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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 10:26 PM
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Default Why can't we take action against some employers

We do see such threads on the forum occasionally where the employee is being cheated/asked to sign a contract/is not being paid on bench/employer is threatening etc etc... There are several instances where members have posted negative comments about consulting companies and how employees are unhappy working for them.

Is this really true?

I want to understand the reasons why people are not filing lawsuits against such companies yet? Why are we not reporting them to DOL and USCIS? Especially after filing I485 and expiry of 6 months, people are in a better position to file lawsuits against such employers.

IV can help only if people are willing to be helped and ready to take action.

If this system needs to be cleansed, then why aren't we doing it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EB3_SEP04 View Post
Let me tell you one thing, "You've got guts, buddy", Congrats on the bold move. not many people dare to do that.

Can he do so? - Theoratically yes, practically: highly unlikely.
if he is a typical consulting guy with less than 50 emps, he won't do it, because such employers almost always make "adjustments" that puts them in extremely weak spot during such law suits. here are some examples:
- a guy was laid off, his new employer sent him on a project even before filing for his H1 transfer
-many consulting companies do not pay salary while the guy is on "bench"
- they many times knowingly/unknowingly commit tax/accounting fraud or regulatory mistakes that can cause serius consequences

- a friend of mine was interrviewed by a client and when the result was positive, his new would be employer called him at a McDonalds and asked him to sign the contract right there (within 30 minute of meeting), and my friend did. Now most people won't see anything wrong in here. but a lawyer told me that my friend was not given enough time to read/understand a legal document and to talk to a lawyer ideally enough time is about 2 weeks. How many small consulting companies give 2 weeks when the interview at client is clear?

In your case, the end client is not your employer's client. Ask him to show the contract between him and the end client.

bottom line of the story is: there are many defenses that one can play and win the case and/or even put the employer in trouble. That's why most small employers don't do much beyond sending a lawyer's notice (just to scare you enough to write down a check). A real nasty guy can even go one step further and file a law suit only to withdraw it later if you decide to fiight it.

Good luck buddy!

Last edited by pappu; 07-01-2008 at 10:38 PM.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 10:54 PM
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Default Why can't we...

It is sad to say the thread started by one of the senior member on similar lines was closed abruptly for discussion.I know IV's main intension is to help on immigration front but it won't be too different to help other immigrant brothers trapped in situations like this.

Are there any reservations on voicing opinios about this?

gc_freedom
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 11:33 PM
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Default Let us list out the reasons

Let us list our the reasons for not complaining

If you are on a H1B

- Employer is withholding pay for 4-8 pay periods and leaving the employer would lead to losing the money
- DOL and USCIS will not be able to recover all the money the employer owes per the employment agreement even if it reported. They might only recover the $$ mentioned on LCA
- Employer does not run paychecks periodically so it might be hard to find Jobs and do a sucessful transfer of H1B visa and start the Greencard process all over again

I485 filed cases

- Employer withholds documentation and/or does not share documentation related to Labor/140 etc to be able to utilize AC21
- The Job description that was communicated to the employee while filing the Labor does not match the employee's field of work and the employee has not reviewed the LC prior to signing

Anything else?
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 11:38 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gc_freedom View Post
It is sad to say the thread started by one of the senior member on similar lines was closed abruptly for discussion.I know IV's main intension is to help on immigration front but it won't be too different to help other immigrant brothers trapped in situations like this.

Are there any reservations on voicing opinios about this?

gc_freedom
No thread was closed. I just started a new thread with a post from another thread.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008, 11:45 PM
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Default

I can think of following reasons in the order of relevence :

- We've got highest level of tolerence in the world as individuals and as society (probably that's why british could rule for 150 years ) and please don't shoot me, i'm not saying it's bad. just a fact.

- Feeling of insecurity because of being in a foreigner country or because of not being a part of majority.

- lack of knowledge of our rights/duties which sometimes causes guilty feeling when you think "I'm objecting to something that i agreed to whole heartedly, yesterday".

