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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2010, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by number30 View Post
..., For India you need multiple documents even though you have OCI card with you. I was talking about this irony. I am not claiming Indian citizenship nor I am saying you do not need both U visa stamp and OCI card. All I was saying It does not make sense.
.....
Well, when you visit a country that requires visa, visitor must follow all the rules whether they make "sense" or not. If visitor should have 10 documents while visiting country xyz, and he/she is carrying only 9 documents, he/she is going to face difficulties at port of entry. That is just plain common sense.

In USA, for Port of entry on H-1B visa, do you know how many documents are needed?

OP was not carrying U visa stamp, and therefore faced problem. Instead of appreciating that authorities accommodated with temp visa, what are you saying is this -

Quote:
Originally Posted by number30 View Post
...But what I am saying is if someone has OCI or PIO card they must accept that document without looking U visa stamp. It is just redundant. ..
Who are you to say that they MUST accept OCI without U visa? You don't get to make rules, do you? At most, you could say *should*.

Also, you never explained this
Quote:
Originally Posted by number30 View Post
...Why can't they believe their own document instead of relying on document issued by some other country?
Both U visa and OCI are issued by same authority. What are the document you are "harping" that is issued by some other country.

For me, you are just "noisemaker" without going into facts. You need to acknowledge that visitors are required (read again, required) to follow rules if they are visiting any country, especially on visa.



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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2010, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by chem2 View Post
i don't believe anyone is arguing that what the airport immigration authorities did was against the law, i think they acted within the present law and guidelines which state a u visa is required along with an oci.

what i fail to understand is why is the law framed in such a way that 2 documents (oci doc and u visa stamp) are required. if the oci document is not secure enough, why can't the u visa serve as an oci as well? that way, the applicant needs to get a new u stamp when his passport expires. maybe they can frame it like green card renewal rules. i.e. the plastic green card may expire, but your perm resident status doesn't. plus forcing a gc holder to renew his plastic gc every 10 years gives the govt a chance to redo a background check.
That's exactly what a PIO card is . It expires in 15 years and you do not need to carry additional Visa. But then, OP preferred to go for OCI which never expires and so has to follow the rules of OCI.

In recent days there are a couple of articles from ex-Indians --"I forgot to carry my visa and Indian immigration allowed me only 5/15 days" etc. Another one was by one Dr Pandit. These people forget that inn their country, even one holding a valid visa is deported from airport for some filmsy reason.

I think India should give up the genorisity and do the same -- expedited removal when one arives without visa.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2010, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by number30 View Post
Most of us are aware of that. But what I am saying is if someone has OCI or PIO card they must accept that document without looking U visa stamp. It is just redundant. Why can't they believe their own document instead of relying on document issued by some other country?
Come on when you came to US you had a I 797 then a visa and the something even strange called I-94 card. Did you not feel why the hell does someone need I-94 when you have a visa with validity date. So many people had to make trip to Canada to just get that stupid piece of card paper stamped. Not saying its good or bad some official sitting in DOS thought it was a good check to have in place and now we have to follow it irrespective we like it or not. So similarly if Indian govt has some rules in place you need to follow them. you should thank your stars that they did not deport you but all you had to do was pay $45 bucks which is a pretty small price to pay I would say for not following rules.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2010, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by desi3933 View Post
Well, when you visit a country that requires visa, visitor must follow all the rules whether they make "sense" or not. If visitor should have 10 documents while visiting country xyz, and he/she is carrying only 9 documents, he/she is going to face difficulties at port of entry. That is just plain common sense.

In USA, for Port of entry on H-1B visa, do you know how many documents are needed?

OP was not carrying U visa stamp, and therefore faced problem. Instead of appreciating that authorities accommodated with temp visa, what are you saying is this -


Who are you to say that they MUST accept OCI without U visa? You don't get to make rules, do you? At most, you could say *should*.

Also, you never explained this

Both U visa and OCI are issued by same authority. What are the document you are "harping" that is issued by some other country.

For me, you are just "noisemaker" without going into facts. You need to acknowledge that visitors are required (read again, required) to follow rules if they are visiting any country, especially on visa.



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You are Comparing H1B with OCI. GOI itself comparing OCI with green card.
I am not trying to defend the OP. I Visit India Every year and carry my son's expired passport.

Must or should does not matter. I choose the wrong word.

again You are not reading the posts When they have OCI card they do not need another country's Passport. They are comparing OCI with green card. It is my opinion

Advocacy groups, Individuals here in US are trying to change the immigration laws. Whether it happens are not different thing. But we have right to say what I feel correct.

