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pd_recapturing
04-10-2007, 07:27 PM
Did anybody notice that suddenly, job market is not doing that good lately? I am noticing that hourly rate is declining and market is flooded with resumes. I am not sure about all over US but this is happening in DC Metro area. Can somebdy conform this if he/she is in job market right now?

rbharol
04-10-2007, 07:31 PM
Not sure now, but recently I was getting calls from recruiters..

pd_recapturing
04-10-2007, 07:43 PM
Actually, problem of job security is specifically happening with H1B people. It looks like jobs are there but for H1B ppl, most of them get filtered out. Atleast 60% of total jobs go to GC and citizens and for half of the rest, recruiters asked to come on their W2 that most of the H1 guys cant do because of their GC sitaution.

vejella
04-10-2007, 07:54 PM
Did anybody notice that suddenly, job market is not doing that good lately? I am noticing that hourly rate is declining and market is flooded with resumes. I am not sure about all over US but this is happening in DC Metro area. Can somebdy conform this if he/she is in job market right now?


i guess it could be the Outsourcing companies penetration into the It sector is increasing day by day .

I have seen some of the clients that have either moved their operations to India or sub contracted to Indian Outsourcing companies....


With the tremdous H1-L1 influx Not sure how the future is gonna be :(

chanduv23
04-10-2007, 07:56 PM
Same here in New York City. Though you get a lot of calls, reqruiters of non Indian companies do not even want to deal with H1b whereas Indian reqruiting commapnies do not want to deal with corp to corp. Iff someone wants to deal with corp to corp, the rates are very low.

So it is happening everywhere, any reason for this backlash?

gsc999
04-10-2007, 08:08 PM
Actually, problem of job security is specifically happening with H1B people. It looks like jobs are there but for H1B ppl, most of them get filtered out. Atleast 60% of total jobs go to GC and citizens and for half of the rest, recruiters asked to come on their W2 that most of the H1 guys cant do because of their GC sitaution.
---
Please see the info. from BLS website (Bureau of Labor statistics) below:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

March data shows unemployment rate is 4.4%, which is low. This number includes e'one. If you take into account just hi-skilled employment, that is even better. See this url for additional info:
http://www.acinet.org/acinet/oview1.asp?next=oview1&Level=BAplus&optstatus=&jobfam=&id=1%2C%2C1&nodeid=3&soccode=&stfips=00&ShowAll=&x=32&y=20


Moreover, W-2 is issued to e'body on payroll. It is a statutory Federal tax law requirement. What are you trying to say?

Don't start a rumor

chanduv23
04-10-2007, 08:12 PM
---
Please see the info. from BLS website (Bureau of Labor statistics) below:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

March data shows unemployment rate is 4.4%, which is low. This number includes e'one. If you take into account just hi-skilled employment, that is even better. See this url for additional info:
http://www.acinet.org/acinet/oview1.asp?next=oview1&Level=BAplus&optstatus=&jobfam=&id=1%2C%2C1&nodeid=3&soccode=&stfips=00&ShowAll=&x=32&y=20


Moreover, W-2 is issued to e'body on payroll. It is a statutory Federal tax law requirement. What are you trying to say?


What he means is the reqruiters want you transfer h1b instead of being a contractor and staying at same company (corp to corp)

dish
04-10-2007, 08:27 PM
If somebody wants to switch from per annum salary to hourly rate, does a new LCA need to be submitted. Employer is not paying up to market rate, no relocation, medical benefits etc. Says he is willing to do 70-30 on hourly rate. but wants to postpone it till H1 extension time that is after one more year.

eb3India
04-10-2007, 08:55 PM
I think it depends on area and your skill set, I changed my job in last November with 20% hike and a sign-on bonus (not much 5k), but I still get calls from recruters

I think Market is stable overall, however there will be some imbalance if everyone starts getting GC and they start changing job there will be more supply,

