Though it is legal :confused: they could have made the PD, they day I-140 was filed, since they allow to retain original PD, now people who really waited are forced to wait even longer.... Now that the program is sunset and also many people already jumped the line, do not see any advantage in complaining about it and expect no administrative reaction to this as labor sub no longer exist... Only solution to retro... is unused visa recapture / increase visa number / exclude dependent / etc... none of these can happen without intervention from congress.... which required very intense lobbying... which in turn requires $$$$ ... and more participation and contribution from the members seems to be the only option that could help all... If you don't help yourself.. no one would !!!

crazydesi
04-13-2009, 02:33 PM
I know lot of my friends still waiting for GC since last 7/8/9 years. As you can see MY PD is Oct 2001 and I got my approval email last week.

So dont think that everyone who is getting approved with old PD has bought a Sub labor.

People are waiting patiently for the queue to get clear and wait for their turn.

gc28262
04-13-2009, 02:56 PM
Sad, but true, the substitution labor are utilizing the visa numbers a lot.. Not sure if any thing can be done @ this time.... There were lots of new people filed I-140/I-485 utilizing substitution labor in July / Aug 07 as the LC substitution was sunset after wards... Though it is legal :confused: they could have made the PD, they day I-140 was filed, since they allow to retain original PD, now people who really waited are forced to wait even longer.... Now that the program is sunset and also many people already jumped the line, do not see any advantage in complaining about it and expect no administrative reaction to this as labor sub no longer exist... Only solution to retro... is unused visa recapture / increase visa number / exclude dependent / etc... none of these can happen without intervention from congress.... which required very intense lobbying... which in turn requires $$$$ ... and more participation and contribution from the members seems to be the only option that could help all... If you don't help yourself.. no one would !!!

Do you or anyone who thinks that backlogs are due to labor substitution have any proof to claim so ?

Even if there were some, they definitely won't be in large numbers. First of all to use a sub labor, one labor had to become available. Do you think there were so many labors floating around to grab one ? I don't think so.

How come EB3 ROW went "U" if all the backlog was due to labor subs ?

addsf345
04-13-2009, 03:17 PM
USCIS do have some checks and balances for the subst labor cases, so its not a staright approvals for the lab subst cases. their might be a possibility few lucky ones get off the hook, but overall USCIS can weed out the dubious/fraudulent employer petitions.

Sub labor is not the only reason guys, its just the country cap which is limiting india EB-3 and EB-2. Most of the H1Bs like us coming to us ends up applying for GC, now look at the number of H1Bs coming each year from india and the total number of GCs available for india. Their is a huge gap in these numbers, so unless they remove the country cap or recaptured unused VISA numbers from the past years, we dont see any relief.

Please donate to IV and help lobbying for the admin fixes or the laws which going to help us in the long run.

I am no expert but here is what I think.

by concentrating energy on spilled over milk, why not work towards recapturing unused visa numbers? It has been done in past successfully. It is in huge numbers, guess around 300-400K or so.

while wasting energy on 2-3K or may be 5K lc sub cases will do no good for everyone. visa recapture will solve problems for most of the community.

take your pick. its no brainer!!!

LC Sub is long gone. Those who *legally* got pre-2001 may already have gc by now, and its not going to affect them anyway.

Think in a professional manner and do what provides the most benefit.

hebbar77
04-13-2009, 03:29 PM
I am no expert but here is what I think.

by concentrating energy on spilled over milk, why not work towards recapturing unused visa numbers? It has been done in past successfully. It is in huge numbers, guess around 300-400K or so.

while wasting energy on 2-3K or may be 5K lc sub cases will do no good for everyone. visa recapture will solve problems for most of the community.

take your pick. its no brainer!!!

LC Sub is long gone. Those who *legally* got pre-2001 may already have gc by now, and its not going to affect them anyway.

Think in a professional manner and do what provides the most benefit.

ok , agreed. Can pappu get it done within certain time. How much does it cost?
Lets share the bill. Straight to business!

kondur_007
04-13-2009, 05:07 PM
As I posted on another thread, I do not believe that all those old approvals are due to sub labor.
A large part is related to FBI name check; remember, they just cleared a lot of name check cases...Not necessarily a bad thing, but we always feared as to how big is that number and it is still early to see the full impact of "clearing of that backlog>"

dallasdude
04-13-2009, 07:14 PM
This ain't nothing. Wait until the second wave of labor substituted EB3 applicants port their case from EB3 to EB2 or EB1 .Talk about a double whammy. Except a bigger hit in the next year or two when most of the porting succeeds.

ilikekilo
04-13-2009, 09:27 PM
This is the sad reality. A lot of people applied using sub labor during the June and July fiasco. A lot of people made it through the July 15th deadline by atleast filing a 140 through sub labor.
Now USCIS is processing all these 140s and as they have old dates, they are becoming approvable.
As long as there are visas with old dates approvable - USICS will exhaust them. As long as USCIS exhausts old visas, DOS need not move the dates forward.


RIght, bygones are bygones, we have to move on...no point in sulking about it..:)...cant change it now..move ahead..thats all...;)

Nil
04-13-2009, 09:44 PM
It is good to analyze. But pls let us be together.
There are several who's category was determined by the employer and their lawyer and an equal number, who have no clue as to what is actually the content of their labor. Myself for example, was never allowed a glimpse of the labor application, only know that it was approved. i also do not have a hard copy of my I140.
The positive point is this year, major channels are talking about Legal immigration much more than i have heard before.
let us work together to highlight the broken system, the only way it can eventually get fixed by our direct efforts.

gcisadawg
04-13-2009, 11:06 PM
This ain't nothing. Wait until the second wave of labor substituted EB3 applicants port their case from EB3 to EB2 or EB1 .Talk about a double whammy. Except a bigger hit in the next year or two when most of the porting succeeds.

Labor substitution may be legal but it is unethical. When everything depends on when you join the queue, how can one cut the line?

Whereas EB3 to EB2 porting is both legal and ethical. When you have a EB3 applicant that is waiting in line for 8 years, he/she had already gathered that much experience based on his long wait. Also, if you look at EB2, it is one of the highly abused category. The EB3 applicant who started in 2001 has joined the line half a decade before the one with 2006 Eb2 PD. One can't really accuse him/her for cutting the line just like one can about substitutes! If the EB3 porting case deserves merit, then I strongly support it!

