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View Full Version : US High Tech Industry(ITAA) Against CIR Bill - Can IV work with ITAA


lj_rr
05-28-2007, 02:24 AM
News article from Sify below.
Can IV work with ITAA(a lobbying group representing high-tech companies) to lobby our cause too.



http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14459414

Silicon Valley: The high-tech industry in the US has opposed the immigration bill being debated in the Senate, saying the measure as currently drafted would harm the American technology industry.

The Information Technology Association of America (ITAA), a lobbying group representing high-tech companies, says the bill won't do enough to compensate for a shortage of skilled workers and will make it more difficult to hire qualified people from overseas.

In a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, ITAA President and CEO, Phillip J Bond, said America's economy is strong and vibrant, but the country's future competitiveness rests on the ability of firms to recruit globally.

"As you know, the H-1B cap for FY '08 was reached in April, shutting out US employers from recruiting highly skilled foreign nationals who are graduating from US institutions with degrees in computer science, engineering, mathematics and other scientific and technical fields.

"Vacancies go unfilled and highly valued workers are forced to leave the country. Even worse, significant shortages exist in the permanent resident visa (green card) programme," Bond said.

Jeff Lande, a senior vice-president at the ITAA said the industry wants more people to be able to come into the country to fill shortages.

"We also want more green cards because for many companies they want someone to come in here who can innovate for their companies work for their companies and who can transition to permanent status," Lande told the National Public Radio.

CADude
05-28-2007, 03:37 AM
GOOD ARTICLE FROM WP.COM EYE OPENING..

What ever we will do USCIS will never finish Backlog... THIS IS CALLED SCAM. :mad:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18899687/


We have to let congress know about this scam.

pappu
05-28-2007, 09:47 AM
GOOD ARTICLE FROM WP.COM EYE OPENING..

What ever we will do USCIS will never finish Backlog... THIS IS CALLED SCAM. :mad:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18899687/


We have to let congress know about this scam.
Each application could generate fines and fees of $1,000 to $5,000, a windfall of $10 billion to $15 billion over eight years, Homeland Security officials said. The money would dwarf revenue from a previously announced agency plan to increase fees on immigration and employment applications by 50 percent as early as next week, to raise $1 billion a year.

pappu
05-28-2007, 09:51 AM
"As backlogs and deficits grew, the agency ratcheted up charges to cover its budget. The longer applicants waited, the more they paid."

"Leaders of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services rejected key changes because ending huge immigration backlogs nationwide would rob the agency of application and renewal fees that cover 20 percent of its $1.8 billion budget"

ARUNRAMANATHAN
05-28-2007, 10:03 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/27/AR2007052701118.html?hpid=topnews&sub=AR

Quite the same text in WP ...MSNBC has used WP text.

ARUNRAMANATHAN
05-28-2007, 10:08 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/26/AR2007052601086_2.html


text:
The plan is already generating alarm among immigrant groups. "People who have come to this country worked hard, they have become U.S. citizens -- their first goal is to bring in their loved ones," said Nazanin Nasri, an immigration lawyer in Arlington who has many Iranian and Afghan clients. "They will be destroyed."

Kevin Appleby, director of migration and immigration policy for the organization of Catholic bishops, said the new system "ignores the fact that immigrant families have helped build this nation. Families start businesses, keep their members from government dependency and invest their energy in their new land."

Doris Meissner, director of the Immigration and Naturalization Service under President Bill Clinton, said the point system is being proposed with inadequate analysis. "I was amazed when I saw it because it hasn't really been talked about," she said. "There's been no ground laid for this whatsoever. Point systems are known in other countries, and there is certainly a body of written material on it, but it hasn't had any careful research.

"It may be a good idea," she added, "but there isn't any evidence to argue one way or the other."

lost_in_migration
05-28-2007, 11:22 AM
Good find !! After reading this article, I guess, USCIS would well support our demand for filing I-485 when PDs not current as it will give them more $$$ from EAD and AP extensions.

