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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2010, 06:25 PM
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My main intention was not to start an Ivy league war but to make sure the guy goes to a reputable program and not fork out good money for an MBA in a third tier school. Instead of going through a laundry list of schools that are good I generally told him Ivy league.

Apart from this as some one with a MBA from an Ivy league school I think MBA was a total hogwash. Before anyone jumps to slit my throat let me specify that it might be idiosyncratic to my subject. I did MBA in Finance, then feeling what I learnt was inadequate I did a MS in Financial Engineering. This opened my eyes to the shortfall of the MBA programs in Finance. Finance has evolved so much that MBAís are incapable of handling the structure. Maybe MBAís marketing or general management might be adequate but if someone is planning for an MBA in Finance, donít.

Look for a good program in quantitative Finance and choose that over an MBA.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2010, 06:49 PM
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Thanks for the perspective smisachu.

Having done your MBA from a good school - at the risk of assuming why you did it - do you think that those three letters of MBA helped you in branching out and possibly moving up to different functional role and/or industry ? Such an important reason for many to do the MBA from a good school isn't it ?

Can you discount that entirely, keeping the actual focused knowledge acquisition aside that you desired in the MBA ?

Possibly your MS in Fin is helping you give that added impetus in your new line/function of work that you got after the MBA... is it ?

or do you think that the industry would have considered your expertise in Finance with a MS in Fin (without the MBA) more than the aura of the MBA (Finance) when looking for a job ?




Quote:
Originally Posted by smisachu View Post
My main intention was not to start an Ivy league war but to make sure the guy goes to a reputable program and not fork out good money for an MBA in a third tier school. Instead of going through a laundry list of schools that are good I generally told him Ivy league.

Apart from this as some one with a MBA from an Ivy league school I think MBA was a total hogwash. Before anyone jumps to slit my throat let me specify that it might be idiosyncratic to my subject. I did MBA in Finance, then feeling what I learnt was inadequate I did a MS in Financial Engineering. This opened my eyes to the shortfall of the MBA programs in Finance. Finance has evolved so much that MBA’s are incapable of handling the structure. Maybe MBA’s marketing or general management might be adequate but if someone is planning for an MBA in Finance, don’t.

Look for a good program in quantitative Finance and choose that over an MBA.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2010, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by smisachu View Post
My main intention was not to start an Ivy league war but to make sure the guy goes to a reputable program and not fork out good money for an MBA in a third tier school. Instead of going through a laundry list of schools that are good I generally told him Ivy league.

Apart from this as some one with a MBA from an Ivy league school I think MBA was a total hogwash. Before anyone jumps to slit my throat let me specify that it might be idiosyncratic to my subject. I did MBA in Finance, then feeling what I learnt was inadequate I did a MS in Financial Engineering. This opened my eyes to the shortfall of the MBA programs in Finance. Finance has evolved so much that MBAís are incapable of handling the structure. Maybe MBAís marketing or general management might be adequate but if someone is planning for an MBA in Finance, donít.

Look for a good program in quantitative Finance and choose that over an MBA.
This is my opinion - MBA is more of an entry into a restricted club with privileges rather than a degree. Yes you learn a lot during the program but brand and network are probably more important. Disclaimer - in a MBA program at top 10 university.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2010, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ebizash View Post
This ranking is a piece of joke. It lists some Chinese University of Hong Kong above Ross, Hass, Darden, and Anderson

Most of these ranking - US News, Business Week, NYT etc - generally list same schools in TOP 10 and just move the schools around because each of these ranking use 2-3 criteria different from others.
HKUST is not a joke. It is a top university. I personally know students from that univ and they have landed top consulting jobs in the US. Their grads are being picked up by top firms such McKinsey and Goldman Sachs. This univ was established by UK before Hong Kong became a part of China. So it is a good college with a reputation (and salaries) above Darden etc.