My intention is not to to start a fight. But we need to see the true picture. Without acknowledging the problem how can we fix it?
Bottom line, GC abuses need to stop and we should fight for it as much as we fight for our rights to get GC!

gc_check
04-13-2009, 11:38 PM
Do you or anyone who thinks that backlogs are due to labor substitution have any proof to claim so ?
Even if there were some, they definitely won't be in large numbers. First of all to use a sub labor, one labor had to become available. Do you think there were so many labors floating around to grab one ? I don't think so.
How come EB3 ROW went "U" if all the backlog was due to labor subs ?

Well, There are many people still waiting for GC with original labor and not substitute labor with PD 2003 or prior to that. I'm not saying Sub Labor is the only reason, but it is one of the reason. Even though they are few...the impact is big... With 7% per country limit and visa numbers looks like would not spill over to EB3 due to demand in EB2 and other categories, even very few (say 3000 - 6000 labor sub applications) could consume a year or 2 years worth of visa numbers for this category for retro countries.... Even each family member (dependent) would consume a visa... with atleat 2 visa per applicant, 3000 - 5000 total EB3 labor sub could easily consume 2 years quote... if you count all.. then the "U" in VB might make sense... For EB3 ROW, there are lotz of people from Canada, S. Korea, Thailand, Australia, UK etc, and it went 'U' from 2003... The dates could move well for ROW... but for retrogressed country, I do not see the bright side yet.... Also the 485 PD was current for all categories almost all of 2003 & 2004 till Dec 31 2004, It retrogressed starting from Jan 2005 and later.... Also, the total 140,000 is for all EB categories. The 3000 - 5000 is just a conservative realistic guess.. not based on any data. Do the Math !!! You might agree !!!

gc28262
04-14-2009, 12:59 AM
Well, There are many people still waiting for GC with original labor and not substitute labor with PD 2003 or prior to that. I'm not saying Sub Labor is the only reason, but it is one of the reason. Even though they are few...the impact is big... With 7% per country limit and visa numbers looks like would not spill over to EB3 due to demand in EB2 and other categories, even very few (say 3000 - 6000 labor sub applications) could consume a year or 2 years worth of visa numbers for this category for retro countries.... Even each family member (dependent) would consume a visa... with atleat 2 visa per applicant, 3000 - 5000 total EB3 labor sub could easily consume 2 years quote... if you count all.. then the "U" in VB might make sense... For EB3 ROW, there are lotz of people from Canada, S. Korea, Thailand, Australia, UK etc, and it went 'U' from 2003... The dates could move well for ROW... but for retrogressed country, I do not see the bright side yet.... Also the 485 PD was current for all categories almost all of 2003 & 2004 till Dec 31 2004, It retrogressed starting from Jan 2005 and later.... Also, the total 140,000 is for all EB categories. The 3000 - 5000 is just a conservative realistic guess.. not based on any data. Do the Math !!! You might agree !!!

Even if you assume there are 3000-5000 labor subs that chocks up the queue, it might have benefited the ones with a 2003 PD like yourself. But for others (beyond 2003) , it is not much of a help. A visa recapture would benefit the community at large.

Even if you consider 3000-5000 labor subs, not many of those are "sold" labors, many of them are legal ones. labor subs were all legal until some companies started selling those.

gcisadawg
04-14-2009, 01:43 AM
Labor substitution may be legal but it is unethical. When everything depends on when you join the queue, how can one cut the line?

Whereas EB3 to EB2 porting is both legal and ethical. When you have a EB3 applicant that is waiting in line for 8 years, he/she had already gathered that much experience based on his long wait. Also, if you look at EB2, it is one of the highly abused category. The EB3 applicant who started in 2001 has joined the line half a decade before the one with 2006 Eb2 PD. One can't really accuse him/her for cutting the line just like one can about substitutes! If the EB3 porting case deserves merit, then I strongly support it!

My intention is not to to start a fight. But we need to see the true picture. Without acknowledging the problem how can we fix it?
Bottom line, GC abuses need to stop and we should fight for it as much as we fight for our rights to get GC!

As expected,I got a red dot on my post. And as usual, it was anonymous!
Pls. come out in open to share your views!

bigboy007
04-14-2009, 03:12 AM
My friend, Who said its not a problem? in my earlier post I have provided a big laundry list of Line cutting measures in place are these not problems? BUT the point is , is it worth it a fight ? Subs is long gone, We are fighting for Country quota from a year + atleast and we are still at one and the problems keep worsens. We all worry about subs where there is no action. There is no fixing to this right now its a dead horse. Problem is VISA Numbers in XYZ,000's. Lets recapture them...

Why do you think it is unethical, I was stuck in Labor My comp gave me one option use either subs or dont ask us... In fact I even dont have exact copies of my subs thats hidden from me. So for me is that Unethical? For me a person who qualifies for EB2 and applies now is a line cutter due to the fact that EB2 Q is better than EB3 and they are getting green card faster. Law allows them to do that. is it not jealous to me ? The list grows...

Labor substitution may be legal but it is unethical. When everything depends on when you join the queue, how can one cut the line?

Whereas EB3 to EB2 porting is both legal and ethical. When you have a EB3 applicant that is waiting in line for 8 years, he/she had already gathered that much experience based on his long wait. Also, if you look at EB2, it is one of the highly abused category. The EB3 applicant who started in 2001 has joined the line half a decade before the one with 2006 Eb2 PD. One can't really accuse him/her for cutting the line just like one can about substitutes! If the EB3 porting case deserves merit, then I strongly support it!

My intention is not to to start a fight. But we need to see the true picture. Without acknowledging the problem how can we fix it?
Bottom line, GC abuses need to stop and we should fight for it as much as we fight for our rights to get GC!

gc_check
04-14-2009, 09:11 AM
Even if you assume there are 3000-5000 labor subs that chocks up the queue, it might have benefited the ones with a 2003 PD like yourself. But for others (beyond 2003) , it is not much of a help. A visa recapture would benefit the community at large.

Even if you consider 3000-5000 labor subs, not many of those are "sold" labors, many of them are legal ones. labor subs were all legal until some companies started selling those.

