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View Full Version : Schedule A got an Amendment, why not us


drirshad
03-11-2007, 05:18 AM
Why can there not be an Amendment for us ...........

Schedule A relief is part of CIR then how did they get this Amendment in place, can our lobbying firm get us an Amendment ........

http://hammondlawgroup.blogspot.com/

HUTCHISON RECAPTURE AMENDMENT
Saturday, March 10, 2007

Itís been a busy week and it is being topped off with the best news that weíve published in a very long time: Sen. Hutchison has formally introduced a provision to recapture about 90,000 visas for Schedule A nurse and PT's. This is a major piece of news.

The "Hutchison amendment" has been anticipated for a few weeks. If the Hutchison amendment passes retrogression is over.

Procedurally we have two hurdles. First, Sen. Durbin has introduced an amendment to Sen. Hutchison's amendment; however the details of this Durbin amendment are unpublished at this time. Second, the amendment must survive review and remain attached to Senate Bill #4. S.4 is expected to pass.

Even with the hurdles this is a major step forward. We're getting closer.

nk2006
03-11-2007, 09:43 AM
It might be true to some extent, but the real reason behind their success is: healthcare lobby and to be specific schedule A lobby is very strong.

If the non-partisan / non-political reasons are only criteria, the SKIL would have benn approved or atleast introduced separately by now.

If Hutchinson's amendment is passed 90k visas will be recaptured and set aside for schedule A; so even if CIR is passed there wont be any visas to recapture for eb2/eb3. We are screwed for one more time.

go_guy123
03-11-2007, 09:52 AM
It might be true to some extent, but the real reason behind their success is: healthcare lobby and to be specific schedule A lobby is very strong.

If the non-partisan / non-political reasons are only criteria, the SKIL would have benn approved or atleast introduced separately by now.

If Hutchinson's amendment is passed 90k visas will be recaptured and set aside for schedule A; so even if CIR is passed there wont be any visas to recapture for eb2/eb3. We are screwed for one more time.


Actually any industry lobby is very strong. The real reason they are lobbying for schedule A is that nurses cant(or cant easily be) be hired on H1B,
therefore they want green cards for them.

http://www.murthy.com/h1bnurse.html

Ironically Corp Lobby will only ask for GC reform for others only if they
stop the H1B program for them.

go_guy123
03-11-2007, 09:57 AM
There is actually no shortage...there is shortage at the salary that they want to give. Like ...there is no shortage of diamonds/gold as you can always
buy as many/much as you want at the market rate...Just that they
dont want to pay market rate.

Actually there is also a very severe shortage of doctors....one of the
reason for the shortage at Walter Reed.
The AMA (dots lobby) is very smart...they have dealth the problem in a whole different way.. They have made licensing for foreign doctors very difficult.
Therefore Govt can bring as many foreign doctors they want but without licensing they are no deflationary threat to their salaries.

Ramba
03-11-2007, 03:23 PM
I agree with you about issues in healthcare industry. However, the way they are lobbying is not so ethical and get the things done for Sch.A workers is not helping the immigrtion system, in general. It is making worst further. There are so many instances nurses got relief, like real id act. Even in the lameduck season, health care industry got some relief. All this could possible, because they have a strong lobbying power in DC as well as thick wallet. Furthermore, law makers immedialty agree for any issues for healtcare industry. If they have such power, why cant lobby for a seperate quota for Sch.A workers apart from regular EB quota? See, these unused visas are result of the USCIS inefficieny in processing 485s in past years. Actually it belongs to all.It is not that much ethical to request the law makers use those visas to only to Sch.A workers. Already they enjoyed greated extend by 50,000 visas by real ID act. What will they do, if there is no unused visas in EB catagories? Will they sit idle for CIR? If US hospitals deadly needs nurses will the lobbying group will sit idle? No, they will immedialty lobby to create new catagory for SCh.A workers, apart from regular EB catagory.

boston_gc
03-11-2007, 03:25 PM
Guys If anyone in this forum thinks that American industry thinks about immigrants think again. We have been in the same boat for the last several years. Both the houses had several opportunities to turn around things but failed on some or the other reason.

