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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by krishmunn View Post
Who says so ? SS website has an international section. Check that out. There are very few countries which are restricted (like Cuba etc) and India is not one of those.

You can get SS benefit if you have 40 credits even if you are an Indian Citizen residing in India.

To those who want SS tax back, do you claim your Federal tax back too ? This is just a tax like any other tax. Don't confuse this with PF in India (that is comparable to 401K). No one (including USC) "gets back" SS money. The money paid by us are used to pay those who are retired and similarly, when we retire, money paid by workers at that point will be used to pay us.

Finally, if you do not want to pay SS tax, there is a easy way --- do not come to work in US
From your post "The money paid by us are used to pay those who are retired and similarly, when we retire, money paid by workers at that point will be used to pay us." - this is exactly what people are asking here, some benefits when we retire if we had paid enough SS credits (10 years or 40+ quarters). Just the difference is that the retirement happens in India and not here. Nobody is asking the money back now. We are all asking for same treatment as everybody else who pays SS.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 02:50 PM
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Default Let's see some actual data

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Originally Posted by jetflyer View Post
100% agree, that way rich won't noise and happily pay 15% tax.



Above statements only holds true when you DO NOT COUNT SS + Medicare in tax (avg income $60k+).
Let's see some actual data. I am not making any judgments and leave it up to you see the data and decide for yourself.

Taxation Charts | Perot Charts - Part 11
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by django.stone View Post
From your post "The money paid by us are used to pay those who are retired and similarly, when we retire, money paid by workers at that point will be used to pay us." - this is exactly what people are asking here, some benefits when we retire if we had paid enough SS credits (10 years or 40+ quarters). Just the difference is that the retirement happens in India and not here. Nobody is asking the money back now. We are all asking for same treatment as everybody else who pays SS.

And you get the same treatment. It does not matter if you retire in India. You will get your money . So what is the problem? However, with current state of SS, no one (including USC) might be getting anything out of it.
Did you check the SSA link which I sent earlier?
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mammoy2k View Post
I am disturbed by preaching here, especially when someone is preaching without facts. Taxes that one pays in the US are for roads, schools and NOT for hospital. US Govt does not run hospitals except for VA/DoD.

Now Medicare and Social Security are not tax per se. They are like HOA, where everyone pools $ and later they get benefit. It is not for people who fought war or made country great. It is for EVERYONE who contributed to these pools. How is asking for the rights is not showing respect to society? In fact not asking for rights is disrespect to US society.

Regarding GC, I agree that it is not a right. But that does not mean that anyone can take your hard earned $ promising to pay you when you are old and you not getting it.

SS and Medicare are termed as TAX if you check your W2.

However, your basic premise is incorrect. One can get SS benefits even in India. Check the link which I sent in earlier post
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krishmunn View Post
SS and Medicare are termed as TAX if you check your W2.

However, your basic premise is incorrect. One can get SS benefits even in India. Check the link which I sent in earlier post
To quote McCain "A pig is a pig even if you put lipstick on it"
Just naming Social Security and Medicare as "TAX" in W2 won't make it a regular tax.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 04:52 PM
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Default So we can get benefits outside USA

So, to summarize, we can get social security benefits when we retire outside USA as long as we don't live in one of the countries explicitly excluded on the Social Security website.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gc28262 View Post
To quote McCain "A pig is a pig even if you put lipstick on it"
Just naming Social Security and Medicare as "TAX" in W2 won't make it a regular tax.
The only point is you or I are nobody to decide if the nomenclature is incorrect. We have come to this country as alien, per our own wish. If we do not like their terminilogy or rules, we have the option not to come.

I am not sure what is your definition of "regular" or "irregular" tax but a tax is what is collected by a government from people and spent for benefit of people. The definition fits perfect for SS and medicare.

It is not that you learnt about SS rules after working for many years in this country.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 05:54 PM
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Default that's not the point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by krishmunn View Post
And you get the same treatment. It does not matter if you retire in India. You will get your money . So what is the problem? However, with current state of SS, no one (including USC) might be getting anything out of it.
Did you check the SSA link which I sent earlier?
You seem to speaking about things that are irrelevant to the question and discussion. As you can see from the previous post from KhodalMD there is no clear direction on if all of us get SS benefits if we go back home. We can call get to any links via google, that's not the point of discussion. the point of discussion is to know if people can get SS benefits if they go back home after meeting 10 yrs criteria. NO your link does not conclusively answer that.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krishmunn View Post
The only point is you or I are nobody to decide if the nomenclature is incorrect. We have come to this country as alien, per our own wish. If we do not like their terminilogy or rules, we have the option not to come.

I am not sure what is your definition of "regular" or "irregular" tax but a tax is what is collected by a government from people and spent for benefit of people. The definition fits perfect for SS and medicare.

It is not that you learnt about SS rules after working for many years in this country.
The issue here is many of us from our continent religiously believe "Government is of the people, by the people, for the people". We think government can do whatever it wants, it is all legitimate. Remember slavery was legal in this country. There are lot of unfair, unjust rules in every country. Legislative arm of the government is to correct these unjust rules. GW Bush or Obama can build a mansion for themselves and can impose an additional TAX on people to cover the cost. It will still appear as "TAX" in W2 statements. But it is not a TAX.

If after living in this country and haven't noticed the difference between American democracy vs Indian democracy, American public vs Indian public
you haven't gained much by living here.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django.stone View Post
You seem to speaking about things that are irrelevant to the question and discussion. As you can see from the previous post from KhodalMD there is no clear direction on if all of us get SS benefits if we go back home. We can call get to any links via google, that's not the point of discussion. the point of discussion is to know if people can get SS benefits if they go back home after meeting 10 yrs criteria. NO your link does not conclusively answer that.
It of course clarifies that an Indian Citizen in India can get the benefits. Read it again.