Hi.. I'm not discussing whether labor subs is legal or not. Prior to July 2007, the law & regulations allowed to utilize the labor cert, that was certified for a Alien with a diff Alien, provided skill, edu... etc matches. Though it is legal, the amount of mis-use led to sunset of the program after many many years of existence.

My argument is that Labor Sub, does impact PD movement significantly, Also most people I know with PD prior to 2002 , except very few unlucky ones most got their GC. Also in July 07 rush, many who had already filed 485 with PD 2003 and early 2004 also got approved.
I know there were lots of approvals from Backlog Elimination center, but unless you work for a very good company, I doubt you will still be stuck with the employer from 2000 just for the sake of GC. When the dates were current, many moved to other companies, If you were here in US during late 2000 and 2001, that was not nice year for IT / Tech. Now where did all these old PD's pop from. Definitely sub has a big role to play. As I said in my earlier post, nothing can be done abt. this.

Visa recapture and visa increase seems to be the only option that might help.... and most member now know what it takes to get there... $$$$ and more $$$$$ to lobby, etc...

antihero
04-14-2009, 12:27 PM
..... Now where did all these old PD's pop from. Definitely sub has a big role to play. As I said in my earlier post, nothing can be done abt. this.
....


You are right that PD of the substute labors are clogging the lines. But something can certainly be done. We can ask CIS to assign the date of filing of I-140 as the PD for substitute case. This is not same as revoking all substituted labors. This is simply rearranging the serial numbers in the queue. And this does not require any law from the lawmakers. So this should be low hanging fruit.

dallasdude
04-14-2009, 01:59 PM
My friend, Who said its not a problem? in my earlier post I have provided a big laundry list of Line cutting measures in place are these not problems? BUT the point is , is it worth it a fight ? Subs is long gone, We are fighting for Country quota from a year + atleast and we are still at one and the problems keep worsens. We all worry about subs where there is no action. There is no fixing to this right now its a dead horse. Problem is VISA Numbers in XYZ,000's. Lets recapture them...

Why do you think it is unethical, I was stuck in Labor My comp gave me one option use either subs or dont ask us... In fact I even dont have exact copies of my subs thats hidden from me. So for me is that Unethical? For me a person who qualifies for EB2 and applies now is a line cutter due to the fact that EB2 Q is better than EB3 and they are getting green card faster. Law allows them to do that. is it not jealous to me ? The list grows...

You are an exception of course. But there are so many unethical and undeserving folks that abused this rule and have made things miserable for many of us.

ganguteli
04-14-2009, 02:10 PM
Where were all you guys 2 years ago or before?

Why did you not oppose then?
I guess you yourself were busy finding a sub-labor. Now that you could not get one, you are saying sour grapes.

BTW I do not have a sub labor

McLuvin
04-14-2009, 02:18 PM
Guys, by all means this discussion is itself is like find no mans land.

I think we should unite among ourselves rather than talking about all these circumstances. Yes I agree with Ganguteli... People got their labor subsituted because they had a oppurtunity and a provision that was legally correct. Instead of sitting and cribbing lets look in a direction which is going to unite all these streams into a big force.

Com'on guys, stop looking at things from a closed prespective. We need to be open and look at a grand agenda.

Unity is strength

minimalist
04-14-2009, 03:00 PM
The labor substitution was meant to have the employer not lose his place in the queue. However people started abusing it and that was closed.
So if any, please focus your energy on recapture.

Well, you can find many similar questions in life.

Labor substitution may be legal but it is unethical. When everything depends on when you join the queue, how can one cut the line?

Marphad
04-14-2009, 03:30 PM
As many are aware, there was a huge rush to buy and sell pre-approved labors during July-August 2007, when all the priority dates were suddenly made current. Tens of thousands of labors were sold by fraudulent consulting companies to many questionable GC seekers, who hadnít even started the process till then.

It is those substituted labors which are clogging the pipelines now. Just think, last month EB3-I stood at November 2001. Now it is completely unavailable. It canít possibly be because so many pending labors with such old priority dates suddenly got cleared this month, and beneficiary of these labors filed 140+485 together. I seriously doubt that a candidate whose labor is pending since such a long time is even keeping that GC process alive. In all likelihood he/she must have moved on in life.

There is only one explanation. These labors were already pre-approved. It is the attached I-140 on these labors that are getting approved rapidly. And the subsequent I-485 petitions on these applications are depleting the visa numbers.

The reason of this post is not to start an argument about the ethics of labor substitution. It is just a FYI post to explain the seemingly inexplicable. The chickens are coming home to roost.

Not completely agreed. Same as people filed in EB2 - no more qualified just better luck that their employers agreed and job description fit with EB2. Unlucky people like me got into EB3. I say EB2 are clogging....

This will take us to nowhere. Lets concentrate on something positive like recapture.

sameet
04-14-2009, 04:13 PM
The labor substitution was meant to have the employer not lose his place in the queue. However people started abusing it and that was closed.
So if any, please focus your energy on recapture.

Well, you can find many similar questions in life.

I agree that properly user Labor substitution is not a wrong thing to do. My employer had an approved labor and the guy had left so he used it for me since it is the same position skills etc. By the way, I have been in the US since 2000 and had not applied till 2005. So it is a valid thing to do if not abused. As to those cases where they paid money to get the labor sub done, I agree it is unethical.

snathan
04-14-2009, 05:18 PM
Guys...stop this fighting. There are so many issues which we are not able to fix bcoz we donít have enough resources/volunteers. So please join the donor forum and help us. If you are really serious do that. All the time we are blaming IV is not doing enough. Now we have lot to do but donít have enough resources. Please come forward and help.

rajuseattle
04-14-2009, 10:02 PM
snathan,

Here is something i found on the web for the interpretation of labor sub cases, the original PD stays with original beneficiary, but when the labor certification is used for another beneficiary then USCIS should allocate the new I-140 filing date as PD, not the original LC date.

Following link suggest that labor substitution should not grant PDs.

http://www.greencardapply.com/news/news05/news05_0308.htm

Can IV bring up this issue with USCIS contacts and see whats their interpretation of this rule?