GOOD ARTICLE FROM WP.COM EYE OPENING..

What ever we will do USCIS will never finish Backlog... THIS IS CALLED SCAM. :mad:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18899687/


We have to let congress know about this scam.

CADude
05-28-2007, 02:26 PM
I oppose the Senate immigration deal in current form.

Immigration Reform unfair to the legal high-skilled. Legal First

We are always told, “Break the law, and you will be in trouble”. But, the recent “Immigration Reform Grand bargain” proposes to send a message that is precisely the opposite.

We are being told that no undocumented immigrant will get ahead of those in backlog. While the backlog of Family-based petitions has been highly publicized, the petitions of individuals (engineers, scientists, doctors and other professionals) are being left in legal and bureaucratic limbo. About half-a-million highly qualified professionals and their families have put their faith in the legal immigration system and due process of the United States, while working to enhance the US economy. These people have pending petitions either with the Department of Labor, or with the CIS, the final adjudication of which will enable them to work with a US employer, with consequent ripple effect on the US economy.

In the old system, employment-based petitions were limited to 140,000 per year, but the proposed system, ‘in order to reduce backlog’, reduces them to 90,000 per year only! On the contrary, Family-based cases used to be limited to similar numbers, but now have been increased to 567,000 per year! In addition, close to100,000 of these applicants with pending petitions are being asked to start from scratch in the new system. In effect, it is similar to changing the ‘rules’ or rather, the ‘Laws’ after the fact! Innocent high-skilled prospective immigrants are being penalized due to bureaucratic delay in the DOL.

Highly skilled doctors, scientists, engineers, and computer professionals have been stuck in backlogs since the last 3-4 years. They had hoped to get relief from the “Immigration Reform”, but have been let down badly. They are being forced to renew their H-1Bs yearly now, while the old system allowed 3-yr incremental renewals while their Green Card petition was pending. Seems like a fitting reward for following the Laws, isn’t it?

Per washintonpost report, USCIS on purpose delays the process and keep backlog to earn the extension and renewal fee as 20% of their budget. THIS IS CALLED SCAM.

Your attention and help requested on the matter.

CADude
05-28-2007, 02:42 PM
Sent thank you message to author Spencer Hsu for great work.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/27/AR2007052701118.html?hpid=topnews&sub=AR

Quite the same text in WP ...MSNBC has used WP text.

rajeshraipv
05-28-2007, 03:18 PM
does anyone know if we have a legal recourse for this? seems like a proper scam perpetrated by bureaucrats too lazy to do their job...

bigboy007
05-28-2007, 03:48 PM
CAdude , Your efforts greatly appreciated. But how come 100,000 Applicants are being applied again for New merit system ? Is it becoz they are looking for all current Labor petetions being not approved ? as current legislation says I140's pending or approved as of May 21 2007 continue in current system . Please advice.

stuckinmuck
05-28-2007, 03:56 PM
Hi,
I found this interesting comment from a blog. It has been posted by an H.R. representative who has access to H1B and GC users' records. The points raised are indeed valid and they seem to have a 'case' against us. I do not by any means want to undermine our efforts but it does provide a perspective from the 'citizens' perspective.

The bill would also drastically increase the number of H-1B visas issued to foreign professional workers. As a Human Resources representative, I see first hand how the H-1B visa and employment based green card programs actually work together to drive U.S. white collar workers from their jobs and even from their careers. To begin with, there is virtually nothing in the law that prevents employers from hiring H-1Bers for open positions even if qualified Americans are available and willing to do the work. Americans are routinely laid off and replaced with lower paid H-1Bers also. In these cases, Americans have practically no legal recourse available under current law. H-1B is also a dual intent visa, so an employer may sponsor an H-1Ber for an EB green card for legal permanent resident status. When a company seeks to sponsor a foreign worker for an EB green card, they are required by law to demonstrate a good faith effort to recruit Americans first. This process is called labor certification. But employers routinely game the labor certification process for green card sponsorship to defraud even well qualified citizen job applicants in favor of low wage foreigners. They use fake job ads and/or bad faith interviews of American citizens to convince the federal government that they tried to find American workers first. These practices are common in high tech and even in some non-tech industries, but HR people are told to keep quiet about it or lose their jobs.

