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IV Agenda and Legislative Updates Immigration Voice's Agenda and Legislative Updates

View Poll Results: Do you want a new Bill that only aims to reduce EB3 and EB2 visa backlog
Yes we want a new Bill 352 95.65%
No new Bill please, its too much work 16 4.35%
Voters: 368. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by willigetgc? View Post
Lets get educated first on the process before we start assuming anything - How a bill becomes a law. We will then understand how to advocate for the changes we are seeking...
Thanks, I had read it a few months back. something similar is posted on othe immigration portals too.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 04:32 PM
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We need a new bill which supports legal
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by prakashv44 View Post
We need a new bill which supports legal
Instead of starting afresh with a new bill, it would be wise if our lobbying efforts for legal immigration adjust to the changing political winds in Washington.

How Would a Republican Congress Handle Immigration? The Washington Independent

1. Based on the report above, the new heads of judiciary committee and Immigration Sub Committee are individuals who view "border security" as the first step towards Immigration Reform. Since a majority of members on this forum are LEGAL immigrants, we need not worry about any steps taken towards border security and ICE Enforcement.

2. We could take our efforts, straight to Congressmen Smith and King and explain the challenges we face in getting LPR status.
3. Congressman Smit represents 21st Congressional District (San Antonio- Austin) area, which has a sizeable Indian population. We can approach him after the elections and discuss our issues with him. I am not aware of Rep. Kings constituency in Iowa, but he can be approached as well.
4. Having a powerful "ear" to listen to our issues and given the limited controversy (Since a majority of US, are on the oft targeted H1B) associated with our immigration needs, we might ask the Congressman himself, what the right steps should be. (New Bill or take up the visa recapture bill (introduced by Rep. Zoe Lofgren).

5. Immigration Voice works with Patton Boggs to voice our concerns with the lawmakers. Former Senator/Congressman Trent Lott works with Patton Boggs. He was the house majority leader, Republican whip and is someone who has (or had) a lot of clout within the Republican party. He was a colleague of Rep. Lamar Smith. He might help us push for the legal immigration piece.
[/b]

Just my $0.02

Last edited by ChampU2008; 10-26-2010 at 05:25 PM.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ChampU2008 View Post
Instead of starting afresh with a new bill, it would be wise if our lobbying efforts for legal immigration adjust to the changing political winds in Washington.

How Would a Republican Congress Handle Immigration? The Washington Independent

1. Based on the report above, the new heads of judiciary committee and Immigration Sub Committee are individuals who view "border security" as the first step towards Immigration Reform. Since a majority of members on this forum are LEGAL immigrants, we need not worry about any steps taken towards border security and ICE Enforcement.
...
...
5. Immigration Voice works with Patton Boggs to voice our concerns with the lawmakers. Former Senator/Congressman Trent Lott works with Patton Boggs. He was the house majority leader, Republican whip and is someone who has (or had) a lot of clout within the Republican party. He was a colleague of Rep. Lamar Smith. He might help us push for the legal immigration piece.[/b][/b]

Just my $0.02
I agree with you, I kind of like the way republicans have been handling immigration issues in general so far. I am in New York and we plan on meeting Senator Schumer too anyway.

We should support their border, ICE policies, but the current president has also set a record for deportations. I also kind of see where americans feel that a secure border and deportation is a priority and its good for every body. We are implicitly supporting, as some are paying 2000 extra for a visa to fund border security!!

The difference between advocacy and lobbying directly is just citizenship.
many of us forget that we are in one of the best functioning/largest democracies, no matter its defects.

Of course the end result is we need a change in law for this, no matter what, and the only way to do this is with a Bill.
I changed the subject of this thread from 'New Bill', but the title is still the old one. We can do this in other ways too, instead of a new one.
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Last edited by tonyHK12; 11-01-2010 at 08:30 PM.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2010, 12:16 PM
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Lets look at Rep. Smith - Reclaim American Jobs Caucus | Congressman Lamar Smith
he is against amnesty and for border control.
--> the cir menendez bill has all the border control provisions that the republicans want (in fact, it is entirely what they want) - so one issue is addressed.
--> illegal immigrants who are already in the country - record number of them have been deported in the 2 years under this administration (more than the republican presidents in the past!), trying to deport them all will take billions of dollars (which the govt does not have - or will it be charged on the legal immigrants?). Yes, one should not support lawbreakers, but just saying that does not solve the problems......what proposals are there that will address the illegal immigrants? nothing.
the talking points are:
border control, we are against amnesty. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Provide solutions, if not a path towards legalization with due fines, what alternative do you suggest?