The bottom line is no one cares. Even Bill Gates cares about H1Bs. As long as American industry continues to get cheaper labor through illegal immigrants or through legal H1Bs, no one is going to care about people like us.

I am ready to bet here the only time American industry will care about us when someone tells them that they can;t have any more H1Bs because the immigration system is broken and it is not lucrative enough for people to even think about H1Bs.

Till then, keep supporting IV with money and moral support. :)

sanju
03-11-2007, 03:29 PM
Getting an amendment is not a big deal. But getting it passed is. Getting an amendment introduced is symbolic. Every year each bill has many amendments, sometimes hundreds of amendments. All the amendments are not considered/discussed/voted. Sen. HUTCHISON has a history of introducing the amendment for nurses. So there is nothing new to SA 364. But there is an amendment SA 442 (by Sen. DURBIN) over SA364. Most likely, these two are symbolic amendments and neither of the two amendments will be considered (and voted) in 9/11 bill as they are not germane to the bill. This is even more significant as we all know that comprehensive immigration bill is ready to be introduced any day now and no other immigration related provision has passed by the congress in more than one year, as they are all packaged in the comprehensive bill. So there are very less chances for the Senate to discuss and vote on immigration/visa related amendment in 9/11 bill. I think we would waste our time if we over analyze this HUTCHISON amendment and weigh this amendment being fair/unfair/disaster etc. This amendment is not going anywhere. All the articles in news media suggest that lawmakers are finding ways in which they can put their weight behind CIR. Even though it sounds difficult, CIR has better chances of passing this year as compared to last year. If it so happens that the CIR fails, by july-august timeframe, only then there would be any way of getting individual amendments/bills for specific/different groups like high-skilled (SKIL), agriculture workers(Agjobs), nurses (recapture amendment) and other such groups. So letís not get worked up and over analyze something that doesnít need such attention.

485Mbe4001
03-11-2007, 03:33 PM
Who knows if this is true, could be a new way of getting more funds...

if 90k go to Schd A. then there is nothing left for EB to recapture.... EB's stay inactive and watch you GC dreams go up in smoke.


Why can there not be an Amendment for us ...........

Schedule A relief is part of CIR then how did they get this Amendment in place, can our lobbying firm get us an Amendment ........

http://hammondlawgroup.blogspot.com/

HUTCHISON RECAPTURE AMENDMENT
Saturday, March 10, 2007

It’s been a busy week and it is being topped off with the best news that we’ve published in a very long time: Sen. Hutchison has formally introduced a provision to recapture about 90,000 visas for Schedule A nurse and PT's. This is a major piece of news.

The "Hutchison amendment" has been anticipated for a few weeks. If the Hutchison amendment passes retrogression is over.

Procedurally we have two hurdles. First, Sen. Durbin has introduced an amendment to Sen. Hutchison's amendment; however the details of this Durbin amendment are unpublished at this time. Second, the amendment must survive review and remain attached to Senate Bill #4. S.4 is expected to pass.

Even with the hurdles this is a major step forward. We're getting closer.

factoryman
03-11-2007, 03:34 PM
I urge everyone to oppose this amendment. Write to senators, congressmen. I haven't read to which bill this is attached. I will research more and do due diligence. My clarion call to all at IV. Oppose this Sen. Hutchinson amendment. Tooth and nail.

Last time, this was done was in Jul 2005. This affected visa availability down the line in time and retrogression kicked in. Nobody can provide hard and measurable metrics about this, but I am sure you get the net effect. Do not take this lightly; else we are all doomed in this visa wait. I can't say this any strongly than this.


Guys If anyone in this forum thinks that American industry thinks about immigrants think again. We have been in the same boat for the last several years. Both the houses had several opportunities to turn around things but failed on some or the other reason.

The bottom line is no one cares. Even Bill Gates cares about H1Bs. As long as American industry continues to get cheaper labor through illegal immigrants or through legal H1Bs, no one is going to care about people like us.

I am ready to bet here the only time American industry will care about us when someone tells them that they can;t have any more H1Bs because the immigration system is broken and it is not lucrative enough for people to even think about H1Bs.

