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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2011, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlainSpeak View Post
well, the people who are in eb3 and cannot do anything about it, for reasons that you quoted, i agree, it is a pity. but, you know what, "life is not fair".
Yes life is not fair but when we get a chance to be fair we (And that includes me also) let it go by.

it is a good thing u worry about others, and want to help them. however, when u look at those bills you mentioned and none getting passed. yes, it may look like a waste to do anything. however, we need to keep trying. with the limited resources we have, i think we should focus on "things/bills/issues" the IMPACT most people. doing something only for eb3 or eb2, in my opinion, would be even more difficult, given the progress legal immigration has made in this country. so, may be, u cud help in getting the things done that impact more people.
What i porposed was doing something in the DV bill for badly retrogressed applicants (There wil be no reference to EB3 or EB2). Now the fact that this might help EB3 is because EB3 is the most badly retrogressed section.


and it is ur decision not to go eb2 (even, with the resources you mentioned). have to admit, thats strange. may be u r like me, who is not obsessed with a gc. however, we live in a society, in a system (however flawed it may be), and we all try to live by those rules, try to use opportunities that are available legally and make our lives, a little better.
You know what i was tempted to do EB2 but my sense of right and wrong prevented me. My mess up the already loaded and unstable system with another app when i already have one. Now for persons who are in EB3 (Please remove me from the equation) are thier not because they wanted to but because of the way thei whole immigration crap has evolved. Sure porting will help me out and i wil not need to justify this to anyone else but i will have to face myself. I know most people do not get it. It is doing right.

i came to this country in 1999, i have a MS, PHD from a reputed Comp Sci program. Many people who (still) dont know much about Computer Sci. came into the dept, got their MS and have been very successful, making tons of money. i am a guy whose bs, ms and phd is in Comp Sci. i think u will find may 2 or 3 guz out of may 10, who have a degree in CS, particularly in the undergrad. i used to be very mad at all the electrical, mechanical etc guz getting software jobs. i used to hate almost all software professionals coz i thought i had to work very had for my ranks, on my gpa and on my degrees and see there are people who are making as much as i do, with none of that. slowly, but surely, i have come to terms that "life is not fair" and then, what if fellow human beings can get good jobs, whats wrong with that?? is how i started to see it, (as long as they are good enough).
No comments there i agree with you

what i am trying to say is please think in a global scale and help solve issues which can impact the MOST number of people and not just a minority. coz, the exceptions u stated, will be there for any issue.
Global scale. I thought we were on scale of US. Please let me correct you EB3 is not a minority but a Majority in the EB community. just because a situation is not worth helping is not any reason to not step forward. I personally feel that IV can do something which will help EB3 because that i sthe only category which has no help from anyone. As for EB2 i have no grudges against them . You got your GC or will get it soon and all the best of luck to you, but if something can be done for EB3 it should be

Jai Hind
Ok the official negetive count is 4500 MINUS for me so i guess no one stepped up and tried to do the right thing. Ok you know what guys there is nothing else to talk here any more and i guess things will never change here. So here is what i am going to do

1. I have a final reply to make to Mr VBKris77. Once i make the reply i will be gone for the day so i will not check any reply. I hope that the reply will answer all the people out here who are asking for some plan from me. Its a start but what is more important is that you guys realize that there was a serious intent and will to do something. There is one suggestion in the reply which i am sure will raise a big laugh from all you guys but please remember that the flower campaign was in the same vein and inspried by the same great man and that went on to be a hugh success.

2. Now to really make it a point that i am done here i will delete by account (If i can) or i would request IV Core and/or IV Admin to delete my account. If that can be done i would appreciate it. If anyone else can do it that will really be a big thing. Regarding the Post. If it gets deleted well and good and i would prefer it gets deleted because there has been no impact of the thread and when i say impact i mean impact in thinking of senior members and donors
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2011, 06:20 PM
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Default

You have a valid point about the DV visa bil.. But you forgot one thing, Any immigration bill altering INA will also have recapture attached to it..
One more point it takes 15K to give a paper ad to say that IV supports this bill.. Do you want to run a campaign for this?? I will convince IV Core if you come even close to that $ number...
If and when this bill goes for voting on the floor, I think your valid point about giving these immigrant visas to the oldest applicants first until current backlog is eliminated can be considered as a viable amendment/feedback to lawmakers..
But I wouldn't hold my breath for that day...


