Immigration Voice - Forums
Register Get Involved Contact Lawmakers Advocacy Discussion Image Image Image Image

Go Back   Immigration Voice > Ask an Attorney - > Non-Immigrant Visa
Click to log in with Facebook
Non-Immigrant Visa This forum is for asking questions from Immigration Attorney.
--------------------------------------------
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:
--------------------------------------------
By participating in this forum or reviewing or reading a transcript or recording of any forum discussion or conference call, you agree that you have read and understand the following disclaimer:
The information provided in this forum as well as any transcripts or recordings posted on this website or websites of participating law firms or attorneys is of a general nature and may not apply to any particular set of facts or to all circumstances. It should not be construed as legal advice and does not constitute an engagement of any participating attorneys or in any way establish an attorney-client relationship with any participating attorneys. You should not rely solely upon information that you may receive during any conference calls, or any transcripts or recordings of conference calls. You should consult an attorney of your choosing to obtain advice for your particular situation. Laws and regulations are constantly changing. The information provided during any conference calls and their transcripts or recordings was pertinent at the time of the conference calls, but may become outdated. We are not responsible in any way for any outdated materials.
IN NO EVENT SHALL ANY PARTICIPATING ATTORNEYS, LAW FIRMS, INDIVIDUALS, OR IMMIGRATION VOICE BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, PUNITIVE, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH PARTICIPATION IN ANY CONFERENCE CALLS, THE USE OF THIS WEBSITE, OR ANY OTHER WEBSITE WHERE TRANSCRIPTS OR RECORDINGS MAY BE POSTED, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SUCH DAMAGES ARISE OUT OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2010, 11:36 PM
Member
Priority Date
:
Category
:
N/A
I140 Mailed Date
:
Chargeability
:
Processing Stage
:
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 80
h1bnogc will become famous soon enough h1bnogc will become famous soon enough
Default H1B RFE Urgent Help needed

Hi Attorney and Gurus

Thanks for taking time for reading and responding this posting.

Applied for H1B extension without end-client letter, working for consulting company. Following documents submitted:

Timesheet
Vendor Letter
Email from Manager - not able to issue letter

RFE is asking for following documents:

You may submit any and all evidence you feel would meet the employer-employee requirement:

1. Copy of relevant portion of valid contract between you and a client that establishes that while your employees are placed at the third party work site, you will continue to have the right to control.

2. Copies of singed contractual agreements, SOW, work orders, service agreements and letters between you and the authorized officials of the ultimate end-client companies where the will actually be performed by the beneficiary, which provide information such as a detailed description of the duties the beneficiary will perform, the qualification the are required to perform the job duties,salary and wage paid, hours worked, benefits, a brief description of who will supervise the beneficiary and their duties and any other related evidence.

3. copy of position description or any other documentation that describes the skills required to perform job offered, the source of the instrumentality and tools need to perform the job, the product to be developed or the service to be provided, the location where the beneficiary will perform the duties, the duration of the relationship between you and beneficiary, whether you have the right to assign additional duties, the extent of your discretion over when and how long the beneficiary will work, the method of payment, your role in paying and hiring assistants to be utilized by the beneficiary, whether the work to be performed is part of your regular business, the provision of employee benefits and the tax treatment of the beneficiary in relation to you.

4. A description of the performance review process and / or

5. Copy of your organization chart, demonstrating beneficiary's supervisor chain.

I am wondering which documents I need to submit for item 1 to 3.

I believe for item 1: End Client Letter
item 2: Master Service Agreement between Vendor and end client, Purchase Order/SOW between Vendor and end client

item 3:End Client Letter.

I will not get end client letter and vendor is not ready to give MSA because of being confidential in nature. Please please provide your comment and suggestion....Many many thanks!
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:21 AM
Donor
Priority Date
:
Dec-07
Category
:
EB2
I140 Mailed Date
:
03/30/2008
Chargeability
:
India
Processing Stage
:
I-140
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 232
pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by h1bnogc View Post
....
I am wondering which documents I need to submit for item 1 to 3.