Till then, keep supporting IV with money and moral support. :)

riva2005
03-11-2007, 06:57 PM
Calm down guys...

Nurses arent getting anything before CIR. And trust me, there are many other people who want that recapture to stay with EB1-2-3 because they were recaptured from EB 1-2-3.

We are not alone in opposing the schedule A recapture of visas that were generated for the EB visa categories.

As Sanju noted, there are hundreds of bills and amendments that are introduced but that dont go anywhere. 2 months ago, there was an AGJOBS amendment and in response to that, Kennedy introduced Title V of CIR as amendment to that amendment.

Just cool down and wait for CIR like rest of the world. Even George Bush cannot get an immigration related amendment done before CIR either passes or fails. Read some editorials on homepage and some articles in "The Hill", "Congressional Quarterly" etc. to learn more about these things.

sanju
03-11-2007, 11:23 PM
Chill out, take it easy. Your rationale is not the basis for Schedule-A amendment. The reason for the amendment to recapture visas for "only" Schedule-A is all about politics and nothing to do with the nobleness of the issue. No offense meant but there is no need for "congrats", this amendment is not going anywhere. Retrogression for all of us will end at the same time. Retrogression is not about nurses V/s IT folks, and you and I cannot re-define the meaning of retrogression, even if we want to. Take a high road....

go_gc_way
03-11-2007, 11:55 PM
Well I agree Nurses are important for every one .. but can not understand why they have to be accomodated at the expense of regular EB categories ,when regular EB are waiting for YEARS for their turn in que !!

I hope they can be accomodated in other ways.

"There is a massive backlog in many of the employment-based green card categories, and wait times routinely reach five years. Ironically, waiting periods are even longer for nationals of India and China Ė the very countries that are key recruiting grounds for the professionals desperately needed in many innovative fields." -- Bill Gates

Ramba
03-12-2007, 01:05 AM
OK. If only the foreign born nurses can save the dying americans, then there is some thing wrong in that industry or the system. It is a big big issue. Then, it should be addressed immediatly. If it is so serious issue to the nation, why don't they pass a emergency law to create seperate quota for nurses?. When they pass a law to agricultular workers with out part of CIR, why can't for nurses?. I welcome if they pass a emergency law for a sch.A workers new 100,000 or 1,000,000 immigrant visas immediatly. Why they are not doing it? Why they just target a small unused visas by other folks by a decade? If the nursing job is so demand, they should pass a seperate emergncy law or they should have attached a provision for sepearte quota for nurses in so many heath care industry bills passed in last two years. I feel the only the logic behind the lobbying for health care industry.

The long waitng for emergency care in US not only related to shortage of man power, also unnessary protocalls.

go_gc_way
03-12-2007, 01:41 AM
Hello , I don't think any one denies admitting Nurses immediately, question is why is it at the expense of regular EB !!

Just wondering if any one knows, why not create a separate quota if it is so urgent.

senthil1
03-12-2007, 01:56 AM
It is not a good idea to oppose immigration of nurses. If needed we can ask to share the unused visa. Otherwise we have to be neutral on that. Mainly EB GC lobbying people is not interested in temporary provisions so they are concentrating on Skil Bill

For example I personally oppose Too much H1b numbers(My opinion is to increase H1b by 120k not more than that). But if I do publically at the same time favor gc increase then they will brand be as anti immigrant and I will be considered as double speaking. So it is better to be neutral in the issues you do not like. If we are favoring immigration we cannot oppose immigration of nurses if it is legal and needed.


Hello , I don't think any one denies admitting Nurses immediately, question is why is it at the expense of regular EB !!

Just wondering if any one knows, why not create a separate quota if it is so urgent.

purgan
03-12-2007, 08:45 AM
Last time in July 2005, 50K visas were recaptured for nurses. that solved nurse retrogression until Nov 2006. (16-17 months)

It is expected that Sch A will be exempted from limits in the current CIR Bill (Brownback Amendment). CIR is expected to pass by September (6 months). given prior experience 25K visas recptured for nurses should be able to solve retrogression problem until CIR is passed later this year.

pmpforgc
03-12-2007, 11:06 AM
Hi

We dont know yet this RECAPTURE OF SCH-A Visa will pass or not.