If you still have doubt, contact SSA
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gc28262 View Post
The issue here is many of us from our continent religiously believe "Government is of the people, by the people, for the people". We think government can do whatever it wants, it is all legitimate. Remember slavery was legal in this country. There are lot of unfair, unjust rules in every country. Legislative arm of the government is to correct these unjust rules. GW Bush or Obama can build a mansion for themselves and can impose an additional TAX on people to cover the cost. It will still appear as "TAX" in W2 statements. But it is not a TAX.

If after living in this country and haven't noticed the difference between American democracy vs Indian democracy, American public vs Indian public
you haven't gained much by living here.
Oh! The American Public has never complained about SS Tax or Medicare. It is you, the Indian Public, who is complaining.

Why should US change their rule of SS giving an unfair advantage to the aliens ?

Even a USC might not get anything out of SS given the trend of its funds and you expect them to return all your money. Keep dreaming
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by khodalmd View Post
If H1B holder work here and get 40 credits (10 years), do not have USA green card/Citizenship and go back to India, he/she will not get any SS or medicare benefits after 65Y. If US citizen decided to go back to India, he/she will get SS and Medicare after 65 (Subject to more than 40 credits)..
Here is further explanation disputing what you just said-->directly from social security website
If you are not a U.S. citizen or a citizen of one of the other countries listed above, your payments will stop after you have been outside the United States for six full calendar months unless you meet one of the following exceptions:

You were eligible for monthly Social Security benefits for December 1956; or
You are in the active military or naval service of the United States; or
The worker on whose record your benefits are based had railroad work treated as covered employment by the Social Security program; or
The worker on whose record your benefits are based died while in the U.S. military service or as a result of a service-connected disability and was not dishonorably discharged; or
You are a resident of a country with which the United States has a Social Security agreement.

Currently, these countries are:
Australia, Austria Belgium Canada Chile Czech Republic Denmark Finland France Germany
Greece Ireland Italy Japan Korea (South) Luxembourg Netherlands Norway Poland Portugal Spain Sweden Switzerland United Kingdom

or You are a citizen of one of the countries listed below, and the worker on whose record your benefits are based lived in the United States for at least 10 years or earned at least 40 credits under the U.S. Social Security system. If you are receiving benefits as a dependent or survivor, see additional requirements.

Afghanistan Australia Bangladesh Bhutan Botswana Burma Burundi Cameroon Cape Verde
Central African Republic Chad China Congo, Rep. of Ethiopia Fiji Gambia Ghana Haiti Honduras India Indonesia Kenya Laos Lebanon Lesotho Liberia Madagascar Malawi Malaysia Mali Mauritania Mauritius Morocco Nepal Nigeria Pakistan St. Vincent & renadines Senegal Sierra Leone Singapore Solomon Islands Somalia South Africa
Sri Lanka Sudan Swaziland Taiwan Tanzania Thailand Togo Tonga Tunisia Uganda
Yemen
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by snthampi View Post
So, you are saying that if I accumulate 40 credits and go back to India, I will get SS from the US in retirement age?
Retire To India: Social security for Overseas retirees

If you are not a US citizen, your eligibility to receive social security benefits depends on which country you are a citizen of. [If you are an Indian citizen, you are eligible to receive benefits provided you have lived in the US for at least 10 years or earned at least 40 credits under the social security system.]

This is a reply from a guy who started getting recently
"HI NIgel,
This blog is excellent. Thanks a lot for your valuable comments about ss benefits. After seeing this I applied for my ss benefits and I am getting them. I am not a us citizen and I dont have the green card now.
I have the necessary 40 credits.
They are withholding 30% of the 85% benefits. Is this correct?
thanks"
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viji76 View Post
Retire To India: Social security for Overseas retirees

If you are not a US citizen, your eligibility to receive social security benefits depends on which country you are a citizen of. [If you are an Indian citizen, you are eligible to receive benefits provided you have lived in the US for at least 10 years or earned at least 40 credits under the social security system.]

This is a reply from a guy who started getting recently
"HI NIgel,
This blog is excellent. Thanks a lot for your valuable comments about ss benefits. After seeing this I applied for my ss benefits and I am getting them. I am not a us citizen and I dont have the green card now.
I have the necessary 40 credits.
They are withholding 30% of the 85% benefits. Is this correct?
thanks"
On a completely different side, everyone gets the same amount or based on their current salary? Maybe a dumb Q, but just curious.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicy_guy View Post
On a completely different side, everyone gets the same amount or based on their current salary? Maybe a dumb Q, but just curious.
The formula is complex and tapered.

As an example:
Average of 35 years highest earning is taken. So suppose $5000 is monthly average. Then in one of the years it was computed like:

90% of $606 + 32% of upto $3653 + 15% above $3653 = $1813 (Ignore errors, just to give some rough idea)

For a person with monthly $10000, the amount would be = $2563 (Ignore errors, just to give some rough idea)

For a person with monthly $2000, the amount would be = $1033 (Ignore errors, , just to give some rough idea)

This is just to give some idea.

So the keywords are LIKE average monthly of 35 highest earning years, then 90% of some amount, then 35% of some amount and then 15% of rest amount. The formula is updated frequently.




With this formula, someone who worked in US for 10 years, with monthly of 6000, may get around $900+ per month and with 10000 monthly, it could be around $1300+.


Also, as far as I know, non working spouse, who stayed for five+ years in US would get 50% of primary at the retirement age.
__________________
PD: 03/10/2005, EB2-I, I485 approved on 07/14/2010

Last edited by Dhundhun; 03-27-2010 at 07:40 PM.
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