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-   -   Revoke subsituted labors campaign (https://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/23049-revoke-subsituted-labors-campaign.html)

dionysus 01-10-2009 03:59 PM

Revoke subsituted labors campaign
 
I have an idea. How about campaigning to get all, or part of the labor substitutions done in July/August 2007 revoked? As most of us know, the dates were suddenly made current in July 2007 visa bulletin. Since labor substitution was legal at that point, lots of people jumped queues and filed their GC in that month by buying a labor and applying 140 + 485 concurrently. These guys did not have to wait in the GC queue for even a single day. By going the route of substitute-labor+140+485 filing on the same day, they actually jumped the queue and stood ahead of genuine GC seekers waiting in the line for years.

We can ask CIS to review all the substituted labors filed in that time frame and determine if there was any money transaction involved. Also, CIS must check if the applicant is still with the company who sold them pre-approved labor. If the money transaction was involved and the applicant has moved away from the seller company, than obviously it is a case of immigration fraud. By weeding out such people from the GC queue, CIS can open up the choked pipe and make the queue move again.

What do other people have to say on this?

hopefulgc 01-10-2009 04:58 PM

I support this campaign.
Substitutions might have been legal.. but people should be penalized if there was an intent of immigration fraud.





Quote:

Originally Posted by dionysus (Post 309940)
I have an idea. How about campaigning to get all, or part of the labor substitutions done in July/August 2007 revoked? As most of us know, the dates were suddenly made current in July 2007 visa bulletin. Since labor substitution was legal at that point, lots of people jumped queues and filed their GC in that month by buying a labor and applying 140 + 485 concurrently. These guys did not have to wait in the GC queue for even a single day. By going the route of substitute-labor+140+485 filing on the same day, they actually jumped the queue and stood ahead of genuine GC seekers waiting in the line for years.

We can ask CIS to review all the substituted labors filed in that time frame and determine if there was any money transaction involved. Also, CIS must check if the applicant is still with the company who sold them pre-approved labor. If the money transaction was involved and the applicant has moved away from the seller company, than obviously it is a case of immigration fraud. By weeding out such people from the GC queue, CIS can open up the choked pipe and make the queue move again.

What do other people have to say on this?


go_guy123 01-10-2009 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopefulgc (Post 309945)
I support this campaign.
Substitutions might have been legal.. but people should be penalized if there was an intent of immigration fraud.

This cant be sold. Then what cut off date should be used june, may, april ....

sathweb 01-10-2009 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dionysus (Post 309940)
I have an idea. How about campaigning to get all, or part of the labor substitutions done in July/August 2007 revoked? ...

Let us all think for a second. Say USCIS audits all cases and finds 10K of them are fraud, I really doubt that there will be that many.

Now do you think your problem is solved?

Here is the catch:

1. How much time USCIS would have spent auditing all those cases. The net result: more delays and more pain for every one.

2. Most of them who got revoked are going to appeal. Again more delays and more pain for everyone.

3. Already the opponents of immigration bills have lot of weapons, this will be a big ammo to their list.

4. When USCIS revokes I-140s, some of those companies will be blacklisted. Those innocents who work in those companies will get denials. More pain.


USCIS has been not issuing at least 10k Green cards that were available under quota. If you want to fight, the fight you should be fighting for is to utilize all Green cards available under quota.

If you really want to fight, you should be fighting for equality. All men/women and all countries are equal.


Labor Substitution is past, its over, just move on. You are trying to fight the battle that you already won. Misuse of substution is the reason why USCIS banned the substitution. What do you want now?

If you want to prevent fraud, I am all for that, lets ask USCIS to check all cases thoroughly before approving.

Again, if they check thoroughly, there is a possibility that 90% of us don't get our green card.

dionysus 01-10-2009 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sathweb (Post 309957)
Let us all think for a second. Say USCIS audits all cases and finds 10K of them are fraud, I really doubt that there will be that many.

And I believe the number will turn out to be much higher. As far as I know, and I have too many acquaintances working in desi consulting companies so I know quite well, that almost half of the labor substitutions done in that month were frauds. These guys were selling labors at discounted prices because the deadline to ban substitutions was fast approaching. It was a real bhaji-mandi (vegetable market) in those days.

The very fact that dates have gotten severely retrogressed is because so many 485 applications were filed along with a substitute labor. Before this fiasco the dates were slowly but steadily moving forward. This itself proves that the number of substituted labors is much higher than you think.


Quote:

Originally Posted by sathweb (Post 309957)
1. How much time USCIS would have spent auditing all those cases. The net result: more delays and more pain for every one.

2. Most of them who got revoked are going to appeal. Again more delays and more pain for everyone.


I don't think delays are being caused in the processing of applications. Delays are occurring because CIS simply does not have visa numbers to distribute. So many applications are being pre-adjudicated and approved in advance, but they are waiting in the queue to be officially given a GC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sathweb (Post 309957)
3. Already the opponents of immigration bills have lot of weapons, this will be a big ammo to their list.

Even if it does, what's wrong in that? What's wrong in weeding out fraudsters from the genuine hard working folks? At least it will make CIS to sit up and take notice of the fraud being perpetuated by unethical companies.



Quote:

Originally Posted by sathweb (Post 309957)
Labor Substitution is past, its over, just move on. You are trying to fight the battle that you already won. Misuse of substution is the reason why USCIS banned the substitution. What do you want now?