You wont belive but the labor sub was a big mess and thanks god both USCIS and DoL realised this rule being abused and scrap it, but i am pretty sure the sub labor filed in July 2007 fiasco is clogging india EB-3 PD and it will remain at that level for next 2-3 yrs.

bigboy007
04-15-2009, 12:21 AM
This is the only link that spots to this I have seen this earlier Not sure how reliable this is ? What is the need of any sublabor demand ( per direction of this thread?) if they just retain 140 date ? There would no need in first place for any one to use it .

Here is what i found on USCIS website Posted after 7/2007.. btw this is quoted in Labor sub case.

"The petitioner must establish that its ETA 750 job offer to the beneficiary is a realistic one. A petitioner's filing of an ETA 750 labor certification application establishes a priority date for any immigrant petition later filed based on the approved ETA 750. The priority date is the date that Form ETA 750 Application for Alien Employment Certification was accepted for processing by any office within the employment service system of the Department of Labor. See 8 CFR 5 204.5(d)."

http://www.uscis.gov/err/B6%20-%20Skilled%20Workers,%20Professionals,%20and%20Oth er%20Workers/Decisions_Issued_in_2007/Jul262007_10B6203.pdf

snathan,

Here is something i found on the web for the interpretation of labor sub cases, the original PD stays with original beneficiary, but when the labor certification is used for another beneficiary then USCIS should allocate the new I-140 filing date as PD, not the original LC date.

Following link suggest that labor substitution should not grant PDs.

http://www.greencardapply.com/news/news05/news05_0308.htm

Can IV bring up this issue with USCIS contacts and see whats their interpretation of this rule?

You wont belive but the labor sub was a big mess and thanks god both USCIS and DoL realised this rule being abused and scrap it, but i am pretty sure the sub labor filed in July 2007 fiasco is clogging india EB-3 PD and it will remain at that level for next 2-3 yrs.

antihero
04-15-2009, 01:21 AM
What is the need of any sublabor demand ( per direction of this thread?) if they just retain 140 date ? There would no need in first place for any one to use it.


The intent of a subst labor was to save the company time and money for obtaining another labor for the same position in case the original beneficiary drops out. Remember, labor was a company petition, not employee petition. The companies still would have wanted it even if it does not retain its original PD.

The basic thrust behind the idea of changing the rules of PD allocation for subst cases is to push forward PD to july 07 level. Most of the subst happened in that month. we are not asking subst labor folks to quit the queue, just asking them to move behind.

potatoeater
05-10-2009, 03:08 PM
I am reviving this old thread because it was created by me, and it is highly relevant now. I predicted last month that EB2-I will become "U" soon, and it has happened (almost).

The quick way out of this mess is to ask CIS to move subst labor folks back in the queue. That will ensure that both EB3-I and EB2-I will move forward to July 07. Most of the labor substitution took place in that month itself.

This is an admin fix and does not require any new legislature. This is an idea whose time has come.

The intent of a subst labor was to save the company time and money for obtaining another labor for the same position in case the original beneficiary drops out. Remember, labor was a company petition, not employee petition. The companies still would have wanted it even if it does not retain its original PD.

The basic thrust behind the idea of changing the rules of PD allocation for subst cases is to push forward PD to july 07 level. Most of the subst happened in that month. we are not asking subst labor folks to quit the queue, just asking them to move behind.

krupa
05-10-2009, 04:22 PM
Immigration Voice should take up this issue with USCIS. Those who came to US after 2007 should get PD of the date they applied for transfer of Labor OR applied for 140. Other wise it is abuse of law.

I am reviving this old thread because it was created by me, and it is highly relevant now. I predicted last month that EB2-I will become "U" soon, and it has happened (almost).

The quick way out of this mess is to ask CIS to move subst labor folks back in the queue. That will ensure that both EB3-I and EB2-I will move forward to July 07. Most of the labor substitution took place in that month itself.

This is an admin fix and does not require any new legislature. This is an idea whose time has come.

kshitijnt
05-10-2009, 04:52 PM
Dont shoot in the dark without knowing the facts.

ras
05-10-2009, 05:18 PM
Here comes this potatoeater asking for another division based on substitution labor folks and non-substitution folks.

Green.Tech
05-10-2009, 05:29 PM
Folks, which part of staying united aren't we understanding? What is the point in reviving old issues? BTW, I do not have a substituted labor or haven't ported from EB-3 to EB-2. As long as we keep these divisive issues at the forefront, it will be tough for us to rise as one 'united' force to tackle the 'real' issues that the highly skilled community is facing. Let's focus on IV's agenda and that will help us to achieve what we all are aiming for - a GC. Shun issues that will help 'me', rather focus on issues that will help 'us'.

zram1977
05-10-2009, 06:10 PM
Immigration Voice should take up this issue with USCIS. Those who came to US after 2007 should get PD of the date they applied for transfer of Labor OR applied for 140. Other wise it is abuse of law.
Well Said...
Is there any agenda from IV core on this issue.

Pallavi79
05-10-2009, 08:39 PM
<potatoeater quote>
I predicted last month that EB2-I will become "U" soon, and it has happened (almost).
</quote>
Congratulations. You have done a great job. The dos is not able to predict the future dates of bulletins. You are able to predict it. Can you give some guidence for next couple of years? That will be lot helpful to immigration community.


<krupa quote>
Immigration Voice should take up this issue with USCIS. Those who came to US after 2007 should get PD of the date they applied for transfer of Labor OR applied for 140. Other wise it is abuse of law.
</quote>
Those who came after 2005 and who got green cards should be revoked and assign pds so that who came earliar should get green card first.


<zram1977 quote>
Well Said...
Is there any agenda from IV core on this issue.
</quote>
Is there any agenda from IV core on the issue of, " I Pallavi, should get visa" :))

Guys. Immigration reforms are going on. participate on those instead of digging something happened while ago.

potatoeater
05-10-2009, 10:54 PM
I just want to generate enough internet chatter so that the issue of substitute labor will come on CIS radar. I know for sure that a huge fraud was perpetrated during July 07 fiasco by some unscrupulous consulting companies who sold pre-approvevd labors like frozen pizzas. Just heat and eat.

And I also know for sure that IV has gained enough publicity that CIS folks might be tempted to check it now and then. May be they will take notice of this thread and start investigation of all the subst labors.

