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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2006, 02:19 PM
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Default They should be paying us to accept GC

I am not kidding. I am not trying to be audacious. This isnt over the top.

Actually, if you read the article below, you will
think that the USCIS should pay us for accepting their
Green-cards and agreeing to stay here in USA. Sounds
Crazy? It wont after you read this.(from Yahoo)

Quote:
"And let's not forget about immigrants. The workers
who move to the U.S. each year bring with them a
mother lode of education and skills -- human capital
-- for free. One celebrated example is Jonathan Ive,
the man who designed the iPod and iMac. Ive was born
in England and educated at Newcastle Polytechnic
University of Northumbria before joining Apple
Computer Inc. in California in 1992.
Ive is not unique. Most of the workers who immigrate
to the U.S. each year have at least a high school
diploma, while about a third have a college education
or better. Since it costs, on average, roughly
$100,000 to provide 12 years of elementary and
secondary education, and another $100,000 to pay for a
college degree, immigrants are providing a subsidy of
at least $50 billion annually to the U.S. economy in
free human capital. Alternatively, valuing their
contribution to the economy by the total wages they
expect to earn during their lifetime would put the
value of the human capital of new immigrants closer to
$200 billion per year. Either the low or high estimate
would make the current account deficit look smaller."
http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/060203/b3971001.html?.v=1

This is true. I read somewhere many years ago that IITs in India spend atleast 20 to 30 thousand dollars for each student that graduates with B.Tech. 75% of IIT grads are here in USA. Its India's loss. And USA's gain. And yet, we have nonsense like backlogs and expiring fingerprints.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2006, 03:05 PM
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Default

Great point logic life. Now if only all the lawmakers could get this point.

The US govt needn't even have to pay us the money. Even if the government raises the fees to $10,000 but makes this process very transparent and easy, I think most of us/our companies will be willing to pay it up.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2006, 03:30 PM
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Question And what about the Social Security and Medicare taxes that we pay

Quote:
Originally Posted by admin
Great point logic life. Now if only all the lawmakers could get this point.

The US govt needn't even have to pay us the money. Even if the government raises the fees to $10,000 but makes this process very transparent and easy, I think most of us/our companies will be willing to pay it up.
We all pay medicare and social security taxes. Considering there are 65000 applicants per year and for the last 5 years there are 65000*5 = 325000 applicants


Now if each of these guys is earning about 50K (fairly conservative estimate), all these H1B visa holders earn about $16.25 Billion among themselves.

Social Security and Medicare taxes on this amount would definitely run into hundred of millions of dollars.

Nothing wrong with that. The problem lies in the fact that due to the number of EB visas and per country limits, a lot of these H1 visa holders cannot/do not end up with a green card.

Shouldn't this be refunded to the folks not getting the green card?
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Old 02-03-2006, 04:40 PM
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Default

The facts given in this article can also be quoted in the presentation to lawmakers or the link can be included.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2006, 04:52 PM
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Default please recall what i have been saying for long time

I'm glad that you are also in the same line of thought with me
being more realistic, i have given the dollar amount (in my previous postings for S1932) we contribute to this economy.
Once again "when ever you present a real dollar amount to the law maker, they simply love to see that as a snap shot " & that makes the difference.

I have personally done this before at least 3 times in Kansas to present our case to the congressman and please let me know if you need assistance in this matter


Quote:
Originally Posted by ragz4u
We all pay medicare and social security taxes. Considering there are 65000 applicants per year and for the last 5 years there are 65000*5 = 325000 applicants


Now if each of these guys is earning about 50K (fairly conservative estimate), all these H1B visa holders earn about $16.25 Billion among themselves.

Social Security and Medicare taxes on this amount would definitely run into hundred of millions of dollars.

Nothing wrong with that. The problem lies in the fact that due to the number of EB visas and per country limits, a lot of these H1 visa holders cannot/do not end up with a green card.

Shouldn't this be refunded to the folks not getting the green card?
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Old 02-03-2006, 05:33 PM
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Default Your experience would be

greatly valued.