Lamar Smith's webpage:
Quote:
By simply enforcing current immigration laws we could create job opportunities for American citizens and immigrants who played by the rules to enter the U.S.?
--> Sounds pro legal immigrants right. For now, yes.
--> How many of the H4 spouses said they have no intention of working in the US in the visa interview? How long before they come for us, for using the legal immigration loopholes to enter the job market? Is it fair for qualified spouses to stay home when they can contribute to the economy - absolutely not!! But in the eyes of the americans, are they taking away the jobs? absolutely!
IF not now, these very people will come after us too..

what do you think?
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2010, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by realist View Post
Lets look at Rep. Smith - Reclaim American Jobs Caucus | Congressman Lamar Smith

border control, we are against amnesty. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Provide solutions, if not a path towards legalization with due fines, what alternative do you suggest?

what do you think?
Good question.
The first point is illegals have to be paid at american laborer wages. They are currently dragging down labor wages. if the wage is monitored like H1b and set by the govt, enough american citizens of the 15 million unemployed, will take these jobs and illegals will have to leave.
Most people may not know, there are millions of American farmers, roofers, etc, who can't find a job because of illegals. We compete with americans at the same salary and with the disadvantage of visa overhead.

Not enough money? This is a big misconception and false statement thrown out by supporters of illegals. here are a few numbers thrown quickly:

a) It costs 1.5 billion dollars a year to put one armed soldier on every 100 yards of the border. Employment for 30,000 in the army.

b) it costs about 1 billion to deport 1 million illegals by plane. Do this for 2 years and enough will leave on their own.

These costs are trivial compared to a 2 Trillion annual budget and b) is a one time cost if we have a). Billions will be saved in welfare, housing, food stamps, education.

protecting the border is as important as fighting wars, which have already cost 100s of billions, if not more.

Will talk about H4 later, but the motto has always been - 'best person for the job' at legitimate American wages.
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Last edited by tonyHK12; 10-27-2010 at 01:10 PM. Reason: employment for 30,000 citizens
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2010, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realist View Post
Lets look at Rep. Smith - Reclaim American Jobs Caucus | Congressman Lamar Smith
he is against amnesty and for border control.
--> the cir menendez bill has all the border control provisions that the republicans want (in fact, it is entirely what they want) - so one issue is addressed.
--> illegal immigrants who are already in the country - record number of them have been deported in the 2 years under this administration (more than the republican presidents in the past!), trying to deport them all will take billions of dollars (which the govt does not have - or will it be charged on the legal immigrants?). Yes, one should not support lawbreakers, but just saying that does not solve the problems......what proposals are there that will address the illegal immigrants? nothing.
the talking points are:
border control, we are against amnesty. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Provide solutions, if not a path towards legalization with due fines, what alternative do you suggest?

Lamar Smith's webpage:

--> Sounds pro legal immigrants right. For now, yes.
--> How many of the H4 spouses said they have no intention of working in the US in the visa interview? How long before they come for us, for using the legal immigration loopholes to enter the job market? Is it fair for qualified spouses to stay home when they can contribute to the economy - absolutely not!! But in the eyes of the americans, are they taking away the jobs? absolutely!
IF not now, these very people will come after us too..

what do you think?

Frankly, I have not yet heard any noise being created regarding H4s converting to H1s and joining the workforce, legally.

If someone who came here on an H4/F2, upgrades their skillset via formal education (no issues in this case!) or via professional training and the ability to fake experience and sell it to land a "project" (no legal issues here, only moral issues and hats off to their guts.. How do they do that??) then they absolutely deserve to be in the workforce.

There is a lot of noise about H1Bs but most of it was focussed on Indian IT giants locking up the H1Bs by the 1000s and (in the anti-immigrant lobby's words) "bring in cheap labor from India". Another blemish brought about on H1B is "gross exploitation of systemic loopholes by IT consulting companies (mostly owned by Indians) ". These issues are being addressed by USCIS by increasing scruitny before issuing new H1B approvals.

If your company has played by the rules, your credentials are not flawed, there is very little to worry about.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2010, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tonyHK12 View Post
Good question.
The first point is illegals have to be paid at american laborer wages. They are currently dragging down labor wages. if the wage is monitored like H1b and set by the govt, enough american citizens of the 15 million unemployed, will take these jobs and illegals will have to leave.
Most people may not know, there are millions of American farmers, roofers, etc, who can't find a job because of illegals. We compete with americans at the same salary and with the disadvantage of visa overhead.