I would be in favor of a program that issues a small number of self-sponsoring green cards for truly innovative foreign nationals on a competitive basis. But very few of the H-1Bers or green card applicants that I have seen in 10+ years even come close to being truly innovative. Most are just practitioners with skills that are actually quite common among the domestic workforce. The only thing special about these foreigners is that they will work for substantially less than Americans in order to have a chance to become legal permanent residents. Thus they are used by management to sweeten corporate balance sheets.

The prevailing wage regulations are supposed to insure that foreign nationals are paid the same as their American counterparts in the same job functions, but these regulations are so riddled with loopholes that they are a bad joke.

Since my work allows me to have access to salary records, I can tell you that the labor cost savings for H-1Bers and green card applicants is substantially greater than the costs of filing the applications with the government.

Citizens should demand that both the H-1B and employment based green card programs be abolished in their current form.

My point is if we check our credentials, how many of us are 'true' innovators? I know I am not, I am an expert in what I do and am an asset to my company but I haven't filed any patents or publications which would be the true requirement for this country. My skills are indeed readily available in domestic workers as well. Could that be the reason for the backlog in EB-3 and none in EB-1? So do we need to do a reality check here? Just wondering if this could be the reason why we're getting a raw deal. Could it be that 'highly skilled' is not enough but 'genius' and 'highly skilled' is what's required here? Just a thought.

bigboy007
05-28-2007, 04:09 PM
Good point , Yes we need to give our response to it. but neither H1B says its only for INNOVATORS rather it says only SKILLED workers. Not even every PhD is innovator . May be in some circumstances the so said perspective is true but i dont agree with every point.

I work in a comp where mostly they have GC or Citz and in some cases they waited even 2 months + and then decided to take H1b's.

There are no enough Americans who can do the Job if these guys think its H1B and remove H1B every Job will land as an outsourcing . If not h1B many Outsourcing IT firms will find some way to temp bring IT pros and eventually outsource.

The Key point that IV is making is how much taxes we are paying and how good we are making to American economy. If they remove H1B ,then they understand how and what they have lost.

truthinspector
05-28-2007, 04:11 PM
My point is if we check our credentials, how many of us are 'true' innovators? I know I am not, I am an expert in what I do and am an asset to my company but I haven't filed any patents or publications which would be the true requirement for this country. My skills are indeed readily available in domestic workers as well. Could that be the reason for the backlog in EB-3 and none in EB-1? So do we need to do a reality check here? Just wondering if this could be the reason why we're getting a raw deal. Could it be that 'highly skilled' is not enough but 'genius' and 'highly skilled' is what's required here? Just a thought.

I sit next to am all American worker who has 30 years of experience, has 3 master's degrees and claims some major achievements in his technical life. Facts: I had to set his browser's proxy multiple times so that he could connect to the internet. He does not have 1% of the skills he claims and the word is out that he will be laid off next week. Although I am sure he has a membership of Programmer's Guild and IEEE and all that (he wears soda glasses , and it really makes him look brilliant). The point is , cases such as these make our presence here viable.
I have more examples of such geniuses I have seen over past 10 years.
It is not a secret that all of us are not innovators.However one must accept that there is a shortage of people who can run these operations.In my professional life , I have not seen a skilled American unemployed. Financial reasons may force a business to lay off a good worker. However, if you are good , you get a job instantly.
I am lucky to be working at a place where your skills are more important than your nationality.

vivekm1309
05-28-2007, 04:13 PM
Good point , but neither H1B says its only for INNOVATORS rather it says only SKILLED workers. Not even every PhD is innovator . May be in some circumstances the so said perspective is true but i dont agree with every point.