To VBKris77

Now THATS what i call a solid arguing point and THATS what i call a discussion
VBKris77 - Please do not think that i am being patronising when i stated what i did above, but all my efforts and abuse taking till now were for this point of time and this reply to my inital post. Infact i was looking for someone to start something in this vein and had to wait till now. Now my faith in my fellow men has been justified (I know that was a bit melodramatic but hey after all the abuses i went through i think i can be just that bit wet in the eyes). You sir have hit the nail on the head. Now when i see your reply i got more questions. If you can clarify this for me i would appreciate it or If you know of any location on this forum where i can look see and get self educated that would be appreciated too

You have a valid point about the DV visa bil.. But you forgot one thing, Any immigration bill
altering INA will also have recapture attached to it..

My point about DV visa to most badly retrograded apps was because they have been the ones who have waited the longest out here. Now if this was recapture or removing country quota i would feel that the regular allocation would be correct. Since this is a one off my peronal feeling was that we could direct the spillover to extra retrograded apps and get some relief there

My question are -
Would DV visa to Employment based in any form be considered as an immigration bill
- What is altering INA
- So if the DV bill be considered as an immigration bill the idea of IV is that if we can get this into a law the implementation of the 50 k visas will be in the same way as the implementation of recapture bill (So that would be all spill over to EB2 till EB2 is current and then to EB3- And please that was a question for clarification not a jibe as some of the people out here would make it to be).

One more point it takes 15K to give a paper ad to say that IV supports this bill.. Do you want to run a campaign for this?? I will convince IV Core if you come even close to that $ number...
Ok to get this straight the money needs to be collected (Campaign is run) and the amount of 15 k be collected before IV will support the campaign. Just getting things in right perspective.

Tell me something please, would a campaign involve asking every one who comes in to IV forum for donations for the campaign. The reason i ask is because to run a campaign for this effort is a great idea and I have some thoughts on it but most importantly i would need the help of all the members EB2/EB3 (yes even the ones who abused me) because you guys have experience in it.

My opinion is that if we run a campaign it would have to be with a slogan that if and only if this bill gets passed the DV visas will fall to the badly retrogressed apps first. If we say that the regular recapture way wil be implemented then i think this campaign is a dead duck before even starting.

I have an idea which might or might not work but i feel that IV needs to start a disclaimer for any campaign which will state that this is the path to be taken (and of course stick with the path) and state that X % is the chance of success and that these specific situations have to occurr for any chance of the bill succeding, I mean like a flow chart and also specific tasks which have to be done by people willing to participate in the campaign. Now i do not know if you (And only you because you talk sense. If any body else want to comment with logic and way to improve they are welcome. Abusers wil be ignored) have got the sense of what i am saying but as a person who is looking at IV from the outside everything i have proposed above is based on certain hard facts which are formed as a result of my deductions by observing IV all these years

For a campaign
1. Please do not try and educate a person out here because when you do you gets very high handed. Provide them a tool (Flow charts and all i talked about before) and direct them to a location where they have access to the tool and let them form an opinion based on their self education. That way they will understand what are the 1000's of steps involved in this effort. This will lead to the fact that since the are self educated they know the risk and the percent of success or failure of the effort and when they participate they are fully aware of what are the stakes involved. This also gets to convert all the people out there (to the ones above) who are under the impression that giving money to IV will get the job done and when the job does not get done they start feeling that IV has cheated them and start making assumptions.

I know that part of what i said will look a lot like what IV was doing. Yes IV when it started was like that but somehow over the years it has become very intolerent and as some members have stated very abusive senior memebers which is very shocking. A personal effort by each and every member of IV to show civilized behaviour and make civilized conversation is a mandatory requirement. In fact (i know i wil get laughed at and ridiculed for this but) a post by each and every donor and senior member taking an oath that no matter what the provocation they will not abuse anyone on the forum will be the first step. This can also be part of new member sign up. And of course IV has the tool in hand to delete any thread they think is determental to their cause so no issues there but i would suggest making an extra effort to find out what the idea behind the person is before deleting the thread.

If and when this bill goes for voting on the floor, I think your valid point about giving these
immigrant visas to the oldest applicants first until current backlog is eliminated can be
considered as a viable amendment/feedback to lawmakers..


