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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2006, 01:16 AM
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shivaz90 will become famous soon enough
Default "Back of the Line" - What is that supposed to mean?

So what does " Back of the line" mean in this new Immigration Bill terminology? I am not sure if it was included but I hear almost all Senators and President Bush included keeps mentioning that the "Illegal Aliens" should go to the "Back of the Line".

Now there have been various interpretation of this - namely:
(1) Go back to the line of Green Card - after all the 330,000 legal applicants?
(2) Go back to the line of Citizenship - after all the 12 year waiting list of Philippine or Botswanian or Indian immigrant waiting back in thier homeland to get into USA legally ( as a Citizen).

From what I've seen/heard/understood so far about this "back of the line" business - it appears that the illegal aliens would be given the (2) approach - where they would get thier green card before all legally waiting Green cards and also be in front of everyone in terms of Citizenship. So where's the fairness here?


May be we could all benefit by becoming illegal so that we can be clubbed as part of the amnesty program.

Any thoughts? or Am I the only one who's ranting and missing something?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2006, 09:51 AM
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kanvenk is on a distinguished road
Default S-2611

So, it is a good news that, S-2611 has passed in the Senate. How long would it take to pass the same bill in Congress as well as get it signed by President??
Could anybody shed some light on this.
We appreciate your time.
Thank you.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2006, 11:10 AM
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msp1976 will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaz90
So what does " Back of the line" mean in this new Immigration Bill terminology? I am not sure if it was included but I hear almost all Senators and President Bush included keeps mentioning that the "Illegal Aliens" should go to the "Back of the Line".

Now there have been various interpretation of this - namely:
(1) Go back to the line of Green Card - after all the 330,000 legal applicants?
(2) Go back to the line of Citizenship - after all the 12 year waiting list of Philippine or Botswanian or Indian immigrant waiting back in thier homeland to get into USA legally ( as a Citizen).

From what I've seen/heard/understood so far about this "back of the line" business - it appears that the illegal aliens would be given the (2) approach - where they would get thier green card before all legally waiting Green cards and also be in front of everyone in terms of Citizenship. So where's the fairness here?


May be we could all benefit by becoming illegal so that we can be clubbed as part of the amnesty program.

Any thoughts? or Am I the only one who's ranting and missing something?
At present we have no idea what that exactly means..It could very well mean that the USCIS would receive 10 million applications for legalization and even if your application is at the start of the line, the line would not move at all...

At present the future of the bill is still not certain....So let's not get worked up.....First step is let the bill get through ...otherwise all the rest of the discussion is meaningless....

It would be good for us legal to get the illegal amnesty dropped from the bill but we donot want to fight the pro immigration people who want higher low skilled immigration + higher high skilled immigration...IV does not have a position on the illegal immigration issue on purpose......


Please support and donate to IV
so that IV can work for you in the meanwhile to get a favourable outcome from the conference......

Last edited by msp1976; 05-30-2006 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 05-30-2006, 11:18 AM
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msp1976 will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanvenk
So, it is a good news that, S-2611 has passed in the Senate. How long would it take to pass the same bill in Congress as well as get it signed by President??
Could anybody shed some light on this.
We appreciate your time.
Thank you.
House has already passed their bill...
Now there is conference committee..
After that bill goes to president....

But the bill might get stuck in conference forever...The bill itself has a provision for a 90 days delay in implementation...So it could be 4/5 months from now to never......

Please support and donate to IV so that IV can work for you in the meanwhile to get a favourable outcome from the conference......
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2006, 11:25 AM
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shivaz90 will become famous soon enough
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I am not unduly bothered about the amnesty granted to illegal aliens - but my concern arises out of the situation where inspite of relief measures in the bill - people who are stuck in Backlog centers will get left behind in all the chaos.

This is a valid issue and irrespective of wether the bill materialises or not, this is something that most of the immigrants like us should be worried about. The bill does mention clearing the backlog in not more than 270 days (180 + 90) from the passage of the bill - but with the way things have gone so far with DOL - I would assume that its a pipe dream.
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Old 05-30-2006, 12:48 PM
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ny-nonrir is on a distinguished road
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaz90
I am not unduly bothered about the amnesty granted to illegal aliens - but my concern arises out of the situation where inspite of relief measures in the bill - people who are stuck in Backlog centers will get left behind in all the chaos.

This is a valid issue and irrespective of wether the bill materialises or not, this is something that most of the immigrants like us should be worried about. The bill does mention clearing the backlog in not more than 270 days (180 + 90) from the passage of the bill - but with the way things have gone so far with DOL - I would assume that its a pipe dream.

But if it becomes "THE LAW"... then they dont have a choice do they?
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2006, 03:40 PM
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Berkeleybee is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaz90
So what does " Back of the line" mean in this new Immigration Bill terminology? I am not sure if it was included but I hear almost all Senators and President Bush included keeps mentioning that the "Illegal Aliens" should go to the "Back of the Line".