There are no enough Americans who can do the Job if you guys think its H1B and remove H1B every Job will land as an outsourcing . If not h1B many Outsourcing IT firms will find some way to temp bring IT pros and eventually outsource.

The Key point that IV is making is how much taxes we are paying and how good we are making to American economy. If they remove H1B ,then they understand how and what they have lost.

Good points, only thing to add is not all innovations can be brought to notice to relate to a sinle employee ...most of the times we as employees are part of systemic effort that is innovating. It would be wrong to say that H1-bs are not contributing towards innovation anymore.

caydee
05-28-2007, 05:51 PM
I am amazed by the effect the writer has had on stuckinmuck. More amazing is the fact that the writer validates his own point by claiming that he is with HR. Wonder how many real HR professionals reveal their company secrets.

Hi,
........... My point is if we check our credentials, how many of us are 'true' innovators? I know I am not, I am an expert in what I do and am an asset to my company but I haven't filed any patents or publications which would be the true requirement for this country. My skills are indeed readily available in domestic workers as well. Could that be the reason for the backlog in EB-3 and none in EB-1? So do we need to do a reality check here? Just wondering if this could be the reason why we're getting a raw deal. Could it be that 'highly skilled' is not enough but 'genius' and 'highly skilled' is what's required here? Just a thought.

caydee
05-28-2007, 05:57 PM
Good points, only thing to add is not all innovations can be brought to notice to relate to a single employee ...most of the times we as employees are part of systemic effort that is innovating. It would be wrong to say that H1-bs are not contributing towards innovation ........

Good point. Very rarely can an invention be attributed to a single person. These days it is invariably a group effort.

By the way, why are we deviating?

senthil1
05-28-2007, 06:49 PM
It is not the case that when the reduce H1b they need to outsource. Can any statitics tell that last 3 years H1b cap reached but because of that Outsourcing is done or US lost Compettiveness because there is no skilled workers. No evidence proves that. Still US only is having most technology companies.

If US lose 12 million illegals that will cause a problem for employers. But if 50% of H1b people leave the country because of green card issues then same or more number of people will enter by H1 or L1 or b1. That is the reason Skil bill was not able to pass in the Senate based on the fact that some abuses are in H1b. Skill bill can be delayed 5 years but impact will be less for the country. But impact will be more for immigrants. Also now H1b can be extended unlimited number of times when I140 is cleared. So really exodus will be very less compared to incoming persons. So there is no compelling reason for the country to increase gc. But for illegals there is compelling reason to act on them because illegal immigration will go uncontrolled if they leave as it is.



Good point , Yes we need to give our response to it. but neither H1B says its only for INNOVATORS rather it says only SKILLED workers. Not even every PhD is innovator . May be in some circumstances the so said perspective is true but i dont agree with every point.

I work in a comp where mostly they have GC or Citz and in some cases they waited even 2 months + and then decided to take H1b's.

There are no enough Americans who can do the Job if these guys think its H1B and remove H1B every Job will land as an outsourcing . If not h1B many Outsourcing IT firms will find some way to temp bring IT pros and eventually outsource.

The Key point that IV is making is how much taxes we are paying and how good we are making to American economy. If they remove H1B ,then they understand how and what they have lost.

eb2waiter
05-28-2007, 07:16 PM
You should rather analyze how many people from India made innovations like starting a company, a technology, patenting a process etc, on H1B versus on GC?.

Innovation starts when slavery ends. Free thinking and ideas arise often even on H1B, but people can easily act on them when not having to worry about getting kicked out of the country. For your information there are a LOT of companies (and patents) started by Indians who have made it big here. Most of them came on H1B. Similarly there are a lot of companies in the tech area that are starting up in India.

Again best and brightest does not mean innovation and patents alone. It can also refer to the ability to solve existing problems, design processes that need not be patentable.

Hi,
I found this interesting comment from a blog. It has been posted by an H.R. representative who has access to H1B and GC users' records. The points raised are indeed valid and they seem to have a 'case' against us. I do not by any means want to undermine our efforts but it does provide a perspective from the 'citizens' perspective.

