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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2009, 07:40 PM
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Default Grim Outlook for EB Visa Numbers

Why should we punish people who play by the rules? Charles Oppenheim, Guru of the Visa Office in the State Department, has confirmed what we warned employment-based (EB) immigrants about in our June 2009 newsletter. Not only are EB-3 numbers unavailable for the rest of the fiscal year and EB-2 numbers for persons born in China and India oversubscribed, but the situation is going to get worse, much worse. Mr. Oppenheim states that the EB-1, EB-4 and EB-5 categories are all experiencing greatly increased demand, so much so that the EB-4 category (religious workers and special immigrants) may retrogress this...

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Old 06-10-2009, 11:29 PM
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Default Punishment for legal immigrants?

Don't think of it as punishment. The US wants to allow a certain number of people to immigrate each year. The demand far outstrips the supply. That's where the problem is.

There are two ways to address this:
  1. Increase the supply
  2. Decrease the demand

Those are the only two ways. One option would be to go for a points based system that awards the limited visas to those with the best qualifications or where the need is greatest. After all the US is in a "buyer's market" and can pick and choose those immigrants that add most to the country.

The other option (which is at present politically infeasible) is to increase the annual immigrant quotas. Tough to support this in a recession with 10% unemployment.

I'm not sure you can characterize this as unfair... ultimately it is left to the US to determine how many people they want immigrating.
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Old 06-11-2009, 02:49 AM
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Default how succint

ratturani, i am seeing an increasing number of posts that state the facts as clearly as you have stated... thats great... now i think somewhere some day, someone will float a good idea of motivating employers such as MS, Intel, BAC etc to fight for us instead of trying to motivate only the congress... see, we dont have too much of power in congress... :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by RattuRani View Post
Don't think of it as punishment. The US wants to allow a certain number of people to immigrate each year. The demand far outstrips the supply. That's where the problem is.

There are two ways to address this:
  1. Increase the supply
  2. Decrease the demand

Those are the only two ways. One option would be to go for a points based system that awards the limited visas to those with the best qualifications or where the need is greatest. After all the US is in a "buyer's market" and can pick and choose those immigrants that add most to the country.

The other option (which is at present politically infeasible) is to increase the annual immigrant quotas. Tough to support this in a recession with 10% unemployment.

I'm not sure you can characterize this as unfair... ultimately it is left to the US to determine how many people they want immigrating.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_shark View Post
ratturani, i am seeing an increasing number of posts that state the facts as clearly as you have stated... thats great... now i think somewhere some day, someone will float a good idea of motivating employers such as MS, Intel, BAC etc to fight for us instead of trying to motivate only the congress... see, we dont have too much of power in congress... :-(
The earlier people realize it the better it is. GC for non EB 1 - India is over.

Employer will get motivated only when they feel the need. As of now they dont need EB reform as H1B is serving the purpose. Its like chasing a mirage in the desert. My friends who didnt chase GC are the ones doing professionally well. Those who have stayed on the GC boat have seen their careers stagnate and destroyed.

However I have still seen many Indians in US oblivious or ignorant about it including my cousin.
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Old 06-11-2009, 06:13 AM
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Default Oppenheimer signalling all of us to return

At least Mr Oppenheimer has told the truth that it is curtains for EB2 and EB3 India and China and brought all the hopefuls to the ground . Passing CIR is a distant dream.

Thank you Mr Oppenheimer ! At least you had the guys to spell out the bitter truth , so that we could plan accordingly and plan our return .
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by arnab221 View Post
At least Mr Oppenheimer has told the truth that it is curtains for EB2 and EB3 India and China and brought all the hopefuls to the ground . Passing CIR is a distant dream.

