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Coming to point, in my previous blog “Peace of mind – Do you have?” the whole purpose of writing that story detailing every minute & every hour is I want people to come out of comfort zone & see the reality. There are lot of people who live in comfort zone & when I say comfort zone all they care is they have a job, paying bills on time, enjoying weekends with family, vacation etc. I want them to come out of this comfort zone & see the reality out there & that is the reason I tried my best to put out my story in detail so I want people to imagine in my shoes for 1 min & think of what they would be doing if they have to face this situation tomorrow so they can better prioritize & plan accordingly. I have written this “Peace of mind topic” keeping in mind for both who bought houses & also those who did not buy house because not having a house will not put anyone in comfortable position when a job is lost.
I was under assumption after I finished & posted my article that people will take my experience & take a quick look at their priorities & be prepared but instead I have seen some comments like “bullshitting, Bollywood Melodrama, Cribbing, loan defaulter’s, fools, pretent to be shell shocked, overly optimistic etc but I failed to understand that how these comments are going help others ( I know your intentions were good ) instead my whole point of writing has become useless because some wants to target only the original poster & neglecting the actual content. To clarify few things let me explain on some serious concerns raised by others on why I bought a house in first place & as I said in this article this belongs to people who bought houses by mid 2008 & before. My simple answer would be “good quality of life” & I know that this wont suffice you & it might lead to another negative debate. So let me explain in detail. I have been in this country Since 2000 & I have seen & survived previous recession so I know what it’s like. I was also present in NY city when 9/11 happened & I have to go through what every asian looking went through those tough period & believe me it was not easy. I also survived NY Blackout spending the whole night at port autority. The reason I am saying all this I am not a new comer to this country & I have seen both good times & worst so I know deep inside that whatever decisions I take I am not just taking for sake of it & neither did I buy house as soon as I came so I can gain equity. Now after all this 8 years & moving two Jobs & shifted to California in 2005 on a full time job my priority date is still now 2007 EB3 after so many years. When I shifted to California in 2005 on fulltime job I would have bought a house but I didn’t because of several reasons like many of you 1) i was not able to afford 2) My wife moved to H4(worked on H1 in NY) at that time. It is only after my wife got EAD in july fiasco & after she got a Job we started looking for house in beginning of 2008. My H1 was approved & stamped on January 2008 & I know for sure that I will be in this country for next years & we also have a EAD . Now that we have Dual Income & market has come down slow low & no one can predict when it will reach bottom we started looking for bargain foreclosures houses. The only reason we want to buy a affordable house is to give a good quality of Life, stability & good neighbourhood for my daughter ( actually born in September ). So here you have two options either you choose to be in rented place & pay almost same amount in good neighborhoods for what you pay in mortage or you start looking for a house for affordable house & mortgage in good neighbourhood. I chose the later as the only downside is I have to pay that 10-15% downpayment & I was willing to take the risk as I knew I am here for sometime. Now for the current 30 yr fixed mortage payment is only 300$ more than what I used to pay for rent. Little did anyone know during early January that major financial companies will file for bankruptcy. It is only in late 2008 when Lehman failed & the actual crash started to happen & market collapsed which lead into recession. So imagine even if I did not buy a house & had that down payment with me, the fact that loosing a job will not put me into comfortable position even if I had a GC. The least it would help is pay bills for few months without a job & I am sure all those people who did not buy houses didn’t plan to live on their savings until market gets back. I also mentioned in previous article “is it easy to leave everything behind? Yes if you want & No if you want to fight” & I said No, I want to fight. I mentioned that I did have some reserves & I have many backup plans even incase of worst scenario. I was merely pointing out that it was one of my worry but I did not mention anywhere that I am bankrupt. Also since my wife was on EAD now we were confident that atleast one of us will find Job sooner than later So the notion that people who bought houses without a GC are dumb, fools, morons & all other filthy language against these people should change. As every individual is different & everyone