Yes, colleges such as MIT, Kellogg, Chicago are outside of Ivy Leagues and reputable too. If you look at the stats: in 2007 McKinsey hired more students from Kellogg than Wharton, Harvard and Yale and put together - which are the top 3 ivy league MBAs. When students from Harvard get into McKinsey they accept the job. In 2007 more than 50 UChicago students were offered a job at McKinsey but less than 1/3rd accepted the offer - obviously because they had better offers elsewhere in private equity and investment banking etc.

Firms such as McKinsey and Blackstone were founded by UChicago grads. NYU Stern students seem to get great offers from Wall Street with top profs such as Damodaran on their staff. Univ of Chicago MBAs have won more Nobel prizes than all Ivy leagues put together. 17 out of the 20 highest paid people in the world have an MBA from Univ of Chicago (source the Economist).
List of University of Chicago Booth School of Business alumni - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Point is that a lot of MBA schools provide top-notch education. Getting an MBA alone means nothing. The question is how do you utilize what you have gained from college.

Any top 25 MBA school is worth the paper it is printed on.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2010, 11:12 PM
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Nice discussion and let me add in.

First and foremost if you went into an MBA program hoping to master a particular subject such as Finance, Supply Chain, Manufacturing or Operations, you didn't do your homework before joining the B-School. What you needed was an MS/MFE not MBA.

MBA is merely a degree, a very very generalized one. Having a top MBA is NOT a ticket to top management positions. MBA/B-School is an opportunity to make the best of what school has to offer in terms of skill diversification for career change/advancement, network across the industry, using the alumni base/placement services to land an internship/full time job in whatever field you desire. While there is not guarantee that you will attain these career objectives with an MBA, odds are in favor.

So why doing an MBA ? Simply speaking don't do it if you don't need to. Cost is astronomical, then there is risk failure and you would need a lot of dedication and perseverance. Only if you have a specific need such as you want a career change, skill diversification or you are seeking acceptance across a wider industry base.

So what if I don't do it ? If you are stuck in a career that is reaching saturation due to constant influx of newcomers, you need to rethink if you can cope up with that. Most organizations are flat and opportunity to rise in corporate ladder is limited. Then there are careers such as Software and Hardware engineering where age bias is rampant. You reach a point where your experience makes you overqualifed for most jobs and since you haven't yet broken into Management position your options are limited and competition is overwhelming (talk to old IT folks from 70's and 80's or talk to Detroit Auto Workers). On the other hand if you are extremely happy with what you do and confident that you skills will continue to serve you in years to come (for example Medical Doctor, Lawyer, top brass engineers), not doing MBA is a better option. You can save your money and invest it in either in enhancing your current skills or use it to take an early retirement from the rat race.

Is MBA overrated ? Absolutely. Of lately along with Engineering, MBA is also facing the same skill dilution problem. There are too many MBA's chasing limited number of jobs. That's why where you do your MBA from is very important, in fact it should be one of the most important things to consider in the MBA decision process. In the years to come there maybe brand dilution even from top business school, but that's something you can't control. Indian education sector is now open for foreign universities which means more MBA with US university brand names. Wherever there is money to chase companies will go there and education sector is no different.

While there is no guarantees in life, do whatever that suits your career aspirations. You may succeed or you may fail but worst thing is not doing anything for the fear of unknown.

Last edited by Canadian_Dream; 04-06-2010 at 11:18 PM.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2010, 11:39 PM
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2010, 11:36 PM
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Any thoughts on Devry Online MBA ?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2010, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veerkar View Post
HKUST is not a joke. It is a top university. I personally know students from that univ and they have landed top consulting jobs in the US. Their grads are being picked up by top firms such McKinsey and Goldman Sachs. This univ was established by UK before Hong Kong became a part of China. So it is a good college with a reputation (and salaries) above Darden etc.

Yes, colleges such as MIT, Kellogg, Chicago are outside of Ivy Leagues and reputable too. If you look at the stats: in 2007 McKinsey hired more students from Kellogg than Wharton, Harvard and Yale and put together - which are the top 3 ivy league MBAs. When students from Harvard get into McKinsey they accept the job. In 2007 more than 50 UChicago students were offered a job at McKinsey but less than 1/3rd accepted the offer - obviously because they had better offers elsewhere in private equity and investment banking etc.