Thank you Mr Oppenheimer ! At least you had the guys to spell out the bitter truth , so that we could plan accordingly and plan our return .
Yes true. In fact people on EAD are going to be on EAD for a long long time.
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Last edited by go_guy123; 06-11-2009 at 09:39 AM.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by chi_shark View Post
ratturani, i am seeing an increasing number of posts that state the facts as clearly as you have stated... thats great... now i think somewhere some day, someone will float a good idea of motivating employers such as MS, Intel, BAC etc to fight for us instead of trying to motivate only the congress... see, we dont have too much of power in congress... :-(
very good points.
this is what we do till infinity ...discuss discuss discuss.
open more threads, discuss discuss discuss.
end.
we discuss more than the congress.


let us come with small numerous campaigns to highlight the contributions of legal immigrants..atleast that will prevent people from getting bored
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:07 PM
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Default Right on the Money

Agree 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiralal View Post
very good points.
this is what we do till infinity ...discuss discuss discuss.
open more threads, discuss discuss discuss.
end.
we discuss more than the congress.


let us come with small numerous campaigns to highlight the contributions of legal immigrants..atleast that will prevent people from getting bored
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009, 05:29 PM
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USA needs people with qualifications and skills.

Sooner they learn it, the better.
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Old 06-11-2009, 07:11 PM
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To be honest, I do agree that the US needs qualified people with skillsets. The real question is "Are the people from the desi consulting companies the real qualified lot ? " Just to get my background details out of the way. I am a new member, from India ofcourse, and I have recently applied for my citizenship. Now with this huge deluge of immigrants, especially from the desi consulting companies, I feel that my quality of life is getting adversely impacted. Do not rush to conclusions that I am anti Indian or anti immigrant. 12 years back when I first got my H1 visa, the requirements to qualify were strict. Staffing companies to a decent extent followed rules and tried to get the best and the brightest. Once the dot com boom started, people from all walks of life entered IT. This was true of not just the Indians but also of people in the US. Soon after the bust, the value proposition from these staffing companies was simply low cost. This is not to blame the staffing companies. They behaved in an economically rational way.

Consider this scenario. If you run a consulting company, wouldn't you try to maximize your profits by staffing people in projects at the least cost ? This is econmically rational. You wouldn't worry much about the quality of the deliverables and all you would care is to dump as many bodies as possible at the client site or offshore and get the maximum bang for the buck.

In this scenario, how is it feasible to expect immigrational justice when the bodies themselves dont provide exceptional talent and skills but simply offer low cost ? Now you would be tempted to bring in the analogous case of illegal low skilled immigrants. Remember they are just that - low skilled workers. They dont "steal" the jobs of high skilled workers. But this dumping of IT workforce has completely brought down the standard of living of the IT workers here. To be honest, those who get green cards today would feel the same way five years from now when the next wave of so called "skilled IT immigrants" offer even lower wages and destroy the quality of life.

In summary, this retrogression is good in a way. The truly best and the brightest would still be employed until their turn for adjournment comes in. Only the weak are currently scared of the delays. I went through the same torrid GC phase after the tech meltdown in 2001. I was not worried of my job then but many people whom I knew got clobbered and were forced to leave. This is the darwinian flush and it will take its toll. Trust me this the bitter truth. If you people still consider that all the people on H1/L1 are part of the best and the brightest, they are WRONG. Only a small % (probably 20%) are the true best and the brightest and a good 50% will be flushed out. Sorry to say this and hey give me the red dots.
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilipcr View Post
To be honest, I do agree that the US needs qualified people with skillsets. The real question is "Are the people from the desi consulting companies the real qualified lot ? " Just to get my background details out of the way. I am a new member, from India ofcourse, and I have recently applied for my citizenship. Now with this huge deluge of immigrants, especially from the desi consulting companies, I feel that my quality of life is getting adversely impacted. Do not rush to conclusions that I am anti Indian or anti immigrant. 12 years back when I first got my H1 visa, the requirements to qualify were strict. Staffing companies to a decent extent followed rules and tried to get the best and the brightest. Once the dot com boom started, people from all walks of life entered IT. This was true of not just the Indians but also of people in the US. Soon after the bust, the value proposition from these staffing companies was simply low cost. This is not to blame the staffing companies. They behaved in an economically rational way.

Consider this scenario. If you run a consulting company, wouldn't you try to maximize your profits by staffing people in projects at the least cost ? This is econmically rational. You wouldn't worry much about the quality of the deliverables and all you would care is to dump as many bodies as possible at the client site or offshore and get the maximum bang for the buck.

In this scenario, how is it feasible to expect immigrational justice when the bodies themselves dont provide exceptional talent and skills but simply offer low cost ? Now you would be tempted to bring in the analogous case of illegal low skilled immigrants. Remember they are just that - low skilled workers. They dont "steal" the jobs of high skilled workers. But this dumping of IT workforce has completely brought down the standard of living of the IT workers here. To be honest, those who get green cards today would feel the same way five years from now when the next wave of so called "skilled IT immigrants" offer even lower wages and destroy the quality of life.