Please contact black_logs as he is organizing the drive for meeting the lawmakers. I guess you may have done that already, but if not, please do so. Your experience will help us a lot.

IN the meantime, please feel free to use webfaxes.

--logiclife.
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Old 02-04-2006, 02:00 AM
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pkpalta is on a distinguished road
Talking American Dream (or Green Card Nightmare)

Guys,

I have been watching you guys and I appreciate your efforts, enthusiam and hope to get permanent residency. I have also talked to few guys about this and to my surprise most of them do not want fight for permanent residency. They just "ignore" the happenings at INS.

I want to return with my social security dollars (at least $50k nice enough in India for a good down payment)

Also, Is there a way a person can file a lawsuit against the government to get the social security money back. I'm convinced that even if I wait here for another 5 years I would not be able to get GC. Unless the Congress does not remove the "racism" of "per country limit" it is unrealistic that the problem would be solved by any bill. In my opinion, the government like any other country has "double standards". They would tell great things about immigration but in reality would not do anything.

The real opinion about immigrants:

1. Immigrants drive down the wages.
2. They are the source of cheap labor.
3. Even if they are abused they would not fight back because they have come here to pursue American Dream.
4. Even if a few guys return they are plenty who would like to come here. After landing here, such people face harsh realities and are ashamed of their decision. Thinking of embarassment, they struggle for years to make a living.

I think the effect of 300,000 Immigrants is not felt, since it is a very small group to influence an election.

The real influence is social security dollars. If all of them ask for their social security dollars it would make a significant impact. Baby boomers will retire the next year making the problem worse for government. It is the best opportunity to ask for tax dollars or else .... Green Card would be a "compromise" in exchange for stopping people to ask for their money.

Another good option was to fight our case with the help of Peter Schey. I don't know how much time it would take, but it appears to me as a worthwhile option.

Playing the civil rights card is another option. Contacting civil rights activists may influence some congressman.

Lobbying would be difficult after Abramovich case because the government would be tightening its grip on such affairs.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2006, 08:38 AM
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Default

Hey Guys.. Great Job !!!!
I think we are in the right direction... We need more Media Coverage & Mass public to make this thing happen. Esp to get the membership drive... indian media like rediff, samachar..., so anyone with connection in local/national news channel / newspaper would be helpfull here. Also if someone can get in touch with me, i can really push in few more people in this and introduce to few lawyers / chambers and companies who will support us in lobbying & Getting funds.
Cell: 609-636-4932, Email: mmmenon@gmail.com
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2006, 02:19 PM
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Default Mr. PKPALTA

Hi,

Appreciate your comments and understand the outrage.

Two things:

Civil rights: Remember, immigration is not a right. There is a right to due process for everyone on this land, legal or illegal. But immigration is not a right but a privilege granted by the US congress. You would be surprised to know that there are a lot of important things in USA that are not rights. Social Security is not a right. US congress could stop social security checks from going out tommorow if it wanted to and the constitution cannot protect you. So a civil rights lawsuit is likely to be dismissed in the first session in court. You can sue the government -- US dept of labor or USCIS -- if they broke the law. Being inefficient or slow in processing files(labor, 140, 485) is not illegal. You cannot sue them for being inefficient.

Social Security refunds: Again, arm-twisting on your social security dollars is not the approach that would work. You cant say "give me my money back or give me greencard". Social security taxes paid by H1B, L1s etc over 5 years is something they can afford to lose. Even though it may be billions, its a very small percentage compared to total wealth in social security that runs in trillions.

Lobbying: I have heard way to often that because of Abramoff, lobbying is going to change forever. I have one short answer for that. "NO". Look, here is the thing. Businesses and government always need each other in a democracy. But they live worlds apart. And businesses need lobbyists to get their work done in Washington. Its not going away anywhere. Yes, there might be some lobbyists and some congress members who broke the laws during the process of lobbying. They will face prosecution. But that is not going to put an end to lobbying. Its somewhat like this: If some people drive under influence of Alcohol, that does not mean that the government would ban driving for everyone.

