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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2007, 05:52 PM
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Default Educational - Must Read : How rallies make a difference.

To everyone who thinks rallies dont make a difference, as illustrated here by a skeptic : http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/sh...ad.php?t=13583 (So. What is the result after the Rally?)

This is not an attack post. Or a criticizing post. This is purely educational and please keep this thread clean.

I know there are many out there who are snickering in their cubicles looking at the pictures of the rally and thinking "Look at these idiots, they think Congress will pass SKIL bill because they walked 1.2 miles with some placards and banners".

Such thinking is reasonable. But only if you dont know how things work.

Here is why rally of Sept 18th will be consequential:

1. When you do a rally, people notice. People recognize organization and measure its strength. It stays in their heads for a long time and they keep Immigration Voice as one of the organizations they can ask for support when they push for their own cause. In Congress, things work based on compromise, consensus and consultation. People dont just sponsor legislations they believe in. They run it thru their caucus and leadership and do a vote count. To find out how many votes would they get if they came up with this new idea. Whether it will get 218 votes in House. Whether they will get 51 votes in senate. If its filibuster proof and get 61 votes in Senate. Whether it has committee support. Whether leadership offices are in agreement to put it in schedule. All this happens in background and there are people who are hired in committees just to do vote counts on proposed ideas. IF it turns out they dont find enough support, they drop it. If they think they can pull it off, they approach leadership (Speaker in House, Maj leader in Senate) to put it in queue.

2. Let us say that Congressman X wants to sponser DREAM Act because of his constituency or a senator (like Feinstein) wants to sponsor AgJobs because food growers are having food rotten in absence of agricultural workers, a compelling cause. Now, when they want to pass legislation, they have to look for support and votes as described in item 1. When they fall short, they find ways to sweeten the pot. IF they see that a powerful organization will throw in their support and lobbying in favor of their bill if they attach a few of that organization's provisions, then they approach them. Immigration Voice did 138 lawmakers meetings (in House and Senate). They did the rally. They would consider IV as a organization that can help them PUSH for their legislation. Now we have a place at the negotiating table. If they attach our provisions (like recapture, or GC quota increase), then we can promise to do something for them. Like support the entire bill they are pushing for. They know that we can do rallies and we can do hundreds of lawmaker meetings. If Diane Feinstein (just an example) thinks that by adding skilled employment based reform provisions she can get IV's support and swing a few votes to help her pass her favorite AgJobs bill, then we have opportunity where the Senator would ask us what we want rather than us going and asking them to do things for us. One of IV members said that on the day of the rally, suddenly the office of her senator called her and scheduled and appointment to meet the same day at 4:00 PM. She had been trying to get the appointment but after they rally and Roll call newspaper ad, they called her to listen to her. I heard about this from her just as the rally was over.

3. CIR has recently failed. From some meetings, I got the feeling that CIR's failure has left a bad taste in mouth and many people in Congress as well as administration are very upset about it still. Now that we have done this rally, done lawmaker meetings, put a rollcall ad, did the media blitz, press conference, congressional reception (where 4 congressmen attended and spoke in IV's support), they know that it would be a good idea to keep IV on their side and put some of their things in a bill. Next time they write a bill (behind closed doors very often), they will consult us and ask us if they can do something for IV to win IV's full support. That's because by getting IV's support on their side for whatever they are doing, they can be assured that we wont oppose it but instead support it. With phone calls, Rallies, paid ads, lawmaker meetings etc. If they are really investing in getting a bill passed, they would include our provisions just to increase the odds.

Strength respects strength. If we have the strength to do things and make a difference (rallies, meetings, receptions, press conferences, paid ads), then that strength begets more strenght because other powers want us to join hands with them so that they can do their favorite things (AgJobs, DREAM etc).

Last edited by logiclife; 09-19-2007 at 06:01 PM.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2007, 05:59 PM
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I am with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife View Post
To everyone who thinks rallies dont make a difference, as described here : http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/sh...ad.php?t=13583 (So. What is the result after the Rally?)

This is not an attack post. Or a criticizing post. This is purely educational and please keep this thread clean.

I know there are many out there who are snickering in their cubicles looking at the pictures of the rally and thinking "Look at these idiots, they think Congress will pass SKIL bill because they walked 1.2 miles with some placards and banners".

Such thinking is reasonable. But only if you dont know how things work.