I surely am pissed as hell on somebody who came to this country in 2007, and got his/her GC by paying money for some 1999 pre approved labor. I will fight on.

morchu
05-10-2009, 11:00 PM
Didn't this already addressed by law? Substitute labor is a "stopped" deal. Whatever left is the "que" is old mess, which will be cleared out eventually. Is there a better suggestion you have to clean the old mess?

poorslumdog
05-10-2009, 11:34 PM
I just want to generate enough internet chatter so that the issue of substitute labor will come on CIS radar. I know for sure that a huge fraud was perpetrated during July 07 fiasco by some unscrupulous consulting companies who sold pre-approvevd labors like frozen pizzas. Just heat and eat.

And I also know for sure that IV has gained enough publicity that CIS folks might be tempted to check it now and then. May be they will take notice of this thread and start investigation of all the subst labors.

I surely am pissed as hell on somebody who came to this country in 2007, and got his/her GC by paying money for some 1999 pre approved labor. I will fight on.

This is only creating divison and nothing else.

webm
05-10-2009, 11:56 PM
This is only creating divison and nothing else.

yes u are right..

pls let's not create another division here and raise voice for admin fixes..

ras
05-10-2009, 11:56 PM
I just want to generate enough internet chatter so that the issue of substitute labor will come on CIS radar. I know for sure that a huge fraud was perpetrated during July 07 fiasco by some unscrupulous consulting companies who sold pre-approvevd labors like frozen pizzas. Just heat and eat.

And I also know for sure that IV has gained enough publicity that CIS folks might be tempted to check it now and then. May be they will take notice of this thread and start investigation of all the subst labors.

I surely am pissed as hell on somebody who came to this country in 2007, and got his/her GC by paying money for some 1999 pre approved labor. I will fight on.

Before creating further rifts first fill in your profile and then blabber...

ras
05-11-2009, 12:00 AM
Before creating further rifts first fill in your profile and then blabber...

I think I am fulfilling the intentions of the OP of making this thread active. So let me stop doing this with this post. And I hope this would be the last one for this rift creating thread..

no more posts please...

Peace...

bigboy007
05-11-2009, 12:06 AM
Since the dates went back ppl wake up and say now I want to shoot this bird, not knowingly how many cases are there... A simple question to you, (I know the point this thread is raising is going no where becoz for years many ppl discussed this and at the last USCIS deciced to stop this forever which is indeed a good move).

Will all the ppl who came after ppl stuck in BEC (Labor) will go back the line ? will they relinquish ... A simple answer "NO" So why are we debating on items that doesnt exist?

IV for now has only one goal "recapture". There is no way USCIS can go back and change the dates who ever used Subs( I am not talking about FRAUD- FRAUD shouldnt exist period) as per law the dates should be ported.


The intent of a subst labor was to save the company time and money for obtaining another labor for the same position in case the original beneficiary drops out. Remember, labor was a company petition, not employee petition. The companies still would have wanted it even if it does not retain its original PD.

The basic thrust behind the idea of changing the rules of PD allocation for subst cases is to push forward PD to july 07 level. Most of the subst happened in that month. we are not asking subst labor folks to quit the queue, just asking them to move behind.

gc28262
05-11-2009, 12:12 AM
I just want to generate enough internet chatter so that the issue of substitute labor will come on CIS radar. I know for sure that a huge fraud was perpetrated during July 07 fiasco by some unscrupulous consulting companies who sold pre-approvevd labors like frozen pizzas. Just heat and eat.

And I also know for sure that IV has gained enough publicity that CIS folks might be tempted to check it now and then. May be they will take notice of this thread and start investigation of all the subst labors.

I surely am pissed as hell on somebody who came to this country in 2007, and got his/her GC by paying money for some 1999 pre approved labor. I will fight on.

Please complete your profile and then talk.

bigboy007
05-11-2009, 12:18 AM
When did you come to US my friend ? did you ever were in the posts and discussions that went through all the years reg SUBS ? Atleast search on internet you will see whether is idea is BRAND new or old enough ?

How can you think of USCIS going back to something that doesnt exist any more (Fraud is diff story) , Admin Fix is for something that is existing, and in hands of USCIS. per law ppl ported dates and it is valid at that time.. Per law ppl can still port dates from EB3 to EB2 or earlier dates in the same category. Admin Fix cant back date the LAW. Simple common sense. You can keep clogging ... Instead we can work on the same energy for Recap.

Are you going to followup with USCIS that It shouldnt let ppl port from EB3 to EB2? L1,L2 Getting quickly ? I dont want to waste my time on EB3 Vs EB2 Vs EB1 Vs L1 Vs L2.. Lets aim at one thing that helps all and its a jackpot that is achievable for us...

I am reviving this old thread because it was created by me, and it is highly relevant now. I predicted last month that EB2-I will become "U" soon, and it has happened (almost).

The quick way out of this mess is to ask CIS to move subst labor folks back in the queue. That will ensure that both EB3-I and EB2-I will move forward to July 07. Most of the labor substitution took place in that month itself.

This is an admin fix and does not require any new legislature. This is an idea whose time has come.

rongch60
05-11-2009, 04:44 AM
As gc_check explained, all EB2 with PD<2007/7 will get the green card 2 years earlier if this can be fixed. I do not understand why IV can not discuss it with USCIS.

krupa
05-11-2009, 05:54 AM
Those who came between 2000 and 2005 are not getting GC approved , because of some loop holes , those who came in 2007 are getting 485 approved. Is it not unjustince to people who applied earlier? This issue is not similar from EB3 to EB2 etc.
I hope IV will bring this to the notice of USCIS ASAP.


When did you come to US my friend ? did you ever were in the posts and discussions that went through all the years reg SUBS ? Atleast search on internet you will see whether is idea is BRAND new or old enough ?

How can you think of USCIS going back to something that doesnt exist any more (Fraud is diff story) , Admin Fix is for something that is existing, and in hands of USCIS. per law ppl ported dates and it is valid at that time.. Per law ppl can still port dates from EB3 to EB2 or earlier dates in the same category. Admin Fix cant back date the LAW. Simple common sense. You can keep clogging ... Instead we can work on the same energy for Recap.