But as some of you might know that Some of our NIW and other peoples also applied as SCH-A GROUP II as person of exceptional ability in arts and sciences. They were able to file I-485 as Sch-A was open at that time.

but looking to the details of provision of this proposed ammendmnet THEY ARE INTENDING TO KEEP SCH-A GROUP II out of this recapture benifit

Look at the text of proposed ammendment bleow

(c) Recapture of Unused Employment-Based Immigrant Visas.--Section 106(d) of the American Competitiveness in the Twenty-first Century Act of 2000 (Public Law 106-313; 8 U.S.C. 1153 note) is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)--

(A) by inserting ``1996, 1997,'' after ``available in fiscal year''; and

(B) by inserting ``group I,'' after ``schedule A,'';
(2) in paragraph (2)(A), by inserting ``1996, 1997, and'' after ``available in fiscal years''; and

(Assuming that it passes the senate and house) EXPERIENCED AND KNOWLEDGABLE MEMBERS CAN YOU SHARE your views on the effect of the proposed Recapture ammendment for Sch-A GROUP II who already have filed their I-485's and I-140 are approved as SCH-A group II

This is interesting to note that they dont want Recaprture for All Sch-A but only a part of Sch-A categorey.

This point also might help IV and its members to make case against this recapture provision as IT DOES NOT INCLUDE ALL BLANKET APPROVALS CATOGOREY BY LABOR DEPARTMENT.

thanks

pappu
03-12-2007, 11:46 AM
pmpforgc, good review.
We would urge every member to go through each upcoming ammendments and the upcoming CIR bill with a superfine tooth comb so that we can ensure nothing is ommited or slipped in the language that will hurt our interests.

diqingshen
03-12-2007, 12:10 PM
03/12/2007: Disappointing News of Sen. Cornyn and Rep. Kyl to Introduce Separate Border Security Only Bills in the Two Chambers to Oppose CIR

It is extremely disappointing to read a news that these two gentlemen have not changed their attitude on the immigration issues. We really understand how upset they are over the recent Democrats' behavior alienating the Republicans in the immigration reform legislation process, but it would not justify their repetition of the past behaviors in the CIR process. We rather hoped that he quickly introduce the SKIL bill and negotiate with the CIR legislative leaders for an assurance that the SKIL bill is included in the CIR and not neglected. We urge these respected legislators not to repeat the past mistake of the Republican Congress.

raju123
03-12-2007, 12:17 PM
I would request you to post source of information.


03/12/2007: Disappointing News of Sen. Cornyn and Rep. Kyl to Introduce Separate Border Security Only Bills in the Two Chambers to Oppose CIR

It is extremely disappointing to read a news that these two gentlemen have not changed their attitude on the immigration issues. We really understand how upset they are over the recent Democrats' behavior alienating the Republicans in the immigration reform legislation process, but it would not justify their repetition of the past behaviors in the CIR process. We rather hoped that he quickly introduce the SKIL bill and negotiate with the CIR legislative leaders for an assurance that the SKIL bill is included in the CIR and not neglected. We urge these respected legislators not to repeat the past mistake of the Republican Congress.

riva2005
03-12-2007, 12:24 PM
Guys,

Please educate yourself and learn something before posting doomsday scenarios.

Learn something from last year:

1. Cornyn has always opposed amnesty, guestworker for undocumented/unskilled etc. He has always championed SKIL bill. Nothing has changed in that.

2. Even though he has introduced companion bill with Jon Kyl of Arizona, its nothing new. They did that in 2005 and in 2006 also. And then in 2006, Cornyn got his entire SKIL bill added to last minute amendments in CIR.

3. This year they are doing the same thing as a boxing match with Kennedy and McCain. Kennedy and McCain have been keeping the CIR too secret and that is making a lot of people very mad in the Judiciary committee and in the Senate. So this is what people normally do. They introduce statement bills.

go_gc_way
03-12-2007, 12:28 PM
It is not a good idea to oppose immigration of nurses. If needed we can ask to share the unused visa. Otherwise we have to be neutral on that. Mainly EB GC lobbying people is not interested in temporary provisions so they are concentrating on Skil Bill

For example I personally oppose Too much H1b numbers(My opinion is to increase H1b by 120k not more than that). But if I do publically at the same time favor gc increase then they will brand be as anti immigrant and I will be considered as double speaking. So it is better to be neutral in the issues you do not like. If we are favoring immigration we cannot oppose immigration of nurses if it is legal and needed.