Ok now i am lost. What is the objective of the campaign
1. Add the provisions to the bill
OR
2. Make sure that the bill passes

Because they are both 2 different things and that brings me to my next point which is clarity of campaign (includingLetters to law makers/ donations etc). Calrity is very important here. There has been a kind of secrecy in IV which is cause of much pain and disturst. Of course i understand why the secrecy was put in first place. It must have been because of all the anti immigrants lurking around but when you think about it if the members are self educated (Like how i stated above) there is no need to inform any updates to them and hence there would be no need for secrecy. A donor forum will of
course continue as is because some things need to be discussed.

But I wouldn't hold my breath for that day...
Sir i never held my breath for this ever. Even though i am not part of IV i am aware of all the probability of success in such endevors
It was nice discussing the above with you.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2011, 07:37 PM
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Default Some simple facts

1. Visa recapture gives 500K visas to EB in total, or about 143K visas on top of 40K visas. So for that year there will be enough to clear the entire existing backlog. Also there will be another 140K visas coming from EB1, another 140k from EB2 will drip down to EB3. So if you count again, it is very beneficial to go after 500K visas than 50K visas.

2. This DV bill will not see the day of life.. It is dead on arrival.. There is a reason for DV visas and that reason still exists..

3. IV Core is more involved than we all know.. So I guess throwing mud at them is not fair anytime.. It is not possible to inform every thing to everybody always.. That will remain a fact going forward..

I totally agree with your point about abuse, I faced it myself while leading some earlier threads.. So either those who are leading the thread need to get over it or stop posting in public forum.. Even IV Core is no exception to issue.. But in this country every one has 1st amendment rights.. I don't think IV can stop it..

Coming to campaign ideas, IV Coordinator would always like to hear them.. So get in touch with. You can write to her @ ivcoordinator@gmail.com and talk to her..

Let me tell you one point, if we can't get the government recapture what was wasted by their own delays in processing, we can't do anything else.. Leaving some right wing nuts, everyone else supports this bill.. DV bill has lot of opposition.. So place your bets accordingly..


Quote:
Originally Posted by PlainSpeak View Post
You have a valid point about the DV visa bil.. But you forgot one thing, Any immigration bill altering INA will also have recapture attached to it..
One more point it takes 15K to give a paper ad to say that IV supports this bill.. Do you want to run a campaign for this?? I will convince IV Core if you come even close to that $ number...
If and when this bill goes for voting on the floor, I think your valid point about giving these immigrant visas to the oldest applicants first until current backlog is eliminated can be considered as a viable amendment/feedback to lawmakers..
But I wouldn't hold my breath for that day...


To VBKris77

Now THATS what i call a solid arguing point and THATS what i call a discussion
VBKris77 - Please do not think that i am being patronising when i stated what i did above, but all my efforts and abuse taking till now were for this point of time and this reply to my inital post. Infact i was looking for someone to start something in this vein and had to wait till now. Now my faith in my fellow men has been justified (I know that was a bit melodramatic but hey after all the abuses i went through i think i can be just that bit wet in the eyes). You sir have hit the nail on the head. Now when i see your reply i got more questions. If you can clarify this for me i would appreciate it or If you know of any location on this forum where i can look see and get self educated that would be appreciated too

You have a valid point about the DV visa bil.. But you forgot one thing, Any immigration bill
altering INA will also have recapture attached to it..

My point about DV visa to most badly retrograded apps was because they have been the ones who have waited the longest out here. Now if this was recapture or removing country quota i would feel that the regular allocation would be correct. Since this is a one off my peronal feeling was that we could direct the spillover to extra retrograded apps and get some relief there

My question are -
Would DV visa to Employment based in any form be considered as an immigration bill
- What is altering INA
- So if the DV bill be considered as an immigration bill the idea of IV is that if we can get this into a law the implementation of the 50 k visas will be in the same way as the implementation of recapture bill (So that would be all spill over to EB2 till EB2 is current and then to EB3- And please that was a question for clarification not a jibe as some of the people out here would make it to be).

One more point it takes 15K to give a paper ad to say that IV supports this bill.. Do you want to run a campaign for this?? I will convince IV Core if you come even close to that $ number...
Ok to get this straight the money needs to be collected (Campaign is run) and the amount of 15 k be collected before IV will support the campaign. Just getting things in right perspective.

Tell me something please, would a campaign involve asking every one who comes in to IV forum for donations for the campaign. The reason i ask is because to run a campaign for this effort is a great idea and I have some thoughts on it but most importantly i would need the help of all the members EB2/EB3 (yes even the ones who abused me) because you guys have experience in it.