I believe for item 1: End Client Letter
item 2: Master Service Agreement between Vendor and end client, Purchase Order/SOW between Vendor and end client

item 3:End Client Letter.

I will not get end client letter and vendor is not ready to give MSA because of being confidential in nature. Please please provide your comment and suggestion....Many many thanks!
1. Can you ask the vendor to give you the MSA in a sealed envelop only to be opened by USCIS. If not, then ask to send to your attorney. If not, then ask to send to USCIS directly.

2. Can you get the Purchase Order or Statement of Work between the vendor and the Client. Sometimes, the SOW reads like a letter and can be a supplement or substitute for the MSA.

I am not sure how you can address point #1 without the MSA (client letter may not even be enough since it asks for portions from a contract), so keep pressing the Vendor on the above options. Good luck.
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2010, 10:08 PM
Member
Priority Date
:
Category
:
N/A
I140 Mailed Date
:
Chargeability
:
Processing Stage
:
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 80
h1bnogc will become famous soon enough h1bnogc will become famous soon enough
Default H1B RFE Urgent Help needed

Thanks pbuckeye

Wondering...as RFE says "you may submit any and all evidence you fell would to prove employee-employer relationship."

In that case any document/letter describing employer and employee relation should be enough, no need of MSA or SOW or PO or end client letter...just a letter from vendor addressing issue of RFE... does not need to submit all documents mentioned in the RFE???.

Any suggestion or comment...many many thanks again
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2010, 10:07 AM
Donor
Priority Date
:
Dec-07
Category
:
EB2
I140 Mailed Date
:
03/30/2008
Chargeability
:
India
Processing Stage
:
I-140
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 232
pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute
Default

"any and all" may mean not everything on the list is "required" but the more evidence you provide, the better your chance of approval is.

Didn't you already submit a letter from the Vendor? You may draft another that's specific to the contents of the RFE but I still think you should provide some contract documents between all parties (Client-Vendor and Vendor-Employer). Be it PO, SOW or MSA.

In my opinion, their primary issue in approving a case is to verify that an actual contractual path exists from you to the ultimate end client. Employer - Employee related stuff is secondary.
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2010, 10:42 PM
Member
Priority Date
:
Category
:
N/A
I140 Mailed Date
:
Chargeability
:
Processing Stage
:
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 80
h1bnogc will become famous soon enough h1bnogc will become famous soon enough
Default H1B RFE Urgent Help needed

Thanks for your response again.

List of document requested is sample list of documents. This list of documents requests is for following:
---------------------------------------------------------------
USCIS must determine if you have right to control the employee through evidence that describes (with no one factor decisive or exhaustive)

-the skill required to perform the specialty occupation
-the location of work
-the duration of the relationship between you and the beneficiary
....

It is requested that you demonstrate an employer-employee relationship with the beneficiary through the right to control the manner and means by which the product or services are accomplished for duration of the requested H1B validity.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Important point over here appeared to be:
1: Right to control
2: Employee - Employer relationship (somewhat related to 1)
3. Specialty Occupation

USCIS wants to see those through end-client or vendor letter or SOW or PO. I still pushing for the same... Many many thanks for response.
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2010, 02:20 PM
cgs cgs is offline
Member
Priority Date
:
Oct-05
Category
:
EB2
I140 Mailed Date
:
10/01/2005
Chargeability
:
India
Processing Stage
:
N/A
I485 Mailed Date
:
09/02/2007
Compare
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 77
cgs is a jewel in the rough cgs is a jewel in the rough cgs is a jewel in the rough
Default

I am no expert. But I found this interesting, so writing my thoughts. The more I read into it, it is the employer who really needs to understand it and able to answer. A stronger company with good reputation is what makes the difference. I hope your case is being dealt by a good attorney.

1. Copy of relevant portion of valid contract between you and a client that establishes that while your employees are placed at the third party work site, you will continue to have the right to control.