Not enough money? This is a big misconception and false statement thrown out by supporters of illegals. here are a few numbers thrown quickly:

a) It costs 1.5 billion dollars a year to put one armed soldier on every 100 yards of the border. Employment for 30,000 in the army.

b) it costs about 1 billion to deport 1 million illegals by plane. Do this for 2 years and enough will leave on their own.

These costs are trivial compared to a 2 Trillion annual budget and b) is a one time cost if we have a). Billions will be saved in welfare, housing, food stamps, education.

protecting the border is as important as fighting wars, which have already cost 100s of billions, if not more.

Will talk about H4 later, but the motto has always been - 'best person for the job' at legitimate American wages.

Mass deportations will NEVER happen. Its too damn expensive and a lot of moral issues come into the equation.

I agree that border security should be the first step before any sort of legislative relief is discussed for Illegal Immigration. There were 3.5 million illegal aliens in 1986 when amnesty was passed. Today the number is 12 million+.
While the border can never be made tamper proof, increased surveillance, smarter use of technology to prevent identity theft can make it difficult for anyone wanting to enter the US illegally and find work, here. That would reduce the incentive to illegally migrate here.

I am more optimistic for something positive to happen with Republicans at the helm than the Democrats coz to take a positive step, you have to be clear on your position. With an unprecedented majority, the Dems could not accomplish anything with regards to Immigration. All they came up with phony legislations, just to keep the carrot dangling. If they were one bit serious about tackling this issue, they would have started to work on the bill in Congress introduced by Guitierrez, last year instead of blowing hot air with a "Schumer - Graham" bill and a "Menendez" bill at the eleventh hour.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2010, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ChampU2008 View Post
Mass deportations will NEVER happen. Its too damn expensive and a lot of moral issues come into the equation.

I agree that border security should be the first step before any sort of legislative relief is discussed for Illegal Immigration. There were 3.5 million illegal aliens in 1986 when amnesty was passed. Today the number is 12 million+.
.
What's so immoral about sending them to their home country without splitting families? We are not putting them in prison/guantanamo. The first amnesty was a big mistake and not justifiable. C'mon 8 billion is a expensive? Illegals cost California 10.5 billion a year in welfare, stamps, education...

"That would reduce the incentive to illegally migrate here."
tough punishments and deportation would discourage every one

"I am more optimistic for something positive to happen with Republicans at the helm than the Democrats coz to take a positive step, you have to be clear on your position. With an unprecedented majority, the Dems could not accomplish anything with regards to Immigration. All they came up with phony legislations, just to keep the carrot dangling."

Agreed. I still fail to understand how a change in medical insurance can boost the economy or improve unemployment.

Interestingly this is the number one search result on Google for "Bill for Legal immigration"

Might well make the most of it!
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2010, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyHK12 View Post
What's so immoral about sending them to their home country without splitting families? We are not putting them in prison/guantanamo. The first amnesty was a big mistake and not justifiable. C'mon 8 billion is a expensive? Illegals cost California 10.5 billion a year in welfare, stamps, education...
There have been a number of publications that have shown that the vast majority of the "illegal" immigrants actually pay SS and Medicare taxes. They also contribute to federal and state tax regardless of the benefit that they receive from it. (Some of these publications have been presented in Congress over the years). What some of the right wing folks (like Lou Dobbs) say is that they are sucking the system dry. That is very debatable. The fact that they can only avail of emergency medical care is the fault of the system here in the US.

Quote:
"That would reduce the incentive to illegally migrate here."
tough punishments and deportation would discourage every one
Not sure if you are aware that a majority of the farmers especially in the South are willing to hire American workers but have had no success. The only thing that the US DOL have managed to confirm is that there is a shortage of workers. Can some of those be filled by American workers? Sure some but not all. Its just that lots of them don't want to fill those positions for various reasons. An American I met a few days ago was telling me about how he was unemployed for almost 3 years. He is a well educated person and didn't think it made sense for him to find low-skilled labor!

"I am more optimistic for something positive to happen with Republicans at the helm than the Democrats coz to take a positive step, you have to be clear on your position. With an unprecedented majority, the Dems could not accomplish anything with regards to Immigration. All they came up with phony legislations, just to keep the carrot dangling."

