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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 12:06 PM
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Default What is the next step as far as IV is concerned?

Hello everyone,

What is the next step as far as IV is concerned? Is there any pending legislation that we are pursuing? We had a rally recently, but somehow I feel that we are losing momentum now. All the threads I now see are "non-IV-agenda" related.

Can the moderators pls post some updates as to what is going on? We havent heard about any movement after the July 2nd Fiasco and the Sept Rally. I know a lot of state chapters are becoming more & more active, so is that the new IV model?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 12:08 PM
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Default Games Indians Play

Why are we individually so smart and collectively so naive? Why do we mistake talk for action? Why is our self-worth massaged only if we have the ‘authority’ to break rules? Why are we among the world’s most corrupt? Why do we jump red lights? Why do we dump our garbage at the neighbour’s doorstep?
For Answers read...Games Indians play by by V. Raghunathan
http://www.penguinbooksindia.com/Boo...il.asp?ID=6424
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Last edited by sbindval; 10-15-2007 at 12:11 PM.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 12:11 PM
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Default Good Question

I agree some light needs to be shed apart from the State level movement push thatw e are seeing - ofcourse one factor could be that we do not have any visible movement on the Hill on immigration related matters.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 12:24 PM
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Things are happening in the background. This is the best time to stabilize ourselves and thast exactly why we started State Chapters. Currently we are doing a massive team building effort to build strong grassroots. Please join your state chapters if you have not yet joined as yet. It is very essential that you do it ASAP.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 01:08 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbindval View Post
Why are we individually so smart and collectively so naive? Why do we mistake talk for action? Why is our self-worth massaged only if we have the ‘authority’ to break rules? Why are we among the world’s most corrupt? Why do we jump red lights? Why do we dump our garbage at the neighbour’s doorstep?
For Answers read...Games Indians play by by V. Raghunathan
http://www.penguinbooksindia.com/Boo...il.asp?ID=6424
Good book a must read for everyone, not only Indians

Foreword

Games Indians Play, Dr. Raghunathan's new book is timely, and is an absorbing, illuminating study of the life and behaviour of Indians in the public sphere. It presents an economist's view on what it means to be an Indian today. I consider it a pleasure and a privilege to write the foreword for this book.

India is, now, sixty years as a free country. Yet, today, many of the goals set during the time of India's independence have not been realized. Our country faces multiple, urgent challenges of poverty, corruption and emerging social crises in health, education and population growth. Twenty six per cent of Indians remain below the poverty line, and 39 per cent of the country is illiterate. Public infrastructure in India's population lacks access to the most basic resources. Over one-third of Indians lack access to clean water or proper sanitation facilities, and 30 per cent of the Indian population remains unconnected by a proper road. Corruption is pervasive in India's institutions-close to one per cent of the country's GDP today is lost to bribes alone.

In his book, Raghunathan takes a novel perspective on India's myriad economic and social challenges. He asserts that, while the resources to address India's problems are available, serious problems persist due to apathy and a 'lack of public conscience' among the Indian population. This, he notes, holds true for Indians across all walks of life-be it the political field, the bureaucracy, the business sector or the salaried and working class.

Raghunathan examines Indian social behaviour through game theory and behavioural economics, and he relies particularly on the work of game theorist such as John von Neumann, Oskar Morgenstern and John. For example, he uses the principle of prisoner's dilemma to analyse the benefit of selfish versus cooperative strategies among individuals and to discuss the lack of concern among Indians for public infrastructure and facilities. Raghunathan points our that Indians view their fellow citizens-including the authorities-as apathetic (or 'selfish') towards public infrastructure, and consequently see maximum benefit in being apathetic as well. The 'cooperative strategy' of maintaining infrastructure for good public use becomes increasingly unprofitable, as more and more people use becomes increasingly unprofitable, as more and more people are seen as selfish. In such an environment, all people eventually pursue 'selfish strategies', and pursue routes that maximize personal gain at the expense of public good. Such an attitude has led, in the long term, to the present situation of public apathy for law and order, the fractured sense of public good and corruption across all sections of Indian society.

Raghunathan gives us a strong appreciation of how and why Indians have cultivated behaviours that are so destructive to the fabric of the larger community. His book is filled with revealing insights on how our social attitudes impact our ability to address the economic and social challenges that face the country. Raghunathan's writing is humorous and filled with anecdotes that are both amusing and thought-provoking. For instance, he notes the irony of having to pay a bribe in order to pay land registration fees in India, essentially paying a bribe to give money to the government! However, this has become so commonplace that most Indians no longer think twice about making the payment.

India, thanks to its emerging economic and demographic advantages, has the opportunity to grow into a developed, prosperous economy over the next two decades. However, to enable growth that is both sustainable and equitable, Indians have to recognize the challenges we face as a society, and address them with courage and a commitment towards reform. A stronger understanding of ourselves and of our social structures is essential to enable this. Games Indians Play is an intelligent, insightful effort in this direction.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 01:18 PM
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Default

Rome wasn't built in a day. It takes time and patience to succeed in a cause such as IVs. For an organization barely 3 years old IV has come a long way. There are miles and miles more to go before we succeed. And the way is hard , with anti-immigrant groups such as NumbersUSA with millions of dollars annual budget creating hurdles in our path. But we will do it, if we stick together.

( Let me quote the song from '1947 love story' here. 'Yeh Kateen hai gham magar, na udaas ho mere Hamsafar'. It's a long arduous journey- but don't lose heart - as we are in this together, sharing each others pain)

Make no mistakes. I had the same doubts as any of you (Read my older posts). But I didn't sit quite, just posting those doubts. I got involved in my state chapter activities, and some questions got answered along the way. And some more, I'm sure, will get answered in the near future. Best way to be in the know, is to get actively involved.