Here is why rally of Sept 18th will be consequential:

1. When you do a rally, people notice. People recognize organization and measure its strength. It stays in their heads for a long time and they keep Immigration Voice as one of the organizations they can ask for support when they push for their own cause. In Congress, things work based on compromise, consensus and consultation. People dont just sponsor legislations they believe in. They run it thru their caucus and leadership and do a vote count. To find out how many votes would they get if they came up with this new idea. Whether it will get 218 votes in House. Whether they will get 51 votes in senate. If its filibuster proof and get 61 votes in Senate. Whether it has committee support. Whether leadership offices are in agreement to put it in schedule. All this happens in background and there are people who are hired in committees just to do vote counts on proposed ideas. IF it turns out they dont find enough support, they drop it. If they think they can pull it off, they approach leadership (Speaker in House, Maj leader in Senate) to put it in queue.

2. Let us say that Congressman X wants to sponser SKIL bill because of his constituency or a senator (like Feinstein) wants to sponsor AgJobs because food growers are having food rotten in absence of agricultural workers, a compelling cause. Now, when they want to pass legislation, they have to look for support and votes as described in item 1. When they fall short, they find ways to sweeten the pot. IF they see that a powerful organization will throw in their support and lobbying in favor of their bill if they attach a few of that organization's provisions, then they approach them. Immigration Voice did 138 lawmakers meetings (in House and Senate). They did the rally. They would consider IV as a organization that can help them PUSH for their legislation. Now we have a place at the negotiating table. If they attach our provisions (like recapture, or GC quota increase), then we can promise to do something for them. Like support the entire bill they are pushing for. They know that we can do rallies and we can do hundreds of lawmaker meetings. If Diane Feinstein (just an example) thinks that by adding skilled employment based reform provisions she can get IV's support and swing a few votes to help her pass her favorite AgJobs bill, then we have opportunity where the Senator would ask us what we want rather than us going and asking them to do things for us. One of IV members said that on the day of the rally, suddenly the office of her senator called her and scheduled and appointment to meet the same day at 4:00 PM. She had been trying to get the appointment but after they rally and Roll call newspaper ad, they called her to listen to her. I heard about this from her just as the rally was over.

3. CIR has recently failed. From some meetings, I got the feeling that CIR's failure has left a bad taste in mouth and many people in Congress as well as administration are very upset about it still. Now that we have done this rally, done lawmaker meetings, put a rollcall ad, did the media blitz, press conference, congressional reception (where 4 congressmen attended and spoke in IV's support), they know that it would be a good idea to keep IV on their side and put some of their things in a bill. Next time they write a bill (behind closed doors very often), they will consult us and ask us if they can do something for IV to win IV's full support. That's because by getting IV's support on their side for whatever they are doing, they can be assured that we wont oppose it but instead support it. With phone calls, Rallies, paid ads, lawmaker meetings etc. If they are really investing in getting a bill passed, they would include our provisions just to increase the odds.

Strength respects strength. If we have the strength to do things and make a difference (rallies, meetings, receptions, press conferences, paid ads), then that strength begets more strenght because other powers want us to join hands with them so that they can do their favorite things (AgJobs, DREAM etc).
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2007, 06:02 PM
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Talking Very informative

Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife View Post
To everyone who thinks rallies dont make a difference, as described here : http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/sh...ad.php?t=13583 (So. What is the result after the Rally?)

This is not an attack post. Or a criticizing post. This is purely educational and please keep this thread clean.

I know there are many out there who are snickering in their cubicles looking at the pictures of the rally and thinking "Look at these idiots, they think Congress will pass SKIL bill because they walked 1.2 miles with some placards and banners".

Such thinking is reasonable. But only if you dont know how things work.

Here is why rally of Sept 18th will be consequential:

1. When you do a rally, people notice. People recognize organization and measure its strength. It stays in their heads for a long time and they keep Immigration Voice as one of the organizations they can ask for support when they push for their own cause. In Congress, things work based on compromise, consensus and consultation. People dont just sponsor legislations they believe in. They run it thru their caucus and leadership and do a vote count. To find out how many votes would they get if they came up with this new idea. Whether it will get 218 votes in House. Whether they will get 51 votes in senate. If its filibuster proof and get 61 votes in Senate. Whether it has committee support. Whether leadership offices are in agreement to put it in schedule. All this happens in background and there are people who are hired in committees just to do vote counts on proposed ideas. IF it turns out they dont find enough support, they drop it. If they think they can pull it off, they approach leadership (Speaker in House, Maj leader in Senate) to put it in queue.