The bill would also drastically increase the number of H-1B visas issued to foreign professional workers. As a Human Resources representative, I see first hand how the H-1B visa and employment based green card programs actually work together to drive U.S. white collar workers from their jobs and even from their careers. To begin with, there is virtually nothing in the law that prevents employers from hiring H-1Bers for open positions even if qualified Americans are available and willing to do the work. Americans are routinely laid off and replaced with lower paid H-1Bers also. In these cases, Americans have practically no legal recourse available under current law. H-1B is also a dual intent visa, so an employer may sponsor an H-1Ber for an EB green card for legal permanent resident status. When a company seeks to sponsor a foreign worker for an EB green card, they are required by law to demonstrate a good faith effort to recruit Americans first. This process is called labor certification. But employers routinely game the labor certification process for green card sponsorship to defraud even well qualified citizen job applicants in favor of low wage foreigners. They use fake job ads and/or bad faith interviews of American citizens to convince the federal government that they tried to find American workers first. These practices are common in high tech and even in some non-tech industries, but HR people are told to keep quiet about it or lose their jobs.

I would be in favor of a program that issues a small number of self-sponsoring green cards for truly innovative foreign nationals on a competitive basis. But very few of the H-1Bers or green card applicants that I have seen in 10+ years even come close to being truly innovative. Most are just practitioners with skills that are actually quite common among the domestic workforce. The only thing special about these foreigners is that they will work for substantially less than Americans in order to have a chance to become legal permanent residents. Thus they are used by management to sweeten corporate balance sheets.

The prevailing wage regulations are supposed to insure that foreign nationals are paid the same as their American counterparts in the same job functions, but these regulations are so riddled with loopholes that they are a bad joke.

Since my work allows me to have access to salary records, I can tell you that the labor cost savings for H-1Bers and green card applicants is substantially greater than the costs of filing the applications with the government.

Citizens should demand that both the H-1B and employment based green card programs be abolished in their current form.

My point is if we check our credentials, how many of us are 'true' innovators? I know I am not, I am an expert in what I do and am an asset to my company but I haven't filed any patents or publications which would be the true requirement for this country. My skills are indeed readily available in domestic workers as well. Could that be the reason for the backlog in EB-3 and none in EB-1? So do we need to do a reality check here? Just wondering if this could be the reason why we're getting a raw deal. Could it be that 'highly skilled' is not enough but 'genius' and 'highly skilled' is what's required here? Just a thought.

sriramkalyan
05-28-2007, 07:26 PM
It is getting clear now why Legal Backlogs are not touched in this present Bill.
Because Home Land Security Dep budgets depend on them..If backlogs are gone .. Budget is gone ...

So our backlogged cases will not get relief ..Looks like this will remain unfair reality

senthil1
05-28-2007, 07:39 PM
They use fake job ads and/or bad faith interviews of American citizens to convince the federal government that they tried to find American workers first.

I had similar experience in one of my previous consulting companies when I was in bench. Also I was asked to conduct this kind of interview in Week ends. I did reluctantly and I knew the feelings of those persons who were interviewed. I think many Indian companies are doing those mainly for green card processing.

H1b is not needed for certain kind of jobs like QA, repeated works and minor programming works(Many jobs are like that). I can very well say that atleast 50% of high tech jobs can be very well done by American citizens. This fact is known by Indian companies also. In my project most of them are American citizens and their skills for far better than many H1b persons.

In one financial company in Bay Area CA they laid of 200 persons and they gave the project to Indian Company in 2006 in which 30% are here(h1b and L1) and remaining in India(offshore). They could have kept 30% of their employees and remaining they could have outsourced. But Company wanted cost savings also. These kind of incidents will increase hate for H1b program



Hi,
I found this interesting comment from a blog. It has been posted by an H.R. representative who has access to H1B and GC users' records. The points raised are indeed valid and they seem to have a 'case' against us. I do not by any means want to undermine our efforts but it does provide a perspective from the 'citizens' perspective.