Now there have been various interpretation of this - namely:
(1) Go back to the line of Green Card - after all the 330,000 legal applicants?
(2) Go back to the line of Citizenship - after all the 12 year waiting list of Philippine or Botswanian or Indian immigrant waiting back in thier homeland to get into USA legally ( as a Citizen).

From what I've seen/heard/understood so far about this "back of the line" business - it appears that the illegal aliens would be given the (2) approach - where they would get thier green card before all legally waiting Green cards and also be in front of everyone in terms of Citizenship. So where's the fairness here?


May be we could all benefit by becoming illegal so that we can be clubbed as part of the amnesty program.

Any thoughts? or Am I the only one who's ranting and missing something?
Shivaz90,

Just to clarify msp1976's post is not IV's interpretation.

Back of the Line

The fully amended text is not yet available, but based on S. 2611 pre-amendments:

Under section 601(b)(I), they cannot adjust status until "consideration of all applications" (EB, FB, all) filed before the date the Act is passed, OR 8 years after the act is passed.
"Consideration of all applications" could be interpreted as adjudication, or at least processing.

So the answer is, yes, the *intent* is to put them at the back of the *current* line. As a practical matter, under S. 2611 they will be able to file for adjustment of status at the end of 8 years. It is unlikely that family category backlog will be cleared in 8 years (some FB categories are stuck in 1994), so they may be able to file before certain family categories.

So if you are an EB applicant with a pending application, no undocumented worker who is legalizing is about to get ahead of you.

Also, remember that all of this will be irrelevant if no bill passes -- so we need to focus on getting a compromise bill out of Congress.

Please don't fall into the divide and rule, us against them trap that anti-immigrants are setting up.

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2006, 03:57 PM
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Default Absolutely meaningless

"Back of the line" means nothing.

We can't even get a proper FIFO processing for our own EB categories. I know someone who filed in 2003 getting his GC in 2005! What line did he go thru? I found out that he luckily got a substituted labour dated in 2000...
and plus he's not from one of those 4 heavily backlogged nations in the PD chart.

To me "the line" is this: regardless of which country you are from, or what low-skill / high-skill occupation you are in.... if you file in 2003, you DON'T get your GC until everyone before 2003 filing gets processed and approved/denied first!

Unfortunately, that kind of line isn't going to appear... the US has got too many categories and alphabets in the system.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2006, 04:04 PM
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Berkeleybee is on a distinguished road
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufo2002
"Back of the line" means nothing.

We can't even get a proper FIFO processing for our own EB categories. I know someone who filed in 2003 getting his GC in 2005! What line did he go thru? I found out that he luckily got a substituted labour dated in 2000...
and plus he's not from one of those 4 heavily backlogged nations in the PD chart.

To me "the line" is this: regardless of which country you are from, or what low-skill / high-skill occupation you are in.... if you file in 2003, you DON'T get your GC until everyone before 2003 filing gets processed and approved/denied first!

Unfortunately, that kind of line isn't going to appear... the US has got too many categories and alphabets in the system.
Well then, perhaps people should say undocumented workers can't adjust status till the alphabet soup of applications that is pending when the Act is passed OR 8 yrs whichever is sooner.

Don't get caught up in the semantics and don't get caught up in the Us Against Them mentality. Please.

best,
Berkeleybee
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2006, 04:22 PM
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What is the definition of an "EB applicant with a pending application". Is it those applicants who have a pending I-140 application? OR does it also include those 340K applicants whose labor certification (LC) applications are stuck in the BECs?

The distinction is important because, if the all pending EB I-140s and I-485s get cleared BEFORE DOL clears up the LCs in the BECs, the LC applicants stuck in the BECs will have to compete with the deluge of non EB I-485 applicants.

I guess if we know the numbers of pending EB I-140/I-485s in CIS -- that will help us figure out if this scenario is possible..
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Old 05-30-2006, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berkeleybee
Under section 601(b)(I), they cannot adjust status until "consideration of all applications" (EB, FB, all) filed before the date the Act is passed, OR 8 years after the act is passed.
This is very open to interpretation. Does "Cannot adjust" mean "Cannot file 140"? If they can file 140 but not file 485, then they still may beat a lot of ppl to the gates. For example
if the bill becomes law on 1/1/07 and I am stuck at a BEC on that day (my PD is 8/2001 by the way. yes really!!!) and all the illegal aliens file 140 on that day, does'nt that mean I get stuck behind 12 million applications? At that point it really does nt matter to me that they cannot get their GCs for another 8 years(neither can I). Hope they think about all these technicalities when implementing these laws.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2006, 04:48 PM
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shivaz90 will become famous soon enough
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Berkeleybee,

Thanks for the clarification.