has their own priorities & life style they chose to Live. Also people who came here ( highly skilled ) know what they are doing & some take calculate risks & some chose to lead simple life. No one should dictate others life on how they should live their life. Again I read somewhere interesting that there is very thin line between stupidity & guts & ultimately it is the person who take decisions will have to face the consequences (good or bad). So guys’ buying a house is not choosing happiness for material things, at least not for me. You need not associate all the people who bought a house are trying to live American dream at whatever cost. So guys/gals I sincerely believe that you did nothing wrong & should not be ashamed if you have bought a house because that is the quality of life you chose to live. The worst anything could happen is you will sell all this & go back to your country but not empty handed. You will go back with your assets ( lovely wife, children & skills you gained ) & these assets will help you shine wherever you are. You can also proudly tell your children & grand children that you never had to live pathetic life in America & you have always lived American dream in America. I will end this by telling a very short story. Back in 2002 one of my colleagues daughter who was 10 yrs at that time immigrated to USA. After living for few days one day she asked her mother “Mama have we become poor” The reason the girl was asking was back in home country in their village they used to live in big bungalow with 4 bedrooms, big backyard, two cars, so many friends, maids etc” but when she came here she was living in Single bedroom, No backyard, No Car at that time & no friends sadly. The answer to her daughter question can be given in two ways, 1) no baby we are richer than before as we now have more bank balance or 2) give her a good quality life style which you can afford & that means nice community, friends, decent house etc what ever makes you & your family happy. ( it is also possible in rented community ) but again that’s what I meant by choosing their own lifestyle. Finally I did not buy a house because of material benefit, ego, equity etc. Home Owners should be ashamed if they don’t have proper justification on why they bought the house in first place & I know deep in my heart that I did nothing wrong & I am still & always be happy as long as I am in my own house. Thank You ……. Slumdog |
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dude,
I believe you have poured your heart out there! Wonderful job! I believe most of the sane members here totally respect your decision to buy a home without GC. Having said that, although your description of half-a-day's work gave me goosebumps, I'm not too carried away. If it happens, it happens! I'd go back to my home country with the fond memory of 10 years of life here! As you said, we wont go back empty handed. Came to US with just $200 in the pocket! Relax and enjoy your home, GCisaDawg |
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Wow! That was one fantastic blog post. Kudos to you Slumdog!!
As I mentioned on your previous thread too, I got laid off while on vacation in India, I have a mortgage and my wife is pregnant. And I bought my house long before I even started my GC process. Do I regret it? Absolutely not! I live in an amazing high rise condo with fantastic views, I pretty much walk to everywhere even though I do own a car and live a pretty nice life. Despite that, I have decent savings. Would I have had more savings if I didnt have this condo? Sure, no doubt. But I didnt move to the US of A to live like a bhangi. I came here to live a life I couldnt possibly have back in India (and mind you I had a very good life back home too). Last year I learnt sailing and its a pretty expensive sport, but where else will you be able to sail if not here. This year I had planned to learn skiing, but given the fact that I am now laid off, maybe next year. I fully intend to fight too. If it means I take a substantial paycut, I will. If it means I need to do work that I used to do 4 years ago, fine. You gotta roll with the punches bro. I am just grateful that the July fiasco happened and I have an EAD. I am grateful my wife still has a job. And above all I am grateful that I will soon be a father. Like my parents I fully intend to give my kid the best that I can afford. If s/he wants to goto Harvard, s/he will. I dont want my kid ever growing up believing that something is not possible. That is one thing I have learned from this November's election. This country's ability to embrace change is phenomenal and the generosity of its people is amazing. I remember on 9/11, my manager came up to me and gave me a letter on the company's letterhead that stated that I was working there and he can be called on to vouch for my character at anytime. Rather naively, I asked him why I needed this and he said, "Keep it. I hope you never do, but just in case." I never forgot that gesture. |
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Slumdog, ANOTHER GOOD POST. just my good 2 cents to add for readers...