My opinion is that if we run a campaign it would have to be with a slogan that if and only if this bill gets passed the DV visas will fall to the badly retrogressed apps first. If we say that the regular recapture way wil be implemented then i think this campaign is a dead duck before even starting.

I have an idea which might or might not work but i feel that IV needs to start a disclaimer for any campaign which will state that this is the path to be taken (and of course stick with the path) and state that X % is the chance of success and that these specific situations have to occurr for any chance of the bill succeding, I mean like a flow chart and also specific tasks which have to be done by people willing to participate in the campaign. Now i do not know if you (And only you because you talk sense. If any body else want to comment with logic and way to improve they are welcome. Abusers wil be ignored) have got the sense of what i am saying but as a person who is looking at IV from the outside everything i have proposed above is based on certain hard facts which are formed as a result of my deductions by observing IV all these years

For a campaign
1. Please do not try and educate a person out here because when you do you gets very high handed. Provide them a tool (Flow charts and all i talked about before) and direct them to a location where they have access to the tool and let them form an opinion based on their self education. That way they will understand what are the 1000's of steps involved in this effort. This will lead to the fact that since the are self educated they know the risk and the percent of success or failure of the effort and when they participate they are fully aware of what are the stakes involved. This also gets to convert all the people out there (to the ones above) who are under the impression that giving money to IV will get the job done and when the job does not get done they start feeling that IV has cheated them and start making assumptions.

I know that part of what i said will look a lot like what IV was doing. Yes IV when it started was like that but somehow over the years it has become very intolerent and as some members have stated very abusive senior memebers which is very shocking. A personal effort by each and every member of IV to show civilized behaviour and make civilized conversation is a mandatory requirement. In fact (i know i wil get laughed at and ridiculed for this but) a post by each and every donor and senior member taking an oath that no matter what the provocation they will not abuse anyone on the forum will be the first step. This can also be part of new member sign up. And of course IV has the tool in hand to delete any thread they think is determental to their cause so no issues there but i would suggest making an extra effort to find out what the idea behind the person is before deleting the thread.

If and when this bill goes for voting on the floor, I think your valid point about giving these
immigrant visas to the oldest applicants first until current backlog is eliminated can be
considered as a viable amendment/feedback to lawmakers..


Ok now i am lost. What is the objective of the campaign
1. Add the provisions to the bill
OR
2. Make sure that the bill passes

Because they are both 2 different things and that brings me to my next point which is clarity of campaign (includingLetters to law makers/ donations etc). Calrity is very important here. There has been a kind of secrecy in IV which is cause of much pain and disturst. Of course i understand why the secrecy was put in first place. It must have been because of all the anti immigrants lurking around but when you think about it if the members are self educated (Like how i stated above) there is no need to inform any updates to them and hence there would be no need for secrecy. A donor forum will of
course continue as is because some things need to be discussed.

But I wouldn't hold my breath for that day...
Sir i never held my breath for this ever. Even though i am not part of IV i am aware of all the probability of success in such endevors
It was nice discussing the above with you.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2011, 07:43 PM
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Default "final reply"

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlainSpeak View Post
well, the people who are in eb3 and cannot do anything about it, for reasons that you quoted, i agree, it is a pity. but, you know what, "life is not fair".
Yes life is not fair but when we get a chance to be fair we (And that includes me also) let it go by.

it is a good thing u worry about others, and want to help them. however, when u look at those bills you mentioned and none getting passed. yes, it may look like a waste to do anything. however, we need to keep trying. with the limited resources we have, i think we should focus on "things/bills/issues" the IMPACT most people. doing something only for eb3 or eb2, in my opinion, would be even more difficult, given the progress legal immigration has made in this country. so, may be, u cud help in getting the things done that impact more people.
What i porposed was doing something in the DV bill for badly retrogressed applicants (There wil be no reference to EB3 or EB2). Now the fact that this might help EB3 is because EB3 is the most badly retrogressed section.


and it is ur decision not to go eb2 (even, with the resources you mentioned). have to admit, thats strange. may be u r like me, who is not obsessed with a gc. however, we live in a society, in a system (however flawed it may be), and we all try to live by those rules, try to use opportunities that are available legally and make our lives, a little better.
You know what i was tempted to do EB2 but my sense of right and wrong prevented me. My mess up the already loaded and unstable system with another app when i already have one. Now for persons who are in EB3 (Please remove me from the equation) are thier not because they wanted to but because of the way thei whole immigration crap has evolved. Sure porting will help me out and i wil not need to justify this to anyone else but i will have to face myself. I know most people do not get it. It is doing right.

