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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 09:30 PM
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Default sour grapes

Some disgruntled nurse has given me lot of red dots for my post. It was all pun intended guys. My post isnt going to make situation better or worse for nurses. In any cases they are much better off than me.

Pls give me some greens now!
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 09:40 PM
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Default Offcourse they will be pushed forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by here4gc View Post
Who is american...confessed to me that he was ACTUALLY a nurse...before moving over to IT - he says..the pay and the JOB STINKS...now we know why NURSES are ahead of us rite ????

GORAS want only stinking jobs to get Greencards and continue to get thanked for the OPPORTUNITY provided...our jobs are what they envy...thats why they are making us suffer...

I have nothing against nurses, we all wud be nowhere without them, for the care that they provide and they are well respected and I bow my head to that profession...but pushing them in front of the line..just because US needs nurses...that stinks..

Next we know they will call sweepers, Toilet cleaners, garbage cleaners, Drain sweepers and rag pickers in the line in front of us...because people here don't want to do those jobs...i don't know what degree is needed to qualify there..or maybe they will stamp GC in the airport itself..upon landing..(Like the good old days!!!)
we might not like it but EB green card is about getting people to do the work that needs to be done to keep USA moving forward it has nothing to do with what degree you have or how smart you are, we may not like it but that is a fact. So if nurses get pushed to the front of the queue because America needs then that is what the system is supposed to do. so in this case I think the system is working. That said I do think America needs bright people with advanced degree as well and hence they should increase the quota limits etc... or may be get rid for the country limits etc... I continue to hope and pray for those measures. If we want to vent our anger we should wend it at the politicians who are anti immigrant or racists or are the politicians like the once in Hispanic caucus who are trying to block the EB relief for the illegal immigration cause.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 10:43 PM
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Default I agree with dilber

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Originally Posted by dilber View Post
we might not like it but EB green card is about getting people to do the work that needs to be done to keep USA moving forward it has nothing to do with what degree you have or how smart you are, we may not like it but that is a fact. So if nurses get pushed to the front of the queue because America needs then that is what the system is supposed to do. so in this case I think the system is working. .
I agree with the above.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 10:59 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NolaIndian32 View Post
Goguy123,

One Nurse can care for between 2 to 6 inpatients. Nursing care is round the clock, minute by minute. One MD can have a huge case load, well higher than just 6 patients. With increasing medical services offered due to advancing technology, there are a lot more surgeries and medical admissions today than there were 10 years ago, all of this increases patient volumes, and the final impact is an increased demand for RNs to provide round the clock nursing care for inpatients.
NolaIndian32...one same nurse is not there around the clock.

unlike the computer science area (because of H1B) there is a culture of unpaid overtime. Nurses get over time rate (1.5 times) ....they shouldnt be complaining of long hours when they are paid over time.

By the way ..i have a relative as surgeon...and i was talking to him.
nowadays due to insurance industry pressure doctors are forced to release
very quickly after operation leading to lesser post operative care.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 11:18 PM
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Default nurses run hospitals

All hospitals in the US depend on nurses for their day to day operations. With an ageing population there is additional pressure on hospitals and a corresponding demand for nurses in the US. Also nurses run long term care facilities which I suppose are growing rapidly in the US. I would therefore suppose that hospitals lobby for getting more nurses from abroad. Note that the shortage of nurses has happened despite the fact that nursing schools have waiting lists. Despite our perception that folks running the US government donot see the picture they actually do get it. Acute nursing shortage will hurt their constituents directly and that is why they will act with alacrity to alleviate nursing shortages.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 11:27 PM
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Default

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Originally Posted by ilikekilo View Post
Iam confused...Whats there in this for EB visas?
it was an honest question and someone gave me a red for that...oh man....
\so unfair!
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 11:39 PM
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Default err... why are you stating the obvious

Quote:
Originally Posted by go_guy123 View Post
NolaIndian32...one same nurse is not there around the clock.

unlike the computer science area (because of H1B) there is a culture of unpaid overtime. Nurses get over time rate (1.5 times) ....they shouldnt be complaining of long hours when they are paid over time.

By the way ..i have a relative as surgeon...and i was talking to him.
nowadays due to insurance industry pressure doctors are forced to release
very quickly after operation leading to lesser post operative care.
Goguy123,

You are stating the obvious.... one RN works 12 hours of the day; i already know this, i am in the healthcare industry. The RNs are not complaining of long hours, i didn't say they are. Your relative may be correct, but from the other side of the table, medical care has become a business and in order for the business to survive, costs have to be maintained in line with capital reinvestments needed (majority hospitals are not-for-profit). It is a well balanced trade off between expenses and reimbursement.

Bottom line, if the US has a shortage of RNs, they can use their immigration system to help with the shortage. Take a look at the immigration system for Australia or New Zealand; if you are a bicycle repairman you can get perm res. in New Zeland, but there is no demand for someone like me with multiple master degrees.


Having said that, I found it unfair too, that 2 RNs who I hired from India came here to the US with green cards in hand which they got within 3 years processing time. Meanwhile, I am their boss, and I have been in the US for 10 years at the time, and i didn't even have a labor cert approved back then.