Are you going to followup with USCIS that It shouldnt let ppl port from EB3 to EB2? L1,L2 Getting quickly ? I dont want to waste my time on EB3 Vs EB2 Vs EB1 Vs L1 Vs L2.. Lets aim at one thing that helps all and its a jackpot that is achievable for us...

bigboy007
05-11-2009, 12:06 PM
I am in the same boat as you are ... There is injustice everywhere? As explained, I feel unjustice becoz EB3 can port to EB2 , I feel unjustice becoz L1,L2 get it quickly .. list continues. FYI... I came well before most of you guys in queue. PPL who came after me got Labor very quickly and are ahead of me.. So is that not Injustice to me? Shouldnt USCIS be notified and Shouldnt IV followup on adminFix ? when ppl jump or port dates from EB3 to EB2 dates will no go beyond ( just with 3k numbers) shouldnt IV followup and do adminfix so that some set of ppl will stop discussing this issue ? We can keep discussing things that will never happen.

When USCIS stopped Labor SUBS it filed in federal register and many processes. As per Law it allowed to port dates as it does now between Eb3 to Eb2. how can they go back hich is non existing and change the dates just becoz some ppl feel injustice? look at practicality?


As i said just google it and you wil know whether USCIS alredy know about it. again why 2007 is that becoz you call could apply then? When USCIS did admin fix did it change the validity of existing EAD's or said will apply for new ones only?



Those who came between 2000 and 2005 are not getting GC approved , because of some loop holes , those who came in 2007 are getting 485 approved. Is it not unjustince to people who applied earlier? This issue is not similar from EB3 to EB2 etc.
I hope IV will bring this to the notice of USCIS ASAP.

bigboy007
05-11-2009, 12:11 PM
This is best at ppl things narrow minded , since you are EB2 you want to have this.. EB3 can port to EB2 then EB3 will never get spillovers.. and if you have latest PD you might get in to this issue... So prepare now for another admin fix. shouldnt we stop looking at bigger picture and start only on the smaller things like this ? Can you support with numbers how EB2 can get line cleared ? If that is true then there is no need of Recapture... becoz when EB2 goes current all numbers flow to EB3.

As gc_check explained, all EB2 with PD<2007/7 will get the green card 2 years earlier if this can be fixed. I do not understand why IV can not discuss it with USCIS.

addsf345
05-11-2009, 01:55 PM
Those who came between 2000 and 2005 are not getting GC approved , because of some loop holes , those who came in 2007 are getting 485 approved. Is it not unjustince to people who applied earlier? This issue is not similar from EB3 to EB2 etc.
I hope IV will bring this to the notice of USCIS ASAP.

The biggest injustice is unfair country quota (atleast without taking respective population of different countries in to account), think about it. Potato-eater eating so much potato, he doesn't have time to update his profile also. I hope we spend time and enegry for 'unused visa recapture' and 'end of discrimination based on country of birth i.e. retrogression' rather than fighting for such smaller issues out of mere jeolous. If you spend energy and efforts at right place, everyone will get benefit.

number30
05-11-2009, 02:28 PM
'end of discrimination based on country of birth i.e. .


You can call this also as jealous. There are too many people from the other countries will have to wait because not having people to mass migrate to US. Arguments can be made in way. So be sympathetic. Your issue may not an issue for me. Do not call it as jealous

What they are saying not jealous. According INA priority date in case substitution is the day I-140 is applied. Somehow the original labor date was assigned as priority date . This might be an error but is causing problems and Inconvenience and injustice to some innocent people. You can call it as jealousy. That is alright but they have an issue which they need to fight. However small number may be it can benefit these guys.
If you do not support them that is OK. The moment you start using the word jealous, anti-immigrant etc. it stops the discussion.

addsf345
05-11-2009, 02:43 PM
You can call this also as jealous. There are too many people from the other countries will have to wait because not having people to mass migrate to US. Arguments can be made in way. So be sympathetic. Your issue may not an issue for me. Do not call it as jealous

What they are saying not jealous. According INA priority date in case substitution is the day I-140 is applied. Somehow the original labor date was assigned as priority date . This might be an error but is causing problems and Inconvenience and injustice to some innocent people. You can call it as jealousy. That is alright but they have an issue which they need to fight. However small number may be it can benefit these guys.
If you do not support them that is OK. The moment you start using the word jealous, anti-immigrant etc. it stops the discussion.

I also looked around for subLC, could not get one and had the same state of mind. I was not willing to take risk for it, like leaving my current job etc. so I know first hand the exact state of mind.

regarding ur post: the point u r missing is the lcSUB was legal till middle of july 2007. It is not any more. At this point, it is like crying over something which is stopped 2 years back.

if you think from a balanced mind, that "visa recapture" and "end of discrimiation based on country of birth" can end woos to all of us.

As far as your argument for under representated countries, yes they do have visa lotterry and for your kind knowledge, india is not listed for this.

Lastly, would appreciate if you can update your profile and make some educated arguments.

McLuvin
05-11-2009, 02:49 PM
Folks, please stop this infighting and try to concentrate all your frustrations in a single direction.

This infighting is not going to take us anywere... If some anti-immigrant happens to read this thread... he would serious think about reducing his decibell levels... The reason being... he would easily be able to read that there is a big level of difference between us folks.

Lets not fight... Please for once lets act as grown ups.

BR

number30
05-11-2009, 03:03 PM
I also looked around for subLC, could not get one and had the same state of mind. I was not willing to take risk for it, like leaving my current job etc. so I know first hand the exact state of mind.

regarding ur post: the point u r missing is the lcSUB was legal till middle of july 2007. It is not any more. At this point, it is like crying over something which is stopped 2 years back.

if you think from a balanced mind, that "visa recapture" and "end of discrimiation based on country of birth" can end woos to all of us.

As far as your argument for under representated countries, yes they do have visa lotterry and for your kind knowledge, india is not listed for this.

Lastly, would appreciate if you can update your profile and make some educated arguments.

