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sundarpn
02-18-2007, 12:31 PM
Hello All,

I am sure many here would have thought about this since GC (esp EB3) has little hopes.

Wanted to open up pros & cons on immigations to canada.

I am thinking just applying for the PR and kept it as a back up then later decide if moving to canada is worth it etc based on jobs there... family needs etc at a later point in time. I think I should have those this 2 yrs ago and by now I would have had my PR:mad:

sgorla
02-18-2007, 12:59 PM
I think its purely personal choice whether to apply for Canadian PR or just continue with never ending GC struggle here in the US. It also depends on what kind of job market you are in. For instance, for a software programmer, the job location should not really matter as long as he can adjust to new country and willing to live there, where as for core engineers such as Civil Engineers it is going to be hard to find jobs. This is because Civil Engineers are required to have a Professional license to practice in Canada and US, and these licenses are not automatically valid if you move from one country to another. These engineers may have to go through the tough process of getting licensed by taking standardized tests again in the new country they like to adopt, and also the local codes and regulations could be drastically different from one country to another country, and essentially no matter how much experience you have in one country that may not necessarily applicalble in another coutry.
Personally I would be reluctant to apply for Canadian PR, as I have strong ties in the US, and have a good career ahead of me here in this country. If there is no hope for a GC in this country, thats fine I will just pack up and move to my home country rather than starting all over again in Canada or elsewhere.

bobzibub
02-18-2007, 02:10 PM
I'm a Canuck also waiting for the gc...

It is an honor to have your country thought of as an alternative.
For me, beyond the "it's home" part, there are considerations such as fiscal policy, public policy etc.

Canada is a pretty good place to live.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
Fiscally there have been federal surpluses for over a decade. (unlike the rest of the G7) This is important because of the baby boomers retiring and this will cause a lot of fiscal hurting in the next few decades for many countries.
The trade surplus is at it's lowest in 7 years but it is still a surplus.
There is universal health care (wait lists are a serious concern. They'll be fixed eventually).
There is relatively little racial strife. (much inter-racial marriage too.) Not that it doesn't happen, but it is much more fringe and it is frowned upon.
Cities like Vancouver are very cosmopolitan and individuals are exposed to the world outside their comfort zone. Sushi is fantastic there. Living costs are too high too.
There are more political parties so the issues of the day are not subservient to the political dynamic of one party over the other party. Not that politics doesn't get thrown into the mix, but it is not so much the only lens through which public policy is discussed.
Income taxes are high. I believe business taxes and costs are competitive though. There is less relative and absolute poverty than in the US. Schools are financed provincially, not by city, so there is not the problem of really bad schools in really poor districts. University tuition is not free, but not crazy priced either. There are government grants and loans for school expenses.

Canadians are much less romantic about war in general. I think that that is exemplified by the fact that we have Remembrance Day (Like the English and other Commonwealth countries) were the US has Veterans' day. Remembrance Day is to remember all the victims of war. Also, Canada is fighting in Afghanistan but not in Iraq.

There is not a general "immigrants (not us) cause all our problems" attitude. I watched one story where an Albertan company was actively recruiting labourers from Mexico. What a difference.

There are warts in any country. Sgorla above is right that one should check to see what the regulations are w.r.t professionals working in Canada--Definitely Always!!!!

I'm going back eventually. And I am happy that some people consider it as a place to work and live. Welcome!

Cheers,
-b

STAmisha
02-18-2007, 03:23 PM
I'm also in the same boat (EB3 India). I became a Canadian PR in Dec 2006. I visited Toronto and it is a great place. I loved it (but not the cold ). My impression is apart from weather, it is a great place.

People told me that there are no jobs there.I tested the job market there.I put my resume in monster.ca and workopolis.com. I did not get many calls. However I potentially got 2 jobs (Halifax and Vancouver).During the same duration, I got literally hundreds of calls in USA. So job market for IT is "OK". But salaries are not very good.If you are not in "IT", please dont take this suggestion as I dont know anything

nozerd
02-18-2007, 03:36 PM
Here goes this debate again.

Please dont compare USA and Canada. It is not fair. They are both totally different and both have their pros and cons.