The bill would also drastically increase the number of H-1B visas issued to foreign professional workers. As a Human Resources representative, I see first hand how the H-1B visa and employment based green card programs actually work together to drive U.S. white collar workers from their jobs and even from their careers. To begin with, there is virtually nothing in the law that prevents employers from hiring H-1Bers for open positions even if qualified Americans are available and willing to do the work. Americans are routinely laid off and replaced with lower paid H-1Bers also. In these cases, Americans have practically no legal recourse available under current law. H-1B is also a dual intent visa, so an employer may sponsor an H-1Ber for an EB green card for legal permanent resident status. When a company seeks to sponsor a foreign worker for an EB green card, they are required by law to demonstrate a good faith effort to recruit Americans first. This process is called labor certification. But employers routinely game the labor certification process for green card sponsorship to defraud even well qualified citizen job applicants in favor of low wage foreigners. They use fake job ads and/or bad faith interviews of American citizens to convince the federal government that they tried to find American workers first. These practices are common in high tech and even in some non-tech industries, but HR people are told to keep quiet about it or lose their jobs.

I would be in favor of a program that issues a small number of self-sponsoring green cards for truly innovative foreign nationals on a competitive basis. But very few of the H-1Bers or green card applicants that I have seen in 10+ years even come close to being truly innovative. Most are just practitioners with skills that are actually quite common among the domestic workforce. The only thing special about these foreigners is that they will work for substantially less than Americans in order to have a chance to become legal permanent residents. Thus they are used by management to sweeten corporate balance sheets.

The prevailing wage regulations are supposed to insure that foreign nationals are paid the same as their American counterparts in the same job functions, but these regulations are so riddled with loopholes that they are a bad joke.

Since my work allows me to have access to salary records, I can tell you that the labor cost savings for H-1Bers and green card applicants is substantially greater than the costs of filing the applications with the government.

Citizens should demand that both the H-1B and employment based green card programs be abolished in their current form.

My point is if we check our credentials, how many of us are 'true' innovators? I know I am not, I am an expert in what I do and am an asset to my company but I haven't filed any patents or publications which would be the true requirement for this country. My skills are indeed readily available in domestic workers as well. Could that be the reason for the backlog in EB-3 and none in EB-1? So do we need to do a reality check here? Just wondering if this could be the reason why we're getting a raw deal. Could it be that 'highly skilled' is not enough but 'genius' and 'highly skilled' is what's required here? Just a thought.

GC08
05-28-2007, 07:44 PM
It is getting clear now why Legal Backlogs are not touched in this present Bill.
Because Home Land Security Dep budgets depend on them..If backlogs are gone .. Budget is gone ...

So our backlogged cases will not get relief ..Looks like this will remain unfair reality

This is so outrageous! :mad:

What can legals do then to change the situation? :confused:

bigboy007
05-28-2007, 07:58 PM
Your point is very much valid, But ok lets for a min assume H1b is eliminated completely. Do you think these big IT firms or even small consulting firms stop doing their business ? No. if not H1B there will be other way bringing ppl for short term. they will be some other way to do it. H1B is not designed keeping us in mind its designed keeping US Citizen employers in mind. and also it is adding to USCIS revenues. if you see even in current fiscal year i have seen all of my friends who did premium got thier H1b approvals.

The reason i said H1B outsourcing will start is most H1's are held by Big IT firms of India. If they do some thing that will hurt it they will do something else or reduce onsite avail or make it short term there will be some other workaround but no way these jobs will go back to americans.

Key point we have to argue and keep on doing it is the fact that , drawing a comparison between us and illegals. Even illegals have marched on streets and expressed their concern of not leaving USA if so why we paying millions of taxes adding source to housing market and GC in a valid stage , should ever even think of losing it ?