Your employer and your employer’s client contract stating that your employer has the right to control. This document should be already present with your employer.
(a. this may be a vendor who places you at ultimate end-client where you perform daily duties [client and vendor are different entities]
b. ultimate end-client where you perform daily duties [client and vendor are same entities])

2. Copies of singed contractual agreements, SOW, work orders, service agreements and letters between you and the authorized officials of the ultimate end-client companies where the will actually be performed by the beneficiary, which provide information such as a detailed description of the duties the beneficiary will perform, the qualification the are required to perform the job duties,salary and wage paid, hours worked, benefits, a brief description of who will supervise the beneficiary and their duties and any other related evidence.

The employer needs to have direct communication with authorized officials of ultimate end-client. Employer basically knowing what employee is doing at ultimate ultimate end-client , so SOW, Work Orders, SA, letters, Mails exchanged between them. Probably including the wages paid, timesheet approvals by manger, appreciation emails from supervisor/co-workers. This is complicated if the ultimate end-client is different from vendor.

3. copy of position description or any other documentation that describes the skills required to perform job offered, the source of the instrumentality and tools need to perform the job, the product to be developed or the service to be provided, the location where the beneficiary will perform the duties, the duration of the relationship between you and beneficiary, whether you have the right to assign additional duties, the extent of your discretion over when and how long the beneficiary will work, the method of payment, your role in paying and hiring assistants to be utilized by the beneficiary, whether the work to be performed is part of your regular business, the provision of employee benefits and the tax treatment of the beneficiary in relation to you.

Probably employment letter, resume, tools, products used, services performed at ultimate end-client. Work location as mentioned in the contract. How long will be contract? The regular business hours the duties will be performed. Any 401, medical, leaves provided. Employer tax file documents.
So I think it is everything from employer and I am not seeing anything from client to be done newly. Yes, appreciation mails, recommendation letters from client/manger will help.


I am sure not of much help. Please talk to your employer / attorney and have a look at what is being sent as response. I think we have(h1b beneficiary) has very less to contribute in this. It is the employers responsibility.
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2010, 11:54 PM
Member
Priority Date
:
Category
:
N/A
I140 Mailed Date
:
Chargeability
:
Processing Stage
:
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 80
h1bnogc will become famous soon enough h1bnogc will become famous soon enough
Default H1B RFE Urgent Help needed

Thanks for your response.

I understand that it is employer responsibility to prove employee-employer relationship and right to control...however at the end it is beneficiery who will get affected.

Ultimate end client and vendor are different entities.

Praying to god and hoping for best at this point. Once again many many thanks
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2010, 01:29 PM
Member
Priority Date
:
Category
:
N/A
I140 Mailed Date
:
Chargeability
:
Processing Stage
:
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 80
h1bnogc will become famous soon enough h1bnogc will become famous soon enough
Default H1B RFE and Options

Out of desperation, I thinking about options if H1B extension get denied. my priority date is in 2007, which I am hoping to become current in next six months...big guess though

To maintain my status,
can I go to F2 based on my wife to go to F1 status so that when priority date become current, I can apply for AOS, of course start working on EAD?

Any issue see in this option,well this is last resort if nothing else works...

Many many thanks for your response
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2010, 10:11 AM
Donor
Priority Date
:
Dec-07
Category
:
EB2
I140 Mailed Date
:
03/30/2008
Chargeability
:
India
Processing Stage
:
I-140
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 232
pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by h1bnogc View Post
can I go to F2 based on my wife to go to F1 status so that when priority date become current, I can apply for AOS, of course start working on EAD?
If your I-140 has been applied/approved, you have already shown an "immigrant intent" and due to this, I doubt that you can change status to F1/F2. Verify this with a lawyer though.

Has your I-94 expired? If not, plan to file another application with a different company.

Were you able to get the MSA/SOW/PO?
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2010, 12:27 AM
Member
Priority Date
:
Category
:
N/A
I140 Mailed Date
:
Chargeability
:
Processing Stage
:
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 80
h1bnogc will become famous soon enough h1bnogc will become famous soon enough
Default H1B RFE Urgent Help needed Reply to Thread

I94 is not expired...I still try to get vendor document...very less chance

So getting prepared for worst scenario...switching to different company and different end client is tough one and it will have affect on my GC, new employer has to file new labor and port date for I140...starting from scratch

what is your opinion about same employer and different client, file H1B again? Do you see any issue in this optiop?