I also see few companies bringing few projects from India, I know one company who is hiring locally to inshore couple of projects

pd_recapturing
04-10-2007, 09:44 PM
---
Please see the info. from BLS website (Bureau of Labor statistics) below:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

March data shows unemployment rate is 4.4%, which is low. This number includes e'one. If you take into account just hi-skilled employment, that is even better. See this url for additional info:
http://www.acinet.org/acinet/oview1.asp?next=oview1&Level=BAplus&optstatus=&jobfam=&id=1%2C%2C1&nodeid=3&soccode=&stfips=00&ShowAll=&x=32&y=20


Moreover, W-2 is issued to e'body on payroll. It is a statutory Federal tax law requirement. What are you trying to say?

Don't start a rumor
Well, in case of H1B job, you cant go by generic job data statistics. H1B guys have to go through much more than simply getting the project. The rate plays major role in it. I was simply saying that rates are not that good as it used to be an year back and in my opinion, its getting detoririated day by day.The problem is bigger with the H1B guys who are bound with their employers because of GC thing so practically, they cant change their jobs. Emplyers are taking advantage of this situation. In places like DC where most of the jobs are with fed, sitauation is really bad for H1Bs as those jobs are specifically for citizens/GCs.
I am not trying to spread rumors. Instead, I am trying to get a feel from other people who might be in similar situation.

adde72
04-10-2007, 10:33 PM
Well, in case of H1B job, you cant go by generic job data statistics. H1B guys have to go through much more than simply getting the project. The rate plays major role in it. I was simply saying that rates are not that good as it used to be an year back and in my opinion, its getting detoririated day by day.The problem is bigger with the H1B guys who are bound with their employers because of GC thing so practically, they cant change their jobs. Emplyers are taking advantage of this situation. In places like DC where most of the jobs are with fed, sitauation is really bad for H1Bs as those jobs are specifically for citizens/GCs.
I am not trying to spread rumors. Instead, I am trying to get a feel from other people who might be in similar situation.

I agree with pd_recapturing.
I am in DC market and seeing the declining trend in the hourly rate and the no of jobs. However DC market is not a indicator of US market as most of the jobs here requires security clearance/citizenship etc., which h1b are not eligible..

redcard
04-11-2007, 08:24 AM
I agree with pd_recapturing.
I am in DC market and seeing the declining trend in the hourly rate and the no of jobs. However DC market is not a indicator of US market as most of the jobs here requires security clearance/citizenship etc., which h1b are not eligible..

The DC market was never large for H1-B holders.. its was only in the last few years that two of the biggest employers in this area needed consultants to get thru their re-statements for which they had hired over 4-5K consultants.. now that the restatements are done.. they have let go the consultants at the same time in a short span, hence you have an oversupply of people in this area...so its technical correction happening in this metro area.. nothing to do with blacklash.. don't forget US is a capitalistic economy.. atleast most of its is.. and everything is determined by demand and supply....

The good thing is that lots of new areas now have huge demand with short supply... like Las Vegas.. Austin... Tampa... Charlotte. Jacksonville...Portland OR , Tulsa..

chanduv23
04-11-2007, 09:28 AM
The DC market was never large for H1-B holders.. its was only in the last few years that two of the biggest employers in this area needed consultants to get thru their re-statements for which they had hired over 4-5K consultants.. now that the restatements are done.. they have let go the consultants at the same time in a short span, hence you have an oversupply of people in this area...so its technical correction happening in this metro area.. nothing to do with blacklash.. don't forget US is a capitalistic economy.. atleast most of its is.. and everything is determined by demand and supply....

The good thing is that lots of new areas now have huge demand with short supply... like Las Vegas.. Austin... Tampa... Charlotte. Jacksonville...Portland OR , Tulsa..