I did not oppose (If my post sounded like that).
Any way , thanks for throwing light -- I agree.

riva2005
03-12-2007, 12:30 PM
INTRODUCTION OF BILL DOENST MEAN ANYTHING.

INTRODUCTION OF BILL DOENST MEAN ANYTHING.

INTRODUCTION OF BILL DOENST MEAN ANYTHING.

There are 535 members in the US congress. 100 in Senate. 435 in the House. Any one of them can draft a bill, make a print-out and "drop" it in the House/Senate. And once "dropped"(Introduced) it can be up on thomas.loc.gov in 2-3 business days.

However, that is not worth a bucket of warm spit.

If the leadership of House/Senate do not take up the bill on schedule, then all that the bill does is

1. Make a position statement for the lawmaker. Better way to state your position than a press release.

2. Appease the special interest who are pushing that office to "Do something".

3. Keep it as a place-holder for future consideration. If ever there is an opportunity, they can push to make that intro-bill an amendment to a bigger bill. Examples : SKIL bill became amendment of CIR last year, DREAM act, AGJOBS bill etc.

Please pay attention to capitol hill before carping about nurses and agricultural visas and before crying/complaining.

And please please talk to some office in leadership. EVERYONE will tell you that "WE WONT ALLOW ANYTHING BEFORE CIR IS DISCUSSED, DEBATED AND VOTED UPON". Nothing means nothing. No SKIL, No Agjobs, No nurses, No Small-tiny-teeny-weeny bills, no sneaky amendments in spending bills. NOTHING.

pappu
03-12-2007, 01:05 PM
Thanks for your post and being informative. We understand your frustration and appreciate the concern.

IV understands the issues and have been working with the lobbying firm on the stratagy that has more chances of success.

Please be patient and support us in the meet the lawmakers drive and funding drives at this time.

bkarnik
03-12-2007, 01:47 PM
Thanks for your post and being informative. We understand your frustration and appreciate the concern.

IV understands the issues and have been working with the lobbying firm on the stratagy that has more chances of success.

Please be patient and support us in the meet the lawmakers drive and funding drives at this time.

Further to what Pappu has mentioned, the latest information indicates that no immigration related amendment (whether pro or anti) will be considered unless it is germane to the intent of the bill (which is to address the 9/11 commission recommendations). Therefore, the Schedule I amendment is not going to be approved.

As to the issue of the subject matter of this thread (if nurses can, why can't we), this or similar threads are started by members every time any amendment is introduced by any Senator in any bill. This issue has been addressed by logiclife. The main reason why the nurses or for that matter the anti-immigration crowd can get their amendments in is because they have $$$$ to spend. We do not. Therefore, we focus our attention on only those bills which would have a chance of passing WITH our amendments included. This we do in discussion with Patton Boggs and our other contacts in the Congress.

Second, we have been told and we have accordingly conveyed this to our members many times as riva2005 has pointed out, that the Democratic leadership in Congress wants to do a CIR. They will not allow any piecemeal legislation through in order to maintain support for the CIR. If members were listening to the hearing on CIR held recently, Sen. Feinstein tried to bring up the issue of passing the bill in stages. However, not one senator on either side, spoke in support of her position.

The IV team not only understands the frustrations of the members, we are ourselves living with those frustrations. Therefore, it is equally important to us that we do not let any chance slip and in an ideal world, where we would be flush with money, we would be having our amendment in every bill that were to be proposed in the Senate and the House. (Actually, in an ideal world, we would not even be having this discussion, would we??) However, in a real world, we do not have this luxury and therefore need to make a decision based on the information available to us at that time whether to push or not.

Please keep your trust in us and keep contributing in whichever manner you can, be it donating money, getting new members to join in, or contacting your representatives in Congress and God willing, we will get the job done.