Exploitation is there everywhere. Illegals are being legalized for US employers but this will have disastrous consequences. Now with illegals only working behind the hood and will come out and did these americans ever thought of what will happen to all the ppl who work in restaurants etc and their wages. Yes all desi companies does the same thing becoz thats the only they can be in business. If you see many reasons why corp america is against merit based sys is there is no way its associating it with TIE-UP of h1b with them.

I dont know about others but saying 50% of h1b can be done by americans is lot easier to say rather make them work like that. I 100% validate your point as every system has its pros and cons. I would say rather 30% only.

But key point is we are already here . We are in the process of GC and its the key point that is to shed away ppl who are trying to shut doors. Corp america will some how take care of H1B i think [ even though its part of our resp] but key point is GC .. Eliminate or atleast reduce backlog to atleast where it was.

when it comes to laying off , many companies have laid off in 2000-01 , some are unlucky and most americans becoz of reducing fat in the company there used to be lot of benefits everything got screwed up . But rather they again started hiring but not left and right as they did earlier but very calculated decision. I am talking about Big comp not consulting. Consulting is mere consulting they wont bare the costs of H1b if they are bench more than 3 months even big 5 consulting .

GCBy3000
05-28-2007, 07:59 PM
Simple. COntribute to IV and work as a team. Are you ready?
This is so outrageous! :mad:

What can legals do then to change the situation? :confused:

thomachan72
05-29-2007, 08:20 AM
Hi,
I found this interesting comment from a blog. It has been posted by an H.R. representative who has access to H1B and GC users' records. The points raised are indeed valid and they seem to have a 'case' against us. I do not by any means want to undermine our efforts but it does provide a perspective from the 'citizens' perspective.

The bill would also drastically increase the number of H-1B visas issued to foreign professional workers. As a Human Resources representative, I see first hand how the H-1B visa and employment based green card programs actually work together to drive U.S. white collar workers from their jobs and even from their careers. To begin with, there is virtually nothing in the law that prevents employers from hiring H-1Bers for open positions even if qualified Americans are available and willing to do the work. Americans are routinely laid off and replaced with lower paid H-1Bers also. In these cases, Americans have practically no legal recourse available under current law. H-1B is also a dual intent visa, so an employer may sponsor an H-1Ber for an EB green card for legal permanent resident status. When a company seeks to sponsor a foreign worker for an EB green card, they are required by law to demonstrate a good faith effort to recruit Americans first. This process is called labor certification. But employers routinely game the labor certification process for green card sponsorship to defraud even well qualified citizen job applicants in favor of low wage foreigners. They use fake job ads and/or bad faith interviews of American citizens to convince the federal government that they tried to find American workers first. These practices are common in high tech and even in some non-tech industries, but HR people are told to keep quiet about it or lose their jobs.

I would be in favor of a program that issues a small number of self-sponsoring green cards for truly innovative foreign nationals on a competitive basis. But very few of the H-1Bers or green card applicants that I have seen in 10+ years even come close to being truly innovative. Most are just practitioners with skills that are actually quite common among the domestic workforce. The only thing special about these foreigners is that they will work for substantially less than Americans in order to have a chance to become legal permanent residents. Thus they are used by management to sweeten corporate balance sheets.

The prevailing wage regulations are supposed to insure that foreign nationals are paid the same as their American counterparts in the same job functions, but these regulations are so riddled with loopholes that they are a bad joke.

Since my work allows me to have access to salary records, I can tell you that the labor cost savings for H-1Bers and green card applicants is substantially greater than the costs of filing the applications with the government.

Citizens should demand that both the H-1B and employment based green card programs be abolished in their current form.