NYC situation looks different. More to do with outsourcing and cheap labor, due to the fact that most h1b shops are located in New Jersey and a huge pool of H1b labor is available brings down the rates and also the fact that being the financial capital of the world most of these companies are financial companies and technical departments are just a part of the company - so no real scrutiny on quality of IT personnel. Consulting companies manage to satisfy the financial companies with cheap labor and thus displaces the experienced workers who want high rates. Thats why I think it is competitive on h1b. A cap looks like the only protection for balancing rates and if cap increases, rates will furrther go down in these areas.

This does not have anything to do with unemployment rates or Americans losing jobs. This is created by outsourcing and consulting companies who think temporary jobs tend to go long term.

chanduv23
04-11-2007, 09:33 AM
The DC market was never large for H1-B holders.. its was only in the last few years that two of the biggest employers in this area needed consultants to get thru their re-statements for which they had hired over 4-5K consultants.. now that the restatements are done.. they have let go the consultants at the same time in a short span, hence you have an oversupply of people in this area...so its technical correction happening in this metro area.. nothing to do with blacklash.. don't forget US is a capitalistic economy.. atleast most of its is.. and everything is determined by demand and supply....

The good thing is that lots of new areas now have huge demand with short supply... like Las Vegas.. Austin... Tampa... Charlotte. Jacksonville...Portland OR , Tulsa..

Yes New York, DC, Atlanta, SFO, Chicago, Seattle always have labor available in form of consulting companies so rates are standard and competitive. It is a challeenge to look for an extra $$ even if you are smart and competitive and on H1b, because employers have tendency to first look at numbers before looking at skills. And if they get a decent looking resume (though may not be great) and if numbers are low, they go for it and the candidate gets placed.

priderock
04-11-2007, 11:47 AM
I smell 2001.

go2roomshare
04-11-2007, 11:56 AM
I smell 2001.

I heard same kind of feeling with some of my friends. He has few friends (4 or more) on bench for more than 4 months now still looking for projects. Their skill are hot too, J2EE few in .NET.

praveen_maru
04-11-2007, 01:00 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/11/news/economy/recession_fears/index.htm?postversion=2007041108

chanduv23
04-11-2007, 01:05 PM
Yes, job market seems to be steadily declining, first I thought it was just NYC when I found it difficult to get a good $$ contract, but later so many people having the same problem.

This will affect a lot in decision making of quota increase etc...

uma001
04-11-2007, 03:00 PM
Market itself not good for past 2-3 months.
So dont lose hope, try hard do aggressive marketing until you get project.Try diff skillsets

songlan
04-12-2007, 09:41 AM
Totally agree with you. I'm living in DC / Virginia Area. Just one day after getting EAD, I sent out my resumes and guess what , received 4 calls in one weeks, all of them require GC status, at least.

Well, in case of H1B job, you cant go by generic job data statistics. H1B guys have to go through much more than simply getting the project. The rate plays major role in it. I was simply saying that rates are not that good as it used to be an year back and in my opinion, its getting detoririated day by day.The problem is bigger with the H1B guys who are bound with their employers because of GC thing so practically, they cant change their jobs. Emplyers are taking advantage of this situation. In places like DC where most of the jobs are with fed, sitauation is really bad for H1Bs as those jobs are specifically for citizens/GCs.
I am not trying to spread rumors. Instead, I am trying to get a feel from other people who might be in similar situation.

chanduv23
04-12-2007, 09:54 AM
Totally agree with you. I'm living in DC / Virginia Area. Just one day after getting EAD, I sent out my resumes and guess what , received 4 calls in one weeks, all of them require GC status, at least.

Its really wierd these days. I have noticed

If you are on h1b and non local - they say we do accept 1hb, but we want local candidates
If you are on H1b and local - they say H1b Traansfer or EAD or GC
If you say your GC is applied - they say when will you get it?
If you say I am on EAD - they say only GC or Citizen for this
If you are GC - They may say that your skill does not match fully or look at a skill that you dont have and say thats what this job is all about or say this needs security clearance
If you are a citizen - Not sure what they say ??? They may not be able to pay your expectations

I think the underlying fact is that jobs are slow and reqruiting is moving slowly so these reqruiters just dont realise that and want to fill up a position by any means.
When you post ur job on the internet, you clearly mention your status and skills and what you are looking for, they still call you and ask you and waste your time.

h1techSlave
04-12-2007, 10:14 AM
I know several people who are actually recruiters. Right now, it is incredibly difficult to get people with technical skills + some what okay communication skills.

