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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 11:24 AM
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Default **** EB2 for INDIANS CANCELLED ****

The U.S. Department of State (DOS) released the August 2006 Visa Bulletin earlier today (July 17, 2006). The Visa Bulletin contains a significant change affecting employment-based, second preference (EB2) cases for nationals of India. As of August 1, 2006, the visa numbers for EB2 for persons chargeable to India will become unavailable. This means that as of August 1st, persons in this category cannot file their I-485 cases for adjustment of status within the United States, nor proceed with consular processing to obtain the immigrant visa abroad, no matter what their priority date. It also means that those with pending I-485s or consular processing cases cannot move forward to approval after July 31, 2006 until the priority dates become available again for that particular individual or family. The movement of priority dates is expected to change once more immigrant visa numbers are released and become available starting October 1, 2006 or soon thereafter. October marks the beginning of the 2007 fiscal year (FY).

Is this preference by Nationality?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 11:35 AM
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Default Not at all!

Nope! That's only because there not more visas available for people born in India for the current year. They will be available again in October 2006.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 02:50 PM
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This is de facto discrimination just like there were quotas for immigration from Asia and Africa prior to the '65 law. According to those National Origin quotas (feel free to look it up), Europe had 80% claim and the rest of the whole world less than 20%.

This time these same "National origin" quotas are hurting Indians and chinese.
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Old 07-18-2006, 04:27 PM
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agreed that there was discrimination before the 1965 law.

however, what the Indians/Chinese are going through now, has nothing to do with discrimination. It is a matter of supply vs demand and when that is skewed 1:500 maybe even more, it gives rise to frustration (such as in yourself and countless others) which in turn results in the frustrated party screaming
Quote:
de facto discrimination
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 04:38 PM
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There may have been discrimanation prior to the 65 law. But now all the countries have the same quota. So where's the discrimination?
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasantha
There may have been discrimanation prior to the 65 law. But now all the countries have the same quota. So where's the discrimination?
Technically and legally this cannot be called discrimination; but when vatican city has the same quota as India and china there has to be some term to describe it.Consider two people with the exact same qualifications who work for the same company and both apply for GC. One gets it in 2 years, because he was born in sri lanka and the other takes 8-9 years only because he was born in India. Is there any term to describe this treatment ?
Anyways, quotas of any sort make no sense in the EB category. If we have to make sure small countries are not discriminated against, at least have roll-over quotas such that unused visas from all the other small countries are assigned to the deficit countries.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 05:19 PM
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lasantha.....if you had read what i said, I said De Facto Discrmination. What this means is while there is no policy giving one nation preference overe another, what the policy does do is effectively bar people from larger countries from getting residency based on their national origin.

That is the botomline effect of those country quotas, and that's why it is not Overt Discrimination but rather De Facto Discrimination. Got it?
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobers
lasantha.....if you had read what i said, I said De Facto Discrmination. What this means is while there is no policy giving one nation preference overe another, what the policy does do is effectively bar people from larger countries from getting residency based on their national origin.

That is the botomline effect of those country quotas, and that's why it is not Overt Discrimination but rather De Facto Discrimination. Got it?
The GC quota does not BAR anyone from getting the GreenCard, just increases the timeline. when discussing legal issues, it is best to stick to facts and not perceived impact.........

when discussing policy, it makes sense to talk about perceived impact. however, it is not our place to dictate/question policy. remember we are guests after all. that is why we can petition the lawmakers as in ask/request/beg and nothing more.

when we all get the GC and some of us (those who chose to) become citizens, surely we can start a grasroots campaign to fix the problems inherent with the per country cap..........

until then hang on!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by qualified_trash; 07-18-2006 at 06:09 PM.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qualified_trash
The GC quota does not BAR anyone from getting the GreenCard, just increases the timeline. when discussing legal issues, it is best to stick to facts and not perceived impact.........

when discussing policy, it makes sense to talk about perceived impact. however, it is not our place to dictate/question policy. remember we are guests after all. that is why we can petition the lawmakers as in ask/request/beg and nothing more.

when we all get the GC and some of us (those who chose to) become citizens, surely we can start a grasroots campaign to fix the problems inherent with the per country cap..........

until then hang on!!!!!!!!!
As it turns out most EB applicants are on H1 so I would be happy if they put country of origin quotas on H1 visas too. Doesn't that make sense too then since we have country quotas on EB visas?

However, this will NEVER happen because the companies who run this nation would never allow it to happen. As long as their annual H1 supply is intact they won't care about green cards. So my friend the country quota in EB visas is absolutely illogical and appears to have been very badly planned. But since no politician has the guts to change it as it would appear he or she is favoring India and China, things will stay the same.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 06:57 PM
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Default it is de facto descrimination

agreed with you all.

So, why don't they recognize all EU countries as one single state and subject them under the visa number quota rule? Or why don't we lobby India or China to split the republics and become two loosely federated unions like the post soviet or the EU?

arggghhh. that was just meaningless rant.. c'est la vie and we can only fight to change the reality of the US immigration system to our favor...
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2006, 11:25 AM
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you know, there is an irrational fear among some that if there are no country caps then folks from India, China, Philipines and Mexico would eat up their visa numbers. This is totally false. What it will do is transfer the unused numbers to these oversubscribed countries - numbers which would have been wasted anyway as there is no recapture mechanism.

No one is whining but clearly this is an illogical employment-based system that spawns de facto discrimination. I can't say whether this is intentional or not, but clearly that is its impact. Already the US has the diversity lottery which is solely based on national origin. No requirements for family ties, or skills, or potential contribution to the economy (do you know that folks from India, China, Philipines and Mexico and some other countries cannot even participate in that??)