Moreover I know what you are talking about. It was company attorney's verbal words. I did not have proof. So kept quite

Last edited by number30; 03-18-2010 at 08:42 AM.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2010, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by number30 View Post
....
again You are not reading the posts When they have OCI card they do not need another country's Passport. ...
Would you mind explaining a bit more on this? What do you mean by "do not need another country's Passport"?

Are you suggesting that just because US green card holders are allowed to enter without carrying passport of citizenship, India should allow the same for OCI card holders? Each country has their set of rules when it comes to visa. One can use POI card, if they don't want to carry visa stamp.



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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2010, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by number30 View Post
You are Comparing H1B with OCI. GOI itself comparing OCI with green card.
I am not trying to defend the OP. I Visit India Every year and carry my son's expired passport.

Must or should does not matter. I choose the wrong word.

again You are not reading the posts When they have OCI card they do not need another country's Passport.
Where does it say so? The GOI rules are clear -- carry OCI and U Visa OR carry PIO (No U Visa required).


Quote:
They are comparing OCI with green card.
Again, where ? I do not see any Indian Law where they say OCI is like GreenCard. Remember it is the actual law that matters NOT what soemone says or thinks.
Further to that, even if they are conceptually similar does not mean the laws are same.


Quote:
It is my opinion

Advocacy groups, Individuals here in US are trying to change the immigration laws. Whether it happens are not different thing. But we have right to say what I feel correct.
Perfect. But then you do not have the RIGHT . It is just a PRIVILEGE that you are allowed to enter with a Visa or GreenCard. Even a GC can be revoked.
You can advocate as much as you want but you need to follow the law. You just cannot "forget" to carry the visa and say "I must be let in" because your laws does not make sense.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2010, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by krishmunn View Post
That's exactly what a PIO card is . It expires in 15 years and you do not need to carry additional Visa. But then, OP preferred to go for OCI which never expires and so has to follow the rules of OCI.

In recent days there are a couple of articles from ex-Indians --"I forgot to carry my visa and Indian immigration allowed me only 5/15 days" etc. Another one was by one Dr Pandit. These people forget that inn their country, even one holding a valid visa is deported from airport for some filmsy reason.

I think India should give up the genorisity and do the same -- expedited removal when one arives without visa.
I realize that the PIO card can be used without the need for a visa. Again, I am not questioning the actions of Indian immigration authorities in delaying OP's entry into India due to non-compliance with OCI rules.

All I am saying is that it seems inefficient to have a life-long OCI document, but the need to have a U visa with it (even if it is in an expired passport). To me, both the OCI and U visa can be combined into one secured passport stamp. Plus this brings additional revenue (however small it may be) every time an applicant's passport expires and he needs to renew his OCI card.

And yes, the US requires a bunch of documents to be admitted, like someone mentioned- I-94, I-797, client letters, H1-B packages, I-20 and the list goes on and on. But I don't think this thread is comparing US entry with India entry. The same situation could have happened if a UK citizen tried to enter with no U visa and only an OCI card.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2010, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by chem2 View Post
I realize that the PIO card can be used without the need for a visa. Again, I am not questioning the actions of Indian immigration authorities in delaying OP's entry into India due to non-compliance with OCI rules.

All I am saying is that it seems inefficient to have a life-long OCI document, but the need to have a U visa with it (even if it is in an expired passport). To me, both the OCI and U visa can be combined into one secured passport stamp. Plus this brings additional revenue (however small it may be) every time an applicant's passport expires and he needs to renew his OCI card.

And yes, the US requires a bunch of documents to be admitted, like someone mentioned- I-94, I-797, client letters, H1-B packages, I-20 and the list goes on and on. But I don't think this thread is comparing US entry with India entry. The same situation could have happened if a UK citizen tried to enter with no U visa and only an OCI card.
Your exact words in the earlier post were --
"maybe they can frame it like green card renewal rules. i.e. the plastic green card may expire, but your perm resident status doesn't. plus forcing a gc holder to renew his plastic gc every 10 years gives the govt a chance to redo a background check. "

So, you indeed , are comparing US (Green Card) to India (OCI).
As I said, if you want something similar to Green Card where you need not carry Visa, go for PIO. That has longer validity then GC (15 years) and you can travel without any visa.
OCI is just an additional option ... you don't like it , don't go for it. GOI has given you more options then many other countries will.