Thanks for your concerns but lawsuits and threat of legal action cant help us. Rajiv Khanna has already tried that and in the end, USCIS has not done anything significant to get their act together on 485. Even today there is FBI name-check process that takes so long it would make you feel you are dealing with third world bureaucracy.

--logiclife.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2006, 07:35 PM
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Default

Well said, logiclife.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2006, 12:47 PM
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Default

Guys excellent points, but if i were you, i wudnt be going down THAT road just yet. Asking them to refund ur Social security money is like WAYY out there in the future. I dont even think we wud really win. Hey dont get me wrong, i wud LOVE it if ppl going back cud get their SS taxes refunded.

Now regarding IIT's spending 20-30K per candidate and then those ppl landing up here, well, that's just the concept of "money talks". PPL will go where they are paid the highest. No one here has placed any guns to anyone's heads to come here. Once again i see the injustice so to say, but once again IMHO that is not reason to be granting GCs at will.

What we DO need to do, is try and conince lawmakers of the Quality of Indian education so that they know how valuable it really is. Canadian, British and Australian education is respected here, we need to try and ensure Indian education TOO is respected, and not just IITs and IIMs. Atleast that way our Spouses who have advanced Indian degrees do not have to go thru education here, all over again. That saved them time and effort and saves us money.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2006, 02:06 PM
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Default Just a thought...

These are primarily because of retrogression. We will be doing tough bargain if only we had the freedom.
When a company has tough time, it would prefer to lay off citizens/gc holders because ppl waiting for GC are more likely are one with less pay. (assuming two person have same skill set/experience)
It doesn't mean that every body who enters the country with H1B be given GC. Remember the bargaining power comes with experience.

I am wondering whether it is worth a try to educate people at numberusa or fairh1b etc.
We could atleast try to educate common american people who never heard of Retrogression or would not sympathize if known.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pkpalta
Guys,

The real opinion about immigrants:

1. Immigrants drive down the wages.
2. They are the source of cheap labor.
3. Even if they are abused they would not fight back because they have come here to pursue American Dream.
4. Even if a few guys return they are plenty who would like to come here. After landing here, such people face harsh realities and are ashamed of their decision. Thinking of embarassment, they struggle for years to make a living.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:38 AM
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Default Updating

I am updating this old thread in order to answer the query about what can we do in return for greencard or what America gains by giving the legal high skills a greencard.

Actually, there is no dispute. They want to give us the greencard. No disagreement there.

Its how soon. Do we deserve a GC in 3 years or 10 years?
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2006, 04:59 PM
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Default Educate your friends back home

Tell your friends what's really happening here.

I find it appalling that while we are here frustrated to the point of disbelief with the system there are right now folks in India or China or elsewhere you are dreaming of coming to US. If you knew exactly this was going to be your fate when you first came to US would you have come here? Or even if you came, would you not have planned your life differently? May be work for a few years and then head back with the money? Would you have invested in this country if you knew you would be subjected to this kind of situation where we have to fight to get attention to be treated fairly?

So spread the word. Make this place unattractive to prospective bright folks before their life goes in limbo. Frankly, I would appreciate if my green card is rejected within a month of application instead of being accepted after 5 years in limbo. What say you?
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2006, 05:21 PM
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Default Its not the principle stand

Here is the deal.

The lawmakers and the American people in general agree that immigrants who have come here to work and offer skills should be offered greencards so that they can stay and citizenship later so that they can assimilate in the society.

The issue is not that.

The issue here is : Fine tuning the mechanism and policy of such green cards issued to us. That's where our amendments come in. In general, they acknowledge us and increased visas from 140,000 to 290,000. They setup PERM so that labor problem will not be a problem atleast 2 years from now.

However, FINE-TUNING the work is all what this is about. It takes time and patience, but it will happen and we will prevail.

Remember, even if we are successful in issuing things to this bill in our favor, the fight will go on -- its not going to be over soon. This is one stage of series of stages.
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