In summary, this retrogression is good in a way. The truly best and the brightest would still be employed until their turn for adjournment comes in. Only the weak are currently scared of the delays. I went through the same torrid GC phase after the tech meltdown in 2001. I was not worried of my job then but many people whom I knew got clobbered and were forced to leave. This is the darwinian flush and it will take its toll. Trust me this the bitter truth. If you people still consider that all the people on H1/L1 are part of the best and the brightest, they are WRONG. Only a small % (probably 20%) are the true best and the brightest and a good 50% will be flushed out. Sorry to say this and hey give me the red dots.
With this kind of attitude, I wonder what fresh ideas or "bright" ideas you bring to the table and how qualified you are to say this. Enjoy your LUCK and thats it. You are no more qualified.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:09 PM
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Default be careful what you wish for

"Now with this huge deluge of immigrants, especially from the desi consulting companies, I feel that my quality of life is getting adversely impacted. Do not rush to conclusions that I am anti Indian or anti immigrant. 12 years back when I first got my H1 visa, the requirements to qualify were strict. "

i am not interested in giving red or blue dots but i do hope your citizenship application gets stuck in a processing delay, you too will then realize the implication of your so called Darwinian flush As they say...when it happens to others its a recession, when it happens to you it turns into a depression...good luck..

I hope your post did not imply that the ones who got GC's were the 'brightest and the best'.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:24 PM
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Congrats, you have arrived. Now, somebody, close the door please !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dilipcr View Post
To be honest, I do agree that the US needs qualified people with skillsets. The real question is "Are the people from the desi consulting companies the real qualified lot ? " Just to get my background details out of the way. I am a new member, from India ofcourse, and I have recently applied for my citizenship. Now with this huge deluge of immigrants, especially from the desi consulting companies, I feel that my quality of life is getting adversely impacted. Do not rush to conclusions that I am anti Indian or anti immigrant. 12 years back when I first got my H1 visa, the requirements to qualify were strict. Staffing companies to a decent extent followed rules and tried to get the best and the brightest. Once the dot com boom started, people from all walks of life entered IT. This was true of not just the Indians but also of people in the US. Soon after the bust, the value proposition from these staffing companies was simply low cost. This is not to blame the staffing companies. They behaved in an economically rational way.

Consider this scenario. If you run a consulting company, wouldn't you try to maximize your profits by staffing people in projects at the least cost ? This is econmically rational. You wouldn't worry much about the quality of the deliverables and all you would care is to dump as many bodies as possible at the client site or offshore and get the maximum bang for the buck.

In this scenario, how is it feasible to expect immigrational justice when the bodies themselves dont provide exceptional talent and skills but simply offer low cost ? Now you would be tempted to bring in the analogous case of illegal low skilled immigrants. Remember they are just that - low skilled workers. They dont "steal" the jobs of high skilled workers. But this dumping of IT workforce has completely brought down the standard of living of the IT workers here. To be honest, those who get green cards today would feel the same way five years from now when the next wave of so called "skilled IT immigrants" offer even lower wages and destroy the quality of life.

In summary, this retrogression is good in a way. The truly best and the brightest would still be employed until their turn for adjournment comes in. Only the weak are currently scared of the delays. I went through the same torrid GC phase after the tech meltdown in 2001. I was not worried of my job then but many people whom I knew got clobbered and were forced to leave. This is the darwinian flush and it will take its toll. Trust me this the bitter truth. If you people still consider that all the people on H1/L1 are part of the best and the brightest, they are WRONG. Only a small % (probably 20%) are the true best and the brightest and a good 50% will be flushed out. Sorry to say this and hey give me the red dots.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2009, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilipcr View Post
To be honest, I do agree that the US needs qualified people with skillsets. The real question is "Are the people from the desi consulting companies the real qualified lot ? " Just to get my background details out of the way. I am a new member, from India ofcourse, and I have recently applied for my citizenship. Now with this huge deluge of immigrants, especially from the desi consulting companies, I feel that my quality of life is getting adversely impacted. Do not rush to conclusions that I am anti Indian or anti immigrant. 12 years back when I first got my H1 visa, the requirements to qualify were strict. Staffing companies to a decent extent followed rules and tried to get the best and the brightest. Once the dot com boom started, people from all walks of life entered IT. This was true of not just the Indians but also of people in the US. Soon after the bust, the value proposition from these staffing companies was simply low cost. This is not to blame the staffing companies. They behaved in an economically rational way.