i came to this country in 1999, i have a MS, PHD from a reputed Comp Sci program. Many people who (still) dont know much about Computer Sci. came into the dept, got their MS and have been very successful, making tons of money. i am a guy whose bs, ms and phd is in Comp Sci. i think u will find may 2 or 3 guz out of may 10, who have a degree in CS, particularly in the undergrad. i used to be very mad at all the electrical, mechanical etc guz getting software jobs. i used to hate almost all software professionals coz i thought i had to work very had for my ranks, on my gpa and on my degrees and see there are people who are making as much as i do, with none of that. slowly, but surely, i have come to terms that "life is not fair" and then, what if fellow human beings can get good jobs, whats wrong with that?? is how i started to see it, (as long as they are good enough).
No comments there i agree with you

what i am trying to say is please think in a global scale and help solve issues which can impact the MOST number of people and not just a minority. coz, the exceptions u stated, will be there for any issue.
Global scale. I thought we were on scale of US. Please let me correct you EB3 is not a minority but a Majority in the EB community. just because a situation is not worth helping is not any reason to not step forward. I personally feel that IV can do something which will help EB3 because that i sthe only category which has no help from anyone. As for EB2 i have no grudges against them . You got your GC or will get it soon and all the best of luck to you, but if something can be done for EB3 it should be

Jai Hind
well, it is noble to do what is "right" and to always stand for it. but, i dont believe for a second porting is "wrong". u wouldn't agree though but u dont have problems when others port. i have no argument about that.

people r in eb3, not becoz they want to. sure, i agree, given a choice, everyone will pick eb1. however, the question is, why have they been put there?? nobody forced them to. u dont qualify for other categories, u deal with it. (there may a few exceptions to that). so, i wud not feel really bad for people who had to be in eb3 (cud be lack of need qualifications or any other reasons, even things out of their control). as i said "life is not fair".

i think it is global, aren't there ROW eb3 people who are retrogressed as well. now, u may have a point in saying that eb3 is the majority. isn't that the case anywhere. take a look at the train (first class- few people, second class - more, general -- a lot). pls dont take this example as derogatory, becoz i dont mean it that way. my intention is usually the most generic category (that which may apply to most people) is most crowded. so, doing something wud probably impact a whole number of people--which means yes, anything possible that somebody can, should and must do.

however, that and being ahead in time, cannot be used as the only reasons to bypass eb2 and service or even share with eb3 (i think this was something proposed by some eb3 folks on this forum), i wud not agree. there were some other suggestions too, that i thought was not right. and i have already talked to you about my logic as to why.

i just thought working towards something that applies to "ALL" would be the way to go. But, I can kind of see your point too. Best of luck in whatever you do.

Finally, I did not answer your reply promptly as I was on my way back from work and I replied the first chance I got. (now, i'll go watch social network and relax, i have family visiting me). and thanks for wishing me for my gc. i wish the same to u.

Jai Hind
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2011, 10:26 PM
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Default Lighten UP!

You should change your user name to PALIN_Speak and all will ignore your messages!
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  #111 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2011, 04:18 AM
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EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts
Cool Lmao

Quote:
i will certainly comment on this gcperm issue. I mean who is this guy ?? Has he messed up you peoples mind so bad that you keep seeing him everywhere. I mean what has he said that was so bad that you guys start frothing at you mouth and behaving like this.
:d:d:d:d
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2011, 04:22 AM
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Default This is real cool

Quote:
and yes my friend tinyhk12
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2011, 04:44 AM
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EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts EB-VoiceImmigration is infamous around these parts
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2011, 11:37 AM
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Priority Date
:
Before 2000
Category
:
EB1
I140 Mailed Date
:
Chargeability
:
India
Processing Stage
:
N/A
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:
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 424
PlainSpeak is infamous around these parts PlainSpeak is infamous around these parts PlainSpeak is infamous around these parts PlainSpeak is infamous around these parts PlainSpeak is infamous around these parts PlainSpeak is infamous around these parts PlainSpeak is infamous around these parts PlainSpeak is infamous around these parts PlainSpeak is infamous around these parts PlainSpeak is infamous around these parts PlainSpeak is infamous around these parts
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