Firms such as McKinsey and Blackstone were founded by UChicago grads. NYU Stern students seem to get great offers from Wall Street with top profs such as Damodaran on their staff. Univ of Chicago MBAs have won more Nobel prizes than all Ivy leagues put together. 17 out of the 20 highest paid people in the world have an MBA from Univ of Chicago (source the Economist).
List of University of Chicago Booth School of Business alumni - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Point is that a lot of MBA schools provide top-notch education. Getting an MBA alone means nothing. The question is how do you utilize what you have gained from college.

Any top 25 MBA school is worth the paper it is printed on.
Veerkar:

I would strongly suggest you to revisit the facts. Schools like Kellogg and Booth (U Chicago) are good schools and they don't need the kind of promotion you are doing in this forum.

FYI.
a. Granted, in 2007 K had an unusually great year as far as McK was concerned. But stating that it was more than W, H, Y all put together is blatant. Even in that great year, McK placements at Kellogg was less that that at Wharton let alone Harvard....

b. Again same with Booth/UChicago. More than 50 in McK? The career placement report states 33. Why this fib? Lets stay with what is published and verifiable.

c. Can you please point us to the source of James O Mckinsey being a Booth/U Chicago Grad? He was the professor at Booth - not a grad from Booth. Another aspect, before you attribute the greatness of McKinsey to James O McKinsey, you should try and research little bit more about this firm and its genesis. You ought to read more about Marvin Bower (Harvard Alum, and father of Mgmt Consulting) and A T Kearney.

Now, I have no problem in you supporting non-ivy league schools or promoting them for that matter. However, I believe its inappropriate to state factually incorrect information in this discussion forum.

On my part I think this IVY stuff is very anecdotal and irrelevant. Stanford, MIT, K, Chicago etc are all great schools at par (+/-) with Harvard, Wharton, Tuck, Columbia and probably better than Cornell, Yale etc..

Last edited by Bhadwaj; 04-17-2010 at 12:55 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 11:10 AM
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MBA education is business. Universities don't make money if they offer it cheap.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by murali3000 View Post
Any thoughts on Devry Online MBA ?
Well i have done my MBA in fiannce from Devry university (NY Campus), i took both online and onsite classes....i completed my MBA back in Sep. 2006. At that time the cost of MBA was not too high...i was able to complete my MBA within $30K (but note i paid out of state tuition fees). MBA at Devry is goood...i mst say its a very nice program ....it gives good insight abt each course, the 2 months semester makes it more challenging, and i belive thats the best part of it !!!! like it puts more pressure on u & thats how u end up learnign more concepts in a less time !!!!! I am now workign in a bank !!!! So i would say that DEVRY is a good option.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 12:03 PM
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I have been thinking about doing an MBA for the past year and had been doing some research. First thing i considered was an Executive MBA from a top 20 school about 200 miles away, the cost including travel etc was about 100k. Not to mention the travel time and the effort that goes into it. I work as a IT developer in financial sector and thinking of steering my career towards a MBA/CFA. We don't have a top school in the city I live in to do a part time MBA. The next option was an online MBA and there were different opinions about online MBA ("not worth the paper they are printed on" talk). Finally I found an option that is a somewhat middle ground, a Tier II university in our state offering a distance MBA (Finance) program. Total instate fee $ 12k (employer willing to pay about 3k) and the degree certificate and transcript doesn't mention anything about the program being a distance MBA. My opinion (After getting a MS in electrical Engg. previously) is, it doesn't matter where you get your MBA from (Except some top univ's), it is how good you put that degree to work that matters.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 02:49 PM
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From your post I gather that you want to move from Electrical Engineering/IT developer to Financial Adviser/Wealth Management. I am just trying to find out how will you bring about this career change without a brand name MBA, dedicated placement service and alumni connection. Not to mention army of CFA/Finance folks to compete with for the same positions. I am asking this because you seem to have planned it very well and are currently in financial services industry. I am trying find out how different people successfully accomplish career change. You also made a good point regarding making the best of degree as opposed to earning the best degree. So how do you make your MBA degree work for you in the best possible way ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kak1978 View Post
I have been thinking about doing an MBA for the past year and had been doing some research. First thing i considered was an Executive MBA from a top 20 school about 200 miles away, the cost including travel etc was about 100k. Not to mention the travel time and the effort that goes into it. I work as a IT developer in financial sector and thinking of steering my career towards a MBA/CFA. We don't have a top school in the city I live in to do a part time MBA. The next option was an online MBA and there were different opinions about online MBA ("not worth the paper they are printed on" talk). Finally I found an option that is a somewhat middle ground, a Tier II university in our state offering a distance MBA (Finance) program. Total instate fee $ 12k (employer willing to pay about 3k) and the degree certificate and transcript doesn't mention anything about the program being a distance MBA. My opinion (After getting a MS in electrical Engg. previously) is, it doesn't matter where you get your MBA from (Except some top univ's), it is how good you put that degree to work that matters.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 03:03 PM
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If you know what you exactly want to do (for example branching out into Finance) and if you do it in the right place where the opportunities for that field exist, then maybe it would not matter which school in the short term.