It may seem to be ineficient to have both OCI and Visa just like it is inefficient when one having a 797 Approved by US Govt , still need to get a Visa Stamp to enter US , OR someone entering UK need a Visa stamp even though he/she might have a work permit and so on.
Every country set their own law and foreigners , though might question the law, need to follow the law. Foreigners have FAR less right (and voice) in questioning a countries law.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2010, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by number30 View Post
I am not asking you to answer that question. Everyone who has OCI card knows that because it is written on that.
I was asking if there is any valid reson. Someone told me that the reason is that you can forge that document very easily.
You seem to be confused.

What is written on the OCI card? "Travel without U Visa is allowed" ?

For a final note...

I just called the Indian Embassy, they have told me "the reason" you are always looking for, but also told me not to tell anyone, particularly number30. [ sorry buddy, take it easy ]
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2010, 03:15 PM
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U visa along with OCI card is required so that tomorrow if you acquired citizenship of third country, GOI know about it.

This is necessary because OCI cards are not issued to citizen of certain countries.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2010, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by addsf345 View Post
Desi with an OCI card faces difficulty while entering India- Visa Power-Travel-Services-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times


On my most recent visit to India in February 2010, I ran into a little trouble at the immigration check post at the Chhatrapati Shivaji International airport, Mumbai. I had just arrived on a sixteen-hour Air India direct flight from the John F. Kennedy airport in New York, with a newly issued US passport and an Overseas Citizen of India (OCI) card obtained through the Consulate General of India (CGI), New York. As it turned out, I needed the class 'U' visa issued along with the OCI card, which was stamped in my expired US passport that I had not thought to bring with me. I was made to pay forty US dollars for a five-day temporary entry visa known as Temporary Landing Facility (TLF). In effect, my OCI card was rendered useless...

read more
So here you are complaining that you had to pay $45 to be admitted to the country because you did not read (or were not aware) of the rules regarding OCI.
Its ironical that you also mention the 16-hr plane trip.
I wonder how many of your kind (i.e. Indians who have taken up US citizenship) came to the aid of those H1-Bs sent back from Newark and other airports after being coerced to sign forms.
I wonder why nobody of your kind has even complained about the injustice that is country based visa quotas.
I wonder why people on H1-B and L1 etc. have to carry a folder full of papers inspite of them having a valid visa stamped in their passport.
You Sir/Madam are not getting any sympathy here. Go read the Indian consulate's rules on OCI and PIO before trying to start a controversy and railing against the Indian govt.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2010, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by krishmunn View Post
Your exact words in the earlier post were --
"maybe they can frame it like green card renewal rules. i.e. the plastic green card may expire, but your perm resident status doesn't. plus forcing a gc holder to renew his plastic gc every 10 years gives the govt a chance to redo a background check. "

So, you indeed , are comparing US (Green Card) to India (OCI).
As I said, if you want something similar to Green Card where you need not carry Visa, go for PIO. That has longer validity then GC (15 years) and you can travel without any visa.
OCI is just an additional option ... you don't like it , don't go for it. GOI has given you more options then many other countries will.

It may seem to be ineficient to have both OCI and Visa just like it is inefficient when one having a 797 Approved by US Govt , still need to get a Visa Stamp to enter US , OR someone entering UK need a Visa stamp even though he/she might have a work permit and so on.
Every country set their own law and foreigners , though might question the law, need to follow the law. Foreigners have FAR less right (and voice) in questioning a countries law.
My intention in my previous post was not to compare the US green card with an OCI or PIO. I was referring to the RENEWAL PROCESS for a 10 year GC. In my mind, the OCI process is a hell of a lot more efficient than the GC process; no freaking backlogs, easy to understand rules on how to qualify and no tonnes of required documentation to submit. We all know how inefficient the current US green card process is; hell this forum wouldn't exist without the inefficiencies of the EB GC process.

And NO, I don't think it is wrong to point out or question inefficiencies in the system. No system is perfect; processes and laws need to be tweaked all the time (not to compare US immigration with anything else, but AC-21 comes to mind, wonder how many citizens and how many immigrants had a hand in pushing/ implementing that law). We all have a right to an opinion, whether the authorities consider and implement that opinion is up to them.

I am not questioning the OCI rules, nor do I intend to circumvent any existing laws and then cry over the repurcussions.
I'm merely expressing an opinion; take it for what it's worth. My and your useless rambling here is going to have no effect on the OCI rules.

And BTW, my spouse does have a PIO card.

Peace!

Last edited by chem2; 03-18-2010 at 07:14 PM.
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