Most Americans do not want to work in technical areas. They only want some managerial positions. ("blah blah" jobs, I call it).

If you advertise for technical positions, there are not many people with required skill sets. Even the ones that you can find would demand astronomical salaries. .NET 2 years $60 hour, for example. If you advertise for project management position, there would be a ton of resumes, all with PMP certifications.

Since, my information is coming from recruiters, this is the case all over the US (pretty much).

Also I just wanted to add an out of topic point. The situation in medical field is even worse than that in tech area. Americans, simply do not want to work in the actual "patient care" area in nursing. They just want some file pushing work or teaching positions. As told by a Registered Nurse, patient care involves "cleaning of shit", some thing an average American loathe. End result, Indian and Philipphine nurses are making 100+ per annum and there are not enough people even for that salary.

Cheers,
h1techSlave

summerof98
04-12-2007, 10:30 AM
I know several people who are actually recruiters. Right now, it is incredibly difficult to get people with technical skills + some what okay communication skills.

Most Americans do not want to work in technical areas. They only want some managerial positions. ("blah blah" jobs, I call it).

If you advertise for technical positions, there are not many people with required skill sets. Even the ones that you can find would demand astronomical salaries. .NET 2 years $60 hour, for example. If you advertise for project management position, there would be a ton of resumes, all with PMP certifications.

Since, my information is coming from recruiters, this is the case all over the US (pretty much).

Also I just wanted to add an out of topic point. The situation in medical field is even worse than that in tech area. Americans, simply do not want to work in the actual "patient care" area in nursing. They just want some file pushing work or teaching positions. As told by a Registered Nurse, patient care involves "cleaning of shit", some thing an average American loathe. End result, Indian and Philipphine nurses are making 100+ per annum and there are not enough people even for that salary.

Cheers,
h1techSlave

I agree with h1techSlave. The current job market is probably the best we have seen in the last 5-6 years. And I am sure it is only going to get better.

The key is the skill set and level of saturation in your field. I am purely in the hard core manufacturing sector (non-IT). Even though the maximum outsourcing has been in the manufacturing sector (to Mexico, China, etc.) there are plethora of technical jobs available in the manufacturing industry. I get calls from recruiters every 2-3 weeks. Some of the companies are even ready to do the H1-B. I am happy where I currently am. Even though our jobs do not pay as much as the IT sector, jobs are plentiful and are available in just about every geographic location in this country. Companies are hurting for lack of potential skilled and technical employees.

My 10 cents.

chanduv23
04-12-2007, 10:48 AM
I agree with h1techSlave. The current job market is probably the best we have seen in the last 5-6 years. And I am sure it is only going to get better.

The key is the skill set and level of saturation in your field. I am purely in the hard core manufacturing sector (non-IT). Even though the maximum outsourcing has been in the manufacturing sector (to Mexico, China, etc.) there are plethora of technical jobs available in the manufacturing industry. I get calls from recruiters every 2-3 weeks. Some of the companies are even ready to do the H1-B. I am happy where I currently am. Even though our jobs do not pay as much as the IT sector, jobs are plentiful and are available in just about every geographic location in this country. Companies are hurting for lack of potential skilled and technical employees.

My 10 cents.

whenever I post my resume on web - I get tons of calls, and the reqruiters almost make my day miserable by constantly calling and bugging. But I don't see rates in IT going up, (my skill VC++, Windows Mobile, Principal Engineer, 10 years exp etc...) Getting $75 to $80 per hour seems challenging on corp to corp, I am not sure if I already reached the higher end of the market but I always had a constant rate hike till last year and this year my options are to just keep my rate as to what I get now and not look for a hike anymore, because when I want to switch the rates being quoted for h1b corp to corp are far less than what were being quoted last year. Well, I concentrate my search in NYC only and looks like reqruiters cant do these rates on corp to corp, so they force you to transfer h1b if you want to get what you want.