- going to court/authorities is considered bad in many culstures (as a famous Marathi saying goes "a wise man should not climb court's door-stpes ")

- "I don't have time", "I don't wan't the hassle" or "Jaane do" attitude.

- Is there anyone who still thinks along the lines of "maine aapka namak khaaya hai.." ? i don't think so.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 12:05 AM
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Default

I would like to share my experience and it may help some people here.
My H1 was sponsored by company A when I was working with them on OPT. I paid $3000 for H1 filing and attorney fees and company A gave me the H1 approval notice only after I signed an agreement that I would work for atleast one year with them.
Afetr 1 month of my H1 approval, I got a better job offer from company B and I got the H1 transferred. I notified my client and company A who threatened to revoke my H1, take me to court etc etc. They also withheld 4 weeks of my pay.
After joining company B, I filed a complaint against company A with DOL that they withheld my salary and also they demanded H1 fees from me. After 2 weeks of that complaint, my salary was deposited into my account and DOL was looking into my complaint about H1 fees. This case finally got resolved last week after about 18 months, when DOL finally persuaded company A to pay $3000 back to me.
I would request everyone who is a victim of these blood sucking employers to
take every possible action against them. There's a very little chance that they would go to court because they are themselves involved in gross irregularities.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 12:16 AM
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Default Right from horse's mouth

As IV is willing to help those having issues with employers by providing a platform and interfacing with DOS, USCIS, DOL, Media, lawyers and support in any form - nothing stops people from standing up for themselves and report an abusive employer.
If your causes are genuine, please do not be afraid to stand up for yourselves, IV is there to support you
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 02:53 AM
ras ras is offline
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Default couple more reasons

following few more reasons may be added.

- When a new employee arrives his/her knowledge of immigration matters is quite less and doesn't intend to take risks of going against the employers wishes. This is being exploited by many employers by way of threatening to cancel H1, intimidating that they will have to return back, instilling fear in all ways and means in the employees about the negative aspects. This leads the employee to think and step back in going against the employer.

Soln : Better educate the new employee about his rights as soon as he arrives. This could be either through forums, websites or even an official supplement from USCIS which should be handed over to the employee when his H1 is approved. ( It could mention and clear all myths officially by USCIS). This instills courage in the employee to question the employer if not go ahead with law suits. Also, this even may reduce threatening by the employer.

- Further most of the employees want their career slate to be clean without any law suit, dots, etc until their life is secured by way of GC approvals or some form of assurance from the Govt. This makes them step back on taking action against the employer.

Soln: Well if there could be a system where anonymous complaints/whistle blowers are allowed, they probably may come out. However, rarely employee wants to reveal his identity though he suffers.

- The immigration matters are so complicated with so many RFE's people are scared to add another their event to their history. Any transaction with USCIS is kind of a risky feel for the employee.

Soln: This feeling should be removed.

- immigration decisions are uncertain so people want to be cautious in taking bold steps.
Soln : There should be assurance from USCIS that provided everything on the candidates side is good that his GC will be approved. If an employee believes that based on his/her good credentials in all respects they should assured be of a GC, they may come forward to fight against the erring employers


Soln: How do we make employee believe if everything is right on their part, an appropriate decision will be taken by USCIS. People still dont have confidence in USCIS decision making process.

- And for GC applicants, they fear anything against the employer would affect their GC process. At every stage (Labor, I 140 and I 485 ) they are being exploited in one or the other way. Always it the employee who is at the loosing end. I have never seen an empoyer loosing because of an employee...
These are some of the thoughts...