On the other hand the underlying rationale of having the EB system in the first place is the first place (just like H1) is to get people with the desired skills/education contribute to this country. Question: Does it make sense to have an national origin H1 quota? We all know the H1 is a stepping stone to GC, so what sense is there in a national origin based EB quota then? And last of all, is it fair to people from I, C, P, M?

Team IV: I suggest we have a IV poll on whether the current country quotas for EB immigration are fair.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2006, 01:00 PM
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Default Senior IV folks/Logiclife/Waldenpond

I believe that the latest visa bulletin is hard evidence that the retrogression quagmire has worsened and will continue to worsen. Have you made any effort to cash in on this latest evidence? Have you presented this to all these 'influential' contacts you are speaking to? If you have, has it yielded any tangible assurance?

Please respond ASAP. Thank you for your time.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2006, 01:18 PM
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What does this on immigrationlaw.com mean:
Can anyone file I-485 before July 31 or only whose PD was current in the July Bulletin
=================================================

07/19/2006: EB-2 and EB-3 Retrogression for India on 08/01/2006 and Importance of Understanding of "Filing" of I-485 on or before 07/31/2006

Beginning from August 1, 2006, the EB-2 number will be unavailable and the EB-3 number will be moved backward for the Indians. The July 2006 Visa Bulletin will allow some Indians to file either concurrent I-140/I-485 or stand-alone I-485 application, based on the last minute approval of the BEC labor certification applications. When the USCIS faces such unusual visa number problem, it usually releases a guidance as to how they will handle the last minute filings, including the definition "timely" filing of I-485. People may recall the last year's experience at the end of September facing EB-2 visa number retrogression on October 1, 2005. It is unclear whether the USCIS will release a similar guidance this month. Pending the potential release of the USCIS guidance, the following materials will assist such Indians in preparing the last minute filing:
Our website reports in September 2005 (Helpful in learning the last year's USCIS policy)
Our Visa Retrogression Q&A. (Helpful in learning the issues and strategies to cope with the retrogression)
The following informationwill give some guidance until the USCIS guidance is released:
Service Centers are closed on holidays and generally overnight deliveries are not available and generally deliveries to their P.O. boxes are considered not "filed." The cases must physically reach the Service Center facilities within working week days. July 31, 2006 is Monday.
In concurrent I-140/I-485 filing , the principal alien and dependent family members' I-485 filing can be receipted and "filed" only when the underlying I-140 petition is considered "timely and frawlessly" filed; Accordingly, even if there will be no flaws in I-485 filing, if the I-140 filing is "rejected" for flaws, these I-485 applications will be considered "not" filed. Flaws in the I-140 will not include the substantive issue of eligibility. In worst case, meritless I-140 petition can be "filed" and later "denied." This will not affect the "pending" .status of I-485 application. Such I-485 applications may be subsequently denied, but it has nothing to do with the issue of "timely filed." Filing is related only to the "procedural" issues. The following posting of our website in September 29, 2005 may give some guidance on the procedural requirement for "filing" under the immigration regulation:
"09/29/2005: Last Minute EB-2 Filing Requirement by USCIS" The USCIS is concerned that some ineligible people may just file before 10/01/2005 just to obtain EAD and Advance Parole. Accordingly, AILA has reported that the USCIS would require that the "initial evidence" requirements for I-140 petitions and I-485 applications are met. Filings that do not satisfy the "initial evidence" requirements are likely to be rejected, not subject to an RFE, according to the AILA. In normal environment, the USCIS would accept the filings even if some initial evidence are missing and they issue RFE, but it is the AILA's opinion that the USCIS may likely be less lenient under the current unusual circumstances. It is still unclear how strictly the USCIS will require all the flawless initial evidence and whether any filings with a minor flaws in documentation of initial evidence will be rejected under any circumstances. We hope not.
The I-485 form lists the following evidence as the initial evidence for the employment-based I-485 filings:
Birth Certificate
Copy of passport page with nonimmigrant visa
Photos
Biometirics (currently after filing)
I-693 Medical report
G-325A Biographic Information Sheet
Evidence of status (I-94 + current status evidence)
Sponsoring employer letter
I-140 petition Receipt or Approval Notice
I-485 Receipt Notice or Approval Notice, if spouse filing separately. If filing jointly not required.
Marriage certificate, marriage termination evidence if filed as a spouse, and birth certificate if filed as a child
Other eligibility documentation
It is urged that the USCIS exercise discretion under the same spirit of exercise of discretion to accept the computer print-out labor certification approval and be lenient in accepting the filings with minor flaws in initial evidence documentation. The frivolous filing to attempt to obtain EAD/AD can be sufficiently prevented at the stage of processing of I-765 and I-131."
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2006, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi_Hendrix
I believe that the latest visa bulletin is hard evidence that the retrogression quagmire has worsened and will continue to worsen. Have you made any effort to cash in on this latest evidence? Have you presented this to all these 'influential' contacts you are speaking to? If you have, has it yielded any tangible assurance?

Please respond ASAP. Thank you for your time.
Maybe you are new to this forum, but if past experience is anything to go by logiclife and company are ahead of all of us and will have latched on to it long before anybody else in this forum even thinks about it. Its just that they dont expend their energy proclaiming it from the rooftops. Also realise that there is no way they can get "tangible assurances" from lawmakers.. even prez bush cannot get tangible assurances from congress (else CIR would have been law by now), let alone mortal "aliens" like us.

Last edited by dixie; 07-19-2006 at 01:27 PM.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2006, 05:08 PM
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Default Dixie, thanks but no thanks?

Although I appreciate your faith in the team here at IV, you understand that my question was SPECIFICALLY addressed to the IV core team? As a side note, I would tend to agree with your opinion.

I still await a response from the core team.
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