I am not sure if this is because of outsourcing or because of all the h1bs available in NJ companies make the rates competitive.

offcourse $60 per hour jobs are available, but the jobs being adbertised as competitive rates, I doubt if they are actually high paying. Or maybe this is just my perception.

go_guy123
04-12-2007, 11:50 AM
bugging. But I don't see rates in IT going up, (my skill VC++, Windows Mobile, Principal Engineer, 10 years exp etc...) Getting $75 to $80 per hour seems challenging on corp to corp, I am not sure if I already

VC++ is in bad shape as such in US. I was in VC++ area a year back I shifted to Oracle side.
Yes I also heard from people (in DC area ) that job market has softened a bit.

gcpool
04-12-2007, 01:11 PM
Do you qualify to apply? I mean are they okay with your EAD

Totally agree with you. I'm living in DC / Virginia Area. Just one day after getting EAD, I sent out my resumes and guess what , received 4 calls in one weeks, all of them require GC status, at least.

chanduv23
04-12-2007, 04:09 PM
VC++ is in bad shape as such in US. I was in VC++ area a year back I shifted to Oracle side.
Yes I also heard from people (in DC area ) that job market has softened a bit.

yeah, I figured that, so I focus more on my .net C# skills at a senior level because of experience, but in the contracting world this poses a challenge because jobs at this level are only fulltime or maybe the market is just dull for everything.

alterego
04-12-2007, 05:43 PM
The Hi tech job area is exquisitely sensitive to the economic vagaries of the USA. It tends to be at the forefront of a boom as well as a recession.
The Fed however looks at the whole economy. At this time they are on a wait and see mode. Balancing inflationary risks versus an economic slowdown.

In the coming months, if things move into a recessionary mode then you will find that they will step on the gas, by cutting interest rates, inject monetary liquidity into the economy and jump start things. They have the ability to do that with high rates, and budget deficits in decline and ahead of schedule. I believe any downturn should it come will be a very shallow one. The current job market will meander along until this is decided.

The more uncertain thing is external global shocks. Trade war with "Chindia", escalation of a middle eastern war, terrorism etc. Those have the potential to destabilise and make the downturn more severe and less managable.

gsc999
04-15-2007, 12:42 PM
Latest Bloomberg Survey:

Date Time Period Indicator BN Survey Prior
04/16 8:30 Feb. Business Inventories 0.3% 0.2%
04/16 8:30 March Retail Sales 0.6% 0.1%
04/16 8:30 March Retail Sales Ex-autos 0.9% -0.1%
04/16 8:30 March Retail Sales X-autos/gas 0.6% -0.3%
04/17 8:30 March Consumer Price Index 0.6% 0.4%
04/17 8:30 March CPI Ex-food & energy 0.2% 0.2%
04/17 8:30 March Housing Starts 1.495M 1.525M
04/17 9:15 March Capacity Utilization 81.9% 82.0%
04/17 9:15 March Industrial Production 0.0% 1.0%
04/19 8:30 4/7 Continuing Claims 2510K 2527K
04/19 8:30 4/14 Initial Jobless Claims 321.5K 342K
04/19 10:00 March Leading Indicators 0.1% -0.5%
04/19 12:00 April Philadelphia Fed 2.0 0.2

Source: Bloomberg.com

See below for the complete article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aiWDSSIFOins&refer=home

dilbert_cal
04-15-2007, 01:21 PM
whenever I post my resume on web - I get tons of calls, ............) Getting $75 to $80 per hour seems challenging on corp to corp, I am not sure if I already reached the higher end of the market but I always had a constant rate hike till last year ............