If you need to see the light, come out of the anonymity of your online closets. No one trusts a boogeyman lurking in the dark (do you?). Get active, get involved. Your questions will be anwered. Or you can choose to hide in the darkness of your online anonymity and inaction. But don't expect anyone to shed any light on you. To see the light come out into the open.

'Let's move from Darkness (anonymity) to light (joining local chapter, meeting people). From Inaction (besides posting questons) to action ( proposed by IV & state chapters). From Retogrsession to GC'

(with apologies to Upanishadic seers who gave us the immortal hymn - 'Asathoma...')
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 01:24 PM
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Default

Q What is the next step as far as IV is concerned?

A. We want all members to take the next step.
Please join your state chapters.
http://immigrationvoice.org/index.ph...d=72&Itemid=52

You will get further directions through your chapter leaders. We want to build our grassroots structure at this time. There is going to be a push very soon and some activity is already happening as per media reports you have been seeing. We need to be ready for it. The success of the DC rally has helped give much visibility to our issue. Our agenda now has more supporters. Our lobbying efforts are continuing in DC. Please join your state chapters if you have not. Our grassroots level support is our strength and we need to grow it. We have only end of this year for the next big push and we will need everyone's support for this.

Last edited by pappu; 10-15-2007 at 01:31 PM.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 01:47 PM
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Default Dr. Raghunathan's new book

Also...Indians view Westerners as being selfish, lacking communities that are tight-knight and having no "family values" or "morals" (whatever this means by whomever defines it). In particular, Americans who value personal independence coupled with a sense of civic duty and responsibility to others whereas Indians emphasize family and communal relationships to guide their behavior and actions but do not necessarily extend their concerns outside their immediate circle.

[quote=chanduv23;183708]Good book a must read for everyone, not only Indians

Foreword

Games Indians Play, Dr. Raghunathan's new book is timely, and is an absorbing, illuminating study of the life and behaviour of Indians in the public sphere. It presents an economist's view on what it means to be an Indian today. I consider it a pleasure and a privilege to write the foreword for this book.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbindval View Post
Why are we individually so smart and collectively so naive? Why do we mistake talk for action? Why is our self-worth massaged only if we have the ‘authority’ to break rules? Why are we among the world’s most corrupt? Why do we jump red lights? Why do we dump our garbage at the neighbour’s doorstep?
For Answers read...Games Indians play by by V. Raghunathan
http://www.penguinbooksindia.com/Boo...il.asp?ID=6424
Are "we" in reality "We"? Are "We" really a nation? I think that should be the start of analysis. I am searching "India" Sangh or Mandal in USA. I have not found any one yet. If somebody has found it let me know. You can find Punjabi Sangh, Gujarati Sangh, Telugu Mandal, Kannada Mandal , Sindhi Mandal, Marathi Mandal but you will not find "India" Mandal. "We" are even ashamed to name our country the way "we" really should name it. The other day when I went to Indian Embassy for passport renewal and emphasizing to put the name "Bharat" in stead "India" the lady at counter said since you filled the form in English you should write "India"... Angered as Red hot barbeque I told her than Give me the renewal form in Hindi and embassy did not have any form to be filled in Hindi....And that speaks volumes..Anyway this comment or comments of previous posters regarding this " Hot Topic" is not suitable to the subject of this thread... So let's only opine about what IV and memebers can and should do in near future.
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Last edited by BharatPremi; 10-15-2007 at 03:22 PM.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 03:22 PM
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Default Letter to Nobel Prize winners

Just a thought, Can we send a letter to Immigrant Nobel Prize winners asking for their support, May be they could issue a statement, that could draw the attention
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdcrajnet View Post
Just a thought, Can we send a letter to Immigrant Nobel Prize winners asking for their support, May be they could issue a statement, that could draw the attention
Are you serious ?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BharatPremi View Post
Are "we" in reality "We"? Are "We" really a nation? I think that should be the start of analysis. I am searching "India" Sangh or Mandal in USA. I have not found any one yet. If somebody has found it let me know. You can find Punjabi Sangh, Gujarati Sangh, Telugu Mandal, Kannada Mandal , Sindhi Mandal, Marathi Mandal but you will not find "India" Mandal. "We" are even ashamed to name our country the way "we" really should name it. The other day when I went to Indian Embassy for passport renewal and emphasizing to put the name "Bharat" in stead "India" the lady at counter said since you filled the form in English you should write "India"... Angered as Red hot barbeque I told her than Give me the renewal form in Hindi and embassy did not have any form to be filled in Hindi....And that speaks volumes..Anyway this comment or comments of previous posters regarding this " Hot Topic" is not suitable to the subject of this thread... So let's only opine about what IV and memebers can and should do in near future.


Its like a slow news day. Got to fill the time slot. I see that happening lately around here. One day it was whether it was a good idea to buy a house in CA , other day "why Indians don't like (/help) Indians" , other day "why A'way/Q'star are bad or otherwise". Looks like today's topic is "why there is corruption in India"
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:04 PM
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Why not.. we should give it a try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdcrajnet View Post
Just a thought, Can we send a letter to Immigrant Nobel Prize winners asking for their support, May be they could issue a statement, that could draw the attention
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:05 PM
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Why not??Its not a bad idea. They must have gone through the same phases we are in today....
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:16 PM
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Why not??Its not a bad idea. They must have gone through the same phases we are in today....
Why would a Nobel prise winner make a statement on our behalf on a policy matter ? I highly doubt. Let us be realistic. We can't get our own talk about our problems let alone Nobel Laureates.

And I don't think they have gone through the same phase we are going through unless they applied their GC after mid/late 90s under EB3 category which is highly unlikely. They must have gone through EB1 if at all they applied GC.
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