I posted my experience of last 9 months on your peace of mind blog, and i agree with you on all accounts (on both blogs). But what resonates from your post is, how people could/will/would/shall/should perceive and think....it is the perception of life that is becoming scarier than the life itself. What rings my mind is, why is being happy all the time so hard? Or, is it again the perception of what should be done to be happy - anyways, below is what stuck my mind after reading yours... Ultimately at the end and very basis we are human beings and we are allowed to commit mistakes. Each person/individual will have to decide what "mistake", "risk", "issue", "reality" is. For some its thinking through the heart and for some its thinking through the brain. If its heart then its risky and if its mind, its calculated. There are instances when both heart & mind have been right, and also where both have been wrong. Folks, keep your head high. You have lived so far and will in the future. Dont let a right fly you away and a mistake drop you. It is hard to live a life as-is, and with aspirations dont make it harder. Dream but dont hope. At least try to be happy, and pray for all the needy and help as much as you can. Last edited by saggi13; 01-22-2009 at 10:39 PM. |
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Slumdog,
You have really taken pains to put this in such an articulated fashion. Even though I do not feel great right now, I cannot stop dropping my 2 cents here. While we know that all NON GC Holders will stop buying houses for the correct reasons I want to underscore some subtle reasons that influenced this buying spree. It is not my intention to put any one on pedestal. I am just writing what I observed. Not intended at any one in person. Greed and lack of understanding Want to make easy money. People think that Real estate value does not fall, just like in the places where they come from, where property has two values, Market value and government value with a huge differential. In the US, the county property assessments are purely based on market value. So thinking that the gains are not going to evaporate is lack of understanding of the system coupled with greed. Do I/We really need a house? Not many of the troubled home owners might have asked this Q. Had if they asked this Q, things would have been a lot better. The discussion of buying vs renting was almost gone. Every one held the opinion that buying trumps renting. Save money on Taxes This IMO, is the biggest myth. One needs to keep changing the house every 5 years to have the itemized deduction more than the standard deduction.B T W, If you live in one of the states that do not have state tax, your itemized deduction might not be so big that you will really benefit a lot every year. Hey! It does not matter where you are paying. Either you pay your taxes to uncle sam directly so that the govt can run fine or buy a home and contribute to the economy. In the end Govt gets the money. Biggest lie propagated by Realtors. Look at the amortization tables of your mortgage to find out. Bad Realtor Giving cash back to the buyers and trying to sell every damn home. When I buy a home, I will refuse to take the money from the Realtor off the bat. I will make him/her work and find the right home I want and would not just buy a home in a day. Easy money for the Realtor and a bad home with a bad loan for buyers. There are people who went out on the weekend and signed a home and told me at work on Monday. DINKS So we are good DINKS=Double income no kids. So what? That is now. what about six months from now? Are there going to be any life changing events? We cant predict every thing but it is NOT difficult to forecast whether a family is going to have a kid or not and what kind of financial implications will such events have? Peer pressure Lets take fictitious families R & S living in the same rented community with similar back ground. Mr and Mrs R decide to buy a home and they buy one. Mr S does not think it is right for them to do so. How ever, Mrs S pressures Mr S into doing so. Believe me this happens all the time. Down payment There is a reason why 20% down payment was a norm in the mortgage industry for a long time. 20% down payment keeps PMI and the high interest rates on your secondary loan away. I know people who are burned because of PMI and interest rate on second loan. Such down payment will keep the monthly EMI affordable and leaves out gimmicks. I can understand taking a second loan on the 10% down payment, but people were let go with 0% down payment leaving them with a bad loan and a bad home. Some people bought the home they wanted, but the price was too high. Thats all they are left with. As President O said, we collectively failed to take difficult and correct decisions even though the greed and deception can be attributed to some people on the wall street.
__________________
Join the DC area chapter Last edited by nixstor; 01-22-2009 at 10:54 PM. |
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No issues if you go back. That can happen to anybody. Nobody is safe in this country. Make sure you pay off your mortgages if you do and cover all your liabilities. There should be criminal action against loan defaulters, otherwise lessons won't be learnt. And if you don't want to persecute these sons of bitches, give a portion of my tax money back, which I paid for last 9 frigging years, which has gone into these bailouts. I'm not even asking for the loss of revenue my company has endured due to our customers (high profile banks) slashing their IT expenditure. I cannot. Don't compensate me for the ripple effect but at least compensate me for the prospect of job losses me and thousands like me face this HISTORIC year of 2009, when a white president has entered the black house ..oops a black president has entered the white house. (I'm not making anything up, everything I wrote about my company's customers is true). Immigrants who don't pay off and run away should be extradited and put behind bars. Yes, we can. Yes, we can change. Yes, we can. And folks, if you don't like my language, consider me insane and leave it at that but give my tax money back not in IOU and promissary notes but in checks. Last edited by xyzgc; 01-22-2009 at 10:52 PM. |
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Slumdog...I totally agree with your view point and in fact share the same. I believe you cannot put your life on hold waiting for GC or something unpredictable. I also agree with you that buying a house is a life style decision. You can live ur life hoarding cash living cheaply or you can live your life well. Also each has its advantages and its a personal choice.