The battle was not won, it was lost! Labor substitutions were banned when there were no more pre-approved labors left to be substituted! Remember, the dates were full "C" in July 2007 window. Any labor, with any priority date, was available on sale. Do you think any labor went unsold?


Quote:

Originally Posted by sathweb (Post 309957)
Again, if they check thoroughly, there is a possibility that 90% of us don't get our green card.

Really! For one, I have nothing to hide. CIS can audit all my applications as much as it wants. And I am sure most GC applicants fall in my category rather than in the category of frauds. You underestimate the honest guys.

langagadu 01-10-2009 07:22 PM

How about asking USCIS not to approve H1-Bs for any one from India?So that we can prevent everybody else not stay in America other than who already filed for 485? It sounds like fun, doesn't it. Don't you guys have better things to do?
Read what sathweb wrote, put ice on the head and think.

dionysus 01-10-2009 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go_guy123 (Post 309952)
This cant be sold. Then what cut off date should be used june, may, april ....

There is no need for any cut off date. Only July 2007 substitutions had a high likelihood of fraud. Remember, the dates were full "C" in that month. So people had the incentive to buy a labor, because any pre-appoved labor was a current priority date labor. Before that, even if substitutions were legal, they were (mostly) being used in a genuine manner. After all, who would buy a labor with stuck-in-the-retrogression pd. So most of the labor substitutions of the earlier months were intra-company substitutions. Like a company using the labor of an ex employee for another employee. There is nothing wrong in such substitutions.

Remember, I am not pitching to revoke all labor substitutions. Only the labors in which a non employee bought the labor of an all together unrelated company. These are the folks who must be made to account.

masaternyc 01-10-2009 07:35 PM

revoke substitue labors/fraud labor certification
 
these so called software consultants doing black dhanda should be banned for substitute/fraud labor they should be fully investigated for fraud

gc28262 01-10-2009 07:52 PM

USCIS never had enough visa numbers to make everything current
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dionysus (Post 309940)
I have an idea. How about campaigning to get all, or part of the labor substitutions done in July/August 2007 revoked? As most of us know, the dates were suddenly made current in July 2007 visa bulletin. Since labor substitution was legal at that point, lots of people jumped queues and filed their GC in that month by buying a labor and applying 140 + 485 concurrently. These guys did not have to wait in the GC queue for even a single day. By going the route of substitute-labor+140+485 filing on the same day, they actually jumped the queue and stood ahead of genuine GC seekers waiting in the line for years.

We can ask CIS to review all the substituted labors filed in that time frame and determine if there was any money transaction involved. Also, CIS must check if the applicant is still with the company who sold them pre-approved labor. If the money transaction was involved and the applicant has moved away from the seller company, than obviously it is a case of immigration fraud. By weeding out such people from the GC queue, CIS can open up the choked pipe and make the queue move again.

What do other people have to say on this?


Many IV members have a misunderstanding that USCIS had lot of visa numbers to make everything current during July fiasco.

If USCIS had enough visa numbers, then why would they make it all unavailable on July deadline and thus leading to the infamous July Fiasco ?

Make everything current in July 2007 had something to do with the CIR bill that was being discussed in Senate/Congress.

USCIS never had enough visa numbers, and will never have unless some Immigration bill is passed.

Please wake up !

CADude 01-10-2009 08:46 PM

:D:D:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by langagadu (Post 309965)
How about asking USCIS not to approve H1-Bs for any one from India?So that we can prevent everybody else not stay in America other than who already filed for 485? It sounds like fun, doesn't it. Don't you guys have better things to do?
Read what sathweb wrote, put ice on the head and think.


hopefulgc 01-10-2009 09:08 PM

Excellent answers by dionysus.

The number of fraudulent labor subs made in july will make ur head spin. This is a great initiative.

Lets get it on.

xyzgc 01-10-2009 09:09 PM

you guys are outta your friggin minds :D. You think anyone's going to listen to all this hogwash. I can't believe folks can come up something as lousy as this. And then folks complain non-immigration related threads are getting more importance. No wonder. We've had folks suggest meeting Michelle Obama to pour our sorry tale of woes, Gandhigiri Part 2 (god I hate that word, its an insult to Gandhi who's idealogy I could never believe in but I still hate insulting him) and what not, some folks seriously believed we could get ourselves heard in the lame duck session of the congress but this beats everything hands down! Ridiculous! Much as I have hated the labor sub, its beyond belief that you think USCIS is some court of justice where you can file your useless lawsuits.

xyzgc 01-10-2009 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by langagadu (Post 309965)
How about asking USCIS not to approve H1-Bs for any one from India?So that we can prevent everybody else not stay in America other than who already filed for 485? It sounds like fun, doesn't it. Don't you guys have better things to do?
Read what sathweb wrote, put ice on the head and think.

People are so desperate, they have left their heads behind in India, when they made the last trip home in Dec. But I blame the USCIS more than us though. They have made us, Indians, very desperate and we have lost our minds, its the USCIS fault.

masaternyc 01-10-2009 09:29 PM

xyzgc
 
did u buy a labor substitution??? u left a great country and jumping the line for leaving the country???

langagadu 01-10-2009 10:10 PM

So what's your f**k'n point?


Quote:

Originally Posted by masaternyc (Post 309982)
did u buy a labor substitution??? u left a great country and jumping the line for leaving the country???



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