My point is if we check our credentials, how many of us are 'true' innovators? I know I am not, I am an expert in what I do and am an asset to my company but I haven't filed any patents or publications which would be the true requirement for this country. My skills are indeed readily available in domestic workers as well. Could that be the reason for the backlog in EB-3 and none in EB-1? So do we need to do a reality check here? Just wondering if this could be the reason why we're getting a raw deal. Could it be that 'highly skilled' is not enough but 'genius' and 'highly skilled' is what's required here? Just a thought.
Dont blame you for being concerned after reading this post. We at IV dont disagree that there are a few instances where infact below average skilled people are employed on H1bs. However, look around a little, talk to fellow foreigners (Indians/others) whom you meet somewhere and you will realize that they dont just supply cheap labor OK. They are indeed very qualified for the job they are put into. I know for example the job that I do CAN be done by an american citizen without any problem (if he /she is trained) but the fact is that, there is NOBODY around. REALLY there is nobody around. Now reg software, many of my software friends are highly talented individuals (not inovative in the sense you mean) without whom the industry will COLLAPSE and your HR person will have nobody to hire because he/she will have to go home. Remember also the fact that IT industry is now at a slowly developing phase and they need people to work for lower wages and cant survive to fill in all slots with the american worker who will want more money for lesser work time and that proves the HR persons point--work for lesser money (THAT INFACT IS THE MAJOR REQ FOR IT INDUSTRY AT PRESENT)

badluck
05-29-2007, 08:46 AM
Each application could generate fines and fees of $1,000 to $5,000, a windfall of $10 billion to $15 billion over eight years, Homeland Security officials said. The money would dwarf revenue from a previously announced agency plan to increase fees on immigration and employment applications by 50 percent as early as next week, to raise $1 billion a year.
What are you saying it is a SCAM.....

dpp
05-29-2007, 09:44 AM
Solution is give away GCs to all pending labours/140s/485s. Then nobody works for lesser wage and so we can equally compete with US citizens. They created this mess and so their fellow citizens are facing the problems.

Also, all anti-immigrants are publishig the wages mentioned in H1B LCA's when comparing the salaries with US Citizens. But thats the wrong approach. Employers always mention the minimum wage that can be given in LCA while applying for H1. But the actual salary is always more than that 90% of times. So, these anti-immigrants don't know that actual salaries paid to H1B employess are far better or equal to salaries given to them. So, thats what they are crying. Also, they are crying because of they are not able to copeup with the technology changes and compete with us. Employers put the minimum allowed wage because of avioding high-pay when the employee is not productive or not on project. So that they can pay the minimum wage as per rules.

If there is a free flow of immigrants, why the wages will go down? These are all because of corruption at govt side. So, do not blame H1Bs. They came here all the way crossing thousands of miles, leaving their parents and in-laws for the sake of getting better life. This happens everywhere and everytime.

Also, when we say immigration system is broken, it doesn't mean that it is completely broken and replace with a new system. Just increase the EB and FB caps and per-country limits. thats it. It solves the problem. Do not revamp whole system. Existing system is fine and only thing is not enough visas available as per demand. So, solve problem by correcting it. We need to convey this to senators.

Finally, there will be flaws in any system. With that some people has to suffer. But if majority of them doing better and contributing to the economy, that will be good. Do not care for those few people, and destroy the lifes of majority of people.

God bless america.

sriramkalyan
05-29-2007, 10:10 AM
Since USA home land Security depends on Legal immigrants bondage and slavery .. ..I mean fees they pay to stay in this country .. Amendment to File I-485 with out Visa being Current should pass easily. That way EAD reneavals will keep USA Govt running ..

vinabath
05-29-2007, 01:58 PM
I am very happy for India.

1.Now most of the work that is being done here by H-1B professionals will be done in India.
2.Innovations will be made in India. As more money is available for the companies to pump in to R&D
3.Indian IT infrastructure will improve.

I am not so happy for USA.

1. They are doing a big mistake on immigration. They do not have enough resources with right skill set.


I am not so happy for myself.

1. I am disappointed by the fact that USA is going in the wrong direction.

vinabath
05-29-2007, 02:03 PM
To the best of my knowledge they make good money. I personally know so many examples where H-1s make more money than US citizens. Only exception would be the ones who are fulltime in Infosys type companies.