An individual compares when they have a choice. So lets say Im buring a new car - I will compare Honda and Toyota. Or lets say Im in the mood to watch a movie I have choice between Hindi and English or I have choice between VCR, DVD, Theater.

In this case there is no choice. People want to move to Canada because they cant get US GC. Its basically like me going to a pure veg guy and asking him if he wasnts Masala Dosa or Mutton Biryani. By me telling the veg guy that mutton biryani is delicious whereas masala dosa is just so so doesnt really make much difference for him. There is really nothing to choose in this scenario.

Rather you should discuss life/standard of living in Canada v/s in home country. You have 3 choices.

1) Stay for next 5-10-15-20-xxx yrs in USA in hope of GC or favorable immig legislation.
2) Move to another country like Canada, Australia etc
3) Move back home.

If you have no issue with moving back home you shouldnt have an issue anyways.

GC08
02-18-2007, 06:28 PM
Hello All,

I am sure many here would have thought about this since GC (esp EB3) has little hopes.

Wanted to open up pros & cons on immigations to canada.

I am thinking just applying for the PR and kept it as a back up then later decide if moving to canada is worth it etc based on jobs there... family needs etc at a later point in time. I think I should have those this 2 yrs ago and by now I would have had my PR:mad:

There are so many pros on doing immigration to Canada and so few cons. The biggest con is you have a feeling of "settlement" while having the option to work in the U.S. I know a lot of people staying in Canada for 3 or 4 years, get their Canadian citizenship and then choose to work in the U.S. when opportunities come up. I think no matter how good the place, if it does not belong to you, the value to you is zero. If you have to pay a whole lot for that place, the value to you is dramatically decreased. One example is that I heard that a guy in the U.S. army lost his life in the Iraque war. The biggest wish of his was to become a U.S. citizen. He finally became but just too late. Is that worthwhile? For most people, probably not.

So do the Canadian immigration. The emotional toll of the U.S. immigration on people is just too huge.

akred
02-18-2007, 09:06 PM
As a software engineer from India, I have to say Canada does not make much sense. The average salary for a software engineer in Canada appears to be in the low to mid 30s with a low of $20/hr.

That matches or is below what you can get in India if you have 5+ years of experience. Also, India has a larger software industry than Canada, so job mobility can be greater and you can be closer to friends and family.

msp1976
02-18-2007, 11:20 PM
As a software engineer from India, I have to say Canada does not make much sense. The average salary for a software engineer in Canada appears to be in the low to mid 30s with a low of $20/hr.

That matches or is below what you can get in India if you have 5+ years of experience. Also, India has a larger software industry than Canada, so job mobility can be greater and you can be closer to friends and family.

On the other hand, Canada is the backyard of US and vise versa....
Once you get Canadian citizenship you can always get into US on a T-1 visa...
Lots of Canadians in US...

Actually the argument about India makes a lot of sense nowadays....

akred
02-18-2007, 11:56 PM
Once you get Canadian citizenship you can always get into US on a T-1 visa...


TN is no solution for permanent jobs as you have to renew the TN every year. You run the risk of being denied entry each time you enter. I have seen most people apply for a GC anyways for that reason, particularly if a family is involved.

STAmisha
02-19-2007, 09:49 AM
I agree that software jobs in INDIA are more in number compared to Canada. Ofcourse India as our HOME country, we will be closer to friends and family. But work culture in India not really great compared to USA/Canada/west. I worked in almost 5 countries and only in India it is expected to work most of the weekends and long nights. I know a lot of people whose salary in Canada (particularly Alberta/Toronto) getting around $85 USD. So it is up to the person to choose between India/USA/Canada

arsh007
02-19-2007, 10:09 AM
I agree that software jobs in INDIA are more in number compared to Canada. Ofcourse India as our HOME country, we will be closer to friends and family. But work culture in India not really great compared to USA/Canada/west. I worked in almost 5 countries and only in India it is expected to work most of the weekends and long nights. I know a lot of people whose salary in Canada (particularly Alberta/Toronto) getting around $85 USD. So it is up to the person to choose between India/USA/Canada