Yes it was stopped in 2007. But it still has its shadow. Back in India Did you leave in area where there was shortage of water? All I said is do not call them as jealous. They have valid grievances. If they want they can fight.
Profile is not needed for an educated guess. Any way I became a citizen last week.

number30
05-11-2009, 03:06 PM
If some anti-immigrant happens to read this thread... he would serious think about reducing his decibell levels.
BR

Do you think this community is so fragile? No need to be so insecure. There can be delay but you will get the green card

addsf345
05-11-2009, 03:20 PM
Yes it was stopped in 2007. But it still has its shadow. Back in India Did you leave in area where there was shortage of water? All I said is do not call them as jealous. They have valid grievances. If they want they can fight.
Profile is not needed for an educated guess. Any way I became a citizen last week.

from all your invalid and illogical posts, I fail to understand your real motive. Do you want us get divided and fight among ourselves? Hope not! With my limited understanding, what I realized in last 2 years is this: VISA RECAPTURE and RETROGRESSION aka discrimination based on country of birth are the biggest obstacles for those born in countries like India, china, Philippines and Mexico. (Do you want to say that it is okay to be descriminated for being born in one of those countries?) So it does make sense to address these 2 issues. If I have limited energy (read money & support for lobbying, campaign etc), I would spend it towards where it can benefit me most.

number30
05-11-2009, 03:30 PM
from all your invalid and illogical posts, I fail to understand your real motive. Do you want us get divided and fight among ourselves? Hope not! With my limited understanding, what I realized in last 2 years is this: VISA RECAPTURE and RETROGRESSION aka discrimination based on country of birth are the biggest obstacles for those born in countries like India, china, Philippines and Mexico. (Do you want to say that it is okay to be descriminated for being born in one of those countries?) So it does make sense to address these 2 issues. If I have limited energy (read money & support for lobbying, campaign etc), I would spend it towards where it can benefit me most.

What I am saying is just do not look into the issues that affects only you. Just be open minded. Show some sympathy to them. They were really affected. You do not have to fight all battles. you called that person Jealous which I did not like. if You do not like just ignore the post but do not call the names.

What is invalid and illogical ? Explain

sargon
05-11-2009, 03:55 PM
I totally agree. The point here is that substituted labors are not completely dead. It's like a toxic waste which is still poisoning the legal immigration biosphere.

What most ppl here are asking is to rearrange the PDs of all apps in such a way that substituted labors move back in the queue. This will give the genuine labor folks a better chance.

So just chanting that labor substitution is dead for past two years will cut no ice. All, please don't muddy the water with such statements. The real issue being discussed here is to re-sort the PD, not banning labor substitutions.


Yes it was stopped in 2007. But it still has its shadow. Back in India Did you leave in area where there was shortage of water? All I said is do not call them as jealous. They have valid grievances. If they want they can fight.
Profile is not needed for an educated guess. Any way I became a citizen last week.

ps3539
05-11-2009, 04:30 PM
i agree that substituted labors move back in the queue.

ps3539
05-11-2009, 04:33 PM
Put suggestion on Immigration Secretary's website to move back substituted labors according to substitution dates (I-140 filing)

cloud 9
05-11-2009, 04:40 PM
Put suggestion on Immigration Secretary's website to move back substituted labors according to substitution dates (I-140 filing)

Hi ps3539 (Mr Genius)-->

What should be done to people who already got their GC or Citizenship using substitute labor? Should they be kicked out of the USA?

krupa
05-11-2009, 04:48 PM
This is not the healthy way of exchanging information and discussion among us. Make it all coulmns as required coulmns to become a member of this forum. There are so many members without furnishing the all the information and no one , I believe, disclosed their real name or identity. Asking a specific member to furnish all the details is not good. Do you think that you can shut the voice against subLb taking priority against others ?

Before creating further rifts first fill in your profile and then blabber...

addsf345
05-11-2009, 04:50 PM
Hi ps3539 (Mr Genius)-->

What should be done to people who already got their GC or Citizenship using substitute labor? Should they be kicked out of the USA?

the point ps3539 is forgetting that it was LEGAL. There was nothing illegal about it in those days. Get over it.

addsf345
05-11-2009, 04:57 PM
What I am saying is just do not look into the issues that affects only you. Just be open minded. Show some sympathy to them. They were really affected. You do not have to fight all battles. you called that person Jealous which I did not like. if You do not like just ignore the post but do not call the names.

What is invalid and illogical ? Explain

Sir,

Here is why I am interested in this discussion.

1.> I am from india and retrogression affects indians, hence I wish my community can fight against this in a democratic civil way as I have always said.

2.> If ppl like you, who has no profile and who claims to have become US Citizen last week, comes here and fuels the fire to divide us - this is not going un-noticed.

3.> I feel that instead of crying over small # of LC subs, we fight for something where everyone gets benefitted. If we are successful in visa recapture or end of retrogression, everyone of us would get gc if eligible. what effect of lc sub would be there in that case?

4.> however if ppl like you come and make us fight among overselves, we reach no where. May be this is what you want. isn't it?

5.> if a person is slightly over-weight, and if he is detected to have 2 cancers also - what should he do? worry about cancer first or that extra 2 pounds of weight? similary in current situation, the lcsub is slight over weight compared to cancer like 'large unused visa numbers' and 'unfair country qouta'.

I want my community to be united and fight bigger problem first. This is my interest. I fail to understand yours.

number30
05-11-2009, 05:24 PM
Sir,

Here is why I am interested in this discussion.

1.> I am from india and retrogression affects indians, hence I wish my community can fight against this in a democratic civil way as I have always said.

2.> If ppl like you, who has no profile and who claims to have become US Citizen last week, comes here and fuels the fire to divide us - this is not going un-noticed.

3.> I feel that instead of crying over small # of LC subs, we fight for something where everyone gets benefitted. If we are successful in visa recapture or end of retrogression, everyone of us would get gc if eligible. what effect of lc sub would be there in that case?

4.> however if ppl like you come and make us fight among overselves, we reach no where. May be this is what you want. isn't it?

5.> if a person is slightly over-weight, and if he is detected to have 2 cancers also - what should he do? worry about cancer first or that extra 2 pounds of weight? similary in current situation, the lcsub is slight over weight compared to cancer like 'large unused visa numbers' and 'unfair country qouta'.

