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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by albertpinto View Post
above post has lot of spelling mistakes and is misleading too ..texas is bit better but owning is cheaper only if prices are increasing at inflation plus 1 or 2 percent minimum. (and this may not happen for 4-5 years ..once prices start to increase..your calculation becomes applicable)
if your mortgage is 6% and the forecast is that home prices will fall 10%, then your interest rate effectively becomes 16% plus. the only advantage (or disadvantage) in a home is the extra space.
and in current economic situation, the extra space, payments, headache, immobility is more of a headache than quality
Sorry, its fixed now.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by xyzgc View Post
However, the million dollar question is how do you know the prices have actually bottomed one? Won't you go ahead and buy if its affordable, instead of wasting precious years which shorten the career span and deferring your decision?
Instead of affordability, I think we should see the parity between renting and cost of ownership instead of seeing affordability. If you can rent the same/similar place for significantly cheaper price, rent it. That would be a wise financial decision.

If I have a million dollars in cash, I can afford a 600K house in my area but why should I if I know the house does not deserve to be 600K and most likely it will come down in price? Just because you can afford does not mean you should throw away money.

Regarding finding the bottom, follow this thumb rule for now:
You would not see any recovery of any sort in economy or housing until and unless you see a turn around in financials. So just closely follow them. Right now turn around in financial companies and banks is no where in picture.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bharol View Post
Regarding finding the bottom, follow this thumb rule for now:
You would not see any recovery of any sort in economy or housing until and unless you see a turn around in financials. So just closely follow them. Right now turn around in financial companies and banks is no where in picture.
I guess that's a good indicator, yes. In any case, I have no plans in buying a house in the nearer term even if I get my green card. I already got a nice, large apartment in India which I could very, very easily afford 3-4 years back Now, even that is unaffordable.

Considering the layoffs that are looming large, I don't even know what the subsequent quarters have in store for me. Forget buying a house in the US, I would glad if I can survive this terrible downturn. All the blue chips are laying off. MSFT laid off 5k, something which wasn't done in three decades.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 02:15 AM
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Default I think we started living like americans and forgot our roots

HI guys ,
Why are we even thinking of owing a house , imagine our parents, most of them were able to manage with Government earned meager salaries. I think our focus should be on the how improving the bottom line for our company , i think we should focus on cutting cost and improving productivity in our companies we work in this economy rather than discussing this useless housing stuff or stocks.
Sorry guys i think we as an responsible immigrants should take the lead in showing to our American counterparts how to live with few !!.
take care
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 03:54 AM
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I think our focus should be on the how improving the bottom line for our company , i think we should focus on cutting cost and improving productivity in our companies we work in this economy rather than discussing this useless housing stuff or stocks.


Do you want to save when ceo's saves like this.
http://washingtonindependent.com/273...nd-35k-commode
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 11:53 AM
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Default Here's why I bought before GC

Take a look and it will be obvious.... www.netzeroenergy.org

Yep, that's my house.
Solar powered, electric and heating by heat pump. Not something you'd try with a rental.

Another way to put it. I can do what I want.
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If my post has been helpful, please consider contributing to immigrationvoice. It will help us continue this effort and serve the community. Thank you.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 12:18 PM
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Smile House as investment

I agree that house appreciates on average at inflation + 1% but it is still not a bad investment because most likely everyone would be taking a mortgage. So what we need to find out is a equity return on house?

For a 30 year mortgage and a 20% down payment, the house return on your invested equity of 20% by the end of 15 years is approximately equal to long term stock market return of 10%, even though the house is appreciating at inflation + 1%. This is because of deleveraging.

However, if we do not refinance by the end of 15 years then the house becomes a bad investment and the returns go down.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bharol View Post
I beg to differ. House is a BAD investment. Historically houses appreciate approximately at the rate of inflation+1 or 2 % points.(Forget bubble years). Plus the costs(maintenance and property taxes) related to house ownership makes it a really BAD investment. Imagine putting money in an account which gives 2% returns and has 2% maintenance charges!

House is a great place to live in. That is what should be in mind while buying a house.




I agree. However if somebody thinks living in a bigger place brings a better quality of life, even then he/she does not need to buy at 3 times the cost of renting the same place. He can RENT. By buying you are bringing the quality of life down. At one time a place in my area which could be rent for appx 2000 dollars a month would take about 4000+ dollars to own with 30 year fixed. Reason? because rents reflect the buying power of the resident. Nobody gets a ARM for paying the rent!



Yes. I am convinced that if you wait another year or so, ratio of cost of ownership and cost of renting will come to some sane levels and that is when people should think of buying. I am planning the same.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mundada View Post
However, if we do not refinance by the end of 15 years then the house becomes a bad investment and the returns go down.
Very good point mentioned.

Charak says (In Sanskrit): Rinam Kritwa Ghritam Piwet ...
Meaning is: Borrow money to drink milk butter (it is a symbol of buying of the material things). As long as you live, live happily.

American system works in such a way that, if one does not remain in home loan, he/she is a big looser. On 30 years loan, one should take equity out of home between 12-15 years, so that again home is 70-80% financed. The equity money taken can be invested in stock for maximizing gains.

Usually a home is put to remains in 70-80 % loan for maximum tax benefit - most of the homes are like that. So when stock goes down and home prices go down by 20%, most of the houses come underwater.

The moment a home comes underwater or nearing it, refinancing is not possible.

===
Further, you buy a home or a car, it is owned by bank. In fact, when I bought a new car on paying 100% to big Toyata Dealer, still the car was put on loan with banker. After 5-6 days it was fully transfered to me (although I did not pay anything for car being on loan). - The system work like that - One of the largest Toyta Dealer in bay area has no system in place, in which I could buy a car by paying 100% directly. 100% payment did not made me full owner of car from day 1.

===
Most of Asian countries work in opposit way - everything on cash. There are no (or may be very few) policies providing returns on loan. I have experience of buying two home in India - on loan - paying full - and selling. Also in India I bought four cars and sold them.

===
Things are different here. I was under tremendous pressure from friends to buy instead of renting. In last posting I provided info. that I did buying this month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhundhun View Post
My home buying
In the buying process, I got: some money from builder towards closing cost, some money from agent. I'll get tax credit from fed. Also banker provided one year free borrower protection, which I can terminate before payment starts. So effectively system (business process) in US provided a total $17,000 while buying. People form India must be knowing - it is reverse over there. Here due to borrower protection i have protection of $25,000. So while buying, things are not that bad. if I add $17,000 with borrower protection of $25,000 (in case of problem), it turns out to be $40,000 odd. This is what I mean by system or business process providing support for buying. After putting all money in home, this $40,000 is still there.

Not having GC/Citizenship is a real hinderance, because one is fully part of US system as long as he/she is working. The moment job or status is gone, he/she is not part of system is US (becomes illegal). Buying is in this context a very high risk activity specially because trends are downward - there is no time to react.
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Last edited by Dhundhun; 01-27-2009 at 01:58 PM.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2009, 12:28 PM
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Default Dundhun

"Charak says (In Sanskrit): Rinam Kritwa Ghritam Piwet ..."

I remember, some one mentioned to me about this same stuff. Centuries old charwak philosophy "Just do it kind of mentality" which led to hippy culture in 1960. Its seems to be making a come back

Its borrow or steal but live happily

Good points by the way. All this shows that we have to prepare for long years as this economic and social conditions are expected to last atleast until 2011 as per economic experts.

Last edited by gapala; 02-02-2009 at 12:36 PM.
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