Once again many many thanks!
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2010, 05:28 PM
Donor
Priority Date
:
Dec-07
Category
:
EB2
I140 Mailed Date
:
03/30/2008
Chargeability
:
India
Processing Stage
:
I-140
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 232
pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute
Default

See my comments below. Most importantly, don't get overly stressed out. Just plan for all options and everything will be sorted out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by h1bnogc View Post
I94 is not expired...I still try to get vendor document...very less chance

Did you try the options I suggested earlier - asking the vendor to send the contract directly to USCIS, etc?

So getting prepared for worst scenario...switching to different company and different end client is tough one and it will have affect on my GC, new employer has to file new labor and port date for I140...starting from scratch

I understand. Its probably not worth it.

what is your opinion about same employer and different client, file H1B again? Do you see any issue in this optiop?

Should'nt be a problem as long as you can get the documents that you are not able to get in this case (with this client/vendor). I still think pushing the Vendor for the contract is the best shot you have.

Once again many many thanks!

Last edited by pbuckeye; 07-13-2010 at 05:34 PM.
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2010, 10:22 PM
Member
Priority Date
:
Category
:
N/A
I140 Mailed Date
:
Chargeability
:
Processing Stage
:
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 80
h1bnogc will become famous soon enough h1bnogc will become famous soon enough
Default H1B RFE Urgent Help needed Reply to Thread

Thanks for best wishes.

Look like f1/f2 is not an option.

Sending directly MSA alone to USCIS is very dangerous in sense that if one document receive in advance compared to entire response of RFE, USCIS potentially can process application only one document received

Told them to send it directly to my Attorney in the sealed envelop as you suggested earlier. Still they are stick to confidentiality of the document.

Looking response for anybody who got this kind of RFE, got approved without end-client letter and MSA.

Once again many many thanks for your response....
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2010, 10:06 AM
Donor
Priority Date
:
Dec-07
Category
:
EB2
I140 Mailed Date
:
03/30/2008
Chargeability
:
India
Processing Stage
:
I-140
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 232
pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute pbuckeye has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by h1bnogc View Post
Sending directly MSA alone to USCIS is very dangerous in sense that if one document receive in advance compared to entire response of RFE, USCIS potentially can process application only one document received
Not really. Your attorney can write a cover letter for your RFE reply that mentions that the Vendor will be sending the MSA directly to USCIS. I know this has been done successfully.

And don't assume anything without consulting your attorney.

Good luck.
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2010, 12:07 AM
Member
Priority Date
:
Category
:
N/A
I140 Mailed Date
:
Chargeability
:
Processing Stage
:
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 80
h1bnogc will become famous soon enough h1bnogc will become famous soon enough
Default H1B RFE Urgent Help - no end client letter and still approved ???anybody

Thanks again

Anybody out there who got RFE, provided response to RFE without end client letter/MSA, got it approved. Please share your experience...
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:09 AM
Member
Priority Date
:
Category
:
N/A
I140 Mailed Date
:
Chargeability
:
Processing Stage
:
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 80
h1bnogc will become famous soon enough h1bnogc will become famous soon enough
Default H1B RFE Urgent Help needed Reply to Thread

Hi There:

alone SOW between vendor and end-client will be enough ? or MSA and end client letter must for response to employer-employee relation and right to control issue?

Many many thanks!
Bookmark and Share Compare Reply With Quote


Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Urgent Help needed - H1 rr20 Immigrant Visa 22 05-21-2009 11:54 PM
I-485 rfe -- urgent help needed immig_b2_0609 Immigrant Visa 2 05-07-2009 06:57 PM
Urgent help needed h1bemployee Non-Immigrant Visa 17 02-26-2009 08:04 PM
URGENT/URGENT Help Needed pady AC21 Portability after 180 days of 485 filing 1 01-04-2009 01:42 AM
Urgent HELP needed... mzafar125 Sept 18th Rally: Car-pooling, Group Reservations for Air travel, hotel etc. 3 10-19-2008 04:34 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c)ImmigrationVoice.org