I want my community to be united and fight bigger problem first. This is my interest. I fail to understand yours.
Now you are acting like crying baby.
Labor substitution was never illegal unless you have purchased it. Hijacking the priority date is incorrect according INA. If you are not feeling pity about the fellow immigrants who suffered injustice (also from India) you are selfish a individual. FYI more than 60% of the 2007 July fiasco were substitutes
I am neither IV core nor you (as per Profile). So all these guys can do is to bring this issue to their attention. So they can decide this battle needs to be fought or not.
You can check my earlier posts to know my status.
As for as fighting is concerned you are the one who started the fight calling them jealous. Since you do not have any points you are using such slurs. Please be gracious on such forums. Even if this is successful it will not affect you because your priority date was current when you applied the I-485. There might be delay which you can overcome by fighting for removing the country quota.

gc28262
05-11-2009, 05:36 PM
.................................................. ..........................
Any way I became a citizen last week.

You have become a citizen. What is your vested interest in pursuing this divisive discussion ?

Stay away from IV. We don't need your inputs here.

Admins,

number30 is likely an anti-immigrant. Please ban him.

addsf345
05-11-2009, 05:36 PM
Now you are acting like crying baby.
Labor substitution was never illegal unless you have purchased it. Hijacking the priority date is incorrect according INA. If you are not feeling pity about the fellow immigrants who suffered injustice (also from India) you are selfish a individual. FYI more than 60% of the 2007 July fiasco were substitutes I am neither IV core nor you (as per Profile). So all these guys can do is to bring this issue to their attention. So they can decide this battle needs to be fought or not.
You can check my earlier posts to know my status.
As for as fighting is concerned you are the one who started the fight calling them jealous. Since you do not have any points you are using such slurs. Please be gracious on such forums. Even if this is successful it will not affect you because your priority date was current when you applied the I-485. There might be delay which you can overcome by fighting for removing the country quota.

I justified 'jeolous' as I was jeolous too, when I could not get one lcsub for me. However thinking about it from all angles, I did overcome it now.

btw, do you have any proof or reference for this?

FYI more than 60% of the 2007 July fiasco were substitutes

addsf345
05-11-2009, 05:37 PM
You have become a citizen. What is your vested interest in pursuing this divisive discussion ?

Stay away from IV. We don't need your inputs here.

Admins,

number30 is likely an anti-immigrant. Please ban him.

I completely agree, I am suspicious about true intentions of Number30.

krupa
05-11-2009, 05:58 PM
Talk about present and future. Use good language, bad language shows your mentality

Hi ps3539 (Mr Genius)-->

What should be done to people who already got their GC or Citizenship using substitute labor? Should they be kicked out of the USA?

number30
05-11-2009, 06:20 PM
You have become a citizen. What is your vested interest in pursuing this divisive discussion ?

Stay away from IV. We don't need your inputs here.

Admins,

number30 is likely an anti-immigrant. Please ban him.

Wah! What did you see anti immigrant in my post? Can you please elaborate?

cloud 9
05-11-2009, 06:21 PM
Talk about present and future. Use good language, bad language shows your mentality


I was asking a question as to what should be done to people who already got their GC thru Labor Sub, since someone said that all the subs of 2007 should get the I-140 filing date as the priority date. I care only about the present and future. This is what I meant when I asked the question.


Sorry, if I could not write it properly for you to understand.

desi3933
05-11-2009, 06:28 PM
....
FYI more than 60% of the 2007 July fiasco were substitutes
.....

Would you mind sharing how did you get that number?

Thanks!


______________________
US citizen of Indian origin

gc28262
05-11-2009, 06:35 PM
Wah! What did you see anti immigrant in my post? Can you please elaborate?

Please answer my question. You will get the answer from your reply.

You have become a citizen. What is your vested interest in pursuing this divisive discussion ?

ksvreg
05-11-2009, 06:37 PM
Guys, please stop pointing each other on past issues. Please work together to fix the broken system. Past is past. When you get angry, I know it jumps you to hate all negative objects. Nothing we can get out of it. Please. Lets be united to fix things. Blaming will not fix anything instead it pulls legs of each other and finally set backs.

addsf345
05-11-2009, 06:42 PM
Guys, please stop pointing each other on past issues. Please work together to fix the broken system. Past is past. When you get angry, I know it jumps you to hate all negative objects. Nothing we can get out of it. Please. Lets be united to fix things. Blaming will not fix anything instead it pulls legs of each other and finally set backs.

You are right. We need to stop ppl like "Number30" who wants to ignite fight among us and keep on laughing on our misery. He makes stupid allegation that 60% of those who filed in july 2007 are subs. He disappears and never replies when you ask for proof. I don't know from where he is getting these ideas. Lets ignore "Number30" who keeps popping up with vested interest, claiming to have become US citizen.

Lets forget past. We can not change past, accept it. Get over it. I mean GET OVER IT. Lets not fight on eb2/3 or anything else. Lets follow IV core and try to work towards a fair system. If H1B hiring is not country based, why should EB immigration???? Why should I be punished for being born in India? or in china, Mexico or Philippines for that matter?

ps3539
05-11-2009, 10:14 PM
As I see, those who substituted labor would not want their priority dates moved back as per the date of substitution (filing I-140). This is an open forum.

yestogc
05-11-2009, 11:01 PM
USCIS has done what britisher's did "DIVIDE AND RULE".

They have divided the whole GC process into various categories already.

First it is Employment/Family/lottery.
Then it is eb1/2/3 and so on
Then it is country wise quota.

I mostly see people from categories eb 2 and 3 fight over this issue.
Few years back it was just eb3.

Please do not start a new category "SUBSTITUTED LABOR" .................no one wants anyone ahead of him and same applies to me as well.

gc28262
05-11-2009, 11:19 PM
Some of the members are so used to "short cuts" in their life. They hope they can get their GC tomorrow by pulling down another one in the queue. They are not willing to come in terms with the reality that retrogression is due to insufficient visa numbers and country cap.

The7zen
05-11-2009, 11:49 PM
!!!!!!!!

dallasdude
05-15-2009, 04:17 PM
I disagree that substituted labors has really impacted immigration..Those labor certifications that were once filed were thought to be used for some one anyway. If the original applicant wasn't laid off or hadn't changed plans, he would still be ahead of the current pending applicants. It's not the biggest of our current problems.

Companies should not have filed GC for all the non-qualified idiots who are currently got ahead of us.