There are ceilings which are hard to break out of. The higher you go on the food chain, the lesser choices and options you have. Most of the consulting jobs are for software engineer or senior software engineer position. Not many companies hire Project Leads or Project Manager ( Technical ) from consulting world. Jobs are more on the lower end, easier to find but are in lower pay rate. Folks with experience of 10+ years will not necessarily get paid at the same ascending rate unfortunately. Of course, there are exceptions too and luck is a big factor.

nixstor
04-15-2007, 01:29 PM
I can't resist myself from making this rant.

<rant>
There are so many people here in DC area. (VA/MD) Why the hell on earth people do not show up for any event? Even on the weekends?
</rant>

go_guy123
04-15-2007, 05:57 PM
In the coming months, if things move into a recessionary mode then you will find that they will step on the gas, by cutting interest rates, inject monetary liquidity into the economy and jump start things. They have the ability to do that with high rates, and budget deficits in decline and ahead of schedule. I believe any downturn should it come will be a very shallow one. The current job market will meander along until this is decided.




Recession / or soft landing might be there. We have a bubble bursting
(real estate and mortgage). Nobody in 2000 predicted how severe
(jobless) that recession would be.

Last time they reduced interest rate...to kick start the economy
however the inflation was low.
Now inflation is high (because of loose monetory policies
of greenspan ...owering interest)

Greenspan quietly ran away as this bubble was bursting.
Now with this downturn...if Bernanke reduces interest rates
the dollar will collapse and we will see hiperinflation.

Thats why they are now not able to reduce interest rates
(read last feb meeting minutes where they even talked of increasing interest rates to control inflation)

greatguy
04-17-2007, 10:52 AM
I feel, the current dull job market is not cyclical; it is more structural and therefore serious.

Cyclical unemployment would go away as it did in 2003. What is happening now is structural, meaning, the nature of jobs that are in demand are changing. The entire spectrum of development related skillset has surplus resources (other than select few things like SAP); no new breakthrough technologies are in the offing; learning new tools are become easier, alternatives are available (outsourcing) and the mystique of IT department has gone. In other words, IT has gotten commoditized, you can buy them like salt and pepper.

Demand is increasing for vertical skillset jobs (like analysts with domain specialization). In my company, in the midst of layoff, they increased the hourly rate by 10 dollars for someone with great domain knowledge and simultaneouly cut 25 dollars for a developer.

The right thing for a career conscious person is to focus on upgrading domain specific knowledge. Maybe, a good thread could be to discuss on how to do this.

chanduv23
04-17-2007, 11:08 AM
I feel, the current dull job market is not cyclical; it is more structural and therefore serious.

Cyclical unemployment would go away as it did in 2003. What is happening now is structural, meaning, the nature of jobs that are in demand are changing. The entire spectrum of development related skillset has surplus resources (other than select few things like SAP); no new breakthrough technologies are in the offing; learning new tools are become easier, alternatives are available (outsourcing) and the mystique of IT department has gone. In other words, IT has gotten commoditized, you can buy them like salt and pepper.

Demand is increasing for vertical skillset jobs (like analysts with domain specialization). In my company, in the midst of layoff, they increased the hourly rate by 10 dollars for someone with great domain knowledge and simultaneouly cut 25 dollars for a developer.

The right thing for a career conscious person is to focus on upgrading domain specific knowledge. Maybe, a good thread could be to discuss on how to do this.

Thats what I noticed. A Mr Know All is what the industry seems to want. It will be challenging time for freshers who are entering the market.

Being domain specific and varied experience always helps you keep job and also look for new jobs in this changing cycle.

Outsourcing cannot be reversed and people must realize that.

sam_hoosier
04-17-2007, 01:23 PM
Did anybody notice that suddenly, job market is not doing that good lately? I am noticing that hourly rate is declining and market is flooded with resumes. I am not sure about all over US but this is happening in DC Metro area. Can somebdy conform this if he/she is in job market right now?

Are you jst talking about IT jobs ? Because management/finance/accounting jobs are still plenty.