Last edited by ras; 07-02-2008 at 02:58 AM.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 03:01 AM
ras ras is offline
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Default how

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanduv23 View Post
As IV is willing to help those having issues with employers by providing a platform and interfacing with DOS, USCIS, DOL, Media, lawyers and support in any form - nothing stops people from standing up for themselves and report an abusive employer.
If your causes are genuine, please do not be afraid to stand up for yourselves, IV is there to support you
If IV can outline how it is going to help, that would really make many people come out of the shelves. However, though we talk so much, people are still scared to identify themselves against the employer. However, they may be ready to outline everything against the specific employer as an anonymous person. we got to deal with a situation where people are ready but anonymously. How can we handle this.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 03:07 AM
ras ras is offline
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Default

This is one of the important threads. It's really time to cleanse the system and imbibe faith in the employer/employee relationship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pappu View Post
We do see such threads on the forum occasionally where the employee is being cheated/asked to sign a contract/is not being paid on bench/employer is threatening etc etc... There are several instances where members have posted negative comments about consulting companies and how employees are unhappy working for them.

Is this really true?

I want to understand the reasons why people are not filing lawsuits against such companies yet? Why are we not reporting them to DOL and USCIS? Especially after filing I485 and expiry of 6 months, people are in a better position to file lawsuits against such employers.

IV can help only if people are willing to be helped and ready to take action.

If this system needs to be cleansed, then why aren't we doing it?
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 03:12 AM
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Default IV is all of us in here

Hopefully someone from all the complainants in this forum will spearhead this initiative and hopefully there will be people out there that will stand up for themselves and join this pool

Quote:
Originally Posted by ras View Post
If IV can outline how it is going to help, that would really make many people come out of the shelves. However, though we talk so much, people are still scared to identify themselves against the employer. However, they may be ready to outline everything against the specific employer as an anonymous person. we got to deal with a situation where people are ready but anonymously. How can we handle this.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 09:22 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ras View Post
If IV can outline how it is going to help, that would really make many people come out of the shelves. However, though we talk so much, people are still scared to identify themselves against the employer. However, they may be ready to outline everything against the specific employer as an anonymous person. we got to deal with a situation where people are ready but anonymously. How can we handle this.
A problem very similar to marriage breakups. People do not want to deal with the aftermaths of a breakup but willing to put up with crap from spouse.

GC being tied to employer has created all this situation.

If people are coming forward to complain - IV can help interace with auhorities, media etc..... COntact IV with specific issues.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 09:53 AM
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Default I am going to

leave my indian employer soon. they are saying they have 90 days notice period.... which was set from india. I work in ohio which has "employment at will" law... I am not going to serve the full notice period..... but if they deduct any money..... I am going fight like hell.... planning to complain to DOL and state govt office......I will keep updated on what happens....
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 10:17 AM
NKR NKR is offline
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Default

Some of the reasons I can think of…

Employers will be right in the eyes of the law since there will be an agreement signed by both parties, the law does not care if the agreement was signed under duress, under mild threat or when the employee was ignorant.

Employer is legally bound to pay only what is in the LCA, that amount will be way less than what you get by pay rise, percentage or whatever. So when the employee leaves the employer could keep majority of the share and give only what is mentioned in LCA.

Good employers treat both their current employees as well as old employees equally and that is how they grow, but bad employers don’t. They do not want the employee to leave when they do not have a GC yet, so they will try all the tricks in the book (perfectly legal but highly unethical and totally unprofessional) to keep him saying that if an RFE shows up, they might not be able to respond in time if they are not with them.

They do not find projects, but since the employee is on their payroll, he will find a job himself to remain in status. Here too the employer has not broken any law.

In all of the above instances do you have a case to sue the employer?. No, even if you do have a case do you sue them?. No, cause you need them and then history repeats….
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 10:45 AM
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gcformeornot will become famous soon enough
Default here are some more

reasons...

I have seen many of my friends doing H1 for their spouses..... while their spouces have no experience what so ever..... employers help them cook their resumes..... in these cases employee has something to hide.... so they pay
H1 fees, stay on bench for few months......and never complain...

Now a days many companies send people on L1 visa. On L1 you have no choice. If you can't get H1 in April you are slave to the employer.... also with L1 there is no stipulated salary like H1.... so employers pay whatever they feel like and not market rate.....but since many employees have desire to stick around in US and save some Green... pay of their debts in home country.... they stay with same employer without complaining......
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