Quote:
Agreed. I still fail to understand how a change in medical insurance can boost the economy or improve unemployment.
The reason there has been this huge push for health care reform is that it becoming a huge drain on the system. About 60% of bankruptcies in the US were due to medical bills. You and I might be lucky that we are healthy and employer paid insurance. Millions don't have that benefit. Also consider that some people couldn't buy insurance because they had hit a "lifetime limit"! So if someone has cancer (which I might tell you is frightfully expensive to treat), and then had a relapse, you could very well hit that lifetime limit. So once you retire, you would have no recourse. Also remember that health care was declared a human right by the United Nations. (see the UNDHR Article 25)

Quote:
Interestingly this is the number one search result on Google for "Bill for Legal immigration"

Might well make the most of it!
I agree that the immigration system here is a violation of civil rights because we, too, like the "illegals" contribute to a system that we cannot benefit from anytime soon. (Like social security and Medicare). We do need to push legislators to come up with a good immigration policy. Bashing another immigrant because they came here to do something different from you is not going to get us very far. Be compassionate towards those people too. They too contribute positively in a very different way to society here in the US.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2010, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsouza View Post
There have been a number of publications that have shown that the vast majority of the "illegal" immigrants actually pay SS and Medicare taxes. They also contribute to federal and state tax regardless of the benefit that they receive from it.
Well it is against the law to employ illegals and this is enforced strictly, so we can forget about tax deduction at source, SS, etc. It will be minuscule. These so called publications are from their supporters which they have numerous of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsouza View Post
majority of the farmers especially in the South are willing to hire American workers but have had no success................ An American I met a few days ago was telling me about how he was unemployed for almost 3 years. He is a well educated person and didn't think it made sense for him to find low-skilled labor!
I am aware of that well publicized stunt. Do you know we have only 800K farm workers and 1.5 million farm workers were granted amnesty in 1986?
The only way to get cheap labor is with short term foreign contract labor, amnesty will never work, they have to return anyway.
The farmer will stop working in the farm, the day he gets his GC. Lets not compare an educated american. A citizen with no schooling would take the job at the right wage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsouza View Post
The reason there has been this huge push for health care reform is that it becoming a huge drain on the system. About 60% of bankruptcies in the US were due to medical bills.
There is no proof that the new bill will reduce costs at all! It will take many years to realize it anyway. Reform was needed but not at this moment when there were bigger issues that needed fixing in 6-12 months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsouza View Post
we, too, like the "illegals" contribute to a system that we cannot benefit from anytime soon. (Like social security and Medicare). We do need to push legislators to come up with a good immigration policy. Bashing another immigrant because they came here to do something different from you is not going to get us very far. Be compassionate towards those people too
We are not like illegals. The only one who is like them is an illegal employee at a gas station or grocery store.
My aim is not to bash them, I hope they can find a solution. Citizenship is not the answer and I'm tired of seeing all immigration bills partial to illegals. They should go to the back of the queue and get reform only after legal immigration is fixed. Their supporters are hampering our efforts. The sad news is they thought they could get amnesty like 86, but most will end up being deported.
Do you know of the 400,000 deported this year 50% were convicted criminals?
Compassion should be preceded by what is better for the US. There are millions of poorer people in Africa and India who need more help. These countries have better farmers too.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2010, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tonyHK12 View Post
Well it is against the law to employ illegals and this is enforced strictly, so we can forget about tax deduction at source, SS, etc. It will be minuscule. These so called publications are from their supporters which they have numerous of.
Yes, there lies 1/2 the problem. Illegal immigrants will come as long as there is somebody ready to provide them a job. If the business owners are held accountable with heavy fines and punishment - half the problem is solved and the other half of the problem will gradually come to an end. But such enforcements are not there and are not widely talked about. Easy to blame the illegals when they are looking for betterment of life, while the business owners are lapping in luxury!

Bring the border control, and add in tough enforcement on business that hire illegals - and then you still will have to address the people who are still here illegally. It may not be 12 million, but millions will still remain. That issue has to be addressed. The current president has said that they are to be a given a "path to legality" - pay the fine (yes, it may be trivial in our standards, but not theirs) and get in line. It is not blanket amnesty either.

Most of us in this forum don't support law breaking, at the same time, we have to be practical.....