Consider this scenario. If you run a consulting company, wouldn't you try to maximize your profits by staffing people in projects at the least cost ? This is econmically rational. You wouldn't worry much about the quality of the deliverables and all you would care is to dump as many bodies as possible at the client site or offshore and get the maximum bang for the buck.

In this scenario, how is it feasible to expect immigrational justice when the bodies themselves dont provide exceptional talent and skills but simply offer low cost ? Now you would be tempted to bring in the analogous case of illegal low skilled immigrants. Remember they are just that - low skilled workers. They dont "steal" the jobs of high skilled workers. But this dumping of IT workforce has completely brought down the standard of living of the IT workers here. To be honest, those who get green cards today would feel the same way five years from now when the next wave of so called "skilled IT immigrants" offer even lower wages and destroy the quality of life.

In summary, this retrogression is good in a way. The truly best and the brightest would still be employed until their turn for adjournment comes in. Only the weak are currently scared of the delays. I went through the same torrid GC phase after the tech meltdown in 2001. I was not worried of my job then but many people whom I knew got clobbered and were forced to leave. This is the darwinian flush and it will take its toll. Trust me this the bitter truth. If you people still consider that all the people on H1/L1 are part of the best and the brightest, they are WRONG. Only a small % (probably 20%) are the true best and the brightest and a good 50% will be flushed out. Sorry to say this and hey give me the red dots.


Dilip Dude,
As said before by unseenguy, your case is just plain LUCK, if there was no bill during 1999-2000 to recapture and increase GC quota, you would have been still struck in BEC counting days for GC,forget Citizenship. Just because you are over qualified(or under!) than others does not make you special or get you GC faster, you just had some good KARMA, thats it...

Anyways, your attitude of blaming others(h1/l1 etc.) for decrease in your quality of life is just plain STUPID and shows your maturity.

I wish you are not in a managerial position, I have seen many Desi managers like you who give hard time to fellow Desi folks working under them thinking they rule the world and they are the only qualified one who knows all.

My advice is wish good for others not bad, this will get you more good karma and maybe get your citizenship faster.. :-)
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 485Mbe4001 View Post
"Now with this huge deluge of immigrants, especially from the desi consulting companies, I feel that my quality of life is getting adversely impacted. Do not rush to conclusions that I am anti Indian or anti immigrant. 12 years back when I first got my H1 visa, the requirements to qualify were strict. "

i am not interested in giving red or blue dots but i do hope your citizenship application gets stuck in a processing delay, you too will then realize the implication of your so called Darwinian flush As they say...when it happens to others its a recession, when it happens to you it turns into a depression...good luck..

I hope your post did not imply that the ones who got GC's were the 'brightest and the best'.
My intention was not to devalue the merits of the incoming batch of immigrants. As I said, around 20% of the group are truly the best and the brightest. This was the case after the dotcom crash and will most likely be the case going forward. We had the same delays, retrogressions , guaranteed employment verification RFEs etc. Immigrationportal.com used to be the immigrationvoice of the times. I do not see much difference for the techies between what was then and what is going on now in terms of delays. I see 2 dramatic changes though
1. People arent patient enough during these times. You would agree to the amount of venting going on in this site.
2. The incessant dumping of low cost of L1s by the outsourcing companies.

If you think through deeply, the second point is what is causing all the heartburn among the people waiting for their GCs. Believe me. All these extrapolated timelines that scream that getting GC today would take 10 years are all bogus. These headlines were the same then too. I can confidently say that the GC process will move fast within a year's time once the layoffs stop. It is just that can you survive till the govt policies become more rational ? That is where the argument about the best and the brightest come into place. If you are one, you would survive this and you will get your GC within 3 years. Honestly, my ntention was to calm the nerves of those people genuinely talented and waiting for their GCs. If I had missed out on that count, I think I should improve my communication. The arwinian flush was just to highlight that fact.
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