Also on another note I have become a fan of your blogs. I encourage you to write more and I am sure there are other people like me.
__________________
PD: May 19 2006 140 Filing Date: 06/06/2006 140 Approved: 02/06/2007 485 Mailed On: 08/13/2007 485 ND: 09/13/2007 |
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I can imagine what was going through Slumdog's mind. But believe me, I was in similar situations twice in 2001 and 2003, well, not exactly, I should say, our entire department of 89 were wipped off keeping just our big boss on board. 100 guys came from India and looked over our shoulders for couple of weeks, we were asked to train counterparts and ensure the success on everything that we used to do on a daily basis. At the end of the month all of us were out of work. Jobs were shifted to outsourcing company in india.
I was feeling terrible for couple of days but found a job after 2 weeks and the history repeated again after 14 months. Similar situation but different faces. This time the pain was not as bad as it was during the first time. Ofcourse, I had to move to west coast leaving my cherished home and live in a rented apratment.. But my friends, looking back at the events, I can see that those situations solidified my convictions and made me much stronger. I truely believe, well, I know now that what ever happened in the past was for my good. If you really think, all our worries are either the things that has happened in the past or anxiety about future. Past is gone and future is unknown. Do not think too much about future or past... we all want to be happy and happiness is available only in the present moment as some one said. We miss very easily as constantly present is turning into past. Its one thing to know what is going on around us and other to be fearful and feeling defeated... we have to walk that thin line. I agree with Nixtor on his points ![]() Quote:
Last edited by gapala; 01-22-2009 at 11:51 PM. |
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Let me try - Or beg the bank to lower your mortgage. |
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But I do respect if any non GC holder go and buy a home. I agree with your point about defaulters. But take your argument elsewhere. In California, a musician who claimed 100K income/year was asked to stand in front of his home with his musical instrument and photographed. That photograph went into Washington Mutual's file as income proof. If you think, the housing crisis is because of defaulters, you are partially wrong! Prices went very high and people couldnt buy and that is the reason home prices went down. Since it went down, loans backed up by those very assets lost value. And people defaulted because what they owe was higher than the value of home! You are really delusional if you think non GC home-owners are to be blamed for this mess! You really need a good tax refund from the government! File your taxes soon! Last edited by gcisadawg; 01-23-2009 at 02:36 AM. |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/bu...wamu.html?_r=1 "Yet even by WaMu’s relaxed standards, one mortgage four years ago raised eyebrows. The borrower was claiming a six-figure income and an unusual profession: mariachi singer. Mr. Parsons could not verify the singer’s income, so he had him photographed in front of his home dressed in his mariachi outfit. The photo went into a WaMu file. Approved." |
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Why are you equating quality of life to owning a house?
- Because you are an "owner"? No you are not! You are renting the house from the bank - Because you have a backyard?- go out and rent a house. They are a dime a dozen, will cost you half the cost of your monthly mortgage payment - Because you have peace of mind? Really. Read your other post on people getting laid off - Because your (ok someone else's) kid asked if you are poor? Really? A kid's innocent question is going to make you gamble (that's what investing in an immovable asset is in your situation) away a decade of savings? - Because you want to give your child the best possible childhood? Think about it, if things turn for the worse either in your economy/company/job (absolutely do not wish it on anyone), and you are forced to move/sell the house/get foreclosed upon etc., how much more have you hurt your family and traumatized them in your effort to give them a great childhood? - How many nights of peaceful sleep have you lost lying awake wondering what you would do if you/your spouse lost a job, had to move etc.? I still cannot understand how/why someone would buy a house in the bay area ($700K+ for a SFH in a minimally liveable area) and $1M+ in places like Cupertino. I will enjoy my quality of life in my rented condo (with a rent 1/3rd of the monthly mortgage payment it would take to buy it) and take my 2 year old to the park if he feels like he needs a back yard. Dont need to mow the lawn either! |
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