Quote:
There is no proof that the new bill will reduce costs at all! It will take many years to realize it anyway. Reform was needed but not at this moment when there were bigger issues that needed fixing in 6-12 months.
What reform was needed first? immigration reform before health reform? lets fix the problems of the foreigners first, and then lets take care of the dying? Does that sound right? Even otherwise, which ever reform the president and the congress had taken, would it have gotten support?

economy is doing well = tax break; economy is not doing well = tax break - does that make sense?
big govt is bad! please vote for me, I want to run for the govt!
education - we don't have much money. defense - we are always under attack, so lets spend more money on 20th century war craft!
list goes on an on.......

Quote:
Citizenship is not the answer and I'm tired of seeing all immigration bills partial to illegals.
agreed
Quote:
They should go to the back of the queue and get reform only after legal immigration is fixed.
They should go to the back of the queue and get reform along with legal immigration.
Quote:
Their supporters are hampering our efforts.
absolutely! wouldn't you? they play the game of leverage and we would do the same.
Quote:
There are millions of poorer people in Africa and India who need more help. These countries have better farmers too.
If they shared borders with the US, they would have done exactly what the mexicans are doing.

The sad thing that separates our community from theirs is that they stand up for their own people irrespective of wealth. Take our community - of the hundreds who got the green card/citizenship - how many stay to help us? Why are the older generation of Indian immigrants fighting the new comers?
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2010, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by desigirl View Post
Bring the border control, and add in tough enforcement on business that hire illegals - and then you still will have to address the people who are still here illegally. It may not be 12 million, but millions will still remain. That issue has to be addressed. The current president has said that they are to be a given a "path to legality" - pay the fine (yes, it may be trivial in our standards, but not theirs) and get in line. It is not blanket amnesty either.
Yes tough border control and employer monitoring should be there. Progress on the second is improving , a bit slowly.
Yes I am ok for a path to legality, but from my previous post, only if all of them are accounted for and have background check, get all their finger prints, retina scan, and at least 1/2 would get deported with criminal backgrounds.
We cannot have 4 million legalized and 3 million criminals hiding in the background. Also as CIR says only after the border is 100% secure, else you will have 10s of 1000s jumping the border everyday when this bill is passed.
Well the illegals kids also already got citizenship/amnesty in the millions.

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Originally Posted by desigirl View Post
What reform was needed first? immigration reform before health reform? lets fix the problems of the foreigners first, and then lets take care of the dying?
I actually meant reform to improve un-employment was needed first. What good is medical insurance if there's only $100 in the bank. Well anyway they seem to have exhausted all their resources, bailouts.

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Originally Posted by desigirl View Post
absolutely! wouldn't you? they play the game of leverage and we would do the same.
They have leverage only until they are deported! Yeah I agree, but its more a hallmark of underworld, that many are entwined with, rather than a civilized society.

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Originally Posted by desigirl View Post
The sad thing that separates our community from theirs is that they stand up for their own people irrespective of wealth. Take our community - of the hundreds who got the green card/citizenship - how many stay to help us? Why are the older generation of Indian immigrants fighting the new comers?
Agreed. Also there are 13.5 Asian Americans in the US, enough of a vote bank. All EB3s are at 2005. Mexico is at priority date 2001, which is worse than India, China. There are about 30 million Mexican immigrants, in the US, probably 15 million legally present. Most immigrant in EB3 from Europe and around the world are also affected.
There are probably about 30-40 million people or more Citizens/ GCs/immigrants , from retrogressed countries in the US..
I haven't seen citizens, GCs in large numbers supporting our cause. Would they rather see the country brimming with laborers?
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2010, 11:24 AM
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Default H2A Visa already exists for labourers...

Aha! just found out about the H2A Visa, which was what was exactly needed for labour and agriculture and already exists. This visa is very much like a H1b in protecting wages of american labourers, and exists for immigrants from Mexico.

Thank you attorney Greg Siskind for the information.

But no they want Citizenship directly and dont want to go through the hassle of Visa, when its easier to cross the border with no background check. The H-2A mandated they compete with American citizens for the job.
They have shown that they choose to break laws when there was a legal option available. Someone mentioned earlier that they have no options.
The H2A ensures only quality labourers and agriculture workers are hired, instead of criminals. Well this is one option for a legal path to illegals. If someone cannot qualify for a H-2A, then they probably have something that very negative in their resume.
The employer had to pay only $100 for the application and $10 for each labourer.

Well if an illegal without H-2A is considered for amnesty, I can't believe a H-1B is being completely ignored for all his contributions. Just shows some basic human values, fairness are completely absent.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2010, 12:20 PM
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Greg Siskind on Immigration Law and Policy: LIBERTARIANS: TIME TO RE-LEGALIZE IMMIGRATION
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