2. Let us say that Congressman X wants to sponser SKIL bill because of his constituency or a senator (like Feinstein) wants to sponsor AgJobs because food growers are having food rotten in absence of agricultural workers, a compelling cause. Now, when they want to pass legislation, they have to look for support and votes as described in item 1. When they fall short, they find ways to sweeten the pot. IF they see that a powerful organization will throw in their support and lobbying in favor of their bill if they attach a few of that organization's provisions, then they approach them. Immigration Voice did 138 lawmakers meetings (in House and Senate). They did the rally. They would consider IV as a organization that can help them PUSH for their legislation. Now we have a place at the negotiating table. If they attach our provisions (like recapture, or GC quota increase), then we can promise to do something for them. Like support the entire bill they are pushing for. They know that we can do rallies and we can do hundreds of lawmaker meetings. If Diane Feinstein (just an example) thinks that by adding skilled employment based reform provisions she can get IV's support and swing a few votes to help her pass her favorite AgJobs bill, then we have opportunity where the Senator would ask us what we want rather than us going and asking them to do things for us. One of IV members said that on the day of the rally, suddenly the office of her senator called her and scheduled and appointment to meet the same day at 4:00 PM. She had been trying to get the appointment but after they rally and Roll call newspaper ad, they called her to listen to her. I heard about this from her just as the rally was over.

3. CIR has recently failed. From some meetings, I got the feeling that CIR's failure has left a bad taste in mouth and many people in Congress as well as administration are very upset about it still. Now that we have done this rally, done lawmaker meetings, put a rollcall ad, did the media blitz, press conference, congressional reception (where 4 congressmen attended and spoke in IV's support), they know that it would be a good idea to keep IV on their side and put some of their things in a bill. Next time they write a bill (behind closed doors very often), they will consult us and ask us if they can do something for IV to win IV's full support. That's because by getting IV's support on their side for whatever they are doing, they can be assured that we wont oppose it but instead support it. With phone calls, Rallies, paid ads, lawmaker meetings etc. If they are really investing in getting a bill passed, they would include our provisions just to increase the odds.

Strength respects strength. If we have the strength to do things and make a difference (rallies, meetings, receptions, press conferences, paid ads), then that strength begets more strenght because other powers want us to join hands with them so that they can do their favorite things (AgJobs, DREAM etc).
I thought the rally helps bring attention to our cause and put pressure. I never knew so many things go on behind the scenes.

I think by the time we get our green cards, we all will be experts in the nitty gritty of American Politics
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2007, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife View Post
Immigration Voice did 138 lawmakers meetings (in House and Senate). They did the rally. They would consider IV as a organization that can help them PUSH for their legislation. Now we have a place at the negotiating table.
Amen. Out of sight, out of mind, as the pithy goes. Those lawmakers will have a recall now because of the in-person meetings.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2007, 06:11 PM
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Well Said Logiclife... That was an eye-opener. Hopefully something positive happens because of all your hardwork.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:12 PM
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Default You are 100% correct

No one on Capitol Hill could fail to be impressed by IV's exceptional organization and by the strength and the reasonableness of it's message. The NYTimes and Washington Post coverage confirms that IV is an organization with a major role to play in crafting future legislation. Well done all!!!
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:23 PM
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Logiclife - Me and my Attorney - had some email exchanges about all this stuff and she compliments all that IV has done and says we must educate people about advocacy

Quote:
Maybe we should start with organizing some small events/seminars to spread awareness on what can be done and how important advocacy is, most people think that it does not make a difference. We could rope in local organizations

Prashanthi Reddy, Esq.
Law Offices of Prashanthi Reddy, PLLC

I personally got burned out trying to explain all this several times to people only to get trashed at and get strange looks back and get ignored
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:46 PM
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Thumbs up Educational

Great post, explaining IVs efforts. Thumbs Up.

However, I don't think the critics will shut up. It's their job to be critical of everything, for no reason, including their own existence. It's a mentality that cannot be changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife View Post
Strength respects strength. If we have the strength to do things and make a difference (rallies, meetings, receptions, press conferences, paid ads), then that strength begets more strenght because other powers want us to join hands with them so that they can do their favorite things (AgJobs, DREAM etc).
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2007, 06:52 PM
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Lightbulb Next Step - Simultaneous rally in all major US cities!

Guys,
Firstly thanks for the great show at DC, we are really beginning to bring this issue to the fore front. I could not attend myself but I did make a small contribution as a token of my support. However we should capitalize on the momentum and follow this up with some thing more substantial so that every one knows that this was not a one off spark but is a clear growing fire.

I guess (just by reading posts on IV) one point which came out pretty clearly was that IV has good support in some regions and really very little support in some others (support as in visible support, where people are willing to show up for rallies, contribute to IV’s efforts etc), I guess this pretty much means that we need to focus on building the regional chapters of IV, like have strong/formal leadership and goals of each of the chapters.

I was also thinking that we can possibly learn a lot from the protests by undocumented immigrants. They had record turnouts in their rallies and most of their people stayed away from work to take part in the efforts when ever there was a call for the same.