Wonder why none of us discuss Australia or UK. Both are good destinations and have good paying jobs.......atleast in IT.....

go_guy123
02-19-2007, 10:13 AM
I agree that software jobs in INDIA are more in number compared to Canada. Ofcourse India as our HOME country, we will be closer to friends and family. But work culture in India not really great compared to USA/Canada/west. I worked in almost 5 countries and only in India it is expected to work most of the weekends and long nights. I know a lot of people whose salary in Canada (particularly Alberta/Toronto) getting around $85 USD. So it is up to the person to choose between India/USA/Canada

That will always be there. At the end of the you have to accept India
has 1 billion plus population. Therefore per capital opportunities will always be limited.
All entrance exams etc are actually tests of elemination
where in the west they are used as tests of selction.

US economy is around 12 Trillion $ where Indian eocnomy is around
1 Trillion $

US population 300 million.
India 1 billion.

I have inteacted with Microsoft Chinese engineers in Shanghai (MSDN support) . Life is tough there as well with very long hours ( by the way
work wise they are more sincere/better than us. It is just their english that
holds them back in the IT services sector...not to mention they have more suitable time difference with US)

nozerd
02-19-2007, 10:48 AM
A few points of note

1) India v/s US or Canada or Australia is a personal debate. Depends on your circumstances. Some of us have been in US so long it may not be a viable option to settle back in India. If you are a new comer then it may make sense (ofcourse a new comer would be that frustrated about retro anyways)There is of course question of adjustment also. People who have kids in US school system beyong 2-3rd grade will not be able to adapt back to India education system but may more easily integrate in Canada's school system.

2) If you are SC, ST, OBC you have good opportunity in India for future education of kids etc. Rest are second class citizen. In another 10-15 yrs there will be 95% reservation and 5% open seats.

3) If after seeing how horribly UK has treated the Doctors and the Highly skilled Migrants recently I doubt any sane person would consider UK as an option.

4) Oz is a viable option. People prefer Canada to Oz because its closer to the US (I read somewhere that half of US population lives within 3 hr flight from Toronto) But Oz has certain advantages over Canada namely better weather, and Cricket :) Disadvantage of OZ is isolation, every other place is far away and more racism then in N America.

5) Lastly Jai Hind. India will always be a backup whatever happens. Even if you go to Canada/Oz and a couple of yrs later you dont like it you can always move to India. It may be more difficult to move to Canada/Oz from India on the other hand.

am4gc
02-19-2007, 11:17 AM
check the time zone analysis

That will always be there. At the end of the you have to accept India
has 1 billion plus population. Therefore per capital opportunities will always be limited.
All entrance exams etc are actually tests of elemination
where in the west they are used as tests of selction.

US economy is around 12 Trillion $ where Indian eocnomy is around
1 Trillion $

US population 300 million.
India 1 billion.

I have inteacted with Microsoft Chinese engineers in Shanghai (MSDN support) . Life is tough there as well with very long hours ( by the way
work wise they are more sincere/better than us. It is just their english that
holds them back in the IT services sector...not to mention they have more suitable time difference with US)

May not be so...check the time zone analysis
Work hours
USA 7 morning 5 evening

Taiwan 7 night 5 night --- whole evening+whole night : no sleep +no fun with TV

India 5 evening 3 night --- whole evening+half night : no fun with TV, half sleep

Europe 1 afternoon 11 night --- whole afternoon + whole evening : good Sleep, but no evening fun with TV

go_guy123
02-19-2007, 11:27 AM
check the time zone analysis


I know I said compared to India. 12 hrs is the worst time difference.
UK Client BPO in India are far better off time wise than the US Client BPO
in india.

Plus China US flight time is also less. 10 - 11 hrs or so in direct flight.
India its around 20 - 24 hrs (except the few direct ones started recently)
The flight is very exhausting.

tanwar
02-19-2007, 07:27 PM
can some one post the links for the canadian Immigration.

bobzibub
02-19-2007, 09:02 PM
can some one post the links for the canadian Immigration.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/

go_guy123
02-20-2007, 12:58 AM
can some one post the links for the canadian Immigration.

search for canada immigration newsgroup in www.britishexpats.com