Eventually one would want a b-degree that would allow one to transition to a new career path quickly with a good choice of options and very importantly a good network for life. After all the name would matter for say the first few years after you get the necessary jumpstart. (Your personal network will be for life though)

Attending the # 3 ranked B-school in the latest USNews ranking, I can see the network/peer group is fabulous, entrepreneurial spirit is contagious and the opportunities to learn skills in activities are many; not to mention a chance to network with some of the top business leaders. In a long-term perspective, I would say the latter is the most important. Maybe, Tier II schools may not be able to provide that.

In a nutshell, it is good to go to a top b-school, but it not bad either, to go to a lower ranked school if you if it enables you to go where you want to go, in the short term!

Last edited by InTheMoment; 04-19-2010 at 03:06 PM.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 03:28 PM
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You made good points. Unfortunately perception of career change when going into the school and the reality of it when coming out of the school is quite different. That's why I was trying to find out how people are doing it successfully. I was discouraged to meet some recent B-School graduates who couldn't do it despite them being sharp and brilliant. That's when I started to look out for the reasons, obvious culprits were economy and age, but that can't be all. Not to mention these guys were from top 10 part time MBA programs. Of course not all was gloom and doom but a majority of the outcome wasn't encouraging. I guess you aspirations of career change might just be another casualty of daunting immigration process, by the time you get your opportunity (post MBA) you might just be passed on as "not the best fit". I hope I am wrong but I need to hear from those who did it successfully, despite age and other negative aspect of an MBA late in their career.


Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheMoment View Post
If you know what you exactly want to do (for example branching out into Finance) and if you do it in the right place where the opportunities for that field exist, then maybe it would not matter which school in the short term.

Eventually one would want a b-degree that would allow one to transition to a new career path quickly with a good choice of options and very importantly a good network for life. After all the name would matter for say the first few years after you get the necessary jumpstart. (Your personal network will be for life though)

Attending the # 3 ranked B-school in the latest USNews ranking, I can see the network/peer group is fabulous, entrepreneurial spirit is contagious and the opportunities to learn skills in activities are many; not to mention a chance to network with some of the top business leaders. In a long-term perspective, I would say the latter is the most important. Maybe, Tier II schools may not be able to provide that.

In a nutshell, it is good to go to a top b-school, but it not bad either, to go to a lower ranked school if you if it enables you to go where you want to go, in the short term!
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2010, 05:47 PM
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Well my plan is for a career advancement within my company and getting an MBA makes me eligible for internal job postings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Dream View Post
From your post I gather that you want to move from Electrical Engineering/IT developer to Financial Adviser/Wealth Management. I am just trying to find out how will you bring about this career change without a brand name MBA, dedicated placement service and alumni connection. Not to mention army of CFA/Finance folks to compete with for the same positions. I am asking this because you seem to have planned it very well and are currently in financial services industry. I am trying find out how different people successfully accomplish career change. You also made a good point regarding making the best of degree as opposed to earning the best degree. So how do you make your MBA degree work for you in the best possible way ?
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