I thought which keeps hitting me is about a simultaneous rally in all major US cities? I know that undocumented immigrants did this and that really worked for them and once again this will build our regional chapters coz the onus will clearly be on each of the regional chapters to achieve targets (target in terms of membership, turnout in rallies, fund raisings etc ) set by IV

Some of the advantages of having simultaneous local rallies is that
1) No travel expenses – (So that we can spend more money on media and lobbying than travel expenses)
2) No need to time spent on travel – ( Better turnouts)
3) Comfort – every one can just go to a local rally point (Better turnouts)
4) Stronger regional chapters – (work at grass root levels)

Also if this can be done on a Saturday then I am sure the turn out will be much better.

What do you think?

Regards.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:01 PM
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Thumbs up Well said

Way to go logiclife ...

Quote:
I know there are many out there who are snickering in their cubicles looking at the pictures of the rally and thinking "Look at these idiots, they think Congress will pass SKIL bill because they walked 1.2 miles with some placards and banners".
Well, to all skeptics ...time will tell where stupidity lies.

Way to go IV, will never let ourselves down. Rally is just a begining ...
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2007, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garybanz View Post
Guys,
....

I guess (just by reading posts on IV) one point which came out pretty clearly was that IV has good support in some regions and really very little support in some others (support as in visible support, where people are willing to show up for rallies, contribute to IV’s efforts etc), I guess this pretty much means that we need to focus on building the regional chapters of IV, like have strong/formal leadership and goals of each of the chapters.

...
Agree with you 100%. Instead of 'forming' state chapters in the last moment, they need to be established, nourished, strengthened and developed over a period of time. A grassroots movement needs strong roots in all regions.

Quote:
I was also thinking that we can possibly learn a lot from the protests by undocumented immigrants. They had record turnouts in their rallies and most of their people stayed away from work to take part in the efforts when ever there was a call for the same.
With all due respect, it was a disaster. They ended up scaring Americans - by holding Flags of thier countries, holding US flag upside-down or disrespecting US flag in other ways. This provided fodder to anti-immigrants to scare Americans of an 'invasion' of law-breaking aliens.

We need to learn lessons from them, in not committing their mistakes


Quote:
Some of the advantages of having simultaneous local rallies is that
1) No travel expenses – (So that we can spend more money on media and lobbying than travel expenses)

There was a Free Bus from NY/NJ. Yet, how many came?

2) No need to time spent on travel – ( Better turnouts)

How many people from DC participated?

3) Comfort – every one can just go to a local rally point (Better turnouts)

Those seeking 'comfort', will choose it at home. What better comfort than to sleep on a couch and watch TV?

4) Stronger regional chapters – (work at grass root levels)

If wishes were horses...

As of now, idea doesn't look good. 10 people marching in Detroit, 20 in Minneapolis, 40 in New York, 100 in California - will it even be a rally, in the true sense?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2007, 07:33 PM
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Default

Good post. Politics is a game of give and take. One thing legal immigrants should learn is not to distance themseves too much from the cause of illegals. If we support DREAM act, they will support SKIL bill. If we support admission bar repealed or 245(i), they will support higher numeric quotes and not counting of dependents. Think about it, our common goal is the same - to have a fair immigration system, where every desrving person has a chance to come to this country legally and with dignity.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermione View Post
Good post. Politics is a game of give and take. One thing legal immigrants should learn is not to distance themseves too much from the cause of illegals. If we support DREAM act, they will support SKIL bill. If we support admission bar repealed or 245(i), they will support higher numeric quotes and not counting of dependents. Think about it, our common goal is the same - to have a fair immigration system, where every desrving person has a chance to come to this country legally and with dignity.
If we support DREAM act, they will support SKIL bill.

Who are they?, they do not have any voice or vote anywhere. They are ILLEGAL, they broke the law.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2007, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by andy garcia View Post
If we support DREAM act, they will support SKIL bill.

Who are they?, they do not have any voice or vote anywhere. They are ILLEGAL, they broke the law.
Are you kidding me? You think that undocumented are not represented in Washington? You think that DREAM act has no sponsors?

Well, I have news for you. Durbin and 2 other senators are going to try to add DREAM to DoD appropriations bill this week. It may not pass but it doesnt mean that there are no supporters or sponsors of DREAM, AgJobs etc. Every single component of CIR has a champion in congress.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2007, 08:07 PM
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Default

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Originally Posted by andy garcia View Post
If we support DREAM act, they will support SKIL bill.

Who are they?, they do not have any voice or vote anywhere. They are ILLEGAL, they broke the law.
Congress and Senate are dominated by Democrats. If they think that is best for USA what is your problem? Wherever our interests meet, we need to support other things. Also if amnesty (for lack of better words) is given by US Govt, (with proper border enforcement), then they will not be illegals. Hope you are getting big picture.

I personally had many meetings, they echoed the opinion that we are doing the right thing. That is the way things work in the capital. And they have very great opnion of Patton Boggs.
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