Was I jealous? Absolutely, but did i think the system was unfair by putting RNs ahead of me - NO. Thats the immigration system of this country being used to benefit the country (and make my job easier by not having to justify contract labor).
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 11:40 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waitnwatch View Post
All hospitals in the US depend on nurses for their day to day operations. With an ageing population there is additional pressure on hospitals and a corresponding demand for nurses in the US. Also nurses run long term care facilities which I suppose are growing rapidly in the US. I would therefore suppose that hospitals lobby for getting more nurses from abroad. Note that the shortage of nurses has happened despite the fact that nursing schools have waiting lists. Despite our perception that folks running the US government donot see the picture they actually do get it. Acute nursing shortage will hurt their constituents directly and that is why they will act with alacrity to alleviate nursing shortages.
I do agree that everyone needs doctors and nurses in sometime their lifetime and their work is no less valuable. But only hospitals staff nurses. All the companies need s/w engineers. Also a lot of companies, as someone else said, make s/w engineers work a lot of overtime without paying a dime extra. S/w engineering is also a profession where you are required to upgrade your skill constantly. So if you are on H1 stuck in the same position to get your GC, how much opportunity do you have to upgrade skills? Also for some people have waiting period of 8 years before they get GC. Their employer will use them like indentured servants, you know the guy doesnt want to find out after 6 years of overtime and crap that a nurse is required more and HIS visa will go to the nurse. I dont mind need based immigration but to me reducing a number of the guy who is already in queue does not make sense. If there is real shortage of nurses, then they could have legislated a separate quota in addition to 140K. Also if nurses are being given priority based on existing number, then based on their skill why cant they be given work visas like H1/L1 and then made to wait in the queue?

I mean I get the argument that nurses are required. My question is why cant they wait in queue like everyone else?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 11:44 PM
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Default

ilikeliko and sunnyindian, thanks for your greens.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 12:00 AM
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Default overtime hours

Quote:
Originally Posted by go_guy123 View Post
NolaIndian32...one same nurse is not there around the clock.

unlike the computer science area (because of H1B) there is a culture of unpaid overtime. Nurses get over time rate (1.5 times) ....they shouldnt be complaining of long hours when they are paid over time.

By the way ..i have a relative as surgeon...and i was talking to him.
nowadays due to insurance industry pressure doctors are forced to release
very quickly after operation leading to lesser post operative care.
Now we are taking this discussion to the salaried versus hourly. If you are salaried, you are not going to get overtime, but you have the benefits of being salaried - for instance, i can take a half day to sit at home with a contractor and i still get paid for the whole day. Moreover based upon LA labor laws, i only have to show up to work for 1 hr of the 8 hr day, and by law i get paid for the whole day. An hourly employee cannot leave work unless it is a major emergency, esp when you might be taking care of an ICU patient on multiple drips, attached to a balloon pump.

I think we each picked our current jobs/industries because of what we are good at, where our practical and educational skills lead us to. So if the nature of your profession is such that you have to stay late every evening, then that is the slice of the pie you cut....change professions if you don't like your work situation.

I think I have presented more than enough about RNs and overtime hours. Are we getting off course from the original intent of this thread... (NolaIndian returns to Team IV thread)
__________________
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Case Approved 9/1/09, Rec'd Card 9/14/09
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In the U.S. since 1994
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 12:27 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NolaIndian32 View Post
Now we are taking this discussion to the salaried versus hourly. If you are salaried, you are not going to get overtime, but you have the benefits of being salaried - for instance, i can take a half day to sit at home with a contractor and i still get paid for the whole day. Moreover based upon LA labor laws, i only have to show up to work for 1 hr of the 8 hr day, and by law i get paid for the whole day. An hourly employee cannot leave work unless it is a major emergency, esp when you might be taking care of an ICU patient on multiple drips, attached to a balloon pump.

I think we each picked our current jobs/industries because of what we are good at, where our practical and educational skills lead us to. So if the nature of your profession is such that you have to stay late every evening, then that is the slice of the pie you cut....change professions if you don't like your work situation.

I think I have presented more than enough about RNs and overtime hours. Are we getting off course from the original intent of this thread... (NolaIndian returns to Team IV thread)
Essence of the argument is still the same. Nurses getting faster greencard with this bill. How much is it really required vs how does it impact the other professionals needing greencard. And how about physiotherapists? Why do they need GCs as fast as nurses? Now dont tell me there are too many people with broken bones and no one wants to take care of them

Not every nurse is attending ICU patient. Again, given that everyone is putting in lot of hours and no ones work is no less noble. Why cant they have work visas for nurses and why cant they stand in queue like everyone else?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 02:07 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kshitijnt View Post
Essence of the argument is still the same. Nurses getting faster greencard with this bill. How much is it really required vs how does it impact the other professionals needing greencard. And how about physiotherapists? Why do they need GCs as fast as nurses? Now dont tell me there are too many people with broken bones and no one wants to take care of them

Not every nurse is attending ICU patient. Again, given that everyone is putting in lot of hours and no ones work is no less noble. Why cant they have work visas for nurses and why cant they stand in queue like everyone else?
They reason is that H1B was kind of designed for engineers/software folks in 1990. i was never designed. I dont know the exactky wordings but there
are some wordings in the h1b law that prevents nurses to be hired on h1b

had that been allowed the industry would never have lobbied for eb visa for nurses as h1b woudl have gotten them even more cheaper and loyal
nurses who cant change employers.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 03:59 AM
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Hey guys, if you read the original post, you will see that this bill is not at all about re-capturing wasted visas for nurses, its about removing visa caps for nurses. That's good news for everybody, as that would mean if the visa recapture bill ever passes, nothing would be deducted from it for the nurses as it was bound to happen otherwise. So better to support this bill that start a debate on who is more important than whom.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 10:17 AM
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Default

As mentioned by NOLA, let us stop this argument and focus on what can be done to recapture the lost visas.

Bottomline is software engineers can be outsourced, but nurses cannot be. If they can outsource nursing job or can get H1B for them no body will push for the EB visas for them
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 11:04 AM
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I don't understand what the debate is about. Nurse got a head start because they had better lobby to make members of congress think they are more important. Does it matter whether SW job is truly more important than a nurse job? I don't think so. The only thing matters is the importance perceived by legislators. You can argue here all day but that won't do anything good to help our cause.
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