As I had mentioned earlier I don't give a cent of thought on what privilege the illegal aliens are going to get - but am really concerned on "how" they get it and at who's expense they get it. It is the fairness of the system that I am questioning and in no means should it be construed as a divisive arguement.

IMHO - this is an issue and needs to be discussed in the context that the bill would be passed. If the bill is not passed - I am sure everyone understands that its a hollow discussion. By discussing the issue in the forum - we ensure that valid agenda's are taken up by the people concerned who represent us and thats precisely what a forum is for.

Thanks again for highlighting and clarifying the "back of the line" issue.
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Old 05-30-2006, 05:05 PM
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Berkeleybee is on a distinguished road
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ny-nonrir
This is very open to interpretation. Does "Cannot adjust" mean "Cannot file 140"? If they can file 140 but not file 485, then they still may beat a lot of ppl to the gates. For example
if the bill becomes law on 1/1/07 and I am stuck at a BEC on that day (my PD is 8/2001 by the way. yes really!!!) and all the illegal aliens file 140 on that day, does'nt that mean I get stuck behind 12 million applications? At that point it really does nt matter to me that they cannot get their GCs for another 8 years(neither can I). Hope they think about all these technicalities when implementing these laws.
Nonrir,

(1) First of all, no undocumented worker can file for anything on the day the law is passed since they have to prove that they were employed for at least 3 years during the 5 year period ending in Apr 5, 2006 AND FOR 6 years after 2006. Even in 2012, they will have to work on coming up with proof of all this.


(2) It is a fair question to ask if they can file I-140 -- we have to see what the final amended text says -- but the sense of the Senate is that they cannot file an immigration petition.

(3) About labor certs -- the current provisions labor certs pending before March 28, 2005 have to be cleared in at least 270 days after the Act passes. Until now DOL has set targets but there was no law forcing them to stick to any deadline and no federal oversight into their activities. This is well before the 2006+8 yrs and a possible I-140 filing 2006 + 6 yrs.

(4) There will be rule making by USCIS that will determine how all this is implemented.

(5) Even more important we will need appropriations bills that enable USCIS to expand enough to handle the increased yearly quotas even just for EB applicants -- Sen Harry Reid discussed this in his closing remarks -- that the President and Congress need to step up to the plate and make this bill implementable. Once the bill passes, IV needs to start working on such appropriations measures also.

Please remember that any provision that applies to undocumented workers in the Senate version can be remade completely in the conference committee. So don't get too attached to any of these provisions.

I urge you not to get into the zero sum game, Us Against Them mentality -- it is totally non-constructive and apart from giving you an ulcer it doesn't serve any purpose - apart from giving satisfaction to those who would like to pursue a Divide and Rule agenda.

Last edited by Berkeleybee; 05-30-2006 at 05:20 PM.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2006, 05:16 PM
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msp1976 will become famous soon enough
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The following are my opinions...Not IV position..

In a way having the legaliazation of illegals provision in the bill can help our cause...The opponents of the bill would spend much of their energy in opposing the amnesty..So when the legal immigration comes up for discussion they would have spent their energy and provisions helping us would keep under the radar would never be discussed too much and slip through get into final bill....

But the logjam situation that the legalization would create can harm us a lot..Even if the illegal cannot adjust status immedialtely...they are all are supposed to file some sort of application to prove illegibility for amnesty...Those applications 10-12 million of them could eat up all USCIS resourcess.There would be 10-12 million EAD applications..Then we would get stuck even if we are at the 'start' of the 'said line'....We would be sitting in the line for 5-6 more y ears...

This sitiation is tricky....

Last edited by msp1976; 05-30-2006 at 05:19 PM.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2006, 05:24 PM
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Berkeleybee is on a distinguished road
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msp1976
The following are my opinions...Not IV position..

In a way having the legaliazation of illegals provision in the bill can help our cause...The opponents of the bill would spend much of their energy in opposing the amnesty..So when the legal immigration comes up for discussion they would have spent their energy and provisions helping us would keep under the radar would never be discussed too much and slip through get into final bill....

But the logjam situation that the legalization would create can harm us a lot..Even if the illegal cannot adjust status immedialtely...they are all are supposed to file some sort of application to prove illegibility for amnesty...Those applications 10-12 million of them could eat up all USCIS resourcess.There would be 10-12 million EAD applications..Then we would get stuck even if we are at the 'start' of the 'said line'....We would be sitting in the line for 5-6 more y ears...

This sitiation is tricky....
All,

Can we just hold on to our horses and stop speculating before reading the fully amended text or [dear lord] at least the pre-amended text? Little knowledge is dangerous... I'm begging the instapundits to please read the entirety of the text and not snippets that don't tell you the whole story.

All you'll do is start rumors and give people unnecessary anxiety attacks.

Mps1976 -- They cannot file 'some sort of application to prove eligibility" right away-- cos they won't be eligible till 2006+6yrs anyway -- read Section 601(b)(C).



best,
Berkeleybee
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